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leafman101
07-14-2014, 05:07 PM
Defensive forwards are like defensive dman... overrated.



If you mean guys like McClement who only play defense, then sure. If you mean a top offensive player that is also a top defensive player than no ****ing way is that overrated. That is the ideal player. For a forward, or a dman like Weber or Doughty etc.

A top offensive player that is more committed to playing good defense than scoring are the type of players that win cups. Just look at the Wings, Hawks, Bruins and Kings.

Malkin is an insane talent though. But if he consistently played his ass off at both ends he'd be a better player. When he plays like that he is probably the most dominant player in the league.

Montana
07-14-2014, 05:12 PM
101, you're on the clock in our Dynasty draft.

hockeylover
07-14-2014, 05:14 PM
The only thing is when there's a crazy point difference, there aren't enough intangibles that could possibly make up that big of a gap IMO. If the points are close, then sure.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 05:24 PM
If you mean guys like McClement who only play defense, then sure. If you mean a top offensive player that is also a top defensive player than no ****ing way is that overrated. That is the ideal player. For a forward, or a dman like Weber or Doughty etc.

A top offensive player that is more committed to playing good defense than scoring are the type of players that win cups. Just look at the Wings, Hawks, Bruins and Kings.

Malkin is an insane talent though. But if he consistently played his ass off at both ends he'd be a better player. When he plays like that he is probably the most dominant player in the league.

Well yeah, like I said in the rest of my post I do give a fair bit of credit to the defensive part of Toews game... but I feel some/a lot overrate it. Just look at how many people argue that Toews is the best forward in the world... or how many at least think he's 2nd best. That's ridiculous overrating imo. Sure if you're comparing him to someone that brings absolutely zero defense then yeah... but Malkin is actually somewhat good defensively. If I'm not mistaken there was a year or two that he led the league in takeaways.

IMO the best forwards in the world are in tiers that look something like this.

Crosby
Malkin/Stamkos
Getzlaf/Datsyuk/Ovechkin/Kopitar/Giroux/Toews/Kane/Perry/Kessel
Duchene/Seguin/Hall/Backstrom/Pavalski/Thornton/Benn/Sharp/Neal

And I'm probably missing a few from the last group and I could probably add a few to the next group. Also there's a few younger guys who could be ready to move up a group and older guys ready to move down a group.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 05:26 PM
The only thing is when there's a crazy point difference, there aren't enough intangibles that could possibly make up that big of a gap IMO. If the points are close, then sure.

Yeah I agree. And most star forwards are pretty decent defensively. You have Ovechkin and Hall that catch a lot of grief defensively, but for the most part star players are at least average.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 05:30 PM
Yeah, like I said Malkin is an insane talent. And with his size he's probably the most ideal player in the league. In a forward draft he's my 2nd pick.

But I wouldn't be very upset about having the 4th or 5th pick and ending with with Toews either. He's right there.

Montana
07-14-2014, 05:48 PM
Don't think anyone was claiming Toews isn't great......pretty sure we're all aware of that.

hockeylover
07-14-2014, 05:52 PM
The team with the longest Stanley Cup drought is looking to host every other major NHL event—the All-Star Game, the NHL Draft and the Winter Classic, not to mention the anticipated 2016 World Cup of Hockey—leading up to or during the club’s 100th anniversary, to be celebrated throughout 2017.

Tim Leiweke, CEO of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, recently told Sportsnet that the organization is in the process of bidding for all four events.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-centennial-100-anniversary-nhl-draft-all-star-game-winter-classic-world-cup-tim-leiweke/

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 07:12 PM
The team with the longest Stanley Cup drought is looking to host every other major NHL event—the All-Star Game, the NHL Draft and the Winter Classic, not to mention the anticipated 2016 World Cup of Hockey—leading up to or during the club’s 100th anniversary, to be celebrated throughout 2017.

Tim Leiweke, CEO of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, recently told Sportsnet that the organization is in the process of bidding for all four events.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-centennial-100-anniversary-nhl-draft-all-star-game-winter-classic-world-cup-tim-leiweke/

Haha is the "team with the longest Stanley Cup drought" necessary or relevant in any way at all?

trujaysfan
07-14-2014, 07:15 PM
Haha is the "team with the longest Stanley Cup drought" necessary or relevant in any way at all?

No it is not... but hey it's toronto

hockeylover
07-14-2014, 07:15 PM
Haha is the "team with the longest Stanley Cup drought" necessary or relevant in any way at all?

My guess is that all Toronto hockey networks got so sick of being accused of Toronto bias that they overcompensate with an obligatory 1967 reference in every article.

JackBurton
07-14-2014, 07:49 PM
My guess is that all Toronto hockey networks got so sick of being accused of Toronto bias that they overcompensate with an obligatory 1967 reference in every article.

I'll never forget the night Chicago ended it's drought, TSN's lead story was "Toronto Biggest Losers".

Toronto Sports Network indeed...

JackBurton
07-14-2014, 08:00 PM
BTW, defensive play has become ridiculously overrated. Toews has hit 70 points once. Sorry, not nearly good enough to be the best player in the world. Crosby is a pretty good defensive forward himself and his offensive skills are in another league from Toews.

Patrick Kane is more talented than Toews.

There's so little room to move in the NHL and it's so hard to score 5 on 5. Why defensive play is looked at so highly is beyond my comprehension.

My guess is it's people trying to look more smart and sophisticated by saying you have to look more than just on the score sheet. And talk about the "Little Things" player x does. ****ing bullshit.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:05 PM
Toews has won 2 WJC golds, a WC gold, NCAA championship, 2 Olympic golds and 2 cups and he has been one of, if not the, best players on all of those teams in his 9 year career. He has won everything at every level. Its pretty insane.

I think playing without the puck matters a little bit, and there is a pretty good argument for him among the elite players in the game. Who wins more? And this is a guy that plays big minutes, in every situation for every team he is on. Offesive situations. Defensive situations. Eveything.

JackBurton
07-14-2014, 08:08 PM
The issue isn't him being very good, it's that his offense just isn't good enough to be considered the best in the world.

We see this a lot, remember last year when some magazine listed Bergeron the 9th best player in the world?

Defensive play is now being looked upon as more important than offense. It's gone overboard.

I think a Guy Chabonneau mattered much more, when he was a brilliant defensive forward in an insane offensive era where there were few players so good and concentrated on defensive play.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:12 PM
Being a top defensive player when you are also a top offensive player is incredibly valueable. You may say that guys like Toews, Bergeron and Kopitar aren't as good as players that score more then them. But when they go head to head who wins those battles? Its guys like Toews, Bergeron and Kopitar. The results speak for themselves.

Its not like they a schlubs offensively. They are incredibly talented players. They sacrifice a bit offensively to play a complete game.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 08:12 PM
Toews has won 2 WJC golds, a WC gold, NCAA championship, 2 Olympic golds and 2 cups and he has been one of, if not the, best players on all of those teams in his 9 year career. He has won everything at every level.

I think playing without the puck matters a little bit, and there is a pretty good argument for him among the elite players in the game.

He's definitely been on some great teams... always been one of the better players on his team. I just don't know if he's ever been "the best" on any of those Team Canada teams. In Chicago he's been a 1a or 1b... with a really, really good supporting cast.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:14 PM
He's definitely been on some great teams... always been one of the better players on his team. I just don't know if he's ever been "the best" on any of those Team Canada teams. In Chicago he's been a 1a or 1b... with a really, really good supporting cast.

He is the best player on Chicago. He was the best player on the WJC teams. He was the best player on his NCAA team. And he was arguably the best player on the Olympic team too. He played more than Crosby. The team was built around Toews and Doughty.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:18 PM
In the last 4-5 years the game really has changed a bit. It has gone to star players grinding it out for every inch of ice. Its really Crosby that kind of led the charge in that regard. Those are the teams that win. Toews, Kopitar, Crosby, Datsyuk and Bergeron are literally all the top line centers that are cup winners in the last 7 years. Yes they are on good teams, but those teams forward groups are built around those guys.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 08:21 PM
He is the best player on Chicago. He was the best player on the WJC teams. He was the best player on his NCAA team. And he was arguably the best player on the Olympic team too. He played more than Crosby. The team was built around Toews and Doughty.

See this is where you and a lot of people rate him a lot higher than guys like me and Burton and Montana.

Toews is a hell of a player and his defensive game is really good, but I think people put too much stock in that. I'd say he's about the same level as Kane and Keith is right there too.

And he definitely wasn't the best player on the 2014 Olympic team.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:26 PM
I mean the results speak for themselves. You can say on paper that player A is a better player. But at the tournament he was unquestionably one of their top players. He played the most. They built the forward group around him and his style of game. Doughty and Weber probably were better, but you can't really make an argument that he wasn't one of their top players.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 08:35 PM
I mean the results speak for themselves. You can say on paper that player A is a better player. But at the tournament he was unquestionably one of their top players. He played the most. They built the forward group around him and his style of game. Doughty and Weber probably were better, but you can't really make an argument that he wasn't one of their top players.

He had 4 points.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:38 PM
Yeah, but the whole team didn't score. He still played the most important minutes and had the puck the whole time. And he assisted on the game winning goal in the quarters, and scored the game winning goal in the finals.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:39 PM
He played 19 minutes in the Gold medal game. Weber, Keith and Doughty are the only guys who played more.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 08:42 PM
Oh yeah, he was fine... but he wasn't anything special. The team was built around defense... and great goaltending.

leafman101
07-14-2014, 08:43 PM
And that is just one of the 8 championships he has won in the last 9 seasons anyway.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 08:46 PM
Yep... he's a really good player and been on some really good teams.

MindzEye
07-14-2014, 08:49 PM
Toews has hit 70 points once.

While technically true, it doesn't really tell the full story. The lowest 82 game pace Toews has had since he entered the league was 69 points in his rookie & Sophomore seasons . He's been a 73-84 point pace player the rest of his career. While not elite, that's pretty firmly in top 5 centreman territory almost every year.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 08:51 PM
While technically true, it doesn't really tell the full story. The lowest 82 game pace Toews has had since he entered the league was 69 points in his rookie & Sophomore seasons . He's been a 73-84 point pace player the rest of his career. While not elite, that's pretty firmly in top 5 centreman territory almost every year.

So he's injury prone?

hockeylover
07-14-2014, 08:52 PM
I feel like if you're a top 5 center almost every year, you ARE elite. But maybe that's just squabbling over labels.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 08:55 PM
I feel like if you're a top 5 center almost every year, you ARE elite. But maybe that's just squabbling over labels.

Yeah I'd say he's a top 5ish centre.

I take Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos over him. He's in the group with Kopitar, Giroux and Getzlaf.

zeke
07-14-2014, 08:56 PM
yep, Toews' offensive game is being underrated.

he's a top-10 offensive centre in hockey.

Last 2yrs PPG (min. 20gms):

1. Crosby 1.38
2. Malkin 1.15
3. Stamkos 1.14
4. Getzlaf 1.12
5. Tavares 1.06
6. Giroux 1.03
7. Backstrom 0.98
8. Duchene 0.96
9. Toews 0.94
10. Datsyuk 0.93

Last 3yrs PPG

1. Crosby 1.43
2. Malkin 1.29
3. Stamkos 1.16
4. Giroux 1.10
5. Tavares 1.03
6. Backstrom 0.99
7. Spezza 0.97
8. Toews 0.95
9. Getzlaf 0.95
10. Datsyuk 0.94

MindzEye
07-14-2014, 08:58 PM
So he's injury prone?

I would say "bumps and bruises prone". He tends to play ~75 games and score just under 70 points in most seasons.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 09:00 PM
I keep forgetting to add Tavares to that Toews group... and ready to pass him.

Montana
07-14-2014, 09:01 PM
yep, Toews' offensive game is being underrated.

he's a top-10 offensive centre in hockey.


Did someone imply he wasn't a top 10 offensive center?

zeke
07-14-2014, 09:06 PM
and remember that this contract expires when Toews is 34 - just when age becomes a big concern. Its not like Crosby's that takes him right to 37 or 38.

hockeylover
07-14-2014, 09:07 PM
yep, Toews' offensive game is being underrated.

he's a top-10 offensive centre in hockey.

Last 2yrs PPG (min. 20gms):

1. Crosby 1.38
2. Malkin 1.15
3. Stamkos 1.14
4. Getzlaf 1.12
5. Tavares 1.06
6. Giroux 1.03
7. Backstrom 0.98
8. Duchene 0.96
9. Toews 0.94
10. Datsyuk 0.93

Last 3yrs PPG

1. Crosby 1.43
2. Malkin 1.29
3. Stamkos 1.16
4. Giroux 1.10
5. Tavares 1.03
6. Backstrom 0.99
7. Spezza 0.97
8. Toews 0.95
9. Getzlaf 0.95
10. Datsyuk 0.94

I have no idea why but when I searched this in hockey-reference the other day, I got a result that had Toews higher. Maybe it had a min games set or people listed as W instead of C by accident. Odd.

zeke
07-14-2014, 09:09 PM
I never look at their listed position.

hockeylover
07-14-2014, 09:10 PM
I never look at their listed position.

Well, it wasn't a matter of me skipping over obvious centers listed as wingers, I just searched for C so I didn't notice those names were missing. Probably should've just searched for all forwards.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 09:11 PM
Looking at those numbers zeke posted I'm shocked anyone would take Toews over Malkin.

hockeylover
07-14-2014, 09:11 PM
Looking at those numbers zeke posted I'm shocked anyone would take Toews over Malkin.

... hasn't the only person who's said that been Jonas though?

MindzEye
07-14-2014, 09:14 PM
... hasn't the only person who's said that been Jonas though?

We all know that Jonas isn't "anyone".

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 09:21 PM
... hasn't the only person who's said that been Jonas though?

There was LoF... and TH said "You'd give Malkin a max deal but not Toews?"

Plus there were a few on the Habs board. Then there are a bunch of pundits who think that Toews is the best or second best player in the world.

zeke
07-14-2014, 09:28 PM
Looking at those numbers zeke posted I'm shocked anyone would take Toews over Malkin.

well, Malkin does get to play with one Sidney Crosby.....especially on the PP.

Last 2yrs:

Toews: 0.71esppg, 0.17ppppg, 0.07shppg
Malkin: 0.63esppg, 0.53ppppg, 0.00shppg

Last 3yrs:

Toews: 0.71esppg, 0.18ppppg, 0.06shppg
Malkin: 0.80esppg, 0.49ppppgm 0.00shppg


So you could argue that they're comparable at ES offensively but Toews is better defensively, giving him the edge at ES. Malkin is better on the PP, though with plenty of help from Sid. While Toews is also excellent on the PK, where Malkin doesn't play.

Malkin has also only played more than 60gms once in the last 4yrs, and 70gms once in the last 5yrs. Toews is also an elite faceoff guy, Malkin one of the worst.

And, of course, Malkin has never actually been a #1 centre in the NHL.

Leafin'
07-14-2014, 09:34 PM
I'd take either on my team.

Either one immediately be our best player.

Deckie007
07-14-2014, 09:34 PM
So....given all the factors, they're about even?

JackBurton
07-14-2014, 10:04 PM
and remember that this contract expires when Toews is 34 - just when age becomes a big concern. Its not like Crosby's that takes him right to 37 or 38.

Well Crosby's cap hit is far better.

LeafOfFaith
07-14-2014, 10:06 PM
I might prefer to have Kessel over Toews, to be quite honest. Malkin is better, but constantly hurt.

I just hate these injury prone players. I'd rather have the marginally worse player playing 80 games, that the superior player playing 60 games.

Habspatrol
07-14-2014, 10:07 PM
When Toews is a 34 year old UFA he'll get over $9m a year...hell by then that might be 2nd liner money. He may get $12-15m.

JackBurton
07-14-2014, 10:08 PM
Kessel is knocked so much for not being physical, but we'll easily get more prime years out of him. He's yet to miss a game since coming back from that injury suffered in Boston in 2009'. Dude is just so consistent. Yet oddly, he's apparently, "Streaky".

Leafyblue
07-14-2014, 10:59 PM
Dude is just so consistent. Yet oddly, he's apparently, "Streaky".

You mean he's consistently streaky? :couch

worm
07-15-2014, 11:16 AM
Don't think anyone was claiming Toews isn't great......pretty sure we're all aware of that.

I was.

Volcanologist
07-15-2014, 11:21 AM
You mean he's consistently streaky? :couch

He's as streaky as any other star offensive player, unless you ask the Toronto media.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 11:24 AM
Only Giroux has scored more than him over the last 3 years. He is less streaky than most star offensive players.

trujaysfan
07-15-2014, 11:39 AM
Ribero to preds 1 year 1.05mil

hockeylover
07-15-2014, 11:55 AM
Red Wings hire Tony Granato as assistant coach.

MyNameIsJonas
07-15-2014, 12:15 PM
Preds close to locking up Derek Roy as well.

hockeylover
07-15-2014, 12:17 PM
One year one million.

Riberio, Jokinen, Roy?

leafman101
07-15-2014, 12:18 PM
Great value for Nashville.

MyNameIsJonas
07-15-2014, 12:19 PM
Great value for Nashville.

that's also probably 2 draft picks at the deadline, maybe 3

hairnova
07-15-2014, 12:21 PM
Mike Ribeiro, Olli Jokinen and Derek Roy for $4.55 million.

zeke
07-15-2014, 12:27 PM
David Clarkson >>>

JaysCyYoung
07-15-2014, 12:32 PM
INTANGIBLES. LEADERSHIP. ETOBICOKE.

Preston_Mizzi
07-15-2014, 12:43 PM
HAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Artnes
07-15-2014, 12:43 PM
Clarkson really has no where to go but up this year.

MyNameIsJonas
07-15-2014, 12:44 PM
Clarkson really has no where to go but up this year.

the 2nd rung of a 20 rung ladder is still pretty bad though.

Preston_Mizzi
07-15-2014, 12:50 PM
Clarkson really has no where to go but up this year.
ECHLer to AHLer? Hopefully. **** it, I'll get selfish. I want him to become a 4th liner this year. Realistic? Probably not, but a man can dream.

zeke
07-15-2014, 12:51 PM
I don't know if he even deserves a spot on the team.

Not even talking a starting spot....i'm talking about ANY spot.

Vanryk - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Santorelli
Komarov - Kontiola - Nylander
Ashton - Holland - Frattin
(Leivo - Bodie)

Does clarkson beat out any of those guys for a spot?

leafman101
07-15-2014, 12:54 PM
He better, otherwise its a long 6 years.

Its a really unfortunate situation, but they have left themselves no other choice than force feed him minutes and put him situations to succeed so that there is some hope of dumping half his contract on someone else in a couple of years.

Can't send him to the minors. Can't buy him out. Can't trade him. Can't do anything really.

MyNameIsJonas
07-15-2014, 12:57 PM
He's an expensive expensive upgrade on Ashton when he's motivated.

Volcanologist
07-15-2014, 12:58 PM
Not the first time we've spent big dough on a guy who can't crack our lineup.

Or the second or third, for that matter.

And yet, not one of our scouts has been fired.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 01:02 PM
Not the first time we've spent big dough on a guy who can't crack our lineup.

Or the second or third, for that matter.

And yet, not one of our scouts has been fired.

It is the first time they have given them a NMC and a buyout proof 7 year contract though.

LeafGm
07-15-2014, 01:11 PM
He better, otherwise its a long 6 years.

Its a really unfortunate situation, but they have left themselves no other choice than force feed him minutes and put him situations to succeed so that there is some hope of dumping half his contract on someone else in a couple of years.

Can't send him to the minors. Can't buy him out. Can't trade him. Can't do anything really.
I think that'd be a terrible mistake. They force-fed him minutes on our second line last year, and all that did was drag the line down like we'd tied an anchor to their necks and tossed it overboard. This year, they just need to completely forget the contract and just pretend he's an AHLer fighting for ice-time, and give him what he earns. If that ends up being fourth-line minutes for him, or a spot in the press box, then so be it.

If there is a potential trade partner out there for him, we're not going to entice them by having Clarkson sabotage our second or third line anyways.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 01:16 PM
They have no choice. You have to maximize your assets. You can't afford to just have $5 million in dead cap space for 6 years.

They have no choice but to put him in a position to succeed. Otherwise you are giving your team no chance to compete for the next 6 years. You play him on the 4th line and you can forget about sabotaging your second line, you are sabotaging your team for 6 years.

Hurting your team in the short run is well worth saving it in the long run.

hockeylover
07-15-2014, 01:21 PM
If one were a member of Tank Nation, they would definitely approve of the plan to force feed him second line minutes this year.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 01:23 PM
And last year wasn't the first time Clarkson had a terrible year either. He had an 18 point season a couple years ago for the Devils and rebounded with opportunity. The teams only hope here is for him to have a good season. They are completely ****ed if he doesn't.

How can you compete with a cap $5 million lower than everyone else for the foreseeable future? You can't.

LeafGm
07-15-2014, 01:36 PM
That cap space is gone, leafman. Live with it. Shoe-horning Clarkson into the second line and stubbornly leaving him there while he drags them into the abyss won't magically bring forth teams willing to take on his contract.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 01:40 PM
No it won't. But if he has a good year it will. And you have to do everything in your power to set him up to have a good year. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

If he doesn't you are still in the same position you are in now. And if he does you can dump some of that contract.

Lets not forget that out of his last 3 years last season was the outlier, not the norm. He has had success before being force fed minutes he really didn't earn. It earned him offers even bigger than what he got from us.

worm
07-15-2014, 01:41 PM
You ice the best team. You do not hurt yourself trying to get him going.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 01:44 PM
You hurt the team in the long run by not getting him going. I don't get why everyone is so short term oriented. They aren't winning the cup this year, and if they can't get Clarkson going they aren't winning it for the five years after that either.

Its all about the good of the team in the long run. Who cares if he stinks for the first half of the year this season and is force fed minutes? Is that really the most important thing here? Of course not.

LeafGm
07-15-2014, 01:45 PM
I think this year provided us with plenty of evidence that, yes, there is plenty to lose by playing him in a top-6 role.

And what's a "good year" for Clarkson? Getting past single-digits in goals, and cracking the 20 point-plateau? With second line ice-time?

No ****ing thanks. Give him what he earns.

zeke
07-15-2014, 01:46 PM
The only way you're gonna get him to look decent again is to give him the top unit PP minutes he was getting in nj.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 01:46 PM
Then you are just waiving the white flag on the next half decade of the Maple Leafs. Personally I am not sure why any Leafs fan would want to do that, it doesn't make much sense from any perspective, but to each their own I guess.

This is a guy that has shown he can score 20+ goals and have teams fawning over him while being force fed opportunity. That is what this team needs to happen. Badly.

zeke
07-15-2014, 01:48 PM
Christ almighty how does nonis still work here?

Volcanologist
07-15-2014, 01:51 PM
They have held virtually nobody accountable. No one cares about assistant coaches, they weren't the problem and everyone knows it.

LeafGm
07-15-2014, 02:22 PM
Then you are just waiving the white flag on the next half decade of the Maple Leafs. Personally I am not sure why any Leafs fan would want to do that, it doesn't make much sense from any perspective, but to each their own I guess.

This is a guy that has shown he can score 20+ goals and have teams fawning over him while being force fed opportunity. That is what this team needs to happen. Badly.
This is a 30 year old guy who's been playing in the NHL for eight years now, and he's hit the 20-goal and 40 point plateaus exactly once in a Kulemin-esque fluke outlier of a season three years ago. The choice for me is choosing to continue to live in denial about what exactly David Clarkson is as a hockey player, or accepting it and trying to make the best of the situation.

As you say though, to each their own.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 02:24 PM
No need to be disingenuous. Clarkson played at a 20+ goal pace two of the last three seasons, and 3 of the last 5, all of which he was forcefed minutes.

Its not about thinking he is more than he is as a hockey player. He is a guy who topped out at 40 points with lots of PP time. Its not impressive at all. But GMs around the league thought it was, and that is the key here.

That is the ONLY way to make the best of the situation. Just eating the cap hit for the next 6 years is making the worst of it. It can't get any worse than that. That is as bad as it gets.

He's shown in the past he can do enough to get you out of this mess. Not giving him that opportunity...well it wouldn't make any sense given the situations they've gotten themselves in. There is no logic in not doing everything possible to try and get out of the contract.

BG
07-15-2014, 02:52 PM
Top 25 forwards ranked by consistency (% games w/ points):

2.) Evgeni Malkin (75%)
3.) John Tavares (72.9%)
4.) Ryan Getzlaf (71.4%)
5.) Taylor Hall (66.7%)
6.) Patrick Kane (66.7%)
7.) Joe Thornton (65.9%)
8.) Claude Giroux (64.6%)
9.) Henrik Zetterberg (64.4%)
10.) Corey Perry (64.2%)
11.) Jamie Benn (64.2%)
12.) Erik Karlsson (63.4%)
13.) Matt Duchene (63.4%)
14.) James Neal (62.7%)
15.) Patrick Sharp (62.2%)
16.) Bryan Little (62.2%)
17.) Alexander Steen (61.8%)
18.) Alex Ovechkin (61.5%)
19.) Tyler Seguin (61.3%)
20.) Zach Parise (61.2%)
21.) Anze Kopitar (61%)
22.) Kyle Okposo (60.6%)
23.) Jonathan Toews (60.5%)
24.) Thomas Vanek (60.3%)
25.) Chris Kunitz (60.3%)
26.) Tyler Bozak (60.3%)
27.) Joe Pavelski (59.8%)
28.) Eric Staal (59.5%)
29.) Steven Stamkos (59.5%)
30.) David Krejci (58.8%)
31.) Phil Kessel (58.5%)

hockeylover
07-15-2014, 02:59 PM
Top 25 forwards ranked by consistency (% games w/ points):

2.) Evgeni Malkin (75%)
3.) John Tavares (72.9%)
4.) Ryan Getzlaf (71.4%)
5.) Taylor Hall (66.7%)
6.) Patrick Kane (66.7%)
7.) Joe Thornton (65.9%)
8.) Claude Giroux (64.6%)
9.) Henrik Zetterberg (64.4%)
10.) Corey Perry (64.2%)
11.) Jamie Benn (64.2%)
12.) Erik Karlsson (63.4%)
13.) Matt Duchene (63.4%)
14.) James Neal (62.7%)
15.) Patrick Sharp (62.2%)
16.) Bryan Little (62.2%)
17.) Alexander Steen (61.8%)
18.) Alex Ovechkin (61.5%)
19.) Tyler Seguin (61.3%)
20.) Zach Parise (61.2%)
21.) Anze Kopitar (61%)
22.) Kyle Okposo (60.6%)
23.) Jonathan Toews (60.5%)
24.) Thomas Vanek (60.3%)
25.) Chris Kunitz (60.3%)
26.) Tyler Bozak (60.3%)
27.) Joe Pavelski (59.8%)
28.) Eric Staal (59.5%)
29.) Steven Stamkos (59.5%)
30.) David Krejci (58.8%)
31.) Phil Kessel (58.5%)

The year before he was at 67%.
The year before that he was 70%.

Also the first year that Bozak has missed any significant time.

WellPlayed
07-15-2014, 03:28 PM
Should be adjusted for production so that you get a ranking based on how evenly spread the player's points are relative to their own production.

As is I would think there is a pretty heavy bias toward guys with higher PPG, wonder how it changes when you eliminate that. Although I doubt making that adjustment will help Phil.

BG
07-15-2014, 03:56 PM
Should be adjusted for production so that you get a ranking based on how evenly spread the player's points are relative to their own production.

As is I would think there is a pretty heavy bias toward guys with higher PPG, wonder how it changes when you eliminate that. Although I doubt making that adjustment will help Phil.

I like the stat, yeah it doesn't distinguish between a player that scores 2 points per game vs 1 point per game - but it does give a very nice reflection of how much impact a player has on a game-to-game basis.

BG
07-15-2014, 03:57 PM
dupe.

BG
07-15-2014, 03:57 PM
The year before he was at 67%.
The year before that he was 70%.

Also the first year that Bozak has missed any significant time.

..and yeah, I didn't post Kessel/Bozak to make them look bad. Fact is, in the entire league, those guys are still top players when it comes to NHL impact on games.

hockeylover
07-15-2014, 04:00 PM
..and yeah, I didn't post Kessel/Bozak to make them look bad. Fact is, in the entire league, those guys are still top players when it comes to NHL impact on games.

I didn't think you did. I just remember seeing him being close to very top of this stat the two seasons before so I checked. Sure enough...

BG
07-15-2014, 04:09 PM
cool.

Bleedsblue&white
07-15-2014, 04:25 PM
Christ almighty how does nonis still work here?

I'm telling ya, he's already on the way out. Shanahan will practice due diligence, watch the team for most of this season, then it's hammer time.
New GM, he picks his coach, yada yada 67....

BG
07-15-2014, 04:36 PM
yada yada 67....

I gotta use that on some Leafs haters I know.. as soon as they get that gleam in their eye whenever something about the Leafs is mentioned on Sportsnet.. "Yada Yada 67"....

MindzEye
07-15-2014, 05:00 PM
No need to be disingenuous. Clarkson played at a 20+ goal pace two of the last three seasons, and 3 of the last 5, all of which he was forcefed minutes.

Its not about thinking he is more than he is as a hockey player. He is a guy who topped out at 40 points with lots of PP time. Its not impressive at all. But GMs around the league thought it was, and that is the key here.

That is the ONLY way to make the best of the situation. Just eating the cap hit for the next 6 years is making the worst of it. It can't get any worse than that. That is as bad as it gets.

He's shown in the past he can do enough to get you out of this mess. Not giving him that opportunity...well it wouldn't make any sense given the situations they've gotten themselves in. There is no logic in not doing everything possible to try and get out of the contract.

Clarkson has a NMC. If he is "contributing" to the team, he won't be willing to waive to leave. Remember, he took a ****ing discount to come here. The only hope of being rid of him before the end of the contract is starving him out (aka, competing for a spot) and making him want to leave. Then, if we eat half of his contract (or take back an equally gross contract) we might, might be able to move him.

Force feeding him minutes and getting him back up into the ~20 goal range is the best way to ensure that he never wants to leave.

leafman101
07-15-2014, 05:22 PM
He has a limited NTC. There is likely a list of 10-15 teams.

The NMC part just prevents him from being sent to the AHL.

JackBurton
07-15-2014, 09:52 PM
The only way you're gonna get him to look decent again is to give him the top unit PP minutes he was getting in nj.

The problem is, our wingers are so much better than in Jersey. That won't happen.

Pucklosopher
07-16-2014, 09:25 AM
The Clarkson deal isn't salvageable. Letting him drag down the Kadri line hurts the team.

Just ignore the contract and play him wherever he can contribute, even if that's the 4th line.

LeafOfFaith
07-16-2014, 12:58 PM
Clarkson is a third liner. Play him on the third line.

He'll contribute there.

zeke
07-16-2014, 01:01 PM
Clarkson was a mediocre fourth liner last year.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:08 PM
Just have to give him PP time. He scored goals in that role while getting 3rd line minutes in Jersey. You get him to pot a few goals and you can easily dump him.

hockeylover
07-16-2014, 02:15 PM
Just have to give him PP time. He scored goals in that role while getting 3rd line minutes in Jersey. You get him to pot a few goals and you can easily dump him.

He was getting more PP time than Kessel when he was in Jersey though.

MyNameIsJonas
07-16-2014, 02:16 PM
Just have to give him PP time. He scored goals in that role while getting 3rd line minutes in Jersey. You get him to pot a few goals and you can easily dump him.

You really think other GM's are that dumb?

Or that Nonis is that smart?

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:17 PM
GMs are that dumb. Clarkson took a discount to come here.

You have to take advantage of that.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:21 PM
He was getting more PP time than Kessel when he was in Jersey though.

In his last two years in Jersey Clarkson had 14 PPG (10 assists). The last two years JVR had 14 ppg (7 assists). #freeclarkson #whateverittakes

hockeylover
07-16-2014, 02:25 PM
In his last two years in Jersey Clarkson had 14 PPG (10 assists). The last two years JVR had 14 ppg (7 assists). #freeclarkson #whateverittakes

Clarkson with the 2012 Devils: 3:33 minutes per game PP
Kessel with the 2012 Leafs: 3:18 minutes per game PP

And if we do that, he MIGHT score at a 40 point pace. Woo, sign me up!

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:25 PM
Clarkson with the 2012 Devils: 3:33 minutes per game PP
Kessel with the 2012 Leafs: 3:18 minutes per game PP

And if we do that, he MIGHT score at a 40 point pace and we might be able to get rid of him. Woo, sign me up!

FYP

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:26 PM
I can honestly say that the Leafs couldn't make a better move right now than finding a sucker to take Clarkson. Thats the worst contract that has ever been handed out in hockey.

MyNameIsJonas
07-16-2014, 02:27 PM
Whose minutes do you cut on the PP to give this time to Clarkson?

MyNameIsJonas
07-16-2014, 02:27 PM
I can honestly say that the Leafs couldn't make a better move right now than finding a sucker to take Clarkson.

But it's not possible.

hockeylover
07-16-2014, 02:27 PM
FYP

You're the guy who's been arguing in the other threads here that suggesting Shanahan "isn't trying" or is "writing this season off" is really unfair but you think he should give David Clarkson 3 minutes a game in PP time, right? Just checking.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:28 PM
Teams were offering him MORE money last year. If he has a good year he is tradeable.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:29 PM
You're the guy who's been arguing in the other threads here that suggesting Shanahan "isn't trying" or is "writing this season off" is really unfair but you think he should give David Clarkson 3 minutes a game in PP time, right? Just checking.

He was fine in that role though. Its not like he didn't do anything and was hurting his team. The Devils went to the cup final.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:30 PM
From 2011-12 - 2012-13 Clarkson was 22nd in the NHL in PP goals. Tied with Iginla, Jagr and Parise.

Thats fine. I can live with that all day if it means dumping him.

MyNameIsJonas
07-16-2014, 02:33 PM
Teams were offering him MORE money last year. If he has a good year he is tradeable.

and then last year happened...and all of those GM's found Jesus

LeafGm
07-16-2014, 02:33 PM
You're the guy who's been arguing in the other threads here that suggesting Shanahan "isn't trying" or is "writing this season off" is really unfair but you think he should give David Clarkson 3 minutes a game in PP time, right? Just checking.
Leafman's really becoming an expert at talking out of both sides of his mouth this off-season.

Clarkson is the worst contract in hockey, and the most important thing we can do is do whatever it takes to get rid of him. But at the same time, apparently giving him a ton of power-play time and top-6 ice-time won't hurt us on the ice.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:34 PM
He does the same thing as JVR on the PP. Just stand in front of the net.

And I am being factious. He doesn't have to play on the top unit. But put him on the PP, get him some garbage goals and get him the **** out of town.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:35 PM
Clarkson is the worst contract in hockey, and the most important thing we can do is do whatever it takes to get rid of him. But at the same time, apparently giving him a ton of power-play time and top-6 ice-time won't hurt us on the ice.

I didn't say top 6 ice time, just PP time. He played on the 3rd line in Jersey.

And he didn't hurt them at all. He helped them. Just not at a level worth anything close to $5.25 million for 7 years.

LeafGm
07-16-2014, 02:36 PM
You heard it here first.

Clarkson = JVR.

Scoring goals on the PP is just that easy.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:37 PM
The Devils went further than the Leafs have in 40 years with Clarkson getting a big role on the PP. There is no inconsistency at all. Perfectly consistent.

MyNameIsJonas
07-16-2014, 02:38 PM
He does the same thing as JVR on the PP. Just stand in front of the net.

And I am being factious. He doesn't have to play on the top unit. But put him on the PP, get him some garbage goals and get him the **** out of town.

It's not even close to that easy.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:38 PM
Clarkson = JVR.



I didn't say that either.

hockeylover
07-16-2014, 02:38 PM
I didn't say top 6 ice time, just PP time. He played on the 3rd line in Jersey.

And he didn't hurt them at all. He helped them. Just not at a level worth anything close to $5.25 million for 7 years.

You've previously stated that he should be our second line RW though, correct?

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:39 PM
It's not even close to that easy.

It really is. The NHL is a what have you done for me lately league. Thats why Clarkson was getting $6 million offers.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:39 PM
You've previously stated that he should be our second line RW though, correct?

No I've penciled Nylander/Leivo/Santorelli/Holland/Frattin/whatever young guy can win the job there.

hockeylover
07-16-2014, 02:40 PM
No I've penciled Nylander/Leivo/Santorelli/Holland/Frattin/whatever young guy can win the job there.

We JUST had this discussion. I feel like that's not what you said at all.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:46 PM
We JUST had this discussion. I feel like that's not what you said at all.

July 7

As of now:

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Nylander/Leivo
Komarov-Kontiola-Clarkson
Ashton-Holland-Frattin

...

July 3:

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Kontiola/Nylander/Leivo
Holland-Legwand-Clarkson
Ashton-Komarov-Frattin

July 2:

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Leivo/Nylander
Komarov-Holland-Clarkson
Ashton-XXXX-Frattin

hockeylover
07-16-2014, 02:49 PM
Yeah, I just reviewed the thread. Looks like for all your "force feed" minutes stuff you stopped short of ever saying he should be on the second line. A lot of people you were arguing with were talking about him dragging down the Kadri line and you kept at it so I'm not really sure why, if that was the case.

But I have him on my third line too, begrudgingly so we're not on different pages on anything other than that PP time...

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:50 PM
I literally just posted this lineup 30 minutes ago in the other thread to update cap status:


FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($8.000m)
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Mike Santorelli ($1.500m)
Leo Komarov ($2.950m) / Petri Kontiola ($1.100m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
Carter Ashton ($0.851m) / Matt Frattin ($0.800m)
Troy Bodie ($0.600m) / Trevor Smith ($0.550m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Morgan Rielly ($0.894m) / Dion Phaneuf ($7.000m)
Stephane Robidas ($3.000m)
Roman Polak ($2.750m)
Petter Granberg ($0.800m) /

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)

BUYOUTS
Mike Komisarek ($0.000m)
Mikhail Grabovski ($0.000m)
Tim Gleason ($0.833m)
RETAINED SALARIES (0.29% of upper limit)
Carl Gunnarsson ($0.200m—6.35%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$450,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $57,028,000;
BONUSES: $950,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $11,972,000

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:52 PM
Yeah, I just reviewed the thread. Looks like for all your "force feed" minutes stuff you stopped short of ever saying he should be on the second line. A lot of people you were arguing with were talking about him dragging down the Kadri line and you kept at it so I'm not really sure why, if that was the case.

But I have him on my third line too, begrudgingly so we're not on different pages on anything other than that PP time...

Don't get me wrong. I don't WANT him on the PP. I don't even want him on the team. I just want him gone and IMO that is the only way unfortunately.

If he has another shitty year we are stuck.

hockeylover
07-16-2014, 02:55 PM
Don't get me wrong. I don't WANT him on the PP. I don't even want him on the team. I just want him gone and IMO that is the only way unfortunately.

Sadly, he'll probably see a slight increase in PP TOI. Last year only Kessel, JVR, Lupul and Raymond were ahead of him. He's not going to get anywhere close to what he got in Jersey though nor should he. And it'll still be pretty tragic if you have a Leivo or a Nylander outplay him for that PP ice time and force feed him anyways because you made a horrific mistake.

leafman101
07-16-2014, 02:59 PM
I agree with all of that. It is tragic. Its just that the ramifications of $5.25 million of dead cap space for the next 6 years are worse though.

He has to have a good year. Either that or he has to retire, and they have to offer him a real cushy job.

zeke
07-16-2014, 03:01 PM
You forget that clarkson did get pp time to start with, its just that he sucked there too.


PP production

Kadri: 185:33, 7g, 18p (Per 60m: 2.26g, 5.82p)
Kessel: 257:09, 8g, 20p (Per 60m: 1.87g, 4.67p)
Lupul: 168:09, 6g, 12p (Per 60m: 2.14g, 4.28p)
Raymond: 161:56, 6g, 11p (Per 60m: 2.22g, 4.08p)
Vanryk: 251:39, 9g, 15p (Per 60m: 2.15g, 3.58p)
Bozak: 156:24, 5g, 8p (Per 60m: 1.92g, 3.07p)
Clarkson: 63:54, 1g, 2p (Per 60m: 0.94g, 1.88p)
--------
Bolland: 13:34, 1g, 2p (Per 60m: 4.42g, 8.85p)
Holland: 7:04, 1g, 1p (Per 60m: 8.49g, 8.49p)
Smith: 11:12, 0g, 1p (Per 60m: 0.00g, 5.36p)

(no other forward got even 5 minutes of pp time, or scored a pp point).

I'm sure they'll give him another chance on the second unit to start the year. Should be no excuses for him - kadri and lupul are excellent on the pp.

On another note, the top pp unit should be kessel, kadri, and lupul.

gilmour93forever
07-17-2014, 08:27 AM
You forget that clarkson did get pp time to start with, its just that he sucked there too.


PP production

Kadri: 185:33, 7g, 18p (Per 60m: 2.26g, 5.82p)
Kessel: 257:09, 8g, 20p (Per 60m: 1.87g, 4.67p)
Lupul: 168:09, 6g, 12p (Per 60m: 2.14g, 4.28p)
Raymond: 161:56, 6g, 11p (Per 60m: 2.22g, 4.08p)
Vanryk: 251:39, 9g, 15p (Per 60m: 2.15g, 3.58p)
Bozak: 156:24, 5g, 8p (Per 60m: 1.92g, 3.07p)
Clarkson: 63:54, 1g, 2p (Per 60m: 0.94g, 1.88p)
--------
Bolland: 13:34, 1g, 2p (Per 60m: 4.42g, 8.85p)
Holland: 7:04, 1g, 1p (Per 60m: 8.49g, 8.49p)
Smith: 11:12, 0g, 1p (Per 60m: 0.00g, 5.36p)

(no other forward got even 5 minutes of pp time, or scored a pp point).

I'm sure they'll give him another chance on the second unit to start the year. Should be no excuses for him - kadri and lupul are excellent on the pp.

On another note, the top pp unit should be kessel, kadri, and lupul.

Nah, IMO our first unit should be:

Kessel - Kadri(Bozak) - JVR
Rielly - Phaneuf

With Rielly playing the top-middle and Kessel/Phaneuf on either side with the shots, Kadri floating around (half-boards, behind the net, slot) and JVR in front of the net/off to either side. The problem is this messes with the natural flow of the lines, so your most likely looking at Bozak keeping that position, even though Kadri makes more sense. This was the typical set-up from last year, with Rielly being the key player inserted. And our PP was effective last year anyways.

Which leaves your most likely second unit being:

Lupul - Nylander(Kadri) - Holland(Clarkson)
Bozak(Franson) - Gardiner

Because Bozak will be placed on the first unit, Kadri will play on the 2nd, but in all actuality it should be Nylander for his 9 game trial (which SHOULD be a formality for a kid of his talent). Then I would make Bozak and Gardiner the d-men on their opposite sides, Lupul and Phaneuf with the opposite side shots/big bodies to alternate going the front of the net and flaring out for the proper shot positioning, while letting Nylander be the rover on either side of the ice to facilitate. The second unit should be more focused on crashing the net though, which is why I would line up Holland as a winger here, even if I assume Clarkson gets the spot.

Now think of this, with a R-R-L-L (Lupul-Bozak-Gardiner-Holland) umbrella, you can allow the top of the umbrella to be R-R-L with Holland in front and Bozak the top of the umbrella OR R-L-L with Lupul in front and Gardiner the top of the umbrella. Either way, you get a good passer to facilitate and a big body guy to get the traffic in front. Would take some practicing, but I think this maximizes our PP on the 2nd unit.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 11:01 AM
I agree with all of that. It is tragic. Its just that the ramifications of $5.25 million of dead cap space for the next 6 years are worse though.

He has to have a good year. Either that or he has to retire, and they have to offer him a real cushy job.

His cap hit goes up though, by the time he's in his last year he's making $7m.

soco22
07-17-2014, 11:04 AM
His cap hit goes up though, by the time he's in his last year he's making $7m.

Hmmm...cap is not cash in each year. Avg amount over life of contract.

Deckie007
07-17-2014, 11:21 AM
His cap hit goes up though, by the time he's in his last year he's making $7m.

You wouldn't look quite so dumb if you used readily available sites like capgeek before making statements like that.

David Clarkson Salary File (http://capgeek.com/player/780)

LeafOfFaith
07-17-2014, 12:00 PM
Everyone should forget about the ****ing money already. It's gone, spent.

He should be a very good third liner for us, salary aside, and hopefully a character guy in the playoffs. There's no reason why he can't play that role.

And we don't have a cap problem in any way whatsoever, with all our top guys locked up for now, with Gardiner, Kadri, and Rielly soon to be.

Let's just be optimistic and put a terrible year (which netted us Nylander) behind us.

zeke
07-17-2014, 12:26 PM
The really sad thing about clarkson is that offense was the BEST part of his game. He's a liability defensively and far too slow to be an effective forechecker. He's a mediocre middleweight fighter, and his physical game all around is less than intimidating. As for his "character", the dude is a weirdo.

BG
07-17-2014, 12:32 PM
Rumour has it, zeke is up in the draft.

zeke
07-17-2014, 12:40 PM
Nah, IMO our first unit should be:

Kessel - Kadri(Bozak) - JVR
Rielly - Phaneuf

With Rielly playing the top-middle and Kessel/Phaneuf on either side with the shots, Kadri floating around (half-boards, behind the net, slot) and JVR in front of the net/off to either side. The problem is this messes with the natural flow of the lines, so your most likely looking at Bozak keeping that position, even though Kadri makes more sense. This was the typical set-up from last year, with Rielly being the key player inserted. And our PP was effective last year anyways.

Which leaves your most likely second unit being:

Lupul - Nylander(Kadri) - Holland(Clarkson)
Bozak(Franson) - Gardiner

Because Bozak will be placed on the first unit, Kadri will play on the 2nd, but in all actuality it should be Nylander for his 9 game trial (which SHOULD be a formality for a kid of his talent). Then I would make Bozak and Gardiner the d-men on their opposite sides, Lupul and Phaneuf with the opposite side shots/big bodies to alternate going the front of the net and flaring out for the proper shot positioning, while letting Nylander be the rover on either side of the ice to facilitate. The second unit should be more focused on crashing the net though, which is why I would line up Holland as a winger here, even if I assume Clarkson gets the spot.

Now think of this, with a R-R-L-L (Lupul-Bozak-Gardiner-Holland) umbrella, you can allow the top of the umbrella to be R-R-L with Holland in front and Bozak the top of the umbrella OR R-L-L with Lupul in front and Gardiner the top of the umbrella. Either way, you get a good passer to facilitate and a big body guy to get the traffic in front. Would take some practicing, but I think this maximizes our PP on the 2nd unit.


You could be right. But its arguable.

I like Kadri on the sideboards opposite kessel, but maybe a bit further down because his shot is not as much of a weapon. With Kadri a little lower on his side and kessel a little high on his side, it might make most sense to have the net guy be a righty.

I imagine a setup fluctuating between this:

----------------[[[]]]
----------- Lupul
--------------------------- Kadri
-- Kessel
---------------------- Phaneuf
------- Jake/Mo


And this:


-------------- [[[]]]
------------------
------Lupul----------Kadri
------------------
-- Kessel -------------- Phaneuf
------------ Jake/Mo

Habspatrol
07-17-2014, 12:46 PM
Clarkson is the kind of guy you'd love for your team to draft in the 5th round. Develop and have signed to a 3 year deal at $1.5m or less to play in your bottom 6.

Pucklosopher
07-17-2014, 01:02 PM
You could be right. But its arguable.

I like Kadri on the sideboards opposite kessel, but maybe a bit further down because his shot is not as much of a weapon. With Kadri a little lower on his side and kessel a little high on his side, it might make most sense to have the net guy be a righty.

I imagine a setup fluctuating between this:

----------------[[[]]]
----------- Lupul
--------------------------- Kadri
-- Kessel
---------------------- Phaneuf
------- Jake/Mo


And this:


-------------- [[[]]]
------------------
------Lupul----------Kadri
------------------
-- Kessel -------------- Phaneuf
------------ Jake/Mo

This is a pretty cool way of examining a PP. Did you just come up with that?

It's sort of the one part of hockey that's static enough that you can look at the spacing like in basketball.

zeke
07-17-2014, 01:11 PM
We've done all sorts of cool shit around here over the years. You shoulda seen us in our heydey before real life encroached on our hockey research time.

MindzEye
07-17-2014, 01:13 PM
Yeah man, being able to hang out and smoke weed for hours on end while going through every 30 goal/60 point scorer in the last 30 years looking for correlation between junior scoring prowess and NHL potential was great fun.

Not as much fun as you know, having a legit career and cute significant other...but fun.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:09 PM
You wouldn't look quite so dumb if you used readily available sites like capgeek before making statements like that.

David Clarkson Salary File (http://capgeek.com/player/780)

Nhl numbers has his last year locked in at 7 million, check it out......

LeafGm
07-17-2014, 02:13 PM
Nhl numbers has his last year locked in at 7 million, check it out......
If you don't mind, could you post us a picture of the helmet that you wear everywhere?

Habspatrol
07-17-2014, 02:32 PM
Nhl numbers has his last year locked in at 7 million, check it out......

Like people keep telling you... and as it's been for a decade now. Your salary in any individual season is meaningless. It's the total salary of the entire contract divided by the amount of years. That gives you the average salary... and that's the cap hit for the entire length of the contract.

If you sign a 2 year contract for 10 million. The salary could be $4m this year and $6m next year, the cap hit for both seasons will be $5m.

Deckie007
07-17-2014, 02:33 PM
If you don't mind, could you post us a picture of the helmet that you wear everywhere?
There's no way he's allowed to take it off.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:39 PM
If you don't mind, could you post us a picture of the helmet that you wear everywhere?

Seriously.... Grow the **** up

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:39 PM
There's no way he's allowed to take it off.

I'd show leaf gm but given how it's permanently glued to your head, makes it kind of impossible.

MyNameIsJonas
07-17-2014, 02:43 PM
I'd show leaf gm but given how it's permanently glued to your head, makes it kind of impossible.

What?

And stop making the same god damn mistakes over and over again and maybe people will grow up.

Also this is the internet, the wonderful world where you get ridiculed if you are an idiot.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:45 PM
Oh look who it is, deckies little juvenile buddy... Why am I not surprised u show up mere minutes after he posts.

MyNameIsJonas
07-17-2014, 02:46 PM
Oh look who it is, deckies little juvenile buddy... Why am I not surprised u shows up mere minutes after he posts.

Believe it or not, i was trying to help you there.

It was literally one of the few times i chose not to get personal with you.

worm
07-17-2014, 02:47 PM
You wouldn't look quite so dumb if you used readily available sites like capgeek before making statements like that.

David Clarkson Salary File (http://capgeek.com/player/780)

Take it easy. It is still new...Give it another decade or two.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:47 PM
What?

And stop making the same god damn mistakes over and over again and maybe people will grow up.

Also this is the internet, the wonderful world where you get ridiculed if you are an idiot.

This is the hilarious double standard part about these boards, I make a mistake and I get tarred and feathered for it yet other posters make errors and they don't get 1 10th of the scrutiny I recieve....it's laughable.

zeke
07-17-2014, 02:48 PM
Agree, p84!

MindzEye
07-17-2014, 02:49 PM
Also this is the internet, the wonderful world where you get ridiculed if you are an idiot.

You make this shit way too easy..

MyNameIsJonas
07-17-2014, 02:49 PM
This is the hilarious double standard part about these boards, I make a mistake and I get tarred and feathered for it yet other posters make errors and they don't get 1 10th of the scrutiny I recieve....it's laughable.

a) you make 10 times more mistakes than other posters
b) you make the same mistake over and over again.

Habspatrol
07-17-2014, 02:50 PM
This is the hilarious double standard part about these boards, I make a mistake and I get tarred and feathered for it yet other posters make errors and they don't get 1 10th of the scrutiny I recieve....it's laughable.

To be fair, I answered you in a polite and informative fashion and you appear to have ignored me completely while replying to all of the haters. If you only reply to them and not the people who genuinely help try to help you then you're likely to continue getting that type of response.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:51 PM
A. Disagree, I make the same amount of mistakes as other posters in here b. the big difference is when I do make miscalculutations (which is often) I own them.

BG
07-17-2014, 02:51 PM
Nhl numbers has his last year locked in at 7 million, check it out......

1. Delete the nhlnumbers bookmark and add capgeek, it is the true standard

2. NHLNumbers only shows 5 years of Clarkson's deal, there are two more unseen years where he is paid 4.75 and 3.25

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:52 PM
To be fair, I answered you in a polite and informative fashion and you appear to have ignored me completely while replying to all of the haters. If you only reply to them and not the people who genuinely help try to help you then you're likely to continue getting that type of response.

I know, sorry didn't mean to ignore you there got caught up in snarking back to minij. Thanks for the cap information, and yea I was off on the cap situation.

Habspatrol
07-17-2014, 02:54 PM
I know, sorry didn't mean to ignore you there got caught up in snarking back to minij. Thanks for the cap information, and yea I was off on the cap situation.

It's all good, just trying to help you again.

MyNameIsJonas
07-17-2014, 02:54 PM
A. Disagree, I make the same amount of mistakes as other posters in here b. the big difference is when I do make miscalculutations (which is often) I own them.

You keep saying that you own your mistakes, but making them more than once would indicate that to be false.

And no, you do not make the same amount of errors as other posters.

Your post to mistake ratio is at an all time high, that said you seem to improve more and more for the most part.

Just stop being so god damn defensive when you have a hoard of people telling you that you are incorrect.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:55 PM
It's all good, just trying to help you again.

Thanks I appreciate it.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 02:56 PM
You keep saying that you own your mistakes, but making them more than once would indicate that to be false.

And no, you do not make the same amount of errors as other posters.

Your post to mistake ratio is at an all time high, that said you seem to improve more and more for the most part.

Just stop being so god damn defensive when you have a hoard of people telling you that you are incorrect.

I'm never defensive when it comes to admitting when I'm wrong, what I do take issue with at times is the cheap personal shots thrown my way.

MyNameIsJonas
07-17-2014, 02:58 PM
I'm never defensive when it comes to admitting when I'm wrong, what I do take issue with at times is the cheap personal shots thrown my way.

that's not what i'm accusing you of being defensive about.

And really, if you look back i bet you most of those cheap personal shots are brought on by yourself.

Probably not all of them, but a good chunk.

Ask yourself, if you make the same amount of mistakes as everyone else, like you think, and you own up to being wrong, like you think. Why are you the only one taking heaps and heaps of verbal shit from tens of posters here?

worm
07-17-2014, 03:02 PM
Not all mistakes are equal.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 03:03 PM
You we're accusing me of being defensive when wrong that is what you said, I was telling u for the most part I'm not overly defensive. As for me bringing on personal cheap shots.... No everyone is responsible for their own choices in life, I'm not responsible for anyone who chooses to throw pot shots at me. As for why... I can't speak for others on why they elect to behave like 5 year olds in here at times.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 03:04 PM
Not all mistakes are equal.

Never said they were.

MyNameIsJonas
07-17-2014, 03:06 PM
You we're accusing me of being defensive when wrong that is what you said, I was telling u for the most part I'm not overly defensive. As for me bringing on personal cheap shots.... No everyone is responsible for their own choices in life, I'm not responsible for anyone who chooses to throw pot shots at me. As for why... I can't speak for others on why they elect to behave like 5 year olds in here at times.

I quit bro.

Blueman
07-17-2014, 06:44 PM
[QUOTE=MyNameIsJonas;2383860]I quit bro.[/QUOTE

What is that all you got?

worm
07-17-2014, 09:20 PM
come @ me bro

LeafOfFaith
07-17-2014, 09:59 PM
P84 took on all of you and won.

Give him a little more of a challenge please.

Pronger84
07-17-2014, 10:16 PM
Yea I sent that little std mniji running but like to herpes he'll be be back only for me to crush him again.

fergy57
07-18-2014, 12:04 AM
I have always thought that Pronger84 was kind of the de facto Ken M. of this board, subtly trolling all of us at a genius level. If you go back and read his posts with this in mind, your mind will be blown.

Blueman
07-18-2014, 12:12 AM
I have always thought that Pronger84 was kind of the de facto Ken M. of this board, subtly trolling all of us at a genius level. If you go back and read his posts with this in mind, your mind will be blown.
This may be true. Wonder what a Pronger fan is doing on a Leaf board anyways.

Metalleaf
07-18-2014, 12:17 AM
What? We can't be fans of players from other teams? For shame!

Blueman
07-18-2014, 07:42 AM
What? We can't be fans of players from other teams? For shame!

Just went with it and needed an excuse to pronger quote

worm
07-18-2014, 10:33 AM
I have always thought that Pronger84 was kind of the de facto Ken M. of this board, subtly trolling all of us at a genius level. If you go back and read his posts with this in mind, your mind will be blown.

KB was more like Ken M.

Habspatrol
07-18-2014, 10:49 AM
I have always thought that Pronger84 was kind of the de facto Ken M. of this board, subtly trolling all of us at a genius level. If you go back and read his posts with this in mind, your mind will be blown.

If that's true the guy is a freakin genius of epic proportions.

Habspatrol
07-18-2014, 10:51 AM
KB was more like Ken M.

With the subtlety of a rhinoceros.

MindzEye
07-18-2014, 10:58 AM
KB was more like Ken Hamm.

FYP

Pronger84
07-18-2014, 11:37 AM
I have always thought that Pronger84 was kind of the de facto Ken M. of this board, subtly trolling all of us at a genius level. If you go back and read his posts with this in mind, your mind will be blown.

I'm flattered but I'm not a genius and I have far better things to do then to troll you guys all day long.

Volcanologist
07-18-2014, 04:47 PM
:lol

I don't think these exchanges will ever stop being funny.

LeafOfFaith
07-18-2014, 05:22 PM
Funny? I feel so bad for the posters that P84 brutalizes on a daily basis without a second thought.

And then to add salt to the wound, he does the whole quote thing improperly so that they burn even more.

Maybe the most subtle yet vicious poster ever, this P84.

corksens
07-19-2014, 10:39 AM
I'm flattered but I'm not a genius and I have far better things to do then to troll you guys all day long.Doubt it.

Metalleaf
07-28-2014, 05:45 PM
Thought this was kind of cool...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xFq499xDzQ

hockeylover
07-30-2014, 09:23 AM
The Hockey News ‏@TheHockeyNews 12m
According to @THNKenCampbell, P.K. Subban seeking $8.5 million in arbitration. Habs submitted an offer of $5.25 million on a one-year deal.

Wow, lowball or what.

leafman101
07-30-2014, 09:24 AM
Don't get teams that try to penny pinch their best players. The Hawks do it the right way.

LeafGm
07-30-2014, 09:34 AM
I know in arbitration, you want to submit the lowest figure as a starting point, but come the **** on. Not counting the guy in net, the guy's their best player by a country mile, and he's the face of their franchise. Just make him a fair offer and pay him what he's worth.

If you want to compel him to bolt as soon as he hits UFA, this is the way you go about doing it.

hockeylover
07-30-2014, 09:36 AM
I know in arbitration, you want to submit the lowest figure as a starting point, but come the **** on. Not counting the guy in net, the guy's their best player by a country mile, and he's the face of their franchise. Just make him a fair offer and pay him what he's worth.

If you want to compel him to bolt as soon as he hits UFA, this is the way you go about doing it.

Yeah, that's not just low, that's ugly IMO.

hairnova
07-30-2014, 09:39 AM
I'll still be shocked if he doesn't sign an eight-year deal before the hearing.

I've predicted eight years, $72 million from the beginning.

LeafGm
07-30-2014, 09:49 AM
I've been pretty confident all along that the Habs would re-sign PK long-term for big money too, but I'm kind of starting to wonder what's taking so long, and why they're going so far down the road towards that arbitration hearing, and what's with the low-ball arbitration offer.

When Kessel told Nonis that he wanted to be here long term, I don't think it took any more than a couple of days for them to get the deal together. If the Habs are willing to offer PK a max-length deal at 8 or 9 million dollars per season, you'd think the deal would have come together just as quick for them.

Pronger84
07-30-2014, 09:50 AM
Subban has a history of being a diva though, he held out for a bit during his last negotations with them... makes sense he's acting worse this time around.

LeafGm
07-30-2014, 09:51 AM
Subban has a history of being a diva though, he held out for a bit during his last negotations with them... makes sense he's acting worse this time around.
Would you say that he's being uppity?

Pronger84
07-30-2014, 09:51 AM
Would you say that he's being uppity?

No just being difficult... that being said I think he resigns there long term eventually.

hockeylover
07-30-2014, 09:53 AM
Subban has a history of being a diva though, he held out for a bit during his last negotations with them... makes sense he's acting worse this time around.

How's he acting like a diva here? His demands are perfectly reasonable. Even his arbitration ask, where you'd expect he'd go high, is very reasonable.

Pronger84
07-30-2014, 09:57 AM
How's he acting like a diva here? His demands are perfectly reasonable. Even his arbitration ask, where you'd expect he'd go high, is very reasonable.

How is he acting like a diva? Last time he held out into the first portion of the 12/13 season over contract disputes, this time he's taking them to arbitration over what he think's he's worth. I think he's worth more then the $5.25M the Habs are offering him but I also don't think he's worth the amount he's asking for either.... I think he falls somewhere in the middle (6.8-7.2M) range for his next contract.

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 09:58 AM
I think he falls somewhere in the middle (6.8-7.2M) range for his next contract.

You know he's won a Norris trophy, right? Non norris trophy winning defenders are signing contracts in that range. There's no reason he shouldn't expect more.

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 09:59 AM
The Hockey News ‏@TheHockeyNews 12m
According to @THNKenCampbell, P.K. Subban seeking $8.5 million in arbitration. Habs submitted an offer of $5.25 million on a one-year deal.

Wow, lowball or what.



Again.

LeafGm
07-30-2014, 09:59 AM
How's he acting like a diva here? His demands are perfectly reasonable. Even his arbitration ask, where you'd expect he'd go high, is very reasonable.
He wasn't a "diva" during his last contract negotiation either. The Habs low-balled the shit out of him back then too, and Subban thought he was worth more.

Turns out that Subban was right, and the Habs would be much better off today (and for the next couple of years) if they'd given PK the deal he wanted back then.

hockeylover
07-30-2014, 10:01 AM
How is he acting like a diva? Last time he held out into the first portion of the 12/13 season over contract disputes, this time he's taking them to arbitration over what he think's he's worth. I think he's worth more then the $5.25M the Habs are offering him but I also don't think he's worth the amount he's asking for either.... I think he falls somewhere in the middle (6.8-7.2M) range for his next contract.

This is just silly.

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 10:01 AM
Don't get teams that try to penny pinch their best players. The Hawks do it the right way.

I've never understood it either. You're going to squeeze Subban so that you can turn around and throw money at the Briere's of the world?

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 10:02 AM
He wasn't a "diva" during his last contract negotiation either. The Habs low-balled the shit out of him back then too, and Subban thought he was worth more.

Turns out that Subban was right, and the Habs would be much better off today (and for the next couple of years) if they'd given PK the deal he wanted back then.


Like a bunch of us said at the time. There was a rumour of a 5x5 deal on the table from the Subban camp, Montreal would have made out like ****ing bandits had they just nodded and smiled.

Artnes
07-30-2014, 10:37 AM
Its refreshing to watch someone elses management screw things up for a change.

Keep pissing him off so he walks in two years

Volcanologist
07-30-2014, 10:59 AM
Speaking of which...

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/07/29/20-questions-montreal-canadiens-p-k-subban-on-playing-in-toronto-and-don-cherrys-antics/


4. Staying on the basketball theme: With LeBron James returning to Cleveland this summer, have you ever considered going home to play in Toronto?
PK: Um, I’d be wrong to say that I haven’t thought about it. But one thing’s for sure: Montreal’s a great place to play. The start to a tremendous career — hopefully — has been great in Montreal, when you think that we’ve put together a team that’s been in the playoffs in three out of four years. I’ve been a big part of it. I’ve had individual success as well as team success. You look at last year, what we accomplished. And really, just setting the stage for a legacy there that, possibly, some players will never have in any organization. So I look at that first. But definitely, to think that, at some point, you may have the opportunity to play in your hometown? Yeah, it’s unique. But I’m not in a position to elaborate any more on that. All I can say is that I’ve heard a lot about it, I’ve thought about it — but I’m very happy where I am right now, and they’ve treated me so well.”

worm
07-30-2014, 11:02 AM
How's he acting like a diva here? His demands are perfectly reasonable. Even his arbitration ask, where you'd expect he'd go high, is very reasonable.

Assuming these numbers are correct (looks like they were not with Eller) I am very happy Subban's ask is so low.

worm
07-30-2014, 11:03 AM
Its refreshing to watch someone elses management screw things up for a change.

Keep pissing him off so he walks in two years

lol

CTheBigPicture
07-30-2014, 11:10 AM
Speaking of which...

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/07/29/20-questions-montreal-canadiens-p-k-subban-on-playing-in-toronto-and-don-cherrys-antics/
Eeeenteresting

LeafGm
07-30-2014, 11:13 AM
Speaking of which...

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/07/29/20-questions-montreal-canadiens-p-k-subban-on-playing-in-toronto-and-don-cherrys-antics/
Heh. I saw that article yesterday, and was tempted to post it here. There's another section in the article where he talks about how Doug Gilmour was his favourite player, and how he had a Doug Gilmour Leaf jersey as a kid.

Funny, because I was under the impression (I'm not sure from where) that Subban was a Habs fan growing up. I guess that isn't actually the case.

worm
07-30-2014, 11:18 AM
His dad was a habs fan.

Artnes
07-30-2014, 11:21 AM
From his bio on his website


Growing up in a french speaking neighbourhood, Karl quickly became a fan of the Montreal Canadians,a passion he would pass down to his first born child PK.

LeafGm
07-30-2014, 11:24 AM
So, he was a Habs fan, but he had a Leaf jersey and his favourite player was Doug Gilmour?

Does not compute.

Pucklosopher
07-30-2014, 11:39 AM
Maybe the Habs organization feels the need to keep Subban in his place, keep his confidence and ego in check, because he's not the typical hockey player. Because he's "uppity". Not unlike the way the Leafs treat Kadri.

I don't think Subban needs it, though. The guy seems like an awesome teammate.

worm
07-30-2014, 11:44 AM
So, he was a Habs fan, but he had a Leaf jersey and his favourite player was Doug Gilmour?

Does not compute.

My favourite player was Mario...and I wore whatever my parents could find in the discount bin.....an oilers jersey.

leafman101
07-30-2014, 11:53 AM
I was a Leafs fan but my favourite player was Bure and I had his jersey.

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 12:01 PM
My favourite player was Mario...and I wore whatever my parents could find in the discount bin.....an oilers jersey.

This explains a lot

http://www.notablebiographies.com/images/uewb_04_img0280.jpg

....go on

Habspatrol
07-30-2014, 01:54 PM
Maybe the Habs organization feels the need to keep Subban in his place, keep his confidence and ego in check, because he's not the typical hockey player. Because he's "uppity". Not unlike the way the Leafs treat Kadri.

I don't think Subban needs it, though. The guy seems like an awesome teammate.

I hope this isn't the case... but it does scare me that it could be.

And I agree about him seeming like an awesome teammate. Not sure how you couldn't love a guy who brings that much energy every night. That said, I think the fact that he's so exuberant and he's "always on" can get under some peoples skin.

Habspatrol
07-30-2014, 01:56 PM
I never wore another jersey... and I'm pretty sure my dad would've kicked my ass if I'd ever even considered it.

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 02:14 PM
Never owned or worn a NHL jersey that didn't have either a white, red, or blue maple leaf on the front of it.

Rumpleforeskin
07-30-2014, 02:46 PM
Never owned or worn a NHL jersey that didn't have either a white, red, or blue maple leaf on the front of it.

Couldn't ever see myself wearing a habs or sens jersey, but I have a Kariya ducks, and a Scott Stevens caps jersey

UWHabs
07-30-2014, 02:56 PM
Jerseys are too expensive to have that many of (for me), but if I did, I think I would stick with Habs players. I've "liked" other players, especially guys on my fantasy teams that were stars for many years, but I doubt I would ever wear their gear.

Montana
07-30-2014, 02:59 PM
Only NHL jersey's I've owned/worn in my life....

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5ohr2BR1C1qe1x8qo1_400.jpg


http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-662526-dave-andreychuk-toronto-maple-leafs-autographed-hand-signed-retro-ccm-1990s-hoc-fg-aj-andd104000.jpg


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDYwMA==/z/MMEAAOSw-dBTvMDi/$_35.JPG


http://www.iceedgemart.com/images/Toronto%20Maple%20Leafs%20Jersey/Phil%20Kessel%20Jersey/Reebok-EDGE-Toronto-Maple-Leafs-81-Phil-Kessel-Blue-Authentic-Jersey.jpg

number17
07-30-2014, 02:59 PM
The first non-Leaf jersey I had in my closet was Ovechkin's ... it remains the only non-Leaf (and non- Canada) jersey I have in my closet.

And I got it at a really good deal too ... $45 ... can't beat that.

As for Subbaan ... is it just me or do I find him pretty annoying and ultra-cocky just from reading his interview?! I dunno man ... I can easily see how he'd rub some teammates off the wrong way.

Montana
07-30-2014, 03:04 PM
I find him pretty annoying and ultra-cocky



Sounds like you find him uppity.

Artnes
07-30-2014, 03:11 PM
I could deal with his ego off the ice as long as he contributes on it.

You learn to live with it if he helps you win

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 03:17 PM
Wife beaters, douche bags, alcoholics, liars, etc have all been important parts of winning teams.

But, most of them were white.

Kritter
07-30-2014, 03:52 PM
Wife beaters, douche bags, alcoholics, liars, etc have all been important parts of winning teams.

But, most of them were white.


Subban doesnt sound any different than any hockey player that has just won an olympic gold medal, played in the conference championship and was his teams best player, and is set for a major payday.


And hell ya to him maybe being a Leaf in a few years..

Subban/Reilly #1 PP unit. Yikes.

Pucklosopher
07-30-2014, 03:56 PM
Yeah, I don't think Subban necessarily has a bigger ego that a lot of these other athletes around him. He's just more uppity about it.

BG
07-30-2014, 04:07 PM
You better get used to PK's smile, because he'll be a hockey celebrity for many years after his playing career. The guy's got incredible charisma.

LeafOfFaith
07-30-2014, 04:13 PM
Gotta love the hatred that must be bubbling up in Subban for the Habs.

There's no way that relationship is destined to last long term.

Funny how they don't want to just sign him to an 8 by $8M as soon as possible...

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 04:20 PM
Yeah, I don't think Subban necessarily has a bigger ego that a lot of these other athletes around him. He's just more uppity about it.


Him and Evander Kane.

The nerve of "those" people, right?

LeafGm
07-30-2014, 04:29 PM
Him and Evander Kane.

The nerve of "those" people, right?
Yep. That boy in Winnipeg and that boy in Montreal need to show some more gawdderned respect, consarnit!

UWHabs
07-30-2014, 04:32 PM
You better get used to PK's smile, because he'll be a hockey celebrity for many years after his playing career. The guy's got incredible charisma.

I already see him all the time doing spots on Sportsnet in the off-season. He'll definitely become a talking head when he's done playing.

CH1
07-30-2014, 04:37 PM
His newfound love for the Leafs is perfectly timed ---mid negotiation and him being the cover boy for Rogers hockey advertising campaign.

worm
07-30-2014, 04:40 PM
I already see him all the time doing spots on Sportsnet in the off-season. He'll definitely become a talking head when he's done playing.

Arnt those jobs usually reserved for those that are not smart enough to get a job in coaching/mgmt ?

CH1
07-30-2014, 04:40 PM
PK is aiming to be an owner.

Artnes
07-30-2014, 04:42 PM
Stamkos got to him

worm
07-30-2014, 04:43 PM
Just need a third to become the Toronto Heat. ...maybe Rask?

Habspatrol
07-30-2014, 04:44 PM
The first non-Leaf jersey I had in my closet was Ovechkin's ... it remains the only non-Leaf (and non- Canada) jersey I have in my closet.

And I got it at a really good deal too ... $45 ... can't beat that.

As for Subbaan ... is it just me or do I find him pretty annoying and ultra-cocky just from reading his interview?! I dunno man ... I can easily see how he'd rub some teammates off the wrong way.

I'm not singling you out cause I've seen other detractors say this but cocky is the one thing I don't see. The guy seems only too humble in every interview. It's always "so and so played great" or "the team did this." Even when asked about himself he deflects.

On the ice he plays on the "edge" and tries to get under the other team's skin... but I don't think he's cocky. He is extremely confident though. The guy wants the puck and he wants to make big plays.

Artnes
07-30-2014, 04:46 PM
Just need a third to become the Toronto Heat. ...maybe Rask?

JT

worm
07-30-2014, 04:48 PM
I'm not singling you out cause I've seen other detractors say this but cocky is the one thing I don't see. The guy seems only too humble in every interview. It's always "so and so played great" or "the team did this." Even when asked about himself he deflects.

On the ice he plays on the "edge" and tries to get under the other team's skin... but I don't think he's cocky. He is extremely confident though. The guy wants the puck and he wants to make big plays.

What is the difference between cocky and extremely confident?

Habspatrol
07-30-2014, 04:48 PM
Gotta love the hatred that must be bubbling up in Subban for the Habs.

There's no way that relationship is destined to last long term.

Funny how they don't want to just sign him to an 8 by $8M as soon as possible...

We'll know in a day or two how accurate this is.

Truth is, right now we don't know what the dialogue between the two sides has been. It's likely been pretty standard stuff so far.... and I suspect we'll see an 8 year $8m+ deal signed within the next 40ish hours and all will be good.

If he signs anything less than 4 years or god forbid they go to arbitration I'll lose my shit.

worm
07-30-2014, 04:48 PM
JT

Subban = Wade
Stamkos = Lebron
Clarkson = Bosh

:p

MindzEye
07-30-2014, 04:53 PM
What is the difference between cocky and extremely confident?

Skin colour