PDA

View Full Version : Leaf Rumours



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169

Hoss
11-09-2009, 08:06 PM
I know the other page is going off about the Giguere one, and people can keep posting there, but I thought to start off this page for up and coming player rumours.

This one I found super funny... but some interesting names mentioned.


By Garrett Bauman | Nov 8, 2009





Despite an encouraging 3-0-4 record in their past 7 games, the Maple Leafs continue to explore ways to improve their roster with an eye to both the current season and the future. The following is a rundown of the latest rumours making their way around the campfire in reference to the boys in blue.





* A very good source has it that the Leafs are seriously exploring the option of putting in a claim on veteran centre Michal Nylander, should the Washington Capitals expose him to re-entry waivers. Nylander is currently plying his trade in the AHL due to salary cap concerns; any team that would claim him would be facing an approximate 2.4m cap hit upon doing so.



* The single greatest need on the roster continues to be big-bodied forwards who can consistently take up residence in the slot and do the dirty work in front of the net. Names such as Nathan Horton, David Backes, and Alexander Frolov have been mentioned in various forums as players of interest who could fill this role. Horton and Backes play for teams in need of a shakeup, and Frolov has been rumoured to be on the trading block since the beginning of the season. However, the asking price on all three players is said to be too high (draft picks, which the Leafs do not have, or top prospects, which the Leafs do not want to move) at the present time.


* Contrary to popular belief, there have been teams kicking tires on Jason Blake’s availability, but none have been serious enough in their pursuit to make any sort of offer as of yet. Carolina was believed to be interested at one point in adding a speed dimension to their lineup to try to get Eric Staal going; however, with Staal now on the injured list that talk has all but died down. Florida is said to be intrigued by the possibility of reuniting Blake with Dominic Moore, and should their offensive woes continue to persist few would be surprised if they began to seriously explore that option.


* Jonas Frogren is not in the AHL because the team did not like his play or think there was a fit with the Leafs; rather, he is there as the result of a numbers game, plain and simple. It is unlikely he gets traded, but in the event there is an injury to the Leafs’ blueline corps, or a trade involving a member of that group, he will be at the top of the call-up list.


* On that note, word on the grapevine suggests that there is some interest in Garnet Exelby from teams looking to add toughness to their back end. Colorado is the team that keeps popping up with this one.


* As for the recent rumours involving Chicago, where there is smoke there is usually fire and there is a lot of smoke coming out of the Windy City these days. The Blackhawks are going to be in serious salary cap trouble this summer, and while many GMs would line up to take good players off their hands for next to nothing, the Leafs are said to be one of only a few teams that would be open to making the sort of deal that Chicago would be more partial to; namely a deal that would help both teams as opposed to a straight salary dump.


* The latest rumour to emerge from the Chicago situation (coming out of Chicago) has the ‘Hawks interested in moving Brian Campbell for Tomas Kaberle, which would save the Hawks some $3m. The Leafs would likely want draft picks to compensate for the extra salary picked up in the deal; the problem with that is, Chicago is rumoured to be hesitant to move draft picks in any deal. The other problem? Kaberle would have to be willing to go to Chicago, in the first place. No word yet on whether he would consider the Blackhawks as a possible destination, should he at some point be asked to waive his NTC.


* Update: the above rumour, while refuted on HNIC, continues to be pushed by Chicago sources as legit. Interesting.


* Of course, to pick up any sort of salary, the Leafs would have to find a way to move some of their own out. Jason Blake was mentioned above, and Jeff Finger is said to be available also. The reason the team sat Finger down instead of demoting him was, they knew there was enough interest out there for his services that they’d have lost him on re-entry waivers the second they called him back up. After all, the team picking him up would have got him for only $1.75m. The question is, is there enough interest out there for a team to be willing to acquire him at his full $3.5m/season contract value?


* Back to Kaberle: sources say the Leafs will not move him unless they are able to recoup draft picks in a deal, plain and simple. Even if they can work something out to their liking with another team, they would be hesitant to pull the trigger without either (a) an offensive-minded defenseman coming back as part of the deal, or (b) a second deal in place to acquire an offensive-minded defenseman. After Kaberle, Ian White is the only puck-moving defender on the roster.


* The talk of Kaberle’s approved destination list containing entirely teams from the East is false. While the list is said to consist of predominantly Eastern Conference clubs, there are a couple of teams in the West that he is said to be willing to consider waiving his NTC to go to.


* At this point in time, the list of teams interested in Kaberle’s services includes roughly half the league.


* The Leafs have been said to have been talking to Vancouver on an on-again, off-again basis since the off-season. Tampering charges notwithstanding, business is business and there has been talk of there being mutual interest in players on both sides for quite some time. Once Roberto Luongo is healthy, young goaltender Cory Schneider will be again relegated back to the minors … it is worth noting that the Leafs did have representatives present for one of his starts already this season.


* Ian White is not likely to get traded unless a potential deal is simply too good to pass up. The coaching staff and management team love the guy, and there is plenty of speculation that a contract extension will be offered prior to the end of the season.


* Jamal Mayers’ days as a member of the Leafs are numbered; things just haven’t worked out in Toronto for the classy veteran. As soon as the team can find a taker for him, he will be moved. It’s sort of a game of chicken right now; the Leafs are said to be shopping him to try to get some sort of return, while teams appear to be waiting for the Leafs to demote him and then expose him to re-entry waivers (in which case he could be picked up at half his contract value and for zero return).


* Vesa Toskala can rest easy; he will not have to worry about moving anytime soon. The team is said to have resigned itself to the fact that his trade value is nil, and he will most likely spend the final year of his contract wearing a blue and white jersey. The question is, will he be wearing it in the NHL or AHL? If Vesa’s game doesn’t improve soon, he will be demoted to the Marlies with Joey MacDonald becoming the full-time backup. But at least he won’t have to worry about packing or house-hunting (hey, you’ve got to be able to find the silver linings in everything, no matter how small they may be).



It is important to note that no moves appear to be imminent or on the horizon at this time. Rather, the talk among the grapevine is of possibilities the team may be considering worth exploring as the season continues to move forward.

garrettbauman@mapleleafshotstove.com

Now the Campbell for Kaberle are EFFING HILARIOUS but the Horton and now Backes rumours are what I find the most interesting.

I also don't doubt that some teams may be interested in guys like Exelby and even Blake.

Backes has 2 count them 2 points this season after a 30/30 season with 155 PIMS (This was the reason I picked the effer in my pool) But St. Louis is lacking something again, despite them taking a big step in the second half last year.

Could Florida also be dumb enough to feel that Blake and Moore could do magic again?? I'd take Horton to see if that's true.

teeds
11-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Why would Burke want to move Kaberle, the guy is the closest thing we have on the D to a superstar. And on top of all that, he is a real classy guy. Sort of our version of a Beliveau. These types don't grow on trees. I didn't chirp when Burke traded Kubina, but I will chirp plus if he trades Kaberle. No need to trade him, no need at all.

Kritter
11-09-2009, 08:37 PM
The only way Kabs gets traded is if Burke rapes someone in a trade.

zeke
11-09-2009, 08:44 PM
I'd do Kaberle for Toews.

LeafGm
11-09-2009, 09:05 PM
Who is Garrett Bauman?

EDIT:

...and after reading that tripe, my conclusion is that not only is this guy making up rumours, but he's not very good at it either. Seriously...Kaberle for Campbell? That sounds like a Blackhawks' fan's wet dream. I'd want Burke to be fired on the spot if he pulled that one off.

Metalleaf
11-09-2009, 09:26 PM
Who is Garrett Bauman?

EDIT:

...and after reading that tripe, my conclusion is that not only is this guy making up rumours, but he's not very good at it either. Seriously...Kaberle for Campbell? That sounds like a MyNameIsJonas' wet dream. I'd want Burke to be fired on the spot if he pulled that one off.

Fixed!!

LeafGm
11-09-2009, 09:30 PM
Fixed!!
Hmmm....maybe "Garrett Bauman" = MyNameIsJonas. I still remember him imagining that the Hawks could make Campbell the centrepiece of a trade for Dany Heatley in the summer. So, it's not too far-fetched that he'd also imagine the Hawks could trade the worst contract in the NHL for Kaberle.

LeafOfFaith
11-09-2009, 09:34 PM
The Nylander and Kaberle rumors are downright nauseating.

MyNameIsJonas
11-09-2009, 09:35 PM
Hmmm....maybe "Garrett Bauman" = MyNameIsJonas. I still remember him imagining that the Hawks could make Campbell the centrepiece of a trade for Dany Heatley in the summer. So, it's not too far-fetched that he'd also imagine the Hawks could trade the worst contract in the NHL for Kaberle.

Even i am not that dilluded to think Campbell could net Kaberle.

And Campbell for Heatley WAS discussed lol

Metalleaf
11-09-2009, 09:35 PM
On a related note I wouldn't mind getting David Backes. He seems like the kind of player we need a few more of.

LeafGm
11-09-2009, 09:37 PM
Even i am not that dilluded to think Campbell could net Kaberle.

And Campbell for Heatley WAS discussed lol
Haha, good stuff then. And at least you admit the Campbell/Heatley stuff. Can't blame you for wishful thinking!

zeke
11-09-2009, 09:38 PM
It's hard to look past Backes' horrific start to this season, though.

There's a chance that last year saw a whole bunch of Blues playing a bit above their heads. None of the kids looks anywhere near as good as they did last year so far - and their hot streak to start this season was mainly based on some unreal play from vets like Tkachuk, which has faded.

Volcanologist
11-09-2009, 09:44 PM
Yeah, I don't get the Kaberle to Chicago thing. Unless one of their top young guys is coming back, why do it?

MyNameIsJonas
11-09-2009, 09:47 PM
Kaberle to Chicago only makes sense if.

a) We find a taker for Campbell ( ive heard Atlanta NYI Ottawa and Carolina have kicked tires)

b) The Leafs are out of it at the deadline.

At that point you might see some sort of offer of 2 of Barker, Versteeg Sharp and a pick

LeafGm
11-09-2009, 09:52 PM
Kaberle to Chicago only makes sense if.

a) We find a taker for Campbell ( ive heard Atlanta NYI Ottawa and Carolina have kicked tires)

b) The Leafs are out of it at the deadline.

At that point you might see some sort of offer of 2 of Barker, Versteeg Sharp and a pick
There, now you're right back in crazy town again.

The Blackhawks are not getting elite talent signed at a ridiculous discount for a couple of "B" players.

MindzEye
11-09-2009, 09:58 PM
At that point you might see some sort of offer of 2 of Barker, Versteeg Sharp and a pick

At which point, Burke hangs up the phone laughing.

then what?

TimHorton
11-09-2009, 10:00 PM
then we play Monopoly.

JaysCyYoung
11-09-2009, 10:01 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/t0pzc8.jpg

Habsy
11-09-2009, 10:03 PM
Those whip marks?

Kritter
11-09-2009, 10:56 PM
Are those Jays hairy legs ?

Habsy
11-09-2009, 10:58 PM
Either that or she's on one nasty rag.

Habsy
11-09-2009, 10:58 PM
And damn those are toothpicks.

JaysCyYoung
11-09-2009, 11:03 PM
Are those Jays hairy legs ?

I wish.

Kritter
11-09-2009, 11:04 PM
I wish.


You wish you had hairy legs ?

blkngldbabe
11-09-2009, 11:05 PM
Those whip marks?

I totally thought the same thing, Habsy. Nice touch for an internet shot, LOL.

JaysCyYoung
11-09-2009, 11:24 PM
You wish you had hairy legs ?

No, I wish I was under a chick with that type of ass right now.

BeLeafer
11-09-2009, 11:49 PM
These 'rumours' appear to be the product of someone's uncreative imagination.

If Burke trades Kaberle, I'll be puked. It would only pain less if we could bag a true budding #1 centre. Otherwise, I'll get my torch and join the mob on Bay.

LeafGm
11-10-2009, 12:00 AM
These 'rumours' appear to be the product of someone's uncreative imagination.

If Burke trades Kaberle, I'll be puked. It would only pain less if we could bag a true budding #1 centre. Otherwise, I'll get my torch and join the mob on Bay.
Yeah, the only thing I'd be satisfied in return from Chicago would be Jonathan Toews. But then you'd just be filling one hole (#1 centerman) while opening up a giant hole in another place (#1 defenseman, PP QB). So, what's the point, really? Besides, it'd be nice to actually see a star player start and end his career in Toronto. When was the last time we actually saw that happen?

MindzEye
11-10-2009, 12:02 AM
The Kaberle for Campbell rumour is a Chicago area wet dream.

Kaberle is better, and cheaper than Campbell, and even on his next contract will be cheaper...he will also continue to be better.

Seriously, Zeke had it nailed...Toews, Kane or **** off.

BeLeafer
11-10-2009, 12:05 AM
Besides, it'd be nice to actually see a star player start and end his career in Toronto. When was the last time we actually saw that happen?
I agree with this. He's a lifer, imo.

I always worry though that this organization doesn't really value him properly. I've felt that way ever since the Leetch trade.

The only possible advantage here is that we get additional mileage. Ian White can fill some large shoes, but it's what's behind him that would create a rather large void on our blueline and suck the life out of our offensive game.

axlsalinger
11-10-2009, 01:07 AM
I can't imagine any scenario where the Hawks would give up Toews or Kane for Tomas Kaberle ... which is fine, because he should remain a Leaf regardless. I was open to exploring trade options in the off-season, but I've changed my mind, barring a ridiculously loaded offer.

We've discussed Horton before, but Backes is a new one. If the Blues do decide to move him, I would love to hear what they'd want back, because I'd definitely have some interest there. If the price was reasonably low.

sun face
11-10-2009, 02:14 AM
I wouldn't trade kaberle for anything right now.

Cojo
11-10-2009, 08:41 AM
I wouldn't trade kaberle for anything right now.

I said the same thing last deadline day and over the summer.

The guy is one of the best.

teeds
11-10-2009, 09:11 AM
He got chubby for a while but he would have to be Santa Claus before I would want to trade our Beliveau.

BG
11-10-2009, 10:23 AM
Backes is a nice player, decent goal scorer and can play any forward position. I'dlike to see a player like this in our top 6 whether it's Backes, Ladd or Clowe. All decent young power forwards with 25g/60pt upside.

Hoss
11-10-2009, 10:38 AM
Backes is very much a "Burke" type of forward. He would add that aggressive play while still being able to put the puck in the net.

He's been horrible this season, and the question is... which is the real David Backes???

Unfortunately I think St.Louis would want someone like Poni for him... and right now Poni is the better player.

BG
11-10-2009, 10:46 AM
Backes is very much a "Burke" type of forward. He would add that aggressive play while still being able to put the puck in the net.

He's been horrible this season, and the question is... which is the real David Backes???

Unfortunately I think St.Louis would want someone like Poni for him... and right now Poni is the better player.


Well unless Poni starts using his size to intimidate opponents - I think that he'll be prime trade bait before the trade deadline - especailly if we can replace him with some real muscle up front.

number17
11-10-2009, 10:56 AM
I heard an interview of Wilson when he spoke about Poni, and I think he's got a very good read on Poni, and it actually convinced me again of Wilson's ability to read players, and his coaching ability.

The interview started with Watters calling Poni an 'enigma' and he's a soft player for his size. Wilson basically said some players have certain elements in them, that you can work on, but some players just don't have it in him. Poni, despite his size, is not a feisty or physical player. He utilizes his size along the board and in the corners, but if you want him to play that feisty, intimidating physical game he just doesn't have it in him.

But Wilson said if you can forget his size, and just assess him as if he's an average sized player, he's a speedy winger who is consistent for ~ 20G every season, and that isn't bad at all. He's responsible defensively, he feels comfortable playing him in the last minute of a 1 goal game, and he consistently leads the team in +/-. He can play in 5 on 5, PK, PP. And off the ice, he's a very nice guy, which is another reason why he just doesn't have that feistiness in him. But Wilson thinks he's been a positive influence on the young players, especially the young Russian players like Grabovski, Kulemin etc.

So all in all, despite Watters' attempt to sell him as a disappointment or a player that's not part of the plan, Wilson likes Poni and sees him as a valuable contributor on the team.

Hoss
11-10-2009, 11:10 AM
I agree.. we want him to knock down people and such, but the reality is he scores 20 or so goals and does alot of things well. That's what you want from a guy making his salary.

I would love to somehow get a Backes in here without giving him up.

He's a perfect 6th forward. A line with him and Backes though could be a big second line with some toughness and skill

BG
11-10-2009, 11:51 AM
Poni's a decent player - but if trading him means filling a team need, there are a lot of veterans who can play Poni's game for a similar price.

number17
11-10-2009, 11:55 AM
By no means am I saying Poni's irreplaceable. But I think Wilson recognizes he's a useful player on the team, and unless he gets something of value in return, he's not going to throw him away.

I mean, it's not THAT easy to find a 20G 50Pts player who is defensively reliable, can kill penalty, and gets along with everybody in the dressing room, and can be a mentor to the young Russian kids. Actually, now I think about this, he's the last Russian veteran on our team.

PKForce81
11-10-2009, 12:15 PM
We lack size on our top lines and Poni does the job effectively. As long as he puts 20-30 goals and works hard every night (which he does), i won't complain. Chemistry on this team is pretty darn good right now and i hate messing with that especially when it comes to our top forwards. Yes we can get this guy and that guy but i believe in team chemistry more than anything...You can have a team full of star players and still suck...Rangers had done a good job at that for many years.

sun face
11-10-2009, 12:45 PM
I totally agree with that assessment by Wilson. Ponikarovsky has never really used his size in a way that I'd like, but setting that aside he's a good player. It's just frustrating that you get the sense he could be a much better player if he threw his weight around a bit more.

Hoss
11-10-2009, 12:52 PM
maybe St. Louis would like Mayers back in a package... some "veteren presence"

They don't seem like a team though that wants any expiring contracts... if not I would send Stajan and Mayers for Backes.

LeafOfFaith
11-10-2009, 02:31 PM
Poni is the only impending UFA that I hope we keep.

The rest I would leave on the side of the curb with the rest of the trash.

axlsalinger
11-10-2009, 04:17 PM
Can't see why they would want Mayers back, considering they are probably still chuckling to themselves about swindling us out of a third round pick for him.

I would trade Poni for Backes in a heartbeat. Stajan? That's an interesting one, I think I'd do that too if they prefer him.

zeke
11-10-2009, 04:24 PM
Backes could easily just be another Stempniak.

mbow30
11-10-2009, 04:26 PM
could be. but you've gotta love guys who are 6'3 230, can drop em, bang along the boards, and have 30 goal seasons under their belts.

even if he never gets back to 30 he'll have his uses. and he's the sort of big, strong aggressive player this team could use.

zeke
11-10-2009, 04:33 PM
Is he that big? I thought he was more of a 200-210lber.

mbow30
11-10-2009, 04:38 PM
nhlpa has him at 220, nhl.com has him at 225.

zeke
11-10-2009, 04:41 PM
wow, he's Kulemin-sized.

Hoss
11-10-2009, 04:41 PM
I think though this year he fancied himself a goal scorer and hasn't played that aggressive game. He has something like 8 PIMS...

If I were his coach I'd tell him to be ahuman wrecking ball and just go out their and hit something.. then maybe the goals will come back

mbow30
11-10-2009, 04:44 PM
wow, he's Kulemin-sized.

hmm.. kulemin for backes. that might work. ship out a couple of underachievers. the blues get a guy who is maybe a little more offensive oriented, the leafs get a big body who can goto the net, play in the corners, actually throw his weight around, drop the gloves AND score.

axlsalinger
11-10-2009, 04:50 PM
There's no doubt that Backes is a bit of a risk, but that is the reason we might be able to get him at a discount in the first place.

I wonder if they might bite on an offer of Kulemin for Backes. I'd have to think about that one, still hoping he can figure things out in a Leaf uniform. I'd much rather ship out Poni or Stajan. As mentioned earlier, would love to know what they want for him.

The other thing to consider is that he's definitely a Burke type of winger.

leafman101
11-10-2009, 04:52 PM
I'd avoid making any more deals with St. Louis for their expensive, fallen from graces, players.

JD and Larry Pleau are no fools.

Cojo
11-10-2009, 04:54 PM
Kulemin feels like the type of player that we'd trade and he'd instantly turn into a 70 pt player.

The leafs did that a lot with guys like Modin/McCauley/Sullivan

zeke
11-10-2009, 04:54 PM
I think I'd like to have him, but damn, 2 points in 15 games scares me.

mbow30
11-10-2009, 04:56 PM
and yet the boner hasn't subsided at all over kulemin's 3 points?

leaffan2005
11-10-2009, 04:58 PM
Backes could easily just be another Stempniak.

And considering Stempniak's awesomeness, I see nothing wrong with this.

zeke
11-10-2009, 05:00 PM
I wouldn't describe it as a boner

and, of course, Kuly's not making $2.5 nor is he getting 17 minutes a game nor is he getting prime PP time. and 3 points in 11 games is better than 2 points in 15 games.

mbow30
11-10-2009, 05:13 PM
I wouldn't describe it as a boner

and, of course, Kuly's not making $2.5 nor is he getting 17 minutes a game nor is he getting prime PP time. and 3 points in 11 games is better than 2 points in 15 games.

he's making 1.7, so their salaries aren't far off.

and 3 points in 11 games still stinks. i'm not going to split hairs between 2 points in 15 games and 3 points in 11 games.

i agree, backes has had a really bad start to the year. but kulemin's hasn't been any better.

LeafOfFaith
11-10-2009, 06:46 PM
I can't believe anyone would entertain trading any of our young guys, unless it's for some proven slightly older guy.

And how can we evaluate anyone properly on this team yet? They've only JUST started playing the last few games. The next 20 or so will be a much better measuring stick, with Gus providing us with someone in the net.

And on that subject, Kulemin has the 3 goals in his last 6 games. After the bullshit benchings in favor of Mayers and all the horseshit surrounding the team. That's a good little run. Let's see how he progresses, not throw him away.

zeke
11-10-2009, 06:55 PM
I agree with the wait and see approach.

It's been damn tough this year especially, but I refuse to make any even preliminary judgments on this team or players until the quarter pole of the season.

axlsalinger
11-10-2009, 07:51 PM
I can't believe anyone would entertain trading any of our young guys, unless it's for some proven slightly older guy.David Backes is 25.

http://forecaster.ca/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?3502

ASSETS: Has size, hockey sense, a nose for the net and plenty of grit and determination. Can play both center or wing.
FLAWS: His scoring tends to disappear for long stretches. Is also prone to taking bad penalties on occasion.
CAREER POTENTIAL: Physical, versatile top six forward.

Hoss
11-10-2009, 08:31 PM
both Poni and Backes make 2.5 mill... that could be an even swap..

The question becomes... would you??

LeafOfFaith
11-10-2009, 09:11 PM
Except for the flaws, that pretty much sums up Kulemin, so why do that?

mbow30
11-10-2009, 10:21 PM
meh, backes is more physical and so far has proven that he can score in the nhl.

the thing is, i do agree that kulemin shows some signs that make you think he could be a 60+ point forward. which i don't thikn backes has displayed.

if they're both 40-50 point guys then backes is the superior player, though.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-11-2009, 07:51 AM
Trade for Briere.

Blake Briere Kessel

LeafOfFaith
11-11-2009, 01:50 PM
Yech.

blkngldbabe
11-11-2009, 02:22 PM
Briere? WHiny douche Briere? NO thanks.

BG
11-11-2009, 02:55 PM
If Briere were healthy, in at least the last couple years of his contract, and offered as a pure salary dump -- Burke would still have to think about it.

Hoss
11-11-2009, 03:34 PM
Too many IF's in that statement, that aren't close to true... so NO WAY on Briere.

Horton and Backes right now seem to be the only players "on the block" that are and should be of interest to the leafs.

I think you do what you can to get one of those guys, and then trade the rest of the potential UFA's for draft picks by the deadline.

WellPlayed
11-11-2009, 03:52 PM
Horton would be nice. A young, big, center who playing with Kessel would probably have no problem being a 30 goal 70 point guy.

Our lack of 1st line center is really hurting us right now.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 03:58 PM
Horton is more of a winger than a centre

WellPlayed
11-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Really? HockeyDB has him listed as a C. I try to avoid panthers games at all costs, so I was just going by that. Too bad.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:01 PM
He's a centre the same way Nik Antropov is a centre....in that people keep talking about him playing centre because that's where he started at in the NHL, but he hasn't lined up at centre in quite some time to my knowledge and by all accounts, looks better on the wing.

zeke
11-11-2009, 04:03 PM
I've always liked Briere.

Don't think he'd have any problem being a PPG+ centre for us.

leafman101
11-11-2009, 04:04 PM
If Briere was a UFA would you sign him to a 5 year $32.5 million deal at 32 with now a season and a bit of groin issues?

WellPlayed
11-11-2009, 04:05 PM
Blake-Briere-Kessel is just way to much of a Montreal-style midget fest first line for my liking. A bigger body would have to replace Blake.

teeds
11-11-2009, 04:09 PM
Quite honestly, I think we are temporarily pooched because of Wilson. I don't want to be negative(ah sure I do) but this guy really laid down an early turd on this very fragile team.

I think we should have had Kadri up here for ten games, and taking the chance that he wouldn't be killed. And wouldn't it be wonderful to have Kadri and Kessel right now? Yeah we could, woulda, shoulda been careful with him, but the KID has STONES galore.

And we should have sent Toskala to the bench EARLY.

It is too late to get Kadri back, and we don't have any fireplugs on the team. Seriously, we need some guys that have that Ted Lindsay in them. We don't seem to have that, except for Komisarek and he can't get too excited or he takes penalties.

I am still ALL IN for Gustavson, I think he is the real deal. I have to say, as good as he is, and he is very good, this Backstrom, at this point, is more polished. And we ran into a hot guy.

On this team, we need to be firing on all cylinders. They are all pros, but there are some real young guys here.

I personally would LOVE to see Keith Acton have a whirl at running the team, with HAWK NOSE as is assistant and one more assistant.

I really, really, really don't think Wilson is the man for THIS team. Maybe some other veteran team, I don't care, but NOT this team.

Keith Acton I imagine is respected by the guys, let him go. I bet he would play youth and veterans accordingly.

And Kulemin looks to be showing some signs of coming around. Stempniak is playing great for a fourth liner. Until he gets that shot focused, let him bang and crash and charge the net. He definitely has an NHL game right now, but not a finishing touch.

Get the right pieces, doing the right things. That is what it is all about in a CAP world. Lets get it going.

zeke
11-11-2009, 04:11 PM
Blake + Finger for Briere.

LeafOfFaith
11-11-2009, 04:20 PM
As much as I don't want Briere...

Done.

axlsalinger
11-11-2009, 04:23 PM
I'd probably do that deal, but I can't see why they would.

We do have to be careful and make a tough decision at center, though. if the organization thinks that we can get our # 2 and # 3 centers out of Grabovski-Stajan-Bozak-Mitchell, do we still spend money on a UFA like Savard, and where does Kadri fit in?

I guess the most likely plan would be UFA-Kadri-Bozak, while letting Stajan sign elsewhere. Mitchell and Wallin can fight over the # 4 spot. That just leaves Grabovski.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:26 PM
No thanks...significant injury history, too small, 32 years old, signed until he's 37 to 6.5 million.

As bad as our two albatross contracts are, a big no thanks to Briere. Don't bail Philly out of their mistake.

CTheBigPicture
11-11-2009, 04:28 PM
run it through CTB Decision Filter:

Question going in: Should we go after Daniel Briere?

Is there a need at his position?YES
Does he have the skills required to make us better?YES
Does his salary match his typical production level?YES
.
.
.
.
.
Forget the almost meaningless playoffs...can you win a championship with him on the team? Unlikely....(as mentioned above) he would be part of a very small first line + he is too fragile

Final Decision: PASS!

31-Oct-09> Quadriceps injury, day-to-day.
12-Mar-09>Missed 2 games (groin).
06-Mar-09>Groin, day-to-day.
28-Feb-09>Missed 36 games (groin).
03-Dec-08>Groin, sidelined indefinitely.
02-Dec-08>Missed 9 games (groin).
12-Nov-08>Groin, day-to-day.
08-Nov-08>Missed 6 games (abdominal surgery).
24-Oct-08>Abdominal surgery, late November.
11-Apr-08 >Missed 2 games (knee injury).
04-Apr-08 >Knee injury, day-to-day.
06-Mar-08>Missed 1 game (sprained right shoulder).
04-Mar-08>Sprained right shoulder, day-to-day.
02-Mar-07>Missed 1 game (flu).
27-Feb-07>Flu, day-to-day.
01-Mar-06>Missed 24 games (abdominal surgery).
06-Jan-06 >Abdominal surgery, late February.
17-Dec-05>Abdominal injury, day-to-day.
11-Dec-05>Missed 8 games (Abdominal injury).
23-Nov-05>Abdominal injury, sidelined indefinitely.
16-Feb-01>Missed 2 games (shoulder injury).
13-Feb-01>Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
19-Oct-00>Missed 5 games (groin).
07-Oct-00>Groin, day-to-day.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:29 PM
Savard is probably going to cost somewhere in that vicinity this summer, and is far superior to Briere.

There's absolutely no way I want Savard, Briere, Grabs, & Mitchell standing in Kadri's way next year at training camp.

corksens
11-11-2009, 04:32 PM
???

You wouldn't want Savard on your team next year? Kadri would be best suited to start as a second line centre. Leaving Grabovski/Stajan to fight for the 3rd line.

Mitchell is a blockhead who can be easily moved.

Savard
Kadri
Stajan/Grabovski
4th line rubbish

That's pretty good down the middle.

CTheBigPicture
11-11-2009, 04:34 PM
he never said that. Assuming we get Savard, he, nor many other posters here, would want Briere on top of that. That would basically block Kardri from making an impact.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:36 PM
???

You wouldn't want Savard on your team next year? Kadri would be best suited to start as a second line centre. Leaving Grabovski/Stajan to fight for the 3rd line.

Mitchell is a blockhead who can be easily moved.

Savard
Kadri
Stajan/Grabovski
4th line rubbish

That's pretty good down the middle.

I want Savard. I would do many bad things to make sure that the man signs in Toronto this summer.

It's Briere that I want no part of.

corksens
11-11-2009, 04:37 PM
ahh. That makes more sense.

Kadri would get eaten alive as a starting 1st-line centre next year. You need a star player to a) tutor him, b) take the pressure off production wise, c) take on other teams top units.

Volcanologist
11-11-2009, 04:38 PM
No thanks...significant injury history, too small, 32 years old, signed until he's 37 to 6.5 million.

As bad as our two albatross contracts are, a big no thanks to Briere. Don't bail Philly out of their mistake.

The interesting part is that's kind of the situation we'll be in if we sign Savard this offseason(minus the injury history). Of course, Briere's only put up one season I'd pay big bucks for, but on the other hand he never got to play with Kovalchuk(or Kessel, for that matter).

axlsalinger
11-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Corky is either forgetting about or assuming Tyler Bozak will remain in the AHL.

As for Briere, you pick him up only on the condition that he is the # 1 center, and Savard is out of your plans. It would be foolish to spend the money required on both guys, with the depth players we have at the position.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Agreed entirely...and Savard is that guy, Briere isn't.

I'm assuming that Stajan is traded at the deadline this year honestly, so I'm expecting/hoping to see

Savard
Kadri
Grabs
Mitchell

as our centres next year

corksens
11-11-2009, 04:41 PM
I didn't forget about Bozak. I just don't know where he slides in for you guys.

Savard makes the absolute most sense. Then Kadri. Then Gabovski or Stajan. The 4th line is up for grabs, but that isn't ideal for Bozak.

It kinda makes you wonder why he signed with the Leafs. They don't have the best centres in the league...but they have alot of natural C's.

axlsalinger
11-11-2009, 04:42 PM
Waiting for Marc Savard is also a risk, cause he could easily re-sign with Boston or move elsewhere. Still, I'm willing to wait, you can always revisit a Briere trade in the summer if need be.

axlsalinger
11-11-2009, 04:43 PM
Bozak has second-line center upside. He throws a wrench into the whole thing, but I suppose we can't count on him just yet. That's why I slotted him in at # 3 center.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:43 PM
The interesting part is that's kind of the situation we'll be in if we sign Savard this offseason(minus the injury history). Of course, Briere's only put up one season I'd pay big bucks for, but on the other hand he never got to play with Kovalchuk(or Kessel, for that matter).

Savard put up 96 points in his first season in Boston with an old ass Glen Murray (45 points) and Marco Sturm (44 points) on his line...then put 78 in 74 games up the following season with Sturm & Murray/19goal Phil Kessel

Of course though, regardless of what he did without Kovalchuk or last season's dynamic Phil Kessel...he would have dynamic Phil Kessel to play with in Toronto.

leaffan2005
11-11-2009, 04:43 PM
Bozak will likely fit in as the 3rd line centre in that scenerio, as Grabovski can and very likely will have to move to the wing to have a future on this team, imo.

His improvements in the face-off circle complicate the matter, but he doesn't seem like a smart enough player to last down the middle and while he gives the effort, his defensive awareness and positioning on the ice doesn't suit him well as an ideal fit down the middle.

Bozak on the other hand, is the exact opposite and could very well be the 2nd line centre next year if he continues to develop (assuming we miss out on Savard).

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Waiting for Marc Savard is also a risk, cause he could easily re-sign with Boston or move elsewhere. Still, I'm willing to wait, you can always revisit a Briere trade in the summer if need be.

The thing is, as a stand alone move, the Briere move doesn't make sense. He's really a 65-75 point centre who isn't going to lead you to a championship, but is paid pretty premium money.

Honestly, I'd rather Marleau as a younger/better option who we could probably get at the same money as Briere and who is quite likely to hit free agency.

As an aside...Marc Savard is quite likely to hit free agency...Boston has ****ed themselves for cap space.

corksens
11-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Bozak will likely fit in as the 3rd line centre in that scenerio, as Grabovski can and very likely will have to move to the wing to have a future on this team, imo.

His improvements in the face-off circle complicate the matter, but he doesn't seem like a smart enough player to last down the middle and while he gives the effort, his defensive awareness and positioning on the ice doesn't suit him well as an ideal fit down the middle.

Bozak on the other hand, is the exact opposite and could very well be the 2nd line centre next year if he continues to develop (assuming we miss out on Savard).Kadri must be your 2nd line C.

He can't start on the 1st line next year and he isn't a 3rd line kinda guy. He'll get run over.

MindzEye
11-11-2009, 04:48 PM
and hey, I like Bozak too, but can we wait until he starts doing something in the AHL before we start shifting natural centres out of position to accommodate him?

I know, I know...he had a bad flu and that's why he's not tearing it up yet....but let's just wait until he is to go making roster decisions around him.

leafman101
11-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Savard/Marleau
Kadri
Bozak
Mitchell

leafman101
11-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Bozak is a very good defensive center, who is solid on the draw and a very good PKer. At the very worst he is a good 3rd line center now.

zeke
11-11-2009, 05:10 PM
He's really a 65-75 point centre who isn't going to lead you to a championship, but is paid pretty premium money.

D.Briere

09/10 (31): 10gms, 5gls, 7pts, 17:39 (82gms, 41gls, 57pts)
08/09 (30): 29gms, 11gls, 25pts, 15:39 (82gms, 31gls, 71pts)
07/08 (29): 79gms, 31gls, 72pts, 18:52 (82gms, 32gls, 75pts)
06/07 (28): 81gms, 32gls, 95pts, 19:19 (82gms, 32gls, 96pts)
05/06 (27): 48gms, 25gls, 58pts, 19:04 (82gms, 43gls, 99pts)
2-year: 39gms, 16gls, 32pts (82gms, 34gls, 67pts)
3-year: 118gms, 47gls, 104pts (82gms, 33gls, 72pts)
Lockout+: 247gms, 104gls, 257pts (82gms, 35gls, 85pts)

Any time he's given top-line minutes he's a PPG player, usually more - and with a nice balance of goals and assists.

He'd have zero problem doing that here in Toronto, with more minutes than he could ever ask for, and all of them with Kessel.

What's more is that he's a fantastic clutch performer:

Playoffs

PHI 08/09 (30): 6gms, 1gls, 4pts, 16:41 (82gms, 14gls, 55pts)
PHI 07/08 (29): 17gms, 9gls, 16pts, 18:26 (82gms, 43gls, 77pts) - led team
BUF 06/07 (28): 16gms, 3gls, 15pts, 20:53 (82gms, 15gls, 77pts) - led team
BUF 05/06 (27): 18gms, 8gls, 19pts, 18:48 (82gms, 36gls, 87pts) - led team
Total (31): 57gms, 21gls, 54pts (82gms, 30gls, 78pts)

Three years in a row he was the leading playoff scorer on a team that made it to the conference finals. Last year was the first year since the lockout that his team didn't make it to the conference finals.



The only question with Briere IMO - and it's a big one - is health.

leafman101
11-11-2009, 05:22 PM
Briere is good, but that contract...

I wouldn't even consider him until after July 1, where there could be as many as 3 #1 centers available (Marleau, Savard, Jokinen).

zeke
11-11-2009, 05:33 PM
09/10

Briere (31): 10gms, 5gls, 7pts, 17:39 (82gms, 41gls, 57pts)
Savard (32): 7gms, 4gls, 7pts, 18:13 (82gms, 47gls, 82pts)
Marleau (30): 19gms, 11gls, 23pts, 20:47 (82gms, 48gls, 99pts)
Jokinen (30): 16gms, 2gls, 9pts, 18:18 (82gms, 10gls, 46pts)


08/09

Briere (30): 29gms, 11gls, 25pts, 15:39 (82gms, 31gls, 71pts)
Savard (31): 82gms, 25gls, 88pts, 19:32 (82gms, 25gls, 88pts)
Marleau (29): 76gms, 38gls, 71pts, 21:21 (82gms, 41gls, 77pts)
Jokinen (29): 76gms, 29gls, 57pts, 18:53 (82gms, 31gls, 62pts)

Briere (PLYF): 6gms, 1gls, 4pts, 16:41 (82gms, 14gls, 55pts)
Savard (PLYF): 7gms, 1gls, 6pts, 17:06 (82gms, 12gls, 70pts)
Marleau (PLYF): 6gms, 2gls, 3pts, 20:29 (82gms, 27gls, 41pts)
Jokinen (PLYF): 6gms, 2gls, 5pts, 19:24 (82gms, 27gls, 68pts)


07/08

Briere (29): 79gms, 31gls, 72pts, 18:52 (82gms, 32gls, 75pts)
Savard (30): 74gms, 15gls, 78pts, 20:31 (82gms, 17gls, 86pts)
Marleau (28): 78gms, 19gls, 48pts, 18:14 (82gms, 20gls, 51pts)
Jokinen (28): 82gms, 34gls, 71pts, 19:54 (82gms, 34gls, 71pts)

Briere (PLYF): 17gms, 9gls, 16pts, 18:26 (82gms, 43gls, 77pts)
Savard (PLYF): 11gms, 6gls, 13pts, 19:36 (82gms, 45gls, 97pts)
Marleau (PLYF): 13gms, 4gls, 8pts, 23:04 (82gms, 25gls, 51pts)
Jokinen (PLYF): ----------


06/07

Briere (28): 81gms, 32gls, 95pts, 19:19 (82gms, 32gls, 96pts)
Savard (29): 82gms, 22gls, 96pts, 20:13 (82gms, 22gls, 96pts)
Marleau (27): 77gms, 32gls, 78pts, 18:34 (82gms, 34gls, 83pts)
Jokinen (27): 82gms, 39gls, 91pts, 20:32 (82gms, 39gls, 91pts)

Briere (PLYF): 16gms, 3gls, 15pts, 20:53 (82gms, 15gls, 77pts)
Savard (PLYF): ------
Marleay (PLYF): 11gms, 3gls, 6pts, 18:59 (82gms, 22gls, 45pts)
Jokinen (PLYF): ----------


05/06

Briere (27): 48gms, 25gls, 58pts, 19:04 (82gms, 43gls, 99pts)
Savard (28): 82gms, 28gls, 97pts, 20:30 (82gms, 28gls, 97pts)
Marleau (26): 82gms, 34gls, 86pts, 19:56 (82gms, 34gls, 86pts)
Jokinen (26): 82gms, 38gls, 89pts, 20:29 (82gms, 38gls, 89pts)

Briere (PLYF): 18gms, 8gls, 19pts, 18:48 (82gms, 36gls, 87pts)
Savard (PLYF): -------
Marleau (PLYF): 11gms, 9gls, 14pts, 21:07 (82gms, 67gls, 204pts)
Jokinen (PLYF): ----------


They'll all be paid similarly, but Briere might give us the chance to drop some other bad contracts.

leafman101
11-11-2009, 05:37 PM
I'm not sure.

The difference is Briere has been on a downward turn production wise over the last 4 years. Marleau and Savard have been pretty consistent (aside from 07-08 for Marleau.)

And I really, really don't like committing that money for 5 years to a 32 year old with groin problems.

I also think Savard can be had for less.

zeke
11-11-2009, 05:42 PM
yeah, I'm not sure either.

teeds
11-11-2009, 05:47 PM
You know, from my personal experience, a phenomenal environment could turn Stajan into a number one center. Hagman into a consistent player. Grabovski into a high scorer, Ponikarovsky into much more.

WE DON'T HAVE IT. Here. So why bring in guys until you have the right environment. It will just be a pig in a poke.

Get an assistant coach, with no NHL experience, who works with the players in practise to bring them to their full potential. I look at the Leaf bench and just shake my head.

Volcanologist
11-11-2009, 05:50 PM
Briere doesn't compare favourably to Savard without the magic of pace. Luckily Burke doesn't use pace...he can see for himself that Briere only ever put up one great season and is hurt all the ****ing time. Savard has had several years of top calibre production, and without being constantly injured. The money and term is kind of irrelevant...Savard is about the same age and it will cost the Leafs about the same amount to sign him(something between 6 and 7 mill).

zeke
11-11-2009, 06:04 PM
I'd say Burke paced out Kessel.

and while I'd prefer Savard, there's no guarantee we get him, and, again, there's a chance we could dump some other contracts in getting Briere - not so much with Savard.

Volcanologist
11-11-2009, 06:16 PM
I'd say Burke paced out Kessel.


In the sense that he figured we'd be getting more with true top-line ice time, yes. But he's not looking at Briere's 48 game season and pacing it out to 82 and figuring that tells him anything meaningful, I can tell you that much.



and while I'd prefer Savard, there's no guarantee we get him, and, again, there's a chance we could dump some other contracts in getting Briere - not so much with Savard.

I'd say there's a significantly higher chance we sign Savard than Philly taking Blake and Finger just to dump Briere, if that's what you mean by "dump some other contracts". Any cap benefit for the Flyers wouldn't be realized for a few years. You'd think they'd want to clear as much room as possible for the short term.



Of course though, regardless of what he did without Kovalchuk or last season's dynamic Phil Kessel...he would have dynamic Phil Kessel to play with in Toronto.


He should always be referred to as "Dynamic Phil Kessel" from now on. Kind of like "Bad Boy Dennis Rodman".

zeke
11-11-2009, 06:21 PM
In the sense that he figured we'd be getting more with true top-line ice time, yes. But he's not looking at Briere's 48 game season and pacing it out to 82 and figuring that tells him anything meaningful, I can tell you that much.

What did Briere do the season after that 99pt-pace, 48-game season?

Just because you want something to be true, doesn't mean you can ignore reality.

and no, pace has nothing to do with icetime. Even without looking at icetime, Burke knew that Kessel was better than a 60-point player last year.



I'd say there's a significantly higher chance we sign Savard than Philly taking Blake and Finger just to dump Briere, if that's what you mean by "dump some other contracts". Any cap benefit for the Flyers wouldn't be realized for a few years. You'd think they'd want to clear as much room as possible for the short term.

Maybe. I dunno.

They could get a capable and healthy winger, plus shore up their bottom pair defense, which are basically their only two areas of need right now.

And they'd only have 2 years of committed caphit after this year, instead of 5.

And it would be on two separate contracts, which might be easier to move.

LeafGm
11-11-2009, 06:56 PM
Wouldn't touch Briere with a ten-foot pole, even if we could ditch the Blake and Finger contracts in the process. Blake and Finger are both only signed for 3 more years, and at least they don't have a history of injuries. 32 years old, small, very injury prone with 5 years and $32.5M is an incredibly bad combination.

As for Marc Savard, if he hits free agency, Brian Burke should be giving him the Jonas Gustavsson treatment to try and get him to sign here. He's a proven, elite PPG+ centerman. And as much as people still want to give Kovalchuk or Kessel the credit for his success, in Savard's first season with Boston, he scored 96 points with Glen Murray as the team's top winger, and Kessel on his way to scoring 29 points as a rookie. Then, he scored 78 points in 74 games the next season, when none of the team's wingers even cracked 40 points.

This is a player that makes his own success, not someone who just feeds off of good wingers. And it's also worth noting that Ilya Kovalchuk's only two 50 goal seasons came when he was on Savard's wing.

LeafOfFaith
11-11-2009, 09:01 PM
Forget about Jokinen.

The good thing about Savard is that at 32, I'm not sure he'll be commanding a long term. Considering the well-documented desire to play in Toronto, and perhaps a 4 year / $6M per contract, I think he could be had.

Marleau will probably get the 7 year deal, especially since there appears to be so little UFA competition this summer.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Briere would allow the Leafs to ease Kadri into the lineup. Briere is more than capable of playing a top line scoring role and he has the skill level to play with Kessel. This would allow the Leafs to start Kadri off in a 2nd or 3nd line role. If/when Kadri is ready to play a 1st line role, you can move Briere down to the 2nd line.

I like Briere because he has PPG potential, you can get him for next to nothing (it would be a Philly salary dump) and the Leafs could away deal one or two of their bad contracts.

I'd also prefer Savard, like has been mentioned above, but it's not a lock that he even makes it to free agency.

mbow30
11-14-2009, 04:30 PM
I don't like Briere because he's 32 years old, has (objectively speaking) seen his rate of production decline substantially since leaving the Sabers, and is signed for $6.5mn per year for another five years. It just isn't worth it.

The only contract that would maybe be worthwhile to peddle would be Blake's, but even then, with only two years remaining I don't think it's a worthwhile deal. Maybe if Blake had another three or four years to go. But not as it is.

That contract is a real albatross, and taking it off the Flyers' hands would almost be akin to the Habs giving the Rangers a mulligan by bringing in Gomez. It just isn't worth it.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-14-2009, 04:38 PM
Tlusty Briere Kessel
Stalberg Kadri Kulemin
Hagman Bozak Hanson
Orr Mitchell Deveaux

MindzEye
11-14-2009, 04:39 PM
That contract is a real albatross, and taking it off the Flyers' hands would almost be akin to the Habs giving the Rangers a mulligan by bringing in Gomez. It just isn't worth it.

This

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-14-2009, 04:43 PM
That contract is a real albatross, and taking it off the Flyers' hands would almost be akin to the Habs giving the Rangers a mulligan by bringing in Gomez. It just isn't worth it.

It wouldn't really be the same because the Habs actually gave assets in exchange for that contract. The Leafs would be giving away other bad contracts.

mbow30
11-14-2009, 04:54 PM
It wouldn't really be the same because the Habs actually gave assets in exchange for that contract. The Leafs would be giving away other bad contracts.

Says who?

leaffan2005
11-14-2009, 04:57 PM
Says the logic that no team will be able to take a contract like Briere without giving contracts back.

mbow30
11-14-2009, 04:58 PM
Says the logic that no team will be able to take a contract like Briere without giving contracts back.

Well a team just took on a worse player than Briere making more money without surrendering a bad contract.

MindzEye
11-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Says the logic that no team will be able to take a contract like Gomez without giving contracts back.

FTFYTML

leaffan2005
11-14-2009, 05:01 PM
Well a team just took on a worse player than Briere making more money without surrendering a bad contract.

The Habs had basically their entire team off the books this off-season and could afford to make such a move.

What team can add a guy like Briere right now without giving up any significant contracts?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-14-2009, 05:02 PM
Says who?

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Philly would be willing to deal Briere if it meant shortening the cap hit down the line. Especially if it meant adding a little more depth on the wings or on the blueline. They currently have three centres making 5+ million. That's a lot of money tied up long term into one position.

mbow30
11-14-2009, 05:07 PM
I don't think it's a stretch to say that Philly would be willing to deal Briere if it meant shortening the cap hit down the line. Especially if it meant adding a little more depth on the wings or on the blueline. They currently have three centres making 5+ million. That's a lot of money tied up long term into one position.

I just don't know. I've been waiting for this sort of move to happen for a long time -- it's been five years since the cap came into effect -- and we are still yet to see that sort of swap made. It is possible? Certainly. But I don't think it's likely. And I think that the Gomez trade proves that any contract is tradeable without having to take on substantial dollars under the cap.

mbow30
11-14-2009, 05:10 PM
The Habs had basically their entire team off the books this off-season and could afford to make such a move.

What team can add a guy like Briere right now without giving up any significant contracts?

Why would a 10-4-1 team that doesn't seem to have any holes be looking to deal their third best forward in a mid season trade?

I think they'll look to ship out Briere in the off season regardless. They will have to clear space to re-up Emery (or find another goaltender) and eventually to hang on to Van Rimsdyck. But then you're in the same situation that the Rangers were in last off season while trying to trade Gomez. Teams will have the cap space at that point, and they won't have to give away Briere by taking on another bad contract or two.

zeke
11-14-2009, 05:15 PM
That contract is a real albatross, and taking it off the Flyers' hands would almost be akin to the Habs giving the Rangers a mulligan by bringing in Gomez. It just isn't worth it.

Nah.

Briere is a PPG+ guy when he gets top minutes, Gomez is a 60+pt guy.

Totally different level of player.

and Briere makes less money.

and, of course, we would never be giving up a top prospect in the deal like the Habs did, and we'd have to be dumping some bad contracts of our own back on them as well.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-15-2009, 06:16 PM
Jonas Gustavsson may soon be signing an extension, because the Toronto Maple Leafs fear losing him to an offer sheet next offseason.

The Ottawa Sun's Bruce Garrioch writes, "There would be more than an NHL GM or two who wouldn't mind put the screws to Burke by signing The Monster to an offer sheet worth $5 million a season."

A league executive said, "Don't think for a second there wouldn't be a lineup of teams again offering up big money if he gets to restricted free agency."



There isn't a big enough market for goalies for teams to overpay finacially and give up assets using the offer sheet strategy. Just this past offseason alone, Anderson, Emery, Biron were signed for very little because there just wasn't a big demand for goalies.

Wayward DP
11-15-2009, 06:28 PM
Yah but the Leafs also really can't afford to lose Gus at this point.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-15-2009, 06:31 PM
I can't think of many teams that A) can afford a 5+ mill dollar goalie and B) Need a 5+ million dollar goalie. Most teams already have their starters locked up for next year.

If the some team does decide to make an offersheet, the Leafs do have the right to match anyways.

zeke
11-15-2009, 06:47 PM
I'm sure Burke will sign him asap - in fact, I'm sure they probably already had a contract extension worked out in principle before Gusto signed in the first place.

and they'll obviously match any offer sheet.

Habspatrol
11-15-2009, 07:08 PM
I'm pretty sure they can't re-sign Gus until January 1st.

axlsalinger
11-15-2009, 07:11 PM
It is still a big concern that the guy took an eternity to make up his frikkin mind in the summer ... and then only signed a one-year deal.

zeke
11-15-2009, 07:16 PM
the CBA doesn't allow a 24 year old rookie to sign anything other than the deal he signed.

he signed for the max amount and the max length he was allowed to.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-15-2009, 07:17 PM
It is still a big concern that the guy took an eternity to make up his frikkin mind in the summer ... and then only signed a one-year deal.

The only option was a 1 year deal due to the CBA.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-15-2009, 07:18 PM
With Kaberle, White and Gun playing well.

And with Beau and Komi locked up long term.

Why not trade Schenn for a young forward?

MindzEye
11-15-2009, 07:18 PM
and as for taking a while to make his mind up....his mother died this summer...I don't really blame him for putting everything else on the back burner for a bit after that.

axlsalinger
11-15-2009, 07:19 PM
Interesting, hadn't heard that (1-year limit) but it makes a lot more sense then.

leafman101
11-15-2009, 07:27 PM
The RFA talk is weird.

GM's can't wait to sign Toews and Kane. GM's can't wait to sign Gustavsson.

How often to big time RFA's not resign before July 1? Not often.

This year the cream of the crop after Kessel was Brandon Dubinsky.

And no one has the balls to make offer sheets anyway.

Hoss
11-16-2009, 12:44 AM
With Kaberle, White and Gun playing well.

And with Beau and Komi locked up long term.

Why not trade Schenn for a young forward?

What about a Schenn for Schenn trade??

Hoss
11-16-2009, 12:46 AM
I would seriously take a flier on Nylander right now... what do you have to lose. The forwards we have are shiiite

MindzEye
11-16-2009, 12:48 AM
I would seriously take a flier on Nylander right now... what do you have to lose. The forwards we have are shiiite

If you pick up a player on re entry with additional years left on his contract....do the additional years come at half price as well?

If the answer is yes, I definitely send a few scouts to take a look at Nylander, and if they give the thumbs up, make arrangements to get him put on re entry.

zeke
11-16-2009, 12:58 AM
yes.

LeafOfFaith
11-16-2009, 03:56 AM
Yes, that's the situation, but a resounding no for tossing our hat in the ring.

That's all we need, another piece of shit forward on an immovable contract clogging up the point of entry for guys like Bozak and Kadri.

Please lord, spare me and let us get nowhere near Nylander.

You guys have to ask yourselves why an excellent team like Washington feels like it has no room for a guy like Nylander. This guy is useless.

CTheBigPicture
11-16-2009, 08:21 AM
You guys have to ask yourselves why an excellent team like Washington feels like it has no room for a guy like Nylander. This guy is useless.


wouldn't be the first time that an excellent team has no room for a player who could help out another team.

I would say no to Nylander as well. Nylander would take yet another spot away for a player who has no future with this team.
No more NMC's please either.

j_15
11-16-2009, 09:03 AM
With Kaberle, White and Gun playing well.

And with Beau and Komi locked up long term.

Why not trade Schenn for a young forward?

Should have happened in the summer, when he had damn near messiah status, and we could have got a great return by the sounds of it.

I like the guy, and I'm not giving up on his. But he is what he is, and is also replaceable. Unfortunately though, it sounds like we just wont listen to offers for the guy for some reason.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 05:36 PM
Nikita Filatov is a human stock in Russia for the Columbus Blue Jackets, and he raised it by tallying three points in his KHL debut, the Columbus Dispatch reports.

However, he might soon be traded as at least one team has inquired about trading for the winger. But GM Scott Howson wants to keep his asset -- for now.

Earlier in the week, Chris Botta of Fanhouse wrote, "They will trade him. It's just a matter of time. If they don't get equal value before March 3, maybe Filatov will play more games for Columbus next season before everyone realizes there's no turning back. But his best value figures to be in the aftermath of the WJC."

Filatov's wishlist to Santa is simple: playing time and an offense-oriented coach. So Filatov's logic in departing for the KHL was that he would develop quicker in Russia because he'll play more. But by the time he returns to the NHL, he might be wearing a different uniform.




I know Burke mentioned that he wouldn't have picked Filatov, but now might be a great time to buy 'low'. He's has top end skills and he could be dynamic with Kessel.

number17
11-21-2009, 06:13 PM
CBJ isn't going to sell low for Filatov just yet, and would you REALLY want Filatov's baggage if you were Burke?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 06:15 PM
Schenn for Filatov

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 06:18 PM
You serious? If this kid doesnt get what he wants, he bolts.

Not really smart to give up Schenn for him.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 06:20 PM
You serious? If this kid doesnt get what he wants, he bolts.

Not really smart to give up Schenn for him.



He wants to play.

Getting 18-20 minutes with Kessel will solve any issues he may have.

Filatov - Kadri - Kessel

Volcanologist
11-21-2009, 06:34 PM
So why can't he get playing time in Columbus, if he's that good?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 06:35 PM
So why can't he get playing time in Columbus, if he's that good?

Why can't Schenn get much playing time in Toronto, if he's that good?

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 06:37 PM
He wants to play.

Getting 18-20 minutes with Kessel will solve any issues he may have.

Filatov - Kadri - Kessel
If he doesnt get that minutes he will bolt.

And we will be left with neither Filatov nor Schenn.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 06:41 PM
If he doesnt get that minutes he will bolt.

And we will be left with neither Filatov nor Schenn.

That's a concern with any Russian I guess, but I think the major issue is that Filatov would rather play in the KHL than play 8 minutes a game with a Jackets. And I don't really blame him. Playing a 19 year old, high draft pick, only 8 minutes a game at the NHL level makes no sense.

The Leafs have a gaping hole on the 1st line which he may be able to fill.

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 06:44 PM
That's a concern with any Russian I guess, but I think the major issue is that Filatov would rather play in the KHL than play 8 minutes a game with a Jackets. And I don't really blame him. Playing a 19 year old, high draft pick, only 8 minutes a game at the NHL level makes no sense.

The Leafs have a gaping hole on the 1st line which he may be able to fill.
I really dont think the leafs can afford to trade one of their up and coming future captains (yes I believe that will be the case) for a potential question mark.

I think if we or someone else gets Filatov, the price will be a bit less.

leafman101
11-21-2009, 06:45 PM
Pass on Russians already bolting to Russia at 19 when the going gets tough.

This team is a big enough bunch of pansies already.

leafman101
11-21-2009, 06:48 PM
In fact I would have way more interest in him if he stuck around and learned to play 2 way hockey under Hitchcock.

Apparently he doesn't like his own zone much.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 06:53 PM
He hasn't really been given much of a chance to succeed though. In the 13 games he's played, he's played less than 10 minutes 11 times. He's had few games where he's played less than 5 minutes a game. That's Orr-like icetime.

It would be like calling up Kadri, playing him 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, then asking why he isn't producing. And Filatov wouldn't be the first 19 year old to be lost in his own end.

Volcanologist
11-21-2009, 06:57 PM
Why can't Schenn get much playing time in Toronto, if he's that good?

The situations don't compare.

Schenn got plenty of playing time last year, because he was very good. This year he hasn't been as good, ergo he plays less.

Filatov on the other hand can't really seem to get any time on Columbus at all.

leafman101
11-21-2009, 06:59 PM
Its not the lack of success. Its the running home with his tail between his legs to avoid the hard work he was expected to do here.

**** guys like that. He's no Datsyuk.

It would be like if Schenn said,"this is too hard i think I want to go back home and play in the WHL, peace."

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 06:59 PM
What I like about Filatov is that he put up very good numbers for an 18 year old in the AHL last year -- 16 gls, 32 pts in 39 gms. Filatov is a kid and the AHL is a tough league filled with grown men.

He has the skill level to be a top level producer in the NHL. With the right icetime and linemates, he will be a 1st line calibur player imo.

And it's not like Columbus has handled their first round picks particularly well over the years.

zeke
11-21-2009, 07:00 PM
To go back and instantly start lighting up the KHL like that is really, really impressive.

leafman101
11-21-2009, 07:01 PM
Its not the skill its the piss poor attitude. **** him.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 07:04 PM
The situations don't compare.

Schenn got plenty of playing time last year, because he was very good. This year he hasn't been as good, ergo he plays less.

Filatov on the other hand can't really seem to get any time on Columbus at all.

Both players are playing marginal roles for their teams (at least Filatov was)

With 19-20 year old players, I don't think that's an indictment on either players skill level or potential.

Volcanologist
11-21-2009, 07:25 PM
Let's try this again.

Why would the Jackets entertain the idea of trading Filatov, then?

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 07:26 PM
He hasn't really been given much of a chance to succeed though. In the 13 games he's played, he's played less than 10 minutes 11 times. He's had few games where he's played less than 5 minutes a game. That's Orr-like icetime.

It would be like calling up Kadri, playing him 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, then asking why he isn't producing. And Filatov wouldn't be the first 19 year old to be lost in his own end.

No doubt he hasnt been given a chance in CLB. But its not worth to trade for a question mark, which is what he is.

The leafs have virtually no leeway to send him down to the farm for development or play him less because there is a chance he will leave. Its not a chance the leafs of all teams can afford to take.

MindzEye
11-21-2009, 07:35 PM
Let's try this again.

Why would the Jackets entertain the idea of trading Filatov, then?

Because a lot of GM's are human beings just like the rest of us and get frustrated with players when they don't go along with what "we" would want them to.

They obviously want him to sit nice and quiet like a good boy and play the role they've relegated him to on the far back end of their NHL squad. Not being willing to be dictated to like that may be reason enough for CBJ to trade him if they get a decent offer.

For example..Chiarelli traded Kessel more or less because Kessel thought he was worth more money than Krecji and Chia had pegged them both as equal.

FWIW, I don't think that it would cost us Schenn to land Filatov. Schenn built up a pretty big reputation last year, and I don't think for a second that 20 up and down games as a sophomore has effected it too much.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 07:55 PM
No doubt he hasnt been given a chance in CLB. But its not worth to trade for a question mark, which is what he is.

Schenn is a question mark. He's not a finished product.


The leafs have virtually no leeway to send him down to the farm for development or play him less because there is a chance he will leave. Its not a chance the leafs of all teams can afford to take.

Filatov had no problems playing in the AHL last season. He played great down there.

I think he had a problem with playing 8 minutes a game, when at his age and development, he should be playing big minutes whether it's in the NHL, AHL or KHL.

If he was playing something like 13-15 minutes a game and he decided to run to Europe, I would look at the situation a little differently. But he was basically sitting on the bench all season. He needs to play.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 08:03 PM
Let's try this again.

Why would the Jackets entertain the idea of trading Filatov, then?

For the same reasons the Bruins traded Kessel.

GM's think they're smarter then everyone.

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 08:20 PM
Schenn is a question mark. He's not a finished product.

Schenn has actually show in the NHL that he is not a question mark.

Filatov his not. And Filatov's question mark not only concerns the way he plays, but what will happen if he doesnt play well.


Filatov had no problems playing in the AHL last season. He played great down there.

I think he had a problem with playing 8 minutes a game, when at his age and development, he should be playing big minutes whether it's in the NHL, AHL or KHL.

If he was playing something like 13-15 minutes a game and he decided to run to Europe, I would look at the situation a little differently. But he was basically sitting on the bench all season. He needs to play.
He needs to deserve those minutes. No coach is going to magically give it to him. Schenn played well enough last year to deserve time, this year its the opposite.

Again, the only difference between Schenn and Filatov this year, is you have flexibility in terms of ice time/sending him down with Schenn while you dont have that with Filatov.

No reason for the leafs to take a chance like that.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 08:26 PM
It really comes down to this for me.

I see Schenn's high end upside as a #2/#3 defender on a good team.

I see Filatov's high end upside as a 1st line forward on a good team.

And I'd take the first line forward over the #2/#3 defensive defender every time.

There may be higher risks with Filatov, but the potential is also much higher.

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 08:40 PM
Well, I think you'd be singing a different tune if Schenn had started this year the same way he played last year.

Glad you ackowledge the risk however. If the leafs were the Hawks, Id be all over getting Filatov. We're not in a position to take risks of this magnitude.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 08:42 PM
Well, I think you'd be singing a different tune if Schenn had started this year the same way he played last year.

Glad you ackowledge the risk however. If the leafs were the Hawks, Id be all over getting Filatov. We're not in a position to take risks of this magnitude.


I wanted Filatov over Schenn at the draft.

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 08:46 PM
So did Columbus, apparently.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-21-2009, 08:48 PM
So did Columbus, apparently.

How do we know that?

Columbus took Filatov 6th after Schenn was picked by the Leafs.

ForeverTML
11-21-2009, 08:53 PM
I watched the draft, and they mentioned that Columbus was going to pick Schenn, hence the reason we moved up to get him.

*edit, I meant Columbus wanted Schenn not Filatov which makes sense after what they went through with Zherdev.

JaysCyYoung
11-21-2009, 09:24 PM
Columbus wanted Schenn badly. That was very well-known at the draft last year.

zeke
11-21-2009, 09:29 PM
and with their drafting record, that shoulda been a warning sign.

number17
11-22-2009, 12:45 AM
If you trade Schenn for Filatov, I think CBJ will actually go for it.

Anyways, for a change of topic - it was mentioned Burke has offered to take Sopel off Chicago's hands for a draft pick. Chicago has the deals done with their 3 kids, but cannot make them official because that'd put them over the cap. They are looking for teams to take big contracts off their team with picks / lesser prospects to compensate.

It is believed it's Sopel + 2nd for a lesser prospect from Toronto

MyNameIsJonas
11-22-2009, 12:52 AM
If you trade Schenn for Filatov, I think CBJ will actually go for it.

Anyways, for a change of topic - it was mentioned Burke has offered to take Sopel off Chicago's hands for a draft pick. Chicago has the deals done with their 3 kids, but cannot make them official because that'd put them over the cap. They are looking for teams to take big contracts off their team with picks / lesser prospects to compensate.

It is believed it's Sopel + 2nd for a lesser prospect from Toronto

Sounds good to me

PQ
11-22-2009, 12:55 AM
If we are to take on salary from overpaid players, it should be a forward. How many more defensemen can we acquire?!

And NO to Schenn for Filatov. That guy will be a KHL star.

number17
11-22-2009, 12:57 AM
True, but you can't be all that picky if you're taking on salaries ...

A 2nd from Chicago really isn't much though ... it's close to a 3rd. I hope there's something else coming our way.

PQ
11-22-2009, 01:01 AM
Why can't we be picky? We are doing THEM a favour here.

Mitchell for Sharp's 4 million contract done and done

MyNameIsJonas
11-22-2009, 01:05 AM
Why can't we be picky? We are doing THEM a favour here.

Mitchell for Sharp's 4 million contract done and done

Don't be stupid.

There are 29 teams in the NHL that would pay a premium for a Patrick Sharp.

I have no problem tossing in a 2nd round pick along with Sopel, for a c level prospect or a 5th round pick. Think of the McCabe deal.

But for Versteeg, Buff, Sharp, or Barker the Hawks will get value.

and while we're at it, while the Hawks may be desperate in the offseason, they aren't now and there is arguably no team more desperate than the Toronto Maple Leafs

number17
11-22-2009, 01:09 AM
Well, this is not a hockey deal, and we don't need a Sopel on the ice, so we are not desperate for this team.

And that's why I said don't be picky - because salary dump deals are not hockey deals for the most part. Of course, ideally Toronto would rather take a forward, but if I get a better pick for a dman then I'd take a dman. All Burke cares about is the pick coming back.

PQ
11-22-2009, 01:10 AM
Leafs could be desperate for a forward or a goaltender, but not Brent Sopel of all people.

MyNameIsJonas
11-22-2009, 01:15 AM
Leafs could be desperate for a forward or a goaltender, but not Brent Sopel of all people.

The issue isnt getting Sopel for Toronto. It's aquiring a pick for money more or less.

As far as Sopel the player goes, i would imagine if you did aquire him Mr Exelby would be introduced to Mr Waiver wire almost immediately afterwards.

And just for your info Sopel has actaullyplayed well this year

PQ
11-22-2009, 01:16 AM
Well, this is not a hockey deal, and we don't need a Sopel on the ice, so we are not desperate for this team.

And that's why I said don't be picky - because salary dump deals are not hockey deals for the most part. Of course, ideally Toronto would rather take a forward, but if I get a better pick for a dman then I'd take a dman. All Burke cares about is the pick coming back.


Sopel earns 2.5 mil this year and 2 million the next. Granted a portion of his salary for this season has already been paid, we are still going to be paying 3 million + for a 2nd round draft pick?

Last deadline we paid 500k for a 4th rounder which was fine.. but 3-4 mil? That's too much even if the Leafs do have money coming out of their ass.

Assuming this is strictly a contract deal, we should wait until the summer so that Chicago pays off Sopel's 2.5 mil for this year and then paying 2 mil for their draft pick would be worth to consider. IMO.

zeke
11-22-2009, 01:16 AM
If you trade Schenn for Filatov, I think CBJ will actually go for it.

Anyways, for a change of topic - it was mentioned Burke has offered to take Sopel off Chicago's hands for a draft pick. Chicago has the deals done with their 3 kids, but cannot make them official because that'd put them over the cap. They are looking for teams to take big contracts off their team with picks / lesser prospects to compensate.

It is believed it's Sopel + 2nd for a lesser prospect from Toronto

I heard the commentators saying this, but it doesn't make any sense.

The contract extensions have nothing to do with this year's cap.

They can announce them without any consequence. They don't have to worry about next year's cap until next year.

PQ
11-22-2009, 01:18 AM
The issue isnt getting Sopel for Toronto. It's aquiring a pick for money more or less.

As far as Sopel the player goes, i would imagine if you did aquire him Mr Exelby would be introduced to Mr Waiver wire almost immediately afterwards.

And just for your info Sopel has actaullyplayed well this year

Exelby's already enjoying food served in the Leafs press box and this with Komisarek injured.. I'm glad that Sopel's played well. I don't have anything against him, it's just that we've already got a plethora of defensemen and as I said above, his contract isn't worth picking up a 2nd round pick..

Exit716
11-22-2009, 01:19 AM
There were two young Flyers that didn't start producing until Hitchcock left, Richards and Carter.
Maybe it's not Filatov, but Captain Kangaroo that's the problem.

MyNameIsJonas
11-22-2009, 01:21 AM
Exelby's already enjoying food served in the Leafs press box and this with Komisarek injured.. I'm glad that Sopel's played well. I don't have anything against him, it's just that we've already got a plethora of defensemen and as I said above, his contract isn't worth picking up a 2nd round pick..

What about Sopel and a 2nd for Exelby and a prospect?.

Is Garnet in his last year?

Keep in mind, f im not mistaken we have your 2nd this year too....which could be like a first

JackBurton
11-22-2009, 01:25 AM
Ugh. No more defensemen please.

PQ
11-22-2009, 01:25 AM
Filatov did have a goal and 2 assists in his first game in Russia today, but I think he's just too soft for the NHL

PQ
11-22-2009, 01:29 AM
What about Sopel and a 2nd for Exelby and a prospect?.

Is Garnet in his last year?

Keep in mind, f im not mistaken we have your 2nd this year too....which could be like a first

Yeah, Exelby's in his last year.

This deal would still have us paying close to 3 million + a prospect for your 2nd round pick, which is still pretty expensive.. You are not guaranteed to draft a sure fire NHLer in the first round even, let alone the 2nd, so paying all that money may be irrational.

GGpX
11-22-2009, 01:35 AM
There were two young Flyers that didn't start producing until Hitchcock left, Richards and Carter.
Maybe it's not Filatov, but Captain Kangaroo that's the problem.

:smilielol5:

LeafGm
11-22-2009, 02:15 AM
If you trade Schenn for Filatov, I think CBJ will actually go for it.

Anyways, for a change of topic - it was mentioned Burke has offered to take Sopel off Chicago's hands for a draft pick. Chicago has the deals done with their 3 kids, but cannot make them official because that'd put them over the cap. They are looking for teams to take big contracts off their team with picks / lesser prospects to compensate.

It is believed it's Sopel + 2nd for a lesser prospect from Toronto
Sounds like a bad deal to me. Chicago would have to do better than a 2nd rounder to make absorbing a 2.3M cap hit this year and next year worthwhile. Especially for another mediocre overpaid defenseman.

Volcanologist
11-22-2009, 02:17 AM
Too much for a low-ish 2nd round pick.

If it was a bigger deal where we have to take Sopel to get something better, then maybe.

mbow30
11-22-2009, 02:26 AM
I heard the commentators saying this, but it doesn't make any sense.

The contract extensions have nothing to do with this year's cap.

They can announce them without any consequence. They don't have to worry about next year's cap until next year.

Nah, to sign players to extensions you can't exceed the current season's cap level in the following season.

the Hawks have something like $40mn committed without those three, who will combined by about $17mn (if the reports are correct), so signing them would put them over the cap level. they need to clear cap room for next year before making the trade -- even if it's (as an example) swapping Byfuglien's $3mn for Stempniak's $2.5.

MindzEye
11-22-2009, 02:46 AM
To eat that much salary next year on a depth defender, that's gotta be Chicago's first coming the other way, or a larger deal including Sharp on discount.

We've got enough expiring contracts to make it worth their while, but they're going to have to lose a lot more than just Sopel's deal to be able to announce those 3 big ass extensions.

Habsy
11-22-2009, 02:47 AM
I'll give you a first to take Gomez.

MindzEye
11-22-2009, 02:51 AM
It would cost your next 5 if I was GM...1 for every year he's signed for.

Oh, and you'd have to take Blake & Finger.

MindzEye
11-22-2009, 02:52 AM
sufficed to say, I don't want him anywhere near my hockey team

Montana
11-22-2009, 06:16 AM
Schenn for Filatov?......in a hearbeat.

Cheech
11-22-2009, 07:03 AM
...filatov is in russia.

Wayward DP
11-22-2009, 08:19 AM
Stempniak for Byfuglien sounds really interesting. Not sure if that would make it off the ground, but the salaries are comparable and Stemper comes off the books this year.

Maybe his quick start and a few early points could fool Chicago's GM into thinking he's a decent player.

Buff or Sharp would be my ideal target if we're dealing with the Hawks. Don't need any more bottom pair D

Hoss
11-22-2009, 12:59 PM
I'd actually take Buf over Sharp. His age and type of game is needed on this leafs roster. Although I don't think Chicago wants just UFA players, they want those for sure but would love to just pick up draft picks, which I don't think we really want to give up more right now.

Just like I think Stemp, and Stajan will go for draft picks OR a good player on a contract they cant afford (like Byfuglian) (but Chicago will want somehting in return besides cap space)

Volcanologist
11-22-2009, 02:10 PM
Lot of people scouting Anaheim, apparently, including us. Any interest in Lupul maybe?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Lupul just isn't an upgrade over what the Leafs currently have. He'd be another highly paid 2nd liner.

He's good for 50-60 points and at 26, he still might have some more upside, but he's signed until 2013 at 4.25 mill a year. That money should be going to legit 1st liners, not more 2nd liners.

Unless the Ducks are willing take some of the Leafs bigger contracts, I'd pass.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 03:32 PM
I think it was Lebrun who mentioned Peter Mueller may be on the outs with Phoenix. He's really struggling right now, but he's a big, talented guy with a lot of potential who already has a 50+ point season under his belt.

Phoenix could use a dman. Their #1 right now is a 36 year old Adrian Aucoin.

JohnnyHolmes
11-22-2009, 03:32 PM
He would be your 2nd best player and it's not even close.

You guys really are delusional.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 03:37 PM
He would be your 2nd best player and it's not even close.

You guys really are delusional.

He is currently tied with the 6th highest scoring Leafs forward (Lee Stempniak). And he will soon be passed by Kessel.

I think you need to start following hockey. He isn't having a great season.

zeke
11-22-2009, 03:44 PM
He would be your 2nd best player and it's not even close.

You guys really are delusional.

who? Joffrey Lupul?

the one dimensional 50-point forward?

ya no.

JohnnyHolmes
11-22-2009, 05:03 PM
no no...

He won't suck until AFTER he becomes a Leaf.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 05:04 PM
Burke isn't trading for a 4+ mill 2nd/3rd liner.

He already traded him away once.

mikedumar
11-22-2009, 05:11 PM
tlusty and skille are being thrown around as part of the trade idea, both teams moving players that have enough talent but dont seem to be cracking it on their existing team

JohnnyHolmes
11-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Yeah for Chris Pronger...

Burke must hate the guy.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 05:14 PM
Yeah for Chris Pronger...

Burke must hate the guy.

Burke raped Edmonton.

MindzEye
11-22-2009, 05:15 PM
Tlusty > Skille

If Burke brings in Skille because he's got a hard on for American players at the cost of the younger, more talented Tlusty, I'm not going to be pleased.

If Tlusty is the centrepiece of a Sharp deal though, and we're getting Skille back as part of that without giving up anything else but an expiring contract or two (Stempniak??), then I could live with it.

zeke
11-22-2009, 05:41 PM
ugh. Tlusty for Skille would be brutal.

Montana
11-22-2009, 05:56 PM
Tlusty + Stajan for Sharp and Sopel.

zeke
11-22-2009, 06:00 PM
Antropov > Sharp

MindzEye
11-22-2009, 06:03 PM
Is it okay if I want both on my team?

Antropov - XXXXX - Kessel
Blake - Grabo - Sharp

Very, very nice top 6 depending on who slots into that #1 centre position

zeke
11-22-2009, 06:06 PM
That Top-6 costs over $20 mil with a slot left to fill, and still only has one PPG threat.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 06:08 PM
19 yrs old (NHL)
Tlusty: 58 gms, 16 pts, 10:55 TOI (82 gms, 23 pts)
Skille: N/A

19 yrs old (AHL)
Tlusty: 14 gms, 18 pts (82 gms, 105 pts)
Skille: 9 gms, 8 pts (82 gms, 73 pts)


20 yrs old (NHL)
Tlusty: 14 gms, 4 pts, 12:42 TOI (82 gms, 23 pts)
Skille: 16 gms, 5 pts, 11:59 TOI (82 gms, 26 pts)

20 yrs old (AHL)
Tlusty: 66 gms, 66 pts (82 gms, 82 pts)
Skille: 59 gms, 34 pts (82 gms, 47 pts)


21 yrs old (NHL)
Tlusty: 2 gms, 0 pts, 12:13 TOI (82 gms, 0 pts)
Skille: 8 gms, 1 pts, 9:26 TOI (82 gms, 10 pts)

21 yrs old (AHL)
Tlusty: 15 gms, 13 pts (82 gms, 71 pts)
Skille: 58 gms, 45 pts (82 gms, 64 pts)


22 yrs old (NHL)
Tlusty: N/A
Skille: 5 gms, 2 pts, 7:22 TOI (82 gms, 33 pts)

22 yrs old (AHL)
Tlusty: N/A
Skille: 12 gms, 6 pts (82 gms, 41 pts)

leafman101
11-22-2009, 06:22 PM
I'd like to pick up a guy like Skille. A big guy, who can bang around on the third line, but has enough skill to pot 20+ goals, not unlike Andrew Ladd.

Wouldn't give up Tlusty for him thouhg.

And as for Sharp, Antropov may be > but not by a whole lot. Sharp would replace much of the offense the Leafs lost with Antropov. Both players are insanely better value at the $4 million range than Hagman and Blake.

MindzEye
11-22-2009, 06:25 PM
That Top-6 costs over $20 mil with a slot left to fill, and still only has one PPG threat.

I'd love to not have Blake on it, sure...I'd also like to have Kadri as our #2 centre and be able to trade Grabo.

But that it unfortunately out of our hands

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 06:26 PM
I'd like to pick up a guy like Skille. A big guy, who can bang around on the third line, but has enough skill to pot 20+ goals, not unlike Andrew Ladd.

Wouldn't give up Tlusty for him thouhg.



I agree.

Skille's still young enough that you can't write him off just yet. He has good size and he has the skillset that could make him a 20-25 goal scorer.

But giving up Tlusty would be overpaying. Tlusty has played better at the AHL level and he's done more at a younger age at the NHL level.

zeke
11-22-2009, 06:47 PM
Well, I don't want any of them at that price, but for the record.....


09/10

Blake: 21gms, 2gls, 14pts, -2, 22tk, 16:42 (82gms, 8gls, 55pts, -8, 86tk)[/i]
Sharp: 21gms, 6gls, 19pts, +7, 10tk, 18:13 (82gms, 23gls, 74pts, +27, 39tk)
Antro: 19gms, 1gls, 18pts, +9, 6tk, 17:52 (82gms, 4gls, 78pts, +39, 26tk)

08/09

Blake: 78gms, 25gls, 63pts, -2, 53tk, 18:20 (82gms, 27gls, 66pts, -2, 56tk)
Sharp: 61gms, 26gls, 44pts, +6, 22tk, 17:58 (82gms, 35gls, 59pts, +8, 30tk)
Antro: 81gms, 28gls, 59pts, -14, 35tk, 17:10 (82gms, 28gls, 60pts, -14, 36tk)

07/08

Blake: 82gms, 15gls, 52pts, -4, 42tk, 17:49 (82gms, 15gls, 52pts, -4, 42tk)
Sharp: 80gms, 36gls, 62pts, +23, 44tk, 18:47 (82gms, 37gls, 64pts, +24, 45tk)
Antro: 72gms, 26gls, 56pts, +10, 30tk, 20:06 (82gms, 30gls, 64pts, +11, 34tk)

06/07

Blake: 82gms, 40gls, 69pts, +1, 69tk, 18:06 (82gms, 40gls, 69pts, +1, 69tk)
Sharp: 80gms, 20gls, 35pts, -15, 35tk, 17:04 (82gms, 21gls, 36pts, -15, 36tk)
Antro: 54gms, 18gls, 33pts, +8, 23tk, 16:36 (82gms, 27gls, 50pts, +12, 35tk)


With the note that Sharp's sudden latish-career offensive surge came precisely at the same time he was moved to a line and PP unit alongside Toews and Kane.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 06:59 PM
No more money should be going to 2nd line players. All available resources should be going towards finding Kessel legit 1st liners to play with.

As much as I love Antro, Burke made the right decision in not re-signing him to that contract. It's not because Antropov isn't worth that kind of money, it's because the Leafs already have too many 2nd/3rd liners making 2-4 mill a year and another one of these contracts would hinder the Leafs chances of adding frontline talent in the future.

And I wouldn't overpay for Sharp. He's not the typical 1st liner who can drive a line. He's a guy like Tanguay who needs to be surrounded by great players in order to produce at a high level.

zeke
11-22-2009, 07:02 PM
I'd compare Sharp to Drury.

leafman101
11-22-2009, 07:10 PM
I like Sharp. He's a strong two way forward who can bury the puck to the tune of 35 goals a year. And I agree the Leafs have too many players paid like second liners, but I would have no problem paying them on the marlies, and upgrading the NHL roster.

Which in retrospect would have been a good move with Antropov.

number17
11-22-2009, 07:13 PM
Burke seems to realize Tlusty's potential from what I remember.

Burke has said in interviews that Tlusty's got talents and he's showing that dominating in the AHL, but everytime he's called up he has what Burke calls a 'stage fright' problem, and he needs to get over that.

So he seems to get what's the deal at Tlusty and won't throw him away for little in return

mikedumar
11-22-2009, 07:25 PM
skille would be an immediate fan favorite in toronto, along the lines of a roberts style player

he is a guy that goes hard to the net and can battle strong along the boards

PlayerToBeNamedLater
11-22-2009, 11:06 PM
Leafs can't afford to overpay for 3rd liners.

I don't mind bringing in Skille, but they shouldn't be giving up significant assets to get him.

BG
11-23-2009, 10:59 AM
Let's trade for both Skille and Ladd. Exactly the kind of muscle the team needs up front - when you've got these kinds of players it really changes the style of play of the entire team.

number17
11-23-2009, 11:14 AM
The Leafs need grit and muscle that can play on top 2 lines, not 3rd line.

BG
11-23-2009, 11:15 AM
One or both of Skill/Ladd can play in your top 6. Ladd can play there now - he's really being underutilized in Chicago.

leafman101
11-23-2009, 11:19 AM
Or the Leafs could not trade anyone and call up Hanson.

number17
11-23-2009, 11:27 AM
I am not sold on Ladd or Skille. Skille is more of an unknown, but Ladd doesn't seem like anything more than a 15G 45-50Pts forward.

leafman101
11-23-2009, 11:29 AM
Ladd is exactly the kind of player the Leafs need to play the style of hockey they are trying to.

zeke
11-23-2009, 11:34 AM
Trying to describe either Skille or Ladd as legitimately tough or even super-gritty is a stretch.

BG
11-23-2009, 12:12 PM
Trying to describe either Skille or Ladd as legitimately tough or even super-gritty is a stretch.

Both are willing to play a physical game and have the talent to put up some points. Not talking Getzlaf here, but certainly the type of player that can compliment a scoring line.

number17
11-23-2009, 12:16 PM
Both players are high picks, but at this point I'm just not so convinced about their 'scoring' part ... and I'm not all that convinced about the 'gritty' part neither. And Ladd a lot more so than Skille.

I guess it's another example how over-rated draft picks can be.

MyNameIsJonas
11-23-2009, 01:28 PM
Both players are high picks, but at this point I'm just not so convinced about their 'scoring' part ... and I'm not all that convinced about the 'gritty' part neither. And Ladd a lot more so than Skille.

I guess it's another example how over-rated draft picks can be.

Ladd would easily be top 6 in Toronto, i think he would put up Ponikarovsky numbers but actaully bring a physical element to the game, and actaully head to the net unlike Poni.

Skille is an enigma. Cause the argument can be made that he hasnt earned the right to play with the big club, yet at the same time you can argue that he hasnt been given a legit chance due to the talent up front and cap issues. Overall i would'nt be opposed to dealing him but Chicago is certainly not desperate to give him away either

number17
11-23-2009, 01:34 PM
really? I thought I'd be more ready to trade Ladd than Skille if I were Chicago.

Not having seen Skille play, and not having seen Ladd much neither, what's your scouting report on these 2 guys?

I really don't see much in Ladd ... if given top 6 minutes, I see him as a 20G 45Pts forward max ... yes, he may be more physical than Poni, but if I have to give up something for such a small upgrade, I think I'd pass.

leafman101
11-23-2009, 01:37 PM
From Dreger:


Hawks have presented the Leafs and other teams with different trad options. Sopel and a prospect, or Sopel and draft pick. Stay tuned.

As long as Sopel (or finger) is sent down, I'd have no problem taking a player/pick to take on his contract.