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Wayward DP
10-05-2014, 05:01 PM
Keith Aulie was cut by the Oilers... ouch.

CTheBigPicture
10-05-2014, 06:40 PM
Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26SXNCe93TI

Edit* Sorry, I dunno why I can't post videos properly. I'm at work.
WOW

worm
10-06-2014, 11:20 AM
looks like Draisatl made the Oilers.

pretty easy when boyd gordon is your second best centre

Metalleaf
10-06-2014, 11:25 AM
Oil Can Boyd Gordon

LeafGm
10-06-2014, 11:32 AM
Keith Aulie was cut by the Oilers... ouch.
RIP to the NHL careers of Aulie & Schenn, the Leafs' former two big farm-boy stay-at-home defensemen of the future.

worm
10-06-2014, 11:51 AM
WOW

Meh. I remember every goal I ever scored.....

Deckie007
10-06-2014, 12:11 PM
Both of them?

MyNameIsJonas
10-06-2014, 12:12 PM
Trevor Van Riemsdyk cracks Blackhawks.

worm
10-06-2014, 12:44 PM
Both of them?



Both were glorious.

Metalleaf
10-06-2014, 12:52 PM
Both were glorious.

Off the shin pad and in? I had a few like that.

worm
10-06-2014, 12:57 PM
Off the shin pad and in? I had a few like that.

One from centre. The other was a rebound that I wildly stabbed at.

Metalleaf
10-06-2014, 01:00 PM
I only ever had 5 goals, one was from the point that bounced in off skates and couple off of deflections...but I was more about winning Championships, 3 in 3 years...I'm kind of like Kypreos.

worm
10-06-2014, 01:03 PM
I only ever had 5 goals, one was from the point that bounced in off skates and couple off of deflections...but I was more about winning Championships, 3 in 3 years...I'm kind of like Kypreos.

Nice.


And apparently Budaj is on waivers. Maybe the Jets are trying to get a real goalie.

Metalleaf
10-06-2014, 01:05 PM
Budaj even deleted the tweet about him being "excited for the opportunity in Winnipeg"

worm
10-06-2014, 01:08 PM
Budaj even deleted the tweet about him being "excited for the opportunity in Winnipeg"

Where does the farm team play? Probably better than Winnipeg anyway....right HP?

Metalleaf
10-06-2014, 01:12 PM
St.John's, thought they were moving but they are still playing this year in Newfoundland.

CTheBigPicture
10-06-2014, 02:08 PM
Meh. I remember every goal I ever scored.....
That's nothing. I remember every second I've spent on skates on a sheet of ice (total of 15 minutes, spent most of it sitting on the ice).

WellPlayed
10-07-2014, 08:43 PM
Jonas (or anyone who follows the West more closely than I do), need some pool help. What line is Saad expected to play on and how many points would you predict?

MyNameIsJonas
10-07-2014, 08:48 PM
Jonas (or anyone who follows the West more closely than I do), need some pool help. What line is Saad expected to play on and how many points would you predict?

Saad Shaw Kane
Hossa Toews Sharp
Bickell Richards Versteeg ( injured)

I assume Morin enters the top 9 and that's how they start the year, but Q loves to mix and match.

Hoss
10-07-2014, 08:59 PM
sweet I picked up Hossa late in one of my pools.

Wayward DP
10-07-2014, 09:19 PM
Yeah I just nabbed Hossa and Saad. Think Saad could really break out this year.

Metalleaf
10-30-2014, 11:42 PM
Vanek implicated in Money Laundering Scheme....

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/617849

runninglow
10-31-2014, 09:52 AM
So much for the NHL's squeaky clean image...2 accusations of domestic abuse, now money laundering. Only good news is this is still small-time compared to the NFL.

Leafin'
10-31-2014, 02:04 PM
So a little bit of humor to start our afternoon:


On the Leafs...

A source VERY familiar with the situation has informed me the Maple Leafs are "stepping up their efforts to add a substantial asset....one of the names which keeps coming up is Joe Thornton. Thornton would have to be convinced to go to Toronto, but Brendan Shanahan can be quite convincing, and playing with Phil Kessel, Joe could seriously pile up the points.

The Sharks are interested in Jake Gardiner plus....

Another deal I have heard mentioned more than a few times over the last week or so is the Maple Leafs interest in Antoine Vermette and Keith Yandle. A package could be worked out but the Coyotes would like Nazem Kadri back for both players and a pick. (e3)

LeafGm
10-31-2014, 02:33 PM
I take it from the "e3" that those are some fresh hallucinations that "Eklund" has gleaned from huffing gasoline in his mother's basement?

MyNameIsJonas
10-31-2014, 02:38 PM
He doesn't even make attempts to have these e3's work under the cap.

Leafin'
10-31-2014, 02:40 PM
I take it from the "e3" that those are some fresh hallucinations that "Eklund" has gleaned from huffing gasoline in his mother's basement?

HAHAHA.

To be fair, i got it from Hfboards. I don't understand how this guy gets hits on his site.

CTheBigPicture
10-31-2014, 03:38 PM
Can't believe Eklund has made a career out of this

rated
10-31-2014, 05:27 PM
HAHAHA.

To be fair, i got it from Hfboards. I don't understand how this guy gets hits on his site.

Because people like you keep posting his rumors ?

Leafin'
10-31-2014, 06:03 PM
Because people like you keep posting his rumors ?

Maybe you missed where i said "So a little bit of humor to start our afternoon".

Take it easy.

rated
10-31-2014, 06:05 PM
lol I don't care you posted it. Maybe I was just taking your post a little too serious

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-12-2014, 04:14 PM
Toronto Sun ‏@TheTorontoSun 6m6 minutes ago
NHL reportedly picks billionaire businessman William Foley, Maloof family as owners of potential Vegas team. http://bit.ly/14eEm1A

JackBurton
11-12-2014, 05:29 PM
A Vegas team is such a stupid ****ing idea. It screams 90's Betteman expansion.

There's a reason no other major sports have gone there.

leafman101
11-12-2014, 05:53 PM
There's a reason no other major sports have gone there.

Gambling. There is a pretty big market there, with a lot of money, that no professional sports team is capitalizing on.

But just look at boxing and ufc. Its a good sports market.

LeafGm
11-12-2014, 09:20 PM
Gambling. There is a pretty big market there, with a lot of money, that no professional sports team is capitalizing on.

But just look at boxing and ufc. Its a good sports market.
Good attendance for big one-off events that attract a lot of out-of-towners is a lot different than selling 17,500 tickets to a regular season NHL hockey game 41 times, 7 months out of every year. I'm not convinced there will be enough interest, from the visiting tourists to Las Vegas residents.

But it certainly's looking like we'll get to find out whether or not it'll work. I just hope we don't lose anything too valuable in the expansion draft.

BeLeafer
11-12-2014, 09:44 PM
Dough McLean thinks it's a great idea. That's all you need to know.

MindzEye
11-12-2014, 11:26 PM
Just on support from the gaming community (aka, casinos giving away comp tickets) there will be a stronger seasons ticket base than any of the other sun belt teams. It's a city built on entertainment, that would have something else to entertain people with, the economic argument makes itself.

Metalleaf
11-12-2014, 11:27 PM
Slots on an NHL concourse....think about the frigging revenue.

CTheBigPicture
11-13-2014, 10:33 AM
I love hockey, but there is no way I travel to Vegas to watch a hockey game! There is too much else to do. I have hockey in my own backyard too.

CTheBigPicture
11-13-2014, 10:34 AM
Just on support from the gaming community (aka, casinos giving away comp tickets) there will be a stronger seasons ticket base than any of the other sun belt teams. It's a city built on entertainment, that would have something else to entertain people with, the economic argument makes itself.

What happens when it's a relative success at first, then the NBA and the NFL notice it and make their move there. NHL will be looking at another team to relocate.

BG
11-13-2014, 10:38 AM
Slots on an NHL concourse....think about the frigging revenue.

...oh, slots. Sorry.

Deckie007
11-13-2014, 10:45 AM
Terminals at your seat to make on the fly prop bets.

JackBurton
11-13-2014, 11:10 AM
Dough McLean thinks it's a great idea. That's all you need to know.

I still laugh that he agreed to be Balsillie's GM in Hamilton.

JackBurton
11-13-2014, 11:11 AM
I love hockey, but there is no way I travel to Vegas to watch a hockey game! There is too much else to do. I have hockey in my own backyard too.

And that's the problem. Ridiculous entertainment competition and the city is full of transplants. Not going to work.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 11:31 AM
What happens when it's a relative success at first, then the NBA and the NFL notice it and make their move there. NHL will be looking at another team to relocate.

The NFL has much bigger plans on the go right now when it comes to expansion. Los Angeles, Toronto, Mexico City, London are all way higher on their priority list than doing any sort of infill like Las Vegas.

The NBA could be a viable candidate in Vegas, but they also have bigger plans in the work than worrying about infill. They're looking at Europe, they're looking at Vancouver.

I think you're really missing how big corporate support for a club in a non traditional market is. If the casinos get behind something like this, just the amount of paid for tickets from them would be a bigger corporate season ticket base than anything in the rest of the sun/bible belt.

Think about it for a second. It's a Metropolitan area of 2 million, that gets somewhere in between 35-40 million tourists per year, and you would be the only professional sports game in town for at least 5 years. If you can get a foot in the door, and build quality relationships with the gaming community, it very quickly becomes a very strong revenue earner.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 11:41 AM
I love hockey, but there is no way I travel to Vegas to watch a hockey game! There is too much else to do. I have hockey in my own backyard too.

Why wouldn't you take in a game while in Vegas? You would rather be comped Celine Dion tickets?

I wouldn't plan a Vegas trip around going to a game there (other than a Leaf game of course), but I would absolutely go if I was in town. So would a ****ton of Canadian tourists. I'd actually be surprised if travelling NHL fans didn't make it a major part of their schedule. It's a 2 hr flight from Calgary/Vancouver. 2.5 hours from Edmonton, 3 from Winnipeg. It's cheap.

About 2 million canadian tourists hit Vegas each year....you're telling me that a big pile of them wouldn't 1) Start planning their trips around when their team is in town & 2) take in a NHL game anyway, whether their team is in town or not?

Shit, monstrous attendance in the NHL is 800K. Even a shitty market does 400K...you really think Vegas can't be a shitty stand alone market that gets topped up by 200K+ Canadian tourists?

leafman101
11-13-2014, 11:44 AM
I don't see why Vegas isn't big enough for more than one professional sports team anyway. Entertainment is the currency there. Its the perfect place for selling any entertainment product. If Celene Dion, and faggy magicians can sell out shows every night, why wouldn't hockey work? I highly doubt anyone here is going to say that hockey isn't way better entertainment value that most of the shows already there.

the big issue for sports there has been the appearance of impropriety from gambling. The potential market there is strong enough to get the NHL to overlook that.

It is for sure the biggest market, with the most money and most potential of anywhere the NHL would be looking to expand in the West.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 11:50 AM
Mindz has pretty much nailed my thoughts on the Vegas team.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 11:52 AM
Why wouldn't you take in a game while in Vegas? You would rather be comped Celine Dion tickets?

I wouldn't plan a Vegas trip around going to a game there (other than a Leaf game of course), but I would absolutely go if I was in town. So would a ****ton of Canadian tourists. I'd actually be surprised if travelling NHL fans didn't make it a major part of their schedule. It's a 2 hr flight from Calgary/Vancouver. 2.5 hours from Edmonton, 3 from Winnipeg. It's cheap.

About 2 million canadian tourists hit Vegas each year....you're telling me that a big pile of them wouldn't 1) Start planning their trips around when their team is in town & 2) take in a NHL game anyway, whether their team is in town or not?

Shit, monstrous attendance in the NHL is 800K. Even a shitty market does 400K...you really think Vegas can't be a shitty stand alone market that gets topped up by 200K+ Canadian tourists?

I agree. I'm not guaranteeing that Vegas would be work but there's a lot of potential for it to work.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 11:53 AM
Mindz has pretty much nailed my thoughts on the Vegas team.
One thing I forgot to add.....foreigners getting comped tickets is free international advertising for the growth of the game.

Deckie007
11-13-2014, 11:58 AM
Mindz has pretty much nailed my thoughts on the Vegas team.

Goddammit, he's right again.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 12:00 PM
And a Bunny Ranch kiosk.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 12:00 PM
Is the arena they are planning to use the one MGM and AEG recently broke ground on?

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 12:03 PM
Is the arena they are planning to use the one MGM and AEG recently broke ground on?

It would be the natural choice. It's being designed with hockey in mind and configured for 17,500 for hockey.

I had forgotten than MGM was involved in it....There's your support from the Casino community.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 12:05 PM
It's apparently west of New York New York...so not far from the strip....imagine a cup parade in Vegas....

LeafGm
11-13-2014, 12:08 PM
Mindz has pretty much nailed my thoughts on the Vegas team.
I still don't buy it. It still seems to me that the biggest reason people go to Vegas is the novelty of it, and the ability to experience a lot of shows and entertainment that you just wouldn't be able to get in your home city. I just don't see the novelty for a Las Vegas crowd in a February game between the Las Vegas Thunder and the Florida Panthers.

All the examples he's listing (Canadian fans coming down for the seven to eleven games a year a Canadian team will be visiting, casinos buying up comp tickets to give away) would no doubt put some butts in the seats, but I don't see any of that, plus whatever support they can muster from Las Vegas residents, being able to sell and fill anywhere close to 17,500 seats for 41 nights between October and April every year.

leafman101
11-13-2014, 12:13 PM
Over 2 million people live in the metro Vegas area. They don't need to rely on tourists. They just also happen to have an additional million people in the city at any given time thanks to tourism.

LeafGm
11-13-2014, 12:15 PM
Yeah, I'm sure a large percentage of those 2 million people are rabid hockey fans, too.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 12:17 PM
Yeah, I'm sure a large percentage of those 2 million people are rabid hockey fans, too.

How large of a percentage do you need? And that's the job of ownership/management/NHL. They have to try to turn a percentage of them into hockey fans.

leafman101
11-13-2014, 12:19 PM
They are people like you and I, who spend money on entertainment.

Hockey is pretty entertaining if you ask me.

How many NHL cities populations spend as much money on entertainment as Vegas.

Volcanologist
11-13-2014, 12:23 PM
Buffalo is -39...after 17 games.

the next worst is -17.

number17
11-13-2014, 12:35 PM
They are people like you and I, who spend money on entertainment.

Hockey is pretty entertaining if you ask me.

How many NHL cities populations spend as much money on entertainment as Vegas.THe only flaw to that logic, imho, is to develop your love for a team, and your start to follow a team, after a period of time.

Most of the people who spend the big bucks on entertainment in Vegas are NOT the locals. It's the tourists.

For the same reason you are very unlikely to buy tickets to watch a local team's pro sports game when you go visit Paris, or London, or Beijing, or San Diego ... you can't expect the tourists to be the bulk of your gate attendance for Vegas.

When I visited Washington recently, going to the Caps game over my 4 days trip never crossed my mind - and this is for a game that I LOVE!

If it's the NY Yankees or the Boston Bruins or Manchester United it's another story ... these are storied franchises. Las Vegas Panthers (or whatever it is), is not.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 12:52 PM
When I went to New York last Christmas my first thought was...I have to see a Rangers game at Madison Square Garden...different strokes I guess.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 12:58 PM
People will plan trips to Vegas around when their team plays the Vegas team and I think there is enough community support for a team in Vegas.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 12:59 PM
THe only flaw to that logic, imho, is to develop your love for a team, and your start to follow a team, after a period of time.

Most of the people who spend the big bucks on entertainment in Vegas are NOT the locals. It's the tourists.

For the same reason you are very unlikely to buy tickets to watch a local team's pro sports game when you go visit Paris, or London, or Beijing, or San Diego ... you can't expect the tourists to be the bulk of your gate attendance for Vegas.

When I visited Washington recently, going to the Caps game over my 4 days trip never crossed my mind - and this is for a game that I LOVE!

If it's the NY Yankees or the Boston Bruins or Manchester United it's another story ... these are storied franchises. Las Vegas Panthers (or whatever it is), is not.

I look at Vegas as Florida or Phoenix except they have an additional market to target with the tourists and casino comps. They can build a fan base but they should also be able to supplement that with maybe a couple thousand addition customers.

leafman101
11-13-2014, 01:01 PM
I really disagree that its all dependent on tourism. It just so happens that there are a **** load of tourists in Vegas all the time. From everywhere. Including all the North American cities that do have NHL teams that would be playing against the Las Vegas Panthers on any given night.

Vegas has over 2.2 million residents though. Its a bigger market than a lot of NHL markets already. It is a comparable market to places like Vancouver, Denver, St. Louis and Pittsburgh and is bigger than San Jose, Columbus, Nashville, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, Raliegh. Its an averaged sized NHL market. And it includes people who love sports. UNLV basketball was 22nd in the NCAA in attendance last season.

Its not as big of a market as Seattle, but that is next on the list anyway.

worm
11-13-2014, 01:08 PM
Buffalo is -39...after 17 games.

the next worst is -17.

And their best player just broke his hand in a fight...

number17
11-13-2014, 01:15 PM
Yeah NYR is a totally different story ... I also wanted to go watch a Red Sox game when I went to Boston, but these are storied franchises. LV does not fall into that category.

Think about how bored you have to be to go watch a Panthers game when you go visit Florida? Or a Bolts game in Tampa?

number17
11-13-2014, 01:18 PM
I really disagree that its all dependent on tourism. It just so happens that there are a **** load of tourists in Vegas all the time. From everywhere. Including all the North American cities that do have NHL teams that would be playing against the Las Vegas Panthers on any given night.

Vegas has over 2.2 million residents though. Its a bigger market than a lot of NHL markets already. It is a comparable market to places like Vancouver, Denver, St. Louis and Pittsburgh and is bigger than San Jose, Columbus, Nashville, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, Raliegh. Its an averaged sized NHL market. And it includes people who love sports. UNLV basketball was 22nd in the NCAA in attendance last season.

Its not as big of a market as Seattle, but that is next on the list anyway.Majority of Las Vegas's local resident work in the, surprise surprise, hotel & services business, and don't work on the regular working hours that allow them to attend a game after 5 or 6pm. It also doesn't help LV has close to no corporate support for pro sports teams.

There is a reason why a city with 2.2M local residents has no pro sports team of any kind ... and the last 'team' they had was XFL ... lol

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 01:18 PM
Stamkos is boring?

leafman101
11-13-2014, 01:21 PM
There is a reason why a city with 2.2M local residents has no pro sports team of any kind ... and the last 'team' they had was XFL ... lol

Yeah gambling.

There is a ton of corporate money there. They all own casinos. I don't think corporate sponsorship in Vegas has ever been a problem for UFC or boxing, or anything. its the fight capital of the world. There is a long track record of success in pro sports in Vegas.

Pro sports leagues have been turned off by the legal gambling. Whereas sports that have embraced that culture have flourished there.

number17
11-13-2014, 01:27 PM
Stamkos is boring?Lol ... you need some comprehension exercises my bro ... :)

I said you have to be bored to go watch the Bolts play during your Florida trip. Last time I went to Florida (Orlando) it was all about theme parks, beaches, outlet mall ... hockey game was the last thing that crossed my mind. I didn't say Stamkos is boring.

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 01:29 PM
Lol ... you need some comprehension exercises my bro ... :)

I said you have to be bored to go watch the Bolts play during your Florida trip. Last time I went to Florida (Orlando) it was all about theme parks, beaches, outlet mall ... hockey game was the last thing that crossed my mind. I didn't say Stamkos is boring.

All of my friends have been to Florida on a road trip multiple times with the main purpose of watching hockey - they see both Florida/Tampa play the Leafs. They'd probably do Vegas instead if there was the option.

number17
11-13-2014, 01:29 PM
Yeah gambling.

There is a ton of corporate money there. They all own casinos. I don't think corporate sponsorship in Vegas has ever been a problem for UFC or boxing, or anything. its the fight capital of the world. There is a long track record of success in pro sports in Vegas.

Pro sports leagues have been turned off by the legal gambling. Whereas sports that have embraced that culture have flourished there.Fighting, yes. Not team sports.

If no "American" pro sports team even dared to expand to LV, what makes you think a rather 'foreign' sports would have success??

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 01:30 PM
My reading comprehension is fine, sunshine. When you call the Bolts boring, you are in fact inferring that Stamkos as related to the Bolts, is also boring.

LeafGm
11-13-2014, 01:31 PM
Yeah NYR is a totally different story ... I also wanted to go watch a Red Sox game when I went to Boston, but these are storied franchises. LV does not fall into that category.

Think about how bored you have to be to go watch a Panthers game when you go visit Florida? Or a Bolts game in Tampa?
Not to mention MSG's one of the most famous venues in the world, with a storied history of its own.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 01:31 PM
Fighting, yes. Not team sports.

If no "American" pro sports team even dared to expand to LV, what makes you think a rather 'foreign' sports would have success??

You can't put a city in the middle of the desert, can't be done...oh wait!!

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 01:31 PM
Fighting, yes. Not team sports.

If no "American" pro sports team even dared to expand to LV, what makes you think a rather 'foreign' sports would have success??

I'm pretty sure he told you his answer - gambling.

LeafGm
11-13-2014, 01:32 PM
You can't put a city in the middle of the desert, can't be done...oh wait!!
...and that other team in the desert's been a smashing success, hasn't it?

leafman101
11-13-2014, 01:32 PM
Fighting, yes. Not team sports.

If no "American" pro sports team even dared to expand to LV, what makes you think a rather 'foreign' sports would have success??

What is the difference between individual and team sports?

Both are sporting events people pay money to go see for entertainment.

And even if you could make the argument that "no one has tried it before" since when is that a good argument not to try something?

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 01:33 PM
If you don't think the CEO of Fidelity and the Maloof Bros. would have corporate support for their bid, you don't understand business very well.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 01:35 PM
...and that other team in the desert's been a smashing success, hasn't it?

Las Vegas is a completely different kettle of fish compared to Phoenix/Glendale/Arizona. Especially when most of the incoming residents are from California where hockey has been a success.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 01:50 PM
I still don't buy it. It still seems to me that the biggest reason people go to Vegas is the novelty of it, and the ability to experience a lot of shows and entertainment that you just wouldn't be able to get in your home city. I just don't see the novelty for a Las Vegas crowd in a February game between the Las Vegas Thunder and the Florida Panthers.

That game would be the outlier though. Anything can be made to look bad with an extreme example. Fact of the matter is though, the vast majority of their home games will be played against major market western conference teams, or Canadian teams.


All the examples he's listing (Canadian fans coming down for the seven to eleven games a year a Canadian team will be visiting, casinos buying up comp tickets to give away) would no doubt put some butts in the seats, but I don't see any of that, plus whatever support they can muster from Las Vegas residents, being able to sell and fill anywhere close to 17,500 seats for 41 nights between October and April every year.

Why not? The Coyotes draw 13,700 playing in ****ing Glendale (which is the geographic equivalent of the Leafs playing in Oshawa). This would be a hockey team on the strip. Is there a team that plays in a downtown arena that is struggling, anywhere in the league?

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 01:54 PM
The ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers averaged 4500 people, don't why you couldn't get another 10,000 for 41 games a year.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 02:01 PM
I look at Vegas as Florida or Phoenix except they have an additional market to target with the tourists and casino comps. They can build a fan base but they should also be able to supplement that with maybe a couple thousand addition customers.

Ignoring for a second that Miami is well known as a shitty sports town....Sunrise florida, and more specifically, the arena that the Panthers play in...is about a 1 hr drive from Miami (with rush hour traffic conditions). Glendale Arizona, the home of the Coyotes, is likewise about 1 hr from the Phoenix downtown area.

A Las Vegas team would be right on the strip.

There's simply no comparing the 3 situations based on that alone. Arena location is a massive issue for a non traditional hockey market.


Carolina? PNC arena is like 5km away from downtown Raleigh, right in between 3 major highway arteries. The Preds play right in downtown Nashville. The lightning play right in Tampa, beside a major highway.

If you don't build your arena in an easily accessible location, you're going to have a hard time drawing bodies to the game. We rip on Ottawa fans for their dodgy attendance (By Canadian standards), but the root of that issue is the same. Instead of building in the downtown core, it was out in the ****ing boonies. That negatively effects attendance.

Shit, if you put the Leafs in Barrie, attendance would be effected. Same with the Flames, put them in Lethbridge and see how good the attendance is. Downtown arenas are massive.

Vegas would be right on the strip, the heaviest trafficked area in the city by a wide, wide margin.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 02:03 PM
The ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers averaged 4500 people, don't why you couldn't get another 10,000 for 41 games a year.

#rekt

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 02:03 PM
The ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers averaged 4500 people, don't why you couldn't get another 10,000 for 41 games a year.

#rekt

Deckie007
11-13-2014, 02:05 PM
double post

#rekt

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 02:08 PM
It was worth repeating.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 02:11 PM
FWIW, Wranglers played out of Orleans Hotel & Casino, but couldn't find tenancy in time for the 14-15 season, so voluntarily suspended operations until they can find a new venue...maybe they can test out that new arena once its built.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 02:14 PM
Ignoring for a second that Miami is well known as a shitty sports town....Sunrise florida, and more specifically, the arena that the Panthers play in...is about a 1 hr drive from Miami (with rush hour traffic conditions). Glendale Arizona, the home of the Coyotes, is likewise about 1 hr from the Phoenix downtown area.

A Las Vegas team would be right on the strip.

There's simply no comparing the 3 situations based on that alone. Arena location is a massive issue for a non traditional hockey market.


Carolina? PNC arena is like 5km away from downtown Raleigh, right in between 3 major highway arteries. The Preds play right in downtown Nashville. The lightning play right in Tampa, beside a major highway.

If you don't build your arena in an easily accessible location, you're going to have a hard time drawing bodies to the game. We rip on Ottawa fans for their dodgy attendance (By Canadian standards), but the root of that issue is the same. Instead of building in the downtown core, it was out in the ****ing boonies. That negatively effects attendance.

Shit, if you put the Leafs in Barrie, attendance would be effected. Same with the Flames, put them in Lethbridge and see how good the attendance is. Downtown arenas are massive.

Vegas would be right on the strip, the heaviest trafficked area in the city by a wide, wide margin.

Oh yeah, I'm 100% agreeing with you. I just used a couple "non-hockey markets" as an example. I'm saying that even if they take awhile to build a fan base of locals they have the added benefit of huge tourism and casino comps to supplement the predicted lack of home grown support.

LeafGm
11-13-2014, 02:34 PM
I will admit that ME and Metall are making pretty logical arguments, and as someone who has never been to Las Vegas and doesn't know much about the town, I don't have the wherewhithal to rebut.

My inner skeptic still hasn't been convinced though. But like I said a few pages ago, it looks like we'll get to find out who's right. And I do sort of hope it works out---if anything, just to reduce the numerical imbalance between the Eastern and Western conferences. Besides Seattle and Las Vegas, I'm not sure where else they could really go out West.

zeke
11-13-2014, 02:45 PM
I think Bettman would get shat on for expansion to anywhere other than QC or TOR, really.

Why not try vegas? let's be leaders for a change. There's already rumblings that the other leagues are ready to get more friendly and above board with the gambling industry anyways.

CTheBigPicture
11-13-2014, 02:56 PM
I've never fully understood the "stadium is too far" argument. Every time I go to the Jays/Leafs games, my commute is over 1 hour. IN FACT, I make that same commute to WORK EVERY single day.

I went to Montreal and was absolutely shocked to see the Olympic stadium right there. From all the complaints from the Expos crowd about the location of the building, I was sure it's wayyyy out of town.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 02:57 PM
Having the arena right downtown makes more sense than having out in a freaking wheat field.

Deckie007
11-13-2014, 03:18 PM
I've never fully understood the "stadium is too far" argument. Every time I go to the Jays/Leafs games, my commute is over 1 hour. IN FACT, I make that same commute to WORK EVERY single day.

I went to Montreal and was absolutely shocked to see the Olympic stadium right there. From all the complaints from the Expos crowd about the location of the building, I was sure it's wayyyy out of town.

It's a valid argument. It detracts from the game experience too when there are no pubs or nightlife in the area to visit before or after. Also mass transit servicing the area is a huge bonus too. If the ACC was in Mississauga or the 'shwa it would suck so hard. Being downtown also makes it easier for the corporate crowd, i.e. your biggest clients to get to the game.

number17
11-13-2014, 03:22 PM
My reading comprehension is fine, sunshine. When you call the Bolts boring, you are in fact inferring that Stamkos as related to the Bolts, is also boring.I take it you you the kinda person who have absolutely no problem playing Angrybird on your phone during your entire Europe trip ...

Seems like your issues go beyond comprehension if you can't understand why there are certain things that are perfectly fine to do normally but you would never do when you are on a vacation trip.

Deckie007
11-13-2014, 03:26 PM
I take it you you the kinda person who have absolutely no problem playing Angrybird on your phone during your entire Europe trip ...

Seems like your issues go beyond comprehension if you can't understand why there are certain things that are perfectly fine to do normally but you would never do when you are on a vacation trip.

That's just a weird viewpoint. If I'm in Florida for a week and I can catch a Leaf game for cheap, why wouldn't I do it? It's like 5 hrs of your total trip...
Hell I've been toying with the idea of planing a Spring Training / Leafs trip in March since it lines up so well this year.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 03:34 PM
I was in London in 2007, I did all the usual crap: shop at Fortnum & Mason's, bus tour around London, etc...then find out that, holy shit...the Anaheim Ducks are playing the LA Kings at the O2 during my stay...so I bought 2 tickets off a Swedish guy who's mates decided to go watch West Ham get smacked around. Angry Birds didn't exist back then so I said **** it and toured the city instead.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 03:35 PM
I've never fully understood the "stadium is too far" argument. Every time I go to the Jays/Leafs games, my commute is over 1 hour. IN FACT, I make that same commute to WORK EVERY single day.

Stop thinking of yourself and think about the numbers. Put the arena where population density is the highest. Where the greatest access to transit exists.


I went to Montreal and was absolutely shocked to see the Olympic stadium right there. From all the complaints from the Expos crowd about the location of the building, I was sure it's wayyyy out of town.

It was my understanding that the complaints about the O were based on it being a dump, and not it's geographic location.

LeafGm
11-13-2014, 03:38 PM
It seems to me that we've got two very different scenarios.

If I'm in Florida and the Leafs are playing, hell yes I'll buy a ticket right behind the Leaf bench for $20 and go watch them play. But if I'm in Florida, would I have even the slightest interest in spending 4-5 hours of my vacation seeing the Panthers play any other team? Hell no.

In the context of a team in Vegas, I suspect there are a lot more people like me than there are people like Metalleaf, who would have interest in spending a chunk of their vacation watching two NHL teams they don't cheer for.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 03:41 PM
I might depends on who they are playing...cheap tickets to see Crosby or Kopitar? Sold.

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 03:45 PM
I've never fully understood the "stadium is too far" argument. Every time I go to the Jays/Leafs games, my commute is over 1 hour. IN FACT, I make that same commute to WORK EVERY single day.

I went to Montreal and was absolutely shocked to see the Olympic stadium right there. From all the complaints from the Expos crowd about the location of the building, I was sure it's wayyyy out of town.

What area do you live in? I'm way out in Ajax, the ACC is in a fantastic location for me.

leafman101
11-13-2014, 03:47 PM
Different strokes for different folks right. Here we have at least two people, one who would go to a game and one who wouldn't care.

You don't need all 1 million visitors in Vegas to go to a game. At worst you would need 17,000 without any support from the 2.2 million locals. Realistically if a couple thousand tourists had interest in going to the game that would be huge. Its not a very high percentage of the tourists that need to have interest in seeing a game on vacation.

3000 tourists a game, for 41 games, is 123,000 people a year. Out of 35-40 million tourists. That is less than 1% of tourists that visit Vegas any given year.

For the record, approximately 2 million Canadians visit Vegas every year. So you are talking about less than 1% of normal tourists, or 6% of Canadian tourists would need to have interest in watching a hockey game.

EDIT: for argument sake, if the hockey team is solely relying on tourists to sell out 18,000 seats for 41 games that is 738,000 tourists. Out of 40 million every year. almost 2%

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 03:50 PM
I would say I'd go if it was Vegas vs. at least half the teams in the league. There's definitely a handful I wouldn't care about but those are going to be tougher draws no matter where you put the team.

worm
11-13-2014, 04:16 PM
Shit, if you put the Leafs in Barrie, attendance would be effected. Same with the Flames, put them in Lethbridge and see how good the attendance is. Downtown arenas are massive.

Vegas would be right on the strip, the heaviest trafficked area in the city by a wide, wide margin.

lol

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 04:20 PM
lol

A little extreme, I know. Should have said Banff...but the point is still valid. If the arena was in Airdrie, Okotoks, etc, they have have a hard time drawing a full house.

worm
11-13-2014, 04:36 PM
A little extreme, I know. Should have said Banff...but the point is still valid. If the arena was in Airdrie, Okotoks, etc, they have have a hard time drawing a full house.

Would love watching a hockey game in Banff... :)

As for Vegas....no clue if it would work but I would love to go watch the Habs play there.

BG
11-13-2014, 04:42 PM
Imagine for a second, the atmosphere of an NHL arena filled with comped tourists.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 04:48 PM
Imagine for a second, the atmosphere of an NHL arena filled with comped tourists.

Couldn't possibly be worse than the lower bowl at ACC

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 04:48 PM
except they'd all be hitting the slots and not the sushi bar.

Deckie007
11-13-2014, 04:49 PM
And their best player just broke his hand in a fight...

I see what you did there, Dopey.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 05:52 PM
It seems to me that we've got two very different scenarios.

If I'm in Florida and the Leafs are playing, hell yes I'll buy a ticket right behind the Leaf bench for $20 and go watch them play. But if I'm in Florida, would I have even the slightest interest in spending 4-5 hours of my vacation seeing the Panthers play any other team? Hell no.

In the context of a team in Vegas, I suspect there are a lot more people like me than there are people like Metalleaf, who would have interest in spending a chunk of their vacation watching two NHL teams they don't cheer for.

This is going to be on the marketing team to find ways to make people want to go. To make it the place to be. Gambling will be a big part of it. If they can find a way to make it like going to the track for a few hours that could be a way to get people there.

Like I said before, I think Vegas is a total wildcard that has great potential if it's handled and marketed properly.

worm
11-13-2014, 05:59 PM
I see what you did there, Dopey.

/bow

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 06:06 PM
Here are some LV Wrangler promotions to consider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Wranglers

Notable promotions

The Wranglers are the only team to hold a game that is played at midnight. The annual "Midnight Roundup" was created so that Las Vegas residents who work during the usual game times (e.g. employees of the gaming industry), could watch a game, first as a December game, but starting in 2011–12, there will be two (the other on the Washington's Birthday holiday). Other Wranglers promotions have included the traditional mullet hat night and even a give away of orange vests that said "Don't Shoot...I'm Human!" during a game on March 17, 2006, a joke on the Dick Cheney hunting incident.[44] On January 2009, the team held the "Rod Blagojevich Prison Uniform Night" parodying the impeachment of the then-Governor of Illinois, where both teams wore inmate-like attire - the Wranglers striped jerseys, the visiting Bakersfield Condors orange jerseys resembling the current Department of Corrections issue - and the referees blue jerseys resembling prison guards.[45] Their 2011/12 home opener was a promotion for "Rapture Day", as this game coincided with the Rapture prediction of Oakland radio host Harold Camping,[46] and on New Years Day, to parody how the 2012 NHL lockout forced the NHL Winter Classic to be cancelled that year, the Wranglers held an "Indoor Winter Classic", that even gave a trophy with a chain and a padlock.[47][48]

CTheBigPicture
11-13-2014, 06:09 PM
Stop thinking of yourself and think about the numbers. Put the arena where population density is the highest. Where the greatest access to transit exists.



It was my understanding that the complaints about the O were based on it being a dump, and not it's geographic location.

Fair enough. I'm mostly judging it through my own lense. For me, it doesn't matter who is playing in Vegas, yes even if it's the Leafs; if I'm there for 4 nights I'm not spending one of them in an arena. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the general population will react.

CTheBigPicture
11-13-2014, 06:13 PM
What area do you live in? I'm way out in Ajax, the ACC is in a fantastic location for me.
Thornhill. I have no problem with the location of ACC even though it's quite far from me.

Someone did mention the importance of public transportation though. I think that's key if you have an arena that's far from you.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 06:14 PM
Fair enough. I'm mostly judging it through my own lense.
Seems as if you are failing to see the big picture.


For me, it doesn't matter who is playing in Vegas, yes even if it's the Leafs; if I'm there for 4 nights I'm not spending one of them in an arena. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the general population will react.

Really? 3 hours out of one of your 4 nights? To see the Leafs play in Vegas? You wouldn't do that?

Hell if I'm in Vegas and the Habs are playing in New York I'm sitting in my hotel watching on the laptop. If they were actually playing in Vegas I'd be all over that game.

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 06:16 PM
Really? 3 hours out of one of your 4 nights? To see the Leafs play in Vegas? You wouldn't do that?

Hell if I'm in Vegas and the Habs are playing in New York I'm sitting in my hotel watching on the laptop. If they were actually playing in Vegas I'd be all over that game.

Yeah, that seems crazy to me. I don't think this is the perspective of most Leaf fans.

CTheBigPicture
11-13-2014, 06:24 PM
Seems as if you are failing to see the big picture.



Really? 3 hours out of one of your 4 nights? To see the Leafs play in Vegas? You wouldn't do that?

Hell if I'm in Vegas and the Habs are playing in New York I'm sitting in my hotel watching on the laptop. If they were actually playing in Vegas I'd be all over that game.
Lol busted! Definitely not seeing the big picture.

Now if you are asking me about trips that involve sports, I look at it this way: Experience of a hockey game on November 2nd in city X and one on November 22nd in city Y are basically one and the same. Experience outside the arena in city X and city Y vastly defer however. So why spend a whole evening indoors when I can watch a hockey game anywhere?

There are exceptions. If I go to, say Buffalo, I'll gladly go to a game. If I am in a city with a historic venue, ill go. If it's the world cup or something and I'm in the city that's hosting it, I'll gladly go to a game too. These are types of attractions that will make my trip much more enjoyable/memorable vs me skipping them. Joy that I would not be able to replicate back home.

If I'm in Vegas, or Miami however, I'm typically spending my time on a beach or on the strip.

Ps also keep in mind that I have a wife who is not a sports fan so I may not have a choice haha.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 06:30 PM
Yeah, that seems crazy to me. I don't think this is the perspective of most Leaf fans.

Timmay and myself are flying to Chicago in December to see the Leafs ffs....I think that's a bit more indicative of the attitudes most Leaf fans have.

Las Vegas would just be another Leaf home game.

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 06:33 PM
I don't get why people keep bringing up the beach as a reason they won't go to hockey games.

The games are at night, guys. They're not taking you away from the beach. And you're not missing anything by hitting the Strip after 10. Let's be honest, there's nothing that makes you want to consume large amounts of alcohol like watching the Leafs. Perfect evening activity before you get things started in my mind.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 06:44 PM
Timmay and myself are flying to Chicago in December to see the Leafs ffs....I think that's a bit more indicative of the attitudes most Leaf fans have.

Las Vegas would just be another Leaf home game.

The wife and I are in Chicago that night. We definitely have to get together for a beer.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 06:45 PM
I don't get why people keep bringing up the beach as a reason they won't go to hockey games.

The games are at night, guys. They're not taking you away from the beach. And you're not missing anything by hitting the Strip after 10. Let's be honest, there's nothing that makes you want to consume large amounts of alcohol like watching the Leafs. Perfect evening activity before you get things started in my mind.

If I wasn't taken.....you'd have to turn me down repeatedly before I got the message.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 06:56 PM
The wife and I are in Chicago that night. We definitely have to get together for a beer.

Deal.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 06:58 PM
Right on.

JackBurton
11-13-2014, 07:04 PM
And a Bunny Ranch kiosk.

There needs to be an Eric The Actor statue at the bunny ranch.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 07:05 PM
There needs to be an Eric The Actor statue at the bunny ranch.

For sure.

I miss that ornery little bastard.

CH1
11-13-2014, 07:05 PM
THe only flaw to that logic, imho, is to develop your love for a team, and your start to follow a team, after a period of time.

Most of the people who spend the big bucks on entertainment in Vegas are NOT the locals. It's the tourists.

For the same reason you are very unlikely to buy tickets to watch a local team's pro sports game when you go visit Paris, or London, or Beijing, or San Diego ... you can't expect the tourists to be the bulk of your gate attendance for Vegas.

When I visited Washington recently, going to the Caps game over my 4 days trip never crossed my mind - and this is for a game that I LOVE!

If it's the NY Yankees or the Boston Bruins or Manchester United it's another story ... these are storied franchises. Las Vegas Panthers (or whatever it is), is not.

I agree. An NHL game is not something that will pull in the average tourist who lacks a rooting interest in that specific game. Unless, as you say, the event is a strong part of the local culture (ie Yanks, Leafs, ManU, Sumo Wrestling) and that ain't gonna happen with hockey in Vegas.

When I was in Nashville years ago, I walked by Predator scalpers with no desire to buy a ticket. I'd rather experience something new than a 3rd rate version of what I like to do at home. In Vegas, the NHL would have a hard time cracking my top 20 things to do.

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 07:08 PM
I agree. An NHL game is not something that will pull in the average tourist who lacks a rooting interest in that specific game. Unless, as you say, the event is a strong part of the local culture (ie Yanks, Leafs, ManU, Sumo Wrestling) and that ain't gonna happen with hockey in Vegas.

When I was in Nashville years ago, I walked by Predator scalpers with no desire to buy a ticket. I'd rather experience something new than a 3rd rate version of what I like to do at home. In Vegas, the NHL would have a hard time cracking my top 20 things to do.

Am I safe in assuming this doesn't apply if the Habs are in town?

JackBurton
11-13-2014, 07:14 PM
A lot of hard core hockey fans would not even consider wasting time in Vegas on watching a game. Just too much to do.

CH1
11-13-2014, 07:14 PM
Am I safe in assuming this doesn't apply if the Habs are in town?

Like I said, I was referring to the non rooting interest scenario. No question I would go see the Habs if the time/place was reasonably convenient but I'm not entirely sure I would enjoy it as much as the average Leafs-Hab contest on tv. Atmosphere matters and who knows if Vegas could pull it off.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 07:17 PM
I agree. An NHL game is not something that will pull in the average tourist who lacks a rooting interest in that specific game. Unless, as you say, the event is a strong part of the local culture (ie Yanks, Leafs, ManU, Sumo Wrestling) and that ain't gonna happen with hockey in Vegas.

When I was in Nashville years ago, I walked by Predator scalpers with no desire to buy a ticket. I'd rather experience something new than a 3rd rate version of what I like to do at home. In Vegas, the NHL would have a hard time cracking my top 20 things to do.

Agreed to an extent...but the question is, who is in town?

70% of Vegas tourists are American. So at any given time, there's tens of thousands of people from traditional American hockey markets in town. Would a Rangers fan go see Crosby? Ovechkin? Stamkos?

Yeah, the Florida Panther games might be a bit grim for attendance, but the ~25 Canadian/Premium American market visits will all be full...and yeah, an ECHL team put 4500 a night in the seats, I don't see how that wouldn't translate out into at least Phoenix levels of support for a local club on their own. Now add Casino support, now add the obscene amount of tourism the city gets.

It's a city of 2 million that has roughly 600K-800K additional people in the city every day, there with disposable income and nothing but time.

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 07:20 PM
My friends are trying to convince me to go to a Las Vegas 51s game when I'm down there in April. If I'd go there...

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 07:21 PM
Btw....I preemptively call bullshit on any hockey fan who would travel to Vegas anyway, not seeing if they could plan their Vegas trip to meet up with their clubs trip there.

Lots of awesome stuff to do in Vegas....but between 7pm & 10pm? It wouldn't get in the way of anything, especially given the arena being right in the middle of everything.

CH1
11-13-2014, 07:24 PM
ME, I think you're overestimating the star power of seeing Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, live compared to all the other attractions in town. Vegas is as much a mindset as anything else, and seeing these players yet another time won't cut it as a Vegas Plan A. If you're a diehard hockey fan, the NHL offers you a multitude of other ways to engage your appreciation.

I agree about the favourable 7-10 timeslot.

Habspatrol
11-13-2014, 07:26 PM
Shit, people go to see Blueman Group, Celine Dion, Sigfried and Roy, some ventriloquist, Cirque du Soleil and a 100 other shows they'd never go out of their way to see anywhere else when they're in Vegas. I don't think that a hockey game is a ridiculous idea. And you can gamble on it.

CH1
11-13-2014, 07:28 PM
My friends are trying to convince me to go to a Las Vegas 51s game when I'm down there in April. If I'd go there...

..you're a 1 percenter in the hockey die-hard spectrum (fully living up to your name)

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 07:34 PM
..you're a 1 percenter in the hockey die-hard spectrum (fully living up to your name)

That's minor league baseball. My friends went last year and said that was the drunkest they got during the whole trip (dollar beers).

But they're big sports people no matter what it is.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 07:35 PM
ME, I think you're overestimating the star power of seeing Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, live compared to all the other attractions in town. Vegas is as much a mindset as anything else, and seeing these players yet another time won't cut it as a Vegas Plan A. If you're a diehard hockey fan, the NHL offers you a multitude of other ways to engage your appreciation.

I agree about the favourable 7-10 timeslot.

Thing is though, it doesn't take up your entire day, entire night, whatever. Really all you're subbing out for the hockey game is a Vegas show. Yes, I'll stack a NHL game up against Celine Dion, etc. You're really only going to go see Cirque once while you're there.

Seriously, what evening attractions are better than a hockey game in Vegas? It doesn't get in the way of ripping around the track, firing guns, zip lining, helicopter rides, dam tours, shopping and all the other typical day time stuff, and it doesn't get in the way of the clubbing, power drinking,etc of the late night.

Yeah, if you'd rather go see a 2nd rate musical, a tribute concert or you're the type of person who wants to see every Cirque act in town....sure, there might not be time to sneak a night of hockey in. I think it would be extremely competitive in that marketplace though, considering how much of the tourism it gets comes from strong hockey markets.

CH1
11-13-2014, 07:35 PM
Shit, people go to see Blueman Group, Celine Dion, Sigfried and Roy, some ventriloquist, Cirque du Soleil and a 100 other shows they'd never go out of their way to see anywhere else when they're in Vegas. I don't think that a hockey game is a ridiculous idea. And you can gamble on it.

Those events actually rate higher for most people outside this forum. These events are memorable stories people bring home to share at the office water cooler. I've seen Blueman, Cirque, legendary comics, rock bands -- all of whom rate much higher as a singular live experience than watching Crosby get two assists vs Calgary or even the Habs beating the Sabres 2-1 in January.

CH1
11-13-2014, 07:39 PM
Thing is though, it doesn't take up your entire day, entire night, whatever. Really all you're subbing out for the hockey game is a Vegas show. Yes, I'll stack a NHL game up against Celine Dion, etc. You're really only going to go see Cirque once while you're there.

Seriously, what evening attractions are better than a hockey game in Vegas? It doesn't get in the way of ripping around the track, firing guns, zip lining, helicopter rides, dam tours, shopping and all the other typical day time stuff, and it doesn't get in the way of the clubbing, power drinking,etc of the late night.

Yeah, if you'd rather go see a 2nd rate musical, a tribute concert or you're the type of person who wants to see every Cirque act in town....sure, there might not be time to sneak a night of hockey in. I think it would be extremely competitive in that marketplace though, considering how much of the tourism it gets comes from strong hockey markets.

I'm not a big Cirque fan, much less a 2nd rate musical or tribute aficionado. My point is there is no scarcity when it comes to the NHL, so I might not seek it out in Vegas unless I get a favourable matchup so to speak.

Leafin'
11-13-2014, 07:41 PM
Cirque du Soleil>>> Non Leaf hockey

hockeylover
11-13-2014, 07:41 PM
Cirque du Soleil>>> Non Leaf hockey

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wXw6znXPfy4/0.jpg

BeLeafer
11-13-2014, 07:44 PM
Dave Shoalts had an article the other day about the new Coyotes owners having an escape clause to let them out of Glendale. Not sure how credible his numbers are, but he made a case that they are highly unlikely to miss the numbers to get out of there.

Hmmm, could this be related to putting a team in LV? Probably, as they would want to maintain a footprint in that part of the world for the national tv deal.

Metalleaf
11-13-2014, 07:49 PM
Cirque du Soleil>>> Non Leaf hockey

Only on shrooms.

MindzEye
11-13-2014, 07:56 PM
Cirque du Soleil>>> Non Leaf hockey

Whatever floats your boat man....but my point is, there's lots of time in Vegas for both. If you're there for 4 days, 3 nights, that's 3 different "shows" you can go to. I don't know about you man, but I'd definitely drop in for a game.

Shit, NYC has a ridiculous amount to do and last time I was there I watched the Isles play the Jets and caught a Brooklyn Nets game. If it's something that you're into, you make time.

MyNameIsJonas
11-20-2014, 09:28 AM
Blue Jackets Jack Johnson files for bankruptcy.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/635518

LeafGm
11-20-2014, 09:45 AM
Blue Jackets Jack Johnson files for bankruptcy.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/635518
Yeah, I read that this morning. It's a pretty sad story. It's not the usual "rich athlete makes a bunch of really stupid financial decisions and ends up bankrupt" story. He left his finances in his parents' hands, and they deliberately hosed him for pretty much every penny he's got.

Hoss
11-20-2014, 10:06 AM
I've seen that a few times and I just don't understand it. How the hell could a parent swindle and steal all that from your child. I could see taking a percentage like an agent would, but the that is the lowest of the low.

Can he not have them arrested??

Metalleaf
11-20-2014, 10:14 AM
Money turns people into ****ing douche bags.

Deckie007
11-20-2014, 10:18 AM
She did that in 3 years too...like WTF? I couldn't do that to anyone, never mind my own blood. Wonder if she has a gambling problem or something?

LeafGm
11-20-2014, 10:24 AM
I've seen that a few times and I just don't understand it. How the hell could a parent swindle and steal all that from your child. I could see taking a percentage like an agent would, but the that is the lowest of the low.

Can he not have them arrested??
The article specifically states that he could have had them charged, but chose not to. I guess I can sort of understand. It's bad enough having to cut off contact with your parents because of something like this---it's another matter entirely to seek to have them thrown in jail.

The thing I don't get is even if you take the emotion of the parent-child relationship out of this, if Johnson's parents viewed him as their personal ATM machine rather than a son---why flush all of his money down the toilet with all of those high interest loans against his NHL contract? If he was willing to trust them completely with his finances, it stands to reason that he would have been there for them financially for the rest of their lives. They and their son would have both been better off in the long run if they'd just managed his money wisely and conservatively, and made sure that he still had a health nest egg waiting for him when his playing days were done.

Now they're on their own, and they probably won't ever see another penny from him again.

LeafGm
11-23-2014, 03:22 PM
Heh:


Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3h3 hours ago
Among Oilers trade targets...David Perron. Told MacTavish is asking for a top center in return. Edmtn gm obviously working phones. #TSN

Good luck with that, Oil change.

Artnes
11-23-2014, 03:39 PM
Top AHL centre?

It's getting to the point where they have to bite the bullet and deal one of their core guys to bring in help

The second tier assets they have just won't cut it

MindzEye
11-23-2014, 04:01 PM
Or just be patient and wait for a combination of solid, below the radar FA adds, and their pipeline of complimentary talent to fill in the roster properly.

But that would make sense, so they'll probably do something stupid like trade Yak for some character grinder.

TimHorton
11-23-2014, 04:04 PM
something stupid like trade Yak for some character grinder

Clarkson is available for said trade.

Volcanologist
11-23-2014, 04:23 PM
Clarkson is available for said trade.

And now he's signed to a cheaper contract than the one they offered him! sweet deal!

Killer93
11-23-2014, 07:28 PM
Perron for a 1st line centre? LOL

Leafin'
11-24-2014, 01:10 AM
Perron would be a nice add to this team in place of a Lupul.

number17
11-24-2014, 09:10 AM
If the Oilers want anything close to a top line center, they gotta dangle Eberle, or at the very least Yakupov (and I doubt even that will get it done ... Yakupov has 7 points in 21 games and has looked anything but the forward he was projected to be)

Perron won't get you crap especially given that contract he's signed ... I won't even trade Bozak for Perron+

Volcanologist
11-24-2014, 10:11 AM
No doubt the Oilers are hoping they don't have to give up a core piece in order to get a different one at another position, but it's pretty unlikely.

zeke
11-24-2014, 10:48 AM
The Hockey News @TheHockeyNews
Pat Quinn has passed away at the age of 71. The Hockey News sends its condolences to his family.


ah crap. love that man so much.

zeke
11-24-2014, 12:56 PM
Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug
Oilers have fired Goaltending coach Freddie Chabot. Expectation is Dustin Schwartz will replace him.


#oilchange

Habspatrol
11-24-2014, 12:59 PM
About time they clean house!!

Leafin'
11-24-2014, 01:13 PM
If the Oilers want anything close to a top line center, they gotta dangle Eberle, or at the very least Yakupov (and I doubt even that will get it done ... Yakupov has 7 points in 21 games and has looked anything but the forward he was projected to be)

Perron won't get you crap especially given that contract he's signed ... I won't even trade Bozak for Perron+

I wouldn't be moving Bozak for anything other than a significant upgrade up the middle. I'd be all over getting Perron though. Solid 50 point guy. Would be a nice linemate for Kadri.

MindzEye
11-25-2014, 11:52 PM
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 4m4 minutes ago
Can't say with certainty an EDM-CBJ trade will be consummated but by all accounts they're working very hard to make something happen.


Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2m2 minutes ago
See @TSNAaronWard's timeline for details. Perron and Anisimov primary names mentioned but others are also apparently being discussed.



Anisimov is the top centre they were seeking for Perron?

#Oilchange

leafman101
11-25-2014, 11:57 PM
They need centers badly. Anisimov would be a solid pick up for them.

leafman101
11-26-2014, 10:39 AM
Elliotte Friedman ‏
Further to @Aportzline tweet, was told this am CLB is not at all keen on trading Anisimov. Good player.

zeke
11-26-2014, 10:44 AM
Yeah, Anisimov is a nice big two-way good possession 40pt center with some more offensive upside with some better wingers.

leafman101
11-26-2014, 10:55 AM
http://i.imgur.com/dv6C821.gif

Knucklepuck time.

Leafyblue
11-26-2014, 10:59 AM
That dropped like crazy...though...should you be on your knees for a shot from center ice?

BG
11-26-2014, 11:00 AM
They could really use a guy like Gagner, you know, to shelter the rookie 2nd line center Draistl, and as insurance for the inevitable injuries to their top-line.

Nope, trade Gagner for Purcell - only to try and move Perron to replace Gagner.

Killer93
11-26-2014, 11:02 AM
#oilchange

Volcanologist
11-26-2014, 12:03 PM
Even we can trash the Oil. what a gongshow.

Hoss
11-26-2014, 12:09 PM
The crappy thing is, that when the leafs were on that 3 game losing streak, there were many in the media and many in the general public who still insisted that they would take the Oiler's Line up over the leafs because of the first overall picks... and that we don't have any of that talent.

Mactavish is so scared crapless to make a move of one of those first picks that he is trying to change the organization by trading and offering the fringe players.

It's the core that needs changing. The skeleton of that team is soft. He's trying to change the face by just giving the body a hair cut, when it needs a full transplant.

And people say our organization is poorly run. guh

CTheBigPicture
11-26-2014, 01:31 PM
LOL:

Darcy Tucker ✔ @16DarcyTucker
Guess I should book my trip to Ottawa Dec.4th I'm sure Alfie would want me there on the big day #waitingbythephone

hockeylover
11-26-2014, 01:49 PM
lol, love him.

Volcanologist
11-26-2014, 01:58 PM
He should wait till Alfie starts talking, then run up and hit him from behind at the podium.

BG
11-26-2014, 02:38 PM
He should attend in his Leafs jersey, but keep his back to Alfie the entire speech.

Leafin'
11-26-2014, 03:30 PM
Tucker>>>

And boy is it swell seeing Edmonton shit the bed once again. All those mediots saying last week how they'd rather have the Oilers roster than the Leafs can go back to huffing fumes.

If only we could dump Clarkson on them.

BG
11-26-2014, 03:58 PM
Eberle(24) - Nugent-Hopkins(21) - Hall(22) * Kessel(26) - Bozak(28) - van Reimsdyk(25)
Pouliot(27) - Draisaitl(18) - Yakupov(20) * Lupul(30) - Kadri(23) - Komarov(27)
Perron(26) - Arcobello(26) - Purcell(28) * Winnik(29) - Holland(23) - Clarkson(30)
Hendricks(33) - Gordon(30) - Gazdik(25) * Santorelli(28) - Smith(29) - Panik(23)

Schultz(24) - Marincin(22) * Phaneuf(29) - Franson(27)
Ference(35) - Petry(26) * Rielly(20) - Robidas(37)
Fayne(27) - Nikitin(28) * Gardiner(24) - Polak(28)

Scrivens(27) * Bernier(26)
Fasth(32) * Reimer(26)

Leafin'
11-26-2014, 04:02 PM
LOL at all the hype they got for signing Fayne and Nikitin to those deals. Junk.

leafman101
11-26-2014, 04:08 PM
They have no centers or D. You need to have centers and D. They have one NHL center and no top 3 dmen.

The Leafs haven't been the deepest in those areas, and they look like the Kings in comparison.

BG
11-26-2014, 04:29 PM
Just love seeing the Flames doing some damage in that division, while the Oilers keep sinking.

Oilers should probably try and move to the Eastern Conference.

MyNameIsJonas
11-26-2014, 04:33 PM
Not to defend Edmonton here, but the vet UFA's they need to sign at C and D don't want to sign in Edmonton and in order to get them to even consider it they would need to be so overpaid that the likes of us rip the Oil for those contracts.

worm
11-26-2014, 04:41 PM
Kevin Lowe

MyNameIsJonas
11-26-2014, 04:43 PM
Kevin Lowe

Yeah, he's all sorts of awful

MindzEye
11-26-2014, 04:49 PM
Not to defend Edmonton here, but the vet UFA's they need to sign at C and D don't want to sign in Edmonton and in order to get them to even consider it they would need to be so overpaid that the likes of us rip the Oil for those contracts.

They need to be all over the type of moves that we made this past off season. Guys like Santorelli, Winnik, etc should never get past them. Even if you have to pay them double what other markets are on that one year deal they need to try to build FA value, do it. It's way better than overpaying for long term crap. Does Winnik or Santorelli turn down 1 yr 3.5 million?

BG
11-26-2014, 04:53 PM
In Edmonton's defence, they seem to have picked the wrong decade to tank.

Their choice to only draft European forwards with cools names beyond the first round seems to be bearing very little fruit as well.

MyNameIsJonas
11-26-2014, 05:00 PM
Marty Broduer to start practicing with Blues starting Friday

LeafGm
11-26-2014, 06:27 PM
Marty Broduer to start practicing with Blues starting Friday
That'd be pretty much the ideal situation for Brodeur to drop into. An elite NHL team with a structured defensive system, like the Devils for most of his career there. The question is though, how serious is in the injury to Elliot?

He's listed as week-to-week, and as soon as he's back, there's not much room for Brodeur:

Brian Elliott: GP 14, 8-4-1, 1.82 G.A.A., 0.931SV%
Jake Allen: GP 9, 6-2-1, 2.12 G.A.A., 0.920SV%

MyNameIsJonas
11-26-2014, 06:37 PM
week to week is code for we have no ****ing idea.

Hoss
11-26-2014, 09:14 PM
Edmonton is desperately looking for a goalie. I would totally trade them Reimer for Scrivens or Fasth and a pick .

Habsy
11-27-2014, 09:18 AM
Reimer and Scrivens together again. LOL. You're cruel.

Hoss
11-27-2014, 10:12 AM
I know, but I actually have more faith in Scrivens as a back up than Reimer. Scrivens came up big when he was needed. Reims, not so much. And I know people can throw sv% and all that, but when Reims is bad he's bad, and when he's good, I still see bad habits. (zero rebound control)

Right now Bernier has his ups and downs, but I think there wouldn't be so much controversy with having Scrivens as the back up or even Fasth.

LeafGm
11-27-2014, 10:16 AM
Reimer and Scrivens together again. LOL. You're cruel.
Hey, Reimer/Scrivens IS the only goaltending duo to get the Leafs to the playoffs in the last 10 years.

Still, if Edmonton was to dump one of their goalies in favour of another, I'd think they'd go another direction than a goalie who's currently a back-up, and who posted a 0.911 SV% last year, and a0.898 SV% so far this year. If anyone's ever going to be interested in trading anything to us so that they can give James a shot in their net, he's going to have to play a hell of a lot better.

LeafGm
11-27-2014, 10:18 AM
I know, but I actually have more faith in Scrivens as a back up than Reimer. Scrivens came up big when he was needed. Reims, not so much. And I know people can throw sv% and all that, but when Reims is bad he's bad, and when he's good, I still see bad habits. (zero rebound control)

Right now Bernier has his ups and downs, but I think there wouldn't be so much controversy with having Scrivens as the back up or even Fasth.
I think the "contraversy" is pretty much over, dude.

I don't think there's even anyone left around here who'd argue that Reimer should be starting instead of Bernier at this point.

Hoss
11-27-2014, 10:36 AM
Why did you write "contraversy"..... I didn't spell it incorrectly in my post, and the controversy I mentioned would be between Randy and Reims where the media is always asking Randy who's playing, and why isn't Reimer getting a shot when Bernier hasn't been so hot lately himself.

Reimer needs a fresh start elsewhere, the twitter posts to April, and to him are ridiculous.

LeafGm
11-27-2014, 11:14 AM
Heh, the mis-spelling was my own. I just put the word in quotes because I don't think any goaltending contrOversy actually exists anymore.

That ended with Reimer shitting the bed for us in epic fashion last year, after Bernier had established himself as our starter before going down to injury. Until he proves otherwise again, Reimer is clearly a back-up at this point.

As for him getting his fresh start, he'll get it eventually. But I don't see how dumping him at his lowest value and picking up a backup goalie that's worse than him really helps the team at this point.

Hoss
11-27-2014, 11:59 AM
I agree that his value is lowest right now, but I disagree that the back up we'd get would be worse. I think I'd have more confidence in Scrivens than Reimer, just from what Scrivens did for the leafs when he was here, and the numbers he put up with LA and you can't blame him for the shiite show defense that is Edmonton.

Volcanologist
11-27-2014, 12:15 PM
Reimer is worth a mid-low draft pick right now. He's been a well below average goalie this season.

MyNameIsJonas
11-27-2014, 12:19 PM
If Edmonton trades for a goalie it should be for a clear cut upgrade on what they have, not another maybe.

MindzEye
11-27-2014, 01:11 PM
If Edmonton trades for a goalie it should be for a clear cut upgrade on what they have, not another maybe.

Their play should be to let this season run it's course. Take their top 3 pick (maybe McDavid?) and then call LA. Martin Jones is a RFA in LA and in a very similar position that Bernier was in prior to last season. Has played well enough to deserve a significant raise (odds are he'll be at 40-45 career games worth of .920+ play by the end of this season), and LAK will be unwilling to spend more on goaltending than they already are.

Do what we did, and trade spare parts for a young goalie who has succeeded at every level and just needs an opportunity somewhere. Also a good opportunity to get him locked up for 3-4 years in the 2.5 million dollar range, which could be a huge steal.

Hoss
11-27-2014, 01:16 PM
I'm more banking on Edmonton being stupid, and taking a flier on Reimer... you now, western Canada boy, stuff like that. They also clearly don't want to move any key pieces, so they would be content in just shifting chairs on the titanic, hoping it will do something.

Who knows, Reimer might go in and do well for a bit, and get them out of the top 4 and then next year they'll be back to square one.

Leafin'
11-27-2014, 01:26 PM
On the Leafs and Kings...

Meanwhile, the Maple Leafs are talking to LA regarding Mike Richards or Dwight King.

e6 or whatever.

Here is our 2014 version of a homeless Doug Gilmour. Though Richards here would probably be just as loved.

LeafGm
11-27-2014, 01:56 PM
The only way I'd take Mike Richards is if David Clarkson is going back the other way. With the way he's deteriorated in the last few years, his contract is now among the worst in the league...and he's got 5 years @ $5.75M per season left after this season.

Fortunately, as I'm assuming this is another "rumour" Eklund heard from the voices in his head after huffing some glue, we can completely ignore the idea.

Hoss
11-27-2014, 01:56 PM
There was a leaf rumour earlier that seemed to start from hockey buzz but I saw it on other cheesy leaf sites so they probably just lifted it from Eklund, that The leafs were in talks with Florida and that Lupul would be going to the panthers for Willie Mitchell.....

Take it for what it's worth.

I think Richards is a bit done, but Lupul would be happy as eff to be included in a deal to go to LA.

Leafin'
11-27-2014, 02:03 PM
With the NHL potentially looking to make their first statement on these assault cases, LA might need a guy to replace Voynov for the year. Maybe a deal of Franson for Richards.

Possible rationale(please don't eat my head for this):

Franson is a UFA at seasons end, so a relatively low risk move for them. Richards has been playing in the bottom 6 because of the depth in the lineup.

Say the trade was:

Franson for Richards + (1 mill retained)

This way LA gets out of the contract and get a Voynov replacement , and the Leafs get a guy with a ton of experience at a contract that isn't a complete anchor (4.25).

Leafin'
11-27-2014, 02:05 PM
JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Komarov - Kadri - XXXX
Lupul - Richards - Clarkson <------ The most expensive 3rd line in history.

LeafGm
11-27-2014, 02:11 PM
We trade the guy who's been our #2 defenseman (and run-away best offensive defenseman) for the Kings' version of David Clarkson? A guy with a contract so bad it ranks among the league's worst, and the Kings would probably be willing to GIVE UP assets to get someone to take it?

Are you out of your ****ing mind?

Leafin'
11-27-2014, 02:21 PM
I don't think Richards is as done as some may say. I think he's a guy that has accepted the role that his coach has handed to him. He is a lot better than Clarkson.

Trading this alleged #2 defender before he is gone for nothing is good asset management in my mind. Richards isn't great value, but he brings quite a bit to the table that the Leafs lack. Franson being our #2 defender is one of the many reasons our team is where it is.

Scoring goals isn't this teams problem, its stopping other teams from scoring. Richards @ 4.25(in my trade scenario) > Franson at whatever he signs this offseason(likely 4-5x5)

This is more a trade for an identity. Richards is a risky move.

Not out of my mind, just contributing to a board that has become quite dead. This is a place of discussion afterall.

Volcanologist
11-27-2014, 02:39 PM
You're really handcuffing yourself taking a deal like that, especially with Clarkson already entrenched.

leafman101
11-27-2014, 03:02 PM
The problem with Richards is LA wants to dump him for the same reason Philly did. They don't think he takes the game seriously enough. And now its not just partying too much, but flat out not taking care of his body. You don't want a broken down 30 year old on that contract. Guys like that can't compete anymore. Its a young mans game now, and the old guys have to stay in shape to keep up.

That said I'd gladly trade Clarkson for him.

Leafin'
11-27-2014, 03:12 PM
I don't want to defend Richards with regards to how he takes care of his body, as there is no way for to verify either which way. All i'm saying is that it would be an interesting situation if it presented itself.

I just think if he was UFA this summer, he'd be getting a contract similar to Bolland. As far as i'm concerned Richards>Bolland.

Yea, that Clarkson deal is pretty bad. Clarkson has reverted back to being a bum without that mask. Someone break his nose of something.

Leafin'
11-27-2014, 03:16 PM
AND if he was a UFA, i feel as though this team would be looking to get him.

leafman101
11-27-2014, 03:19 PM
Is he better than Bolland though? This year he has been a 30-40 point, small, slow center with poor possession and faceoff numbers. Sounds a lot like Bolland actually.

And the best case scenerio is he is a small, slow 30 year old 2nd line center signed for $6 million until he is 35.

Frankly I'm not sure he is better than Bozak at this point. And he certainly isn't better than Kadri. So why are we spending $6 million on a maybe for a 3rd line center?

Just to fit him under the cap you need to move good players too (unless someone magically takes Clarkson). Lupul, JVR, Bozak, Gardiner. Someone like that would have to go.

LeafGm
11-27-2014, 03:29 PM
If Richards was a UFA, I'd be fine with this team signing him to the same kind of deal Mike Santorelli, Daniel Winnik and David Booth all got this summer. Anything more than that though? No thanks. Having third liners signed to bloated long-term contracts (whether you signed the deal yourself or traded for it) is the kiss of death in the salary-cap era NHL.

That's why the Kings seriously considered buying him out in the summer, and that's why they're trying to get rid of him now. And so far this year, even completely ignoring salary:

Mike Santorelli > Mike Richards
Daniel Winnik > Mike Richards

Leafin'
11-27-2014, 03:40 PM
Is he better than Bolland though? This year he has been a 30-40 point, small, slow center with poor possession and faceoff numbers. Sounds a lot like Bolland actually.

And the best case scenerio is he is a small, slow 30 year old 2nd line center signed for $6 million until he is 35.

Frankly I'm not sure he is better than Bozak at this point. And he certainly isn't better than Kadri. So why are we spending $6 million on a maybe for a 3rd line center?

Just to fit him under the cap you need to move good players too (unless someone magically takes Clarkson). Lupul, JVR, Bozak, Gardiner. Someone like that would have to go.

Nonis should be fired for the Clarkson deal.

Shanahan almost kept Bolland.

It would 100% be something Leaf-like if they acquired Mike Richards.

I'm just hoping for an improvement of the team. I don't care if Richards puts up 10 points during the season if he helps this team win a cup. Beyond looking at websites with analytics, Richards has good qualities to add to any team. He's a guy that has proven to be healthier than Bolland in recent years. At the same age of Kadri, he was the captain of the Philadelphia Flyers and took them to the finals(if i recall).

He may be broken down and never regain his prior form, but he's accomplished more in his career already than our entire roster.

JackBurton
11-27-2014, 04:21 PM
Richards has regressed badly. Stay away. 5 more years for 5.75 per. Ouch.

If he was in Toronto we'd hear a lot about how finished he is and what a terrible contract it is.

LeafGm
11-27-2014, 04:29 PM
Nonis should be fired for the Clarkson deal.

Shanahan almost kept Bolland.

It would 100% be something Leaf-like if they acquired Mike Richards.

I'm just hoping for an improvement of the team. I don't care if Richards puts up 10 points during the season if he helps this team win a cup. Beyond looking at websites with analytics, Richards has good qualities to add to any team. He's a guy that has proven to be healthier than Bolland in recent years. At the same age of Kadri, he was the captain of the Philadelphia Flyers and took them to the finals(if i recall).

He may be broken down and never regain his prior form, but he's accomplished more in his career already than our entire roster.
If your goal is to win the Cup, then tying yourself into a rapidly declining third-line center for the next six years at $5.75M per season is pretty counter-productive to that goal. You're just letting yourself get waaay too enamoured with him just because he is (or used to be) a "big name" player who's been a part of some good playoff teams. But there are guys available in the bargain bin every summer for low prices and no term that are presently more useful players than Mike Richards.

I mean, in your quest to come up with ways to help this team win the Cup, have you stopped and asked yourself why Chicago dumped Bolland, and why LA's now looking to dump Richards? These are both Stanley Cup contenders with multiple recent Cup wins, and they've chosen to get rid of the exact type of player you want the Leafs to pick up. Why do you think that is?

soco22
11-27-2014, 04:58 PM
If you plan on winning in three years, then fine with Richards vs Clarkson, as its one less year to buy out and both are just as useless.

Deckie007
11-27-2014, 05:10 PM
Nonis should be fired for the Clarkson deal.

Shanahan almost kept Bolland.

It would 100% be something Leaf-like if they acquired Mike Richards.

I'm just hoping for an improvement of the team. I don't care if Richards puts up 10 points during the season if he helps this team win a cup. Beyond looking at websites with analytics, Richards has good qualities to add to any team. He's a guy that has proven to be healthier than Bolland in recent years. At the same age of Kadri, he was the captain of the Philadelphia Flyers and took them to the finals(if i recall).

He may be broken down and never regain his prior form, but he's accomplished more in his career already than our entire roster.

So you want an old and busted overpaid 3rd liner who is a depth player for the Kings @ 5.75M for the next 5 ****ing years? Makes no sense. Richards is a nice piece on a good team, but not someone a team like the Leafs should spend any assets or capspace to bring in.

JackBurton
11-27-2014, 05:35 PM
What Richards has done means nothing to the Leafs in 2014'. Stay away.

number17
11-28-2014, 09:39 AM
Richards is a very, very bad idea - unless LA takes bad contract (i.e. Clarkson) back or give us one of their better prospects ... in any case, I don't think we have the cap space to take that contract anyways, so it's a moot point.

And with the OTL last night, (and I watched that game ... EDM didn't play that poorly but like most teams on a losing streak, they found a way to lose it) EDM's skid hits 8. As accustomed to losing as the city may be, this is beyond bad and management might have to do something more drastic. Problem is, not only is EDM management terrible in building a winner, they are also delusional and overvalue their own young players. The fact they thought Perron could get them a top 2 C tells you something ... so I really don't think there's a trade to be made.

Which is too bad, because Toronto and Edmonton do have some pieces that can make a good trade for both clubs.

I have interest in Eberle, Schultz (who was a healthy scratch last night) ... and the Oil change gotta have some interest in Reimer, one of our D (Franson, Gardiner ... ) and last I heard they liked Clarkson so much they offered more than us.

MyNameIsJonas
11-28-2014, 10:18 AM
The last thing the leafs D needs is Schultz

Hoss
11-28-2014, 10:37 AM
I know there have been alot of people here who have constantly shat on Franson, but he has played very well so far this season. His points are needed badly from the back end and he has worked well with Dion. The fact that he is a right handed shot lends me to think the leafs will pay to keep him.

I can't see him being let go right now... not with what UFA's there are on D and his play.

IF they were to trade him to the Oil, at the deadline, Shultz + + could be had... and the only reason I say Shultz would be to see if you could get Gardiner happy with his old college buddy. That would be a very young, mobile defense and sprinkle in some vets like Dion, Robidas and Pollack and you have a decent blend of youth and experience and offense and defense.

Next years core...
Phaneuf Reilly
Gardiner Robidas
Polack Shultz

number17
11-28-2014, 10:45 AM
I don't disagree Schultz isn't the biggest need on the Leafs D, but he has plenty of raw skills and talent, and is very young so that's always a piece to have, he can develop into a good building block in 1-2 years time. Obviously, if we make the trade, Eberle is the key here, not Schultz.

Franson is a tough decision. First of all, he's been a ~ consistent 40-50 points dman, and even if you completely ignore everything else, 40-50 points dmen don't grow on trees in this league, and that alone is worth quite something.

Franson's problem all along has been his hockey IQ and his decision on the ice. At times he's been a turnover machine and a complete mess in defensive zone coverage. Part of that is the fault of the system (Carlyle) but he also bears a lot of responsibilities too. Thing is, at 27, he is still relatively young, and this season under Horachek, he seems to be finally putting it together. And if he does, then he's gonna be one of the top dmen in the league cause he does have all the tools - size, shot, speed ... he's got it all.

The other problem with Franson is, he's turning UFA this summer. Leafs fans and all that, but this hasn't helped the Leafs re-sign him as an RFA in the past. With the kinda number he's putting up this season, he can EASILY demand a $6M x multi year contract in the off-season, if not more. How often do you see a 27 year old 45-50 points dman hitting the UFA market?!

So if the Leafs decide he's to be part of our future, and believe he is indeed finally putting it together, we've gotta re-sign him soon. If we don't, then we'll have to trade him. He is worth quite a lot, especially close to trade deadline, we cannot afford to let him walk.

Deckie007
11-28-2014, 10:47 AM
Schultz would be such a bad idea here. Dude is straight up awful in his own zone. We don't need another Dman that makes questionable decisions. He'd be the fans whipping boy shortly after being acquired. Franson is a good dman and everyone hates him, imagine what the fans would think of Schultz.

oscarheyman
11-28-2014, 10:57 AM
Schultz would be such a bad idea here. Dude is straight up awful in his own zone. We don't need another Dman that makes questionable decisions. He'd be the fans whipping boy shortly after being acquired. Franson is a good dman and everyone hates him, imagine what the fans would think of Schultz.

He's like that because he plays like he doesn't give a **** about the play without the puck (and more concerned with inflating his own personal stats). Normally I'd cut him a fair bit of slack given the circus he's in - but he willingly signed to be with the Oilers, so he knew what he was getting himself into.

About time he was a healthy scratch - clearly the "kid gloves treatment" ain't working with him.

Deckie007
11-28-2014, 11:02 AM
Randy's "system" is not what he needs either. Maybe with a different coach he'd be interesting, but I'd pass with Carlyle behind the bench.

oscarheyman
11-28-2014, 11:10 AM
Randy's "system" is not what he needs either. Maybe with a different coach he'd be interesting, but I'd pass with Carlyle behind the bench.

Probably but in his defense, with the better Leafs blueline - he wouldn't get the same ES minutes (they'd be better able to "shelter" his minutes). No way should he be getting the most ES minutes on even that awful Oilers blueline (but that's Eakins for you....)

zeke
11-28-2014, 11:26 AM
I wouldn't bother adding more depth dmen. Our pipeline looks good right now.

Metalleaf
11-28-2014, 11:54 AM
+1

Loov, Nilsson, Percy, Granberg, Holzer >> Schultz.

Metalleaf
11-28-2014, 11:55 AM
And in a years time add Valiev to that list.

LeafGm
11-28-2014, 12:10 PM
Yep. Unless we're talking about picking up another legit top-pairing defenseman, we're good.

We don't need any depth guys or reclamation projects at the moment.

Killer93
11-28-2014, 01:19 PM
Apparently the debate within Leafs management is whether to extend Franson or use him as bait at the deadline. Other names which could move between now and draft day include Lupul, Gardiner, and Kadri.

LeafGm
11-28-2014, 02:50 PM
Franson's a tough call. I loved the guy in the lockout-shortened year (particularly in the playoffs), hated the guy last year, and then he's back to looking pretty solid this year, while scoring at a almost a 60 point pace thus far. With how tough all of his contract negotiations have been so far though, it's scary to think what kind of contract the guy's going to ask for as a UFA. I'd think that he'll at least ask for a Matt Niskanen-esque contract: 6 or 7 years in length, at around $6M per season. I'm not sure that's a deal I could live with for Franson, particularly with the salary cap not slated to go up much, if at all this summer.

Kadri and Gardiner both shouldn't be going anywhere. Gardiner has looked like poop so far, but since we just signed him long-term, I'd like to see him get this season and next to show what he can do. He may be struggling a bit under the expectations of that contract extension. Kadri's points aren't really there thus far, but I don't think him scoring at a near-PPG pace in the lockout-shortened year was a mirage. That offensive talent is still there. Other areas of his game are improved as well. He's been responsible defensively so far this year, his faceoff numbers are better, and we're seeing more of the physical version of Nazem Kadri lately.

As for Lupul...I'm at the point now where I wouldn't care much if we traded him. He was mediocre at best last year, he's contributed virtually no offense so far this year, and the guy still misses time due to injury as frequently as ever. I hope he gives me a reason to change my mind now that he's back in the lineup, but I'm doubtful.

Metalleaf
11-28-2014, 03:07 PM
I'd sign this year's Franson but not last year's Franson...if you move Gardiner, then keep Franson.

Volcanologist
11-28-2014, 03:12 PM
Franson has been good so far this year but was brutal last season. Too inconsistent and has always been a tough sign. Will likely demand too much as usual. I would only consider keeping Franson if you're not planning on giving both Gardiner and Rielly top 4 roles.

Kadri and Gardiner shouldn't be going anywhere...but we're not going to get a lot in a trade for guys like Reimer and Lupul and there will very likely be changes to what is now considered the core in the offseason once Shanahan has had the year to evaluate. One of them is probably gone.

Lupul is probably gone at the deadline if we're out of it or sometime before July 1. With Nylander entering the top 6 next season, the current incarnation of Zoolander can be replaced by a much younger and cheaper (and hopefully healthier) player. Still can't believe how good that guy was for a year and a half and it seems to have completely vanished.

Leafin'
11-28-2014, 03:15 PM
I think Lupul is still good. he needs to get in the groove of things. A year ago people here were ready to give him the captaincy.

I really have no idea how this team will improve. You have to take chances somewhere.

zeke
11-28-2014, 03:26 PM
Lupul was dynamite pre-injury this year, despite the lack of points.

LeafOfFaith
11-28-2014, 08:21 PM
He always looks good, just can't stay healthy.

I love him, but have no use at the end of the day for chronically injury prone guys.

CTheBigPicture
11-29-2014, 06:31 AM
Ennis scores on an amazing no-look backhand shot: http://youtu.be/mUBkG7Vp62U

Habspatrol
11-29-2014, 12:05 PM
Awesome goal... maybe should have been disallowed though. He hits Price on his way through the crease turning him sideways and making it almost impossible to make the save.

Deckie007
11-29-2014, 12:29 PM
Pretty sure that was Ennis' awesomeness that blew him over. Or Emelin's suckiness. One or the other.

CTheBigPicture
12-03-2014, 09:34 AM
What's wrong with this guy?

http://globalnews.ca/news/1703652/evander-kane-instagram-pic-sparks-instant-response-kaning-meme/

LeafGm
12-03-2014, 09:45 AM
What's wrong with him? Nothing that I can see, except for his disappointing stats thus far this season.

Deckie007
12-03-2014, 10:13 AM
Guilty of being young, black and rich. You stop that Evander Kane!

Volcanologist
12-03-2014, 10:21 AM
The problem is clearly his uppityness.