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number17
04-21-2015, 02:26 PM
Got tix to game 2 !! Glad at least there's some playoff hockey in Toronto!

hockeylover
04-21-2015, 05:06 PM
This happens all the time on this board and, quite frankly, it's irritating.

Someone makes an argument, as I have in this case, stating an opinion that runs contrary to that held by some of the board's most frequent posters. Often the original poster is accused of harboring a secret bias which these other posters view as narrow-minded and is forced to explain why they hold their opinion. In my case here, it's caution. The fact that we have developed the prospect to this point in the AHL with great results as winger.

The posters who fostered the original accusation either gloss over the reasoning provided with a tacit counterpoint. Or they continue to accuse the original poster of bias and pretend that anything said only supports their accusation. They then proceed to demean the original poster.

It is this level of antagonistic groupthink that often makes this board a dull place to post.

It's only zeke that accused you of any bias. I'm confused at this groupthink thing you're going on about.

I think I gave a pretty fair rebuttal in pointing out that Nylander was having one of the best seasons ever as a C in Modo.

LeafOfFaith
04-21-2015, 05:08 PM
It's always a group pile-on around these parts unless you're singing the same tune as everyone else.

Not sure how anyone can not notice that.

hockeylover
04-21-2015, 05:09 PM
Seguin started his career by being eased in and playing wing. He's a pretty good center now. I'm not worried. If he can play center, he'll play center eventually.. this won't "ruin" him or cause any destruction to his development.

I'm the one who brought this up and I simply said "Is he not at C yet? I'd like to see him tried at C next season". You'd almost think I'd said the bolded by the reaction though.

hockeylover
04-21-2015, 05:12 PM
It's always a group pile-on around these parts unless you're singing the same tune as everyone else.

Not sure how anyone can not notice that.

I suppose it could get pretty tiring if you're more often than not a person with a dissenting view from the majority but I'm not really sure what can be done to make it better?

rated
04-21-2015, 05:14 PM
It's always a group pile-on around these parts unless you're singing the same tune as everyone else.

Not sure how anyone can not notice that.

What I notice is when people make statements that are really far fetched and wrong or even ridiculous, everyone calls that individual on it.

LeafOfFaith
04-21-2015, 05:59 PM
I suppose it could get pretty tiring if you're more often than not a person with a dissenting view from the majority but I'm not really sure what can be done to make it better?

It's definitely tiring.

Take for instance my being basically the one and only person here who was not happy when Burke made the trade for Kessel back then, and got roasted for it in hundreds of posts.

I really like Kessel and all, but turned out the minority viewpoint was correct on that one in retrospect, right? And this is hardly the only example.

So I think all IW was trying to get across, and I'm trying to echo is, it's fine to have differing viewpoints, and certainly more interesting that hearing everyone say the same thing. And it would be nice (or just plain civil) to not have people piling on, name calling, and internet bullying in an effort to force their perspectives on the minority.

BKerr
04-21-2015, 05:59 PM
It's only zeke that accused you of any bias. I'm confused at this groupthink thing you're going on about.

I think I gave a pretty fair rebuttal in pointing out that Nylander was having one of the best seasons ever as a C in Modo.

The biggest difference for most kids in being a W or a C is too things.

1) The C has to be able to skate.... well we all know that skating is very good for nylander so I don't see this as being an issue.
2) The C has more defensive responsibility.

So coming to north america, there are already questions about his two way game (see Sweden's coaches comments at the WJC), and now having to adjust to smaller ice. Maybe the leafs want to ease him into that transition. Let him get a little less defensive responsibilities on the wing (while still having nearly equivalent offensive impact), and then move him to Centre down the road when he has learned some better defence.

I don't think this is a bad strategy, and I don't think it means he's permanently tied to wing just cause he's playing there now. He's still a teenager, lots of time to move. But let him get comfortable on smaller ice, with a new team, in a new league, before you start putting the defensive responsibility on him too. There's time for that down the road.

hockeylover
04-21-2015, 06:19 PM
The biggest difference for most kids in being a W or a C is too things.

1) The C has to be able to skate.... well we all know that skating is very good for nylander so I don't see this as being an issue.
2) The C has more defensive responsibility.

So coming to north america, there are already questions about his two way game (see Sweden's coaches comments at the WJC), and now having to adjust to smaller ice. Maybe the leafs want to ease him into that transition. Let him get a little less defensive responsibilities on the wing (while still having nearly equivalent offensive impact), and then move him to Centre down the road when he has learned some better defence.

I don't think this is a bad strategy, and I don't think it means he's permanently tied to wing just cause he's playing there now. He's still a teenager, lots of time to move. But let him get comfortable on smaller ice, with a new team, in a new league, before you start putting the defensive responsibility on him too. There's time for that down the road.

I started this whole discussion by saying that I'd like to see him tried at C next season. And I do think he already looks pretty comfortable.

Metalleaf
04-21-2015, 06:37 PM
We're gonna get a good look at Mantha this series.

BKerr
04-21-2015, 07:08 PM
I started this whole discussion by saying that I'd like to see him tried at C next season. And I do think he already looks pretty comfortable.

Sure, give him a chance next season.... I'm just saying starting him on the wing, and then leaving him there while he's clearly clicking this season, is the right move. We know why he started there, and its working, so if it ain't broke don't fix it. The chemistry is good right now.

Next year, things change, you can experiment then.

hockeylover
04-21-2015, 07:15 PM
Sure, give him a chance next season.... I'm just saying starting him on the wing, and then leaving him there while he's clearly clicking this season, is the right move. We know why he started there, and its working, so if it ain't broke don't fix it. The chemistry is good right now.

Next year, things change, you can experiment then.

Okay, that's what I said.

Rumpleforeskin
04-22-2015, 08:37 AM
so we all agree, everything is currently ok

rated
04-22-2015, 12:57 PM
Brown and Nylander are on leafs lunch

Metalleaf
04-22-2015, 12:58 PM
Now the media cares.

Metalleaf
04-22-2015, 01:05 PM
LOL at Leafs Lunch suggesting it took Nylander "a while" to find his way at 18....TSN's worst radio program by far.

LeafGm
04-22-2015, 04:03 PM
Interesting factoid that Nylander dropped on Leaf lunch: he currently weighs in at 189lbs.

Some pretty nice gainz in a little under a year, considering his official draft weight was 169lbs.

IrishWolfman
04-25-2015, 01:43 PM
Off to see the Marlies and Gryphons.

Will report in during intermission.

Volcanologist
04-25-2015, 01:44 PM
LOL at Leafs Lunch suggesting it took Nylander "a while" to find his way at 18....TSN's worst radio program by far.

"a while" = 6 games

Aberdeen
04-25-2015, 02:02 PM
Anyone aware of a stream?

Aberdeen
04-25-2015, 02:14 PM
nm, may have found.

IrishWolfman
04-25-2015, 02:28 PM
No Valiev or Finn in warm up, probably due to MacWilliam's return.

LeafGm
04-25-2015, 03:10 PM
26 seconds in, and McKegg makes it 1-0 Marlies off a TJ Brennan slap-shot!

Leafin'
04-25-2015, 03:30 PM
nm, may have found.

Please share.

How dumb that this isn't on Leafstv.

Aberdeen
04-25-2015, 03:31 PM
Sorry, I thought I did but they didn't work. AHL should stick some ads on there and stream for free but what do I know.

Metalleaf
04-25-2015, 03:40 PM
Game will be replayed on LeafsTV tonight.

Leafin'
04-25-2015, 03:46 PM
Not good enough. I'd watch the game live. Not a chance i watch a replay tonight.

Thats so shit though, what do i pay for? Garbage Leafstv.

IrishWolfman
04-25-2015, 03:49 PM
Good first period from Leivo and McKegg. Their line was probably our most dangerous all period.

Nylander is an improved player even from when I saw him at Xmas. More stops and starts, less looping turns in his game. He's not taking hits to make plays yet and he had a chance to do that on a couple rushes that period.

Solid periods on the back end from Loov and Percy. Two guys who do a lot of little things right.

LeafGm
04-25-2015, 03:50 PM
And they wonder why a lot of people pirate? Just offer all the games online in an easy, hassle-free platform for a monthly charge. Everybody would pay.

But this is a downside to being owned by Cable & Satellite companies.

Deckie007
04-25-2015, 03:51 PM
I'm watching the game on hockeystreams....quality isn't great but at least I'm watching.

LeafGm
04-25-2015, 03:52 PM
Good first period from Leivo and McKegg. Their line was probably our most dangerous all period.

Nylander is an improved player even from when I saw him at Xmas. More stops and starts, less looping turns in his game. He's not taking hits to make plays yet and he had a chance to do that on a couple rushes that period.

Solid periods on the back end from Loov and Percy. Two guys who do a lot of little things right.
He won a nice puck battle along the boards and behind the net to create the Marlies' last chance of the period. That was good to see.

IrishWolfman
04-25-2015, 04:39 PM
Great second period from Slick Willy. You notice a difference between Nylander and Brown when you watch them play. Nylander neeeds almost no time or space to beat you. Brown needs the space.

Another solid, solid period by both Loov and Percy. Wouldn't be surprised to see either or both stick with the big club next year

hockeylover
04-25-2015, 04:42 PM
Can you believe we get an even better player than Nylander in two months time?

Got a lot to look forward to.

Deckie007
04-25-2015, 04:50 PM
Great second period from Slick Willy. You notice a difference between Nylander and Brown when you watch them play. Nylander neeeds almost no time or space to beat you. Brown needs the space.

Another solid, solid period by both Loov and Percy. Wouldn't be surprised to see either or both stick with the big club next year

Brown has some great hands though. He made a bunch of real nice passes in the offensive zone.

IrishWolfman
04-25-2015, 07:30 PM
Impressions on the game:

Yeah, if you didn't know Nylander was 18, you wouldn't know he was 18. He and Pulkkinen were the two most consistently dangerous on the ice all game. He's learning how to make plays in traffic and like I said, no more long, looping turns.

Leivo and McKegg are playing the kind of game that could get them into the NHL. They're not showing a ton of skill, but they're working their butts off, forechecking hard and playing forcing chances.

Brendan Leipsic could be our version of Brendan Gallagher. He engenders so much hate from the opposition and does it all playing a sandpaper game. He finished checks on the Gryphons best players all night, forced Teemu Pulkkinen to take a hooking penalty on him. His release on his goal was outstanding. I'm really hoping this kid ends up playing with Komarov at some point. That'll make people hate playing the Leafs.

Brown is a very good skater and has great on-ice vision. But he needs more muscle. I've seen guys get bumped off pucks but when Brown takes a hit, he vaults about three feet off the puck. He's not ready to play bigger, more physical defensemen yet.

Stuart Percy is so smart. He seems to always make the right play with the puck. His positioning is always sound. Nothing flashy but so very steady.

Viktor Loov has much better edges than I remember. His skating in transition was great. He's got great gap control. Could turn into a minute eating defenseman.

Deckie007
04-26-2015, 03:26 PM
Bit of a rough start. Marlies have had their chances though. Hopefully they can finish the period strong

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:07 PM
Woah. Victor Loov just murdered someone.

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:09 PM
Beautiful open-ice hit, but Loov got him right in the chin with his shoulder.

Metalleaf
04-26-2015, 05:11 PM
Frk got Leivo in the chin last period...no penalty....AHL officiating is trash.

Deckie007
04-26-2015, 05:14 PM
Woah. Victor Loov just murdered someone.
Yeah dude looked like he was in bad shape coming off the ice. I think Loov gets suspended. The non call on the Leivo guy was b.s. though.

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:15 PM
Full 2 minute 5-3 for Grand Rapids. God damn.

Feyd
04-26-2015, 05:20 PM
Gibson is stopping everything.

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:20 PM
Huge PK!

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:20 PM
Gibson is stopping everything.
And the rest of the Marlies are throwing themselves in front of every shot.

Deckie007
04-26-2015, 05:20 PM
Nice kill. Got a little scrambly at the end but getting through that with no damage was awesome.

Deckie007
04-26-2015, 05:24 PM
Brennan with the pp go ahead goal!!!!

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:25 PM
Wow, what a bomb by Brennan.

Deckie007
04-26-2015, 05:28 PM
Brendan with the Leipsic dangle to nearly put the Marlies up 2

Feyd
04-26-2015, 05:30 PM
3 point game for Brennan so far. 1G 2A. Nylander with 2A and a +2 as well.

Deckie007
04-26-2015, 05:35 PM
Aaaand Brown seals it with the EN. Great win.

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:36 PM
Good hustle by Brown to get that EN goal.

Let's finish them off in game three!

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:38 PM
McKegg with another empty netter. The Marlies run a pretty clever set play with the goalie out. As soon as one Marlie gets the puck, another Marlie sprints down the ice to negate the icing.

Metalleaf
04-26-2015, 05:38 PM
Grand Rapids will regret not starting the series at home.

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:42 PM
Going back to the regular season, this was the Marlies' ninth straight victory.

Metalleaf
04-26-2015, 05:43 PM
last loss was to these very Gryphons.

Aberdeen
04-26-2015, 05:45 PM
From the sounds of the Leafs plans we should expect to have a very good Marlies team for the next few years. I hope MLSE ups it's game in terms of exposure for this team.

IrishWolfman
04-26-2015, 05:49 PM
These Marlies remind me a lot of last year's LA Kings. They're such a deep offensive team that you can't match up with them. Those midseason additions of Leipsic and Nylander have been hug in helping with that.

LeafGm
04-26-2015, 05:57 PM
These Marlies remind me a lot of last year's LA Kings. They're such a deep offensive team that you can't match up with them. Those midseason additions of Leipsic and Nylander have been hug in helping with that.
Not to mention adding TJ Brennan at the trade deadline. He's turned their power-play around.

number17
04-26-2015, 09:49 PM
I was down at Ricoh today and it was a great game. The little arena was lively and a lot louder than the 20,000 capacity ACC ... given, the Leafs haven't given the crowd much to cheer about in recent years.

Anyways, random thoughts ...

- it is true, if you don't remember Nylander was 18, you wouldn't know he's 18. His maturity on the ice was amazing. Was he head and shoulder the best player on the ice today? No. But everytime he's on the ice you take notice. Him and Brown made things happen today (though it was Frattin who scored 2) for the Marlies.

- More on Nylander. What I love about what I saw from Willy today was - he was actually using his size. He bumped people along the board to get positioning and at no point did he skate away from the dirty areas on the ice. He was most impressive when he's on PP, but he was dangerous 5 on 5 too.

- Brown is a very smart player and I love his hustle. He is not flashy by any means but evertyime he's on the ice he's making good plays - in all 3 zones

- I don't quite get why the Loov hit was a penalty, never mind a major. The GR player had the puck, he leaned forward and basically skated into a hit. Loov didn't blind side him, the call was he made contact to his head but when you are skating leading with your head, it's pretty hard to hit you without making contact to the head.

- The BIG momentum changer was the 5 on 3 kill. The Marlies did very good on that PK, but it also took some misplays by GR to make that happen cause they had a full 2 min 5 on 3

- Love how Gibson started the game a little shakey but he shut the door after the 2nd goal early in the game.

- Loov and Percy were both very good and very solid on the blueline. Definitely see a NHLer in Willy, Brown too. Frattin ... I hope he can bounce back and be a solid 3rd liner for us. HE had a huge game today. I'm on the fence with Leipsic, and Leivo has been pretty ineffective even in the AHL after being sent back down.

Great game by the Marlies. and it was a great game to watch at Ricoh too! Hope they sweep GR and get ready for round 2.

Deckie007
05-02-2015, 07:19 PM
Geez the Marlies' PP is a hot mess. Allowed a bunch of chances before GR got the SHG, including 2 or 3 odd man rushes. 1-1 in the First.

Metalleaf
05-02-2015, 07:37 PM
Their PK ain't much better.

CRL
05-03-2015, 06:32 PM
terrible showing from Marlies in game 5 so far

LeafGm
05-03-2015, 06:54 PM
There were some entertaining moments in that second period though. Bibeau made a save of the year candidate to keep it 1-1 earlier in the period. And it was fun watching Leipsic and Ryan Rupert almost instigate a line brawl at the end there.

They need more time in the Grand Rapids zone in the third though.

Deckie007
05-03-2015, 07:08 PM
Marlies all over GR, but can't score. GR forward comes down the wing, undresses Brennan and wires a wrister by Bibeau. 3-1 Griffins.

Deckie007
05-03-2015, 07:13 PM
Marlies losing their cool. Just took a boarding call while trying to kill a penalty. This might be it.

LeafGm
05-03-2015, 07:36 PM
Marlies take a penalty while down 3-1 with 47 seconds left in the third.

Looks like the Marlies have officially blown their 2-0 series lead.

BeLeafer
05-03-2015, 08:55 PM
Gotta train 'em young.

number17
05-03-2015, 09:54 PM
It is extremely sad after winning the first 2 at home, we went on to lose 3 straight and loses out in round 1 of the playoff ... I don't think anyone expected the Marlies to go deep but losing out in the 1st round, especially in this fashion, just leaves you with an empty feeling.

Toronto scored 12 goals in the first 2 games of the series but then once on the road our offense ran dry in a hurry. Special teams was a big problem. More than anything though, I felt the team was lacking in the compete level once the series moved to GR. In many ways, these are the traits of some of the root problems of the mother club.

Loov made a glaring mistake after the team tied the game 1-1 and essentially gave the game away to GR ... and the team just couldn't get back up after that mistake. Still, we had a 5 on 3 towards the end of the 2nd and couldn't generate a good scoring chance. That IMO was the turning point of the game.

Volcanologist
05-04-2015, 10:32 AM
Can't be a Toronto Team without a Toronto Collapse. every team in every major sport seems to be gagging it up lately in some fashion.

Aberdeen
05-04-2015, 12:01 PM
It's a disappointing loss, but hardly a collapse. These team killed themselves to make it into the playoffs and in the end had nothing left in the tank.

Deckie007
05-04-2015, 12:34 PM
#7 seeded team lost to the #2 and the defending champs, winning their home games and losing their road games. Grand rapids is a much better team...Probably shouldn't have been that close. Nothing really to see here.

LeafGm
05-04-2015, 01:01 PM
#7 seeded team lost to the #2 and the defending champs, winning their home games and losing their road games. Grand rapids is a much better team...Probably shouldn't have been that close. Nothing really to see here.
Yep. Plenty of teams have gone down 3-2 after winning the first two games too. It's not the collapse that going up 3-0 and losing is.

Still, it's disappointing, and Nylander & Brown weren't a huge factor in the games they lost. I suspect we'll be seeing both of them back in the AHL to start next season. Hopefully with the lineup bolstered with the likes of Freddie Gauthier, Carter Verhaeghe, Nikita Soshnikov & Andreas Johnson as well.

MindzEye
05-04-2015, 01:46 PM
Yep. Plenty of teams have gone down 3-2 after winning the first two games too. It's not the collapse that going up 3-0 and losing is.

Still, it's disappointing, and Nylander & Brown weren't a huge factor in the games they lost. I suspect we'll be seeing both of them back in the AHL to start next season. Hopefully with the lineup bolstered with the likes of Freddie Gauthier, Carter Verhaeghe, Nikita Soshnikov & Andreas Johnson as well.

I'm actually legitimately excited about the Marlies roster next season...which is kind of sad in it's own way, as I expect the Leafs to be a collection of young guys (Naz, Rielly, Gardiner, Holland, etc), veterans (Polak, Robidas, etc), bad contracts taken back to extra maximum value for our outgoing players (Weiss, Semin, etc) and plugs (like Sill). I don't think Shanabas lets any of the kids anywhere near that big league roster unless they absolutely kick the door in next year.

Metalleaf
05-04-2015, 02:10 PM
Marlies will get to the Calder Finals next season. Book it!

LeafGm
05-04-2015, 02:18 PM
Imagine if we drafted Hanifin, and sent him to the Marlies? Or if one of Strome or Marner got added to their roster late in the season or early in the playoffs? No matter what happens, it'll be one of the most interesting Marlies teams we've ever seen.

As for the NHL roster, agreed ME. It'll be the same kind of bizarre mish-mash we saw for the second half of this season. UFA bargain bin pick-ups, vets, AHL scrubs, kids, salary dumps & a malcontent or two that the Leafs tried to trade away in the summer, but couldn't find the right deal for.

mbow30
05-04-2015, 11:42 PM
ahl hockey is sloppy as ****, and the marlies easily could have won games 3 or 4 (i didn't see any of 5). some bad goals against, some good chances missed... they were right there.

nylander is a stud. he has a monster shot, can get it off quickly and from anywhere on the ice. and he's really the anti-kessel with his work ethic. he's always on the puck, uses his body well, and competes in all three zones.

brown's going to have a real hill to climb to make the nhl. he isn't slow (i'd say average foot speed) but he's a pretty mediocre skater. and he plays to initiate contact, which isn't usually a recipe for success when you're 5'10 and have average speed. he's a savvy offensive player, but he's going to have trouble with the size and pace of the nhl game.

nyalnder, though... no questions there. he's going to be good.

LeafGm
05-19-2015, 09:53 AM
Freddie the Goat is now a QMJHL champion. The Oceanic won their series against Rimouski with a 2OT goal, which Gauthier assisted on.

Now, he's off to the Memorial Cup.

Artnes
05-27-2015, 09:07 AM
Despite a losing effort its good to see the Goat lead his team in points.

1G 2A in 3GP

hockeylover
05-27-2015, 11:43 AM
32 points in 37 games during the season and 16 points in 20 games in the playoffs? Wish those numbers were higher.

number17
05-27-2015, 12:09 PM
It's hilarious I was reading an article in the Star a few days ago, and they are saying how Gauthier is the steal of a draft, and he's a big sized center who is finally 'getting it'. It's a great year for Gauthier because he's won the WJHC Gold medal, the Q league, and now has a chance to win the Memorial cup.

And I guess McDavid is officially a bust cause his team couldn't even win the OHL lol ... Gauthier had very little (if anything) to do with the WJHC gold medal (where he started as a 3C and was demoted to 4C by the time the team was in the semi final and final), he is the 10th highest scoring player on his team in the Q regular season ... not to mention he's among the oldest guys on the team, and in the high scoring Q he's no where near 1.5-2PPG which is what is expected of any prospect who would go on to make a contribution offensively in the NHL.

And, on top of all that, his QJMHL PPG stats DROPPED compared to last year for both regular season and post season.

His teams have done well, but Gauthier himself has taken a step back IMO. At this point, I'd say he has at best a 50-50 chance of becoming a good bottom 6 F in the NHL, and zero chance of becoming a top 6 NHL F.

And to call him a 'steal at draft' ... the guys taken before and after him are Mantha and Poirier. Both have already 'graduated' from the juniors and are playing in the AHL, both have also got a taste of the NHL already and are miles ahead of Gauthier. He's anything but a steal ... he's much closer to being a bust than a steal.

Aberdeen
05-27-2015, 12:10 PM
Points aside people are saying a lot of good things, coaches gush over him. He'll never be a star but I think he has a good chance to be a useful piece on a winning team.

rated
05-27-2015, 12:21 PM
Have you been watching him play in the playoffs, number17 ?

number17
05-27-2015, 12:22 PM
1 game, on Sportsnet

rated
05-27-2015, 12:22 PM
1 game, on Sportsnet

Thought so.

number17
05-27-2015, 12:47 PM
Thought so.I don't think evaluation of a player comes down to how he plays in the playoff. When a 19 year old junior player's PPG production DROPPED compared to previous year, and his peers are already in the AHL and he's not even among the leaders on the junior team, taht can't be a good thing can it?

But I am eager to hear what positives you see in Gauthier from watching him play?

leafman101
05-27-2015, 01:00 PM
Gauthier is a 20 year old in the CHL. He should look good. He probably should have looked a lot better considering his age and size if he had legit top 9 upside.

number17
05-27-2015, 01:14 PM
Gauthier is a 20 year old in the CHL. He should look good. He probably should have looked a lot better considering his age and size if he had legit top 9 upside.Ohhh but you haven't watched him play! How do you know?! (sarcasm) ;)

LeafGm
05-27-2015, 01:16 PM
The Goat is what he is at this point. There isn't really any point in paying much attention to his stats. Unless he's a huge outlier, his career in the Q has already made it crystal clear that if he makes it to the NHL, it's not going to be on the strength of his scoring ability. Hell, I'll be extremely surprised if he can even get to 0.5 PPG when he makes the jump to the AHL next season.

We just have to hope that as a player, he ends up being more comparable to Brian Boyle than he is to Tyler Biggs. Can't say that I've seen enough of him play to say which side of the ledger he falls on though. But at least we know that he's going to have some top notch guidance now that he's making the jump to the pros.

leafman101
05-27-2015, 01:19 PM
How many good 3rd line NHLers couldn't even break a ppg in the CHL as a 19/20 year old? Even purely faceoff/defensive specialists and offensive black holes like Gaustad, Brent and McClement did that.

LeafGm
05-27-2015, 01:30 PM
How many good 3rd line NHLers couldn't even break a ppg in the CHL as a 19/20 year old? Even purely faceoff/defensive specialists and offensive black holes like Gaustad, Brent and McClement did that.
I don't think we disagree---if Gauthier ever becomes a regular 3rd line center at the NHL level on any kind of halfway decent team, I'll be surprised.

His NHL upside, IMO, is as a defensive/faceoff specialist who mostly centers the 4th line at even strength. And he could just as easily never even get a sniff at the NHL. Biggs put up the same kind of numbers as Gauthier in his final CHL season, and he can't even score at all at the AHL level.

leafman101
05-27-2015, 01:41 PM
Yeah, if he wasn't a defensively responsible 6'5 center I would have probably written him off already, but he'll likely get an opportunity at the NHL level at some point given his size and defensive responsibility.

But man has he had a completely underwhelming junior career. I don't see anything to be excited about in his upside. Maybe he can be one of Burkie's "pick and shovel" men if his development goes well. One thing we do know is Shanny will have the patience to give him the chance to develop.

number17
05-27-2015, 01:47 PM
And I agree ... Gauthier is what he is. My whole point was not to bash him anymore than he already is bashed, but to laugh at Toronto media which calls him a 'steal' because of all the medals / championships his teams have won.

And I've found the article here - by Kevin McGran

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2015/05/23/maple-leafs-may-have-steal-in-rimouskis-frederik-gauthier.html

As far as I can see, Top 6 is completely out of the question. A good 3rd liner is probably impossible as well, cause as leafman said, what decent 3rd liner couldn't hit 1 PPG in junior, never mind the high scoring Q???

Which leaves a super-duper 4th liner as his career ceiling at the young age of 20 years old ... which is SAD for a former 1st round draft pick. Nevertheless, if he develops into a cheap, useful 4th liner who can contribute with ~ 10 - 12 min a game, at least the 1st round pick didn't completely go to waste.

But then again, of course, if you really think about it - a good 4th liner is a dime a dozen. There's really no point in developing your own 4th liner.

LeafGm
05-27-2015, 01:57 PM
I agree 17, except for the last part of your post. I think it is important to develop your own 4th liners. Both because it's important to have organizational depth (and players already well versed in the team's system) in case of injuries, and because you can save money by having your own low-cost young players on the 4th line instead of having to go out and give $1M+ to the Jay McClements of the world. It's not a huge amount of savings, but even saving a few hundred thousand here and there on forwards #10,11,12 & 13 can end up being pretty significant. Just ask the Kings, Penguins and Bruins.

The only problem, as has been discussed to death around here already, is spending a 1st round pick to acquire that kind of player.

Volcanologist
05-27-2015, 02:02 PM
drove me nuts to hear Nonis say "yeah, we see his upside as a 3rd liner". The only thing he ever said that pissed me off more was the "I don't care about the later years of Clarkson's deal" remark. **** you, Dave.

number17
05-27-2015, 02:33 PM
I guess my point is you don't really 'develop' your 4th liners ... 4th liners are prospects who can't make it into the top 9 ;)

LeafOfFaith
05-27-2015, 04:35 PM
I don't think we disagree---if Gauthier ever becomes a regular 3rd line center at the NHL level on any kind of halfway decent team, I'll be surprised.

His NHL upside, IMO, is as a defensive/faceoff specialist who mostly centers the 4th line at even strength. And he could just as easily never even get a sniff at the NHL. Biggs put up the same kind of numbers as Gauthier in his final CHL season, and he can't even score at all at the AHL level.

I'm actually okay with having a guy who is 6"5, amazing defensively, and plays center to anchor the fourth line and be a third line fill in.

A good, homegrown bottom 6 player, who can be a PK specialist and big checking body, and relatively cheap and under control for a long time is not a bad thing.

Sure, we shouldn't have used the 1st on him, but this could be a very useful player on a competitive team.

rated
05-27-2015, 09:44 PM
I don't think evaluation of a player comes down to how he plays in the playoff. When a 19 year old junior player's PPG production DROPPED compared to previous year, and his peers are already in the AHL and he's not even among the leaders on the junior team, taht can't be a good thing can it?

But I am eager to hear what positives you see in Gauthier from watching him play?

Just saying. You're evaluating a player you've watched play 1 game.

I understand what you're getting at though. Was it a good pick ? No. Could we of picked someone better ? Yes. Has he developed as much as we would want him to ? No.

Like I said before, the media seems to be over-rating him based on his playoff performance, which has been decent but not worthy of all the crazy praise the media is giving him, and fans like you seem to be writing him off. I think both parties are being a tad bit ridiculous. If I'm misunderstanding your point of view on him, my apologies.


which is SAD for a former 1st round draft pick.

.

Just like the Rask trade that so many people still struggle with to this day, we're just gonna have to get over it. No point repeating the same thing over and over. We're stuck with this guy and although he's not going to amount to anything close to what you'd want in a first round pick, it's nice to see he's become a big part of a team fighting for a memorial cup.

number17
05-28-2015, 08:45 AM
Just saying. You're evaluating a player you've watched play 1 game.

I understand what you're getting at though. Was it a good pick ? No. Could we of picked someone better ? Yes. Has he developed as much as we would want him to ? No.

Like I said before, the media seems to be over-rating him based on his playoff performance, which has been decent but not worthy of all the crazy praise the media is giving him, and fans like you seem to be writing him off. I think both parties are being a tad bit ridiculous. If I'm misunderstanding your point of view on him, my apologies.No, no apologies required, it's all good. :cheers2:

That's my entire point - the media is calling him a 'steal' when he's well, much closer to a bust.

It is good to see Gauthier doing 'better' cause afterall, he is our prospect. At this point, I just hope he can make it to the NHL.

LeafGm
05-28-2015, 09:56 AM
I'm actually okay with having a guy who is 6"5, amazing defensively, and plays center to anchor the fourth line and be a third line fill in.

A good, homegrown bottom 6 player, who can be a PK specialist and big checking body, and relatively cheap and under control for a long time is not a bad thing.

Sure, we shouldn't have used the 1st on him, but this could be a very useful player on a competitive team.
Yeah, hopefully the hypothetical player you're describing is what Gauthier turns into.

We're all certainly hoping he succeeds. But we'll have to be patient with him, and set aside any disappointment we may have about the fact that he was taken in the first round, and that his hoped-for offensive ability never materialized.

LeafOfFaith
05-28-2015, 10:31 AM
Win some, lose some.

Sometimes you grab a first line talent in the later rounds, sometimes you get a good bottom six guy in the early rounds.

As long as they're good players, their draft ranking ceases to be significant once they pull on the jersey. Just slot them in where they're useful.

leafman101
05-28-2015, 10:36 AM
Better chance of winning though if you are drafting guys with high upside, rather than 3rd line upside, especially in the first round.

It was a philosophical flaw that led to the bad pick, not just the dumb luck of drafting. Thats the issue. Not that in hindsight it was a bad pick, on draft day it was.

Aberdeen
05-28-2015, 10:53 AM
I do feel like he's the type of player the advanced starts (which don't exist yet) will like. Even if he never scores much.

LeafGm
05-28-2015, 11:54 AM
Win some, lose some.

Sometimes you grab a first line talent in the later rounds, sometimes you get a good bottom six guy in the early rounds.

As long as they're good players, their draft ranking ceases to be significant once they pull on the jersey. Just slot them in where they're useful.
Well, to be clear---his draft position at this point is irrelevant. He's just another Leaf prospect we all hope ends up as useful a player as possible.

But this pick wasn't a case of "win some, lose some". It was a case of our previous management saying "can't win, may as well not try". But thankfully, Nonis and most of the rest of his and Burke's guys are gone, so hopefully we'll never again hear a Leaf GM proudly say on draft day that his first round pick projects as a 3rd liner at the NHL level.

number17
05-28-2015, 12:18 PM
Yes that's exactly it. The moment someone is drafted, his draft position is irrelevant. He's just 1 of many prospects in the team's system.

But the reason we used (or, more precisely, 'blew') a 1st rounder on a guy who, at the time of the draft, they already said was going to be a "3rd liner" in the league is what kills this organization. Role players are much, much easier to find. We just signed Santo and Winnik for $1M a piece last summer, and managed to ship them out for some pretty good picks and prospects because they were good role players.

LeafOfFaith
05-28-2015, 12:32 PM
I think Gauthier could become one of those guys who could be an uber effective player in the playoffs. A guy who helps wins games for you without necessarily scoring.

I'm cool with how and where we got him. We could've just as easily picked a total bust at that spot, not exactly early in the first round.

And what I was trying to say above was that, for instance, we got Brown late in a draft, though he is looking like someone who most definitely should've gone earlier. And we got Gauthier early in the draft when he probably should've gone later (though he was ranked right around where he was picked, so it's not like we went off the board and made some wacky pick by taking him). It all evens out in the end. Every single team's roster is littered with these, so no reason to look back in anger, oasis-style.

number17
05-28-2015, 01:20 PM
the media likes to praise the 'dark horse' players as to why teams wins series ... but let's be honest, while some players may make a bigger contribution than they are expected to, teams always wins and lose series on their best players. If the Rangers go on to win the series, it's because of what Lundqvist does. If they go on to lose, it's what Nash and MSL didn't do.

Media likes to tell us how Dominic Moore or Fleischman had a great game and they do, but they never win or lose a series for you.

By the same token, Gauthier, if he develops into a solid 4th liner, can be a useful piece but even as the best PKer in the league he'll never win or lose series for you. It'll come down to the Nylander's, Kadri's, Rielly's and Marner's.

leafman101
05-28-2015, 01:54 PM
Not sure that Gauthier is out of total bust territory yet. Its not exactly like he has performed like a sure fire NHLer. He's exactly the kind of guy that gets overrated as a prospect because of size and intangibles, then never amounts to much. Just look at a guy like Patrice Cormier.

Aberdeen
05-28-2015, 01:56 PM
Gauthier is the type of player who may be able to neutralize a teams best line with defence and possession.

leafman101
05-28-2015, 01:59 PM
Gauthier is the type of player who may be able to neutralize a teams best line with defence and possession.

How many players are there in the league that can do that with very little puck skill though? I can't think of too many.

The best players in the league at that are all skilled guys now. Toews, Kopitar, Steen, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Backes, Koivu, Kesler.

number17
05-28-2015, 01:59 PM
Not sure that Gauthier is out of total bust territory yet. Its not exactly like he has performed like a sure fire NHLer. He's exactly the kind of guy that gets overrated as a prospect because of size and intangibles, then never amounts to much. Just look at a guy like Patrice Cormier.Gauthier reminds me of a less skilled, and forward version of Schenn.

Schenn was always praised for his intangibles - his leadership, his grit, his maturity, and his defense.

Look where he is now ....

LeafOfFaith
05-28-2015, 07:32 PM
Gauthier reminds me of a less skilled, and forward version of Schenn.

Schenn was always praised for his intangibles - his leadership, his grit, his maturity, and his defense.

Look where he is now ....

Why would a guy with no offensive or defensive skills remind you of Gauthier? : )

number17
05-29-2015, 08:53 AM
I watched another Memorial cup game last night (thus my total is up to 2 ... lol) and I will say this - Gauthier is indeed very good defensively. I am not sure how he'll do as a 'defensive specialist' in the NHL because despite excellent defensive senses and awareness, his speed and his skating is not exactly on par in the NHL, and if you look at the best checking centers in the league they're all excellent skaters. But at least he is a smart defensive player with excellent size and reach. I wish he can be more tenacious given his size, and be more of a physical factor.

As for Schenn, he was indeed an excellent defensive player in junior, and his biggest problem in the NHL is his footspeed. He's not 'slow', but he's definitely not fast, and if you want to be a top 4 defensive defenseman you can't be just average with speed and skating. Schenn's problem is unless he has perfect positioning on a forward, he can easily get beat because of his speed. And then against the faster F's even if he has perfect position he would still get beat. He also doesn't have the speed to cover for his own or his partner's mistake. That, combined with the fact he has a terrible shot, and his vision for outlet passes is average minus, make him a pretty limited player. He can be a good PKer, and a successful 3rd unit dman playing ~ 15 minutes a game that isn't against opponent's top line.

And my concern is, even if we completely forget Gauthier's lack of offense, his lack of speed might put him in the same situation even IF he eventually make it to the NHL.

LeafGm
05-29-2015, 09:06 AM
The plus with Gauthier is that at least we only used our own late first round pick to get him. For Schenn, we traded the 7th overall pick, plus our 2008 2nd & 3rd round picks to grab him at 5th overall. Another brilliant move by interim-GM Cliff Fletcher.

Artnes
05-29-2015, 09:10 AM
Essentially Wilson and Josi for Schenn. Good deal

LeafGm
05-29-2015, 09:41 AM
For some reason, 2nd round draft picks have been considered highly expendable by Leaf management for a long time. In six of the last ten drafts, they haven't owned their second round pick on draft day. And this year's draft will make it seven out of the last eleven drafts.

Artnes
05-29-2015, 09:50 AM
Probability of getting one this year is good if they see a guy they want in the 2nd.

Good chance they will be busy on the phones come draft day

hockeylover
05-29-2015, 10:20 AM
For some reason, 2nd round draft picks have been considered highly expendable by Leaf management for a long time. In six of the last ten drafts, they haven't owned their second round pick on draft day. And this year's draft will make it seven out of the last eleven drafts.

And when we have had seconds...

Finn
Ross
Ryan
Blacker
Hayes (traded)
Kulemin

One hit isn't enough. We've been a losing team in that decade.

hockeylover
05-29-2015, 10:23 AM
Detroit's been winning for the whole decade and here is their list:

Nastasiuk
Bertuzzi
Frk
Jurco
Ouellet
Sproul
Jarnkrok
Ferraro
Tatar
Emmerton
Matthias
Axelsson
Abdelkader

Volcanologist
05-29-2015, 10:24 AM
Every team trades picks, lots of 2nds get moved all the time. The problem is what we do with the ones we keep...hence the bloodletting by Shanahan in the scouting department.

hockeylover
05-29-2015, 10:26 AM
Every team trades picks, lots of 2nds get moved all the time. The problem is what we do with the ones we keep...hence the bloodletting by Shanahan in the scouting department.

Probably a little from column A, little from column B. Detroit has a bunch of misses too but they also have double the number of 2nds in the same amount of time. Losing franchises shouldn't be trading 6 out of their last 10 second rounders.

leafman101
05-29-2015, 10:28 AM
Yeah, the Leafs have traded away way too many picks. Odds of picking up players increase the more picks you have.

If the odds of getting an NHLer out of the 2nd round are ~20% or less, the more picks you have the better. Having only a handful of picks over a decade pretty much ensures that you won't get enough players out of the draft.

Volcanologist
05-29-2015, 10:31 AM
yeah, more is better. but the point is if you produced 4 good players out of that 10 nobody gives a shit about the 6 you traded away. It's because a mediocrity like Kulemin is the best of the lot that you have a real problem.

I'd say don't worry about it -- chances are the scouts we had would have blown all those picks anyway.

leafman101
05-29-2015, 10:40 AM
Well if they had the normal amount of picks, chances are they would have had two Kulemins.

But I'm more concerned with the future than the past. They should stop trading away so many picks.

hockeylover
05-29-2015, 10:50 AM
It looks like we're attempting to address both issues now -- lack of picks and the scouting staff -- so it'll be interesting to see how that pans out.

Volcanologist
05-29-2015, 02:31 PM
Brad Ross to Germany.

http://www.iserlohn-roosters.de/roostersnews/6531

while we're on the topic of crappy second round picks.

leafman101
05-29-2015, 02:42 PM
Not only crappy pick, but we traded 6'6 220 pound 20 goal scoring Jimmy Hayes for him.

LeafGm
05-29-2015, 02:44 PM
Not only crappy pick, but we traded 6'6 220 pound 20 goal scoring Jimmy Hayes for him.
...and to keep the theme going, Hayes was our second round pick in 2008.

leafman101
05-29-2015, 02:49 PM
Burke was actually the worst. All flash, no substance.

LeafOfFaith
05-29-2015, 05:18 PM
Burke was actually the worst. All flash, no substance.

I still don't hate him like most of the rest of you.

Some of those trades were still big time steals - Phaneuf for Stajan, JVR for Schenn, etc.

leafman101
05-29-2015, 05:51 PM
Where is the "etc" though?

He made a handful of good moves. In 5 years. And destroyed the organization while doing it. Two good trades and a couple solid top 10 picks hardly makes up for it.

LeafOfFaith
05-29-2015, 06:12 PM
In fairness, we were a playoff team that almost knocked off a beast in the East while he was here. Things had gone up in a meaningful way.

As soon as they got rid of him, Nonis brought in Bernier, made a few moves without improving the team really, kept Carlyle, and it went to shit.

leafman101
05-29-2015, 06:47 PM
This is still Burke's team. These are his core players. These are his draft picks. 7-8 years later is when you get the full view of a GM's plan. The guys who took over when he was fired were the guys that he hired.

It was a full on, unarguable, failure. One of the worst organizations in the league.

LeafOfFaith
05-29-2015, 07:10 PM
He was in power for what, three or four seasons?

I don't think it's fair to fully judge a guy's performance when he only had a short period of time to turn things around and was fired just as the team started to enjoy success.

This may be his core, but it's not his goalie or his supporting cast, and who knows what might've happened had he had a chance to make a few more rip off deals.

leafman101
05-30-2015, 07:24 AM
He was here for five full seasons, plus an offseason. He was fired just before the 6th season started. He was here a long time. The team was no better last year than it was when he got here.

The only reason this wasn't his supporting cast is because his drafting stunk and didn't produce a single player outside of the top 10. If he had drafted anything that would be the supporting cast 8 years later. But they have continually had to go to the UFA market for their depth. It Burke's plan the supporting cast was going to be Biggs, Blacker, Ryan, D'Amigo, Devane, Broll, Ross etc.

And again, after he was fired it was his guys who took over and further sank the team. Nonis/Poulin/Louiselle being here is on Burke. He elected to hire a bunch of his yes men buddies instead of a real front office.

Who know how long it will take Shanny to get out of the mess Burke left here. But he made a good trade for JVR so its fine.

hockeylover
05-30-2015, 09:14 AM
This is kinda cool.

http://www.theprojectionproject.com/Home/Search

hairnova
06-05-2015, 08:46 AM
Cody Donaghey was officially traded to Halifax this morning.

He was the "future considerations" in the deadline deal sending Fucale & Murphy to Quebec.

LeafGm
06-05-2015, 09:33 AM
I'd completely forgotten that we signed Cody Donaghey. I guess it was a tough season injury-wise; he tore his ACL & MCL when he got nailed with a knee-on-knee hit fairly early in the season. But he did at least put up good numbers in the games he did play (15 pts in 27 games). I guess since he just turned 19 last month, he'll be back in junior for another season.

Here's a little article (http://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2015/06/leafs-prospect-cody-donaghey-perseveres-on-his-way-to-the-pros.html) on Donaghey's year, for anyone who's interested.

LeafGm
06-05-2015, 01:09 PM
Looks like, his new entry-level deal aside, Andreas Johnson will be spending another year in Sweden:


James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 33m33 minutes ago
Leafs prospect Andreas Johnson will play another year in Sweden. Expect him in Toronto (Leafs or Marlies) in 2016-17 though.

Would have been nice to have him over in North America playing on a line with Nylander in the AHL, but I suppose another year in the SHL won't hurt. His team over there is good at least; Frolunda finished second in the SHL standings, as opposed to Nylander's former team MODO, who finished dead last.

Pronger84
06-05-2015, 01:16 PM
In fairness, we were a playoff team that almost knocked off a beast in the East while he was here. Things had gone up in a meaningful way.

As soon as they got rid of him, Nonis brought in Bernier, made a few moves without improving the team really, kept Carlyle, and it went to shit.

The problem I feel is this team was mis-evaluated... they made the playoffs in a shortened season and even then they hit the skids before game 48, had it been a full season who knows if they even made the dance.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 05:47 PM
So, in light of everything has happened the last few days, what's your top 10?


1) Marner
2) Nylander
3) Kapanen
4) Brown
5) Timashov
6) Bracco
7) Dermott
8) Valiev
9) Johnson
10) Hyman


Shit...our 11-15 doesn't look bad either

11) Bibeau
12) Verhaege
13) Korostelev
14) Loov
15) Percy


I seriously can't remember our cupboards ever being this stocked...

Metalleaf
07-01-2015, 05:48 PM
I'd consider sticking Korostelev in the top 10.

mbow30
07-01-2015, 05:49 PM
Found out that hyman played in my (and leafmans) summer League last year...

hockeylover
07-01-2015, 05:50 PM
So, in light of everything has happened the last few days, what's your top 10?


1) Marner
2) Nylander
3) Kapanen
4) Brown
5) Timashov
6) Bracco
7) Dermott
8) Valiev
9) Johnson
10) Hyman


Shit...our 11-15 doesn't look bad either

11) Bibeau
12) Verhaege
13) Korostelev
14) Loov
15) Percy

I think I have Bracco ahead of Timashov but I get the argument. Nice list. I posted yesterday someone updated Prospect Pool Rankings for the NHL and had us 9th now. And then we added Kapanen. Like where we're headed.

Two first rounders / 5 picks in the top 100 next year.

mbow30
07-01-2015, 05:51 PM
Also I think Percy and loov are 11-12 and probably also above the 7-10 guys. Verhaege imo isn't a real prospect either. Bibeaus also borderline.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 05:52 PM
I'd consider sticking Korostelev in the top 10.

Over who though? He's super, super boom or bust by the sounds of things. I think that projectability has to be considered when making a list like these.

Metalleaf
07-01-2015, 05:53 PM
Probably Hyman. Hyman will be an NHLer, but a 3rd liner at best IMO. Think Korostelev has a higher ceiling.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 05:55 PM
I think I have Bracco ahead of Timashov but I get the argument.

Kind of the same guy to me, just one did it in the CHL which I tend to put a lot more weight behind, than seeing good production for the USNDP


Nice list. I posted yesterday someone updated Prospect Pool Rankings for the NHL and had us 9th now. And then we added Kapanen. Like where we're headed.

Two first rounders / 5 picks in the top 100 next year.

I would really like to see the argument for 8 teams being ahead of us.....

hockeylover
07-01-2015, 05:55 PM
http://www.leijonat.fi/uutiset/tuoreimmat/item/13505-u20-tasta-leiriryhmasta-tiivistetaan-joukkue-turnaukseen-lake-placidiin.html

Finland's WJC Team just announced - Kapanen.

Now looking at likely Marner, Bracco, Dermott, Dzierkals, Korostelev, Timashov and Kapanen on their respective teams. Am I missing anyone?

hockeylover
07-01-2015, 05:56 PM
Kind of the same guy to me, just one did it in the CHL which I tend to put a lot more weight behind, than seeing good production for the USNDP

I would really like to see the argument for 8 teams being ahead of us.....

Figured it was something like that - fair.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 06:02 PM
Also I think Percy and loov are 11-12 and probably also above the 7-10 guys. Verhaege imo isn't a real prospect either. Bibeaus also borderline.

Carter's production and skating are too good to not being considered a real prospect. We'll see what he does in the AHL and if his tools carry over to pro, but he's definitely a legitimate prospect. We've seen Percy's transition to the AHL and what offensive ability we hoped he would have, didn't seem to come with him from the OHL...we're probably looking at a 4-5 defender who lacks size. Loov I see the argument for being higher though.

Bibeau borderline? How many 20 yr olds post .910+ in the AHL? Same age as Vasilevski, & posted a similar SV%. 2 years younger than Pickard, similar SV%. 2 years younger than Mazanec, much better SV%. All guys who are considered very legitimate goaltending prospects.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 06:05 PM
Probably Hyman. Hyman will be an NHLer, but a 3rd liner at best IMO. Think Korostelev has a higher ceiling.

I don't know man, you see a hard core break out season like Hyman had, it's hard to discount that. Korostelev does likely have the higher ceiling, but until we see him dominate in the CHL like Hyman did in the NCAA last year, it's hard to put Korostelev ahead imo.

mbow30
07-01-2015, 06:06 PM
Lehner put up 940 or whatever.

Bibeaus pretty run of the mill.

Vernaeghe's stagnant production is a red flag. Skating looks OK but not high end. I'll be honest though I thought he was on the small side but was wrong on that front

hockeylover
07-01-2015, 06:07 PM
I would really like to see the argument for 8 teams being ahead of us.....

It's here:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2505679-re-ranking-every-teams-prospect-pool-after-2015-nhl-draft/page/31

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 06:16 PM
Lehner put up 940 or whatever.

As a 21 yr old, yeah. As a 20 yr old he posted a .907...and Lehner was (is?) considered one of the best goaltending prospects on the planet. So we just had a big 20 yr old kid put up better numbers than Lehner did at 20....borderline?


Bibeaus pretty run of the mill.

His production in relation to his age really isn't.


Vernaeghe's stagnant production is a red flag.

Potentially, but it stabilized at the type of level that denotes legitimate potential NHL skill.


Skating looks OK but not high end. I'll be honest though I thought he was on the small side but was wrong on that front

Skating is plus imo, and size at draft was 6'2 185.

Good size, good skating, good junior production. There's always a question as to whether his talents will transfer over into pro, but to argue that someone with his profile isn't a "legit" prospect is silly.

mbow30
07-01-2015, 06:21 PM
Yours reading too far into bibeaus numbers because I don't think ahl save pct are that projectable. Especially over 20 game's.

He is an avg gpale prospect.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 06:22 PM
It's here:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2505679-re-ranking-every-teams-prospect-pool-after-2015-nhl-draft/page/31

I don't see the argument for Winnipeg...see meh arguments for Zona & Anaheim. Don't see it for CBJ, & the Isles


The amount of stroking Ehlers gets for lighting up the CHL is a bit mystifying. Nylander doesn't get near the press for being a PPG impact forward across the 2 of the top 4 men's leagues in the world as a 18 yr old....

Metalleaf
07-01-2015, 06:22 PM
I want to see how Bibeau fairs next season with a new system and an overhauled Marlies team. That will tell me if he's legit or not.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 06:27 PM
Yours reading too far into bibeaus numbers because I don't think ahl save pct are that projectable.

His numbers are his production. His production is excellent relative to his age. It makes him a legitimate goaltending prospect. And AHL SV% is an excellent indicator of future NHL success. You'd be hard pressed to find a NHL goalie who spent time in the AHL that didn't put up strong SV% in the AHL.


Especially over 20 game's.

31...but who is counting?


He is an avg gpale prospect.

Based on what? You seem to have a pretty loose grasp of the facts surrounding him.

hockeylover
07-01-2015, 06:27 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/insider/story/_/id/12161713/william-nylander-tops-ranking-top-50-drafted-prospects-nhl

Pronman's Top 50 Prospects from before the draft.

Nylander 1st, Kapanen 14th.

mbow30
07-01-2015, 06:31 PM
His numbers are his production. His production is excellent relative to his age. It makes him a legitimate goaltending prospect. And AHL SV% is an excellent indicator of future NHL success. You'd be hard pressed to find a NHL goalie who spent time in the AHL that didn't put up strong SV% in the AHL.



31...but who is counting?



Based on what? You seem to have a pretty loose grasp of the facts surrounding him.

You can find plenty of goalies who put up similar numbers at 20. Like garret sparks and Chris Gibson.

MindzEye
07-01-2015, 07:37 PM
You can find plenty of goalies who put up similar numbers at 20. Like garret sparks and Chris Gibson.

Heh, knock Bibeau for only playing 20 games, claiming that it makes his SV% irrelevant due to small sample size....be wrong...then pick 2 guys as comparables that played 20 games or fewer in their 20 yr old season in the AHL.

Adorable.

IrishWolfman
07-01-2015, 08:07 PM
Just once - once - in the preseason next year, let us see a line of Nylander - Marner - Kapanen.

Aberdeen
07-01-2015, 08:26 PM
Looks like he's good in traffic, shifty. Also looks pretty passionate too, which is encouraging.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=109&v=qN6N3hroupY

mbow30
07-01-2015, 09:11 PM
Heh, knock Bibeau for only playing 20 games, claiming that it makes his SV% irrelevant due to small sample size....be wrong...then pick 2 guys as comparables that played 20 games or fewer in their 20 yr old season in the AHL.

Adorable.

Where did I say that sparks and Gibson are better than marginal?

Just like bibeau.

Metalleaf
07-02-2015, 03:40 PM
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=773699

Leafs Prospect Camp opens up next Wednesday

http://2.cdn.nhle.com/mapleleafs/images/upload/2015/07/TORONTO-MAPLE-LEAFS-2015-PROSPECT-CAMP-ROSTER%282%29-page-001.jpg

Artnes
07-02-2015, 04:39 PM
Going to be a treat for those getting to see Nylander, Marner, Kapanen , Timashov and Bracco dance around with the puck at this camp.

Jeremy
07-02-2015, 04:44 PM
Didn't see this mentioned, Kapanen is the son of former NHL player Sami Kapanen. Pretty decent bloodline.

Metalleaf
07-02-2015, 04:49 PM
I figured most people assumed that.

CTheBigPicture
07-02-2015, 05:35 PM
Didn't see this mentioned, Kapanen is the son of former NHL player Sami Kapanen. Pretty decent bloodline.
Every time people force me to defend the game of hockey, I show them "that" play. That shift, while it was disastrous for the Leafs, was why I think hockey is the greatest game ever.

hockeylover
07-02-2015, 06:08 PM
http://www.theprojectionproject.com/blog/2015/06/24/the-big-list-ranking-the-2015-draft-by-probability-of-success/

4 Marner
22 Dermott
26 Bracco
32 Korostelev
28 Timashov

BeLeafer
07-02-2015, 07:50 PM
http://www.theprojectionproject.com/blog/2015/06/24/the-big-list-ranking-the-2015-draft-by-probability-of-success/

4 Marner
22 Dermott
26 Bracco
32 Korostelev
28 Timashov

Looking at their methodology, it seems to use only scoring stats, although they mention height as an optional variable. In any event, interesting that the Leafs picks rank so highly.

It seems to be way off scouting rankings and draft order for defensemen in particular. Who knows ... let's hope it's right. If it is, the Leafs made off like bandits on these picks.

hockeylover
07-02-2015, 07:56 PM
Looking at their methodology, it seems to use only scoring stats, although they mention height as an optional variable. In any event, interesting that the Leafs picks rank so highly.

It seems to be way off scouting rankings and draft order for defensemen in particular. Who knows ... let's hope it's right. If it is, the Leafs made off like bandits on these picks.

Maybe Metcalfe and the stats geeks Dubas assembled have a similar system to use in conjunction with Hunter's eye test.

MindzEye
07-02-2015, 07:58 PM
I don't think they give age enough weight. A July 97 birthday putting up 1.0ppg is a lot more impressive than an October 96 birthday doing the same.

BeLeafer
07-02-2015, 08:05 PM
Maybe Metcalfe and the stats geeks Dubas assembled have a similar system to use in conjunction with Hunter's eye test.

Was thinking this could well be the case. Five first rounders ... sweet.

Doesn't Hunter use advanced stats though? I recall something about him being very fond of tracking scoring chances for/against.

Kritter
07-02-2015, 09:10 PM
http://www.theprojectionproject.com/blog/2015/06/24/the-big-list-ranking-the-2015-draft-by-probability-of-success/

4 Marner
22 Dermott
26 Bracco
32 Korostelev
28 Timashov

I think whats interesting here is that, obviously, the Leafs didnt use this list as a reference or anything, they used their own system, their own scouts.. This list states :
No scouting has been taken into account with this list
So, it is solely based on #s and nothing else.

It is a positive that regarless of the eyeball test, these guys ranked so high simply based on a variable of numbers.

Habsy
07-03-2015, 08:28 AM
Probably Hyman. Hyman will be an NHLer, but a 3rd liner at best IMO. Think Korostelev has a higher ceiling.

You simply don't replace the hymen. It's a necessity in life.

LeafGm
07-03-2015, 09:24 AM
Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd try and put together the Marlies' likely opening night roster. This is what I've got:

Brendan Leipsic - William Nylander - Kasperi Kapanen
Nikita Soshnikov - Zach Hyman - Connor Brown
Josh Leivo - Carter Verhaeghe - Casey Bailey
Ryan Rupert - Frederik Gauthier - Matt Rupert

Victor Loov - Stuart Percy
Rinat Valiev - Petter Granberg
Scott Harrington - Matt Finn

Christopher Gibson
Garret Sparks

Graduated to NHL: Matt Frattin, Sam Carrick
Demoted to ECHL: Antoine Bibeau, Brendan Mikkelson, Kevin Marshall, Jack Rodewald
Not sure what to do with: T.J. Brennan, Byron Froese, Tom Nilsson

Of course, a whole bunch of our forward prospects may have a legit shot at cracking the NHL roster: Nylander, Brown, Kapanen, Soshnikov, Bailey, Hyman & Leivo. But I sort of get the feeling management will follow the same course they took last season and largely keep our top prospects off the NHL roster, while filling the Leafs roster with the likes of Panik, Winnik, Arcobello, Parenteau and maybe another bargain-bin signing/waiver wire pick-up or two.

It's also worth noting that we've got just as much of a glut on defense at the AHL level as we've got at the NHL level. Trades might open up a spot or two, but otherwise, Finn & Valiev (barring strong training camps) might be ticketed for the ECHL, as our youngest pro defensive prospects. One of Verhaeghe or The Goat may be ECHL-bound too, if management decides to bring back Byron Froese at center.

As for the goaltending, I've got nothing against Antoine Bibeau. The reason I've got him going to the ECHL is three fold: he's our youngest goalie prospect (just turned 21 two months ago), he had the weakest season out of all our goalie prospects, and I'd also really like us to give Garret Sparks more of a shot. Sparks has been putting up fantastic numbers in the ECHL (.936 SV% in 36 games last year), and whenever he's been called up for spot duty in the AHL, he's done well (.915 SV% in 21 games in 13/14, .966 SV% & one shutout in 2 AHL games this past season).

number17
07-03-2015, 09:35 AM
Shanny and Babcock already made it very clear the likes of Nylander, Brown, Kapanen, Leipsic are ALL going to play for the Marlies next season, will not get any NHL game except for the odd games of injury call up. So yes, your hunch is right.

Volcanologist
07-03-2015, 09:40 AM
yeah, they know it will be bad next season and they don't want their best kids wallowing in that shit.

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 10:30 AM
Mikkelson is gone...he won't be back.

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 10:32 AM
Also Bibeau had a nice season last year. Demoting him to the ECHL makes little sense after Sparks played there most of the year.

Brennan and even Froese could both see time on the main roster.

number17
07-03-2015, 11:43 AM
Wondering what's the scouting report on Kapenen ... haven't read too much on him other than the disappointing season in Finnish league and that he played a little better after coming over to the AHL. I haven't heard much analysis on Kapanen by the media, or any interview with him after the trade either. Most say he's "good player" and that's it ...

Is he a consensus sure-bet NHLer? Potential for 1st line W? Top 6?

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 11:54 AM
Top 6 player, is only 3 months older than Rantanen who was taken 10th this year. He was really young in his draft year.

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 12:23 PM
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/7/1/8878739/kasperi-kapanen-becomes-leafs-third-best-prospect

MindzEye
07-03-2015, 12:41 PM
There was nothing disappointing about his season in Liiga.

.5 ppg as a 18 yr old is really, really solid. On par with Rantanen, and most of the top prospects that come out of Finland.

leafman101
07-03-2015, 12:42 PM
7 points in 11 games in a short AHL stint isn't too bad at 18 either.

He hasn't posted elite game breaking Granlund/Barkov Finnish or Nylander AHL numbers, but why would he.

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 01:01 PM
Marlies signed 5 players to contracts today:

http://www.marlies.ca/news/news.asp?story_id=3539

Interesting that the Leafs now have Clapperton, Joly(at prospect camp), and Gauthier. They must have really liked that Rimouski team this year.

number17
07-03-2015, 01:21 PM
Marlies should be a LOT more exciting to watch than the Leafs this season, which is ironic cause you can still argue hiring Babcock was the biggest positive news for the leafs this year.

But I do look forward to O'Keefe coaching a team stacked with potential NHLers, headed by Nylander, Kapanen, Brown, Leipsic, Harrington, Johnson, among a long list of prospects / young players who have a legit chance of graduating into the NHL.

number17
07-03-2015, 01:22 PM
7 points in 11 games in a short AHL stint isn't too bad at 18 either.

He hasn't posted elite game breaking Granlund/Barkov Finnish or Nylander AHL numbers, but why would he.That's very cool ... looking forward to it. Would be great if he turns into a good 2nd liner for us.

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 01:27 PM
Johnson is staying in Sweden next season. And 17 is stuck in 1995 with his O'Keefe reference.

number17
07-03-2015, 02:00 PM
Johnson is staying in Sweden next season. And 17 is stuck in 1995 with his O'Keefe reference.Lol ... drop the O and I'm right.

Johnson is not coming over yet? That's disappointing.

hockeylover
07-03-2015, 03:44 PM
Scale to 10: 10=Generational Talent, 9=Franchise Talent, 8=NHL All-Star, 7=NHL Regular, 6=Fringe NHLer

1. C/RW Mitchell Marner (8.5) Marnerís blue and white tie on draft day was a subtle indication of whom he wanted to be selected by. His dream came true when the hometown Leafs called his name to the draft podium. Torontoís brass stated that they plan to keep Marner at center, but his ultimate upside may be as a high-scoring RW in the mold of the player he has been compared to most often in Chicago mega-star Patrick Kane.

2. C/RW William Nylander (8.0) A high-end offensive talent with the potential to pile up the points in the NHL. He will need to commit more fully to a complete game without the puck in order to realize his ultimate potential. Like Marner, he may benefit from the decreased responsibility of playing on the wing instead of at center.

3. RW Jeremy Bracco (7.5) A magician with the puck who often does a disappearing act without it. That sentence was very rewarding to write, but itís also an accurate depiction of why a player with such extraordinary offensive ability fell to the late second round (#61), where the Leafs snatched him up.

4. LW Kasperi Kapanen (7.5) Well, the inclusion of Kapanen in the Kessel deal assures us once more that Shanahan and Hunter are trying to build a high-skill, high-speed team in Toronto. Kapanen brings both of these traits in spades, but he gets a bit lost in the east-west sometimes at the expense of the north-south. He also plays as if the defensive zone is not actually part of the ice surface, but a dangerous place filled with rabid great white sharks which is meant to be avoided at all costs. Fixing these problems could result in an outstanding offensive force capable of point-per-game scoring.

5. RW Nikita Korostelev (7.5) We cannot remember the last time a seventh-round pick made it to our top-5 team prospect list just days after he was drafted in the seventh round. As it happens with Korostelevís mercurial talents, he can either make us look like idiots or geniuses. His upside is scoring 65-75 points per year in dynamic fashion as a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs. His downside is pumping your gas while muttering insanely under his breath how he could have been rich and famous if only all those [expletive] coaches didnít keep bugging him about his play without the puck.

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-prospects-2/nhl-prospects-toronto-maple-leafs-top-5/

BeLeafer
07-03-2015, 04:26 PM
Very impressed with how quickly they've stocked up the cupboard with high potential talent.

LeafGm
07-03-2015, 05:11 PM
Marlies signed 5 players to contracts today:

http://www.marlies.ca/news/news.asp?story_id=3539

Interesting that the Leafs now have Clapperton, Joly(at prospect camp), and Gauthier. They must have really liked that Rimouski team this year.
Sounds like Dubas is putting his "multi-tiered development system" plan into action. None of those guys have any realistic shot of making the Marlies, but they'll help make Orlando a better team and provide some added depth when the Marlies inevitably lose some guys to injuries and call-ups.


Lol ... drop the O and I'm right.

Johnson is not coming over yet? That's disappointing.
It will be disappointing we won't get a chance to see how Johnson's SHL success translates to the AHL for another year, but it's probably for the best. He'll get first line minutes and plenty of power-play time over in Sweden.

It would be a tougher fight for that kind of opportunity with the Marlies, with all the guys that'll likely be returning and some of our new additions (Kapanen, Hyman, Bailey, Soshnikov).


Very impressed with how quickly they've stocked up the cupboard with high potential talent.
Yep. It's a relief none of our current crop of prospects will have the same experience Nazem Kadri did. He got to spend years as our only forward prospect with anything resembling top-6 NHL potential, so all the focus and pressure was squarely on him.

Nylander & Marner, on the other hand, already have each other to "share the load", along with a couple other prospects with more potential than anybody else we had when Kadri was coming up. They also won't face pressure to develop as quick as possible in order to help a team in "win now" mode.

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 05:13 PM
They will play parts of seasons with both the Solar Bears and Marlies.

Metalleaf
07-03-2015, 05:13 PM
Btw I love having the Solar Bears as an affiliate, best name in sports.

Aberdeen
07-03-2015, 05:16 PM
Yep. It's a relief none of our current crop of prospects will have the same experience Nazem Kadri did. He got to spend years as our only forward prospect with anything resembling top-6 NHL potential, so all the focus and pressure was squarely on him.

Nylander & Marner, on the other hand, already have each other to "share the load", along with a couple other prospects with more potential than anybody else we had when Kadri was coming up. They also won't face pressure to develop as quick as possible in order to help a team in "win now" mode.

It'll be interesting too to see if it creates a sense of competition amongst all these prospects. I have a feeling a guy like Nylander likes to be considered #1.

hockeylover
07-03-2015, 05:18 PM
When was the last time we even had two prospects as good as Nylander and Marner at the same time?

leafman101
07-03-2015, 05:28 PM
Plus Reilly. It's just too bad the lockout season cut out their collapse. Could've had a Monahan or Jones.

BeLeafer
07-03-2015, 05:41 PM
Yep. It's a relief none of our current crop of prospects will have the same experience Nazem Kadri did. He got to spend years as our only forward prospect with anything resembling top-6 NHL potential, so all the focus and pressure was squarely on him.

Nylander & Marner, on the other hand, already have each other to "share the load", along with a couple other prospects with more potential than anybody else we had when Kadri was coming up. They also won't face pressure to develop as quick as possible in order to help a team in "win now" mode.

Good point.

It's also hard to overstate how badly they handled guys like Kadri. It was bad enough they traded picks and undeveloped prospects like playing cards and drafted like mouthbreathers. The development of the picks was just atroshish over the past decade. I'm very confident this group will do a far, far better job on this front.

hockeylover
07-03-2015, 08:26 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJCCbvBWcAAQm_3.jpg

Travis Dermott tweeted this picture of his bedroom before the draft.

Jeremy
07-03-2015, 08:40 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJCCbvBWcAAQm_3.jpg

Travis Dermott tweeted this picture of his bedroom before the draft.So cool. No wonder he was so happy during post-draft interviews.

Cojo
07-04-2015, 04:35 PM
Scale to 10: 10=Generational Talent, 9=Franchise Talent, 8=NHL All-Star, 7=NHL Regular, 6=Fringe NHLer

1. C/RW Mitchell Marner (8.5) Marner’s blue and white tie on draft day was a subtle indication of whom he wanted to be selected by. His dream came true when the hometown Leafs called his name to the draft podium. Toronto’s brass stated that they plan to keep Marner at center, but his ultimate upside may be as a high-scoring RW in the mold of the player he has been compared to most often in Chicago mega-star Patrick Kane.

2. C/RW William Nylander (8.0) A high-end offensive talent with the potential to pile up the points in the NHL. He will need to commit more fully to a complete game without the puck in order to realize his ultimate potential. Like Marner, he may benefit from the decreased responsibility of playing on the wing instead of at center.

3. RW Jeremy Bracco (7.5) A magician with the puck who often does a disappearing act without it. That sentence was very rewarding to write, but it’s also an accurate depiction of why a player with such extraordinary offensive ability fell to the late second round (#61), where the Leafs snatched him up.

4. LW Kasperi Kapanen (7.5) Well, the inclusion of Kapanen in the Kessel deal assures us once more that Shanahan and Hunter are trying to build a high-skill, high-speed team in Toronto. Kapanen brings both of these traits in spades, but he gets a bit lost in the east-west sometimes at the expense of the north-south. He also plays as if the defensive zone is not actually part of the ice surface, but a dangerous place filled with rabid great white sharks which is meant to be avoided at all costs. Fixing these problems could result in an outstanding offensive force capable of point-per-game scoring.

5. RW Nikita Korostelev (7.5) We cannot remember the last time a seventh-round pick made it to our top-5 team prospect list just days after he was drafted in the seventh round. As it happens with Korostelev’s mercurial talents, he can either make us look like idiots or geniuses. His upside is scoring 65-75 points per year in dynamic fashion as a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs. His downside is pumping your gas while muttering insanely under his breath how he could have been rich and famous if only all those [expletive] coaches didn’t keep bugging him about his play without the puck.

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-prospects-2/nhl-prospects-toronto-maple-leafs-top-5/

Very promising, a lot of offensive upside to all of them by the looks of it.

But damn, there are some defensive gaps that need to be filled in!

Artnes
07-04-2015, 05:16 PM
The Goat is all over it.

Leafin'
07-04-2015, 05:40 PM
It would be nice if we can get one of our defensemen than we drafted in recent years to take a big step and contribute. Somehow pluck a Subban type in the draft.

Metalleaf
07-05-2015, 11:45 AM
Marlies signed Rich Clune to an AHL deal. He'll be a vet presence and apparently is a gym rat, could be good for the kids.

Metalleaf
07-07-2015, 10:12 AM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/07/ea656b0c883945a9f9accc384c2ea52e.jpg

IrishWolfman
07-07-2015, 10:19 AM
Seriously, just once in training camp, a line of Nylander - Marner - Kapanen. Just to give Leafs fans a glimpse into the future.

Metalleaf
07-07-2015, 10:23 AM
Should find out where Bracco will play sometime this week.

Artnes
07-07-2015, 10:28 AM
Seriously, just once in training camp, a line of Nylander - Marner - Kapanen. Just to give Leafs fans a glimpse into the future.

fappitty fap fap

IrishWolfman
07-07-2015, 10:30 AM
Should find out where Bracco will play sometime this week.

Not that it's worth anything, but his USNTDP teammate Luke Opilka signed in Kitchener last week.

hockeylover
07-07-2015, 11:05 AM
Prospects on the ice w Barb Underhill today.

LeafGm
07-07-2015, 11:12 AM
Prospects on the ice w Barb Underhill today.
Have to figure her and Freddie the Goat will be spending a lot of time together this year.

Aberdeen
07-07-2015, 12:12 PM
Where are you guys getting your mini camp information?

Aberdeen
07-07-2015, 12:19 PM
Mitch marner ladies and gents

https://vine.co/v/en62eHvxvex

Metalleaf
07-07-2015, 12:22 PM
Paul Hendrick
Andreas Johnson confirms he'll go back to Frolunda for one more year before coming to Toronto. #TMLtalk

Metalleaf
07-07-2015, 12:30 PM
Paul Hendrick
Kaspari Kapanen on Darcy Tucker hit on his dad Sami back in 2004 post season "It's not very fun to watch. " #TMLtalk

LeafGm
07-07-2015, 12:41 PM
Paul Hendrick
Kaspari Kapanen on Darcy Tucker hit on his dad Sami back in 2004 post season "It's not very fun to watch. " #TMLtalk
I disagree Kasperi, I disagree.

What's not fun to watch is what happened almost immediately after the hit.

Leafin'
07-07-2015, 01:28 PM
How dumb is this media?

"Hey Kasperi, how do you feel when you see your father get destroyed by a hit?", "oh well i feel f*cking fantastic".

What do they expect? Media in this city is embarrassing.

MindzEye
07-07-2015, 02:38 PM
Mitch marner ladies and gents

https://vine.co/v/en62eHvxvex

That gave me the vapours....I'ma go lie down now.

LeafGm
07-07-2015, 02:38 PM
Some more stuff from the prospects camp:

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
#Leafs Kyle Dubas: "You look at the depth of the pool, especially at forward, it’s a very, very deep pool of prospects with high-end skill."

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Dubas: "We want it to be difficult for our young guys to make roster. If they can beat out established NHL guys, it means they’re ready."

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Dubas on Kapanen: "I get a kick out of when people call him small. He's not a 5-foot-9 guy … We wouldn't have done the deal without him."

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Dubas on Nylander: "you don’t really worry about him getting better…he doesn’t need to be pushed or prodded. He works his butt off everyday"

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
More Dubas on Nylander: "You don’t worry about his speed, you don’t worry about his skill, you just worry about him being strong enough."

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Also spoke with Andreas Johnson, who has to return to Sweden for the final year of his contract. Team is very high on how he is developing.

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Dubas on Gauthier: "You might not find him as visually appeasing as you would a high-end skill guy, but boy he’s extremely effective."

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Dubas added that Mike Babcock was very impressed with Gauthier: "He’s a guy that coaches always really like. They play him a lot."

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Dubas on Gauthier: He’s going to play a role for us as we move forward that’s going to be very, very valuable to us as an organization"

Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos
Dubas: "We can’t have all the same players. That’s why we really like Fred & are really excited to see him as a pro"

MindzEye
07-07-2015, 02:40 PM
Paul Hendrick
Andreas Johnson confirms he'll go back to Frolunda for one more year before coming to Toronto. #TMLtalk

Expected, and good for us. We're already over loaded at the AHL level and the kid is a premier weapon for Frolunda, so will get all sorts of opportunity and ice time. I expect Nylander and Brown to get a taste of the show on a call up basis this year and both to make the big team next year, clearing some of those top 6 spots for Johnson to roll into.

LeafOfFaith
07-07-2015, 03:13 PM
The only thing that concerns me a bit is that you can't just flood the roster at one time with several kids with no NHL experience.

Assuming they hold back all the kids this year, you have to believe next year Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, and Brown - at minimum - are on the Leafs' roster. Can we really also have Johnson, Leipsic, Bracco, and others on at the same time?

LeafGm
07-07-2015, 03:40 PM
The only thing that concerns me a bit is that you can't just flood the roster at one time with several kids with no NHL experience.

Assuming they hold back all the kids this year, you have to believe next year Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, and Brown - at minimum - are on the Leafs' roster. Can we really also have Johnson, Leipsic, Bracco, and others on at the same time?
I'm not sure why you've got Bracco in there. He's a 5'9" kid that just turned 18 a couple of months ago. At minimum, he's likely in for a couple years in the NCAA or OHL, followed by a year in the AHL once he's ready to turn pro. Johnson, likewise, is a ways away. He'll play in Frolunda this year, and then they'll probably want him to adapt to the North American game and prove himself in the AHL before throwing him into the NHL. He's only 20 years old.

As for the others, I agree that, barring any big set-backs, we'll probably see Brown & Nylander in the NHL by 2016/17. But there isn't really much point in trying to project Kapanen's exact development path right now---he's an 18 year old kid with only 11 games in North America under his belt. Let's see how he plays in the AHL this year before worrying about what to do with him next year.

Ditto with Marner. How soon he jumps to the NHL is likely going to depend on how soon he's able to develop an NHL body, and there's no real way to predict that at this point. As for "flooding the roster with kids with no NHL experience", I see no reason to expect that the Leafs aren't going to continue doing what they're doing: signing useful NHL veterans to bargain deals, and challenging their young players to beat them out for roster spots. That's likely going to prevent any sudden flood of rookies from making it on to the team at all once at any point in the next few years.

Aberdeen
07-07-2015, 03:41 PM
Interview with Nylander on Maple Leafs website http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videocenter/

And he's looking way less boy-ish. I mean can't tell much from the video but he seems to have really bulked up.

leafman101
07-07-2015, 03:42 PM
The won't flood the roster with several kids with no experience. And its much less of a problem when those kids are actually ready for the NHL, a little older and have a bunch of pro experience.

leafman101
07-07-2015, 03:46 PM
Interview with Nylander on Maple Leafs website http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videocenter/

And he's looking way less boy-ish. I mean can't tell much from the video but he seems to have really bulked up.

So much better to see kids with that kind of work eithic, unlike previous Leafs picks/building blocks like Kessel and Kadri.

Having guys like Rielly, Marner and Nylander that have high end skill, and a high end work ethic bodes pretty well for the future of the team. Need those guys to always be pushing themselves to get better and set the example for the organization.

MindzEye
07-07-2015, 03:50 PM
The only thing that concerns me a bit is that you can't just flood the roster at one time with several kids with no NHL experience.

As long as they're properly insulated with good veterans, I don't see the problem really. It's not like we're expecting to be good next year, and if Babs thinks they're ready to go and play a legit role for the NHL club, I'd have no qualms with it.


Assuming they hold back all the kids this year, you have to believe next year Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, and Brown - at minimum - are on the Leafs' roster.



Can we really also have Johnson, Leipsic, Bracco, and others on at the same time?

Johnson & Bracco are likely in the AHL next year for at least a year or two . Leipsic plays a different style than the pure skill kids we have and will probably have to grind his way up through the 4th line into the middle or top 6, so I'm not really worried there either.

The big key for us imo, is to not fall into the Edmonton trap, where there is a bunch of talented young guys on the team together, surrounded by veterans that are past their best before dates (Ferrence), and over paid fringe NHL'ers forced into leadership roles they're just not suited for (Nikita, Fayne, etc). We need veterans who can help the kids by driving the bus, not guys who are only valuable for assumed locker room leadership because they're old.

The Winnik's, & Polak's of the world for example.

MindzEye
07-07-2015, 04:01 PM
Interview with Nylander on Maple Leafs website http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videocenter/

And he's looking way less boy-ish. I mean can't tell much from the video but he seems to have really bulked up.

Yep, he got bigger.

Great flow, that kid is going to bang everything in the entire city.

LeafOfFaith
07-07-2015, 04:07 PM
I'm not sure why you've got Bracco in there. He's a 5'9" kid that just turned 18 a couple of months ago. At minimum, he's likely in for a couple years in the NCAA or OHL, followed by a year in the AHL once he's ready to turn pro. Johnson, likewise, is a ways away. He'll play in Frolunda this year, and then they'll probably want him to adapt to the North American game and prove himself in the AHL before throwing him into the NHL. He's only 20 years old.

As for the others, I agree that, barring any big set-backs, we'll probably see Brown & Nylander in the NHL by 2016/17. But there isn't really much point in trying to project Kapanen's exact development path right now---he's an 18 year old kid with only 11 games in North America under his belt. Let's see how he plays in the AHL this year before worrying about what to do with him next year.

Ditto with Marner. How soon he jumps to the NHL is likely going to depend on how soon he's able to develop an NHL body, and there's no real way to predict that at this point. As for "flooding the roster with kids with no NHL experience", I see no reason to expect that the Leafs aren't going to continue doing what they're doing: signing useful NHL veterans to bargain deals, and challenging their young players to beat them out for roster spots. That's likely going to prevent any sudden flood of rookies from making it on to the team at all once at any point in the next few years.

Good response.

I do think we're going to see Marner (subject to his weight), Nylander, Brown, Kapanen, and Gauthier ready to go at more or less the same time. With Leipsic and Johnson not far behind.

But I'm not worried. The way they've been navigating since firmly taking control of the wheel at the deadline, I'm confident these guys know what they're doing.

Leafin'
07-07-2015, 04:23 PM
Yep, he got bigger.

Great flow, that kid is going to bang everything in the entire city.

LOL. That hair holyyy...

hockeylover
07-07-2015, 07:05 PM
https://vine.co/v/en62eHvxvex

Marner.

Should be interesting to see Marner back with the Knights this year. They're gonna be stacked again, aren't they?

https://i.imgur.com/soZY1gTl.jpg

Swiped this from HFboards.

rated
07-07-2015, 07:21 PM
https://vine.co/v/en62eHvxvex

Marner.

Should be interesting to see Marner back with the Knights this year. They're gonna be stacked again, aren't they?

https://i.imgur.com/soZY1gTl.jpg

Swiped this from HFboards.

Yeah knights should be really good. Marner playing center a long side Max Jones all year could be really fun....

hockeylover
07-07-2015, 07:28 PM
And Matthew Tkachuk.

Pretty good.

Metalleaf
07-07-2015, 07:34 PM
And Zach Werenski

Artnes
07-07-2015, 08:12 PM
https://vine.co/v/en62eHvxvex

Marner.

Should be interesting to see Marner back with the Knights this year. They're gonna be stacked again, aren't they?

https://i.imgur.com/soZY1gTl.jpg

Swiped this from HFboards.

You can see the weight on in his neck.

Someone has been hitting the squat rack!

Hoss
07-07-2015, 09:52 PM
http://canitbesaturdaynow.com/images/fpics/907/april_2_37_.jpg

Metalleaf
07-08-2015, 09:25 AM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/08/f465772d554d17c601ca4b14d900f360.jpg

CTheBigPicture
07-08-2015, 09:29 AM
https://vine.co/v/en62eHvxvex

Marner.

Should be interesting to see Marner back with the Knights this year. They're gonna be stacked again, aren't they?

https://i.imgur.com/soZY1gTl.jpg

Swiped this from HFboards.
The pic on the left should be of end of June at the draft. This means that he's done this in exactly one year. Good to see.

LeafGm
07-08-2015, 09:50 AM
Yeah knights should be really good. Marner playing center a long side Max Jones all year could be really fun....
Should be fun keeping track of whatever absurd point totals Marner puts up in the OHL this year. I remember how excited this board was when Kadri went back down for his first post-draft year and we were keeping track of his point totals---and Kadri *only* put up 93 points in 56 games that year. I'm not even sure I can venture a guess how many points Marner's going to score next year with the supporting cast he'll have, after scoring 126 points in 63 games as a 17 year-old last year.

If Rogers (or whoever owns the OHL rights next year) is smart, they'll put as many London games on TV as they can. Ditto with the Leafs. If they can spend $30M or so to pay Nathan Horton to not play hockey, it'd be nice if they could find a budget to put a whole lot more Marlie games on LeafTV, and improve the picture quality by filming them with something other than a potato. If Nylander, Kapanen, Brown & the rest are all staying in the AHL next year, I'll be as interested in watching the Marlies as I am in watching the Leafs.

Metalleaf
07-08-2015, 09:58 AM
@HennyTweets: @Metalleaf core strength is exceptional. #TMLtalk #nylander

Aberdeen
07-08-2015, 10:04 AM
Paul Hendrick can be a bit of a shill, but it's nice that he interacts a little bit.

LeafGm
07-08-2015, 10:08 AM
Any guesses how many guys we'll have in the 2016 WJC's?

Unless the Leafs don't want to release players who are with the Marlies, we've got a lot of potential candidates:

Canada: Mitch Marner, Travis Dermott
United States: Jeremy Bracco
Russia: Nikita Korostelev
Sweden: William Nylander, Jesper Lindgren, Dmytro Timashov
Finland: Kasperi Kapanen

Then there's also Martins Dzierkals for Latvia, but Latvia won't be playing the main tournament this year.

Metalleaf
07-08-2015, 10:46 AM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/08/80d752c8b5cb3c61f92a5d6a7a9d45a8.jpg

Aberdeen
07-08-2015, 10:49 AM
Toronto Maple Leafs ‏@MapleLeafs 2m2 minutes ago
The 340 refers to the number of days they're expected to work each year.

IrishWolfman
07-08-2015, 11:41 AM
Any guesses how many guys we'll have in the 2016 WJC's?

Unless the Leafs don't want to release players who are with the Marlies, we've got a lot of potential candidates:

Canada: Mitch Marner, Travis Dermott
United States: Jeremy Bracco
Russia: Nikita Korostelev
Sweden: William Nylander, Jesper Lindgren, Dmytro Timashov
Finland: Kasperi Kapanen

Then there's also Martins Dzierkals for Latvia, but Latvia won't be playing the main tournament this year.

Dermott is going to be in tough to make that Team Canada defence corps. It's not impossible but it'll be tight.

I think Pierre Engvall might have a shot at the Swedish roster. He had a great season with the Frolunda Juniors, he's a physical presence in addition to a scoring presence and it looks like he could be loaned to an Allsvenskan squad where he'd get more opportunity to start the season than having to crack the Frolunda SHL squad.

hockeylover
07-08-2015, 11:41 AM
Any guesses how many guys we'll have in the 2016 WJC's?

Unless the Leafs don't want to release players who are with the Marlies, we've got a lot of potential candidates:

Canada: Mitch Marner, Travis Dermott
United States: Jeremy Bracco
Russia: Nikita Korostelev
Sweden: William Nylander, Jesper Lindgren, Dmytro Timashov
Finland: Kasperi Kapanen

Then there's also Martins Dzierkals for Latvia, but Latvia won't be playing the main tournament this year.

Lindgren wasn't invited to Swedens camp but Timashov was. But man it's gonna be fun with that many in the tournament...

JaysCyYoung
07-08-2015, 11:56 AM
Reminds me of the 2003 Team Canada edition that had four Leafs on it playing major roles: Carlo Colaiacovo, Ian White, Kyle Wellwood, and Matt Stajan.

IrishWolfman
07-08-2015, 11:57 AM
Reminds me of the 2003 Team Canada edition that had four Leafs on it playing major roles: Carlo Colaiacovo, Ian White, Kyle Wellwood, and Matt Stajan.

Hopefully, with a better result than that Team Canada

JaysCyYoung
07-08-2015, 11:58 AM
Hopefully, with a better result than that Team Canada

That was a Team Canada that I'm sure we'd both agree did far better on paper than their talent level suggested. They also had to deal with a Russian roster full of 6'4, 6'5, 220 pound 19 and 20 year-olds, many of whom were clearly on steroids.

And Medvedev was such a fat **** that he took up 3/4 of the net with his girth alone.