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Montana
04-01-2010, 07:21 PM
Halak is arguably up there.

The 3 best goalies in the NHL this year have been Miller, Vokoun and Halak/Bryzgalov.

Lundqvists, Luongo > Halak.




As great as Halak has been this year, it's only over 38 starts......guys like Lundqvist and Luongo are putting up similar numbers in considerably more starts (60+)......being able to play great over the long haul is what determines who's the best, imo.

For guys with similar # of starts to Halak....it's arguable that both Tuuka Rask and Jimmy Howard have had better seasons as well.

mbow30
04-01-2010, 07:38 PM
this is ****ing ridiculous. the isles are up 3-0 over philly in the first.

Metalleaf
04-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Philly's hosed because they are starting Brian Boucher....I'm pretty sure Toskala would be an upgrade at this point.

LeafGm
04-01-2010, 08:04 PM
this is ****ing ridiculous. the isles are up 3-0 over philly in the first.
Not too surprising. What will be surprising is if the Flyers still actually make the playoffs at this point. And even if they do, with their joke of a goaltending situation, they'll be the easiest first-round fodder in the league.

What Holmgren was thinking not bringing in another goalie at the deadline, I'll never be able to figure out. He pretty much wrote off his team's season right there.

uncus
04-01-2010, 09:50 PM
ala bobby clarke

JohnnyHolmes
04-01-2010, 10:41 PM
Jason Blake with a 5 point night.

hockeylover
04-01-2010, 10:53 PM
... a little late on that one.

hockeylover
04-04-2010, 04:58 PM
http://web4.twitpic.com/img/82714506-a78cf1f649fde5cb6891f64d78dd4e50.4bb8fd27-scaled.jpg

Habspatrol
04-04-2010, 07:44 PM
Lundqvists, Luongo > Halak.




As great as Halak has been this year, it's only over 38 starts......guys like Lundqvist and Luongo are putting up similar numbers in considerably more starts (60+)......being able to play great over the long haul is what determines who's the best, imo.

For guys with similar # of starts to Halak....it's arguable that both Tuuka Rask and Jimmy Howard have had better seasons as well.

Not sure what the stats were like 3 days ago but as of right now Halak's numbers are pretty damn good.

42gp 26-12-3 2.31gaa .927sv% really there are only a couple guys in the league with as good of numbers. Obviously it would be more impressive over the course of 65+ games but it's a decent sample size.

Wayward DP
04-04-2010, 09:49 PM
Yah Halak is really really good. He's been playing at too high a level for too long for me to discount his #s because of sample size. That said, he still hasn't proven he can carry the load of a full time #1 in the league, but I see no reason to believe he couldn't; he simply hasn't been given a chance yet. The playoffs will be an interesting test.

Could be Halak vs. Miller; two of the game's best. I think I might honestly pick the Habs in that series.

Habspatrol
04-04-2010, 10:07 PM
I like the way we match up against the Sabres... especially after last nights games.


Halak has really changed my opinion of him. I always thought he was pretty good, but he's really outplaying even my highest expectations this year.

leafman101
04-04-2010, 10:07 PM
Lundqvists, Luongo > Halak.




As great as Halak has been this year, it's only over 38 starts......guys like Lundqvist and Luongo are putting up similar numbers in considerably more starts (60+)......being able to play great over the long haul is what determines who's the best, imo.

For guys with similar # of starts to Halak....it's arguable that both Tuuka Rask and Jimmy Howard have had better seasons as well.

Halak is having a better season than all those guys aside from Rask, who gets a much easier ride given the way that team plays.

But fine, add Rask to the Halak/Bryzgalov category, and with Miller and Vokoun those are the 5 best goalies in the NHL this year.

hairnova
04-04-2010, 10:10 PM
I like the way we match up against the Sabres...

Especially if Vanek and Connolly remain out.

JaysCyYoung
04-04-2010, 10:10 PM
1. Ryan Miller
2. Ilya Bryzgalov
3. Tomas Vokoun
4. Jimmy Howard
5. Jaroslav Halak/Tuuka Rask

Would be my top five list for goaltenders in the NHL this year.

MindzEye
04-04-2010, 11:56 PM
1) Miller
2) Vokoun
3) Bryzy-E
4) Rask
5) Halak

Montana
04-05-2010, 12:12 AM
1) Miller
2) Vokoun
3) Lundqvist
3) Bryz
5) Halak/Rask/Howard

MindzEye
04-05-2010, 12:15 AM
Rask & Halak have both played 42 games this season...I have a hard time attaching the "small sample size" argument to guys who are both going to play ~45 games and post SV%s around .925-.930

Montana
04-05-2010, 12:58 AM
For me, it's not so much about it being a 'small sample size'.......more to do with the rigors of being a legit #1 goalie and the toll logging 70+ starts involves, including playing back to backs, two weeks straight, etc etc.

A goalie that can log 70+ games and give me .920 sv% over that span, is more valuable in my mind than a goalie posting .925 over 40+.

mbow30
04-05-2010, 01:59 AM
you can get beneath that, too.

goalies that play in 40 games don't play as many games consecutively. and there are a lot of goalies that seem to wilt under a heavier work load. i don't know if it's physical fatigue, mental fatigue or the inability to get yourself ready mentally to play in a hockey game on an every day basis, but there are some guys who are absolute gems as spot starters or in split roles, but who are rather mediocre if they are forced to play three games in a week.

examples? huet comes to mind. manny fernandez is another. although his numbers don't necessarily flesh it out i think that biron should be in that category as well.

Habspatrol
04-05-2010, 08:48 AM
There are also goalies that seem to thrive on playing more and more games. Halak hasn't played 70 games in a full season but he's been playing that role for a couple months now including having an excellent Olympics in the middle of that and he only seems to be getting better.

There are VERY few goalies that play 70+ games a year. If you can get 60 or so games out of your starter and 20ish out of a quality back up you will be in good shape.

As a matter of fact I don't think many of those 70+ start goalies have a lot of playoff success. Brodeur did earlier in his career, but at this point I think he would be better served playing 60 regular season games and being more fresh come playoff time.

habs25th
04-05-2010, 08:55 AM
For me, it's not so much about it being a 'small sample size'.......more to do with the rigors of being a legit #1 goalie and the toll logging 70+ starts involves, including playing back to backs, two weeks straight, etc etc.

A goalie that can log 70+ games and give me .920 sv% over that span, is more valuable in my mind than a goalie posting .925 over 40+.

True.

Of course on the Habs given who our backup is we don't really need a 70+ games starter but I get your point.

leafman101
04-05-2010, 09:03 AM
I don't really think playing more games is a huge factor in how good a goalie is playing this season. Its not an MVP vote. Playing worse over more games shouldn't mean that you a playing better.

corksens
04-05-2010, 10:23 AM
The Habs have a huge horseshoe up their ass with goalies.

I'd love to see that generally underwhelming team play with a goalie that isn't posting .910+ SV%'s.

Habspatrol
04-05-2010, 12:49 PM
I'd love to see the Sens play without any of their best players and see how well they'd do.

Obviously that's a retarded statement, but it didn't stop you.

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 01:01 PM
I don't understand punishing an organization for consistently developing star goalies. Obviously it's a fickle position and there is some degree of luck involved but the Habs must be doing something right given that they've had Roy, Thibault, Theodore, Vokoun, Price, and Halak all emerge from their system over the past two decades.

corksens
04-05-2010, 01:53 PM
I'd love to see the Sens play without any of their best players and see how well they'd do.

Obviously that's a retarded statement, but it didn't stop you.Heh. You don't get it. Of course goaltending is a part of the team, but for years you've have consistent top-echelon goaltending.

Roy, Theo, Price, Halak.

Is there another franchise who has had as much luck with goalies panning out for their team?

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 02:06 PM
New Jersey? ;)

Montana
04-05-2010, 03:17 PM
I don't really think playing more games is a huge factor in how good a goalie is playing this season.

I suspect JFJ shared that opinion when analysing Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskala's best seasons prior to trading for them.

I'm not saying Halak and Rask aren't playing unbelievable, they are.....but playing at that level over 40 games and sustaining it when playing two/three weeks worth of games straight, playing back to backs, etc etc is something all together different.

When Halak and Rask log 65-70 starts as true #1's, and post .920 sv%'s over that stretch, I'll be even more impressed than I am with their current seasons. And I won't be surprised in the least if/when they do, they're both incredible goalies.

Montana
04-05-2010, 03:32 PM
There are also goalies that seem to thrive on playing more and more games.

Precisely what gets them ranked higher.


There are VERY few goalies that play 70+ games a year. If you can get 60 or so games out of your starter and 20ish out of a quality back up you will be in good shape.

Lundqvist, Miller, Brodeur, Anderson, Kipper,Nabakov, Bryz, Luongo will all either reach 70 gp, or be just a game or two short.

Craig Anderson's a great example of my belief.....his .924 sv% last in 31 games was incredible, and he had a similar sv % this year over 40 games.....now as he closes in on 70 games it's at .917

Playing more games like that take a toll.....the fact Miller, Lundqvist, Kipper, Bryz, and Vokoun can sustain their level of elite play over that many games is what makes me deem their season's 'better'.

Habspatrol
04-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Heh. You don't get it. Of course goaltending is a part of the team, but for years you've have consistent top-echelon goaltending.

Roy, Theo, Price, Halak.

Is there another franchise who has had as much luck with goalies panning out for their team?
And the Sens have drafted better forwards... what's your point? They are all players on the team that contribute to a team's overall play.
If you want to take away the Habs good goaltending then I'd like to take away the Sens good forwards.

No matter how you look at it you are saying.... "you guys wouldn't be so good if you didn't have your good players."

leafman101
04-05-2010, 03:37 PM
I suspect JFJ shared that opinion when analysing Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskala's best seasons prior to trading for them.



I doubt it. They didn't play good period.

I'm just saying if a guy plays at an A level for 45-50 games, and another guy plays at a B level for 70 games, the first guy is still playing better in the games he is playing.

And on another note, obviously having a workhorse can be advantageous, but thats no reason to punish a guy for having a 5th overall pick, and very good, or last years vezna winner as back ups.

King Henrik wouldn't play 70 games on Boston on Montreal either. And that wouldn't make him worse of a goalie.

Its not like these guys are playing 20-30 games. They are playing a starters load.

Montana
04-05-2010, 03:38 PM
As a matter of fact I don't think many of those 70+ start goalies have a lot of playoff success. Brodeur did earlier in his career, but at this point I think he would be better served playing 60 regular season games and being more fresh come playoff time.

Exactly....it's harder playing at a high level the more and more games you play, I agree.

corksens
04-05-2010, 03:47 PM
And the Sens have drafted better forwards... what's your point? They are all players on the team that contribute to a team's overall play.
If you want to take away the Habs good goaltending then I'd like to take away the Sens good forwards.

No matter how you look at it you are saying.... "you guys wouldn't be so good if you didn't have your good players."Finding good forwards isn't exactly hard.

Finding a good starting goalie is very very hard, let alone finding 4 or 5 consecutive ones. Part of it is an organization thing, but part of it us luck, and you've clearly had alot of it.

Montana
04-05-2010, 03:56 PM
I doubt it. They didn't play good period.

Really?.....Raycroft's .926 in 50+ games, and Toskala's .930 sv% in 30 games were likely the key ereasons for JFJ deciding to trade for them.

Near carbon copies of the stastistical performances by Halak and Rask this year......only difference is, I actually believe in Rask and Halak.


I'm just saying if a guy plays at an A level for 45-50 games, and another guy plays at a B level for 70 games, the first guy is still playing better in the games he is playing.

and a guy who plays 1 game and post's a shutout is playing better than all them.....but I wouldn't deem him to be having the best season either.

Rask and Halak are likely to play in 25-30 less games than the guys I listed higher, over 50% more games than they've played this year.

It's my belief those additional games played have a significant weight to them.

leafman101
04-05-2010, 04:01 PM
Really?.....Raycroft's .926 in 50+ games, and Toskala's .930 sv% in 30 games were likely the key ereasons for JFJ deciding to trade for them.

Near carbon copies of the stastistical performances by Halak and Rask this year......only difference is, I actually believe in Rask and Halak.


No. The difference is that Raycroft had an .879 sv % the year before he was aquired, and Toskala had seasons of .908 and .901. The difference is those guys proved they sucked. 30 games, 40 games, 50 games, 70 games, whatever. They sucked.

Had nothing to do with an increased workload.



and a guy who plays 1 game and post's a shutout is playing better than all them.....but I wouldn't deem him to be having the best season either.

Rask and Halak are likely to play in 25-30 less games than the guys I listed higher, over 50% more games than they've played this year.

It's my belief those additional games played have a significant weight to them.

And its my belief that other than having a shitty back up Halak has been better than Lundqvist and co by a pretty wide margin.

He's been a flat out dominant goalie this season.

And you forget that he has only played ~45 games because he had to steal the job from a former 5th overall pick who is having a pretty good season.

leafman101
04-05-2010, 04:05 PM
And Im not knocking Lundqvist, he is probably my favourite goalie in the league.

And really I think he plays too much.

Playing guys 70+ games isn't good IMO. They wear down. Even Marty. Its a season killer a lot of the time.

60-65 is plenty.

Montana
04-05-2010, 04:07 PM
And on another note, obviously having a workhorse can be advantageous, but thats no reason to punish a guy for having a 5th overall pick, and very good, or last years vezna winner as back ups.King

No one's punishing them , their feats are incredibly inpressive.....I simply put more weight in the difference between 40 games, with a break once or twice every two weeks...not playing both ends of backs, etc etc and playing 65-70 and not having the benefits of those nights off.


Henrik wouldn't play 70 games on Boston on Montreal either. And that wouldn't make him worse of a goalie.

You're right it wouldn't, it'd likely just lead to him having a higher sv%.....and in him being lower in my rankings than some who played at a .920 level for 70 games


Its not like these guys are playing 20-30 games. They are playing a starters load.

Right they're just playing 20-30 less games.....to me, that plays a factor in my rankings, to you, it doesn't. *shrugs*

leafman101
04-05-2010, 04:15 PM
I understand the idea behind putting weight on games played, but Lundvists stats are worse because he has had a higher percentage of bad games than Halak. It would be one thing if the numbers were close, but one guy is putting up elite numbers and the other guy isn't.

Maybe if Halak played 70 games he would have more bad games, and the numbers would be closer, and maybe if Henrik played less he'd have less bad games and better numbers, but neither of those things are the case.

Halak has been more consistently better than Lundqvist, and most other goalies in the league this year. That has to count for something.

axlsalinger
04-05-2010, 04:24 PM
No starter should play more than 65 games, in my opinion. There may be the rare exception due to close races late in the year, but 70+ is too much in almost every case.

Habsy
04-05-2010, 04:30 PM
You get my pm Axl?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-05-2010, 04:33 PM
I haven't gone in depth on it, but I'd guess a goalie's SV% doesn't change very much going from ~40-45 games played, to ~60-65 games played.

I could be wrong though.

Leafovic
04-05-2010, 04:40 PM
I haven't gone in depth on it, but I'd guess a goalie's SV% doesn't change very much going from ~40-45 games played, to ~60-65 games played.

I could be wrong though.

You and I had this debate when the Leafs acquired Toskala.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-05-2010, 04:50 PM
You and I had this debate when the Leafs acquired Toskala.

Toskala:
05/06: 37 gms, 901 SV%
06/07: 38 gms, 908 SV%
07/08: 66 gms, 904 SV%


Toskala turned out to be the same goalie in Toronto (905ish guy) despite a bigger workload. Then he got hurt and lost his confidence.

Leafovic
04-05-2010, 04:56 PM
Toskala:
05/06: 37 gms, 901 SV%
06/07: 38 gms, 908 SV%
07/08: 66 gms, 904 SV%


Toskala turned out to be the same goalie in Toronto (905ish guy) despite a bigger workload. Then he got hurt and lost his confidence.

That wasn't the main part of the argument. I was arguing that Toskala was never really a #1 goalie, and as a result, he didn't have the pressure associated with being #1. I think that is why he ultimately failed and that is why I didn't want him in T.O. I think its similar to what happens to teams that are out of the playoff picture and then go on huge winning streaks - the Leafs alone have done that last few years.

So I'd be very wary of these goalies in these types of situations(where two goalies are both legit starters) There is almost no pressure there.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-05-2010, 04:59 PM
That wasn't the main part of the argument. I was arguing that Toskala was never really a #1 goalie, and as a result, he didn't have the pressure associated with being #1. I think that is why he ultimately failed and that is why I didn't want him in T.O. I think its similar to what happens to teams that are out of the playoff picture and then go on huge winning streaks - the Leafs alone have done that last few years.



He seemed to handle the pressure just fine in his first year in Toronto as he pretty much performed like he did in SJ the previous two years.

After the first season, he just fell apart due to injuries and confidence imo.

axlsalinger
04-05-2010, 05:01 PM
You get my pm Axl?Just sent you a reply.

leafman101
04-05-2010, 05:03 PM
Yeah. Both Toskala and Raycroft preformed exactly the same the year before and after joining Toronto.

Unfortunately they sucked in all of those years.

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 05:08 PM
Toskala actually had a .908 save percentage going into his final start of the season against the Senators as well. If it were not for the decision of that fool Maurice he would matched his save percentage on a vastly superior Sharks team without question. I'm with Player regarding the fact that it was mainly injuries and a failure to rebound (which in turn put the press and fans in the other corner against him) that caused Toskala's problems in years two and three.

Leafovic
04-05-2010, 05:08 PM
.

After the first season, he just fell apart due to injuries and confidence imo.

That's the thing..confidence is what I'm referring to. Didn't he seem pretty sensitive and defensive to remarks when people thought he was at fault? I remember one instance where Wilson called him out specifically.

Now what if that happened in SJ? No big deal. Nobody blames you because they move on to Nabakov because they view him as capable and that's that. If you do better than Nabokov, then you can look at your team and say "look ****ers, you guys think Naby is a great goalie but i have the better stats" ie its the rest of the teams fault. You do better than some backup in T.O...your not proving your case. You f' up in that situation, you are getting the blame because nobody is as capable to replace you. It's all up to you.

Totally totally different situation.

Leafovic
04-05-2010, 05:12 PM
And the only reason I say this is because people thought we could win with Toskala. Even if he kept the same save percentage, it was clear with his mental makeup, we would not be able to. There are goalies with even better save percentages that killed their teams (ie Lalime) with horrible, back-breaking goals.

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 05:15 PM
Lalime didn't kill his teams so much as the Senators just couldn't ****ing score against the Leafs in the playoffs.

Leafovic
04-05-2010, 05:17 PM
Lalime didn't kill his teams so much as the Senators just couldn't ****ing score against the Leafs in the playoffs.

I think Sens fans and many others would disagree with you.

Remember those floaters he let in from Nieuwendyk? Still makes me laugh.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-05-2010, 05:22 PM
On an entirely different note, Barry Trotz is such a great coach and nobody ever talks about him.

He consistently has that team in contention despite a small budget and a lack of top end talent. Fowards are okay, but nothing great. Goaltending is good, but not elite. Blueline is really solid, but they don't have a Norris type player. Yet, he's closing in on another playoff birth and a 100 point season. Great coach.

leafman101
04-05-2010, 05:23 PM
But Lalime wasn't a good goalie period. He was a .905-.910 goaltender in Ottawa.

It has nothing to do with not being able to handle certain situations. He just wasn't that good.

leafman101
04-05-2010, 05:24 PM
On an entirely different note, Barry Trotz is such a great coach and nobody ever talks about him.

He consistently has that team in contention despite a small budget and a lack of top end talent. Fowards are okay, but nothing great. Goaltending is good, but not elite. Blueline is really solid, but they don't have a Norris type player. Yet, he's closing in on another playoff birth and a 100 point season. Great coach.

Yeah. Him and Poile are two of the most underrated GM's/coaches in the league. Them and Regier and Ruff, though Ruff does get some credit.

I'm pretty sure neither of those teams have real scouting staffs either.

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 05:27 PM
I think Sens fans and many others would disagree with you.

Remember those floaters he let in from Nieuwendyk? Still makes me laugh.

That's not even the salient point. If the Sens could score at all against the Leafs in the playoffs those goals wouldn't have been the difference to begin with. But they couldn't. And like 101 noted, Lalime was a middling goaltender to begin with. He never had a season where he was Vezina-calibre or even in the upper-echelon group of goaltenders in the league, and he played in only one All-Star Game in close to seven seasons with the team. He just wasn't that good.

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 05:28 PM
Whoever is Nashville's leading scout for defencemen is brilliant. There isn't a team in the league with a better track-record when it comes to drafting blue-liners.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-05-2010, 05:28 PM
Nashville's top scorer is Hornqvist -- who has 51 points.

To steal a line from Pat Burns, I wouldn't know this guy if I hit him with my car.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-05-2010, 05:29 PM
Whoever is Nashville's leading scout for defencemen is brilliant. There isn't a team in the league with a better track-record when it comes to drafting blue-liners.

That's why I know Ryan Ellis is going to be great.

hehehehehe

Habspatrol
04-05-2010, 05:32 PM
No one's punishing them , their feats are incredibly inpressive.....I simply put more weight in the difference between 40 games, with a break once or twice every two weeks...not playing both ends of backs, etc etc and playing 65-70 and not having the benefits of those nights off.



You're right it wouldn't, it'd likely just lead to him having a higher sv%.....and in him being lower in my rankings than some who played at a .920 level for 70 games



Right they're just playing 20-30 less games.....to me, that plays a factor in my rankings, to you, it doesn't. *shrugs*

I realize that you have not tried to diminish what Halak has done this year at all. How much weight do you put in the fact that Halak wasn't playing much early on but has been playing games at a 70ish game pace for like 3 months now plus he played every game for his Olympic team?

I'd say he is showing that he's able to play a lot of games. Not sure if he'll fatigue or not, but so far so good.

Leafovic
04-05-2010, 05:35 PM
That's not even the salient point. If the Sens could score at all against the Leafs in the playoffs those goals wouldn't have been the difference to begin with. But they couldn't. And like 101 noted, Lalime was a middling goaltender to begin with. He never had a season where he was Vezina-calibre or even in the upper-echelon group of goaltenders in the league, and he played in only one All-Star Game in close to seven seasons with the team. He just wasn't that good.

Well let's just agree then that both the Sens and Leafs made a bad decisions with their goalies. Goaltending is too important of a position to rely on "middling" goaltenders as you said.

There is too many factors that come into play otherwise.

leafman101
04-05-2010, 05:36 PM
Yeah. Goaltending has absolutely killed the Leafs the last 5 years.

Finally it looks to be fixed though.

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 05:38 PM
That's why I know Ryan Ellis is going to be great.

hehehehehe

I personally think that Charles Olivier-Roussel is the gem from last season's draft by Nashville. Book that in a few seasons.

Ryan Ellis
Charles Olivier-Roussel
Roman Josi
Jonathan Blum
Ryan Parent
Cody Franson
Ryan Suter
Shea Weber (drafted in the same year as Suter!)
Dan Hamhuis

That's honestly ridiculous.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-05-2010, 05:40 PM
They've done a very good job with goaltending as well -- Vokoun, Mason, Rinne, Ellis etc. They got these guys for either nothing, or very little.

If that team could add some 1st line talent upfront, they'd could be a serious threat.

JaysCyYoung
04-05-2010, 05:40 PM
Well let's just agree then that both the Sens and Leafs made a bad decisions with their goalies. Goaltending is too important of a position to rely on "middling" goaltenders as you said.

There is too many factors that come into play otherwise.

Agreed 100 percent. And it's not even that I am defending Lalime so much as I don't think it really applies to your analogy. The Sens really should have gone out that season and got a veteran goaltender without question. The one time that they were actively proactive in doing so, Hasek put up Vezina Trophy quality numbers for them being getting injured at the Olympics. I actually think that Ottawa wins the Stanley Cup and represents the Eastern Conference instead of Carolina that season if Dom's groin is intact. But it's such a tremendously important position that no team can afford to go into the post-season with a sub-par option in net. Philly is going to get destroyed by whoever they play in the first round, as a more recent example, even though on paper they match up quite well to a highly-ranked team like Buffalo. The difference is goaltending quality.

MyNameIsJonas
04-05-2010, 06:17 PM
Mark my words...Nashville IMO is that team, that team that no one expects to win in the post season but for whatever reason they do.

THey got a great D, and a nice goalie....Especially if they land PHX in the first round...i like em alot.

Montana
04-05-2010, 06:55 PM
I realize that you have not tried to diminish what Halak has done this year at all. How much weight do you put in the fact that Halak wasn't playing much early on but has been playing games at a 70ish game pace for like 3 months now plus he played every game for his Olympic team?

I'd say he is showing that he's able to play a lot of games. Not sure if he'll fatigue or not, but so far so good.

In terms of my feelings of him being able to be a goalie who can log 60+ games going forward and still put up elite numbers, I put alot of stock into how he's handled the increased workload.......I just can't value it as much as guys who have dealt with that kind of workload all year.....like Miller, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Kipper, Bryz, etc.

But I've seen enough from Halak to believe he's quite capable of being a .915-.920 type goalie over 60-70 games.....just like Craig Anderson has been this year after posting Halak type numbers last year in 30+ games for Florida.

Volcanologist
04-07-2010, 11:43 AM
The Flames were officially eliminated from playoff contention last night. Despite the heroic (combined 6 goals in 25 games) efforts of super-duper underrated top-6 forwards Stajan and Hagman.

worm
04-07-2010, 11:48 AM
Stajan played well. Hagman sucked.

Was fitting that White fumbled a pass in the last few seconds as the flames tried to tie it.

Iggy was the bigger problem with that team. He didnt have a good year and he took full responsibility.

leafman101
04-07-2010, 11:50 AM
But I've seen enough from Halak to believe he's quite capable of being a .915-.920 type goalie over 60-70 games.....just like Craig Anderson has been this year after posting Halak type numbers last year in 30+ games for Florida.

The thing about Anderson, is he is a 29 year old who haden't played 40 games in a single season since 2003-04, and only played more than 40 games in a season once since junior in 2000-01.

He just flat out wore down from seeing a workload he hasn't seen in 10 years.

However, though the first 50 games of the year he had a .924 save percentage. It wasn't an issue of not being able to play 3 out of 4, or 4 out of every 5 games. It was an issue of falling apart after 50+ games.

Halak doesn't have the same issue. He'll play close to 50 games this year, he played 44 games in 06-07 and was playing a heavy load in junior in 04-05.

He's not a guy who has played 20-30 games a year for 10 years.

corksens
04-07-2010, 11:52 AM
There are a couple of places to lay blame.

Conroy's 15 points season
Bouwmeester's meager 20 points
Iginla drying up in the 2nd half
Trades not panning out.

leafman101
04-07-2010, 11:53 AM
Iggy was the bigger problem with that team. He didnt have a good year and he took full responsibility.

When ALL of your top players have poor offensive years, it usually means the coach is the problem.

Volcanologist
04-07-2010, 11:59 AM
Yeah, people think PHANEUF is an overrated overpaid player?? What does that make J-Blow? What a disappointment.

worm
04-07-2010, 12:23 PM
I cant see Sutter keeping his job. He has gone through a lot of coaches and has nothing for young players.

Im guessing Iggy and Kipper will be traded in the next year or 2.

hockeylover
04-07-2010, 12:27 PM
I for one am SHOCKED that the Flames brought in 1/4 of this year's Leafs and that wasn't enough to make the playoffs.

worm
04-07-2010, 12:29 PM
And 1/4 of the rangers
and an oiler
haha

worm
04-07-2010, 12:30 PM
sutter tried his best gainey impression

Leafovic
04-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Yeah, never thought Brent Sutter was that great of a coach. I remember saying awhile back that he seemed a lot like Maurice. One of those guys that brings his best players down to the level of the worst players by asking his elite guys to play a simplified game as well...and all that does is limit your best players ability.

acescanuck
04-07-2010, 12:32 PM
There are a couple of places to lay blame.

Conroy's 15 points season
Bouwmeester's meager 20 points
Iginla drying up in the 2nd half
Trades not panning out.

One more thing, how much does Sutter regret going with Jokinen over Cammellari?

Worst thing for the flames is they don't draft till the third round.

I am pretty happy Vancouver didn't throw nearly 7M at J-Bo for a solid 20 points.

worm
04-07-2010, 12:35 PM
Nucks learned from Sundin.

acescanuck
04-07-2010, 12:39 PM
Sundin is a different issue.... kind of. I say that because it would have sucked if he took the 2 year deal. We wouldn't be where we are. But on the single year, it didn't matter what we paid him. We weren't gonna spend the money anywhere else. All he cost was cash. An overpayment? Hell ya. But there was nothing to lose other than money. The experiment failed and thank Christ he didn't stay another year at 10M. We'd be pooched cap-wise.

zeke
04-07-2010, 12:56 PM
I've never understood why Calgary was always considered a "contender" since the lockout, when I could never see it based on their roster.

acescanuck
04-07-2010, 01:00 PM
Calgary is the one of, if not the only team still playing "pre-lockout" hockey.

Locke
04-07-2010, 01:14 PM
Their window has officially been shutdown.

Slammed shut.

The problem with them is that Sutter tried to reinvent the wheel every season-the year after the lockout they were a stingy hard-nosed defensive team with Vezina-calibre goaltending- bounced by Anaheim in the playoffs because they couldnt score and organize a solid transition game. The year after they bring some rookie coach and Tanguay, they scored a lot that year but struggled defensively. Same thing the following year but with a past his prime coach and Kipper starting to struggle.

Last year they traded for Cammi and Jokinen, and as a whole they were an elite offensive team but were mediocre positionally and defensively. They commited a lot of defensive break downs and Kipper did have 40 wins, but he wasnt as good as his stats indicated with a mediocre sv% just over .900.

This year Sutter tried to replicate the success of the 05-06 team-built from the D and hope that Kipper rebounds. They were respectable defensively, won (and lost) many tight games. Played a boring dump and chase style, they lacked offense because they had the same type of forwards up front, grinders with no hands, forwards who mostly shoot, lack of playmakers and too much complimentary forwards.

Kipper had a solid but not spectacular season, Bouw disappeared down the stretch, Regehr completely sucked and the trades that Sutter made didnt address their most pressing needs. They lacked offense and bring Higgins Kotalik and Hagman?

MyNameIsJonas
04-07-2010, 01:21 PM
The Flames need to clear house from top to bottom starting with the dinasour that is Darryl Sutter.

Along with Darryl can go brother Brent.

I think it's also time to seriously consider moving some of the main pieces on the team, specifically the larger contracts that are on it.

Kipper might have had a good enough year where you can move him. If you can. Then do so.

It might also be time to entertain the idea of dealing Iginla. His play has deteriorated each of the past 2 years as is the case with most power forwards. He still has a massive contract and IMO it would be wise to move a guy while you can still get a A-List elite crop of talent for him.

leafman101
04-07-2010, 01:34 PM
The funny thing is the biggest thing holding back the team the last couple years was that Kipper sucked.

And this year he has been good and everyone else sucked.

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-07-2010, 01:47 PM
Worst part is, as usual, Canadiens had to play them early in the year and lost both. If we played them now, at least we win one of them.

worm
04-07-2010, 02:01 PM
Worst part is...I was in Calgary as they beat the habs. Ugh. At least the girlfriend was happy.

Locke
04-07-2010, 02:13 PM
Habs lost to them 4-3 and 1-0. The first game they won mainly because their 4th line was better than ours, they scored 3 goals.

F uck UGL.

acescanuck
04-07-2010, 03:41 PM
Picture of the day:

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/2772546.bin

corksens
04-07-2010, 03:44 PM
I can't stand the Sutters.

mbow30
04-07-2010, 03:52 PM
I can't believe the Flames dumped Phaneuf because Regehr didn't like him.

What a stupid decision. Especially now that their defensive 'leader' is Bouwmeester, who couldn't lead a Jew to a concentration camp in Nazi Germany.

That team is so screwed and it's all Sutter's fault. You don't trade talents like Phaneuf; at least, not at 24. And when you do trade top talent you either do it for an equal talent, or clear the cap space and bring aboard picks and prospects. You don't trade elite talent for overpaid (or soon to be overpaid) second liners.

What a mistake.

worm
04-07-2010, 03:52 PM
Me either.

leafman101
04-07-2010, 04:01 PM
The problem with Sutter was he was a good coach, who was never a GM, gave up coaching to be the GM, and really isn't good at it.

Thats why you don't hire a GM because he rode a hot goalie to a Cinderella cup final run as a coach.

worm
04-07-2010, 04:05 PM
I thought Sutter was already the GM at that time.

leafman101
04-07-2010, 04:08 PM
Yeah you're right. But its more dramatic my way.

Wayward DP
04-07-2010, 04:08 PM
Yeah Sutter's f!cked that team for years to come it would appear. Not really much in terms of young talent either. If Iginla keeps slowing down like this they're going to have all kinda of trouble scoring in the future. I think Backlund is their only decent forward prospect (at least off the top of my head).

Kipper had a nice rebound year, but I still don't think he's that good. At least their D looks good on paper, but they ain't gettin' any younger.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Edmonton pass them in the standings next year depending on what goes down in the offseason.

worm
04-07-2010, 04:19 PM
Well...Gio and Jbo are the core of the blueline and they are young.

But they have nothing coming up the ranks.

acescanuck
04-07-2010, 04:21 PM
I think the only real D prospect they had, they sent to Toronto in the Phaneuf deal.

Wayward DP
04-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Well...Gio and Jbo are the core of the blueline and they are young.

But they have nothing coming up the ranks.

I'm not sure yet exactly how good Giordano is. And something seems to be off about JBo. Not sure what, may just be the fact that I don't think he's ever made the playoffs.

worm
04-07-2010, 04:40 PM
Gio is real good.

corksens
04-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Gio does look really good. But Jblow is a total non-gamer.

Just looks like he doesn't give a shit.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-07-2010, 04:49 PM
Ian White >

He has more heart in his stache than that entire blueline.

worm
04-07-2010, 05:08 PM
Regher has more heart than Ian White....but Regher has been bad for 2 years now.

worm
04-07-2010, 05:10 PM
I shouldnt say bad...just below expectations.

zeke
04-07-2010, 05:39 PM
White > Giordano

leafman101
04-09-2010, 10:33 PM
Colaiacovo is now back at a 40 point pace.

zeke
04-10-2010, 01:30 AM
heh. that's hilarious.

T.Kaberle (31, $4.25): 81gms, 7gls, 49pts, -18, 22:23 (82gms, 7gls, 50pts)
B.McCabe (34, $5.75): 80gms, 8gls, 42pts, -3, 23:15 (82gms, 8gls, 43pts)

P.Kubina (32, $5.00): 76gms, 6gls, 38pts, +0, 22:37 (82gms, 7gls, 41pts)
I.White (24, $0.85): 82gms, 13gls, 38pts, +9, 22:58 (82gms, 13gls, 38pts)

A.Stralman (22, $0.75): 73gms, 6gls, 34pts, -17, 20:29 (82gms, 7gls, 38pts)
C.Colaiacovo (26, $1.25): 66gms, 7gls, 32pts, +7, 17:14 (82gms, 9gls, 40pts)

Total: $17.85

What a crappy, untalented, overpaid defense corps we had.

LeafsFanInOttawa
04-10-2010, 02:04 AM
Hmm I'm currently looking at the standings, and I noticed that there will be many interesting games this weekend.

Let's just say Montreal beats us tomorrow, and the Burins win against the Hurricanes, both of these teams have now clinched a playoff berth. Now the final 8th position is temporarily held by the Philadelphia Flyers, who is also tied with the NY Rangers at 86 pts.

The Flyers and playing host to the NY Rangers on Sunday, pretty much whoever wins the game gets into the playoffs.

Another scenario to think about, is if we beat Montreal tomorrow, and somehow the Rangers and Flyers game goes into OT with the Rangers winning, both of these teams will clinch the playoffs with Montreal looking in. (I think this is correct, the Flyers have 1 more win compared to Montreal, which is the first tie-breaker?)

Regardless, we are in for a good hockey weekend.

acescanuck
04-10-2010, 03:01 AM
I think you got it.

Tomorrow night is a big night for the Habs. A win will take their fate away from the Rangers/Flyers and who knows, as important as that game is, I think knowing the outcome of the Leafs/Habs will be an advantage to them, like say the Habs lose in regulation, and on Sunday, say the Flyers and Rangers are tied mid third, they just may be content to drag it to OT. Who knows? It should be fun.

leafman101
04-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Don't look now but the Wings hit 100 points last night, after it looked like they might not even make the playoffs a month ago.

They are 15-3-2 since the Olympics (a 131 point pace).

JaysCyYoung
04-10-2010, 02:04 PM
Howard is giving the Wings their best goaltending since Hasek back in 2001-02.

leafman101
04-10-2010, 09:11 PM
Stamkos hit 50.

2nd or 3rd youngest player to do it.

JaysCyYoung
04-10-2010, 09:15 PM
I believe that puts him up there with Jimmy Carson.

leafman101
04-10-2010, 09:50 PM
Yep.

1. Gretz - 18
2. Stamkos/Carson - 19

JaysCyYoung
04-10-2010, 09:52 PM
*in Borat voice*

Wow wow wee wow.

LeafGm
04-11-2010, 01:37 AM
Don't look now but the Wings hit 100 points last night, after it looked like they might not even make the playoffs a month ago.

They are 15-3-2 since the Olympics (a 131 point pace).
Man, nice reward for Phoenix after the season they've had. They get to face the Wings in the first round. They'd have been better off finishing 8th and facing the chokers in the first round.

ForeverTML
04-11-2010, 09:29 AM
Holy crap..

YouTube- Matt Cooke vs. Evander Kane

acescanuck
04-11-2010, 09:48 AM
That was epic. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

Wayward DP
04-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Nice. There's some karma for Cooke.

And nice performance by black magic too.

JackBurton
04-11-2010, 11:39 AM
The Wings piss me off their so good. Now they have Howard playing amazing and, after looking like they may finally be dipping, they look again like a strong cup contender. They had their injuries at the wrong time last year in the playoffs, but they've gotten healthy at the perfect time.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Even in that clip -- that's typical Cooke. Instigates something against a rookie teenager he thought he could take advantage. Well, the rookie teenager has a mean right hook.

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Beautiful.

LeafGm
04-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Holy crap..

YouTube- Matt Cooke vs. Evander Kane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW9Sp-WndwA)
Wow. I watched the UFC pay-per-view last night, and that punch by Kane was better than anything that was thrown in that event. Epic. Good to see someone make Cooke take his medicine.

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 02:31 PM
Cooke seriously violated the Code in that instance anyways. You do not go after an eighteen year-old rookie under any circumstances if you are a ten-year veteran like he is. Just disappointing stuff, which made it all the sweeter that he got his ass kicked.

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 04:54 PM
Heck of a game going on in Philly right now. Winner makes the playoffs. Loser goes home.

1-0 NYR after two, it's looking like it'll be be very difficult for the Flyers to get one by Lundqvist.

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 05:12 PM
Lundqvist has been standing on his head (SOG 36-16 for Philly) but the Flyers finally get one on the PP. 1-1 halfway through the 3rd.

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 05:13 PM
Too bad. If we had beaten the Habs in regulation last night, coupled with the distinct possibility that this game has of going to OT, they could be sitting in the Bell Centre dressing room sweating as we speak.

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:15 PM
I hope this game doesn't come down to a skills competition

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:36 PM
Lundqvist stops 44 of 45 during regulation...it's off to O.T

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 05:46 PM
It is going to a shootout. Hate to see Lundqvist lose it now, after the game he's played.

Exit716
04-11-2010, 05:46 PM
Bettman's gimmick to determine which big revenue team misses the playoffs.
I bet MSG and Ed Snider will be thrilled to see their season ruined by this BS tactic.

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:46 PM
and it's going to a shootout

what a stupid way to decide an important game

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 05:47 PM
The loser's season will be ruined by being a bunch of losers down the stretch.

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:48 PM
and....the Rangers are not using Gaborik as one of their 3 shooters?

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:49 PM
Briere scores on a nice deke

1-0 Philly

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:50 PM
Boucher stops Christensen

1-0

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:50 PM
Henrik stops Richards

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:51 PM
Parenteau ties is

1-1

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:51 PM
Giroux with some clutch goodness

2-1

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:52 PM
LOLli Jokinen is stopped by Boucher

Philly goes to the playoffs, the Ranges go home.

Factinista
04-11-2010, 05:52 PM
Goddammit I hate shootouts.

And where the hell was Gaborik???

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 05:52 PM
Wow. Jokinen can't get it done in a pressure situation. No surprise there I guess. Boucher does enough to get it done. Flyers are in.

Factinista
04-11-2010, 05:54 PM
I wanted the Rags to get in, because F the flyers. But on the bright side, we get to watch the Caps dismantle the Habs.

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 05:55 PM
Goddammit I hate shootouts.

And where the hell was Gaborik???

Yeah...you have a 40 goal scorer on your roster and you don't use him in a win or go home shootout?

This is yet another example in which a smart hockey professional decided that he was the smartest guy in the room and went against the obvious decision.

Factinista
04-11-2010, 05:56 PM
I like Torts, but that's absolutely crazy.

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 05:59 PM
Completely ludicrous decision. I don't care what Gabby's history is in the shootout, it's not like Jokinen has some kind of history being clutch. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Caps v. Habs? May have to sell everything I own and get down to Las Vegas to bet on the Caps.

Also, Detroit winds up in 5th place when it's all said and done.

Metalleaf
04-11-2010, 06:11 PM
Crosby gets number 51, 4 points today.

JohnnyHolmes
04-11-2010, 06:19 PM
Hmm...you still think the Habs are going to play more playoff games than the Sens?

:lol

Factinista
04-11-2010, 06:20 PM
The Habs and Sens'll play the exact same number of playoff games.

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Here's a hint: The # will be the same as the # of playoff series beatings they have received from a certain divisional opponent.

Isaac25
04-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Leaf fan talking trash about the playoffs...that's some funny shit.

hairnova
04-11-2010, 06:44 PM
Crosby gets number 51, 4 points today.

Five points now... 26 minutes to go and now only trails H.Sedin by three points.

Sid is ridonk.

habs25th
04-11-2010, 07:19 PM
A team with a russian captain and Theodore in net? Sign me up.

leaffan2005
04-11-2010, 07:20 PM
The Capitals could play with an empty net and they would win the series. At least Montreal had a chance against New Jersey or Buffalo. Washington will eat them alive.

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 07:21 PM
Crosby is ****ing retarded. Through two periods of play he had: 13:06 TOI 2 goals (50, 51), 3 assists, 5 points (105, 106, 107, 108, 109) and was a +4. Flat out retarded good.

habs25th
04-11-2010, 07:22 PM
The Capitals could play with an empty net and they would win the series. At least Montreal had a chance against New Jersey or Buffalo. Washington will eat them alive.

Nah we'll crush them easily. Cakewalk.Semin and Ovy are only thinking about going home to mother Russia.

Factinista
04-11-2010, 07:26 PM
No way the Habs win even 1 game. And in a shitty season, it's a nice consolation to know that we put them in that position.

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 07:26 PM
Stamkos with the fag goal with 12 seconds left in the Florida game to tie Crosby. Let's hope the Pens get Crosby some chances so we can have a legitimate winner for the Richard. Like Iafrate said, empty-netters are for fags.

LeafGm
04-11-2010, 08:14 PM
Stamkos with the fag goal with 12 seconds left in the Florida game to tie Crosby. Let's hope the Pens get Crosby some chances so we can have a legitimate winner for the Richard. Like Iafrate said, empty-netters are for fags.
The Pittsburgh game's over. Crosby finishes with 51 goals, so looks like Crosby and Stamkos will be sharing the Rocket Richard trophy.

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 08:16 PM
Yeah that's going to bug me, especially since Sid was kind enough to give Guerin the charity goal the other evening that cost him outright ownership of the trophy. I just really dislike Tampa Bay helping Stamkos get a slice of the award through less than legitimate means. An empty-netter to decide a trophy? Come on.

JohnnyHolmes
04-11-2010, 08:21 PM
The Habs and Sens'll play the exact same number of playoff games.

Which is still 4 more than you've played in the last 5 seasons.

JohnnyHolmes
04-11-2010, 08:22 PM
Yeah that's going to bug me, especially since Sid was kind enough to give Guerin the charity goal the other evening that cost him outright ownership of the trophy. I just really dislike Tampa Bay helping Stamkos get a slice of the award through less than legitimate means. An empty-netter to decide a trophy? Come on.

I guess someone better notify the NHL that Gretzky's 50 in 39 shouldn't count either.

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 08:26 PM
You're more hostile than usual, Holmes. Shouldn't you be happy that Ottawa is in the playoffs?

SundinsTooth
04-11-2010, 08:29 PM
well look at it from his pov...sure his team made the playoffs....but the team is the senators....hard to be over the moon about such a predicament.

JohnnyHolmes
04-11-2010, 08:30 PM
I am not hostile.

Of course I am happy that they are in the playoffs, but they are massive underdogs and some "homers" here and other sites are kind of getting on my nerves.

Factinista
04-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Which is still 4 more than you've played in the last 5 seasons.

Really?

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 08:33 PM
I am not hostile.

Of course I am happy that they are in the playoffs, but they are massive underdogs and some "homers" here and other sites are kind of getting on my nerves.

I don't really understand how someone can be a homer when they're not a fan of the Senators. That's kind of contradictory.

JohnnyHolmes
04-11-2010, 08:40 PM
I wasn't talking about Leafs fans picking Pittsburgh in 4 or 5. I am kind of leaning that way myself.

Wayward DP
04-11-2010, 08:40 PM
I don't really understand how someone can be a homer when they're not a fan of the Senators. That's kind of contradictory.

I think he's talking about kb...

As for Crosby-Stamkos... EN goals are part of the game. I'd be interested to see how many each of them has scored this year before getting my panties all in a knot that Stamkos' last goal of the year was of the EN variety. If they've both benefited equally from fag goals I'm not really concerned with when they got them.

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 08:41 PM
I wasn't talking about Leafs fans picking Pittsburgh in 4 or 5. I am kind of leaning that way myself.

Oh. My apologies. Who were you referring to then?

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 08:42 PM
I think he's talking about kb...

As for Crosby-Stamkos... EN goals are part of the game. I'd be interested to see how many each of them has scored this year before getting my panties all in a knot that Stamkos' last goal of the year was of the EN variety. If they've both benefited equally from fag goals I'm not really concerned with when they got them.

Alright I'm going to look this up.

LeafGm
04-11-2010, 08:45 PM
I don't see what's so faggy about an EN goal anyways. Getting a goal into the empty net is a clutch play---it puts a dagger through the heart of the other team when they're pressing to tie the game up. And like sir psycho sexy pointed out, the total # of empty net goals that the top goal scorers get probably evens out over the course of an entire season.

EDIT:

And for reference's sake, Stamkos had 3 empty net goals this year to Crosby's one empty net goal. And incidentally, Ovechkin led the league in empty net goals with 5.

Wayward DP
04-11-2010, 08:47 PM
And players like Crosby, theoretically at least, would benefit from them more than Stamkos (Pitts wins more games than TB, in theory should be more EN opportunities).

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 08:55 PM
A goal is a goal. Does anybody really care about this?

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 08:57 PM
Definitely surprised by the reception. Guess there aren't that many Al Iafrate fans around here, lol.

hockeylover
04-11-2010, 09:45 PM
Crosby finishes with 51 goals, so looks like Crosby and Stamkos will be sharing the Rocket Richard trophy.

Why is there no tiebreaker for the Rocket Richard? There's one for the Art Ross in goals, shouldn't the tiebreaker for the Richard be points?

JaysCyYoung
04-11-2010, 09:46 PM
That's what I always thought, HL. But remember back in 2004 when Iginla, Nash, and Kovalchuk all "shared the award." Points would probably be the proper way to do it.

hockeylover
04-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Shared awards are more faggy than empty net goals.

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 09:52 PM
first tie breaker should be GPG

Crosby: 51G in 81GP = .6296GPG
Stamkos: 51G in 82GP = .6220GPG

Crosby wins

axlsalinger
04-11-2010, 09:57 PM
Shared awards are terribly lame, but you can't base the "top goal scorer" award on how many assists they had.

hockeylover
04-11-2010, 10:00 PM
Shared awards are terribly lame, but you can't base the "top goal scorer" award on how many assists they had.

Mmmm, yeah true. For the first tie breaker, the Goals per Game seems like a better suggestion. Not sure what you'd do after that though. I hate the idea of a tie though.

Montana
04-11-2010, 10:01 PM
shooting percentage.

MindzEye
04-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Mmmm, yeah true. For the first tie breaker, the Goals per Game seems like a better suggestion. Not sure what you'd do after that though. I hate the idea of a tie though.

The only thing you can really do after that is start nit picking...take away EN goals, take away PP goals, SH goals, etc.

or yeah, shooting %....even Shootout goals

Wayward DP
04-11-2010, 11:13 PM
Pretty sure after GPG and S% another tie-breaker won't be necessary. Can't imagine two players being tied in goals, having played the same # of games, and taken the same # of shots.

If all those happen I'd probably be okay with a shared trophy.

JackBurton
04-12-2010, 12:07 AM
Sid is more impressive, the same goals in one less game than Stamkos and Stamkos scored almost half his goals on the PP.

leafman101
04-12-2010, 07:19 AM
Tie breakers are gay.

Most goals is most goals.

Most points is most points.

If more than one guy has it, you can't then base the award on something other than goals or points. Thats what the awards are for.

Lindros was screwed.

hockeylover
04-12-2010, 10:38 AM
^ Then there should be no tiebreaker for Art Ross either. But there is.

Wayward DP
04-12-2010, 10:44 AM
That's cause Bettman blows monkeys.

worm
04-12-2010, 11:52 AM
Shared awards are terribly lame, but you can't base the "top goal scorer" award on how many assists they had.

I was hoping they would all get 50....3 way tie

Guess Im a commie and just want to share everything... :p

Volcanologist
04-12-2010, 12:05 PM
So Lawton and Tocchet were fired today.

leafman101
04-12-2010, 12:27 PM
Surprise, surprise.

I think Lawton got a raw deal. But Tocchet is just a bad coach.

worm
04-12-2010, 12:33 PM
If Tampa gets a real coach they could be next years Yotes.

leafman101
04-12-2010, 12:40 PM
I just hope they don't hire Hitchcock and **** up everything good Stamkos is doing.

hockeylover
04-12-2010, 12:45 PM
Primeau knows he could do a better job than Berger/Cox.

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c54102/x2_fe52f5

JaysCyYoung
04-12-2010, 01:53 PM
:lol

Who is he interviewing there? Kabby? Bozak?

hockeylover
04-12-2010, 01:54 PM
Kaberle. I guess everyone was giving him the third degree about his future in Toronto/alleged feud with Wilson and Primeau thought he'd lighten the mood.

number17
04-12-2010, 02:00 PM
The stupid thing is, TSN (or was it Sportsnet?) advertised their broadcast by saying it's "possibly" the last game Tomas Kaberle plays as a Leaf.

Didn't wear hear that the year before ... and the year before ... ???

And didn't Burke just recently and repeatedly said he is not looking to trade Kaberle, and Kaberle said he wants to stay as a Leaf?

Look, I'm not 100% against trading Kaberle if a good deal comes along. But last I checked, Kabby has 1 more year on his contract, and neither the team nor the player is actively seeking a move. To say this could possibly be Kabby's last game ... well, it could be the last game by say, Beauchemin too.

JaysCyYoung
04-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Kaberle. I guess everyone was giving him the third degree about his future in Toronto/alleged feud with Wilson and Primeau thought he'd lighten the mood.

Incidentally, if Kaberle has indeed finished his final game in a Leaf uniform, his career line in Toronto goes like this:

820 GP 80 goals 402 assists 482 points +27

2002 All-Star.
2007 All-Star.
2008 All-Star.
2009 All-Star.

Second highest-scoring defenceman in franchise history (behind Salming). Not too shabby for someone that was an eighth round pick in arguably the worst draft class ever.

leafman101
04-12-2010, 02:14 PM
Unfortunately I think it probably was his last game as a Leaf.

Thanfully though, I have full faith in Burkie. He wanted Kessel and a 1st for him last time. He knows how good Kabby is, and he's not going to give him away.

number17
04-12-2010, 02:23 PM
i am not so sure about that leafman.

I don't think so many teams are going to pony up and pay what Burke regards as fair trade value in Kabby.

Nobody did last summer, we know that much.

And I agree with Burke. If you're looking for 'deals' look elsewhere. We're not selling short on Kabby.

I just don't think it'll happen.

leafman101
04-12-2010, 02:29 PM
Well I think there is a major difference between this summer and last summer.

This summer the free agency class sucks balls.

Last year there were lost of places to spend money without giving anything up.

Volcanologist
04-12-2010, 03:56 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/04/12/souray_request/



"I feel now that, when I signed here, I probably was as blinded by their great past as (the Oilers) are," Souray said. "People will question me, that they overpaid me … that it was a bad decision to sign me. But I can tell you this: I turned down more money in other places."




"I still have two years left on my contract. I made a commitment to come here when other guys wouldn’t," he said. "But you talk about Prongs (Chris Pronger) and guys like that, and it should raise an eyebrow when players who leave town are skipping out with a smile on their face."


Ouch. That first one's a stinger.

number17
04-12-2010, 04:11 PM
Yeah saw that this morning pep.

Pretty harsh words for the Oilers management ... but if time after times players leave Edmonton with a sour taste in their mouth, then maybe that tells you something.

JohnnyHolmes
04-12-2010, 04:35 PM
It tells me that being a good player doesn't make you a good coach or GM later down the line.

Pronger signed then bounced, after nearly winning the cup there no less.
Heatley refused to go there.
Comrie couldn't get out fast enough
Now Souray wants out.

Tough times in Edmonton.

worm
04-12-2010, 05:29 PM
Comrie went back. :p

Smyth wouldnt go back or sign.
Weight and Arnot left.

Hell even Wayne wanted out.
The Moose wants nothing to do with the place.

JackBurton
04-12-2010, 05:32 PM
It took Souray so long to sign as a UFA, I have my doubts he had better offers personally. I don't buy he wanted to go to Edmonton. I think the market was less less perceptive to him than he anticipated.

Volcanologist
04-12-2010, 05:43 PM
I hate Kevin Blowe, so **** him. But I do feel bad for the fans, even though they all hate the Leafs like any other Canadian team's.

worm
04-12-2010, 05:52 PM
I hate Kevin Blowe, so **** him. But I do feel bad for the fans, even though they all hate the Leafs like any other Canadian team's.

Westerns hate Toronto/Ottawa/Ontario.

No real hatred for the Leafs. Flames and Nucks are who Oiler fans hate.

LeafGm
04-12-2010, 07:44 PM
I just hope they don't hire Hitchcock and **** up everything good Stamkos is doing.
I hope they hire the worst, most irritating coach possible, and that the Lightning's management continues to be a total cluster-**** for the forseeable future. Anything to keep him as dissatisfied with Tampa as possible, and give us a shot at signing him as a UFA five years from now.

Of course, I know he'll sign a life-time contract there, and if he comes to Toronto it'll be when he's 39, just like every other Toronto boy. But hey, I can dream.

JohnnyHolmes
04-12-2010, 07:54 PM
I hope they hire the worst, most irritating coach possible, and that the Lightning's management continues to be a total cluster-**** for the forseeable future. Anything to keep him as dissatisfied with Tampa as possible, and give us a shot at signing him as a UFA five years from now.

Of course, I know he'll sign a life-time contract there, and if he comes to Toronto it'll be when he's 39, just like every other Toronto boy. But hey, I can dream.

I think Pierre Maguire is available.

Cpt. Koivu
04-12-2010, 07:57 PM
I hope they hire the worst, most irritating coach possible, and that the Lightning's management continues to be a total cluster-**** for the forseeable future. Anything to keep him as dissatisfied with Tampa as possible, and give us a shot at signing him as a UFA five years from now.

Of course, I know he'll sign a life-time contract there, and if he comes to Toronto it'll be when he's 39, just like every other Toronto boy. But hey, I can dream.

Right after we get Vinny right?

JaysCyYoung
04-12-2010, 08:00 PM
Seriously, I don't get what the hell is with all these Verdun and St. Leonard kids that defer from playing with the Habs, or all these Markham, King City, and Etobicoke kids that seem to shy away playing for the Leafs. I'm pretty confident many of us would take a fifty percent pay-cut just for the opportunity of playing at home.

LeafGm
04-12-2010, 08:06 PM
Right after we get Vinny right?
Exactly. Both have about an equal chance of happening.

leafman101
04-12-2010, 08:13 PM
I'd for sure want to play for the Leafs more than anywhere, but I'd also be pretty happy setting up on a beach in Tbay for $8 mil a year.

Cpt. Koivu
04-12-2010, 08:22 PM
I'd for sure want to play for the Leafs more than anywhere, but I'd also be pretty happy setting up on a beach in Tbay for $8 mil a year.

Sellout! I'd play in Tampa for the tradition and history.:couch

johnunit
04-12-2010, 08:24 PM
Seriously, I don't get what the hell is with all these Verdun and St. Leonard kids that defer from playing with the Habs, or all these Markham, King City, and Etobicoke kids that seem to shy away playing for the Leafs. I'm pretty confident many of us would take a fifty percent pay-cut just for the opportunity of playing at home.

I think in large part it comes down to there being 29 other teams offering these guys contracts.

JaysCyYoung
04-12-2010, 11:14 PM
**** that. Who the hell wants to play for Nashville, Columbus, or Carolina? Original Six or Canadian team or bust.

johnunit
04-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Easier to say that without a wife, agent, and millions of dollars in the picture.

GGpX
04-13-2010, 01:06 AM
Seriously, I don't get what the hell is with all these Verdun and St. Leonard kids that defer from playing with the Habs, or all these Markham, King City, and Etobicoke kids that seem to shy away playing for the Leafs. I'm pretty confident many of us would take a fifty percent pay-cut just for the opportunity of playing at home.

Probably because (at least here in Montreal) there are stories of Quebecois players being publicly harassed for poor performances. Jose Theodore comes right to mind. I remember hearing the story that he went to a restaurant one night with his wife & kid only to be boo'ed by some people in the restaurant. Whether that's fact or fiction, I don't know, but if it is fact... I wouldn't want to play for Montreal either if I was an NHLer.

Locke
04-13-2010, 08:47 AM
They want the best of both worlds- having a nice contract in California or Florida, and still get some recognition.

But the place's at Canada if you want to taste the reward of glory or the penalty of defeat. They want to be cheered on when all is good, but when comes rough times they do not want to face the music, fan/media pressure and the scrutiny. You want to be treated like a god, go play in Canada and take the good and the bad. No guts no glory.

worm
04-13-2010, 11:54 AM
These players have been on the move since they are 15... played on countless teams (CHL, AHL, NHL), etc. It is not shocking that they are not loyal to the hometown. Just look at Souray.

number17
04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
Comrie went back. :p

Smyth wouldnt go back or sign.
Weight and Arnot left.

Hell even Wayne wanted out.
The Moose wants nothing to do with the place.Hey don't forget Nylander who actually agreed to a $20M deal but then changed his mind last second and signed with the Caps instead.

worm
04-13-2010, 12:23 PM
Isnt he still in the minors?

hockeylover
04-13-2010, 01:13 PM
I could see Duchene going to Toronto or Montreal someday.

hockeylover
04-13-2010, 01:29 PM
Recently Tweeted

Spec44 Pat Quinn on Sheldon Souray: "If you don't want to play here ... Get the hell out."

theactivestick Sources say Phaneuf plans to lead by example. The rest of the #Leafs are asking out Sean avery's discarded puckbunnies as we speak.

TarikElBashir Nicklas Backstrom is ill, according to Coach Boudreau

TarikElBashir Speculation around KCI is that Alex Ovechkin isn't 100-percent.

hockeenight: The last time a Boston team traded for a lottery pick they got Len Bias. (hehe, isn't that the guy who died like immediately? that's Leaf-like luck)

worm
04-13-2010, 01:34 PM
The Caps are already coming out with the excuses.

habs25th
04-13-2010, 01:51 PM
The Caps are already coming out with the excuses.

:smilielol5:

Can't blame them.

JohnnyHolmes
04-13-2010, 05:22 PM
I saw some show a few years ago that did a feature on Rob Blake, and they went down to his beach house.

You can't compare the lifestyle of Southern California / Florida with that of Toronto and Montreal.

You get paid a ton, the weather kicks ass, and nobody knows who you are and they don't care either.

How can you beat that?

hockeylover
04-13-2010, 05:34 PM
You get paid a ton, the weather kicks ass, and nobody knows who you are and they don't care either.

I'd agree that'd appeal to a good number of players but some players like people knowing who they are. They want to be significant.

worm
04-13-2010, 06:28 PM
egomaniacs

LeafGm
04-13-2010, 06:35 PM
I could see Duchene going to Toronto or Montreal someday.
Isn't Duchene a Hab fan?

number17
04-14-2010, 04:08 PM
Speaking of young players coming to Toronto, both the FAN and AM640 were talking about the Tampa situation the last 2 days, saying how the ownership group is a mess, and now they've fired both the GM and the coach, there's no guarantee the new guys will right the ship.

And according to Hockeycentral, that's a situation Burke should and will keep a very close eye on, because after the 10/11 season Steven Stamkos is turning RFA, and if the Tampa mess isn't cleared up by then he might want to bolt town. The Tamp situation is a mess, they have all kinds of issues from actual revenue / payroll, cap space and contracts, to power struggle. For 2+ years they cannot make up their mind on whether Lecavalier is part of their future plan or not and they still can't.

All these reasons might make Stamkos pull a ... umm ... Kessel, and we all know what team Stamkos grew up watching.

It's premature, and it's from hockeycentral so take it as a wild rumor for now, but that'll be very interesting if Tampa doesn't right the ship this season.

worm
04-14-2010, 04:30 PM
Was it the Panthers?
Im going with "this isnt your fathers panthers team"

Or the Red Army Panthers.

There could be a lot of good players to steal from Tampa.

MyNameIsJonas
04-14-2010, 04:34 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned

Atlanta THrashers

Name RIck Dudley GM

Promote Don Waddell to President

Fire John Anderson..


what an abortion

Metalleaf
04-14-2010, 04:42 PM
Isn't Duchene a Hab fan?

No, he is/was a die hard Avalanche fan.

worm
04-14-2010, 04:44 PM
Back in the days when I went to a lot of WHL games all the drafted players listed (in the program) their favourite team as whatever team drafted them.

hairnova
04-14-2010, 05:12 PM
Was it the Panthers?
Im going with "this isnt your fathers panthers team"

Or the Red Army Panthers.

Haha, oh god.

voyager
04-14-2010, 05:20 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned

Atlanta THrashers

Name RIck Dudley GM

Promote Don Waddell to President

Fire John Anderson..


what an abortion
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/67/158784029_9535608642.jpg

MindzEye
04-14-2010, 05:42 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned

Atlanta THrashers

Name RIck Dudley GM

Promote Don Waddell to President

Fire John Anderson..


what an abortion

Wow...what the **** are they thinking?

worm
04-14-2010, 05:46 PM
They are thinking Calgary needs a 2nd team.

hockeylover
04-14-2010, 06:52 PM
No, he is/was a die hard Avalanche fan.

Habs fan... at least before being drafted to Colorado.

leafman101
04-14-2010, 08:14 PM
Waddel might be the worst GM in NHL history.

Dudley can't be any worse.

JaysCyYoung
04-14-2010, 08:27 PM
Doug MacLean gives Waddel a series run for his money. Dudley just spends too much time in the gym and has an inexplainable Russian fetish (hello Svitov, Artukhyin, Alexeev, and many others).

LeafGm
04-15-2010, 12:16 AM
Speaking of young players coming to Toronto, both the FAN and AM640 were talking about the Tampa situation the last 2 days, saying how the ownership group is a mess, and now they've fired both the GM and the coach, there's no guarantee the new guys will right the ship.

And according to Hockeycentral, that's a situation Burke should and will keep a very close eye on, because after the 10/11 season Steven Stamkos is turning RFA, and if the Tampa mess isn't cleared up by then he might want to bolt town. The Tamp situation is a mess, they have all kinds of issues from actual revenue / payroll, cap space and contracts, to power struggle. For 2+ years they cannot make up their mind on whether Lecavalier is part of their future plan or not and they still can't.

All these reasons might make Stamkos pull a ... umm ... Kessel, and we all know what team Stamkos grew up watching.

It's premature, and it's from hockeycentral so take it as a wild rumor for now, but that'll be very interesting if Tampa doesn't right the ship this season.
Oh God, I can already see it starting now. Stamkos is going to become the English version of Vincent Lecavalier. The Toronto media will just keep on making up BS rumours and dreaming up wild fantasies in which Stamkos will become a Toronto Maple Leaf, but it will never ever actually end up happening.

Volcanologist
04-15-2010, 12:31 AM
The rumour stuff was going to happen regardless of Tampa's ownership situation because Stamkos is from here, and it will continue until he's re-signed.

number17
04-15-2010, 09:34 AM
Yes, and that is expected ... OTOH, is there any reason why TB wouldn't lock up a young up-and-coming star like Stamkos?

If he isn't re-signed months prior to turning RFA, there's probably a reason why.

number17
04-15-2010, 03:53 PM
I was listening to the John Andreson interview with hockey central and it's pretty interesting ...

- First, he is PISSED OFF ... and he spills out a LOT of interesting stuffs

- Said the dressing room was a mess when he got there

- Said Kubina and Antropov were good additions both on and off the ice.

- Did not appreciate the way he was fired at all.

- Said Kozlov, Little could not provide secondary scoring and that was the biggest reason they missed the playoff this year

- When asked if Kovalchuk is part of the dressing room problem, he hesitated and thought for a LOOOONNNNG time, finally said "Kovalchuk is not a good captain in my opinion, and when things don't work out he tries to do everything on his own. That doesn't really work, but at least he tries and he tries hard, and I give him credit for that."

- Said there are still dressing room issues in Atlanta

JaysCyYoung
04-15-2010, 03:55 PM
Yeah I saw that. He wasn't too happy at all.

axlsalinger
04-15-2010, 03:59 PM
Heard most of that interview too. Can't say that I blame him. I hope he gets another chance to coach somewhere in the NHL.