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Around the League 2017-2018 Edition

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MindzEye said:
Except for Turris...who apparently Melnyk didn't want to pony up for. Do you think Duchene is going to take 6x6, or do you think he's worth that much more than Turris?



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Nah man, we're good. I'm not worried about some temporary structural and goaltending issues. Now, if we give away a pile of stuff with Jake Gardiner for a marginal upgrade on the blueline, I'll get a bit worried.
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You remember that you lost that game, right?
 
JohnnyHolmes said:
Yesterday you would say Duchene > Turris without a doubt.

And yes the 1st is lottery protected.

And Formenton was a hell of a pick. 6 days away from being ineligible for this years draft, and impressed enough to stick after camp. Yeah Gagne and Perron are 21. Hoffman was 24-25 before he started making
Noise at the NHL level. So what?

Shane Bowers is nowhere near our 4th best prospect either.

Bowers a lottery protected 1st and a 3rd. Plus dumping Hammond? That’s a steal.
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The 1st is only lottery protected for this season. If it isn't eligible this session it becomes unprotected.
 
JohnnyHolmes said:
Yesterday you would say Duchene > Turris without a doubt.
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You keep assuming anti Ottawa bias here. I tend to have a bias, but my bias is in the numbers. There's minimal statistical difference between the two.



And Formenton was a hell of a pick. 6 days away from being ineligible for this years draft, and impressed enough to stick after camp.
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Hey, he had a great camp and that's lovely. But a good 2 way centre prospect with legitimate middle 6 upside > a speedy 2 way winger with middle 6 upside.

Yeah Gagne and Perron are 21. Hoffman was 24-25 before he started makingNoise at the NHL level. So what?
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So your idea is that you're going to continue to churn out impact players who take extremely unconventional career paths and look like non prospects until they're 23-24 yrs old? Good luck with that.

With that said, Hoffman popped 20+ in the AHL as a 21 yr old...it sure looks like Gagne and Perron are well behind his already odd development path.


Shane Bowers is nowhere near our 4th best prospect either.
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18 yr old putting up a good start in NCAA hockey, recent 1st round pick with solid middle 6 upside...yeah, he is...well, was. Now he's one of Colorado's top 10 (deeper system).

Bowers a lottery protected 1st and a 3rd. Plus dumping Hammond? That’s a steal.
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Hey, dumping 325K in cap space...important stuff.

Bowers, a top 10 protected 1st and a 3rd to go from a .7-.75ppg centre with good possession impact, to a .7-.75 centre with slightly better possession impact.

Well done.
 
LeafGm said:
I didn't even realize Bowers was their 2017 first round pick. I thought he was just some throw-in prospect.

So, essentially two first round picks, a 3rd round pick and Kyle Turris...for Duchene?
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Well played Joe Sakic...
 
And keep in mind, in some case this can also be seen as less of a "paid too much for a marginal upgrade to Duchene" as a "could have used those assets to bring in someone else". So yeah, maybe Ottawa paid a bit too much for a marginal upgrade and you can excuse that, but it also means with this deal that they've used up basically some prime assets that could have been used at the deadline. So yeah, Duchene > Turris (although frankly, not by a lot), but Turris + Deadline rental > Duchene, in all likelihood. Or maybe Ottawa would have been better served to give up another prospect and just get Duchene outright, and keep Turris to have a better 1-2 punch.

Basically, Ottawa paid an awful lot to get a guy that Turris out-scored by 14 points last year, that has put up almost exactly equal production over the last 3 years (Duchene 54 point pace, Turris 56 points).
 
If Duchene turns into a 70+ player again and signs long term, this is a win for Ottawa. If Duchene continues producing at Turris like levels, or like last year...worse, or if he doesn't resign in Ottawa then this trade is a fail.

Colorado won this trade hands down. Nashville comes in second cause they got Turris resigned. It's all on Duchene returning to an elite level and Eugene Melnyk not being a cheap mother ****er and paying the dude his money.
 
Might as well run my usual numbers:

Last 2yrs plus this year:

Duchene: 167gms, ES 15:00 (A), 1.97p60, 46.7cf% (+1.5rel), 45.6xgf% (+2.1rel) / PP 2:37, 3.24p60
Turris: 146gms, ES 15:59 (A-), 1.53p60, 48.4cf% (+1.0rel), 47.4xgf% (-1.5rel) / PP 3:05, 3.82p60

Last year plys this year:

Duchene: 90gms, ES 14:32 (A-), 1.79p60, 48.4cf% (+2.1rel), 46.9xgf% (+3.4rel) / PP 2:29, 2.47p60
Turris: 89gms, ES 15:53 (B+), 1.62p60, 47.8cf% (-0.6rel), 47.4xgf% (-2.6rel) / PP 2:59, 4.77p60


Duchene does look like a nice upgrade, especially if it turns out Turris' edge on the PP is mostly karlsson-related.
 
Let’s just completely ignore that Colorado has been terrible, and had exactly one guy hit 20 goals last season, while putting up a wonderful -25.

I think Ottawa is better today.

Duchene + Brassard > Turris + Zibanejad.
 
Duchene + Zibby would have been best. Its an upgrade to Ottawa, how much remains to be seen. I don’t like how much they traded but they could still win this deal
 
I laugh at the Turris = Duchene brigade now that the trade has happened.

I wonder what the "best coach in the history of the world" Babcock would say about this...

Oh wait, we already know. Duchene has been a lock for the toughest to make Team Canada forward line up and Turris hasn't even been invited to the tryout camps.

Perhaps the "experts" here should let Babcock and the Team Canada brass know...

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I don't think anyone is disputing that Duchene is better than Turris, but by how much. It's somewhere between, barely and a tad?......certainly not enough to bridge a 1,3, former 1 gap, and if they couldn't/wouldn't pay Turris ( i call complete bullshit on Turris insisting on 7-8 with Otttawa, only to take 6 in Nashvllle) how/why should they be expected to pay Duchene who is maybe going to be in the 7 x 8 or 7 x 7 range.....

They somehow managed to pay a 1, 1, 3 to buy and sell in the same deal....
 
The 3rd was to dump Hammond.

I agree that it was an overpay, but teams in Win Now mode have to roll the dice.

I think the Sens are closer to the cup than they were yesterday and that makes me happy.

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MyNameIsJonas said:
I don't think anyone is disputing that Duchene is better than Turris, but by how much. It's somewhere between, barely and a tad?......certainly not enough to bridge a 1,3, former 1 gap, and if they couldn't/wouldn't pay Turris ( i call complete bullshit on Turris insisting on 7-8 with Otttawa, only to take 6 in Nashvllle) how/why should they be expected to pay Duchene who is maybe going to be in the 7 x 8 or 7 x 7 range.....

They somehow managed to pay a 1, 1, 3 to buy and sell in the same deal....
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If the difference is "barely and a tad", why does Duchene make every best on best squad and Turris doesn't even get a sniff for the tryout camps?

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SENSible said:
If the difference is "barely and a tad", why does Duchene make every best on best squad and Turris doesn't even get a sniff for the tryout camps?

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Duchene is better than Turris, but this is a laughable argument lol
 
Duchene being the extra forward on Team Canada 3 years ago coming off a ppg season probably isn't the most relevant argument.
 
SENSible said:
I laugh at the Turris = Duchene brigade now that the trade has happened.

I wonder what the "best coach in the history of the world" Babcock would say about this...

Oh wait, we already know. Duchene has been a lock for the toughest to make Team Canada forward line up and Turris hasn't even been invited to the tryout camps.

Perhaps the "experts" here should let Babcock and the Team Canada brass know...

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Babs also had a hard on for Weber and keeping Martin in the lineup so may He he is not always the best judgement of character

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Artnes said:
Babs also had a hard on for Weber and keeping Martin in the lineup so may He he is not always the best judgement of character

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And the rest of the Team Canada brass?

They clearly view Duchene as the much better player.

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