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Leafovic
12-19-2008, 08:45 PM
So how are everyone's clubs doing?

I mainly pay attention to the Bundesliga and a bit of La Liga. Not really an EPL guy. Bayern Munich are my team. Though I've taken a liking to Hoffenheim as well who are killing as a newly promoted club.

My county is killing in the stats too in the BL..Ibisevic leads with 18 goals in 16 games (Hoffenheim)/next guy is 12..hope he keeps it up in the 2nd half. And Misimovic, Salihovic, Dzeko and Ibisevic are the top 4 leaders in assists.

Bayern/Hoffenheim are now tied on points..last game bayern won 2-1 in the final minutes..Toni with the goal..his usual type of goal.

PQ
12-19-2008, 09:35 PM
CSKA Moscow finished the season 2nd in the RPL and really should've been first..

Finished 1st with a 100% record in UEFA Cup too

JaysCyYoung
12-19-2008, 09:39 PM
Russian football has been coming along very nicely over the past few seasons. It's great to see them emerge after years of corruption limiting the effectiveness of the national team program.

zeke
12-19-2008, 09:48 PM
Inter hasn't been perfect, but they're on top in the league, and went through the group stages of the CL comfortably (and are entering the semis of the Italian cup for the treble).


They had the draw for the first knockout stage for the CL today.....three epic Italy-England battles right off the bat.....

ManU - Inter
Chelsea - Juve
Arsenal - Roma


Should be sick.

I think we're looking at an Italian sweep.

PQ
12-19-2008, 09:50 PM
Arsenal > all of the above

Fitzgerald#11
12-19-2008, 09:51 PM
Rogers better get TSN2 up before these games start

JaysCyYoung
12-19-2008, 09:56 PM
Arsenal and United should advance no problem, but Chelsea should have major issues with Juventus.

HolyPuck
12-19-2008, 09:57 PM
lol at Arsenal >

HolyPuck
12-19-2008, 09:59 PM
Inexperienced Arsenal have nobody to secure the centre of their midfield or defense, there is no way they advance.

PQ
12-19-2008, 09:59 PM
Cesc > Totti

HolyPuck
12-19-2008, 10:04 PM
Totti 405 games played 170 goals scored > Fabregas 152 games played 15 goals.

Leafovic
12-19-2008, 10:04 PM
just for zeke

Ibisevic > Toni

Ibisevic 18 goals, Toni 9.

ouch.

Fitzgerald#11
12-19-2008, 10:05 PM
love Aresnal but the Walcott injury hurts

zeke
12-19-2008, 10:10 PM
Roma has been pretty much unstoppable since Totti came back from injury. Arsenal's gonna have a helluva time getting by them.

I like Chelsea, but I don't think they can take out Juve at this point.

the ManU-Inter matchup could be a classic.

PQ
12-19-2008, 10:16 PM
Totti 405 games played 170 goals scored > Fabregas 152 games played 15 goals.

well yeah, he's only 11 years older..

Leafovic
12-19-2008, 10:19 PM
Juve fans wanted Ranieri out not long ago but the latest results are brining the fans back on his side. They aren't playing the best footy but they are getting it done lately. I guess that is Italian football for you.

zeke
12-19-2008, 10:28 PM
Juve and Milan had a spectacular clash last week. 5-2 I think for Juve, all sweet goals, and tons of other chances.

I guess that's Italian football for you.

JaysCyYoung
12-19-2008, 10:30 PM
What happens on the international level then? Why do they choose to trap like the 1998 New Jersey Devils?

Leafovic
12-19-2008, 10:31 PM
meh, Milan are crap now...way too old.

HolyPuck
12-19-2008, 10:34 PM
well yeah, he's only 11 years older..

You're the one who compared them in the first place

De Rossi- 165 appearances 18 goals is a better comparison.
or
Aquilani- 94 appearences 9 goals.

zeke
12-19-2008, 10:35 PM
On the international level they regularly employ a three striker set, and are usually amongst the highest scoring teams in any tourney.

HolyPuck
12-19-2008, 10:36 PM
Yea the days of Trappatoni's anti football is over. Too bad he's coaching Ireland (I think).

Leafovic
12-19-2008, 10:38 PM
Italy just don't have many creative players, so its always the same shit. I mean you can play with three strikers but if you don't have any imagination, it ends up the same way..loads of unimaginative passes, back passes, possession. Possesion looks shitty though if you can't counter strong and creatively with it. You need some speed, some nice technical skill, some imagination to make it look nice..italy really doesn't have any of that. It's mostly a work-rate, strength thing with them.

zeke
12-19-2008, 10:40 PM
yeah, no creative players.

HolyPuck
12-19-2008, 10:53 PM
The creativity is not lacking, its the flair and the ability for a player to open up the game with pace and dribbling that they don't have.

zeke
12-19-2008, 10:57 PM
compared to who?

HolyPuck
12-19-2008, 11:03 PM
Spain, France, Netherlands, Brazil, Argentina. Di Natale and Camoranesi are the only "dribblers" on the team, and compared to the other top teams, they're not as strong. The strength in Italy lies in the unexpected perfect pass, which they pull off with De Rossi, Pirlo, Aquilani, Montolivo. They need some more pacy players, integrating Pepe was a good start, lets see what else Lippi can do.

Leafovic
12-20-2008, 08:34 AM
Hoffenheim striker Ibisevic on Inter Milan radar
19.12.08 | tribalfootball.com

Hoffenheim striker Vedad Ibisevic has emerged as a target for Inter Milan.

Tuttosport says the prolific Bosnia international is being discussed by Inter directors as they prepare a major overhaul of their attacking department next year.

Adriano's future is under a cloud, while Argentine veterans Hernan Crespo and Julio Cruz are also likely to be on their way.

At 24, Ibisevic is seen by Inter coach Jose Mourinho as ideal cover for Zlatan Ibrahimovic and he has discussed the forward's situation with transfers chief Marco Branca.
----------------------------------------------------
the two bosnians upfront in Inter..that be nice.

jrsuperstar
12-20-2008, 10:35 AM
I will be seeing Hoffenheim in the spring in Hamburg. Should be a good match. Also will be seeing Hertha Berlin at the Olympic stadium in Berlin and St. Pauli in Hamburg. I was in Munchen in November and saw Bayern at the Alliance against Bielefeld. Great match and great ambiance. No one here in Kanada understands the atmosphere at these matches, just can't be compared. I was lucky to also see 1860at their training grounds with a couple of friends who work for the club and later celebrated their victory over Koblenz at the Alliance. Doesn't anyone here go to see any football games??? Where are the football fanatics like me???

j_15
12-20-2008, 11:01 AM
Arsenal have every chance of beating Roma. They play against the good sides. The kids are inconsistent, but come good on the big stage more often than not. Plus they will have Eduardo and Walcott back by then, Toure should also be fit. It wont be easy but I think they can do it.

I'm hoping that a few English clubs get knocked out early this season, especially Man Utd and Liverpool. I see so much of those clubs that its nice for a change.

Crystal Palace are my team, currently 8th in the English Championship (league below the Premiership), but looking good for a playoff spot, and a push for promotion into the premiership if we stay healthy, our squad is looking very promising and Warnock is a great manager.

In terms of the Premiership, being a Londoner I always like to see Arsenal do well, but it wont be their year due to their inconsistency. Just praying that Man U and Liverpool dont win anything!

jrsuperstar
12-20-2008, 11:16 AM
Never been to Selhurst Park. Have to say that seeing games at Craven Cottage is always enjoyable, may be not the football, but the location down by the Thames is really old skool, the way football should be seen.

Looking forward to seeing how Wiltshire will do in the long term. Wouldn't it be ironic if Arsenal is looked upon as being the team producing the best English players. I can see Wiltshire and Walcott both playing big parts internationally. Kids that are not only fast and athletic, but also very technical players. It is amazing that now we are seeing more and more excellent technical English players. Only negative on seeing games at the Emirates is the cost!!!

jrsuperstar
12-20-2008, 11:23 AM
CHELSEA v JUVENTUS
Claudio Ranieri's return will conjure disappointing memories for Chelsea fans who still remember his infamous substitutions in Monaco some four years ago with a grimace. The Italian worked diligently for four seasons at Stamford Bridge without ever having the charisma of a Jose Mourinho. At Juve he is blessed with a top-class goalkeeper in Gianluigi Buffon but his other experienced players — from Alessandro del Piero to Pavel Nedved — are well past their heydays. Three seasons ago, Juventus came to Highbury and were dispatched comfortably by Arsenal, their evening ending in a shameful display of petulance. They will need to keep their discipline this time and play at their best to stand any chance. Chelsea will just be pleased to have avoided Barcelona but they will recall how they struggled in Roma in the group stage when they took their eyes off the ball, and this is a team that has not won away from home in Europe for over a year. However, with four semi-final appearances and the heartbreak of Moscow still fresh, they will be determined to nail this one. They are certainly capable of progressing.

Head to head

Giorgio Chiellini v Jose Bosingwa

Bosingwa's wonderful acceleration and speed has been tempered recently by an erratic quality of cross. When Chelsea play narrow, the Portuguese still gives them tremendous attacking options down the flank whilste Jon Mikel Obi holds. Chiellini, at 24, is a much coveted player making big strides with his no-nonsense defending whether employed at full-back or centre-half. He is likely to be positioned wide for this tie, making this an intriguing touchline clash

Verdict

Chelsea's motivation and maybe Drogba's return to the fold should see them past a team that has not done enough to challenge at the top of Serie A this season.

REAL MADRID v LIVERPOOL
Juande Ramos has much to do at the Bernabéu. He has inherited an ageing, injury-torn group with the experience of Guti and Raul less effective than in previous years. Drenthe is yet to settle into any consistent form in Spain, whilst Arjen Robben and Ruud van Nistelrooy are out of action. Lagging behind in the table, Ramos is unlikely to turn this around immediately even with the additions of Lassana Diarra and Klaus Jan Huntelaar, and will be perturbed at the prospect of taking on the strong Spanish connection at Liverpool, who will relish the chance to challenge a once great Real. Rafael Benítez, born in Madrid, and Fernando Torres, who played so effectively for rivals Atlético, have their own motivation and will particularly look forward to the tie. On Sunday Barcelona's magical three — Lionel Messi, Samuel Eto'o and Thierry Henry — tore into Real, whose goalkeeper, Iker Casillas, was fabulous to limit the damage to a 2-0 defeat. Spain's first-choice goalkeeper will need to be at his best yet again against Liverpool, particularly if Steven Gerrard is employed just off the rampaging and fully fit Torres.

Head to head

Raúl v Jamie Carragher

Raúl refuses to go away. The veteran continues to pull away brilliantly at the back post well into his twilight years with a calm, clinical mind still potent. The Spaniard's positional play will test Carragher and he is a talented left-footed finisher. Physically Carragher — all heart and no-nonsense defending — will probably come out on top but the centre-half must snuff out hishis threat early to blunt Real.

Verdict

Liverpool to progress, again benefiting from the second leg being at Anfield where they will be roared on by their 12th man.

ARSENAL v AS ROMA


AS Roma will be determined more than ever to progress, given the prospect of the final being played at their Olympic stadium. Mirko Vucinic is a dangerous striker and should not be underestimated as he cuts in from the left with deceptive speed and an ability to finish calmly. Much of the interest will surround Francesco Totti and the ex-Arsenal player, Julio Baptista, and Roma, currently 10th in Serie A, will be written off by many even though they dispatched Chelsea recently on a cold night in Italy. Chelsea had when the visitors had a sleepy second period that evening and were surprised by their hosts' revival. Luciano Spalletti had been left in a tenuous position prior to that game. He has since recovered his reputation to a certain extent, even if the team has not progressed this season as much as had been predicted. Ars*enal must rediscover their group play, disturbed as they have been by the absence of their wingers Theo Walcott and Tomas Rosicky. Whether the Christmas and new year results demonstrate the Gunners as harder to beat might prove the key. At the moment, and with the second leg away from home, one hesitates to make a strong case for Arsenal.

Head to head

Emmanuel Adebayor v Philippe Mexes

The Arsenal striker has had a mixed season since his controversial pre-season comments, so this will be an ideal opportunity for him to remind everyone of his talents against the improved Mexes. The Frenchman, a product of the Auxerre stable, has been this side's linchpin as a centre-back covering for the likes of the attacking Cicinho, who runs on down the right, and complementing the adaptability of Christian Panucci. Mexes' influence is strong. Unsettle him and Roma can be undermined.

Verdict

Roma, a counter-attacking side, could well be the one Italian team to break the English stranglehold at this stage.

INTERNAZIONALE v MANCHESTER UNITED
Critically, the second leg of this tie comes at Old Trafford. The brooding, brilliant if supercilious Jose Mourinho will no doubt play mind games with Sir Alex Ferguson — shrewd, tough and bullish —during the build-up. On the field Sulley Muntari can supply Inter's key passes and complements that skill by breaking from midfield with a creative left foot. Zlatan Ibrahimovic, likewise, is a stealthy striker. But United, who have bad memories of San Siro having lost there crucially in 2005 and 2007, will fancy their chances. In the group stage Inter were defeated by both Werder Bremen — who somewhat surprisingly failed to qualify — and Panathinaikos. Although hanging on to No1 spot in Italy, there have been several discomforts at the club this season, not least with the president LucianoMassimo Moratti's difficulties in handling the egotistical Mourinho. United's forward talent and the venue of the second leg should sway this tie but one can never underestimate Mourinho's tactical awareness and the gift of a gambler in making early decisions so early into a 90-minute contest.

Head to head

Zlatan Ibrahimovic v Nemanja Vidic

The tall striker has put much of his individual arrogance aside as he has matured and he will now play combination football where once he was selfish. Very talented The Swede against the Serb. with the ball, his spindly frame makes him a difficult opponent but Vidic — tough, with great spring and strong tackling— should still stamp his authority on the duel.

Verdict

Manchester United to go through with the benefit of the second leg at Old Trafford.

TimHorton
12-20-2008, 11:26 AM
I hope is lazy Zlatan that shows up against us, and not all world Zlatan.

jrsuperstar
12-20-2008, 11:29 AM
I think he will be in tough against the defending duo of Ferdinand and Vidic, who are arguably two of the best defenders in Europe.

TimHorton
12-20-2008, 11:34 AM
Oh I agree, I'm about as big a Vidic fan as there is. But when Zlatan is in the mood he might be the best player on the planet

Thankfully he's a lazy bastard.

HolyPuck
12-20-2008, 11:56 AM
I've been planning my trip to the Olympico if Roma make the finals, seeing them lift the Champion's League Trophy on home soil with the Curva Sud going crazy would be an unforgettable day.


TFC NEWS: DP announcement on Jan 5/6, so keep an eye out. (De Guzman?)

j_15
12-20-2008, 11:57 AM
Never been to Selhurst Park. Have to say that seeing games at Craven Cottage is always enjoyable, may be not the football, but the location down by the Thames is really old skool, the way football should be seen.

Looking forward to seeing how Wiltshire will do in the long term. Wouldn't it be ironic if Arsenal is looked upon as being the team producing the best English players. I can see Wiltshire and Walcott both playing big parts internationally. Kids that are not only fast and athletic, but also very technical players. It is amazing that now we are seeing more and more excellent technical English players. Only negative on seeing games at the Emirates is the cost!!!

Selhurst is a horribly outdated ground, not a very nice place to watch football, but it sounds like location is going to be a barrier to us building a new stadium.

As for Wilshire, he has the natural ability to be an incredible player. One of the best technical English players in years. It all depends on how he is handled, but Wenger has a very good record when it comes to youngsters. Its good to finally see some flair players coming through. I still shudder when I think of the days of Batty, Vassell etc in the national team.

jrsuperstar
12-20-2008, 12:01 PM
After watching the Bolton vs Portsmouth game, all of England's hopes and dreams will begin and end with Calamity James. Man, can't the English have at least one good keeper!!! Man, Capello must be furious!!

zeke
12-20-2008, 12:11 PM
Arsenal have every chance of beating Roma. They play against the good sides. The kids are inconsistent, but come good on the big stage more often than not. Plus they will have Eduardo and Walcott back by then, Toure should also be fit. It wont be easy but I think they can do it.

I'm hoping that a few English clubs get knocked out early this season, especially Man Utd and Liverpool. I see so much of those clubs that its nice for a change.

Crystal Palace are my team, currently 8th in the English Championship (league below the Premiership), but looking good for a playoff spot, and a push for promotion into the premiership if we stay healthy, our squad is looking very promising and Warnock is a great manager.

In terms of the Premiership, being a Londoner I always like to see Arsenal do well, but it wont be their year due to their inconsistency. Just praying that Man U and Liverpool dont win anything!


I'm actually a pretty big Arsenal fan, at least as much as a fan of an english team that I can be.

But while Arsenal continues to struggle, Roma has undergone a massive turnaround since Totti came back. They've been near unstoppable in both league and CL since he returned.

Of course Arsenal can beat them, but I think Roma has the edge going in.

jrsuperstar
12-20-2008, 12:17 PM
Arsenal has been in disarray since losing Walcott to injury. They have been plagued with leadership problems which to me means there are problems in the dressing room between Gallas and the rest of the team. Their three most promosing young players are all British, Wiltshire, Walcott and Ramsay. I have to say the one player that has impressed me the most this season is Nasri.

The most surprising team this season is Aston Villa. I think more so because of all the teams in the Premier League they are one of the few that are predominately English. I think the duo of Agbonlahar and Young will give Capello plenty of attacking options, more than we have had in awhile.

The ball is round as Herberger once said.

„Der Ball ist rund“

Leafovic
12-20-2008, 02:09 PM
Oh I agree, I'm about as big a Vidic fan as there is. But when Zlatan is in the mood he might be the best player on the planet

Thankfully he's a lazy bastard.

You mean this mood?

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk86/leafovic/action_soccer_bulge.jpg[/img]

zeke
12-20-2008, 02:22 PM
looks like Ibesevic is coming to Inter.

j_15
12-20-2008, 02:31 PM
I'm actually a pretty big Arsenal fan, at least as much as a fan of an english team that I can be.

But while Arsenal continues to struggle, Roma has undergone a massive turnaround since Totti came back. They've been near unstoppable in both league and CL since he returned.

Of course Arsenal can beat them, but I think Roma has the edge going in.

Fair play. I havent actually seen much of Roma this season, but have enjoyed watching them play over the last couple of years, I like the fluid kind of style they play. Was disappointed they lost to Man Utd last season. I think with the football both Roma and Arsenal can play, it has the potential to be the best tie of the round.

I would love if Real Madrid gave Liverpool a thumping but they have been poor lately, so that could also be an interesting tie, so long as Benitez's tactics dont suck the life out of it.

As for Ibrahimovic, I have never been a fan of his. He can be brilliant, but I think he's too inconsistent to build a team around to continually challenge for league and cup competitions.

HolyPuck
12-20-2008, 02:32 PM
They'll only sign Ibisevic is if they offload a striker or too.
Ibrahimovic, Adriano, Cruz, Ballotelli, Crespo is a very heavy loaded front line.

Leafovic
12-20-2008, 02:37 PM
They'll only sign Ibisevic is if they offload a striker or too.
Ibrahimovic, Adriano, Cruz, Ballotelli, Crespo is a very heavy loaded front line.

Yeah except Mourinho was quoted as saying some of those guys are not getting any younger. So they will unload some of those guys, just depends who.

But even though there are those rumors, Ibisevic said he was not going anywhere this season. Unless there is some new news I didn't hear about.

HolyPuck
12-20-2008, 02:44 PM
Yea I also read what he said to Hoffenheim about playing out the season.

Crespo is as good as gone, Cruz he may decide to offload, and he sent Ballotelli to the primavera squad, and Adriano is still not the same Adriano, however Mourinho said he wanted to keep him, so there may be room for Ibisevic and/or the Drog.

TimHorton
12-20-2008, 02:58 PM
I think you'll see the Drog for sure. Ballotelli is a bundle of talent but hardly proven at the elite level. And Adriano is like the real Ronaldo now, fat and useless.

zeke
12-20-2008, 03:16 PM
They'll only sign Ibisevic is if they offload a striker or too.
Ibrahimovic, Adriano, Cruz, Ballotelli, Crespo is a very heavy loaded front line.


are you kidding?

you know Moratti stil runs the team, don't you?

he'll buy first, ask questions later, as he always does.

HolyPuck
12-20-2008, 04:15 PM
are you kidding?

you know Moratti stil runs the team, don't you?

he'll buy first, ask questions later, as he always does.

I'm not kidding, I'm just going with the quotes from Mourinho himself. He doesn't want a larger squad, he himself said he wants to unload strikers not sign any. But Moratti is a spend first guy, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do sign someone, I just don't think it will happen without some bodies making way.

jrsuperstar
12-21-2008, 11:20 AM
Beautiful strike by Van Persie, from a pass from my man Nasri. :)

Crappy weather but a beautiful day to be watching the best football in the world:)

I believe now that the interest level in European football is now ranked as follows:

!) EPL by a larger margin. They are saying that even with the world recession that they are continuing to grow exponentially. The only league in any sport that is depression proof.
2) La Liga. The league that has the most interest to those in the UK.
3) Bundesliga. Interest is growing world wide for the Bundeslliga. They are doing things right, and I think they are firmly entrenched as the third most popular league in Europe.
4) Serie A. Hard up hill battle for the Italians. Will Morinho change the face of Italian football and make it more palatable for the world? I personally think they have lost their chance, and will have a tough time trying to sell their market world wide.

habs25th
12-21-2008, 11:28 AM
Juve and Milan had a spectacular clash last week. 5-2 I think for Juve, all sweet goals, and tons of other chances.

I guess that's Italian football for you.

Isn't italian football all about diving and acting like a bunch of bitches overall?

Edit: forgot about the corruption too. If I remember at the World Cup they were pretty much the New Jersey Devils of football, boring their opponents to death.

Leafovic
12-21-2008, 11:38 AM
Some scores:

Italian

Siena 1 - 2 Inter Milan
Atalanta 1 - 3 Juventus
Catania 3 - 2 AS Roma

AC Milan play later today

Leafovic
12-21-2008, 11:39 AM
Some scores:

Italian

Siena 1 - 2 Inter Milan
Atalanta 1 - 3 Juventus
Catania 3 - 2 AS Roma

AC Milan play later today

jrsuperstar
12-21-2008, 11:41 AM
Keane with the beautiful strike. Man, oh man, my parents must be in heaven with their man Robbie Keane.

HolyPuck
12-21-2008, 11:41 AM
4) Serie A. Hard up hill battle for the Italians. Will Morinho change the face of Italian football and make it more palatable for the world? I personally think they have lost their chance, and will have a tough time trying to sell their market world wide.

Palatable for the world or for "England"?

jrsuperstar
12-21-2008, 12:08 PM
Palatable for the world or for "England"?

Non-Italians.

zeke
12-21-2008, 12:35 PM
Serie A is well ahead of LaLiga in popularity and revenue.

j_15
12-21-2008, 12:58 PM
Serie A is well ahead of LaLiga in popularity and revenue.

I'm pretty sure thats not true.

Good point for Arsenal in the end, I think the sending off was very harsh. Nasri was brilliant.
Once again Liverpool play hugely negative football and thankfully it didnt pay off for them again.

j_15
12-21-2008, 01:14 PM
Inter have been handed a boost for their Champions League tie with Man Utd, Vidic was sent off for Man Utd in the World Club Championship this morning, and will miss the first leg against Inter as a result.

Leafovic
12-21-2008, 01:21 PM
Inter have been handed a boost for their Champions League tie with Man Utd, Vidic was sent off for Man Utd in the World Club Championship this morning, and will miss the first leg against Inter as a result.

That's huge for them, Vidic is a stallion.

jrsuperstar
12-21-2008, 02:39 PM
If Rio and Wayne are on their game they will prevail. Rooney was named player of the tournament and his final strike was a thing of beauty. Man, if he is on fire, watch out. Technically gifted with a flair for the creative, he is what makes Manu what they are today. I am sure that Capello is loving it:)

Leafovic
12-21-2008, 02:47 PM
Man just thinking about Vidic, Stankovic, Modric, Ibisevic, etc how good we could be if Yugoslavia was still together. We could kill anyone.

teeds
12-21-2008, 02:49 PM
I forgot, Serbian or Croatian? Me Cr. Partially. No matter, that part of the world is soooo beautiful, want to go live there soon.

Do you have passport? This is for Leafovic.

j_15
12-21-2008, 02:51 PM
I also think Man U will win the tie, but to be fair I havent seen much of Inter this season. Ferguson always plays a more defensive system in Europe, but United have so much strength in depth, and Inter will struggle to keep Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez and Ronaldo quiet. I hope I'm wrong though!

jrsuperstar
12-21-2008, 02:51 PM
Nah, they'd kill each other first. Too much hatred. Friends of mine on both sides of the conflict have a irrational hatred for anyone on the other side. The first time I noticed it, I couldn't believe it, but as I did not grow up in Yugoslavia, I can't say one way or another why the hatred exists.

Leafovic
12-21-2008, 02:53 PM
I forgot, Serbian or Croatian? Me Cr. Partially. No matter, that part of the world is soooo beautiful, want to go live there soon.

Do you have passport? This is for Leafovic.

Bosnian. (Bosniak)

Yep, I have a passport.

Leafovic
12-21-2008, 02:54 PM
Nah, they'd kill each other first. Too much hatred. Friends of mine on both sides of the conflict have a irrational hatred for anyone on the other side. The first time I noticed it, I couldn't believe it, but as I did not grow up in Yugoslavia, I can't say one way or another why the hatred exists.

Well, there is a long history there, and of course after a fairly recent conflict, there is hate. Bottom line is, the people are the same, come from the same tribes basically, so its just a religious thing.

zeke
12-21-2008, 03:16 PM
wow, Milan is tearing up Udinese with Kaka back. 4-1 at the half.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
12-22-2008, 10:14 PM
.

lecoqsportif
12-22-2008, 11:33 PM
Man just thinking about Vidic, Stankovic, Modric, Ibisevic, etc how good we could be if Yugoslavia was still together. We could kill anyone.

Impressive. But...

Spain? Argentina? Brazil?

I doubt that. These guys cut players that other countries would kill for.

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 02:50 PM
Impressive. But...

Spain? Argentina? Brazil?

I doubt that. These guys cut players that other countries would kill for.

We can compete with them for sure.

I'd say they have the advantage ,but when we were Yugoslavia, we beat Argentina, and then there is that famous game in 1990 where we lost in penalties to them.

One of the legends of Bosnian football (then yugoslavian) vs Argentina...hat-trick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxAeJmDp39c

PQ
01-05-2009, 02:58 PM
USSR would've also been a pretty good team today

HolyPuck
01-05-2009, 02:59 PM
I received the History of Soccer DVD box set for Christmas, I recommend it to anyone interested. It's the most detailed soccer documentary I've ever seen. It covers every aspect of the sport, includes in depth interviews with pele, maradona, zidane, sir bobby charlon, and many more. Just a really really good watch if you're a footy fanatic like myself.

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 03:02 PM
I received the History of Soccer DVD box set for Christmas, I recommend it to anyone interested. It's the most detailed soccer documentary I've ever seen. It covers every aspect of the sport, includes in depth interviews with pele, maradona, zidane, sir bobby charlon, and many more. Just a really really good watch if you're a footy fanatic like myself.

Do they cover like the top players of all time?

It seems Eastern Euro players always get shafted in those.

You see, under Yugoslavia, there was a rule that our players couldn't leave the Yugoslav league till 27 or 28. So they didn't get the coverage.

So players like Savicevic, Stojkovic, Susic, get shafted.

HolyPuck
01-05-2009, 03:13 PM
They actually spent some time talking about eastern Europe and the Balkans, but they didn't have their own section like Africa, South America, etc. They talked about the USSR as a super power of World soccer as well. Talked about the amazing Italians of the 1930s, the Hungarians of the 1950s. Talked about the origins of soccer and they even include the earliest filmed match in 1897!

HolyPuck
01-05-2009, 03:15 PM
There are 6 dvds with 140 minutes worth of amazing stuff, i highly highly recommend it!

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 03:31 PM
PTBNL posted some stats before about goals per game..but pretty sure his results were different.

Goals per game per league:

Bundesliga 3.02
La Liga 2.9
EPL 2.59
Seria A 2.47
Ligue 1 2.23

j_15
01-05-2009, 03:55 PM
The thing is as in any sport, goals per game is not really a meaningful stat, especially when there is less than a goal difference in it. Goals per game is rarely an effective indicator of how good a league/game is.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2009, 04:40 PM
I agree with J. The problem with those statistics are that they might be inflated by games where a team such as Stoke might get blown out by Chelsea or Man U 5-0 or something along those lines. There also might be more competitive teams that were recently promoted than in past years affecting the GF/GA totals. Take into account different transfers and signings, players crossing leagues, etc. and it's hard to get a read on any sort of consistency.

Maybe some of the bigger football fanatics on this forum could delve deeper into this?

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 04:43 PM
Different playing styles are the biggest contributing factor.

La Liga tends to be more free flowing, and such players tend to go there. Italian league is known as a league of stallions and has a lot of physically strong players. Maybe the toughest league to play in a a result..tough on the body. Also a lot more structure in the playing style.

So, while the leagues might be similar quality when it comes to talent, each league draws certain types of players a bit more.

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 05:38 PM
EPL

Standings
1 Liverpool 20 45
2 Chelsea 20 42
3 Manchester Utd 18 38
4 Aston Villa 20 38
5 Arsenal 20 35
6 Everton 20 32
7 Wigan Athletic 19 28
8 Hull City 20 27
9 Fulham 19 26
10 West Ham Utd 20 25
11 Bolton 20 23
12 Portsmouth 20 23
13 Manchester City 20 22
14 Newcastle Utd 20 22
15 Sunderland 20 22
16 Tottenham 20 20
17 Middlesbrough 20 20
18 Stoke City 20 20
19 Blackburn 20 18
20 West Bromwich 20 18

Scorers
# Player Team Goals Penalties
1 Anelka Chelsea 14 0
2 Robinho Manchester City 11 1
3 Zaky Wigan Athletic 10 4
4 Agbonlahor Aston Villa 9 0
5 Ciss� Sunderland 8 1
6 Defoe Portsmouth 8 2
7 Ronaldo Manchester Utd 8 1
8 Gerrard Liverpool 8 1
9 Lampard Chelsea 8 1
10 van Persie Arsenal 8 1
11 Bent Tottenham 7 1
12 Owen Newcastle Utd 7 1
13 Crouch Portsmouth 7 0
14 Adebayor Arsenal 7 1
15 Bedn�r West Bromwich 6 2
16 Fuller Stoke City 6 1
17 Martins Newcastle Utd 6 0
18 Geovanni Hull City 6 1
19 Ireland Manchester City 6 0
20 King Hull City 5 2
21 Elmander Bolton 5 0
22 Cole West Ham Utd 5 0
23 Keane Liverpool 5 0
24 Torres Liverpool 5 0
25 Kuyt Liverpool 5 0

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 05:41 PM
Italy

Standings
Pld Pts
1 Inter Milan 17 42
2 Juventus 17 36
3 AC Milan 17 33
4 Fiorentina 17 32
5 Napoli 17 30
6 Genoa 17 29
7 Lazio Roma 17 27
8 Catania 17 25
9 Atalanta 17 24
10 Palermo 17 23
11 AS Roma 16 23
12 Udinese 17 22
13 Cagliari 17 21
14 Sampdoria 16 19
15 Siena 17 19
16 Bologna 17 15
17 Torino 17 15
18 Lecce 17 14
19 Reggina 17 13
20 Chievo Verona 17 9

Scorers

# Player Team Goals Penalties
1 Diego Genoa 12 4
2 Di Vaio Bologna 12 2
3 Gilardino Fiorentina 12 0
4 Amauri Juventus 11 0
5 Ibrahimovic Inter Milan 10 0
6 Z�rate Lazio Roma 8 2
7 Di Natale Udinese 8 2
8 Floccari Atalanta 8 1
9 Corradi Reggina 7 3
10 Denis Napoli 7 0
11 Miccoli Palermo 7 2
12 Hamsik Napoli 7 2
13 Mascara Catania 7 2
14 Kak� AC Milan 7 2
15 Ronaldinho AC Milan 6 2
16 Quagliarella Udinese 6 0
17 Del Piero Juventus 6 2
18 Sculli Genoa 6 0
19 Mutu Fiorentina 6 1
20 Acquafresca Cagliari 6 1
21 Pato AC Milan 6 0
22 Cassano Sampdoria 5 1
23 Cavani Palermo 5 0
24 Pandev Lazio Roma 5 0
25 Jeda Cagliari 5 0

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 05:42 PM
La Liga

Standings
Pld Pts
1 FC Barcelona 17 44
2 Valencia 17 33
3 Real Madrid 17 32
4 FC Sevilla 17 32
5 Atl�tico Madrid 17 30
6 Deportivo 17 30
7 Villarreal 17 29
8 Malaga 17 25
9 Valladolid 17 23
10 Getafe 17 21
11 Racing 17 21
12 Sporting Gij�n 17 21
13 Athletic Bilbao 17 20
14 Almer�a 17 19
15 Betis Sevilla 17 18
16 Numancia 17 17
17 Huelva 17 16
18 Espanyol 17 14
19 Mallorca 17 14
20 Osasuna 17 13

Scorers

# Player Team Goals Penalties
1 Eto`o FC Barcelona 15 1
2 Villa Valencia 13 3
3 Higua�n Real Madrid 11 2
4 Forl�n Atl�tico Madrid 11 2
5 Messi FC Barcelona 10 2
6 Henry FC Barcelona 9 0
7 Ag�ero Atl�tico Madrid 9 0
8 Negredo Almer�a 8 2
9 Bilic Sporting Gij�n 7 3
10 Baha Malaga 7 0
11 Barkero Numancia 6 1
12 Emana Betis Sevilla 6 2
13 Rossi Villarreal 6 0
14 Mata Valencia 6 0
15 Llorente Villarreal 6 0
16 Raul Real Madrid 6 0
17 Tchit� Racing 6 2
18 Maxi Rodriguez Atl�tico Madrid 6 0
19 Llorente Athletic Bilbao 6 1
20 Colunga Huelva 5 2
21 Alb�n Getafe 5 0
22 Kanout� FC Sevilla 5 0
23 Lafita Deportivo 5 0
24 Ad�riz Mallorca 5 0
25 Iraola Athletic Bilbao 5 3

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 05:45 PM
Bundesliga

Standings
Pld Pts
1 Hoffenheim 17 35
2 Bayern Munich 17 35
3 Hertha Berlin 17 33
4 Hamburger SV 17 33
5 Leverkusen 17 32
6 Dortmund 17 29
7 Schalke 04 17 27
8 Werder Bremen 17 26
9 Wolfsburg 17 26
10 Stuttgart 17 25
11 FC K�ln 17 22
12 Frankfurt 17 19
13 Hannover 96 17 17
14 Bielefeld 17 14
15 Karlsruher SC 17 13
16 Energie Cottbus 17 13
17 Bochum 17 11
18 M�nchengladbach 17 11

Scorers

# Player Team Goals Penalties
1 Ibisevic Hoffenheim 18 2
2 Helmes Leverkusen 12 1
3 Grafite Wolfsburg 11 4
4 Pizarro Werder Bremen 10 0
5 Novakovic FC K�ln 10 0
6 Wichniarek Bielefeld 9 1
7 Toni Bayern Munich 9 0
8 Diego Werder Bremen 8 2
9 Kie�ling Leverkusen 8 0
10 Petric Hamburger SV 8 0
11 Ba Hoffenheim 7 0
12 Liberopoulos Frankfurt 7 1
13 Gomez Stuttgart 7 0
14 Obasi Hoffenheim 6 0
15 Olic Hamburger SV 6 0
16 Kuranyi Schalke 04 6 0
17 Rib�ry Bayern Munich 6 1
18 Klose Bayern Munich 6 1
19 Rosenberg Werder Bremen 5 0
20 Friend M�nchengladbach 5 0
21 C�cero Hertha Berlin 5 1
22 Farf�n Schalke 04 5 2
23 Subotic Dortmund 5 0
24 Borowski Bayern Munich 5 0
25 Dzeko Wolfsburg 5 0

j_15
01-05-2009, 08:11 PM
Whats the deal with Roma this season? Havent seen much of Serie A, so wondering how comes they are as low as they are?

Some big games in the Premier League this weekend, Man Utd vs Chelsea on Sunday could have pretty big title implications.
WBA really need something from the match against Aston Villa in a big derby game, to keep some of their momentum going and avoid falling from the pack again.

Going to be interesting to see how Man City react after that shock exit in the FA cup against Nottingham Forest. Also going to be interesting to see who they bring in with all that money in January.

PQ
01-05-2009, 08:13 PM
I wish you guys would put in so much energy on the soccer (http://www.forumice.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=115) board

Leafovic
01-05-2009, 10:41 PM
I wish you guys would put in so much energy on the soccer (http://www.forumice.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=115) board

I tried. but it honestly seems that nobody else posts there, so most of the time, you feel you are talking to yourself. There are some footy fans here but zeke, ptbnl, holypuck, etc never post on the soccer forum.

lecoqsportif
01-05-2009, 10:50 PM
I received the History of Soccer DVD box set for Christmas, I recommend it to anyone interested. It's the most detailed soccer documentary I've ever seen. It covers every aspect of the sport, includes in depth interviews with pele, maradona, zidane, sir bobby charlon, and many more. Just a really really good watch if you're a footy fanatic like myself.

I love the interviews... with Maradonna still taunting... "Sheeelton! Sheeelton!" lol And that Alfredo di Stefano is still a combative old fart.

HolyPuck
01-06-2009, 01:04 AM
Whats the deal with Roma this season? Havent seen much of Serie A, so wondering how comes they are as low as they are?

They started off the season winning 1 of 5, because of injuries to key players, and just poor form, but they went on an 8 game winning streak in all competitions before losing the last game before the Christmas break. They're aiming for a champions league spot and a spot in the finals at home.

HolyPuck
01-06-2009, 01:05 AM
I love the interviews... with Maradonna still taunting... "Sheeelton! Sheeelton!" lol And that Alfredo di Stefano is still a combative old fart.

Definitely the best part of the whole series was the Maradona interview!

HolyPuck
01-06-2009, 01:07 AM
I tried. but it honestly seems that nobody else posts there, so most of the time, you feel you are talking to yourself. There are some footy fans here but zeke, ptbnl, holypuck, etc never post on the soccer forum.

I checked it out aswell, i didn't really find it attracts many visitors, and most of the people that post there are very EPL oriented with narrow views on other worldly leagues. :couch

j_15
01-06-2009, 06:25 AM
I wish you guys would put in so much energy on the soccer (http://www.forumice.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=115) board

To be honest I didnt realise there was a soccer board. Just saw this soccer thread and thought I'd contribute.

Leafovic
01-15-2009, 10:29 AM
No ****in luck. Ibisevic is gone for a long long time..tore his ACL. We always have horrible luck before big qualifiers.

http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/photo/footballeurope/footballeurope/79/15/46/791546_biglandscape.jpg
Receiving an award a week back

http://mediadb.kicker.de/news/1000/1020/1100/3000/artikel/702946/ibi-1231961713.jpg
yesterday..the expression says it all

zeke
01-15-2009, 12:11 PM
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=jkEGCo85oHo

Leafovic
01-15-2009, 12:22 PM
maybe he was hungry and needed some meat?

HolyPuck
01-15-2009, 12:40 PM
MLS draft is today. TFC has 3 picks, #2, #4 and #13

Steve07
01-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Hey Leafovic quick question for you. What do you know about Spahic (sp?) he plays for Lokomotiv. He is the captain for Bosnia I think. Reason being is the team that I follow(Panathinaikos) is in talks with him but I have not seen too much footage on him I don't know is he good or not really?

Leafovic
01-15-2009, 01:24 PM
Hey Leafovic quick question for you. What do you know about Spahic (sp?) he plays for Lokomotiv. He is the captain for Bosnia I think. Reason being is the team that I follow(Panathinaikos) is in talks with him but I have not seen too much footage on him I don't know is he good or not really?

Yeah, been following that.

He's solid. He is the captain, he's a very good leader, communicator, organizes the defenders well. He doesn't make many mistakes and he's pretty solid in the air. He isn't a possesion defender though, he is pretty simple, and tends to get the ball ahead a lot/long balls etc. He was well regarded in Russia (who now has the 6th best league)

He drew interest from the EPL (Wigan, few other teams) and also Bundesliga (Wolfsburg).

Pretty sure he picked you guys because you are always in the CL.

Fitzgerald#11
01-15-2009, 01:37 PM
What about Arshavin? Is he worth the money for Arsenal?

Steve07
01-15-2009, 01:46 PM
That's good to hear. Thanks bro didn't know too much about him but he seems to be what we need in our def corp right now. I am excited to see what Panathinaikos does this transfer the team is shaping up to be very good. We also signed a very good prospect from Brazil a 21 year old CB named David Braz de Oliveira from Palmeiras. Also there is a rumor that Panathinaikos is trying to get Crespo from Inter lol I doubt it but it would be amazing. Thanks again Leafovic

Steve07
01-15-2009, 01:59 PM
Damn I wanted Zakuani :(

HolyPuck
01-15-2009, 02:07 PM
Cronin is a good pick, you'll be surprised.

Steve07
01-15-2009, 02:09 PM
I know he is a beast and had a mean streak lol. But Zakuani is gonna be what Edu was

Steve07
01-15-2009, 02:11 PM
Hmmm White eh. Well he is Canadian but damn his blown ACL scares me

HolyPuck
01-15-2009, 02:12 PM
Excellent choice, however I really thought he'd be able to stick around until 13.

Steve07
01-15-2009, 02:59 PM
Wow I can't believe Stefan Frei fell to us at 13th lol that's amazing

Fitzgerald#11
01-15-2009, 03:33 PM
according to ESPN's Top 20 we ended up with 2-3-4 on the list.


2. Stefan Frei, GK, California -- Frei is clearly the best keeper and is being compared to Brad Guzan by some even though he's older coming out of school. If he's even close to Guzan's ability, he's an MLS starter and could be bound for Europe in three or four years. Frei is Swiss by birth but attended high school in the U.S.

3. Sam Cronin, M, Wake Forest -- The best midfielder available and the most-ready-to-start field player. He's smooth, aware, and confident, a team leader and tactical dictator of pace and flow. I'd like to see a bit more bite in the tackle, but a quality deep-lying midfielder.

4. O'Brian White, F, Connecticut -- Without the ACL injury he'd be No. 1 on this list. Fast and strong, he has so much talent that someone will risk a pick on him early in the draft. He's a Jamaican international but has Canadian residency. It may take a year for him to be ready to seriously contribute. Even though he's injured, he'll still go in the first round.
I think we likely move the goalie though

PQ
01-15-2009, 03:48 PM
rumours out of Lokomotiv have been that Spahic has been a real cancer in the locker room so they want him out

Leafovic
01-15-2009, 04:10 PM
rumours out of Lokomotiv have been that Spahic has been a real cancer in the locker room so they want him out

I really doubt thats true, PQ. I believe he wanted out of the club for awhile, but the owner there is crazy and didn't want to let him go.

Fitzgerald#11
01-15-2009, 07:08 PM
anyone see this Man City bid for Kaka

j_15
01-15-2009, 08:04 PM
Crazy money. I hope he stays firm and says no. But its such a huge sum that I doubt many could turn it down.

Fitzgerald#11
01-15-2009, 08:23 PM
$157 million is the bid.

500K a week for Kaka

How do you turn that down

PQ
01-15-2009, 08:44 PM
I really doubt thats true, PQ. I believe he wanted out of the club for awhile, but the owner there is crazy and didn't want to let him go.

he's currently training with Lokomotiv reserves. they want him out.

zeke
02-10-2009, 02:57 PM
If anyone is interested in catching one of the most anticipated friendlies in recent memory, Brazil and Italy are facing each other for the first time in 12 years, and Italy just had a sweet goal called back for offside.

Good links up at www.soccer.co.cc

zeke
02-10-2009, 03:04 PM
DiNatala - Gilardino

Pepe - DeRossi - Pirlo - Montolivo

Grosso - Cannavarro - Legrottalie - Zambrotta

Buffon





Adriano - Robinho

Ronaldinho - Felipe - Elano - Gilberto

Marcelo - Lucio - Juan - Maicon

Cesar



pretty much the A lineups for both teams, aside from a couple of injuries.

zeke
02-10-2009, 03:05 PM
shit. Brazil scores, Legrottaglie gets burned, got a foot on the through ball but it ended up bouncing right to Elano alone in the box.

zeke
02-10-2009, 03:23 PM
Pirlo's a fricken giveaway machine today. God he bugs me.

2-0 brazil on a sweet goal from Robinho after Pirlo handed it to him at the top of the box.

zeke
02-10-2009, 04:55 PM
tough 2-0 loss, but a great game.

italy's early goal that would have put them up 1-0 should have counted, but the second disallowed goal was legit.

Pirlo gets the goat horns for that brutal giveaway for Brazil's second goal.

stil, great game. love seeing the two best teams in the world going at it.

first loss for Italy since 2004.

Fitzgerald#11
02-10-2009, 05:34 PM
more friendlies tommorow too. France - Argentina, Spain - England stick out

j_15
02-10-2009, 08:50 PM
Damn, I could have gone to this game, but I passed the tickets up because I guessed that both teams would just play their reserves.

Caught the second half on tv and wished I'd gone.

lecoqsportif
02-10-2009, 10:45 PM
Alves and Pato come on as subs. lol Man, are they deep.

Was La Selección made up entirely of European-based players?

zeke
02-10-2009, 10:50 PM
some weird stuff from Lippi as well, only bringing on Toni, Rossi, Camoranesi, Perrotta in the 2nd half.

Rossi looked real good.

Fitzgerald#11
02-11-2009, 10:30 AM
Alves and Pato come on as subs. lol Man, are they deep.

Was La Selección made up entirely of European-based players?
they were missing Kaka too

jrsuperstar
02-11-2009, 11:56 AM
I think what is most interesting is that Brazil is now entrenched in London. Who would have thought twenty years ago, that Brazil would fancy playing most of their friendlies in Europe, and especially at the home stadium of one of the most recognized and famous football clubs in the world, Arsenal. Man, to me that is what is the most shocking. What next Italy playing all their games in Manchester:) How things have changed.

Be prepared for an influx of Italians into the most famous league in the world. I think it is interesting to see the work that Capello and Zola are doing, and that it can only benefit everyone involved in the game.

It will be interesting to see how Villa will proceed in the next month or so. As the sole club in the EPL that is comprised primarily of UK born players, it will be interesting to see their effect internationally and in the EPL. Wouldn't it be something if Arsenal or Chelsea failed to make it into the Champions League next year? It will also be interesting to see whether O'Neil can match wits with the Europeans, as their style of play is very British, and does not tend to do well across the channel.

As most of you are not familiar with German football and its politics, I will say that I have obtained tickets to see one of the most loved politically correct teams in the world. Yes, those dastardly demons from Hamburg, FC St. Pauli. Nothing like showing off your tats and threads at a home match at Millerntor. It should be quite a party:)

zeke
02-11-2009, 01:53 PM
Yeah, just wait until Italy wipes the floor with England in 2 weeks.

zeke
02-11-2009, 01:54 PM
they were missing Kaka too

And Italy was missing Totti.

jrsuperstar
02-11-2009, 02:37 PM
Yeah, just wait until Italy wipes the floor with England in 2 weeks.

To me all of Italian football can be summed up in one word Luca Toni. I love when he does that " ya all crazy" motion with his hand when he scores. It looks kind of cool, but at the same time kind of crazy. Reminds me of all the Luca Toni look-a-likes that were in line for tickets at the match I saw in Munich in November. At first I thought some of them really were Luca!!

Fitzgerald#11
02-11-2009, 02:59 PM
Brazil can't get top teams to come and play in Brazil to there almost forced to play their games in Europe, Emirates being thir "home"

j_15
02-11-2009, 04:55 PM
Yeah, just wait until Italy wipes the floor with England in 2 weeks.

You'll be disappointed.

JaysCyYoung
02-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Nah, Italy will do the same thing they always do: play trapping football for 92 minutes, then dive in injury-time and end up winning on the ensuing penalty. Like always.

j_15
02-11-2009, 05:37 PM
Could well be right.

Although young Ronaldo can dive with the best of them.

Fitzgerald#11
02-11-2009, 05:43 PM
hopefully England's got Gerrard, Rooney and Walcott back by then

jrsuperstar
02-11-2009, 05:56 PM
Spain simply outclass England. It is not for nought that they are ranked number one in the world. Capello has his work cut out for him. His first real poor performance under his command. Knowing him, he will make sure that the next time England play against a quality team of Spain's abilities, he will change his tactics accordingly. A good dose of reality to England, they will bounce back and show that they are still a team to be reckoned with.

j_15
02-11-2009, 06:01 PM
Yeah Spain deserved their win for sure.

I'm kinda glad we lost this one. It'll keep expectations realistic, and keep the media in check from over-hyping this team.

Without Gerrard, Rooney and Rio it wasn't an embarrassment. This team as it is isnt going to be good enough to win a major competition, but we can certainly be more competitive than we have been in recent years.

lecoqsportif
02-11-2009, 09:15 PM
Yah, it was a good chance to take a look at some new guys against the elite. And the Sanchez Pizjuan is supposed to be tough away building - intense crowd.

jrsuperstar
02-11-2009, 09:48 PM
I think what it has shown is the following:

a) A replacement for James has to be implemented before SAfrica. Calamity James is a potential for disaster.

b)Against possession orientated teams like Spain, one can not afford to give up possession of the ball cheaply. For England this means that rather than streaking down the sides at a 100 miles an hour and blindly crossing into no man's land, you've got to slow down the pace and let the opposing team become frustrated with not having possession.

c)A dearth in natural born strikers has always been a problem recently with England. When a chance arises there can be no second doubts and no hesitation. Many of the players who played today were second stringers but hopefully some will make a contribution such as Owen did in his heyday.

lecoqsportif
02-12-2009, 01:19 AM
So... they need to find a top-flight keeper and 2 new world class strikers within 18 months that aren't in already in the national team set-up and have obviously been ignored by the hundreds of scouts that scour the country. Oh, and they have to completely rethink how the game is played, switching from a fast pace game based on attacks down the flanks and counters to a possession game that is rarely seen in the Prem.

Oy. 2014, anyone?

j_15
02-12-2009, 06:08 AM
Replacement for James isnt too hard, if Green can replicate his form for West Ham then he is the man for the job. Sadly though the two best young goalkeepers Foster and Hart are now understudies for their clubs teams.

Just gotta accept that we dont have the strength in all positions required to seriously compete for the world cup, unless a few absolute jems are uncovered in the next year which seems unlikely. But even making the competition would be a success for me, after having to watch the Euros without England last summer.

lecoqsportif
02-12-2009, 08:47 PM
They're the best team in their group and should qualify for 2010.

They're good money to get to get out of the group stages and perhaps to the QFs. A semi-final appearance would be beyond expectations.

But hey, Greece won the Euro in '04, right? Anything is possible.

blaghaus
02-12-2009, 09:24 PM
England missed Gerrard last night. A midfielder who could push Spain back on their heels a bit. Still, Spain are a fantastic team.

Anyway, my team, Everton, are doing great. started the season slowly, but their form since November has been great, despite some heavy injuries. Plus, we beat liverpool which means everything.

TimHorton
02-12-2009, 09:37 PM
Tim Cahill is a legend.

lecoqsportif
02-12-2009, 09:56 PM
England missed Gerrard last night. A midfielder who could push Spain back on their heels a bit. Still, Spain are a fantastic team.

Anyway, my team, Everton, are doing great. started the season slowly, but their form since November has been great, despite some heavy injuries. Plus, we beat liverpool which means everything.

Moyes has done a great job. Terrific manager.

blaghaus
02-12-2009, 10:02 PM
Tim Cahill is a legend.

I love him in a way a man can only love his favourite player.

eason97
02-13-2009, 12:33 AM
Tim Cahill is one of my favourite player as well.

How a guy this short can win most of the headers is beyond me.

And his goal celebrations are top notch too.

j_15
02-13-2009, 06:47 AM
I really like Cahill. But everytime I see him play he reminds me of what could have been. Before Everton signed him my team (Crystal Palace) had a deal in place for him, but at the last minute his agent demanded a separate fee for arranging the deal which Palace deemed extortionate. So our Chairman pulled the plug.

Shame, because he would have had a real impact for us.

blaghaus
02-13-2009, 01:15 PM
Tim Cahill is one of my favourite player as well.

How a guy this short can win most of the headers is beyond me.

And his goal celebrations are top notch too.

Timing his jump and finding that yard of space. You can't teach that.

arteta is also an exceptional player, and it shows how good spain's midfield is that he can't get a game for them.

zeke
02-13-2009, 04:27 PM
One thing I never understood is why England for some reason can never find themselves a half-decent keeper.

blaghaus
02-13-2009, 04:30 PM
One thing I never understood is why England for some reason can never find themselves a half-decent keeper.

I know, it was their strongest position until Seaman retired.

zeke
02-13-2009, 04:34 PM
you're saying Seaman was good?

blaghaus
02-13-2009, 04:42 PM
you're saying Seaman was good?

Yes, he was. You saying he wasn't?

HolyPuck
02-13-2009, 04:43 PM
Seaman was top class.

zeke
02-13-2009, 04:46 PM
yeah, I think Seaman was pretty much shite, to be honest.

he wouldn't have been in the goaltending picture in most other countries.

blaghaus
02-13-2009, 04:57 PM
yeah, I think Seaman was pretty much shite, to be honest.

he wouldn't have been in the goaltending picture in most other countries.

Shame you think that, because you're way off.

HolyPuck
02-13-2009, 05:02 PM
I remember him robbing Paul Peschosolido in the FA cup. Unbelievable save, ill find the youtube.

HolyPuck
02-13-2009, 05:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whHyHXnLCIw

blaghaus
02-13-2009, 05:04 PM
Yeah a tremendous save.

lecoqsportif
02-13-2009, 06:08 PM
arteta is also an exceptional player, and it shows how good spain's midfield is that he can't get a game for them.

Agree on both counts. If he played for one of the Big 4, he'd be hyped up big time.

Metalleaf
02-13-2009, 06:12 PM
England missed Gerrard last night. A midfielder who could push Spain back on their heels a bit. Still, Spain are a fantastic team.

Anyway, my team, Everton, are doing great. started the season slowly, but their form since November has been great, despite some heavy injuries. Plus, we beat liverpool which means everything.

I have a lot of friends and family that are big Liverpool supporters, needless to say I've been bragging recently. :D

MyNameIsJonas
02-13-2009, 10:53 PM
looks like the habs might beat the Avs

Metalleaf
02-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Everton just beat Aston Villa to move into the quarter-finals of the FA Cup. Fcking awesome!!!

j_15
02-15-2009, 12:22 PM
Villa were aweful, but they are entitled to an off day the way they have played so far this season. Would love to see Everton or Arsenal win the FA Cup....and Liverpool win nothing.

Seaman was a good keeper, but that Ronaldinho goal in the world cup should have been saved, and then who knows what could have happened.

Foster and Hart are promising, just a shame they are both 2nd in line at their club sides. The Peterborough goalie (I forget his name) is also supposed to be a bright prospect.

zeke
02-15-2009, 12:52 PM
I don't get how you guys think Seaman was a good keeper. We used to laugh about how he was the best england had.


Anyways.....big Milan derby this afternoon.

Metalleaf
02-15-2009, 12:58 PM
Meh hate both teams. Go Juve!!

lecoqsportif
02-15-2009, 01:26 PM
Yuck. Juve are evil. On par with "Raul" Madrid, ManUre and BayernSkum.

lecoqsportif
02-15-2009, 01:30 PM
I don't get how you guys think Seaman was a good keeper. We used to laugh about how he was the best england had.


I'll always remember Ronaldinho punking him in the '02 WC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExUX7MBk5UM


Hee hee hee.

j_15
02-15-2009, 01:34 PM
Yeah I was furious about that goal.

I never thought Seaman was great, but I thought he was solid enough. At least it was obvious he was the best we had so there was some consistency. Now theres alot more confusion.


On the topic of the Milan derby, there is a thread open in the soccer forum about it. Should be a good game.

lecoqsportif
02-15-2009, 01:36 PM
To be fair, against most you'd expect a ball to the far post.

But that was Brazil, you need to stay a little closer to the goal line and let the other deal with a cross.

Edit: The little stutter step was deadly, he obviously made up his mind to come out and play a cross.

CBJ
02-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Soccer is amazing, but nobody beats Germany on a cheap 1-0 win (ahem, Spain) last year!

No really, I like Germany. Michael Ballack is an amazing player and that little shithead who scored that 1-0 victory last year sucks ass, and it was a cheap goal..

lecoqsportif
02-15-2009, 01:42 PM
Ballack is talented. The free kick he took against Austria was bonkers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvN6kETupWE

But he's a petulant infant. Toxic, IMO.

CBJ
02-15-2009, 01:44 PM
But he's a petulant infant. Toxic, IMO.
eh, I disagree but say what you want..

j_15
02-15-2009, 02:15 PM
I couldn't stand Ballack in his first season at Chelsea. All that talent, and he looked like he was struggling to run for all the money in his pocket.

zeke
02-15-2009, 02:59 PM
this has been a great match so far, although no goals yet.

zeke
02-15-2009, 03:03 PM
ADRIANO!!!

HAND OF GOD!!

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-15-2009, 03:04 PM
He armed it into the net. Typical Inter.

Maicon is crazy good though.

zeke
02-15-2009, 03:10 PM
it irks me that this great Italian derby is all about the brazilians - Maicon, Adriano, Cesar, Pato.

Leafovic
02-15-2009, 03:10 PM
Can't wait for March..important qualifiers..i'm already shaking thinking of it.

TheCountofMonteCristo
02-15-2009, 03:10 PM
it irks me that this great Italian derby is all about the brazilians - Maicon, Adriano, Cesar, Pato.

everyone knows the best soccer players in the world are Brazillian, why are you surprised?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-15-2009, 03:22 PM
The Stank

2-0 Inter

j_15
02-15-2009, 03:28 PM
Nice goal by Stankovic.

Pato looks a little too isolated. They need to get him more support if they are going to get back into it.

zeke
02-15-2009, 10:36 PM
that was a cracker of a derby.

as for Pato being isolated - that's what happens when Kaka is injured.

Leafovic
02-18-2009, 03:07 PM
Anybody watching the Uefa Cup?

I'm watching PSG - Wolfsburg

HolyPuck
02-18-2009, 03:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OUmb4A-8ss

HolyPuck
02-18-2009, 03:26 PM
ps. I'm watching Milan vs Werder

Fitzgerald#11
02-24-2009, 05:03 PM
United were real lucky to get out with a draw today.

jrsuperstar
02-24-2009, 05:54 PM
United were real lucky to get out with a draw today.

Based on the first half they deserved to be up by two or three goals. They will still progress at the expense of the Italians. Love them or hate them they are the class of Europe at the moment. What is shocking is that Fergie believes they will only get better. His ability to stock his team with the best youngsters from around the world, and nuture them until they become superstars is remarkable. As they say, when United come a knockin, how can you say no. They will only get better.

Arsenal also should have been up two or three to nil. Is there any other team in the world that is more beautiful to watch? It will be interesting to see how they proceed.

Fitzgerald#11
02-24-2009, 05:59 PM
Wonder if they can get Walcott and/or Fabregas back by the next leg

jrsuperstar
02-24-2009, 06:29 PM
Wonder if they can get Walcott and/or Fabregas back by the next leg

As an England supporter, I have to say that Walcott gives Arsenal and the England squad an added boost in creativity and offense. With Walcott and Cesc in top form, Arsenal can be difficult to break down. My only criticism is that since Henry left, the Gunners lack a talisman who can come up with the big goals when needed. It would have been nice to have seen Henry in his prime playing with the current squad when healthy.

zeke
02-24-2009, 06:33 PM
Great match between two of the best teams in the world today in Milan.

Two well-organized sides attacking well but also defending strongly.

ManU had the edge in the 1st half, and Inter had the edge in the 2nd.

But very even overall on the day.

Inter has the edge heading over to England as they managed to keep the clean sheet on home turf.

Very questionable decision by Mourinho to start Rivas over Cordoba - strange decisiosn which he reversed at halftime to great success.

And very, very impressive european debut from young 18 year old italian left back Santon - just excellent play all over, attacking the wing and defending against the likes of Ronaldo at the back.



Unfortunately, Roma couldn't handle Arsenal's speed at all today....they were lucky to escape with only a 1 goal loss.

zeke
02-24-2009, 06:35 PM
Based on the first half they deserved to be up by two or three goals. They will still progress at the expense of the Italians. Love them or hate them they are the class of Europe at the moment. What is shocking is that Fergie believes they will only get better. His ability to stock his team with the best youngsters from around the world, and nuture them until they become superstars is remarkable. As they say, when United come a knockin, how can you say no. They will only get better.

Arsenal also should have been up two or three to nil. Is there any other team in the world that is more beautiful to watch? It will be interesting to see how they proceed.

Sorry, Jr., but Barcelona is by far and away BOTH the "class of Europe at the moment" AND "the most beautiful to watch".

MindzEye
02-24-2009, 06:36 PM
They had Henry in his prime playing with a better squad though...It pains me to say it, but that squad was brilliant...European chokers no doubt, but brilliant domestically.

zeke
02-24-2009, 06:42 PM
And I can't not mention how horrible the ref was in the Inter-ManU match.

He certainly didn't do Inter any favours, either.

TimHorton
02-24-2009, 06:43 PM
I believe the current champions are the class of Europe until someone does something crazy like beating them.

MindzEye
02-24-2009, 06:43 PM
Sorry, Jr., but Barcelona is by far and away BOTH the "class of Europe at the moment" AND "the most beautiful to watch".

They're the what now?

Far and away the class of Europe? I must have missed it while I was distracted due to the incredible glare coming off of all the hardware recently added to the trophy room at Old Trafford.

zeke
02-24-2009, 06:49 PM
I guess you guys haven't been watching Barcelona much.

They're far and away the best team in the world right now.

Just spectacular.

TimHorton
02-24-2009, 06:51 PM
I guess you missed us not losing either.....its cool, your ABUism is well known.

zeke
02-24-2009, 06:56 PM
The likes of ManU and Inter are excellent, excellent teams right now.....but neither compares to Barcelona at the moment.

They're the prohibitive favorite this year.

Fitzgerald#11
02-24-2009, 08:00 PM
Overall this season I'd agree but their current form coming into today has not been great. Was suprised they only tied Lyon too. Don't get to see a lot of Messi so hopefully they go through, he's a joy to watch.

Fitzgerald#11
02-24-2009, 08:03 PM
As an England supporter, I have to say that Walcott gives Arsenal and the England squad an added boost in creativity and offense. With Walcott and Cesc in top form, Arsenal can be difficult to break down. My only criticism is that since Henry left, the Gunners lack a talisman who can come up with the big goals when needed. It would have been nice to have seen Henry in his prime playing with the current squad when healthy.
sucks that Abedeyor can't find the form he had last year but Van Persie been playing real well of late.

blaghaus
02-24-2009, 08:46 PM
Inter were woeful in the first half, I assume they got a bollocking from their manager at half time because they came out with a much better attitude second half.

Who says you need goals for a game to be a good spectacle?

Bermygoon
02-24-2009, 09:07 PM
Inter were woeful in the first half, I assume they got a bollocking from their manager at half time because they came out with a much better attitude second half.

Who says you need goals for a game to be a good spectacle?

Yeah good game, you have to consider that a win for MUFC though. With their defensive problems a draw is a good result away from home.
Can't wait for March 11!

blaghaus
02-24-2009, 09:34 PM
Yeah good game, you have to consider that a win for MUFC though. With their defensive problems a draw is a good result away from home.
Can't wait for March 11!

I take it "defensive problems" is sarcastic! :thumbup:

JaysCyYoung
02-24-2009, 09:39 PM
Great match between two of the best teams in the world today in Milan.

Two well-organized sides attacking well but also defending strongly.

ManU had the edge in the 1st half, and Inter had the edge in the 2nd.

But very even overall on the day.

Inter has the edge heading over to England as they managed to keep the clean sheet on home turf.
Very questionable decision by Mourinho to start Rivas over Cordoba - strange decisiosn which he reversed at halftime to great success.

And very, very impressive european debut from young 18 year old italian left back Santon - just excellent play all over, attacking the wing and defending against the likes of Ronaldo at the back.



Unfortunately, Roma couldn't handle Arsenal's speed at all today....they were lucky to escape with only a 1 goal loss.

Huh? The away team drawing a match away from home always gives them the advantage.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-24-2009, 09:45 PM
Huh? The away team drawing a match away from home always gives them the advantage.

Not when it's a 0-0 tie.

Any tie (other than 0-0) in England, and Inter moves on because of away goals.

Man U is at a disadvantage without any away goals. They have to win, or else they're out. All Inter needs is a tie.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-24-2009, 09:51 PM
I was disappointed by Roma. They were playing well heading into this game. They just played way too cautiously -- and that's not their style.

But im confident we will see a much better Roma squad back at the olympico.

zeke
02-24-2009, 10:27 PM
Huh? The away team drawing a match away from home always gives them the advantage.


ManU has to win now.

Inter need only tie.

JaysCyYoung
02-24-2009, 10:28 PM
Not when it's a 0-0 tie.

Any tie (other than 0-0) in England, and Inter moves on because of away goals.

Man U is at a disadvantage without any away goals. They have to win, or else they're out. All Inter needs is a tie.

That really makes no sense.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-24-2009, 10:35 PM
That really makes no sense.


Man U has to win to go through. Any kind of tie (1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4 etc) and they're out.

Inter can go through with any tie (or win)

(0-0 tie goes to extra time)

What exactly doesn't make sense?

MindzEye
02-24-2009, 10:49 PM
But it's at the Theatre of Dreams...so Inter is ****ed

PQ
02-24-2009, 10:54 PM
this is the last time I say it, but Forza Inter

Fitzgerald#11
02-24-2009, 10:55 PM
Anyone see Juninho's free kick goal for Lyon today?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_RQ7e60cmk
he never gets the same pub as Ronaldo or Ronaldinho in terms of free kick takers but some of the goals over the years from him are just crazy

PQ
02-24-2009, 11:05 PM
Valdes should've had it, but Juninho is definitely one of the best in the world

j_15
02-25-2009, 05:55 AM
Thing is, away goals count for a reason - they are tougher to obtain than home goals, in theory at least.

So whilst Man Utd have to win at Old Trafford, I wouldn't really say Inter have much of an advantage. Mainly because they won't score, and Utd probably will.

There were chances for both teams last night, but Man Utd had considerably more. They should have been out of sight by half time.

I hope Inter give them a battering at Old Trafford, but its not going to happen.

Zeke, Barca may be playing the best attacking football in Europe right now, but to say ManUtd aren't the best team considering they just set the European record for most clean sheets, the Champions League record for longest unbeaten streak, is questionable.
I remember you saying that the Italian clubs would be wiping the floor with English clubs this week. Not happened so far.

Bermygoon
02-25-2009, 08:47 AM
But it's at the Theatre of Dreams...so Inter is ****ed

QTF

MUFC will have Vidic and a heathly back line and can go back to there normal attacking game. I expect a 2-0 win.

zeke
02-25-2009, 11:30 AM
Zeke, Barca may be playing the best attacking football in Europe right now, but to say ManUtd aren't the best team considering they just set the European record for most clean sheets, the Champions League record for longest unbeaten streak, is questionable.


hey man, don't argue with me, argue with the bettors.

Barca's prohibitive favorites this year for good reason.

j_15
02-25-2009, 12:47 PM
Fair enough.

I'd like Barca to win it, as I love watching them play. Then again, I'd be happy with anyone winning it other than Man Utd and Liverpool.

blaghaus
02-25-2009, 01:52 PM
Fingeres crossed liverpool get absolutely snotted everywhere to night.

MindzEye
02-25-2009, 01:54 PM
That would be super

MindzEye
02-25-2009, 01:56 PM
Video of a typical Serie A ref at work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-3cuCEt9k8

Fitzgerald#11
02-25-2009, 01:57 PM
Think with Liverpool is there a different (better) team in champs league play. They have Gerrard back which opens it up for them more and of course there in Anfield today. Should be a good game though.

zeke
02-25-2009, 02:07 PM
It was funny seeing ManU dive all over the place yesterday against an Italian team.

zeke
02-25-2009, 02:11 PM
Stack the box with defenders, and then dive for free kicks for "offense".

The ManU way.

Artnes
02-25-2009, 02:13 PM
sounds like sour grapes to me

MindzEye
02-25-2009, 03:07 PM
Winning trophies is the ManUtd way.

blaghaus
02-25-2009, 03:31 PM
Good lord Liverpool are negative.

JaysCyYoung
02-25-2009, 04:27 PM
Stack the box with defenders, and then dive for free kicks for "offense".

The ManU way.

:lol

I thought we were talking about the Italian National Team's strategy in EVERY SINGLE INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION.

Like that shit with Australia in the 2006 World Cup (that was definitely not a penalty) or against Germany in Euro 2008. Disgusting play.

zeke
02-25-2009, 04:34 PM
and Chelsea hangs on under a ton of pressure from Juve over the last half hour of the game.

Chelsea's goal was probably offside, but they deserved the lead.


Juve and Roma have their work cut out for them going back to Italy both down 1-0.

Fitzgerald#11
02-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Nedved almost had one at the end there of the defelection. Well played game and looking forward to return leg. Didn't see the other games but a late goal gave Liverpool the win over Real and Bayen just ran over poor Lisbon.

Steve07
02-25-2009, 04:44 PM
Panathinaikos got robbed hard core against Vilareal today. After an amazing goal by Karagounis to put the Greeks 1-0 up with an away goal the ref gave the Spanish a pen in Pao's box. The pen was awarded very wrong it was the Vila player that pushed the Pao player from behind and he called it on the def. Also in the first half a free kick was taken by Pao and the Vila goalie caught the ball and held it TO HIS CHEST inside the goal. Should have ended 2-0 stupid ref. Can't believe Real lost to those scouse ****s!!

j_15
02-25-2009, 05:09 PM
Stack the box with defenders, and then dive for free kicks for "offense".

The ManU way.

Haha. So I'm guessing last night was the first time you have watched Man Utd?
Because you are way off with that statement.

So much for the Italian teams 'wiping the floor' with the English teams this week.

Fitzgerald#11
03-10-2009, 04:18 PM
What is with these refs in the Liverpool game? Two terrible calls in the first half hour

eason97
03-10-2009, 04:43 PM
Essien = Chelsea X Factor

blaghaus
03-10-2009, 04:53 PM
Essien = Chelsea X Factor

Most complete player in the world. My choice for best player in the world.

Fitzgerald#11
03-10-2009, 04:58 PM
its crazy the difference in level Liverpool play with Gerrard in the lineup

blaghaus
03-10-2009, 05:00 PM
its crazy the difference in level Liverpool play with Gerrard in the lineup

I'd look good against this Real side. absolutely woeful.

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:01 PM
Essien = Chelsea X Factor

his persistence was a beaut! the free kick by drogba before essien's goal should have been a goal. buffon pinched the ball between his hand and the right post. the replays looked as if the ball was completely across the line, but no goal was awarded. buffon looked like he had just gotten away with murder. thank god chelsea made up for it, but it COULD be 2-1 right now. juve got away with one.

bayrider
03-10-2009, 05:10 PM
Liverpool is spanking Madrid right now (not sure if it's live or not) 3-0

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:13 PM
yeah they are and yeah it is. :cheers2:

eason97
03-10-2009, 05:17 PM
**** you Balletti!

Fitzgerald#11
03-10-2009, 05:18 PM
really that was the worst wall attempt ive ever seen

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:20 PM
that was baaaaaad. :(

bayrider
03-10-2009, 05:21 PM
crap, i missed it... what happened?

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:24 PM
balletti with a handball on a free kick gave juve a PK and del piero capitalized. :nono

Fitzgerald#11
03-10-2009, 05:25 PM
Free kick for Juve outside the box, the kick goes into the wall and for reason Balletti throws his hands up like a girl and its a penalty shot. This about 5 minutes after he came on for Eissen

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:28 PM
DROGBA!!!!!!!!!!!!

2-2. juve needs two goals to be on the winning side now. with under 10 mins, doubtful. :cheers2:

eason97
03-10-2009, 05:29 PM
Drogba, top 5 striker in the world.

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:31 PM
you won't get an argument from me. :D

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:38 PM
how the **** did balletti not score there???

Fitzgerald#11
03-10-2009, 05:38 PM
Drogba's awakend from the dead the past 2 months or so

the_undead
03-10-2009, 05:42 PM
and his goal was evidence of the fact. just pretty.

eason97
03-10-2009, 05:45 PM
did Zeke pass out?