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View Full Version : Reimer vs. Bernier



zeke
01-09-2011, 11:11 AM
Our mysteriously unrated prospect vs. one of the most highly regarded goalie prospects in the world.

Size

J.Reimer (22): 6'2", 210lbs
J.Bernier (22): 5'11", 185lbs


NHL

J.Reimer (22-22): 4gms, .947sv%
J.Bernier (20-22): 19gms, .895sv%

AHL

J.Reimer (20-22): 40gms, .920sv%
J.Bernier (19-21): 115gms, .927sv%

ECHL

J.Reimer (20-20): 28gms, .917sv%
J.Bernier (-------): -------

CHL

J.Reimer (17-19): 124gms, .912sv%
J.Bernier (16-19): 148gms, .908sv%

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Would you be happy if Burke traded Reimer for Bernier today?

I gotta think Burke would be all over that deal.

leafman101
01-09-2011, 11:18 AM
Yeah, Reimer has flown ridiculously under the radar. Any other 20 year old goalie prospect dominates the ECHL playoffs and wins MVP and the hockeysfutures of the world are blowing their load in their pants.

JaysCyYoung
01-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Reimer has had the misfortune of playing for some awful, awful hockey teams over the course of his career. Of course, few noticed the fact that he was named the best goaltender in the WHL's Eastern Conference at one point despite playing for a horrifically bad Red Deer squad so there may be some merit to what zeke is saying...

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 11:23 AM
Yeah, Reimer has flown ridiculously under the radar. Any other 20 year old goalie prospect dominates the ECHL playoffs and wins MVP and the hockeysfutures of the world are blowing their load in their pants.

ECHL? I don't care how much a player dominates the ECHL, nobody blows their wads over them. That's not to say that a good or even great player can't come out of the ECHL... but they aren't going to be top ranked prospects.

leafman101
01-09-2011, 11:26 AM
Let me rephrase that. Any other 20 year old goalie with Reimer's track record who does that.

LeafGm
01-09-2011, 11:41 AM
It would be funny if after all the effort Burke expended signing his young free agent goalies, the one that ended up panning out was the John Ferguson Jr. draft pick that preceeded Burke here by two years, and has more often than not been treated like an afterthought.

zeke
01-09-2011, 11:44 AM
Reimer should never have been in the ECHL.

He was only there because we were dead set on making Pogge the goalie of the future, and giving him all the AHL starts.

as for trading for Bernier.....well, I'll just say I'm very wary of any goalie prospect under 6' nowadays.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 11:53 AM
as for trading for Bernier.....well, I'll just say I'm very wary of any goalie prospect under 6' nowadays.

Me too... very few can overcome their height. That's the biggest reason I was praying the Habs would keep Price over Halak.

LeafOfFaith
01-09-2011, 12:18 PM
Would you be happy if Burke traded Reimer for Bernier today?

I gotta think Burke would be all over that deal.

With the showing so far, I wouldn't trade Reimer for any other goalie right now, with the exception of Rask. He's been truly awesome to this point. His positioning is almost perfect. His reflexes are great, and he's lightning quick.

In fact, if this is what he will be like from here on out, I'll take him over Rask too.

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Please temper your expectations..

LeafOfFaith
01-09-2011, 12:42 PM
They are tempered.

Only saying that he's had a great start. If he can keep it up, he's as good as pretty much anyone.

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 12:46 PM
He's a young goalie and will have his struggles soon enough. I can guarantee he will not keep up a .947 save percentage.

But I do agree that he looks sharp in net and the early results are encouraging. It helps that the team has played very well in front of him so far.

zeke
01-09-2011, 12:51 PM
he won't keep up a .947sv%? bold call.

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 12:52 PM
he won't keep up a .947sv%? bold call.

Exactly. LOF said he'd take him over Rask if he kept this up.. I simply told him that he won't.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 12:59 PM
With the showing so far, I wouldn't trade Reimer for any other goalie right now, with the exception of Rask. He's been truly awesome to this point. His positioning is almost perfect. His reflexes are great, and he's lightning quick.

In fact, if this is what he will be like from here on out, I'll take him over Rask too.

Any other goalie??? Doesn't Reimer have 4 NHL games under his belt?

You wouldn't trade him for Price? Or like 20 other NHL goalies?

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 01:00 PM
Exactly. LOF said he'd take him over Rask if he kept this up.. I simply told him that he won't.

No no... he didn't say anything that ridiculous... he merely said that he wouldn't take any goalie OTHER THAN Rask for Reimer.

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 01:02 PM
In fact, if this is what he will be like from here on out, I'll take him over Rask too.
.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 01:16 PM
I saw that... he put stipulations on trading him for Rask. As for every other goalie in the league there were no conditions... just a flat out NO.

teeds
01-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Cream rises to the top.

Bleedsblue&white
01-09-2011, 01:31 PM
Crap floats too.
Just sayin.

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 01:35 PM
I saw that... he put stipulations on trading him for Rask. As for every other goalie in the league there were no conditions... just a flat out NO.

true true

LeafOfFaith
01-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Any other goalie??? Doesn't Reimer have 4 NHL games under his belt?

You wouldn't trade him for Price? Or like 20 other NHL goalies?

Why trade him for anyone right now? It's not like we gave him a tryout as he was walking by the ACC one day and thought he was good enough to give some games to.

He's excelled at every level, including the NHL so far. He looks flat out awesome. He certainly won't be able to keep up these lofty numbers, but he might just post top level stats over his career. Maybe better than the other guys.

Corky27
01-09-2011, 01:49 PM
At this point it wouldn't be a stretch to say he has a chance to be the best goalie we've had since Belfours game went south. Heck I think I could play better than most of the goalies we've had in here since then. We'll see though, he's new and probably still playing on a lot of adrenaline plus he will also get the 'free pass' for any mistakes he makes early on. Leaf fans love to give a guy just so many chances before they decide one way or another. At any rate it's good to see and hopefully he can keep it up.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 01:57 PM
Why trade him for anyone right now? It's not like we gave him a tryout as he was walking by the ACC one day and thought he was good enough to give some games to.

He's excelled at every level, including the NHL so far. He looks flat out awesome. He certainly won't be able to keep up these lofty numbers, but he might just post top level stats over his career. Maybe better than the other guys.

Well this is all hypothetical anyways, but.... why trade him right now? Because he is playing good hockey but the chance of him actually being the elite goalie he's been over the past 4 NHL games is extremely slim. I'm not saying that he isn't going to be an NHL caliber starter... or even a top half of the league starter... hell, he may actually end up being the best goalie in the league.

I just don't see the logic behind saying that you wouldn't trade a guy that was 3rd (at best) on your depth chart up until a couple games ago for any goalie in the league. That's like the Rangers not being willing to trade Derek Stepan for Crosby after he had a hattrick in his first NHL game. "He's excelled at every level and now he has scored a hattrick in every NHL game he's played in."

You honestly wouldn't trade Reimer for Price right now?

hockeylover
01-09-2011, 02:10 PM
Habspatrol, at some point you got this Price vs Reimer thing stuck in your head, I'm really not sure why. We also aren't counting on him keeping up the .947. You see, our other goalies can't even give us .900.

All we're saying is he probably deserved more respect for his track record than he's been given to this point.

Corky27
01-09-2011, 02:18 PM
Fans of other teams for some reason feel they have to step in and control our expectations or tell us what we should expect from a certain player. Just because when our expectations fall short they are repeatedly brought up and beaten like a dead horse. What about the players that we're right about? You never hear anything about them. Heck sometimes players exceed our expectations imagine that. I don't think anyone is ready to put Reims name on the vezina just yet but forgive us please for being a little excited about a guy who can come in on one of the leagues worst teams and post a .940 sv% in his first three games.

hockeylover
01-09-2011, 02:22 PM
All I know is that getting .910+ goaltending instead of .890 goaltending would help a lot. So far, so good.

Corky27
01-09-2011, 02:24 PM
It's probably fair to point out that the leafs have also scored 16 goals in the three games he's played so far. That makes it a hell of a lot easier for a goalie when he's got the goal support.

gilmour93forever
01-09-2011, 02:25 PM
Well this is all hypothetical anyways, but.... why trade him right now? Because he is playing good hockey but the chance of him actually being the elite goalie he's been over the past 4 NHL games is extremely slim. I'm not saying that he isn't going to be an NHL caliber starter... or even a top half of the league starter... hell, he may actually end up being the best goalie in the league.

I just don't see the logic behind saying that you wouldn't trade a guy that was 3rd (at best) on your depth chart up until a couple games ago for any goalie in the league. That's like the Rangers not being willing to trade Derek Stepan for Crosby after he had a hattrick in his first NHL game. "He's excelled at every level and now he has scored a hattrick in every NHL game he's played in."

You honestly wouldn't trade Reimer for Price right now?

That's just dumb, even taking it in the context that this thread has led up to a statement like that.

Obviously we make that move, but it NEVER EVER gets offered.

So stop trying to keep bringing it up. It's Reimer vs. Bernier as the thread was started before a little bit ridiculous of a comment was made.

Contextually I think he meant that it makes no sense for us to trade Reimer unless we get another good goalie who is also young and can grow with the team, a la Rask. I'm sure everyone here would jump all over Luongo, Lundqvist, Miller, etc. Price would also fit that bill, but it's ridiculous to consider a trade like that.

hockeylover
01-09-2011, 02:28 PM
True - though with our other goalie we scored 5 and only won by the skin of our teeth.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 02:36 PM
Habspatrol, at some point you got this Price vs Reimer thing stuck in your head, I'm really not sure why. We also aren't counting on him keeping up the .947. You see, our other goalies can't even give us .900.

All we're saying is he probably deserved more respect for his track record than he's been given to this point.

No no no no... you are completely misreading me. I never once even commented on Reimer at all. I know little to nothing about him and I assume that 99% of you are putting his play into proper perspective and are cautiously optimistic.

I assume that LOF is in the extreme minority when he says that he wouldn't trade Reimer for any goalie in the league besides MAYBE Rask.

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 02:39 PM
I assume that LOF is in the extreme minority when he says that he wouldn't trade Reimer for any goalie in the league besides MAYBE Rask.
Yea, normally I would bypass this statement if it was made by like HL or zeke or something.. but considering LOF's track record, I really believe he is serious when he says that. I also believe that he is serious in thinking that there is a possibility Reimer will keep up this level of play.

hockeylover
01-09-2011, 02:41 PM
Ah, OK. I reread his post. Carry on.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 02:41 PM
That's just dumb, even taking it in the context that this thread has led up to a statement like that.

Obviously we make that move, but it NEVER EVER gets offered.

So stop trying to keep bringing it up. It's Reimer vs. Bernier as the thread was started before a little bit ridiculous of a comment was made.

Contextually I think he meant that it makes no sense for us to trade Reimer unless we get another good goalie who is also young and can grow with the team, a la Rask. I'm sure everyone here would jump all over Luongo, Lundqvist, Miller, etc. Price would also fit that bill, but it's ridiculous to consider a trade like that.

That was the point. He literally said "No goalie besides Rask." I was only replying to LOF's comments. I was also only doing so with such a ridiculous premise because his statement was so ridiculous.

My original question was fair and pertinent to the thread. "would you trade Reimer for Bernier today?" I didn't even say whether or not I thought it would be a good trade... just curious what Leaf fans would think.
It was after that that LOF replied with "I wouldn't trade him for any goalie in the league besides maybe Rask."

hockeylover
01-09-2011, 02:44 PM
That said, I can see why someone might say they wouldn't trade Reimer period right now. His potential is probably higher than his trade value right now.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 02:52 PM
For sure... you can't trade him for what his market value is right now. However, if you got a crazy good offer for an established yet young top flight NHL goalie it would be too good to pass up.

So back to my original question. Would you trade Reimer for Bernier right now?

I gotta think that most of the league would choose Bernier. That doesn't make it the right deal mind you.

Or how about this. Would you trade him for any of these "good young goalies?" If so, which ones? I'll leave out the ones that I think are too far fetched.

Bobrovsky
Pavalec
Bernier
Quick
Neuvirth
Varlamov
Lindback
Schneider
Lehner

mbow30
01-09-2011, 02:55 PM
It's probably fair to point out that the leafs have also scored 16 goals in the three games he's played so far. That makes it a hell of a lot easier for a goalie when he's got the goal support.

i guess you could argue that there's less pressure. but he still made stops in those games when the game was close. and in the loss against the b's he still stopped 31 of 33.

i mean, that atlanta game was very similar to the blues game -- the leafs didn't really generate any more chances than the opposition, they just made their chances count. against the blues gustavsson got all the goal support a goalie could ask for and still, the blues got back into it and if not for an utterly ridiculous shootout goal might well have won the game.

reimer has been very good. he won't maintain a .947 sv%, but he has demonstrated that he can provide competent goaltending, at least in short spurts. now obviously there are question marks because he is young and relatively inexperienced. perhaps he has a yet-to-be-exploited hole in his game. maybe he won't be able to handle the workload of a starter. but early returns are promising. and what we have seen from him, despite all that goal support which he got in two of his three starts, is a hell of a lot better than anything we've seen from gustavsson or giguere this year.

LeafOfFaith
01-09-2011, 02:58 PM
That said, I can see why someone might say they wouldn't trade Reimer period right now. His potential is probably higher than his trade value right now.

Exactly my point.

gilmour93forever
01-09-2011, 02:59 PM
For sure... you can't trade him for what his market value is right now. However, if you got a crazy good offer for an established yet young top flight NHL goalie it would be too good to pass up.

So back to my original question. Would you trade Reimer for Bernier right now?

I gotta think that most of the league would choose Bernier. That doesn't make it the right deal mind you.

Or how about this. Would you trade him for any of these "good young goalies?" If so, which ones? I'll leave out the ones that I think are too far fetched.

Bobrovsky
Pavalec
Bernier
Quick
Neuvirth
Varlamov
Lindback
Schneider
Lehner

Doubtful, considering he's 22 and looking very composed in goal.

But I think you have to listen to and consider Quick and Bernier. But it doesn't make much sense for the teams to swap such comparable players when both have yet to succeed/struggle at the NHL level while being so successful elsewhere.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 03:03 PM
Oh yeah... there is almost no reason for any of those teams or the Leafs really to make such a swap... was just curious about how high everyone was on Reimer and the guys I listed.

hockeylover
01-09-2011, 03:04 PM
See, I still think you're missing the point of the thread Habspatrol. I don't think the point was to say no one would trade Reimer for Bernier. I think it was just to say that here's a goalie who has comparable stats to a 1st round goalie who's considered very good and hasn't been talked about very much at all despite that.

LeafOfFaith
01-09-2011, 03:05 PM
Well, I wouldn't trade Reimer for Bernier right now. No chance.

gilmour93forever
01-09-2011, 03:06 PM
See, I still think you're missing the point of the thread Habspatrol. I don't think the point was to say no one would trade Reimer for Bernier. I think it was just to say that here's a goalie who has comparable stats to a 1st round goalie who's considered very good and hasn't been talked about very much at all despite that.

Well that's the point, yes. He's just asking if we would trade for that 1st round goalie. Which is fair.

Not the thread's point, but an interesting question.

Cojo
01-09-2011, 03:11 PM
Not quite sure what is so good about Bernier besides the fact that he was drafted high.

His first season in the NHL was terrible. He played two good games last year. And currently is struggling again this year.

I'm not ready to say bust, but no i would not trade Reimer for Bernier at this point in time.

hockeylover
01-09-2011, 03:12 PM
Yeah, it's a fair question.

Not sure Allaire would be thrilled shipping out a 6'3" goalie for another 5'11" guy. Not really a fit under Allaire and doubt LA would be making that deal anyway.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 03:12 PM
See, I still think you're missing the point of the thread Habspatrol. I don't think the point was to say no one would trade Reimer for Bernier. I think it was just to say that here's a goalie who has comparable stats to a 1st round goalie who's considered very good and hasn't been talked about very much at all despite that.


Well that's the point, yes. He's just asking if we would trade for that 1st round goalie. Which is fair.

Not the thread's point, but an interesting question.

Pretty much.

Basically I know little to nothing about Reimer. I'm just curious about where he ranks among other goalies in his age group. It's in no way an attempt to put him down... in fact, seeing as I know very little about him it's bound to only move him up from where I probably would have had him ranked due to my ignorance.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 03:13 PM
Not quite sure what is so good about Bernier besides the fact that he was drafted high.

His first season in the NHL was terrible. He played two good games last year. And currently is struggling again this year.

I'm not ready to say bust, but no i would not trade Reimer for Bernier at this point in time.

Yeah things aren't looking great for Bernier these days. Someone could probably have him at a decent price.

gilmour93forever
01-09-2011, 03:14 PM
The biggest thing I like about Reimer is how calm he is when he is positioning himself. Smooth and relaxed in his first NHL games, whereas Gus has so much energy that he is shaky as a result of it.

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 03:16 PM
To be fair, if I remember correctly, Bernier was also extremely impressive in his first few NHL games..

Cojo
01-09-2011, 03:34 PM
If he was, he absolutely destroyed any of that in later games as his GAA in his first year was over 4.00

Preston_Mizzi
01-09-2011, 03:36 PM
If he was, he absolutely destroyed any of that in later games as his GAA in his first year was over 4.00

Yea, I forgot he played in 07.. I meant last year... 4 games, 3 wins, 1 shootout loss, .957 save percentage.

baldhedjer
01-09-2011, 04:22 PM
Bernier seems to have struggled with the backup role, which I don't believe he has had to deal with that much. He was very good for us last season in a fill in role when Quick was out for a stretch and he got night after night starts for awhile. I don't really see Lombardi putting either Quick or Bernier on the market this season, regardless.

Habspatrol
01-09-2011, 04:33 PM
There's something to be said for that. Most goalies seem to thrive on getting a lot of action. Most of the time a goalie need to either play his way out of a slump and ride out a hot streak.

baldhedjer
01-09-2011, 04:53 PM
Quick made a couple of really bad puck handling decisions last night, and let the Jackets back in the game. There seems to be somewhat of a fragile mindset in our net at the moment. I'm guessing that Quick will be starting Monday, and then we can see him head to head with Remier. Should be an interesting game.

zeke
01-09-2011, 04:55 PM
To be fair, if I remember correctly, Bernier was also extremely impressive in his first few NHL games..

as he should be. he's an excellent young goalie.

Montana
01-26-2014, 03:59 PM
Was just looking back through old posts, and found this 3 year old thread zeke had made when Reimer first arrived on the scene, and was a mere 4 games into his NHL career.

Crazy that all these years later we've literally got "Reimer vs Bernier" taking place in Toronto.



#zekestradamus