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Around the NHL 2016-2017

LeafGm said:
I hear there's a sale at the local JC Penny's that day, and a couple of local bingo halls have doubled the value of the Swiss Chalet gift cards they're giving away as prizes, so understandably Sens fans will have other things to do that night, and there will probably be a ton of empty seats in the building as a result.

So you can probably just roll up to the box office at game time and grab tickets.
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Seriously? I thought Leafs - Sens games are usually sold out

(not the other games I know ... I got tickets to a Kings - Sens game last season for $15 a pop ... less than a movie ticket!!!)
 
MindzEye said:
Legit question. Would bozak be their #1 centre?
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Probably. Danault's a better defensive player, and he had OK numbers last year, but even if he can repeat them, Bozak gets the edge as a significantly better offensive player IMO.

The wild card in this discussion is whether Drouin and/or Galchenyuk can capably play the position at the NHL level, but thus far, there's no evidence that either of them can.
 
number17 said:
Seriously? I thought Leafs - Sens games are usually sold out

(not the other games I know ... I got tickets to a Kings - Sens game last season for $15 a pop ... less than a movie ticket!!!)
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I'm pretty sure that Ottawa's home opener against the Leafs last season didn't sell out.

Not to mention that this is a team that repeatedly failed to sell out playoff games, including game six of the Eastern conference final.
 
leafman101 said:
1. Matthews

2. Marner
3. Nylander

4. Drouin

5. Galchenyk

6. Kapanen

7. Brown/Danault/Gallagher

10. Lehkonen/Hyman
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Gallagher should definitely be higher than Kapanen, given that he's played more than a handful of NHL games already. Kapanen might pass him in time, but for now you have to give it to the guy in the show (although obviously if Gallagher can't get past this 40-ish point player that he's been, that lowers his value).

And I do think you could make an argument that Drouin and/or Galchenyuk may be better than Nylander and/or Marner. I think there's a very solid chance that either or both may out-produce your guys next year or over the next few years. Of course, your guys are younger, and obviously cheaper right now, but in terms of pure talent, I think it might be very close between all 4 of them.

But Matthews is obviously a step above them all. Even if you give that Marner+Nylander=Galchenyuk+Drouin, and that Gallagher is a step above Kapanen, it's just full moron to try to claim that the Habs young crew is better than the Leafs.
 
Nylander and Marner had better seasons as 19/20 year old rookies than Drouin and Galchenyuk ever have.

I don't think it would be fair to not rank Nylander and Marner ahead.

IMO, purely talentwise, you can't put Galchenyuk in the same tier as the other 3. At no point in his career, at any level, has he been in the same elite production range as the other guys. He's much closer to a Kadri than the stars. Drouin's skill isn't far off, but at the same age it wasn't even close.
 
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UWHabs said:
Gallagher should definitely be higher than Kapanen, given that he's played more than a handful of NHL games already. Kapanen might pass him in time, but for now you have to give it to the guy in the show (although obviously if Gallagher can't get past this 40-ish point player that he's been, that lowers his value).

And I do think you could make an argument that Drouin and/or Galchenyuk may be better than Nylander and/or Marner. I think there's a very solid chance that either or both may out-produce your guys next year or over the next few years. Of course, your guys are younger, and obviously cheaper right now, but in terms of pure talent, I think it might be very close between all 4 of them.

But Matthews is obviously a step above them all. Even if you give that Marner+Nylander=Galchenyuk+Drouin, and that Gallagher is a step above Kapanen, it's just full moron to try to claim that the Habs young crew is better than the Leafs.
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There isn't really any legitimate argument in favour of Drouin, when comparing him to Marner & Nylander at this point.

Last year, at 21 years of age, Drouin had what is thus far his breakout year in the NHL. And it still wasn't as good as the years 19 year-old Marner, and 20 year-old Nylander had in their rookie years. The same goes for Galchenyuk. He's 23 years old, and five years in his NHL career, and still hasn't matched the production Nylander & Marner put up as rookies.

I would, however, agree that ranking Kapanen ahead of Gallagher is jumping the gun. I wouldn't be surprised if Kapanen's better, but he hasn't proved it yet.
 
LeafGm said:
Probably. Danault's a better defensive player, and he had OK numbers last year, but even if he can repeat them, Bozak gets the edge as a significantly better offensive player IMO.

The wild card in this discussion is whether Drouin and/or Galchenyuk can capably play the position at the NHL level, but thus far, there's no evidence that either of them can.
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I really don't get this argument. Galchenyuk has scored at a pretty good clip while playing centre. Like a 70p pace. His coach doesn't think his defensive game is strong enough... but there are plenty of good offensive centres who are weak defensively.
 
Habspatrol said:
I really don't get this argument. Galchenyuk has scored at a pretty good clip while playing centre. Like a 70p pace. His coach doesn't think his defensive game is strong enough... but there are plenty of good offensive centres who are weak defensively.
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I don't really get it either, to be honest.

It seems to me that the thing to do with Galchenyuk is what we did with Kadri---put him at center, leave him at center and have the coaching staff work with him extensively and constructively to round out his game. Thus far though, both Therrien & Julien have been entirely unwilling to do that, and both just shuffled him over to the wing.

So for the moment, if we're talking about Montreal centers, it's kind of tough to include Galchenyuk in that conversation, as much as he should be in it.
 
LeafGm said:
I don't really get it either, to be honest.

It seems to me that the thing to do with Galchenyuk is what we did with Kadri---put him at center, leave him at center and have the coaching staff work with him extensively and constructively to round out his game. Thus far though, both Therrien & Julien have been entirely unwilling to do that, and both just shuffled him over to the wing.

So for the moment, if we're talking about Montreal centers, it's kind of tough to include Galchenyuk in that conversation, as much as he should be in it.
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I agree. Maybe Julien having a training camp to work with him will help.
 
LeafGm said:
There isn't really any legitimate argument in favour of Drouin, when comparing him to Marner & Nylander at this point.

Last year, at 21 years of age, Drouin had what is thus far his breakout year in the NHL. And it still wasn't as good as the years 19 year-old Marner, and 20 year-old Nylander had in their rookie years. The same goes for Galchenyuk. He's 23 years old, and five years in his NHL career, and still hasn't matched the production Nylander & Marner put up as rookies.

I would, however, agree that ranking Kapanen ahead of Gallagher is jumping the gun. I wouldn't be surprised if Kapanen's better, but he hasn't proved it yet.
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Well, I'd take Galchenyuk's 30 goals/56 points ahead of of the 19g/22g-61pt seasons that your rookies put up, so Galchenyuk has shown that level of talent, although obviously the fact that it took him 4 years in the league to get to that level doesn't make me feel like there's a ton of upward growth room there. But yeah, I'd agree that Drouin's breakout wasn't as strong as Nylander/Marner, but wasn't far behind.

I wasn't necessarily saying that our guys are better, more that it's far from the worst argument to be had on these boards. It certainly wouldn't shock me to see our duo put up more points than your duo this year, for example. And if it weren't for this other kid in your lineup who had a decent rookie year, I could see some good Kaberle/Markov or Wellwood/Higgins arguments coming out of the young talent on both sides.
 
UWHabs said:
Gallagher should definitely be higher than Kapanen, given that he's played more than a handful of NHL games already. Kapanen might pass him in time, but for now you have to give it to the guy in the show (although obviously if Gallagher can't get past this 40-ish point player that he's been, that lowers his value).

And I do think you could make an argument that Drouin and/or Galchenyuk may be better than Nylander and/or Marner. I think there's a very solid chance that either or both may out-produce your guys next year or over the next few years. Of course, your guys are younger, and obviously cheaper right now, but in terms of pure talent, I think it might be very close between all 4 of them.

But Matthews is obviously a step above them all. Even if you give that Marner+Nylander=Galchenyuk+Drouin, and that Gallagher is a step above Kapanen, it's just full moron to try to claim that the Habs young crew is better than the Leafs.
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What's the argument for Drouin over Nylander or Marner though? Anything statistically?
 
UWHabs said:
Well, I'd take Galchenyuk's 30 goals/56 points ahead of of the 19g/22g-61pt seasons that your rookies put up, so Galchenyuk has shown that level of talent, although obviously the fact that it took him 4 years in the league to get to that level doesn't make me feel like there's a ton of upward growth room there. But yeah, I'd agree that Drouin's breakout wasn't as strong as Nylander/Marner, but wasn't far behind.

I wasn't necessarily saying that our guys are better, more that it's far from the worst argument to be had on these boards. It certainly wouldn't shock me to see our duo put up more points than your duo this year, for example. And if it weren't for this other kid in your lineup who had a decent rookie year, I could see some good Kaberle/Markov or Wellwood/Higgins arguments coming out of the young talent on both sides.
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You'd take a 30g/56pt season from a 22 year old over a 19-22g/61pt season from a 19 and 20 year old?
 
hockeylover said:
What's the argument for Drouin over Nylander or Marner though? Anything statistically?
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Drouin was a #3 pick, so his pedigree is at least as good as your guys. His last year was virtually identical to your guys (53/73 works out to a 59.5 point pace). Again, not saying that he'll be better or anything, but he has shown some serious talent at times. 14 points in 17 playoff games is pretty sweet, too.

hockeylover said:
You'd take a 30g/56pt season from a 22 year old over a 19-22g/61pt season from a 19 and 20 year old?
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I'm saying that 30/56 is a better season than 22/61. Wasn't comparing about ages, just the notion that AG "hasn't matched the production of Nylander+Marner". Yeah, obviously I take the roughly comparable season from a kid who's 4 years younger if I have the chance, but if all their careers ended today, Galchenyuk would still have the best single season of them.
 
Career Best Seasons
1. Marner (19) - 77 gp, 19 gls, 61 pts (82 gp, 20 gls, 65 pts)
2. Nylander (20) - 81 gp, 22 gls, 61 pts (82 gp, 22 gls, 62 pts)
3. Drouin (21) - 73 gp, 21 gls, 53 pts (82 gp, 24 gls, 60 pts)
4. Galchenyk (21) - 82 gp, 30 gls, 56 pts (82 gp, 30 gls, 56 pts)

Technically it was the single worst best season of the group.
 
UWHabs said:
Drouin was a #3 pick, so his pedigree is at least as good as your guys. His last year was virtually identical to your guys (53/73 works out to a 59.5 point pace). Again, not saying that he'll be better or anything, but he has shown some serious talent at times. 14 points in 17 playoff games is pretty sweet, too.
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Why did you calculate point pace there for Drouin but not for Marner?
 
Sure Drouin marner and nylander could turn out to be similar calibre players in the end...but if you're asking to rank them now, age has to be considered. I'll take the younger guys on the bet that they can be greater than 60 point players when they reach Drouin's age. Seems like a reasonable bet to me.
 
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