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Wayward DP
09-14-2017, 09:17 AM
I was at the game on Friday against Montreal. A little belated, but some thoughts:

Liljegren is not ready. He made a number of poor decisions and got caught up ice for odd man rushes against multiple times. One Hab goal was the result of Timmy literally putting the puck right on the Habs forward's stick from behind our own goal line. He looked lost at times defensively. But, the talent is there. His skating is silky. He's great with the puck. His shot is strong and sneaky. A year or two away at this point I would think.

Keaton Middleton impressed me a bit on D (until he got knocked out of the game in a fight).

Up front Bracco was by far our best forward, followed by Dzierkals. Dzierkals is quick and seems pretty strong on the puck.

The forward I came away most impressed with was Vladimir Bobylev. Big, skates well, very strong on the puck, physical presence. I think we may have something here.

Grunnstrom was kinda meh. Don't see top-6 offensive skills. Maybe not even middle-6.

number17
09-14-2017, 09:45 AM
I think we may be too harsh on Liljegren. I agree he is not ready, but in the MTL game he was burnt by his D partner a lot as well. He was caught in oddman rushes a LOT because of bad pinches by his partner (Gordeev / Smart). The pass from behind the net to the slot was his fault completely, but it was a tough game for him thanks to his partner. He was physically beat a lot though ... and for that reason alone he is definitely not NHL ready.

Middleton looked good until that fight. I don't get how he lost the fight to someone who's only up to his shoulder (or not even) ... seems like he took an uppercut hard to the chin.

Artnes
09-14-2017, 09:48 AM
Guys tended to single him out more it seemed. The hyped ones always have a bigger target on their backs in camps

LeafGm
09-14-2017, 10:50 AM
It's worth keeping in mind that while Liljegren's game against the Habs was a bit of a dumpster-fire, he looked 100% better the next game against the Sens. And even when he's not having a great game, his underlying skills definitely jump off the screen. His skating and puck-handling are as advertised.

Anyway, as I'm fond of pointing out---this kid just turned 18 about four months ago. So really, I've always come in with the default expectation that he'll need more time before he's NHL ready---particularly with the playing time he also missed last year, and with the way he was jumped around from team to team.

Give him a full, stable year with the Marlies, and then we'll see what we've got. There's no rush.

Wayward DP
09-14-2017, 03:26 PM
I think my views on Liljegren are somewhat coloured by my (very high) expectations for him.

But most of the odd man rushes he was on the ice for Friday were a direct result of him getting caught up ice. The skills are there though. He's just not as NHL-ready as I had hoped.

As a side note, watching players fight with visors is awful. Awful because a) they barely land any punches of significance; and b) you get to watch them bludgeon their hands on helmets and visors. The fight on Friday was pretty much just Middleton swinging and beating up Pezzata's helmet and/or visor, and then the little bugger landed one solid punch on Middleton that basically ended it.

BeLeafer
09-14-2017, 03:31 PM
But most of the odd man rushes he was on the ice for Friday were a direct result of him getting caught up ice.

This makes blueliners look bad but it is usually the result of his teammates not recognizing he's jumped up and needs to be covered. On one of them at least, I saw his d partner stay in on the offensive blueline after watching him jump up with the puck. I think it was Middleton but I'm not sure. The forwards on Friday were MIA on the defensive coverage too.

Wayward DP
09-14-2017, 03:37 PM
This makes blueliners look bad but it is usually the result of his teammates not recognizing he's jumped up and needs to be covered. On one of them at least, I saw his d partner stay in on the offensive blueline after watching him jump up with the puck. I think it was Middleton but I'm not sure. The forwards on Friday were MIA on the defensive coverage too.

It is a shared responsibility. The D needs to exercise good judgment with regards to when it is appropriate to pinch. Part of that judgment involves the ability of the forwards to cover for you in the event you got caught. Timmy may have been hung out to dry by his teammates at times, but he also made bad pinches.

BeLeafer
09-14-2017, 03:45 PM
It is a shared responsibility. The D needs to exercise good judgment with regards to when it is appropriate to pinch. Part of that judgment involves the ability of the forwards to cover for you in the event you got caught. Timmy may have been hung out to dry by his teammates at times, but he also made bad pinches.

Yeah, probably a lot of this is just guys not knowing one another. I'm not sure they even practiced much before the game.

hockeylover
09-29-2017, 09:59 PM
Eemeli Rasanen with 2 goals 2 assists tonight in 5-0 win

hockeylover
10-01-2017, 11:39 PM
And another two assists tonight for Rasanen. That's 7 points in 5 games for him and he's now listed at 6'7 and 226 lbs. Yikes.

zeke
10-02-2017, 12:02 AM
skating didn't look great in rookie camp. hopefully that doesn't hurt him longterm.

but his offense was already legit last year, and if he keeps up anywhere near here it puts him in top company.

hockeylover
10-02-2017, 12:23 AM
Barb may be able to help a bit there. Given the offense and size combination seems like a worthy pick though.

LeafGm
10-02-2017, 01:20 AM
Seems like all of our mutant-sized defensive prospects are off to a good start in the OHL (with the exception of 6'6" Keaton Middleton, who's still out from a concussion he suffered in the Leaf rookie tournament).

Nicolas Mattinen (6'5", 215lbs), who was traded from London to Flint prior to the season, has a goal and four points in three games. Fedor Gordeev (6'6", 211 lbs) has two goals in his first three games. And then there's Rasanen (6'7", 226lbs) with two goals and seven points in five games.

Aberdeen
10-02-2017, 02:31 PM
Oh boy...

Former #Leafs first rounder Tyler Biggs released from his tryout with #AHL Utica

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LeafGm
10-02-2017, 02:55 PM
Yeah...kid probably should have stayed in the NCAA.

Then, at least, he'd have gotten a free college education out of his hockey career.

LeafGm
10-02-2017, 09:57 PM
With the Leafs having made most of their cuts, and with the Marlies having demoted a bunch of players to the Solar Bears (including draftees JJ Piccinich & Vladimir Bobylev), it's starting to become more clear what shape the Marlies are going to take this year.

If we assume that Timothy Liljegren and Calle Rosen are both being sent to the Marlies, this is the group they'll be picking this year's Marlies from:



C Miro Aaltonen
C Frederik Gauthier
C Colin Greening
C Chris Mueller
C Adam Brooks

LW Andreas Johnsson
LW Mason Marchment
LW Trevor Moore
LW Nikita Soshnikov
LW Dmytro Timashov
LW Kerby Rychel

RW Kasperi Kapanen
RW Ben Smith
RW Tobias Lindberg
RW Martins Dzierkals
RW Jeremy Bracco

LD Andrew Nielsen
LD Travis Dermott
LD Rinat Valiev
LD Calle Rosen

RD Vincent LoVerde
RD Michael Paliotta
RD Alex Gudbranson
RD Justin Holl
RD Timothy Liljegren

G Kasimir Kaskisuo
G Garret Sparks


Looks like the Marlies are essentially the same story as the Leafs.

Not necessarily an easy roster to crack, and there will be a serious battle for ice-time.

zeke
10-02-2017, 10:51 PM
yeah i was trying to put a lineup together.

Soshnikov - Aaltonen - Kapanen
Moore - Smith - Johnsson
Rychel - Gauthier - Lindberg
Greening - Mueller - Clune
Timashov - Brooks - Bracco

Rosen/Borgman - Dermott
Valiev - Liljegren
Nielsen - Loverde
Holl

Hoglund14
10-03-2017, 12:49 AM
They really should get rid of guys like Lindberg and Rychel. No sense ruining the development of some kids who still have a shot of an nhl career for them. I understand guys like greening and smith since they want some vets down there, but it's time to trim some of the fat.

I'm not overly high on bracco but it would be a shame to see guys like him and brooks on the outside looking in.

LeafGm
10-03-2017, 12:56 PM
Looks like Liljegren to the Marlies is official. His agent seems to be confirming it on twitter.

CTheBigPicture
10-03-2017, 01:07 PM
Awesome. I was hoping for that.

Jeremy
10-03-2017, 03:39 PM
Button says it's a mistake to put Liljegren with the Marlies bc:

-he's an 18 year defenceman and it's hard to play in the AHL
-he had a roller coaster season last year so he needs to get his footing, play, handle the puck, skate and find his confidence in his game back in Sweden; his best development is clearly over in Sweden
-AHL schedule is demanding and you're playing against men; he's not ready for that level of play
-AHL is a development league but not one for 18 year olds

MindzEye
10-03-2017, 03:56 PM
Button also felt that rask was the 2nd best goalie prospect in our system and that the worst statistical goalie in the nhl was a good bet to bounce back.

LeafGm
10-03-2017, 04:45 PM
For whatever reason, Button's views on the AHL seem to be weirdly ignorant & lacking contextual analysis.

I remember hearing him on the radio last year basically playing down Kasperi Kapanen's point-a-game performance in the AHL as nothing special, since plenty of players who aren't NHL caliber score at that pace in the AHL.

Of course, the context lacking in that argument was that point-per-game 20 year-old AHLers are actually pretty rare. Fewer than 20 players have done it since the lockout, and the vast majority of them have gone on to be at least good top-6 scorers at the NHL level.

As far as his opinion on Liljegren goes, the context lacking here is that the Swedish team we'd be sending him to is a complete disaster. They finished second-last in the SHL last year (with a 16-36 record). This year, they're off to an 0-4 start and have been out-scored by a 24-11 margin in those games.

So, how the hell is that going to be a good spot for an 18 year-old defenseman to "find his confidence"? And how could the Leafs trust them to put the development of an 18 year-old defenseman on the front-burner when that team's going to be life and death to avoid being relegated out of the SHL?

His complaint about the AHL schedule being demanding is also lacking context. Because, yes, the AHL schedule does include a lot more games than the SHL, as well as a ton of back-to-back games, and even a bunch of three games in three night stretches. But under Dubas's management the last couple of years, the Leafs have mitigated this (particularly for their younger players) by carrying expanded rosters, and moving players in and out of the lineup during stretches of games in consecutive nights.

leafman101
10-03-2017, 04:46 PM
Liljegren played like 12 minutes a game last year, and bounced around all over the place with 2 different organizations at 3 different levels. Why would they want to send him back for that when they can completely control his development here?

BeLeafer
10-03-2017, 04:49 PM
Very pleased that Liljegren is going to the Marlies. I think that will be great for his development.

In terms of Button re: ppg in the AHL claim, I thought that was about him downplaying Nylander last fall.

rated
10-03-2017, 06:00 PM
Button says it's a mistake to put Liljegren with the Marlies bc:

-he's an 18 year defenceman and it's hard to play in the AHL
-he had a roller coaster season last year so he needs to get his footing, play, handle the puck, skate and find his confidence in his game back in Sweden; his best development is clearly over in Sweden
-AHL schedule is demanding and you're playing against men; he's not ready for that level of play
-AHL is a development league but not one for 18 year olds

I don't get the playing against men thing. Wouldnt he be playing against men vs the league he plays in sweden ?

LeafOfFaith
10-03-2017, 06:09 PM
There's no better place for him that the AHL.

He'll learn the NA game at an early age, he'll have far superior coaching, facilities, and teammates, and on a personal level will be familiarizing himself with the city and the team.

LeafGm
10-04-2017, 10:14 AM
Very pleased that Liljegren is going to the Marlies. I think that will be great for his development.

In terms of Button re: ppg in the AHL claim, I thought that was about him downplaying Nylander last fall.
Button no doubt has made idiotic comments about Nylander at some point.

But the specific instance I was referring to was about Kapanen, towards the end of last season, when Kapanen was dominating the AHL and humming along at a 35-goal, point-a-game pace---as a 20 year-old.

And actually, having looked it up, his comments were even dumber than I remembered:


“B” prospect. I don’t think he’s shown the consistency in his game to merit full-time NHL duty. It’s a big area that he’s got to work on. He can skate, when he’s on his game, his skating becomes a factor, but he’s inconsistent. He goes through long stretches of unproductive, indifferent play. He cannot have long stretches of indifferent and unproductive play. So that’s something that’s part of the maturing process, for Kasperi Kapanen. I’ll be real straight with you. A point a game in the AHL means nothing to me.

It means nothing to me. You know what? Dime a dozen. Point-a-game guys in the Amer- top point producers in the American League? Dime a dozen.

He’s gotta figure out what his game is. He’s been an offensive player coming up, he’s not going to be an offensive player in the NHL, in my view. Mike Babcock’s g-I think he’s in a good spot, playing in that part of the lineup. He not playing ahead of Marner! He not gonna play ahead of, uhh…Nylander! Like for.. so, you better figure out how to be a good, uhh, winger, winger, behind those two guys. You better, and he’s not better than Connor Brown. So he better figure out how to be a player. Simple as that.

Well, if I hear one more time “point a game player in the American Hockey League”, like, I might just vomit. Like seriously, it means nothing.

Well, what is his ceiling? I hear about ceiling. Kasperi Kapanen, okay, is an inconsistent player. And through his inconsistency, he becomes highly unproductive. So what is his ceiling? To try to be consistent? Wow. Isn’t that what you have to be, to be a good NHL player?

WellPlayed
10-04-2017, 10:23 AM
That man ran a hockey team. He made decisions...for a team...worth millions of dollars....in the best league on earth...

Aberdeen
10-04-2017, 10:49 AM
And Trump runs the most powerful country on earth.

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BeLeafer
10-06-2017, 06:05 AM
Button no doubt has made idiotic comments about Nylander at some point.

But the specific instance I was referring to was about Kapanen, towards the end of last season, when Kapanen was dominating the AHL and humming along at a 35-goal, point-a-game pace---as a 20 year-old.

And actually, having looked it up, his comments were even dumber than I remembered:

Wow, what a tool. This is the man responsible for the Rask fiasco, of course. How he has any credibility at all is beyond me.

Volcanologist
10-06-2017, 03:58 PM
There's a reason Button isn't working in the league.

CTheBigPicture
10-06-2017, 04:19 PM
"Before making the trade for Andrew Raycroft at the draft, Leafs general manager John Ferguson leaned heavily on pro scout Craig Button and goaltending coach Steve McKichan before making his final decision.

Button told Ferguson that he believed Raycroft could return to the form that earned him rookie-of-the-year honours two years ago and McKichan was confident he could help Raycroft find his game."

hockeylover
10-06-2017, 11:36 PM
Another goal for Rasanen tonight.

Artnes
10-07-2017, 11:17 AM
Babs on the Pickard deal:

We're in a better situation. Our guys in the AHL, we have to sort that out. Maybe someone is looking for an AHL goalie

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LeafOfFaith
10-07-2017, 11:32 AM
Not sure what he’s saying there. That we want to trade Sparks now?

Artnes
10-07-2017, 12:31 PM
He basically said someone is getting traded without actually saying it

My money is on Sparks

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johnunit
10-07-2017, 02:47 PM
maybe someone liked Kask during preseason?

LeafGm
10-07-2017, 02:50 PM
It doesn't necessarily have to be a trade. They could also loan one of their goalies to another AHL team.

At this point though, I wonder if MLSE should just buy a second AHL team instead of bothering with the ECHL.

Jeremy
10-07-2017, 03:28 PM
Grundstrom with 1g and 1a in Frolunda win

hockeylover
10-07-2017, 03:31 PM
https://imageshack.com/i/pn11kD7Fj

zeke
10-07-2017, 03:41 PM
I'd say that 3rd pair is actually the 2nd pair.

Nice to see Brooks get the look right off the bat. I'm more interested in him than I am in bracco or tima anymore.

Leafin'
10-08-2017, 01:10 AM
It doesn't necessarily have to be a trade. They could also loan one of their goalies to another AHL team.

At this point though, I wonder if MLSE should just buy a second AHL team instead of bothering with the ECHL.

Would that really solve any issue for our team? We'd still be subject to a 50 contract limit. Though i guess we'd be able to split guys onto the 2 teams to ensure they receive proper minutes on the ice.

I wonder if we'd be allowed to control 2 AHL franchises.

johnunit
10-08-2017, 08:40 AM
Would that really solve any issue for our team? We'd still be subject to a 50 contract limit. Though i guess we'd be able to split guys onto the 2 teams to ensure they receive proper minutes on the ice.

I wonder if we'd be allowed to control 2 AHL franchises.

That might even help us sign or keep players. "Even if you're sent down, we've got two AHL teams so you'll get lots of playing time there." Would certainly be a bonus for guys like Kapanen and Timashov right about now.

MindzEye
10-08-2017, 09:44 AM
We've had "skill" type prospects playing on the 4th line over the last few years...getting them top 6 minutes as well as being able to surround them with good minor league veterans instead of other kids would appear on the surface to be a good idea.

Call them the St. Pats and put them in Mississauga or something

LeafOfFaith
10-08-2017, 01:48 PM
But how long will we have this many good prospects?

To require two AHL teams really means you’re in a stockpiling stage all the time, which we won’t be.

Deckie007
10-08-2017, 01:58 PM
No way the NHL lets us do it, not with the Blues and Knights already sharing an affiliate. Having our ECHL affiliate in the GTA instead of Orlando would be lovely though.

Leafin'
10-08-2017, 01:59 PM
But how long will we have this many good prospects?

To require two AHL teams really means you’re in a stockpiling stage all the time, which we won’t be.

Forever.

CTheBigPicture
10-08-2017, 02:54 PM
Forever.Even our yet to be drafted future draftees are superstar material. 30 out of 30 GMs...

BeLeafer
10-08-2017, 03:00 PM
It's the key to long-term success -- keep turning out prospects. This was important in Sam Pollack's day and is even more important under salary cap conditions.

Seems to me that the Shanagroup get this.

hockeylover
10-08-2017, 04:43 PM
Liljegren with his first goal as a Marlie. They're up 2-1.


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MindzEye
10-08-2017, 05:40 PM
Forever.

+

draft for high skill and sign every euro free agent we can. Just being in a city like Toronto instead of Binghamton or Adirondack is a huge selling feature for these euro kids wanting to give north America a shot.

Yeah we're not going to have the willy type prospects rolling through their very often but kids like kappy and Timmy absolutely.

But it's the timashovs, braccos, etc that this type of move would be for. Open up top 6 ice time for them.

LeafGm
10-08-2017, 05:58 PM
Yeah, there's two main things I like about the idea of a second AHL team.

One would be the additional opportunities we'd have for our skilled prospects. There's only so much power-play time and top-6 minutes to go around. Not to mention Dzierkals has been demoted to the ECHL after a pretty impressive rookie camp & training camp, and Jeremy Bracco's been a healthy scratch for the Marlies' first two games.

The other big consideration is goaltender development. There's only one crease, and about 75 total starts to go around, which doesn't lend itself to being able to develop multiple goalie prospects at once. And since young goalies are such crap shoots, you don't want to be forced to cut bait on one early because you've got no available starts for him.

I also don't think you can take the view that because we've got a good team and a bunch of good prospects, that now we don't have to worry anymore about "stockpiling" prospects. That's got it backwards, actually. Once all the kids are on their hefty contracts, a steady pipeline of good, cheap, NHL-ready young talent will be more critical than ever.

hockeylover
10-08-2017, 06:15 PM
4-3 Marlies so far. Goals by Rychel, Liljegren, B. Smith and Johnsson.


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hockeylover
10-08-2017, 06:41 PM
Game over. Marlies go to 2-0. They should have a great year in front of them as well.


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BeLeafer
10-11-2017, 02:06 PM
Not to be a pimp, but there's a nice article about Grundstrom at the Athletic. It's a really in-depth analysis of his offensive game. https://theathletic.com/123464/2017/10/11/the-gifted-carl-grundstrom-and-the-art-of-getting-pucks-on-net/

hockeylover
10-11-2017, 03:35 PM
Grundstrom is my personal favourite Leafs prospect right now. I think he could play with us right now tbh.


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Jeremy
10-11-2017, 03:50 PM
Grundstrom is the obvious replacement for Komorov next year and might be better and cheaper. Nice to have him.

BeLeafer
10-11-2017, 04:22 PM
Grundstrom is my personal favourite Leafs prospect right now. I think he could play with us right now tbh.


Agree on both counts. Really like his game and he should slide in next year with a nice impact.

LeafGm
10-11-2017, 04:48 PM
I'm not 100% sold on Grundstrom's offensive upside. Whenever a player has a really lopsided goals-to-assists ratio like Grundstrom did last year (16 goals, 4 assists), it raises concerns for me that they don't possess offensive vision that'll translate to the NHL. His production also cratered in the SHL playoffs (1 goal, 1 assist in 14 games).

On the upside, production is production, and his numbers last year were really impressive for an 18/19 year old playing in the SHL. Equally impressive was him jumping directly into the AHL playoffs and producing.

If he can improve his numbers in the SHL this year, and then hit the ground running with the Marlies again once his SHL season is over (SHL regular season ends in early March, playoffs finish in mid-April), then I'll really start to get excited.

hockeylover
10-11-2017, 06:02 PM
I'm not 100% sold on Grundstrom's offensive upside. Whenever a player has a really lopsided goals-to-assists ratio like Grundstrom did last year (16 goals, 4 assists), it raises concerns for me that they don't possess offensive vision that'll translate to the NHL. His production also cratered in the SHL playoffs (1 goal, 1 assist in 14 games).

On the upside, production is production, and his numbers last year were really impressive for an 18/19 year old playing in the SHL. Equally impressive was him jumping directly into the AHL playoffs and producing.

If he can improve his numbers in the SHL this year, and then hit the ground running with the Marlies again once his SHL season is over (SHL regular season ends in early March, playoffs finish in mid-April), then I'll really start to get excited.

I think those concerns are fair but I like him for different reasons. I think he brings enough of the jam that coaches usually fall in love with (and tempts them into playing offensive black holes) while he should still be able to contribute offensively. I suspect he'd fit in nicely on any line which seems like just the kind of player we'll need for cheap going forward.

leafman101
10-11-2017, 06:27 PM
He was 19 playing in the SHL. He had 15 assists in 27 games in the U20 league at 16 and 8 in 8 games in the U18 league at 15. He's definitely more goal scorer than playmaker, but he scored a lot of goals as a teenager in the SHL.

U20 Goals SHL since 1997
1. Peter Forsberg - 39 gp, 23, 0.59 gpg
2. Patric Hornqvist - 49 gp, 23, 0.47 gpg
3. Markus Naslund - 39 gp, 22 , 0.56 gpg
4. Nicklas Jensen - 50 gp, 17 gls - 0.34 gpg
5. Daniel Sedin - 50 gp, 16 gls - 0.32 gpg
5. Alexander Wennberg - 50 gp, 16 - 0.32 gpg
7. Andreas Johnson - 44 gp, 15, 0.34 gpg
8. Jonas Hoglund - 40 gp, 14, 0.35 gpg
8. Carl Grundstrom - 45 gp, 14, 0.31 gpg
10. Nicklas Backstrom - 45 , 12, 0.27 gpg

Maybe he is the next Nik Jensen, but there are a lot of players on that list that could score at the NHL level.

Blueman
10-11-2017, 06:58 PM
He was 19 playing in the SHL. He had 15 assists in 27 games in the U20 league at 16 and 8 in 8 games in the U18 league at 15. He's definitely more goal scorer than playmaker, but he scored a lot of goals as a teenager in the SHL.

U20 Goals SHL since 1997
1. Peter Forsberg - 39 gp, 23, 0.59 gpg
2. Patric Hornqvist - 49 gp, 23, 0.47 gpg
3. Markus Naslund - 39 gp, 22 , 0.56 gpg
4. Nicklas Jensen - 50 gp, 17 gls - 0.34 gpg
5. Daniel Sedin - 50 gp, 16 gls - 0.32 gpg
5. Alexander Wennberg - 50 gp, 16 - 0.32 gpg
7. Andreas Johnson - 44 gp, 15, 0.34 gpg
8. Jonas Hoglund - 40 gp, 14, 0.35 gpg
8. Carl Grundstrom - 45 gp, 14, 0.31 gpg
10. Nicklas Backstrom - 45 , 12, 0.27 gpg

Maybe he is the next Nik Jensen, but there are a lot of players on that list that could score at the NHL level.

He's no jonas hoglund

Deckie007
10-11-2017, 07:43 PM
Johnsson is another guy people are going to love. He's kinda like a Swedish Connor Brown. Guy you can play anywhere in the lineup and he'll be effective.

zeke
10-11-2017, 08:00 PM
assists in europe are weird.

Grundstrom sold me in preseason. he's got the speed, hands, shot, release, and nose for the net to be a scorer, imo. way better than inexpected.

LeafGm
10-11-2017, 08:33 PM
Johnsson is another guy people are going to love. He's kinda like a Swedish Connor Brown. Guy you can play anywhere in the lineup and he'll be effective.
Yeah, I'm a big fan.

I'd lump him in with Leivo & Kapanen as a guy who could easily play in the NHL and make an impact right now.

leafman101
10-15-2017, 11:43 AM
Liljegren with 3 points in his first 4 games for the Marlies.

hockeylover
10-15-2017, 05:58 PM
So good to have this guy in the system.


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Jeremy
10-15-2017, 06:06 PM
Bracco with his first pro point in the Marlies win today.

LeafGm
10-15-2017, 08:16 PM
Here's some prospect news & notes, and updated numbers for all of our prospects:




Our 2016 2nd rounder, Yegor Korshkov, has not had a good start to his KHL season. Through his first 19 games of the season, he had a grand total of 1 goal, 2 assists & 3 points. He's also playing with the same linemates as last year, and getting solid 3rd line minutes, so there's no easy excuse for him there.

Combined with last season's numbers, since returning from his broken leg, Korshkov had two goals and six points in a 34 game stretch. Ouch. But he is starting to show some signs of life. In his last three games, he has three goals & two assists.


Martins Dzierkals is the one mystery man among our prospects at this point. With everybody else, it's known where they're going to spend the season, but Dzierkals was initially assigned to the ECHL, played no games down there, was recalled to the Marlies and has played in none of their five games.


2016 5th rounder Vladimir Bobylev (aka Bobylyov) spent time in camp with the Marlies, but after he was demoted to the ECHL Orlando Solar Bears, he opted for a return to the KHL rather than an ECHL stint.


Despite Babcock's talk about finding one of their goalies somewhere else to play, for now, the Marlies are going ahead with their three-headed goalie platoon. The Marlies played three games in three nights this weekend and Garret Sparks, Calvin Pickard & Kasimir Kaskisuo each started one game.


Jeremy Bracco scored his first professional point today, picking up the lone assist on a Ben Smith goal. They appear to be easing Bracco in to professional hockey. He hasn't been injured, but the games he played this weekend (Friday & Sunday) were his first two games of the season.


Good news and bad news for Pierre Engvall. The good news is that he's graduated to the SHL full-time from the Swedish lower-leagues for the first time in his career. He also has a goal and four points in his first eight games. The bad news is that he broke his clavicle in his last game, and will be out for three months.


Jesper Lindgren's offensive totals aren't particularly impressive, but apparently he is playing top-pairing minutes. This is his first season in the Finnish Liiga, after playing in various levels of Swedish hockey up until this year.


Eemeli Rasanen, the 6'7" right-handed defenseman the Leafs drafted in the 2nd round last year, has started the season with three goals and nine points in nine games, which has him tied for his team's scoring lead. Last season, Rasanen had only six goals and 39 points all season.


Our WHL goalie prospect Ian Scott started the first 41 minutes of his team's season, then appeared to injured his groin (officially termed a "lower body" injury) while making a save. He's been out of the lineup since then, with no real updates available on his condition.


https://i.imgur.com/8nTQrQJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pRkF6ZF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bCVt6yc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rUDeGg3.jpg

hockeylover
10-15-2017, 08:28 PM
Pretty optimistic about Johnsson, Kapanen, Liljegren, Dermott, Rasanen, Grundstrom. Thanks for posting.

Jeremy
10-15-2017, 08:44 PM
Rasanen excites me with his size and skill.

Good post, LGM. Thanks.

Deckie007
10-18-2017, 11:01 PM
l'il Liljegren

Nice play here where he gets stopped on the rush, circles back and makes a beauty pass to gain zone entry

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-media-theathletic-production/app/uploads/2017/10/16164232/TLiljegren1015Pt1.gif

Montana
10-21-2017, 10:53 PM
Got his fourth point in 5 games, today.

MindzEye
10-21-2017, 11:10 PM
With Timmy, Rasanen, and Gordeev all having strong starts to the season, the defensive pipeline is looking pretty strong right now. Dermott is probably NHL ready, and Nielsen is still extremely intriguing (basically a left handed Cody Franson in the making). That's a pretty good group of kids.

Up front we lack high end talent (other than maybe Kappy who I still think can be a 25/25+ type top 6 winger) but have some top 9 type forwards who can play good 2 way games, and have enough skill to play with higher skill forwards (Grundstrom, Johnsson) as well as some high skill lottery tickets (Bracco, Brooks, Tima)

Pickard-Woll-Scott is actally a decent or better goaltending pipeline as well. For how deep the NHL team is in young or prime aged talent, we're positioned really well to add to the group from inside the organization or trade non core types (Brown, Kappy, etc) for impact talent and replace the depth from inside.

zeke
10-22-2017, 12:32 AM
#FreeTimmy

LeafGm
10-22-2017, 12:40 AM
Timmy's assist today:


https://i.imgur.com/12o5qK8.gif


It's continuing to be a hell of an impressive start for him.

LeafOfFaith
10-22-2017, 03:23 AM
**** that’s pretty.

LeafGm
10-23-2017, 08:10 PM
Looks like the Leafs have found a way to get all three of their goalies regular AHL starts in the wake of the Calvin Pickard trade.

They've loaned Kasimir Kaskisuo to the Chicago Wolves, Vegas's AHL affiliate. The Wolves recently lost both their goalie to Vegas, with Fleury & Subban both going down to injury.

LeafOfFaith
10-23-2017, 08:14 PM
Man, that Timmy assist still.

If you look closely, he gets the puck on its edge and fires it over.

That was actually a pretty tough pass to accept and convert like that. Props to Marchment.

zeke
10-28-2017, 11:14 AM
https://twitter.com/sunhornby/status/924293955788865536

Jeremy
10-28-2017, 08:54 PM
James Mirtle
@mirtle
@FriedgeHNIC reporting Leafs will sign Russian defenceman Igor Ozhiganov. Right shot D with CSKA

Jeremy
10-28-2017, 09:03 PM
Pension Plan Puppets
@PPPLeafs
·
13m
More on Ozhiganov. He's behind Nikita Nesterov and Alexey Marchenko on his team now, as well as Mat Robinson, an older import.

Jeremy
10-29-2017, 02:03 PM
Kucherov was trying to get the Lightning to sign Ozhiganov:


Interviewer: Could you persuade Steve Yzerman to take Nikita Gusev to Tampa?

Kucherov: I always say this to the Lightning; not only about Gusev, but about Igor Ozhiganov too. It’s not about our friendship. Both are great players, they could help Tampa to win a Stanley Cup. I wouldn’t have recommended them if they weren’t able to. By the way, I spoke to them about taking their chances in the NHL. It’s an opportunity to play against the best players in the world. We have known each other since childhood, it would be great to win the Stanley Cup together.https://www.rawcharge.com/2017/5/2/15517136/tampa-bay-lightning-nikita-kucherov-russia-gusev-ozhiganov-local-media-andrei-vasilevskiy

hockeylover
11-02-2017, 09:56 AM
Andreas Johnsson had two goals last night in a Marlies win. They are 7-3.

Deckie007
11-04-2017, 02:03 PM
https://twitter.com/FutureOfThe6/status/926804949945630720


Ian Scott is 4-1-0 with an impressive 2.11 GAA and .933 SV% to start off the year for Prince Albert

So that's nice too. Guess the Leafs saw something they liked and he's off to a great start.

BeLeafer
11-04-2017, 03:04 PM
Korshkov has 9 pts in his past 10 games in the KHL. Apparently, a coaching change led to much greater usage and he's responded really well.

BeLeafer
11-04-2017, 03:06 PM
https://twitter.com/FutureOfThe6/status/926804949945630720



So that's nice too. Guess the Leafs saw something they liked and he's off to a great start.

The Leafs so need to pull a goaltending gem out of the draft. Good to see this. Woll seems to be struggling with .897 sv% in 7 games.

number17
11-04-2017, 06:10 PM
Yep, we SO need a Felix Potvin (who doesn't tail off after his first 2 seasons)

LeafGm
11-04-2017, 11:28 PM
https://twitter.com/FutureOfThe6/status/926804949945630720

So that's nice too. Guess the Leafs saw something they liked and he's off to a great start.

The season didn't start off great for Scott. He pulled an abdominal muscle 40 minutes into the first game of the season, and then sat out for an entire month. But he's hit the ground running in his first five games back, which is really nice to see.

Whether you think they're prospects or not, our AHL goalies are doing well too. Surprisingly, Pickard is the worst of the three so far:

Garret Sparks: GP 7, 6-1-0, 1.44 GAA, .943 SV%, 2 SO
Kasimir Kaskisuo: GP 4, 2-2-0, 2.06 GAA, .937 SV%, 1 SO
Calvin Pickard: GP 3, 1-2-0, 3.44 GAA, .892 SV%, 0 SO

In the NCAA, Joseph Woll has been struggling this year, but he did bounce back by posting wins in back to back games this weekend, surrendering only one goal in each game. So, that's bumped his numbers back up closer to respectability. Hopefully he can get it back on the rails, because the US starting goalie job at the WJC's is sitting there waiting for him after his performance as their back up last year.

Joseph Woll: GP 8, 3-4-1, 2.62 GAA, 905 SV%, 0 SO

number17
11-05-2017, 05:25 PM
And goalies are very much a work in progress until their early 20's, sometimes even mid to late 20's. So it's still very early for Woll's development.

Pickard, OTOH, should be posting better stats in the AHL right now

LeafGm
11-05-2017, 09:24 PM
Up-to-date numbers for all our prospects:


https://i.imgur.com/kMGqbtn.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/x3qLldK.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MfQwi2A.jpg

Jeremy
11-05-2017, 09:34 PM
I heard Korshkov has picked it up lately. A good amount of points in the past bunch of games.

BeLeafer
11-06-2017, 02:29 PM
Marchment took player of the week honours. Kid looked great in training camp. I thought he was a darkhorse but never thought he'd put up these kind of numbers even over just 9 games (5 goals, 11 pts).

Could be a blip or could be a late bloomer that fillls the need for a beast who can score.

LeafOfFaith
11-06-2017, 02:46 PM
Why isn't he on LGM's chart?

Deckie007
11-06-2017, 03:02 PM
He's not considered one of our higher end guys. I liked him at the rookie tournament. He was in the ECHL last year, so kinda need to see a bit more

Hoglund14
11-06-2017, 03:16 PM
.

Pickard, OTOH, should be posting better stats in the AHL right now

I tried to warn you guys. He's not that good

BeLeafer
11-06-2017, 04:25 PM
Based on 2 games, we should see the light, eh.

Oh, yeah, Sparks is garbage.

What would we do without these great insights?

LeafGm
11-06-2017, 07:11 PM
Why isn't he on LGM's chart?
What my chart represents is every "prospect" who's rights are owned exclusively by the Toronto Maple Leafs.

So, that would be players signed to NHL contracts, and draft picks who's rights haven't expired yet. I also generally have a cut-off at 24 years of age, because past that point, all you'll find is players like Justin Holl or Ben Smith, who obviously aren't prospects in any real sense of the word.

So, since Marchment is only signed to an AHL deal, and technically he's an unrestricted free agent who's rights aren't owned by any NHL team, he doesn't make the list. But if and when the Leafs sign him to an NHL contract, I'll add him to the list and track him with the rest.

Jeremy
11-16-2017, 11:20 PM
Heard Gord Miller say along the lines today that there have been a bunch of studies that show Euro's who did well in the NHL often spent some time in Europe before coming over. He was talking about this in reference to Liljegren. Have never heard this before.

MindzEye
11-17-2017, 12:45 AM
Timmy spent 18 years in Europe before coming over...so he should be good.

LeafGm
11-17-2017, 07:06 AM
It's funny, I've seen a few people in the media argue that the Leafs are making a mistake by not sending Liljegren back to Sweden. They all talk very generally about how young Swedish players do well when they're given more time to develop at home. And you know what? In general, I think they're right.

But guys like Miller always leave out one of the most important factors in Liljegren's case: his team in the Swedish league is a complete ****ing disaster. Through 17 games, they have four wins, are in last place by a wide margin, and they've been out-scored by a 70-36 margin. So does that sound like a good environment for our 18 year-old top prospect to develop in?

Another thing guys like Miller don't bring up: last year, Liljegren's SHL team did no favours for him or his development by constantly bouncing him around between four different teams in four different leagues. And when he did play in the SHL, they didn't give him much ice-time. So why would the Leafs want to put Timmy's development back into their hands?

zeke
11-17-2017, 07:22 AM
Lilly is off to an incredible start.

rated
11-17-2017, 07:29 AM
Surprised no ones mention he's missed the last 4 games with an injury

leafman101
11-17-2017, 08:22 AM
Liljegren is getting top pair minutes in the AHL this year, including PP time, compared to last year where he played 10 minutes a game and was yo-yo'd between teams and leagues.

To me its not even close which one is preferable for development. Only one option is actually interested in development.

leafman101
11-17-2017, 08:29 AM
5v5 eTOI
1. Rosen - 8 gp, 17.1
2. Liljegren - 9 gp, 15.48
3. Holl - 14 gp, 14.89
4. Neilsen - 12 gp, 14.33
5. Marincin - 10 gp, 14.16
6. Dermott - 14 gp, 11.77
7. Valiev - 8 gp, 11.7
8. LoVerde - 13 gp, 9.61

soco22
11-17-2017, 09:17 AM
Has dermott taken a step back? Surprised by him being #6

leafman101
11-17-2017, 09:24 AM
The AHL doesn't keep track of ice time so no ideal how accurate that actually is. Probably not very. I know he has lost some time to Liljegren and Rosen, particularly on the PP, but not sure its that much ES.

Its also just a good deep D. Rosen, Liljegren Marincin, Dermott maybe even Holl could challenge for an NHL spot.

zeke
11-17-2017, 09:34 AM
I'm pretty sure the Dermott-Liljegren pairing was the top pairing when they were both healthy.

LeafGm
11-17-2017, 09:54 AM
Surprised no ones mention he's missed the last 4 games with an injury
I don't get the impression that it's anything serious.

It seems more like an Auston Matthews "overabundance of caution" type of situation.


I'm pretty sure the Dermott-Liljegren pairing was the top pairing when they were both healthy.
Yep, they were.

BeLeafer
11-17-2017, 11:04 AM
I suspect they may be doing what they are doing with other youngsters. Marchment last year was not played much to work on his fitness and skills. Likewise for Bracco this year. I like the idea of doing this with young guys. Building them up and easing on the play schedule in their first pro year.

LeafGm
11-20-2017, 04:30 PM
Some bad news from across the pond:

Carl Grundstrom is apparently going to undergo knee surgery, and will miss the next 4-6 weeks.

BeLeafer
11-26-2017, 05:54 PM
Sparks continues to sizzle and now has a .946 save percentage through 12 games. He's responded wonderfully to the Pickard trade.

Meanwhile, the Leafs continue to trot out one of the worst backups of the past decade.

Artnes
11-26-2017, 06:38 PM
Pickard with the win and goes above .930 as well. That's a great tandem going on down there

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

leafman101
11-26-2017, 06:52 PM
Yeah, if McElenny keeps struggling they have some depth this year unlike last year. Pickard probably should be in the NHL, and if Sparks keeps playing like this he deserves a shot.

MindzEye
11-26-2017, 07:24 PM
Yeah, I'd really like to be wrong about sparks. He's looked like a loud mess every time I've seen him play. But he's big and athletic so who knows. Goalie skill progression is pure voodoo.

Montana
11-26-2017, 08:52 PM
Given how short Enroths leash was....I'm hopeful we don't have to watch too many more CM starts, before one of Sparks or Pickard gets the call.

Its sin to have them down there producing like they are, while giving away points because you have a ~.900 goalie in net.

BeLeafer
11-27-2017, 04:34 AM
Yeah, I'd really like to be wrong about sparks. He's looked like a loud mess every time I've seen him play. But he's big and athletic so who knows. Goalie skill progression is pure voodoo.

Thing about Sparks is that he's had steady and impressive progression since being a pro outside of the 17 game stretch behind the Matthews tank operation. Taking just his AHL seasons with more than a handful of games, .915 -> .928 -> .922 -> .947. Even without the crazy good stretch this season, those are impressive numbers.

He's the Leafs best goalie prospect (at 24, I still count goalies as prospects) since Felix Potvin. Yet the Leafs have always treated him as second fiddle. They threw him to the wolves in 2015-16, while sheltering Bibeau. I'm really impressed that he's persevered since that trauma and then again when they went out and traded for a guy to slot above him.

BeLeafer
12-02-2017, 06:55 PM
Marlies just snatched a victory from the jaws of defeat with Timashov going end to end to snipe a backhanded OT winner. This guy is starting to put up points. Bracco had a couple in this one too.

LeafGm
12-03-2017, 01:03 AM
I had been starting to get worried about Timashov as a prospect. The 2nd half of his final junior season was unremarkable, and the same goes for his rookie season in the AHL. But the start to his season so far this year is pretty encouraging. Hopefully he continues to creep closer to a PPG pace.

Another guy I've been keeping an eye on is Martins Dzierkals. Instead of going back to the QMJHL for an overage season this year, he signed an AHL deal with the Marlies...and then disappeared into the sports science department for a couple of months. Didn't practice with the Marlies, didn't play in any games.

He's finally resurfaced in the past couple of weeks with the Leafs' ECHL affiliate, the Orlando Solar Bears. And through his first 10 games, he's got 6 goals & 8 points, with a few of those goals being of the highlight-reel variety. I'll be interested to see if he stays in the ECHL, or if they find a way to make room for him on the AHL roster.

BeLeafer
12-03-2017, 05:23 AM
Looks like these mysterious disappearances on the farm are paying off.

leafman101
01-04-2018, 06:47 AM
Darren Dreger
- talked about Joseph Woll and potential of the US World Junior goalie getting an invite to the Olympics. US needs to add two this month.

Todd Crocker
Travis Dermott registered 3 assists in the game vs Laval and now has 13 points in his last 10 games. #Marlies

Artnes
01-04-2018, 07:17 AM
They will reward him soon. Be nice to see him stick once he comes up

Has he cleaned up his penalty issue? For a while earlier in the season he was taking a lot of minors

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

LeafGm
01-04-2018, 09:30 AM
I'm going to keep assuming for the foreseeable future that Roman Polak's job is perfectly safe. But with Marty Marincin looking like an unmitigated disaster in his most recent Leaf stint, and with Carrick failing to really step up and grab hold of a job, I still expect it's only a matter a time before Dermott makes his NHL debut this season.

Hopefully, like Borgman, he sticks once he gets his opportunity.

As for Woll---I was kind of surprised to hear that story about the US considering him for the Olympic team. He really hasn't been having a very good season in the NCAA this year, and you'd have to figure that there are a lot of better candidates. But hopefully he does get to go, as it would be a pretty amazing experience for him.

Wayward DP
01-04-2018, 09:34 AM
Any word on how Rosen has been playing for the Marlies?

I must admit, I was very much unimpressed with him in limited preseason action.

Gotta think Dermott's time is rapidly approaching too.

zeke
01-04-2018, 09:34 AM
Dermott should be called up immediately. Zaitsev's injury is the exact opportunity they've been waiting for.

2 three point games in a row tells us he's back in shape..

13 points in his last 10 tells us he's ready to move up.


so kappy can't get in because we've got too many forwards, fine, but that is much different than cracking our dcorps with an injury in the top 4.

Wayward DP
01-04-2018, 09:54 AM
Him being a LHD may have something to do with it too

zeke
01-04-2018, 10:05 AM
marincin is LHD.

leafman101
01-04-2018, 10:08 AM
Have to think a call up is coming soon. It would have already happened if he wasn't hurt. Yesterday was only his 2nd game back.

Nice to have two high end D prospects killing the AHL. We aren't far away from adding two young, cheap, likely top 4 D.

LeafGm
01-04-2018, 10:18 AM
Any word on how Rosen has been playing for the Marlies?

I must admit, I was very much unimpressed with him in limited preseason action.

Gotta think Dermott's time is rapidly approaching too.
I haven't really been watching the Marlies closely this year, and the AHL doesn't seem to track time-on-ice stats, so I can't really say. He is dressing regularly, at least. But he's not producing many points, and I've heard barely any mention of him all year long from the reporters that cover the Marlies, so it seems like he's not standing out a whole lot down there.

Which is a little concerning for a guy that's a couple of years older than Dermott or Borgman, who already has a few seasons of professional experience under his belt over in Europe. He's sort of in the same boat as Miro Aaltonen. If guys their age, with their level of professional experience can't step in and become impact AHL players in a fairly short amount of time, their chances of becoming useful NHLers for us seem kind of remote.

Still, if you sign three European free agents in one summer, and one of them turns out to be a real solid young player for you, I'm happy with that ratio.

Artnes
01-04-2018, 03:09 PM
Dermott and Kapanen selected as first team all stars

CTheBigPicture
01-06-2018, 11:38 PM
Nielsen really misses Dermott

https://mobile.twitter.com/nicoleburns77/status/949502882386096128

Iknowenuff
01-15-2018, 01:03 AM
I was exceptionally impressed by Dermott. I guess Babcock likes his rookies to be overbaked before they get a shot at the bigs. My take on Babcock, is that he might overthink things too much. I definitely think he doesn't want anyone, from his players, to opponents, to know what is going on in his medium and long term plans. Because I sure am puzzled by some of the things he is doing this year.

My two biggest head scratchers are Dermott and Kapanen. Both skate beautifully, and both can really play. I think our team speed has dropped off this year, and by injecting these two guys into the lineup, imo, would get us back to the speed of last year.

Just my take.

number17
01-15-2018, 09:35 AM
I don't disagree with your points, but I think the reason our team speed has dropped is not because our guys can't skate, or we're not skating hard enough ... i think the reason is we're carrying the puck too much (especially Gardiner, who plays the most ES minutes on most nights) and not making passes in transitional hockey (especially for zone exit and zone entry)

Iknowenuff
01-15-2018, 10:10 AM
Except for Rielly and Freddy, it seems like everyone is having an off year. I don't know what to make of that. Rielly has just been marvelous, makes the games watchable in a lot of cases.

Wayward DP
01-15-2018, 11:17 AM
there's also that Matthews guy...

Iknowenuff
01-15-2018, 11:50 AM
He hasn't been quite as dominant this year imo. But he seems like he has gotten nicely banged up. That hit by Morgan was pretty nasty. Tough luck.

Wayward DP
01-15-2018, 01:00 PM
I would argue that he started the season at a level that exceeded his performance last year. Then he was slowed by his first injury, and didn't look quite himself on his return. Then, post-concussion symptoms, he has been getting back to the level we saw to start the season. Pretty sure the metrics would back that up too.

Or, in other words, when he is healthy, he has been dominant, in ways he was not last season.

Iknowenuff
01-15-2018, 04:33 PM
Barkov apparently said he felt that Matthews was the best player in the league now. Amazing, coming from a truly amazing player himself.

Jeremy
01-15-2018, 06:44 PM
Barkov apparently said he felt that Matthews was the best player in the league now. Amazing, coming from a truly amazing player himself.Volc posted that in the Matthews thread a few weeks ago. Pretty nice compliment.

Iknowenuff
01-16-2018, 10:06 AM
https://youtu.be/wYmCV2RLLEQ I love this kids personality. Just totally jacked to be part of the Maple Leafs organization. Has anyone seen this guy with his shirt off? Its the 2018 version of Tim Horton here imo. I think this kid has a huge upside, and with this type of attitude, the sky is the limit for him. He is being cooked at a low temperature to get ready for the rigours of being a player in the center of the universe of hockey.

Leafs are being run by guys that know the pressures of being in Toronto's unique environment.

But it was ole Burkie, that probably was instrumental in bringing the Marlies to Toronto. A move that is such an edge, in a cap world.

Leafs are paying lots of AHLers, NHL salaries, and the player is living in the same city that he could at any moment be called up to play for.

Kapanen is making some nice money, real nice, and is living in the city, that he could very well be playing for later this year, same for Dermott.

Big advantage.

zeke
01-16-2018, 10:53 AM
you should see his calves, newguy!

Iknowenuff
01-16-2018, 11:36 AM
Lol!! Haven't seen them actually. On spec I would say they probably match the rest of his physique. The way he skates, I imagine they are perfectly proportioned. This is Hunter's best pick overall imo, in terms of having to really pick a diamond out of a pick less than number 17.

In Lilly and Dermott, we have some really nice talent coming up. And Dermott is a tough bugger, he ain't soft and neither is Lilly.

U put a slap shot and a mean streak into Rielly, and you have Bobby Orr btw. But being mean is something that is either there or it isn't I guess.

Volcanologist
01-16-2018, 11:37 AM
heh.

LeafGm
01-16-2018, 11:48 AM
Burke actually didn't have anything to do with Toronto's AHL affiliate relocating from Newfoundland to Toronto.

The Marlies' inaugural season was back in 2005/06, which was about three years before Burke came to Toronto.

So, that's a rare excellent decision that we can credit to the John Ferguson Jr regime.

Iknowenuff
01-16-2018, 03:42 PM
Guess there is a lesson to that. Each regime, obviously have some insights. Moving the Marlies to Toronto was a great move.

Deckie007
01-17-2018, 01:59 PM
Pronman's top 50

13. Timothy Liljegren, D, Toronto

Age: 18 | Height: 6-foot | Weight:192 pounds

Drafted: First round, 17th overall in 2017

2017-18 team: Toronto Marlies

After a disastrous 2016-17 season, first contracting mono and then performing poorly internationally, Liljegren has rebounded well in 2017-18. He’s played well for the Marlies in the AHL, and he was solid at the world juniors. Is he all the way back to being considered an elite talent like he was two years ago? I’m not there yet. I have concerns regarding his defense/turnovers, but they’re much more minor than I thought going into the draft. I see a highly creative defenseman with great offensive instincts, shifty feet and someone who makes unique plays around the puck due to how well he thinks the game offensively. His defense has shown enough improvement, as well, to where I think he’ll be able to handle himself at even strength at the top level.

15. Kasperi Kapanen, RW, Toronto

Age: 21 | Height: 6-foot | Weight:181 pounds

Drafted: First round, 22nd overall in 2014 by Pittsburgh

2017-18 team: Toronto Marlies

There is a lot to like about Kapanen. When you see him play, his high-level ability stands out immediately. He’s a fantastic skater who can play a skill game and push the pace at even strength. He can dominate a shift and be a difference maker in a game with his playmaking. He’s right on the cusp of being a regular due to a logjam on the wing in Toronto. He has made significant improvements to his defensive game. Just getting him to be a tad more consistent and stronger in battles off the puck will likely push him over the edge into being a good NHL player.

49. Jeremy Bracco, RW, Toronto

Age: 20 | Height: 5-foot-9 | Weight:181 pounds

Drafted: Second round, 61st overall in 2015

2017-18 team: Toronto Marlies

Bracco started the season with a focus on his off-ice conditioning and strength, and as a result, he didn't play a ton to start his first pro season. With notable progress in that area in the past month or so though since he’s been getting regular playing time, he’s looked very impressive. His brain stands out, as he’s a fantastic playmaker, and with his unique skating stride, he also stands out whenever he’s near the puck. Bracco needs to continue to be better off the puck and get stronger, and I’d like to see him score a bit more, but I really like his upside.

Wayward DP
01-17-2018, 02:14 PM
Our forward corps could really use a guy like Kapanen right now...

Deckie007
01-17-2018, 02:19 PM
It's nice to see Bracco on that list. I've always been bullish on him.

zeke
01-17-2018, 02:39 PM
I was just gonna say he doesn't deserve to be there.

Deckie007
01-17-2018, 02:57 PM
I was just gonna say he doesn't deserve to be there.Pronman is huge on upside and hockey sense. He's been a high guy on Bracco for a while so not surprised he's on the list.

Wayward DP
01-17-2018, 02:58 PM
I was just gonna say he doesn't deserve to be there.

I'm with zeke on this one. Don't think Bracco will every amount to much. But I'd love to be wrong.

zeke
01-17-2018, 03:03 PM
Pronman is huge on upside and hockey sense. He's been a high guy on Bracco for a while so not surprised he's on the list.

yeah but for an all-offense prospect he simply doesn't produce enough for me.

LeafGm
01-17-2018, 03:11 PM
yeah but for an all-offense prospect he simply doesn't produce enough for me.
Yeah, his production in his draft+1 season was nice, but not huge.

And then he fell right off the map in the second half of his draft+2 season, producing 10 goals & 37 points in 37 games after being traded to Windsor for their Memorial Cup run. If he'd come out guns blazing to start his AHL career, that would have reassured me somewhat, but as it is he seems like a pretty long shot to become any kind of useful contributor at the NHL level.

Iknowenuff
01-17-2018, 03:17 PM
What did Kapanen do to Babcock, to not be up on the team? Or? Heheh, NOT do? I mean all the kid does is fly on blades, check, score etc.... Seems to me, we could use some of that, and he is sorta big now, and uses it in the corners.

Wayward DP
01-17-2018, 03:49 PM
What did Kapanen do to Babcock, to not be up on the team? Or? Heheh, NOT do? I mean all the kid does is fly on blades, check, score etc.... Seems to me, we could use some of that, and he is sorta big now, and uses it in the corners.

I think there have long been concerns with his consistency. I'm not sure if it has improved or still remains an issue.

That, and he is waiver exempt.

Deckie007
01-17-2018, 04:19 PM
Yeah, his production in his draft+1 season was nice, but not huge.

And then he fell right off the map in the second half of his draft+2 season, producing 10 goals & 37 points in 37 games after being traded to Windsor for their Memorial Cup run. If he'd come out guns blazing to start his AHL career, that would have reassured me somewhat, but as it is he seems like a pretty long shot to become any kind of useful contributor at the NHL level.Leafs are hiding kids in their strength and conditioning program before they hit the ice as pros. So it's hard to make much out of his production so far. I'm high on him. Hockey sense is huge to me and he's got it offensively. I think if paired with the right linemates, he'll produce.

Volcanologist
01-17-2018, 04:54 PM
he may bust but I still like the Bracco pick. always draft for skill.

Iknowenuff
01-17-2018, 10:27 PM
Waiver exempt, yeah I forgot about that... Oh well, he still gets to live in Toronto.

number17
01-17-2018, 10:46 PM
It's kindda interesting that according to Pronman, our top 3 prospects are Liljegren, Bracco and Kapanen.

Is Dermot not on the list because he's with the Leafs when he released the result (and hence not a 'prospect'?) ... I'd think Dermot is a better prospect than Bracco and even Kapanen, in terms of NHL potential and NHL readiness.

I also think Grundstrom is a lot more NHL-ready than Bracco but I guess if you're talking about ceiling, then Bracco is arguably higher. Though I'm VERY skeptical how likely he is to make the NHL, even when he's "playing better" as of late according to Pronman, he still doesn't put up the kind of AHL stats that you'd expect a top 6 offensive player would put up ... and numbers aside, having watched Bracco play in person for a few games, plus watching him play in the WJHC tournament ... he really doesn't catch your attention.

LeafGm
01-17-2018, 10:51 PM
Kapanen's just caught in a numbers game. Babcock won't move Nylander to center, Leo Komarov is his favourite hockey player, he also loves Hyman & Brown, and Marleau, JVR & Marner obviously aren't coming out of the lineup. And then Babcock also thinks we need a face-puncher, and Matt Martin is better at punching faces than Kapanen.

So, even aside from being waiver-exempt unlike Leivo & Soshnikov, you'd rather he play in the AHL than watch Leaf games from the press box.

LeafGm
01-17-2018, 10:55 PM
Leafs are hiding kids in their strength and conditioning program before they hit the ice as pros. So it's hard to make much out of his production so far. I'm high on him. Hockey sense is huge to me and he's got it offensively. I think if paired with the right linemates, he'll produce.
Yeah, considering all the off-ice work they've been doing with him, and the way they've eased him into AHL action, I don't really hold his AHL production against him. It's his lack of production in his last season of junior that concerns me, and that concern would have been lessened if he'd gotten off to an unexpectedly good start in the AHL.



he may bust but I still like the Bracco pick. always draft for skill.
Yeah, I'll never criticize that draft strategy.

I'd rather draft 10 skill guys and hit on one of them than draft 10 muckers and hit on most of them.

Deckie007
01-17-2018, 10:59 PM
Yeah, considering all the off-ice work they've been doing with him, and the way they've eased him into AHL action, I don't really hold his AHL production against him. It's his lack of production in his last season of junior that concerns me, and that concern would have been lessened if he'd gotten off to an unexpectedly good start in the AHL.


I think I mentioned this last year, but after he was traded he never seemed to find the chemistry in Windsor that he had in Kitchener with Mascherin. They were lighting it up in the first half of the season and just never seemed to click with anyone in Windsor after they made all their big trades for their Memorial Cup run.

zeke
01-18-2018, 12:07 AM
drafting for skill is one thing, but skill without production is useless.

and yeah #17 i agree that obviously dermott is a far better prospect than bracco. and so is grundstrom. and sparks. and johnsson. and rasanen. and probably some others.

Iknowenuff
01-18-2018, 09:35 AM
Grundstrom and Korschkov have me excited, as well as Kapanen, up front. Bracco? Has a certain something, and its not just a great last name.
He is very strong on his skates.

I wanted Barzal in 2015, I didn't think he would be this good this fast, but my theory is, if you draft small, draft small in height, but big in body. Barzal is built like a short bear.

I like Marner, quite a bit, but he is a project in terms of building an NHL body still.

Believe it or not, Bracco has been lazy in working out up till recently, according to the media, but lower body? More Barzal than Marner. SO, my hope for Bracco, is that he becomes a gym beast, develops the upper body, and hey, maybe he can play in the show.

Second rounders and further down the draft usually have something against them, if they recognize their weaknesses and build them into strengths, those guys can become players and in rare cases, stars.

Zeke is right, production is production. Late bloomers have to literally jump into a new level phsyically and mentally, to break out of their mean average production level. It is very, very rare.

leafman101
01-18-2018, 09:41 AM
Bracco scored 1.46 ppg in his last year in junior, plus 8 pts in 4 games at the Memorial Cup. That after a 1.2+ ppg post draft year and one of the better USNDTP U18 season ever.

There was no lack of junior production from Bracco.

And he has 8 points in his last 12 games as a 20 year old AHL rookie, after starting off with 2 points in his first 10 games.

Hoglund14
01-18-2018, 09:52 AM
drafting for skill is one thing, but skill without production is useless.

and yeah #17 i agree that obviously dermott is a far better prospect than bracco. and so is grundstrom. and sparks. and johnsson. and rasanen. and probably some others.
Tbh even Kapanen was too high for me. I don't think him and Dermott are separated by much as prospects. His justification of not including Dermott is that he doesn't buy the hype since he is not dynamic enough to be a top pair d. I don't think anyone said he will be though... He's pretty safe to be a second pair d much like Kapanen is safe to he a second line winger. I don't think it's likely that either are first line studs but that doesn't mean Dermott shouldn't be in the top fifty...

zeke
01-18-2018, 09:53 AM
i thought he said dermott was left off because he was on the leafs roster?

i don't think kappy is too high at all. his skillset and production and draft position all justify that rank.

Hoglund14
01-18-2018, 10:08 AM
i thought he said dermott was left off because he was on the leafs roster?

i don't think kappy is too high at all. his skillset and production and draft position all justify that rank.

Nah he said he has a preconceived bias towards forwards over d and that he feels Dermott isn't dynamic enough to have anything more than second pair upside.

As for Kapanen, I agree his upside is a bit higher than dermott's but I wouldn't bet on him emerging as a true 60+ point guy or anything. He'll be valuable though and really should be playing over about four possession killing forwards they have on the roster currently (brown, Martin, Komarov, hyman). Playing with those four is pretty much like being shorthanded. Watch Nylander when he has the puck, he sees hyman and looks him off because you can't even pass to the guy. He can't ****ing accept an NHL pass without immediately turning it over. It's ridiculous.

LeafGm
01-18-2018, 10:25 AM
Bracco scored 1.46 ppg in his last year in junior, plus 8 pts in 4 games at the Memorial Cup. That after a 1.2+ ppg post draft year and one of the better USNDTP U18 season ever.

There was no lack of junior production from Bracco.

And he has 8 points in his last 12 games as a 20 year old AHL rookie, after starting off with 2 points in his first 10 games.
Well yeah, there was. For more than half of his draft+2 season, he scored at only a 22-goal, 1.00PPG pace.

I mean, overall his numbers were OK, based on 17 goals & 51 points he scored in his first 27 games with Kitchener (which also included a team-record consecutive points streak of 26 games). But for the majority of his draft+2 season, he didn't produce anywhere close to what you'd expect from a player with legitimate offensive upside at the NHL level.

And like zeke mentioned, that's not encouraging for a guy who isn't going to be an NHL player on the basis of anything other than his offensive skill.

Hoglund14
01-18-2018, 10:28 AM
Yeah pronman has always had a weird thing for Bracco but I don't really get it.

Deckie007
01-18-2018, 10:46 AM
Dude averaged 1.9 ppg before he got moved to Windsor last year. He was wrecking it in the games he played in Kitchener. 129 points in 85 games (1.52 ppg). That's the sample I most care about, not the 37 in 37 in Windsor. I'm not sure where that ranked him in post draft production in the OHL, but I'd have to assume it's fairly high.

zeke
01-18-2018, 10:53 AM
Age 19 junior (incl playoffs)

Wellwood 1.78
Brown 1.78
Kadri 1.77
Boyes 1.74
Brooks 1.70
Stajan 1.67

Williams 1.43
Didomenico 1.42
Bracco 1.38
Timashov 1 37
McKegg 1.33
D'Amigo 1.32

Verhaege 1.22
Leivo 1.16
Ross 1.16
Mitchell 1.15
Champagne 1.14


if bracco had something more than just pure offense in his game, then that number might make him interestng. but for an all offense prospect i just don't think it's good enough.

Iknowenuff
01-19-2018, 12:34 AM
Not one of the above players can hold a candle to Bracco in terms of edge work. I am not a huge fan of his, but he might have enough skating skills, to open up space that he might get a sniff with another organization. I think Marner alone has made it certain no more smurfs will play under Babcock.

zeke
01-19-2018, 02:06 PM
Brown and Marner swap lines in practice.

Rielly not practising.

zeke
01-19-2018, 02:09 PM
Borgman in Rielly's spot. Might indicate that Rielly's injury not serious, then again, with no MO, the pairing options are.....limited.

where the hell is zaitsev?

Volcanologist
01-19-2018, 02:18 PM
zaitsev gets the boot removed next week. so your guess is as good as mine.

LeafGm
01-20-2018, 11:38 AM
From last night's Marlies win, an example of Kapanen's speed being just unfair in the AHL:



https://i.imgur.com/3mdZb5i.gif

Iknowenuff
01-20-2018, 02:36 PM
Lets bring him up, and bring Sheldon along with him. LOL.

Artnes
01-20-2018, 04:27 PM
I remember when everyone was on the Eakins train (myself included) and look how well that went

Keefe is doing great job but he also has a boat load of talent to work with

Some of Babs decisions are questionable but find me a coach in the league that doesn't have his favorite go to plugs

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Jeremy
01-20-2018, 06:56 PM
I remember when everyone was on the Eakins train (myself included) and look how well that went

Keefe is doing great job but he also has a boat load of talent to work with

Some of Babs decisions are questionable but find me a coach in the league that doesn't have his favorite go to plugs
He's a good coach. Let's see how things go.

leaffan2005
01-20-2018, 07:26 PM
I remember when everyone was on the Eakins train (myself included) and look how well that went

Keefe is doing great job but he also has a boat load of talent to work with

Some of Babs decisions are questionable but find me a coach in the league that doesn't have his favorite go to plugs

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No coach uses his top players as little as Babs. This is not even arguable at this point.

Other coaches may like their plugs too, but they don't tend to take it to this extreme, especially in the face of the team playing shitty hockey for 1.5 months now.

Artnes
01-20-2018, 08:07 PM
Show your work

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mbow30
01-21-2018, 02:38 AM
They need to see what they have in Johnson. He’s waiver eligible next season.

MindzEye
01-21-2018, 02:44 AM
They need to see what they have in Johnson. He’s waiver eligible next season.

Agreed, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he turned into a solid middle 6 winger. He has those modern NHL tools. Chippy and quick, good hands around the net, natural goal scoring instincts, enough skill to play with better players, good engine.

Iknowenuff
01-21-2018, 11:47 AM
They have a smurf in Johnson. Unfortunately. Great player. But we need some big guys with small guy skills. That can get a puck out of a scrum.
IMO

Funny how a lot of people laughed at Boston, saying Neely was a moron(I read that over on HF boards not here). Those people have to be chewing on some spew right about now. If anyone watched Cam Neely play, I don't see how they could deduce that the guy is a moron. He was a phenomenal player. Same with Joe Sakic.

Both their teams are looking great, and I am happy for them. Great players.

I bet Babcock was an okay player, but I bet he couldn't skate.

Another great player, Yzerman, his team isn't too bad either.

I want Grundstrom, Korschov and Kapanen on this team. And Lilly. Then, we kick some permanent ass.

mbow30
01-21-2018, 01:58 PM
meh, marner and brown are better than jvr and goat at digging out pucks. johnsson has a real solid build. strong lower half like sid.

i agree, you need some size in your lineup, but i wouldn't worry too much about that just yet.

zeke
01-21-2018, 02:14 PM
i dunno if he's any better than, say, sosh.

mbow30
01-21-2018, 02:21 PM
not saying his game will necssarily translate to the nhl, but he's a better skater, faster, and has better hands and hockey sense than sosh. they aren't remotely comparable players.

mbow30
01-21-2018, 02:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX2It1oKGIY

some of those give and goes... sosh can't do that stuff.

he sees seams and gets into them quickly, and because he's so strong on the puck is able to play and score in tight spaces and under pressure (though that's the part of his game i worry won't translate).

sosh is a good skater and has a good shot, but he can't handle the puck or play under pressure like that.

johnsson looks like a guy who could play on the pp and pop 25 goals.

LeafGm
01-21-2018, 02:31 PM
I definitely want to see what we have in Johnsson at the NHL level. As a younger prospect, he put up good numbers for a player his age in the SHL, and he steadily improved from each season to the next. And then after an OK offensive debut in the AHL last year, he's gone from a 20-goal, 50-point pace to a 40-goal, 65-point pace this season.

And while he's not tall, he's not physically built like Marner or Bracco. The guy's actually pretty jacked.

As for the Soshnikov comparison, Soshnikov is actually a full year older than Johnsson, and he's never showed the same kind of offensive upside as Johnsson has in both the SHL & AHL. Not to mention that Soshnikov also seems to be completely incapable of staying healthy.

MindzEye
01-21-2018, 02:56 PM
i dunno if he's any better than, say, sosh.

Well, he has been better at every common level they've played at, a year younger than Sosh. So there's that.

soco22
01-31-2018, 08:14 PM
Has anyone been watching the Marlies at all? Sad, can’t catch them from Asia, wouldn’t mind seeing how some of the kids are performing

number17
02-01-2018, 11:20 AM
i dunno if he's any better than, say, sosh.Even if he is just Sosh II (and I happen to think he has higher ceiling offensively), there is nothing wrong with Sosh as a bottom 6, except he keeps getting injured.

So if he's a healthy Sosh II, I think he easily makes the 4th line.

Wayward DP
02-01-2018, 11:31 AM
I think Sosh is pretty useless. Dude cannot pass.

LeafGm
02-01-2018, 01:51 PM
Has anyone been watching the Marlies at all? Sad, can’t catch them from Asia, wouldn’t mind seeing how some of the kids are performing
I wish I could see more of their games, but besides going down to Ricoh, I don't have many more options living in Toronto than you do in Asia.

Unfortunately, the only option to reliably stream their games is to buy the AHL's overpriced league-wide streaming package. And most of the time, the AHL's online streams are a simulcast from the in-arena scoreboard, and the games look liked they're being filmed on a potato.

It'd be nice if the Leafs themselves could at least stream the games in Toronto at somewhat decent levels of video quality.



I think Sosh is pretty useless. Dude cannot pass.
Sosh was an easy player to like right off the hop, since he plays such a hard, in-your-face style, and got off to a quick start offensively (2 goals, 5 points in his first 11 game stint with the Leafs). But it's unfortunately become apparent that he's lacking NHL-level offensive skill & hockey IQ, and that injury-wise he's made out of glass.

Which is sort of a problem for a guy who needs to play a prime-Komarov type of game to set himself apart at all in the NHL.

I strongly suspect Sosh won't be getting a qualifying offer when his ELC's up at the end of this season.

Wayward DP
02-01-2018, 02:22 PM
yeah as free wallets go, can't complain. but he has been passed by too many others on our depth chart, and his upside is too limited.

Iknowenuff
02-01-2018, 03:43 PM
I llike him but his body is so frail

MindzEye
02-01-2018, 04:19 PM
No hockey IQ.

Like his ability to skate with the puck, and love the release when he has space. But not smart enough to know where to be and when to make the best use of those tools.

and yeah, that he can't stay healthy while needing to be something of a grinder doesn't add points either.

Hoglund14
02-01-2018, 04:20 PM
Tunnel vision, weak, slow shot release. I see nothing there personally. I'm surprised they're still hanging on to him.

Volcanologist
02-01-2018, 04:25 PM
never liked Soshnikov. doesn't have the skill to fit in this lineup.

Deckie007
02-01-2018, 05:21 PM
Looked better when the team was shit.

LeafOfFaith
02-01-2018, 11:49 PM
I like Sosh. I think he can be a good player somewhere.

Probably no room for him here.

Artnes
02-03-2018, 10:38 AM
Johnnson with back to back 3 pts nights

21g 14a in 40 gms. Won't be much longer before he gets a look

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Iknowenuff
02-03-2018, 10:54 AM
Everything is clicking all of a sudden, now that best lineups are being posted on the parent team. Do you think AHLers are encouraged when they see Travis Dermott and Justin Holl and Andreas Johnsson playing behind Roman Polak? And Matt Martin?

Players are if possible, even smarter than us bloggers.

Whoever hit Babcock over the head, don't let up, he strikes me as one incredibly stubborn son a B. Now? He like many egocentrics is sort of making this out as a grand plan. Whatever Mike, just be like Gibber and put out the best players you moron.

And treat them well. Gibber=Gerard Gallant imo.

Guess what Mike. Put out Kapanen and Dermott and you have literally exploded team speed. Get that Mike? Put back in Polak and Martin and you get dummy of the year award again.

How Shanahan puts up with this goof is beyond me.

Is it a Saskatchewan thing to destroy english every day, GUD instead of well? I mean the guy makes six milion bucks, and doesn't understand he is a language butcher?

I just don't like the guy. The Gibber wouldn't terrorize lineups this way. One reason why I will still attend Jays games? Cause the Gibber is at the helm. He will put out the best players.

And if you are sitting behind the players bench, he won't swear up a storm and terrorize your children and have them asking you why the coach swears so much.

I think Mark Hunter would be a better coach btw. I think players would really respect a guy who was a very good player in the NHL instead of a poser who played Canadian University hockey.

I don't know the inside scoop, but I really doubt this was a master plan, I think Lou or Shanny put their foot down. Shanahan especially seems like a guy who stays in touch with social media. And Polak and Martin weren't popular topics.

LeafOfFaith
02-03-2018, 10:56 AM
But at least we’re doing something productive and worthwhile.

Iknowenuff
02-03-2018, 11:07 AM
We are.... But Babcock, could reverse unless you stay on him. Does anyone believe these lineup changes were of his making? If so, my rant is ill founded. I think we have corporatge people and management that know Travis Dermott and Kasperi Kapanen are far far better than Matt Martin and Roman Polak.

Heck a grade schooler can see that. But I don't think the GUD coach can and he needs to be schooled.

MindzEye
02-03-2018, 02:58 PM
Johnnson with back to back 3 pts nights

21g 14a in 40 gms. Won't be much longer before he gets a look

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Beauty. He has the pace and ability to play heavy (for a little guy) that Babcock will love on his 4th line. Also has the skill and hands to play up the lineup.

Reminds me of the Rust's, Sheary's, etc that Pittsburgh pulled out of a hat right before they went back to back. Little guys with skill, pace and some sandpaper.

yes please.

Iknowenuff
02-04-2018, 12:49 AM
Greqt point MindZ. I witnessed five minutes of the Pens game. WOW, the Pens are on fire right now. I would trade their coach for Babcock and give them a first pick. that man is a smart GIBBER. Best coach in the NHL by far.

He should dial them down, they looked like they could play and beat anyone tonight and carry the Stanley Cup on their backs.

Malkin AND Crosby? That is unfair.

Artnes
02-10-2018, 06:18 PM
Johnsson continues his point streak today. 5g 7a in his last 6gp



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BeLeafer
02-10-2018, 06:25 PM
Guy is so ready for a promotion. TDL can't come soon enough to clear out some dead wood.

Jeremy
02-10-2018, 07:12 PM
Hey LGM, missing your prospect update posts!

leafman101
02-11-2018, 11:20 AM
After a slow start, Bracco has 15 points in his last 17 games.

CTheBigPicture
02-12-2018, 04:26 AM
Borgman returned last night. Had a goal too.

BeLeafer
02-12-2018, 09:20 AM
Good stuff. That head looks like it would do better than average at withstanding the impact of an elbow.

Iknowenuff
02-12-2018, 06:45 PM
Lol with BeLeafer.

BeLeafer
02-12-2018, 07:17 PM
I speak from experience. I once had a linebacker break his fist on my forehead and didn't fall down.

Iknowenuff
02-13-2018, 08:58 PM
That is quite an admission. Might be brought up again around Stanley Cup madness time.

BeLeafer
02-13-2018, 09:48 PM
Admission? I'm proud. Have the scar to show off too.

Artnes
02-13-2018, 09:51 PM
Were you smart enough to drop your forehead as he was punching or did he just have poor aim?

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BeLeafer
02-13-2018, 09:53 PM
Caught me at the top. We were both stinking drunk. It was 30 years ago. Memory a bit foggy.

Blueman
02-13-2018, 09:55 PM
Caught me at the top. We were both stinking drunk. It was 30 years ago. Memory a bit foggy.

Are you sure it wasn’t your fist?

Iknowenuff
02-13-2018, 10:36 PM
hahahah, post more Beleafer, you are one of the smartest men I have ever come across. Post more. Its safe now bro, us older guys, are actually looking at a real freaking hockey team. The Shanahan rope a dope has pretty much ended and they have injected a top four dman and a top nine, top six guy into the lineup. Post away.

BeLeafer
02-14-2018, 04:06 AM
Might be smarter if I didn't take that 10-stitch shot to my head.

Easier to post now that the Leafs aren't a shitshow. In fact, it sure feels like they're building the model NHL franchise. Really confident that they won't do the old lurch for the missing piece at the first whiff of them having a good team. Keep that pipeline filled and groom away.

zeke
02-14-2018, 09:23 AM
name a cup winner that didn't lurch.

BeLeafer
02-14-2018, 12:53 PM
Name one that has.

Iknowenuff
02-14-2018, 01:04 PM
If there is a lurch, I don't want it to involve Liljegren. He has a lot to work with naturally. All he needs now is to start training his stick like Auston.

LeafGm
02-14-2018, 01:18 PM
Name one that has.
Probably the last Cup winner that did it was Los Angeles, when they acquired Mike Richards and Jeff Carter prior to winning their first Cup.

And the last team to win the Cup after spending big on rentals was Carolina, back in 2006.

It's certainly the exception, rather than the rule.

BeLeafer
02-14-2018, 01:22 PM
Probably the last Cup winner that did it was Los Angeles, when they acquired Mike Richards and Jeff Carter prior to winning their first Cup.

And the last team to win the Cup after spending big on rentals was Carolina, back in 2006.

It's certainly the exception, rather than the rule.

Yep, it terms of TDL rentals those two stand.

However, find me one that only recently started a rebuild and then went on to win by finding their one missing piece, let alone at the TDL.

LeafGm
02-14-2018, 02:06 PM
Yep, it terms of TDL rentals those two stand.

However, find me one that only recently started a rebuild and then went on to win by finding their one missing piece, let alone at the TDL.
LA probably is the closest thing to it. You could argue that Carter was the piece that pushed them over the top, and he was a TDL acquisition.

But they were probably a good 2-3 years farther along into their rebuild at that point than Toronto currently is.

leafman101
02-14-2018, 02:16 PM
Yeah, trade deadline rentals are not great business. But I think zeke is referring to going outside the organization for long term help.

Chicago signed Hossa and Campbell
LA traded for Carter and Richards (Schenn, Johnson and a couple picks)
Pens traded for Kessel (Kapanen, 1st)
Boston signed Chara
Anaheim signed Niedermayer and Selanne and traded for Pronger (Lupul, Smid and 1st)

Basically all cup winners have gone outside the organization to obtain the "final piece". The Leafs shouldn't be trading futures for Nash or Green at the deadline. But if an opportunity to get an elite, player in their prime like Tavares, McDonagh, Karlsson, Doughty, OEL etc is out there over the next year or so, it would be a prudent move to go big.

Iknowenuff
02-14-2018, 02:45 PM
Hope that team never makes the playoffs. Horrible style, grind and pound.

BeLeafer
02-14-2018, 03:09 PM
Nobody is arguing that you don't go outside the organization. What you'll find in virtually all instances is championship teams first get a proper gauge on what they have and their needs before making a move to fill holes.

There are a pile of question marks around this team that will be answered, in part, by a playoff run. First, are they actually good enough to win a round or two? Can Freddy put in a solid series performance? How good are Rielly, Zaitsev, Dermott, et al when under playoff series pressure? Which forwards perform well in these circumstances? What weaknesses do other teams exploit in a series? It goes on and on. You've gotta battle test these guys before you can identify the big needs.

zeke
02-14-2018, 03:30 PM
Name one that has.

Pens made a huge deadline deal for Hossa after losing in the first round the year before. It got them to the finals. Made more big deals the next year for the likes of kunitz, guerin, gill, etc.

Kings traded for Richards and Carter and others before having any real playoff success.

Pretty sure the same can be said for most any cup winner.

zeke
02-14-2018, 03:32 PM
Penguins Trade additions leading up to 1st cup:

M.Hossa + P.Dupuis --- cost Pens 18yr old 1st round pick A.Esposito, 1st round pick in 2008, 25yr old 1st round pick C.Armstrong, and 24yr old 3rd round pick E.Christensen
C.Kunitz --- cost the Pens their 24yr old top-10 scoring top-5 pick dman R.Whitney
G.Roberts -- cost the Penst their 24yr old 2nd round pick N.Welch
H.Gill ------- cost the Pens a 2nd and 5th round picks
N.Ekman --- cost the Pens a 2nd round pick
G.Laraque -- Cost the pens a 3rd round pick and 21yr old 3rd round pick D.Carcillo
B.Guerin --- cost the Pens a 3rd round pick
D.Moore --- cost the Pens a 3rd round pick
J.Kwiatowski -- cost the Pens a 4th round pick

leafman101
02-14-2018, 03:33 PM
Yeah I guess. But we don't need a conference final run to know that the Leafs need another high end defensman and a player Karlsson, OEL, McDonagh, Duoghty would significantly improve the team. You see the list of defenseman that may potentially move within the next year or so, and it would be a shame to miss out because you want to see a playoff run first.

I don't see many question marks on the team honestly. We have an elite center, and a good checking center. We have high end scoring wingers. We have a top goalie. We have a top pairing dmen.

You can always improve the depth, but IMO its pretty clear the biggest need is another high end defenseman.

BeLeafer
02-14-2018, 03:41 PM
Pens made a huge deadline deal for Hossa after losing in the first round the year before. It got them to the finals. Made more big deals the next year for the likes of kunitz, guerin, gill, etc.

Kings traded for Richards and Carter and others before having any real playoff success.

Pretty sure the same can be said for most any cup winner.

Not one that did it any sooner than the third year of their elite asset draft acquisitions. They all tested these teams before making such acquisitions. Patience, grasshopper.

leafman101
02-14-2018, 03:48 PM
Arguably the Leafs already started making these types of deals by trading significant futures for Andersen and signing Marleau/Hainsey.

You progress as the opportunities presents themselves. Its not like there is one magic move that will bring a Cup once they reach a certain point. The team just needs to keep trying to improve.

zeke
02-14-2018, 03:51 PM
Blackhawks trade leading up to first cup:

M.Havlat -- 25yr old 1st rounder M.Bell + a 2nd rounder + 21yr old 2nd rounder M.Barinka
S.Pahlsson -24yr old dman J.Wisniewski
N.Leddy + K.Johnsson - 23yr old top-5 pick C.Barker
P.Sharp --- cost a 3rd round pick
J.Williams - cost a 3rd round pick
R.Vrbata --- cost 2 4th rounders

Hoglund14
02-14-2018, 04:09 PM
I do think Lilly is a terrific trade chip and I wouldn't give two ****s if they used him in a package to grab an elite rhd. They just better pick the right player to acquire though because that could look bad in a hurry. It's a make or break kind of trade. I don't know who that player would be (in truth I'm wouldn't be 100% sold on anyone they'd get) but if they do it they better get it right.


Because yeah.. an elite #1 rhd puts them as a real cup threat for the next few years at least.

BeLeafer
02-14-2018, 04:29 PM
Blackhawks trade leading up to first cup:

M.Havlat -- 25yr old 1st rounder M.Bell + a 2nd rounder + 21yr old 2nd rounder M.Barinka
S.Pahlsson -24yr old dman J.Wisniewski
N.Leddy + K.Johnsson - 23yr old top-5 pick C.Barker
P.Sharp --- cost a 3rd round pick
J.Williams - cost a 3rd round pick
R.Vrbata --- cost 2 4th rounders

:lol

Iknowenuff
02-14-2018, 04:40 PM
Well I certainly would give three shits if they traded the kid.

zeke
02-14-2018, 05:30 PM
Kings Trades leading up to 1st cup:

J.Carter --- 24yr old 3rd overall pick J.Johnson + 1st rounder
M.Richards -- 20yr old 5th overall pick B.Schenn, 22yr old 2nd rounder W.Simmonds, + 2nd rounder
D.Penner - 1st rounder + 19yr old 1st rounder C.Teubert + 3rd rounder
J.Williams --- 2nd rounder + 23yr old 2nd rounder P.O'Sullivan,
R.Smyth --- 24yr old dman K.Quincey, 5th rounder
B.Richardson -- 2nd rounder

number17
02-16-2018, 01:05 PM
Speaking of Liljegren, how is he being used on the Marlies these days? And who is he paired with?

Since AHL stats is so limited, I don't know if he's being used as 1st unit, 2nd unit or 3rd unit D.

I see that he's not picking up a lot of points but offense should not be a problem for him down the road. If he's being developed on his defensive game and is playing heavy minutes vs good competition, then that is an encouraging news despite he's not picking up points right now.

Iknowenuff
02-16-2018, 04:01 PM
The kid is just a kid. but from what I have seen is this..... He has the ability to thrust , out of his dzone, like no one I have seen since Karlsson. To trade him? Phew, better be real good.

Leafin'
02-16-2018, 07:13 PM
Our equivalent package for an elite player will likely look like Kapanen/Brown + Liljegren + 1st rounder. Thats a damn steep price to pay. I wouldn't be paying that unless i'm getting someone youngish and with multiple years of control left. No chance i move a package of futures like that for a guy with 1.5 years left on his deal. We need these young cheap ELC type players to fill the roster so we don't have to fill it with Dominic Moore/Ben Smith types.

If the guy only has 1.5 year left on his deal than we should just wait it out. I don't think we need to rush into any deal for a defender.

Who are these elite level defenders that are available anyway? McDonagh has 1.5 left. OEL? Doughty? Karlsson? Why pay that type of package when we can just wait it out and get them for just money after next season? We'd be better off as then we could potentially have that defender along with the futures.

Hjalmarsson just got traded last offseason for a pretty mediocre Connor Murphy and Laurent Dauphin package. We can easily match something similar imo without gutting the system.

LeafOfFaith
02-16-2018, 09:12 PM
There's no rush.

We're probably not going to win it all this year anyway, with or without them, so why not just roll with what we've got plus some cheap upgrades?

I like McDonagh, but I don't think he's the right guy. For one thing, we have Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott all on the left side. Wait for the opportunity to grab Doughty or Karlsson for free.

And that's if you can't land Tavares in the offseason.

Basically, we need to add one more of these top caliber kind of guys. Any of them will do. Take a shot at them as UFAs and try to get whichever one you can. Don't blow your wad on something that isn't exactly what you need.

number17
02-17-2018, 02:45 PM
I like McDonagh, and he has a few things going for him ...

- He's 28, still very much in his prime, and most likely will stay in his prime for the next 4 years at least
- He's an all round defenseman who's as good offensively as he is defensively
- His raw skills are very balanced, he doesn't rely on any 1 particular skillset (shot, skating, size, etc.)
- His hockey IQ appears to be pretty good
- He ranks top 30 in pretty much all advanced stats among dmen, which means he is a true #1D (I know I previously said he isn't, but I must have been thinking about someone else who we looked into his advanced stats and realized he's overhyped ... McDonagh is a true #1D)
- He is signed on to a very cheap contract ($4.8M, I think?) for 1 more season
- He's from Minnesota ... I don't particularly like American dmen but those from MN are ok ;)

My biggest knock against him, if any, are
- He's LHD. I may be mistaken but I think he plays RD as much as he plays LD on NYR ala Hainsey though
- He doesn't really have a great shot, and the Leafs can really use a shot from the point
- He isn't overly physical at 6'1, and the Leafs can really use a top 4 D who absolutely levels our opponents

So I'd say he's a good fit, though not a great fit. It depends on the asking price for NY (I bet it will cost us arm and a leg) but I think he will do well in Toronto.

I won't pay the 'expected price' of Liljegren + roster player + 1st round pick, which probably means we won't end up with him. But I think I'd pay Liljegren + 1st, and a secondary piece like Leivo or something for him.

number17
02-17-2018, 02:47 PM
There's no rush.

We're probably not going to win it all this year anyway, with or without them, so why not just roll with what we've got plus some cheap upgrades?

I like McDonagh, but I don't think he's the right guy. For one thing, we have Rielly, Gardiner, and Dermott all on the left side. Wait for the opportunity to grab Doughty or Karlsson for free.

And that's if you can't land Tavares in the offseason.

Basically, we need to add one more of these top caliber kind of guys. Any of them will do. Take a shot at them as UFAs and try to get whichever one you can. Don't blow your wad on something that isn't exactly what you need.So a couple things. I agree we don't need to rush, but I also think we CAN win any time now. I'm not saying we're a 'contender' but any team that makes it to the playoff, thanks to the parity in the NHL, CAN win it any given year imo. Our window of opportunity has already begun imo. We haven't 'peaked' but we CAN win now.

I also think the other upside of paying the steep price for a guy like McDonagh is you CAN still go out and sign a big time UFA like, say, Tavares in the offseason. If we sign a big time UFA, let's say Doughty or Karlsson (just example, don't think either of them will be Leaf-bound) , we absolutely won't have any cap space left for another big UFA.

zeke
02-17-2018, 03:35 PM
McDonagh - Rielly
Gardiner - Hainsey
Dermott - Zaitsev

I mean, we can win cups with that.