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Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 05:33 PM
the sad thing is is that the idea to play Bergeron and Crosby together actually IS because of the 2005 world juniors.

think about that.

decisions for the 2010 Olympics being made considering a 2005 high schoolers tournament.
I agree... ridiculous.

Put Crosby with someone who is either a great playmaker to set him up, or with a great sniper so he can set him up. Why in the world would they put him with a guy who is probably their worst offensive player.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 05:37 PM
I heard Pacioretty.

I would puke if it's MaxPac. He has had a rough year but he has a lot of potential and shouldn't be given away for a pending UFA unless it's an impact player.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 05:38 PM
When has hockeyleaks ever posted something that wasn't made up?

I'm not claiming that the rumor is true, but there are several sources for this rumor.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-11-2010, 05:59 PM
Since Ovechkin has been named captain:

Team: 17-1-1 (151 pt pace)
Ovechkin: 19 gms, 16 gls, 38 pts, +24 (82 gms, 69 gls, 164 pts, +104)

Montana
02-11-2010, 06:01 PM
That's fvck-diculous.

corksens
02-11-2010, 06:02 PM
Ovechkin > Crosby.

WellPlayed
02-11-2010, 06:03 PM
Wow. And Malkin is starting to heat up a bit. Russia is going to be ridiculous.

leafman101
02-11-2010, 06:05 PM
That Washington team has to easily be the best we've seen since the mid 90's wings.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 06:07 PM
Yeah Ovechkin is a scoring machine. I still don't think he's the best player in the league though. He really is strictly offense.... As IrishWolfman said about Filatov, "he thinks that back checking involves paying the bill at a restaurant."

In that game against the Habs last night I can't even count how many times Ovechkin was floating around the blueline/neutral zone while the Habs were in the offensive zone putting on pressure.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-11-2010, 06:08 PM
This is a great era of hockey.

Ovechkin and Crosby may just be two of the top 5 greatest forwards ever.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-11-2010, 06:12 PM
Yeah Ovechkin is a scoring machine. I still don't think he's the best player in the league though. He really is strictly offense.... As IrishWolfman said about Filatov, "he thinks that back checking involves paying the bill at a restaurant."

In that game against the Habs last night I can't even count how many times Ovechkin was floating around the blueline/neutral zone while the Habs were in the offensive zone putting on pressure.

Nah. Ovechkin dominates offensively, physically, psychologically. Nobody since Eric Lindros in his prme has his combination of skill, speed, and toughness.

And that Caps team is winning with backup goaltending. Imagine if they had an elite goalie.

mbow30
02-11-2010, 06:15 PM
Ovechkin is really upping the ante this year -- then again, so is Crosby, who has rally carried Pittsburgh. Fleury has slumped, the wingers aren't scoring, Gonchar has spent time on the IR and Malkin hasn't looked his usual dominant self. Given that the Pens have really needed Crosby to start and finish plays on his own, and he has delivered in a big way this season.

Still, Ovechkin has been so good over the past month or so that I think he's pulled ahead as far as the best player in the league designation goes.

I still think Washington needs to add another defender. If they can add another #1 or a #2 defenseman then they are going to win the cup. Hell, maybe even with Theodore starting.

They're scary good up front. The best, most well rounded and deepest offense we have seen in a long, long time.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 06:16 PM
Ovechkin > Crosby.

No doubt that Ovie is a better point producer at this point in time.... but Sid's been putting up some alright numbers lately too.

Past 16 games 15 goals 10 assists 25 points. He is also one of the best faceoff guys in the league, he's won 97 more than the next highest guy. Plus the guy is one of the most tenacious back checkers in the league.

LeafOfFaith
02-11-2010, 06:21 PM
The Caps are my pick to win it this year, even without any more moves.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 06:24 PM
Nah. Ovechkin dominates offensively, physically, psychologically. Nobody since Eric Lindros in his prme has his combination of skill, speed, and toughness.

And that Caps team is winning with backup goaltending. Imagine if they had an elite goalie.

No doubt he is awesome... but that team is awesome in general. You could actually replace Ovechkin with any decent player and that team would continue to roll.

The Pens team is basically 5 guys right now and Fleury is playing like shit. So really you have Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Gonchar. They are in big time need of a top 3 dman and a couple good wingers.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-11-2010, 06:24 PM
I picked a Caps/Hawks final at the start of the year (with the caps winning). I like those picks. But the Pens still scare me.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 06:25 PM
The Caps are my pick to win it this year, even without any more moves.

Yeah, I can't really see them being knocked off. Maybe the Hawks but they may be a bit too soft.

The Pens could still beat the Caps with a couple half decent moves.... and MAF coming up big at the right time.

zeke
02-11-2010, 06:26 PM
Phaneuf >

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-11-2010, 06:29 PM
No doubt he is awesome... but that team is awesome in general. You could actually replace Ovechkin with any decent player and that team would continue to roll..

Without Ovechkin, they're a playoff team. But not a cup contender.

It's not easy replacing 60 gls, 120 pts.


The Pens team is basically 5 guys right now and Fleury is playing like shit. So really you have Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Gonchar. They are in big time need of a top 3 dman and a couple good wingers.

The Pens are the only team capable of beating the Caps imo.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 06:37 PM
In case you guys didn't see this.

Gorges took a Mike Green slap shot to the back of the head last night. One of the scarier things I've ever seen on the ice.

YouTube- Mike Green Slapshot Hits Josh Gorges in the Head - Feb 10th 2010 (HD)

http://habsinsideout.com/files/hio/images/Habs-vs.-Capitals--13.preview.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/RGM81/JoshHelmet.jpg

Check out the imprint on the helmet.

JackBurton
02-11-2010, 06:39 PM
Heh, the Habs just gave up a second rounder for Dominic Moore. I understood the Leafs getting that for him last year, but this year?

Montana
02-11-2010, 06:40 PM
That imprint is awesome.

JackBurton
02-11-2010, 06:40 PM
I picked a Caps/Hawks final at the start of the year (with the caps winning).

That was exactly my pick too.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 06:41 PM
Heh, the Habs just gave up a second rounder for Dominic Moore. I understood the Leafs getting that for him last year, but this year?

Please tell me this is a joke.... please.

Volcanologist
02-11-2010, 06:41 PM
Wow, that middle one is freaky.

JackBurton
02-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Please tell me this is a joke.... please.

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-11-2010, 06:43 PM
if dom moore can get a 2nd, stemp should be able to get a 2nd as well.

i'd hold out for a late 1st for poni -- he's one of the best forwards out there right now.

Habspatrol
02-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Heh, the Habs just gave up a second rounder for Dominic Moore. I understood the Leafs getting that for him last year, but this year?

That's a horrible trade... thankfully it's a 2011 pick. By all accounts it's a very weak draft class.

JackBurton
02-11-2010, 06:44 PM
Yup. Moore getting a second is great news.

number17
02-11-2010, 06:49 PM
All sellers: "Thanks Gauthier."

Moore had 41 pts in 61 games last year when he was traded for a 2nd

He has 17 pts in 48 games this year ... and he STILL fetched a 2nd?!

And this is the guy who couldn't find a team to sign him until a month into the season .... boy oh boy.

JackBurton
02-11-2010, 06:51 PM
Moore turning down Burke's offer is hilarious.

habs25th
02-11-2010, 06:52 PM
All sellers: "Thanks Gauthier."

Moore had 41 pts in 61 games last year when he was traded for a 2nd

He has 17 pts in 48 games this year ... and he STILL fetched a 2nd?!

And this is the guy who couldn't find a team to sign him until a month into the season .... boy oh boy.

Remember though, everyone will bust in 2011, might as well be a 7th rounder.

LeafOfFaith
02-11-2010, 06:58 PM
Well, the 2011 2nd is a little different, not because it's in a supposedly weaker draft, but because it's quite a ways away before Florida sees any benefit from that trade.

But even so, a 2nd in any draft for Moore after his play this year?? Silly.

But this bodes very well for us. Stemp is now at least a 2nd, Primeau and Exelby a 3rd, and Poni's gotta be a 1st.

zeke
02-11-2010, 07:00 PM
Campoli: 1st
Vermette: 2nd + Leclaire
Grabo: 2nd + 5th
Gill: 2nd + 5th
Antropov: 2nd
Moore: 2nd
Kilger: 3rd
Mayers: 3rd
Belak: 5th

the only joke is that Antropov only got a 2nd rounder.

LeafOfFaith
02-11-2010, 07:02 PM
Well there was the conditional 4th.

What was the condition again? Something like Sather needing to be named Miss USA within the next five years, or something just as reasonable.

Oh yeah, it was the Rangers getting to the third round.

axlsalinger
02-11-2010, 07:19 PM
Taking a look at the standings, the Top 3 are no surprise (Washington 89 pts, San Jose 87, Chicago 83). But the # 4 and 5 teams in the entire NHL?

4. Phoenix Coyotes 79
5. Los Angeles Kings 75 (tied with NJ)

So hard to believe that the Coyotes have played this well, in that situation. And it's nice to see the Kings have some success.

Also, how many teams are more than 7 points out of a playoff spot?

4. Carolina, Toronto, Columbus, Edmonton.

Not a lot of sellers right now, which helps our bargaining position as well.

LeafOfFaith
02-11-2010, 07:20 PM
And I'm not sure those other teams even have that many attractive UFAs.

Anyone care to provide a list?

leafman101
02-11-2010, 07:48 PM
There aren't many attractive free agents period this year.

MyNameIsJonas
02-12-2010, 12:01 AM
Randy Sexton GM of the year..

Habsy
02-12-2010, 12:25 AM
2011 sucks donkey balls for prospects. I'd be more pissed if it was this year.

Stemp could get you a 2nd in 2011 easily.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 02:39 AM
Every player would yield a better pick in 2011 than they would in 2010.

And a better one in 2012 than in 2011.

Blueman
02-12-2010, 12:10 PM
The Hurricanes traded Matt Cullen to the Ottawa Senators for defenceman Alexandre Picard and a second round pick.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=309934

corksens
02-12-2010, 12:18 PM
Ottawa waives Cheechoo today too.

And gives Brian Murray a 1-year contract extension.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 12:27 PM
Looks like 2nd rounders are coming really, really cheap this year.

1st for Poni sounds like a bare minimum to me now.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 12:29 PM
I don't know if Poni will get a 1st, but definitely a 2nd and a solid young player/prospect at worst.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 12:30 PM
it doesn't work that way.

you'll just see something added on top of that second. perhaps an additional second rounder, or a solid prospect.

but i think it's unlikely that a team trades a first rounder for a rental, unless that rental is a legitimate first liner.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 12:40 PM
Poni is about as legitimate a 1st liner as anyone on the trade market right now.

25/50 guy who would improve on those numbers with a Crosby or Malkin as his center.



Anyone get the feeling there isn't gonna be much action today?

mbow30
02-12-2010, 12:44 PM
Ponikarovsky is a good player because he can play with just about anybody and do well. But I wouldn't label him a first liner. That isn't something that can be categorized comparatively -- even if he were the best winger available (which, with Whitney and possibly Frolov available he certainly is not), it does not make him a first liner by virtue of the fact.

He'll fetch something good, because teams will value his size, skating, versatility and scoring. But they aren't going to salivate over him and throw a first round pick Toronto's way.

Frankly, he's probably seen as being pretty comparable to Matt Cullen who was dealt for a bottom pair defender and a second.

Given that he already has 20 goals teams might rank him a little higher, but not high enough to garner a first rounder.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 12:56 PM
First of all, Whitney is just about equal to him in every way right now. And Frolov is worse in just about every way.

17-28-45 in 58 games for Whitney.

13-24-37 in 59 games for Frolov.

19-22-41 in 60 games for Poni.

Poni is a +5 on the worst team in the east. Whitney is -1 and Frolov is -5 on one of the best teams in the NHL.

If anything, Poni is neck and neck with Whitney for top rental player on the market right now.

Apparently, LA is willing to pay a 1st and a prospect for Whitney, but Whitney's demand for a two year extension is what's holding things up.

Now, anything can happen, but all things considered, Poni should be able to land a 1st in a trade.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Whitney has his history working for him. He has been a 70+ point player, and he has playoff experience. He'd be a better pick up than Poni. Until this year he was flat out just a better player, with more experience and leadership.

And I've read Frolov isn't being moved.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 01:19 PM
Whitney was almost a point a game player in 07-08 and 08-09; Frolov has multiple 30 goal 60 point seasons.

I like Ponikarovsky a lot -- but he isn't as good as those guys.

number17
02-12-2010, 01:25 PM
No ... and it'd be wrong to expect the same trade value from Poni as from Whitney.

But Whitney's request for extension only helps us ... with Poni being the 2nd best forward in the market

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 01:26 PM
He's not as good as they USED to be.

But he's as good as or better than them now, based on all the evidence in front of us.

Montana
02-12-2010, 01:43 PM
Whitney will most definitely land more than Poni, (they're rumored to be asking for a 1st + prospect.....were asking for a 2nd + prospect).

Frolov likely won't be dealt, but if he is, it in all likelyhood won't be in a deal comparable to Whitney or Poni's.......he won't be moved for picks/prospects, he'll be moved for another roster player.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 01:45 PM
He's not as good as they USED to be.

But he's as good as or better than them now, based on all the evidence in front of us.

You're looking at it backwards.

At worst Whitney is as good as Poni. At worst. The last 5-10 years he's been a lot better than Poni at his best though. He also has a cup ring. People don't just forget those things.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 01:49 PM
I never said Whitney won't fetch more.

The rumor is a 1st and a prospect.

But if Whitney gets that, then Poni is surely worth a 1st.

Metalleaf
02-12-2010, 01:49 PM
I really hope this doesn't become a theme.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 01:54 PM
Whitney might be a domino here.

Teams trying to get in on him and get him to waive could be holding up trades for other players like Poni.

BG
02-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Remaining salaries:

Ray Whitney: $1,085,233
Alexander Frolov: $886,528
Alexei Ponikarovsky: $643,497

hockeylover
02-12-2010, 02:07 PM
DarrenDreger

Nothing imminent on Ponikarovsky, but there have been offers. Leafs will wait to see if the proposals get better.

hockeylover
02-12-2010, 02:09 PM
TSNBobMcKenzie

Cam Barker, IMO, is the Blackhawk most likely to be traded before March 3, if not sooner.

number17
02-12-2010, 02:10 PM
It could be a domino effect, but teams may get impatient with Whitney's stubborn extension request, and turn to Poni instead.

But then, let's remember this is not exactly trade deadline ... if teams can't get it done today, they can wait till after the Olympics break.

Let's hope no one gets injured.

bayrider
02-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Just imagine if Chicago can unload one of Campbell or Huet...

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 02:19 PM
This pseudo-deadline sucks ass.

JaysCyYoung
02-12-2010, 02:23 PM
Why? It's given fans a lot to get excited about instead of the standard fare of trade deadline disappointment.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 02:30 PM
What's to get excited about?

Nothing's happening.

Which I kinda expected anyway, given that teams will hold out knowing they'll have another crack at getting the price they seek.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 02:32 PM
It makes no sense for sellers to sell now. Values just go up the closer the buyers get to the deadline.

There is plenty of time after the Olympics to make deals.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 02:35 PM
Yup, which makes this roster freeze a big non-event.

The Leafs have 20 minutes to prove me wrong...

number17
02-12-2010, 02:37 PM
You can argue trade value may go higher at the 'real' trade deadline ... but then, if you get the right offer right now, you might as well go for it. There's always the risk players can get injured at the Olympics, and also, once all the buyers have got what they need, then trade value only comes down ...

Metalleaf
02-12-2010, 02:39 PM
There really isn't that much time, the freeze is in 30 minutes, then you have tonight, tomorrow, and Sunday, then the games begin and go til the 28th, the first night back is the 1st of March and the deadline is the 3rd.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 02:42 PM
They get 20+ deals done in one day on the deadline normally. Why would it be any different now.

Its not like teams can't talk for the next two weeks.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 02:44 PM
You can argue trade value may go higher at the 'real' trade deadline ... but then, if you get the right offer right now, you might as well go for it. There's always the risk players can get injured at the Olympics, and also, once all the buyers have got what they need, then trade value only comes down ...

Nah. The more teams buy, the more teams there are that have to keep up.

Don't be the first one to flinch.

JaysCyYoung
02-12-2010, 02:44 PM
Ponikarovsky for

Taylor Beck and a 2nd round pick

or

Eric Tangradi and a 2nd round pick

kthnxbai.

number17
02-12-2010, 02:46 PM
Sounds like Whitney's 3 yrs extension is holding everything off. LA Kings' offer has been accepted by the Canes apparently, but Whitney is not waiving his NTC until he reaches an agreement on a 3 yrs extension. LA is only willing to offer 1 yr extension, and that's at a standstill right now.

And sounds like until the Whitney deal goes, no other deal is happening.

Metalleaf
02-12-2010, 02:47 PM
Whitney should take what he can get.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 02:51 PM
Whitney should take what he can get.

why?

it isn't like he's a shitty third liner like dom moore.

we're talking about a guy who shouldn't get a 3 year deal.. but is talented enough and has a strong enough pedigree that some stupid gm will probably give it to him.

he's kind of being a bitch but i get where he's coming from. it makes sense to try and leverage your position, and it makes absolutely no sense for him to settle on a contract offer.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 02:54 PM
He's being a total ass, holding both Carolina and LA up like that, all in the name of money.

If I were LA, I'd tell Whitney to go **** himself and go for the next best player.

Metalleaf
02-12-2010, 02:56 PM
I understand that, but I'm sure Carolina would oblige him in the offseason, they seem to like to bring back guys like Whitney.

sensbk
02-12-2010, 02:56 PM
But the reason that guys negotiate a NTC clause for the most part is that they don't like to have to uproot their family and find a place to live or whatever. If he moves, he probably wants to do it now and not have to do it again in the summer.

number17
02-12-2010, 02:58 PM
Whitney knows he won't get a 3 yrs deal in the summer at his age, but with the pressure of trade deadline, some GM's may flinch and give in.

That's what he's going for.

With over another 2 weeks till the REAL trade deadline, no reason for Whitney to give in now.

JaysCyYoung
02-12-2010, 03:03 PM
Whitey is a prick who ruined a potentially interesting day. **** him.

axlsalinger
02-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Whitney clearly has more value than Poni as a deadline pickup. However, it is possible for Poni to get a nice return (perhaps even a late first) simply because of the lack of sellers on the market this year.

Montana
02-12-2010, 03:16 PM
That Whitney to L.A. trade had been agreed to over a week ago, that's nothing new. And good on Whitney for using the leverage available to him, he'd be an idiot not to.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 03:24 PM
I really don't think Whitney screwed up anything. This deadline was created by the media, for some reason thinking that 3 days isn't enough time after the deadline to make deals, when really 90% of deals this time of year happen on deadline day.

hockeylover
02-12-2010, 03:24 PM
DarrenDreger: The Minnesota Wild have traded D Kim Johnsson and 2009 first round pick Nick Leddy to Chicago for D Cam Barker.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Good move for Minny.

Montana
02-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Nice deal for Chicago.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Wow, I like Barker. 3rd overall pick just 6 years ago and a good player on a good team, imo.

Traded for a UFA and 16th overall pick last year who doesn't seem that impressive.

Obviously, the Hawks' hand was forced. But damn, that's a real good pick up for Minny.

HolyPuck
02-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Chicago got more than I expected them to.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 03:37 PM
I really don't think Whitney screwed up anything. This deadline was created by the media, for some reason thinking that 3 days isn't enough time after the deadline to make deals, when really 90% of deals this time of year happen on deadline day.

I think it was mostly that they could bring in a guy and get him into a week's worth of practices before playing a game. That's a good opportunity and teams are silly for not pouncing today -- especially since player values pointlessly increase on deadline day.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 03:39 PM
]especially since player values pointlessly increase on deadline day.

Thats the key.

Why would the sellers make deals now? It makes no sense for them.

JaysCyYoung
02-12-2010, 03:42 PM
That's a damn good trade from Chicago's end. Leddy is extremely raw but he still has a boatload of potential and Johnsson can still replace a lot of Barker's lost offence.

number17
02-12-2010, 03:42 PM
The Chicago trade ... I think it's fair. Barker's been rumored to be on the block for a while, and Chicago really had to unload some salaries. Barker's expandable, and Leddy's a pretty good prospect. Maybe not 1st unit material, but should be a solid 2-way 2nd unit guy.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 03:44 PM
Barker is by far the best talent in the deal.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 03:44 PM
Thats the key.

Why would the sellers make deals now? It makes no sense for them.

To not have to pay a player to not play for the next 2 weeks.

The Panthers obviously still did alright for Moore, and the Canes for Cullen.

I think for some secondary pieces -- a guy like Stempniak -- the price might go up from a 3rd to a 2nd.

For somebody like Ponikarovsky or Whitney I think the market is basically set. Teams won't get into a bidding war over these guys.

axlsalinger
02-12-2010, 03:46 PM
Good trade for both sides. Leddy has some potential, so Chicago did pretty well there since they were basically forced to move Barker.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 03:47 PM
There isn't enough money there to make any difference.

Values go up as buyers feel the pressure. Its stupid to miss on that.

Values aren't going down.

This year is no different than any other year. Every other year most of the deals go down on deadline day.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 03:52 PM
I'm surprised most think the Barker trade is fair.

I think Chicago really takes it on the chin on that one, both short term and long term.

Barker is only 23 and last year had 40 points in only 68 games.

He's an amazing pick up for Minny, at a low, low price.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 03:53 PM
2 weeks of a guy making $5mn is nearly $400k. so there definitely is enough money on the table for it to make a difference..

mbow30
02-12-2010, 03:54 PM
I'm surprised most think the Barker trade is fair.

I think Chicago really takes it on the chin on that one, both short term and long term.

Barker is only 23 and last year had 40 points in only 68 games.

He's an amazing pick up for Minny, at a low, low price.

chicago had to clear out salary and he isn't worth the money he is earning.

i like this trade for minnesota a lot, because barker could be a 50 point defenseman and those don't grow on trees.

but considering chicago had to make a move they did alright by bringing in a guy who is (frankly) better than barker right now, and a pretty talented prospect.

it's a good trade from both ends.

axlsalinger
02-12-2010, 04:08 PM
I'm surprised most think the Barker trade is fair.

I think Chicago really takes it on the chin on that one, both short term and long term.

Barker is only 23 and last year had 40 points in only 68 games.

He's an amazing pick up for Minny, at a low, low price.You're treating Nick Leddy like a nothing because you may not have heard of him. He was only drafted last year, and hasn't even turned 19 yet. We have no way of knowing how he'll project, but he was pretty highly rated going into the draft and if the Hawks like him, they get a d-man who is already as good as Barker now, plus a guy that could play for them a few years down the road.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 04:11 PM
He's a midget offensive defensemen, with way less offensive talent than Barker.

All things considered Chicago did well. But in terms of value, they got the lesser package.

JaysCyYoung
02-12-2010, 04:15 PM
Leddy is probably the best Minnesota defenceman to come out of high school since Jordan Leopold (some would argue McDonagh but that's a discussion for another day). He's extremely raw but he has the skating and offensive skills to rate very highly down the road. Get him a few more years of at U of M and he'll be a good one.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 04:21 PM
You're treating Nick Leddy like a nothing because you may not have heard of him. He was only drafted last year, and hasn't even turned 19 yet. We have no way of knowing how he'll project, but he was pretty highly rated going into the draft and if the Hawks like him, they get a d-man who is already as good as Barker now, plus a guy that could play for them a few years down the road.

Imagine trading Schenn for Leddy and Johnsson.

Montana
02-12-2010, 04:23 PM
The nice thing about Barker, is that he's still an RFA in two years, when this contract ends. Which adds to his value from Minny's end.

Given their situation though, I'm still real impressed with what Chicago was able to get in return.

Montana
02-12-2010, 04:25 PM
Imagine trading Schenn for Leddy and Johnsson.

Cam Barker is no Luke Schenn........he's a botched abortion in his own zone.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 04:26 PM
not the same at all.

it's been six years since cam barker was drafted and there are still enormous questions about his ability to hack it as an nhl defender. because he just flat out stinks defensively.

that isn't the case with schenn.


the interesting thing with barker is that he's become an exclusively offensive defenseman -- yet in junior was better known for his defense and physical play.

i guess he jsut had an early growth spurt and packed on muscle better than most 17-18 year olds.

meanwhile, his offensive game has taken some huge steps forward since his junior days. still, defensemen that can't defend have a funny way of ending up in the minors, even if their offensive abilities dictate that they should be in the nhl.

so this isn't a slam dunk for minnesota. there are a lot of question marks surrounding barker.

JaysCyYoung
02-12-2010, 04:27 PM
The Leafs also aren't feeling the cap crunch that the Hawks are feeling so there would be no reasoning for Burke to make a similar trade. Given Chicago's restrictions at this point salary-wise they did pretty well I think.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 04:44 PM
I disagree.

Barker is just 23. He's shown very good offensive ability and is still a +7, regardless of the criticisms.

He's a very good young player with a high ceiling.

The only reason Minny got him is because Chicago ****ed up bad with their RFAs. This is not a good deal for the Hawks going forward.

Leddy may never become an NHLer, and Johnsson is surely gone at the end of the season.

Leddy is a very poor return for Barker.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 04:49 PM
By the way, none of our UFAs better get injured before the real deadline.

I would be a very angry LOF if that happened.

Now if Whitney happened to go on the IR before they traded him, I might chuckle a little.

Preston_Mizzi
02-12-2010, 04:51 PM
I disagree.

Barker is just 23. He's shown very good offensive ability and is still a +7, regardless of the criticisms.

He's a very good young player with a high ceiling.

The only reason Minny got him is because Chicago ****ed up bad with their RFAs. This is not a good deal for the Hawks going forward.

Leddy may never become an NHLer, and Johnsson is surely gone at the end of the season.

Leddy is a very poor return for Barker.

you have never seen cam barker play.

Preston_Mizzi
02-12-2010, 04:51 PM
with that said, i do agree the deal looks good on paper for chicago.. but when you think about it, it really isn't at all.

JaysCyYoung
02-12-2010, 04:52 PM
Barker reminds me of Sandis Ozolinsh in his own zone. Only Ozolinsh was the best offensive defenceman in hockey at one point and Barker isn't.

bayrider
02-12-2010, 04:52 PM
It's a good trade for both sides.

Johnsson replaces Barker for the year, and next season Chicago will probably be able to hang on to Versteeg and/or Byfuglien as a result. Add Leddy to the mix. Despite the disappointing season at UofM, he's still a #1 pick with at least 3 more years of development. A very low risk for Chicago.

Minnesota gets more offense from the blueline to replace Burns who seems to have fallen off the map (imo, was never much of a defenseman anyways). Johnsson was pretty bad, especially in the role he was playing Minny. But in Chicago as a bottom pairing guy, he should be okay.

Montana
02-12-2010, 04:53 PM
you have never seen cam barker play.

was thinking the exact same thing.

Montana
02-12-2010, 04:56 PM
It's a good trade for both sides.

Johnsson replaces Barker for the year, and next season Chicago will probably be able to hang on to Versteeg and/or Byfuglien as a result. Add Leddy to the mix. Despite the disappointing season at UofM, he's still a #1 pick with at least 3 more years of development. A very low risk for Chicago.

Minnesota gets more offense from the blueline to replace Burns who seems to have fallen off the map (imo, was never much of a defenseman anyways). Johnsson was pretty bad, especially in the role he was playing Minny. But in Chicago as a bottom pairing guy, he should be okay.

Brent Burns is still a damn good defenseman (alot better than Barker) he just needs to stay healthy. The injury bug's gotten to him the last two years.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 04:59 PM
I've seen Barker play a few times, and I've never come away thinking that I just watched such a horrible, horrible defender.

I just don't think some unproven mid first round pick who doesn't seem like he has that high a ceiling is a good return for Cam Barker.

bayrider
02-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Brent Burns is still a damn good defenseman (alot better than Barker) he just needs to stay healthy. The injury bug's gotten to him the last two years.

I didn't mean he'd replace Burns on the roster, but to bring in that desperately needed offense Burns isn't giving them right now. Yea, I know about the injuries and all, but when healthy I wouldn't say he's "damn good" because he still acts like a backchecking forward rather than a defenseman for my liking. He does make some incredible plays defensively sometimes which compensates for his lack of steady defense.

I think he's good, but he really needs an anchor next to him to be able to play his game effectively like Markov or Kaberle or Phaneuf need someone they can count on for them. Except that I wouldnt put him on their level.

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:05 PM
Ottawa waives Cheechoo today too.
.

pisses me off that we still have Jeff Finger on our roster.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 05:08 PM
pisses me off that we still have Jeff Finger on our roster.

Waiving Finger might actually do more harm than good if someone actually took at shot at him on recall waivers.

That's $1.75M of dead money for two years.

I'd rather try to find a way to get rid of him outright in a Blake-Giggy type deal than to have $2M of used space for the next couple of years.

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Whitney was almost a point a game player in 07-08 and 08-09; Frolov has multiple 30 goal 60 point seasons.

I like Ponikarovsky a lot -- but he isn't as good as those guys.

I'd make an argument that many GMs would likely prefer Poni over either of those guys right now, because not only has he produced pretty much as well as them this year and last, but he's also much better than them in every other aspect aside from pure offense.

ALthough I'm sure many GMs would also prefer those guys over Poni as well.

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:09 PM
Waiving Finger might actually do more harm than good if someone actually took at shot at him on recall waivers.

That's $1.75M of dead money for two years.

I'd rather try to find a way to get rid of him outright in a Blake-Giggy type deal than to have $2M of used space for the next couple of years.

there's nothing that says we have to recall him. ever.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 05:10 PM
not a chance. Whitney is a proven commodity and I think that Ponikarovsky is seen as less talented than Frolov and just as enigmatic.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 05:10 PM
why would that do more harm than good?

then he's counting $1.75mn of dead weight against the cap instead of $3.5mn of dead weight. and that's if they even treid to recall him (why they would is beyond me).

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 05:11 PM
Where's the enigma with Poni?

The guy is a consistent producer and a good defensive player every year.

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:12 PM
DarrenDreger: The Minnesota Wild have traded D Kim Johnsson and 2009 first round pick Nick Leddy to Chicago for D Cam Barker.

jesus murphy that is a great move by Chicago.

they get the better dman, on an expiring deal, get rid of the contract they most wanted to get rid of, and they get a decent prospect as well.

Minnesota is just killing themselves, bit by bit by bit.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 05:12 PM
why would that do more harm than good?

then he's counting $1.75mn of dead weight against the cap instead of $3.5mn of dead weight. and that's if they even treid to recall him (why they would is beyond me).

Yes, $3.5M is worse than $1.75M, but if there's a trade out there that can be made where we get rid of him altogether and maybe take some team's bad contract that expires at the end of next season, that's much better.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Where's the enigma with Poni?

The guy is a consistent producer and a good defensive player every year.

by and large he is considered a streaky scorer who doesn't use his size as effectively as he should.

which i don't think is necessarily a fair criticism of him (the latter, at least), but that's the way he seems to be perceived throughout the league.

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:14 PM
not a chance. Whitney is a proven commodity and I think that Ponikarovsky is seen as less talented than Frolov and just as enigmatic.

Whitney is 37 years old, and looking his age this year, and brings nothing to the table other than pure offense - and his offense has not been up to par recently.

Valuing Whitney more than Poni at this deadline might be similar to valuing Jokinen more than Antropov last deadline.

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:15 PM
Stralman >>> Barker

Montana
02-12-2010, 05:19 PM
Signing Carlo as a UFA + Leddy >>> Barker @ 3 mill per - Leddy

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Barker had one good year as a PP specialist last year (and the weakest member of that PP), and had some gaudy point totals as a result - but this year, they haven't needed him on the PP, and he's become absolutely useless. He was a guy and salary that they just wanted to dump, period. To get a decent asset back was very nice.

He's comparable to Marc-Andre Bergeron, IF even that.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-12-2010, 05:29 PM
Barker's still living off his draft position. He's as one dimensional as they get -- and he's getting paid a lot for what he provides.

This is a great trade for Chicago short term and long term.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 05:39 PM
Yikes, lotsa love for a move that could end up giving Chicago a 1st round bust and 20 games of Johnssson in return for Barker.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 05:42 PM
Valuing Whitney more than Poni at this deadline might be similar to valuing Jokinen more than Antropov last deadline.

Yeah. And it happens every year.

I mean, Mark Recchi got more than Antropov.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 05:43 PM
Yeah. Barker is useless on a team that has Campbell and Keith.

Most teams don't though. Chicago had to move him, but he's a good addition for Minnesota.

zeke
02-12-2010, 05:50 PM
Hugely overpaid PP specialist ($3.1m - no bonuses) that they desperately were trying to get rid of.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 05:53 PM
They were only desperately trying to get rid of him because their team is so damn good and they can't afford everyone.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 05:54 PM
This trade isn't so different from the Ryan Whitney one.

Only Ryan Whitney got more in return.

LeafOfFaith
02-12-2010, 06:00 PM
Is the idea that Chicago is soooooo good that the rest of the team's play covers up for how terribly bad Barker is and that's the reason he's a plus 7?

Is there any other player in the league that is supposedly that bad defensively and yet is a plus player?

I'm not asking rhetorically, I'm really just curious if anyone has an example.

bayrider
02-12-2010, 06:00 PM
And Whitney is better than Barker

Wasn't Barker scratched/sent to AHL last season or the one before?

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:02 PM
Whitney isn't better than Barker.

Same shit. Big, offensive D's, who are lost in their own end.

Montana
02-12-2010, 06:04 PM
And Whitney is better than Barker

Wasn't Barker scratched/sent to AHL last season or the one before?

He didn't make the team out of camp last year, but was called up a couple weeks into the season.

zeke
02-12-2010, 06:04 PM
Except that Whitney is actually a very good defenseman, who was playing near 25 minutes per game for a contender when traded, and who has played over 23 minutes per game every season of his career, even as a rookie, averaging just under 24 minutes per game for his career.

While Barker has never been more than a bottom pair defenseman in this league, with occasional success offensively on the PP. The most minutes he ever played were the 19:19 he had as a rookie in only 35 games as they were giving him a legit look but left him in the AHL most of the year.

and it's not as if Barker played for a team that was shy about playing young guys - he was the highest draft pick of all of them, but Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson had no problem flying past him on the depth charts.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:06 PM
Whitney is so good defensively, Pitt moved him to forward.

zeke
02-12-2010, 06:07 PM
It's crazy to me how underrated Whitney gets, really. Young huge guy who's AVERAGED pretty much a 10gl/50pt pace and near 24mpg for his entire career so far.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 06:08 PM
Is the idea that Chicago is soooooo good that the rest of the team's play covers up for how terribly bad Barker is and that's the reason he's a plus 7?

Is there any other player in the league that is supposedly that bad defensively and yet is a plus player?

I'm not asking rhetorically, I'm really just curious if anyone has an example.

coaches typically play their bottom unit with their top line, and when they can put them out against the oppositions 3rd or 4th line.

not saying that barker doesn't have potential, but his +7 means **** all. he has the benefit of playing for one of the league's deepest and most talented offensive teams, and doesn't usually play against the other team's best players.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-12-2010, 06:08 PM
The Leafs moved White to forward for a pretty good stretch last season.

Sometimes organization don't know how to use what they have.

bayrider
02-12-2010, 06:08 PM
Whitney is so good defensively, Pitt moved him to forward.

He did regress in his last season as a Penguin, but prior to that he was pretty good defensively. Not sure what happened, but right now in Anaheim his defensive play isn't that bad, and it's surely a lot better than Barker's.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:09 PM
GA/60

Whitney: 2.85
Barker: 1.95

Montana
02-12-2010, 06:09 PM
Whitney is clearly better than Barker.....it's not even close.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:10 PM
Whitney stinks defensively.

Montana
02-12-2010, 06:11 PM
GA/60

Whitney: 2.85
Barker: 1.95

20+ mins against top opposition vs 10 mins against 3rd/4th liners.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 06:12 PM
Yeah, Whitney is shitty in his own end.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:13 PM
20+ mins against top opposition vs 10 mins against 3rd/4th liners.

Tell that to Finger/Exelby, who are well into the 3's.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 06:14 PM
does that stat isolate es/pk?

or is it just total goals against?

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:15 PM
I think total. Which is probably why Barker's is so low.

mbow30
02-12-2010, 06:17 PM
and would also bump exelby and finger up a bit...

zeke
02-12-2010, 06:29 PM
I think it's pretty insane to compare a guy who's played 24 minutes per game as a top-pair defenseman his entire career, to a guy averaging 13 minutes per game, and who has never been more than a bottom-pair defender at any point in his career.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:31 PM
Whitney wouldn't have played 24 minutes a game on Chicago either. That comparison is pretty meaningless.

We'll see how much Barker plays now.

Montana
02-12-2010, 06:35 PM
Barker wouldn't play 24 minutes on any team.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:38 PM
Whitney is playing for a team that despite having .920 goaltending, is a bottom 10 team in GA.

Their D sucks. James Wisnewski is also playing 24 minutes a game.

Montana
02-12-2010, 06:40 PM
Again.



Barker wouldn't play 24 minutes on any team.

zeke
02-12-2010, 06:42 PM
Whitney wouldn't have played 24 minutes a game on Chicago either. That comparison is pretty meaningless.

We'll see how much Barker plays now.

Whitney would sure as hell be playing more minutes than the mighty Hjalmarsson, just like he's playing more minutes than Wizniewski this year in Anaheim - with Wizniewski playing more minutes than Barker in Chicago last year.

And arguing that it's so hard to get minutes on the Hawks when they have 22 year old rookie Hjalmarsson in their top-4 doesn't make much sense - for comparison, Matt Walker played bottom pair 16+ minutes in chicago last year....then moved to Tampa Bay, where he's now playing only 15+ minutes.

leafman101
02-12-2010, 06:42 PM
Even if thats true, which I highly doubt, Whitney shouldn't, so whats the difference?

I don't like that argument. "Whitney plays a lot on one of the worst D's in the league." Great. Lets get him a medal.

He still sucks defensively. Ruining that .920 goaltending and all.

MyNameIsJonas
02-12-2010, 09:30 PM
On the Chicago/Minny deal.

Decent deal for the Wild who need help offensively on the back end and where Cam Barker wont be blocked on the PP and will also be given a legit chance to grow.

Excellent deal for my boys. Unloaded a contract that needed to be unloaded. ( In fact i was informed by many of you that the hawks would get nothing more than a pick for him in the offyear). Aquired a solid veteran D in Kim Jonsson who is quite underrated both in his own end and in his pick moving ability. Key here being he is a UFA. TO get Nick Leddy though is the real steal here. Certainly a project but now in a place where he will have plenty of time to develop.

MyNameIsJonas
02-12-2010, 09:31 PM
On the Canes/Sens deal.

Considering a plug like Moore went for a 2nd and that all Murray had to do was add a guy like Picard along with a 2nd to get a really nice player in Matt Cullen...i think Ottawa did awesome

rated
02-13-2010, 12:20 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/02/12/busy-sens-0/


He also placed right-winger Jonathan Cheechoo on waivers, clearing the way for more potential moves ahead of the March 3 trade deadline.

lol@senators

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 12:22 AM
Nah, waiving Cheechoo was a good move, it clears up a decent chunk of capspace for them to spend in trade (a goalie?). It was accepting him as part of the Heatley deal without demanding a top prospect to compensate for his horrific negative value that was the mistake.

rated
02-13-2010, 12:24 AM
Nah, waiving Cheechoo was a good move, it clears up a decent chunk of capspace for them to spend in trade (a goalie?). It was accepting him as part of the Heatley deal without demanding a top prospect to compensate for his horrific negative value that was the mistake.

Agree'd and I state my previous point once again.

lol@senators

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 12:29 AM
You don't understand that to make room for Heatley that the Sharks had to dump salary?

I think it's a sad day really. Cheechoo's game basically fell off of a cliff.

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 12:29 AM
For instance...Waive Cheechoo (done), waive Leclaire (if someone wants to pay him 3.8 million next year, I would gladly oblige if I was Ottawa out of 4 seasons with a sub .900sv% now)

Then trade the bucket of pucks for the mercurial Marty Turco and hope that he gets hot. He's one of those weird goalies who can do a Bill Ranford for 20+ games and steal a few series on his own....but manages to never become anything more than an over rated below average starter.

zeke
02-13-2010, 12:36 AM
Cheechoo always made that deal a bad one for the Sens.

without Cheechoo in there, at least it becomes a move where they save caphit even though they get the lesser talent in Michalek....but with Cheechoo in there, they get worse and they don't save any money either.

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 12:40 AM
I understand the necessity of having to take on salary to make it work....but you absolutely have to make SJ put more talent in to take that negative value as part of the trade, regardless if it's a necessary component.

corksens
02-13-2010, 09:34 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/02/12/busy-sens-0/



lol@senatorsLOL?

If you are referring to the Heatley trade, then sure. But this was the absolute right move. And it's nice to know we still have an owner who is willing to put money into the team and bury contracts.

corksens
02-13-2010, 09:36 AM
I understand the necessity of having to take on salary to make it work....but you absolutely have to make SJ put more talent in to take that negative value as part of the trade, regardless if it's a necessary component.Heatley screwed us.

Remember, he veto'd a trade to Edmonton. He told Ottawa that he knew SJ was interested and that he'd only waive his NTC to go there. SJ knew this and the Sens were screwed. It was pretty much the worst case scenario.

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 10:42 AM
Yeah, I never liked the trade.

I do like Michalek, but I think Murray would have been better off telling Heatley to eat shit and keep him in Ottawa, at least until he could get more for him.

I guess Murray thought that having a guy here that didn't want to be here would do more damage than good.

There is no use crying about it now.

LeafOfFaith
02-13-2010, 01:24 PM
The hard line approach would've definitely been better.

Let him play and take it up the ass from fans every game and then see how quick he'll waive to go to another team.

And if he refuses to play for you, even better. Suspend his ass and save his salary.

Win-win...

Win.

zeke
02-13-2010, 02:09 PM
the thing is, I really think Murray thought of Cheechoo as an asset, and not the negative value that he actually was.

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 02:15 PM
I do like Michalek, but I think Murray would have been better off telling Heatley to eat shit and keep him in Ottawa, at least until he could get more for him.

That is always the answer.

If he refuses to report, you suspend him.

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 02:15 PM
the thing is, I really think Murray thought of Cheechoo as an asset, and not the negative value that he actually was.

He couldn't have really expected any sort of bounce back from Cheech?

zeke
02-13-2010, 02:27 PM
I think he did, honestly. at least 2nd line type production playing with Spezz.

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 02:45 PM
That is not how it went according to the newspapers and bloggers last summer.

Murray wanted no part of Cheechoo, and Wilson wouldn't stop including him in the package.

Apparently Murray agreed to take Cheechoo when Wilson agreed to give up Michalek, which he really didn't want to do.

Michalek is a good, young player that is signed to a pretty reasonable contract. He's not going to score 50, but he can actually do other things, like skate, check, play in traffic. More than cruise the slot waiting to unload a blast.

Getting out of that $7.5 Million cap hit for the next 4 years may have been a blessing in disguise as well.

zeke
02-13-2010, 03:04 PM
Mich/Cheech: $7.33 / $7.33 / $4.33 / $4.33 / $4.33

CyclopsKiller: $7.50 / $7.50 / $7.50 / $7.50 / $7.50

just not enough cap savings to make up the difference in talent, IMO.

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 03:16 PM
Huh?

9.5 million less in the last 3 years looks like a significant saving to me.

Plus, if someone claims him on re-entry they get him for 1/2 price.

That would save the Senators over $11 Million.

leafman101
02-13-2010, 03:18 PM
But what does $3 million buy you these days? Just overpaid 2nd liners.

worm
02-13-2010, 03:43 PM
3rd liners

axlsalinger
02-13-2010, 03:53 PM
super-elite third liners.

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 04:02 PM
Better than a 4th liner.

Plus, as guys get more expensive (RFA's, UFA's) every dollar counts.

Montana
02-13-2010, 04:05 PM
Apparently Murray agreed to take Cheechoo when Wilson agreed to give up Michalek, which he really didn't want to do.


If this is actually true, what kind of steaming piece of sh*t offer were the Sharks making that didn't even involve Michalek?

It must have been quite a beauty.....

leafman101
02-13-2010, 04:07 PM
Sens should have made the deal a little earlier and got Erhoff included. They dumped him for nothing.

MyNameIsJonas
02-13-2010, 08:43 PM
I can see Cheechoo being picked up on re-entry by Toronto. He aledgedly had a good relationship with Wilson.

Basically you can use the rest of this season as a tryout for him with Kessel. If it works out you have a revived top line guy for 3M. If it doesnt you bury him in the minors next year or buy out the last year of the contract. Not a bad gamble though

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 09:13 PM
You get him for $1.5 M, not 3. Ottawa is on the hook for 1/2 of his salary.

Cheechoo @ 1.5 > Cheechoo @ 3.0

MyNameIsJonas
02-13-2010, 09:23 PM
You get him for $1.5 M, not 3. Ottawa is on the hook for 1/2 of his salary.

Cheechoo @ 1.5 > Cheechoo @ 3.0

all the more reason to gamble

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 09:24 PM
**** that....

He should be calling reservation bingo, not playing for my hockey team.

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 09:35 PM
Why would you want him anyway. Not like he is going to move you out of 29th place or anything.

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 10:15 PM
Because he's a useless plug who we would be on the hook for next year, and if we sent him to the AHL, we wouldn't be able to send Finger down.

We would be stuck with him...and **** that.

JohnnyHolmes
02-13-2010, 10:24 PM
A useless plug that would be one of your top 6.

Habsy
02-13-2010, 10:35 PM
He would be in Toronto's top 6 if Wilson is still the coach. That in itself is pretty sad.

zeke
02-13-2010, 11:11 PM
in our top-6?

heh.

Cheechoo is worse than O'Neill was for us.

MindzEye
02-13-2010, 11:51 PM
A useless plug that would be one of your top 6.

Nonsense, even after two of our top 6 were traded (and Blake who would also be better than Cheechoo)

Kessel, Bozak, Poni, Stemp, Grabo, Kule

and of course, even if we could use him this year, he would be worthless to us next season after our forward corps are rounded out.

Habsy
02-14-2010, 12:24 AM
Wilson would put him top 6, bet on it.

MyNameIsJonas
02-14-2010, 12:26 AM
Wilson would put him top 6, bet on it.

i really see no reason why they shouldnt gamble on the fact that he can find some chemestry under the old coach.

if he does you have a bargain, and your chief rival paying his salary

MyNameIsJonas
02-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Wilson would put him top 6, bet on it.

and yes he would

MindzEye
02-14-2010, 12:52 AM
maybe this year, after we trade Poni & Stemp...next year, not a chance.

and if Finger is already in the AHL, we wouldn't be able to park Cheechoo there if he's as useless as he was this year and undeserving of an NHL roster spot.

Funny that it's Sens, Habs, & Hawks fans that like this idea and Leaf fans who are opposed to it.

Habsy
02-14-2010, 12:57 AM
Like what idea? I never said it was a good idea. Stay away from the sieve.

JohnnyHolmes
02-14-2010, 02:04 AM
Cheechoo at $1.5 is a gamble worth taking.

The only complaint you'll hear about the guy is his salary. If you are paying half of it...what's the big deal?

Cheechoo still has a good head for the game. His effort and heart were never questioned. With a little better luck and some bounces he could have easily doubled his production.

Don't forget he was buried on the 4th line most of his time in Ottawa.

He isn't worth a $3 Million cap hit, but at $1.5...you can't go wrong.

I still think he is capable of 20+ goals.

Look at Gary Roberts. He was "finished" at 31 because of injuries. After retiring, and getting healthy, he came back and played 10+ more effective seasons.

I wish Cheechoo nothing but the best. I think a team should take a chance on him.

He is only 29.

MindzEye
02-14-2010, 02:14 AM
Are you claiming that Cheechoo has some sort of injury that he needs time off from to regain his effectiveness?

And while we're looking at Gary Roberts, let's also remember that he was only able to come back because he became a fitness lunatic. Truly a fitness lunatic, and made sure he was conditioned as well as anyone in the league.

Cheechoo is no Gary Roberts

He's a flash in the pan who has progressively degraded since his big year. Let someone else take the chance on him.

LeafGm
02-14-2010, 02:15 AM
Some team will probably take a chance on him. It had better not be the Leafs though. I have no interest in us taking a problem/negative asset off Ottawa's hands for them. It'd only be worth it if they were willing to toss us a decent draft pick for the trouble of taking on Cheechoo's salary,

JohnnyHolmes
02-14-2010, 02:27 AM
The guy had double hernia surgery. He was never the best skater, but if/when he gets completely healthy, he may have something left to contribute.

29 is not too old.

Anyway it's not like I care if the Leafs pick him up. I just hope he can catch on somewhere else, and I hope he can make a comeback.

Was Gary Roberts a fitness lunatic before his neck problems?

I already know the answer.

mbow30
02-14-2010, 02:29 AM
Hernia surgery ruined Wellwood. Except unlike Cheechoo Wellwood (once he lost a step and maneuverability) worked on the rougher edges of his game to keep a spot in this league.

Never clicked for Cheechoo and at his age (30) probably never will.

zeke
02-14-2010, 02:30 AM
Breakdown since DD-Day:

C M.Stajan: 7gms, 2gls, 4pts, +2, 18:42 (82gms, 23gls, 47pts, +23)
W N.Hagman: 7gms, 1gls, 3pts, +1, 17:22 (82gms, 12gls, 35pts, +12)
W J.Blake: 6gms, 1gls, 2pts, -3, 14:58 (82gms, 14gls, 27pts, -41)
D I.White: 7gms, 0gls, 2pts, +3, 20:03 (82gms, 0gls, 23pts, +35)
W J.Mayers: 7gms, 0gls, 1pts, +0, 9:34 (82gms, 0gls, 12pts, +0)
G V.Toskala: 0gms, 0-0-0, 0.00gaa, .000sv%


F F.Sjostrom: 4gms, 0gls, 2pts, +0, 16:01 (82gms, 0gls, 41pts, +0)
D D.Phaneuf: 5gms, 0gls, 2pts, -1, 25:54 (82gms, 0gls, 33pts, -16)
G J.Giguere: 4gms, 2-2-0, 1.76gaa, .941sv%

zeke
02-14-2010, 02:31 AM
Cheechoo is the next O'Neill, the next Leeman, the next whoever.

he's done like dinner.

Habsy
02-14-2010, 02:32 AM
Agreed. He may find a taker as a 3rd liner next season if let go.

LeafGm
02-14-2010, 03:22 AM
The guy had double hernia surgery. He was never the best skater, but if/when he gets completely healthy, he may have something left to contribute.

29 is not too old.

Anyway it's not like I care if the Leafs pick him up. I just hope he can catch on somewhere else, and I hope he can make a comeback.

Was Gary Roberts a fitness lunatic before his neck problems?

I already know the answer.
So, basically, you think a team should take a chance on Cheechoo because maybe he might become more fanatically dedicated to physical fitness than any other player in the league?

On another note, do you buy lotto 649 tickets every week?

LeafOfFaith
02-14-2010, 04:10 AM
Breakdown since DD-Day:

C M.Stajan: 7gms, 2gls, 4pts, +2, 18:42 (82gms, 23gls, 47pts, +23)
W N.Hagman: 7gms, 1gls, 3pts, +1, 17:22 (82gms, 12gls, 35pts, +12)
W J.Blake: 6gms, 1gls, 2pts, -3, 14:58 (82gms, 14gls, 27pts, -41)
D I.White: 7gms, 0gls, 2pts, +3, 20:03 (82gms, 0gls, 23pts, +35)
W J.Mayers: 7gms, 0gls, 1pts, +0, 9:34 (82gms, 0gls, 12pts, +0)
G V.Toskala: 0gms, 0-0-0, 0.00gaa, .000sv%


F F.Sjostrom: 4gms, 0gls, 2pts, +0, 16:01 (82gms, 0gls, 41pts, +0)
D D.Phaneuf: 5gms, 0gls, 2pts, -1, 25:54 (82gms, 0gls, 33pts, -16)
G J.Giguere: 4gms, 2-2-0, 1.76gaa, .941sv%

That Blake guy is looking good.

On pace for 27 points since he left (even worse than he was with us) and was a -3 in a 3-1 loss to Stajan and pals tonight.

Sucks. Shit.

I almost feel bad for Anaheim.

Almost.

mbow30
02-14-2010, 10:36 AM
you realize that if jason blake gets an assist today then he has produced identically to hagman, right?

why aren't you shitting on hagman?

LeafOfFaith
02-14-2010, 12:25 PM
Because Hagman has over 20 goals and is producing at a pace where he'll end up giving his team pretty much exactly as expected from him and in line with previous years.

Volcanologist
02-14-2010, 12:51 PM
:beatdeadhorse5:

(replace horse's face with Blake's)

Bleedsblue&white
02-14-2010, 12:58 PM
you realize that if jason blake gets an assist today then he has produced identically to hagman, right?

why aren't you shitting on hagman?

You just had to ask didn't you?:beatdeadhorse5::incazzato::banghead:

Oh vey.

LeafOfFaith
02-14-2010, 01:14 PM
C'mon guys! Blake bashing is kinda fun now, with him gone.

Just look at the -41 paced!

That's the best.

leafman101
02-14-2010, 05:46 PM
Cam Barker: TOI - 20:46, 1 gl, +3.

He's no bottom pair defenseman.

Montana
02-14-2010, 05:55 PM
How much PP time did he log, over the course of Minny's 7 powerplays?.....anyone know?

MindzEye
02-14-2010, 05:56 PM
Heh..

14:00 would be my guess

leafman101
02-14-2010, 05:58 PM
3:54

Nothing unusual.

Montana
02-14-2010, 06:22 PM
NHL.com has him with...

TOI - 19:39, 1 gl, +2.......PPTOI - 3:12


Solid debut for Barker though, tied for 2nd in PP icetime with Burns, and beat out Knidy and Shultz to finish 4th in icetime behind Zidlicky, Burns and Zanon.

zeke
02-14-2010, 09:50 PM
2gls 4pts for Getzlaf tonight.

guess he's ok for the olympics.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-14-2010, 09:54 PM
Good.

The Getzlaf line has the chance to be the best line, especially if they put Bergeron on the top line and Thornton/Heately/Marleau disappear in big games.

number17
02-14-2010, 10:13 PM
C M.Stajan: 7gms, 2gls, 4pts, +2, 18:42 (82gms, 23gls, 47pts, +23)
W N.Hagman: 7gms, 1gls, 3pts, +1, 17:22 (82gms, 12gls, 35pts, +12)
D I.White: 7gms, 0gls, 2pts, +3, 20:03 (82gms, 0gls, 23pts, +35)

Boy, Sutter sure doesn't look good with this trade eh? Supposedly a trade to give the Flames some offensive help and offensive depth, none of the forwards has played like a top 6 forward since leaving Toronto, and White hasn't looked good (at least, his number hasn't) neither.

BeLeafer
02-14-2010, 10:20 PM
Stuff like this never shows up in my dreams but, for whatever reason, I had a dream last night where the Flames were in a game 7 situation with seconds left on the clock and White launched a canon to score the game winner.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-14-2010, 10:23 PM
I hope Stajan, White and White's stache all do well.

They're good guys who play hard.

Habsy
02-14-2010, 10:37 PM
Sergei Berezin is wondering why you dissed him?

mbow30
02-15-2010, 02:28 AM
so guess who had an assist tonight?

MindzEye
02-15-2010, 02:35 AM
uhhh....Berezin in a men's league game?

mbow30
02-15-2010, 02:37 AM
nope. j-blake.

tying him in points/pace with hagman since the deal was made.

blake = hagman

JohnnyHolmes
02-15-2010, 03:07 AM
who both = white dog turd.

MindzEye
02-15-2010, 03:12 AM
I'm glad neither are on my hockey team.

But they're both better than Kelly.

LeafOfFaith
02-15-2010, 03:37 AM
nope. j-blake.

tying him in points/pace with hagman since the deal was made.

blake = hagman

First of all, no one was comparing how they were doing since each of them left.

Second, if you were, Hagman is 6 points away from tying his career high in points in a season while Blake is still 3 points away from producing HALF of what he did last season. And while "lazy" Hagman is a +1 in his 7 games since leaving, somehow "super effort guy" Blake is a -4.

One is producing as good as and likely better than he ever has, while the other is going to struggle to put up even 50% of what he put up last year.

No comparison.

JaysCyYoung
02-15-2010, 12:46 PM
First of all, no one was comparing how they were doing since each of them left.

Huh? And it should be noted that the only reason Hagman is close to matching his career high in points is because his career high in points is substantially less than Blake's career high.

leafman101
02-16-2010, 11:11 AM
Just realized how impressive a season Washington is having offensively.

They are the only team with 200 goals to this point, and they have 243. 45 more goals than 2nd place, and 102 more goals than last place Boston.

Crazy.

leafman101
02-16-2010, 11:14 AM
The last team to score 3.92 goals/game was before 1997-98 which is the furthest back NHL.com's stat tracking goes.

mbow30
02-16-2010, 11:21 AM
95-96 pens scored like 370 goals.

the avs and wings were next in the 320s.

so the caps are scoring comparably to the top scoring teams in the pre-trap era. that's really friggin outstanding.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-17-2010, 05:27 PM
too much vodka


EDMONTON -- Injured Edmonton Oilers goalie Nikolai Khabibulin has been arrested in Arizona and charged with drunk driving.

Police in Scottsdale say they stopped a black Ferrari for speeding Feb. 8. The officer who made the stop noticed a smell of alcohol on the driver's breath and made the arrest after a sobriety test.

Police say Khabibulin, who led the Tampa Bay Lightning to the 2004 Stanley Cup title, was booked on charges of driving under the influence and excessive speed and then released.

Khabibulin joined the Oilers in the off-season after stints with Tampa Bay, the Chicago Blackhawks, Phoenix Coyotes and Winnipeg Jets.

But he has out of the lineup for most of the year with back problems.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-24-2010, 04:37 PM
The Nashville Predators have seemingly picked their goaltender going forward. TSN has confirmed that the club has signed Pekka Rinne to a two-year, $6.8 million contract. The deal will reportedly pay Rinne $2.8 million in 2010-11, and $4 million in 2011-12.




Looks like Ellis may be on his way out.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
02-24-2010, 04:58 PM
Last 2 Years:
Rinne (27): 92 gms, 911 SV%
Ellis (29): 62 gms, 906 SV%


I think they signed the right guy, depsite Ellis posting better numbers this year.

leafman101
02-25-2010, 01:52 PM
The Flames resigned Bourque. 6 years @ $3.3 per.

MindzEye
02-25-2010, 03:42 PM
Dang....he was my sleeper forward hope this summer.

Beauty ****ing contract too...Bourque can pretty easily turn into a 60-70 point winger for them...it pays him until he's 34, but there's no reason to expect this contract to turn out bad for them.

Good signing, and about 1 million less a year than I was expecting him to get on the open market.

LeafOfFaith
02-25-2010, 06:39 PM
I wouldn't have given that guy a 6 year deal for that amount.

Habspatrol
02-27-2010, 02:02 AM
Pretty douchey move by Ovechkin after the loss.

YouTube- Alexander Ovechkin Furious After Russia Loss Attacks Camera Man

Combine this with all his diving the past season or so and it seems to me he's starting to get the "whiner" and "diver" reputation that Sid had as an 18 year old.

Metalleaf
02-27-2010, 02:06 AM
Dang....he was my sleeper forward hope this summer.

Beauty ****ing contract too...Bourque can pretty easily turn into a 60-70 point winger for them...it pays him until he's 34, but there's no reason to expect this contract to turn out bad for them.

Good signing, and about 1 million less a year than I was expecting him to get on the open market.

Except he can never seem to stay healthy...makes me wonder how much Matt Stajan is worth now, who is pretty comparable points wise and has a healthier track record.