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PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-03-2011, 08:51 AM
Solid article on Kessel.

Not much talk about him this season, but he's played well in the preseason despite the noshows from his projected linemates.

It's pretty safe to say that he'll reach that 30 goal level for a 4th straight season, but if he can take the next step and get to that 40 goal level, it will make the Leafs job of making the playoffs a little easier.




Phil Kessel’s philosophy of life is simple. And like most philosophies of life, hard to realize.

“Live each day to its fullest, don’t get wrapped up too much in silly stuff . . . relax, have fun, don’t get too uptight,” Kessel said, rambling off a host of stay-positive mantras after another training-camp workout with the Leafs this week.

And Kessel, who has had a reputation within some circles of the Toronto media for being uptight and brittle, may actually be following his own philosophy. He’s showing his fun side more than ever to his teammates. In fact, he’s taken charge of team fun lately.

“He has a great place and he has the guys over for football games,” good friend Tyler Bozak says. “There’s a lot of chirping going on. It can get pretty vocal on who wins and who loses, but Phil treats us great, he always has good food and stuff for us. He’s kind of coming up with ideas to do things in the dressing room, and they’re good ones . . . we usually end up doing them.”

Bozak and Kessel were thrust into a somewhat difficult on-ice partnership last season, with Bozak, a rookie centre, expected to complement Kessel’s high-octane game the way Marc Savard did in Boston. But along the way, they became good buddies, so much so that teammates dubbed them “Bert and Ernie” after the famous puppet friends from Sesame Street.

And consider this assessment of Kessel from teammate Colby Armstrong.

“He loves golf and fishing, he’s quiet, a simple guy, T-shirt and sweatpants. He’s really a softie, good natured, he likes everyone, never has a bad thing to say about anyone. He’d do anything for anyone on the team, never judges anyone . . . a super guy,” Armstrong says.

Armstrong, like Bozak, also mentions Kessel’s new role as team social convenor. Is this the same Kessel with the prickly reputation?

“I’m not like, I don’t like to say overly shy . . . with people I know. It’s easy, I’m very talkative,” Kessel says. “But I’m not happy when we lose so I don’t say much, I don’t like to talk about it. But anyone can talk to me, I’m approachable.”

The word “shy” often pops into the conversation when teammates talk about Kessel. Bozak and Armstrong, for instance, say Kessel’s shyness is often mistaken for aloofness.

Kessel certainly isn’t chatty after losses. Or when he’s in a scoring slump. Like most pro athletes, he’s competitive by nature.

Kessel grew up in an athletic family in Madison, Wis. His father, Phil Sr., was a college quarterback with Northern Michigan University in the late 1970s; his mother, Kathy, ran track in college; brother Blake is with the Philadelphia Flyers; and sister Amanda plays in the U.S. national women’s hockey program.

The siblings began playing hockey outdoors on Lake Mendota, which borders Madison. Eventually, the in-family shinny would turn into a competition of some kind, with older brother Phil usually issuing a challenge or making a bet on something.

“I try not to be that way but everything I do is a competition,” says Kessel, 23. “My brother, my sister, my girlfriend, they all know if I lose, I’m sour. I’m close with them, we’re a close family . . . and we all like to do other sports. I liked to play soccer when I was younger and (my brother and sister) are both good golfers and good hockey players, so it’s always a competition between us.”

But even though Kessel enjoys going head to head with family members, he is fiercely protective of them too.

“It was always fun being with Phil, he would take care of us really well, always looking out for us,” says Blake Kessel. “He’d make sure we’re getting everything we need, take us out to lunch. He would definitely do anything for us. He’s always the first one to ask if we need anything.

“He gave me his old car,” Blake added. “It was an Escalade truck. That was pretty cool.”

In Wisconsin, home of the Green Bay Packers, football reigns supreme and Kessel, like everyone else in his community, grew up watching the Packers on Sunday. But hockey was always Kessel’s sport — he developed his feared snap shot firing pucks into a net “that was always around” the house — and it’s around hockey and hockey players that he finds his comfort level.

“He’s usually pretty outgoing with his tight group,” Blake Kessel says. “Whenever he gets comfortable, that’s when he can relax.”


http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/1063298--shy-kessel-finally-finding-his-comfort-zone

PKForce81
10-03-2011, 10:51 AM
Phil is a good guy and a heck of a player..even though it's frustrating watching him at times when he's struggling..Hopefully he'll do a good job for us this season.

CRL
10-03-2011, 11:12 AM
oh and Happy Birthday to Phil

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-09-2011, 12:33 AM
http://cameronfrye.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/hackeynight.png

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/243041/star-wars-han-solo-kessel-run.jpg

Jeremy
10-14-2011, 12:07 AM
A trip down memory lane ...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=291601

Cheaf
10-14-2011, 07:10 PM
Don't care much for the fluffy stuff. Kessel looks poised to breakout this season though. If he keeps that effort level up, he'll fulfill his promise.

Kritter
10-14-2011, 07:38 PM
In our Fantrax pool... Kessel is the top FP/G player in the league right now.
Just saying.

With Phaneuf at #4 and Lupul at #6.
:thumbsup(22):

JackBurton
10-14-2011, 11:51 PM
A trip down memory lane ...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=291601

This trade has my vote for the 'Worst Trade Ever' award. Without someone like Mark Savard to set him up, Kessel will be lucky to get 10-15 goals this year (in 65-70 games).

Heh. Remember that.

And why the **** are people still commenting on that article.

Jeremy
10-14-2011, 11:58 PM
Was the guy who made that comment a Habs Fan or Sens fan?

JackBurton
10-15-2011, 12:01 AM
Not sure.

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 12:13 AM
It had to be one or the other.

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 12:15 AM
I did some research. It appears the comment was made by a Jets fan. User name: BringBackTheJetsNow

SundinsTooth
10-15-2011, 10:48 AM
I did some research. It appears the comment was made by a Jets fan. User name: BringBackTheJetsNowhttp://bracesbysanjoseorthodontist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/01/cyber-sleuth-winner-orthodontist-san-jose/CyberSleuth_300px_no-bkgd.png

leaffan2005
10-15-2011, 11:40 AM
Phil is ready for prime time.

You can just tell with his effort level thus far that he is starting to figure it out. Having said that we've seen bursts like this from him in the past and the key will be to see if he can keep it up and avoid those long cold streaks. Doing things on the ice to help the team other than scoring (like that shift he had at the end of the Senators game) will help as a lot of these goal-less streaks tend to get to players who feel their only contribution to the team is scoring and they get frustrated that they aren't doing that, leading to a loss of confidence and the player maybe trying to do too much.

If he has figured it out, write him down for 40/70 easy with the potential for more depending on if the tin man can get back into action.

JaysCyYoung
10-15-2011, 06:37 PM
The one thing that has me really encouraged that Kessel is just about ready to step up and become an elite forward in this league is the fact that he's a lot more committed in all three zones than at any other point of his career thus far. From the second-half of last season into training camp of this year Kessel has been a lot more involved defensively and made a greater effort to play in the high percentage areas. A more committed Kessel on the defensive end is an encouraging sign to see to say the least.

He's obviously never going to be a bruiser physically by any stretch of the imagination, but it's demonstrative of his commitment to being a better player that he hasn't simply rested on his laurels and waited for the game to come to him, but has taken an active initiative to go into the danger zones and try and fetch the puck out for himself. In each of the first two games that the Leafs have played to date he's mixed it up along the boards and sought to gain puck possession of his own accord. If he keeps on making little adjustments such as that and keeps up the additional effort he will not just be a lethal one-dimensional offensive option for the Leafs, but a much more well-rounded and valuable player period.

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 06:42 PM
Well said JCY! Kessel is on his way to becoming a more whole player.

SundinsTooth
10-15-2011, 07:39 PM
more whole? unpossible. :)

blacksheep
10-15-2011, 09:12 PM
Flames give up the lead. Phil ****ing Kessel, baby!

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 09:18 PM
**** Seguin!

SundinsTooth
10-15-2011, 10:30 PM
1858

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-15-2011, 10:40 PM
3 gms, 5 gls, 8 pts, +7


Not a bad start.

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 10:44 PM
All-star this season for Kess?

JaysCyYoung
10-15-2011, 10:45 PM
Post-season All-Star Team or All-Star Game?

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 10:47 PM
I was thinking All-Star game.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-15-2011, 10:51 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2787/4157523410_f00f184ae2_o.jpg

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 10:53 PM
Dr. Phil!

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-15-2011, 10:58 PM
It's a good thing media and fans didn't come to any rash conclusions about this trade. I mean, it would've been really silly to rush to judgements about a deal involving a 22 year old and draft picks. It was wise of all the quality hockey people out there to take the wait and see approach regarding this deal instead of judging it within 1 day of it's completion. Thank god we have such top notch hockey people telling it how it really is.

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 11:00 PM
Yeah mang ... let me ask you something ... how do you compare Kessel to Corey Perry?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-15-2011, 11:12 PM
They're different players.

Perry is a lot bigger, and that size comes in handy for him. Kessel's playing style is sort of a mix between Mogilny and Kariya imo.

Jeremy
10-15-2011, 11:14 PM
They actually are almost the same weight, but Perry is 3 inches taller.

Mega
10-15-2011, 11:17 PM
Perry is nasty to play against.

zeke
10-17-2011, 11:27 AM
Phil Kessel will be named NHL's first star of the week today.
mirtle 21 mins
more retweet favorite reply

SundinsTooth
10-17-2011, 12:05 PM
Congrats Phil....damn that's awesome.

Volcanologist
10-17-2011, 12:13 PM
And he won it over golden boy Tavares, too.

LeafGm
10-17-2011, 12:22 PM
And he won it over golden boy Tavares, too.
Rightfully so too. Phil scored his 5 goals and 8 points in one fewer game than Tavares, he's got a better +/- and one of Tavares' goals was an empty netter.

zeke
10-17-2011, 12:24 PM
I was scared they were gonna give it to JT, but I trusted that even they couldn't look past Phil having the same stats in one less game, and the leafs 3-0 record.

leafman101
10-17-2011, 12:40 PM
The American Crosby.

Metalleaf
10-17-2011, 01:10 PM
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee152/Metalleaf24/Hockey/michael_jackson-thriller-cover.jpg

Artnes
10-17-2011, 01:12 PM
I was scared they were gonna give it to JT, but I trusted that even they couldn't look past Phil having the same stats in one less game, and the leafs 3-0 record.

Phil has had some nicer goals as well. The first goal against Calgary and the top cheese snipe against Ottawa were beauties

Jeremy
10-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Kess is leading the NHL in +/-

number17
10-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Kypreos called Kessel "Ovechkin-like" with his performance in the Calgary game.

Jeremy
10-17-2011, 02:22 PM
My bad ... Kess is actually tied for the NHL lead in +/- ... with Phaneuf!

TimHorton
10-17-2011, 02:26 PM
The most encouraging thing with Phil so far is that he's working hard even when he doesn't have the puck. He's battling and getting his nose dirty. When his inevitable slump comes, and it will, I'm hoping the hard work stays and he can limit the slump to 3-4 games instead of the 8-10 of previous years.

number17
10-17-2011, 02:43 PM
The first slump Kessel gets into will be the real big test for him this year.

Getting out of a slump has a lot to do with himself obviously, but I'm also sure getting good linemates will also help. Remember when he first came to Toronto he was centered by Stajan ... last season he was centered by the then terrible Bozak, and had Stempniak on his wing? Lupul has had good chemistry with Kessel since he got here, Bozak has been much better this season, and whenever Connolly comes back, either himself or an improved Bozak or even potentially Kadri down the road, will be a big improvement in terms of linemates and people who can feed him gimme's to boost his confidence and end his goal scoring droughts.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-17-2011, 02:52 PM
I agree with everything that has been said thus far. It is so exciting to see the commitment and dedication he has shown thus far at rounding out all aspects of his game. Previously he was weak defensively and a very soft player on the puck. Now, he is the opposite. He is battling hard for pucks, he is back checking and paying the price for success.

We never saw that before, Kessel paying the price.

So yes, when he hits a slump because he is working hard, grinding it out and willing to do some dirty work, his slumps should be shorter than the 10-15 games one of last year.

I always forget how young he is. He is still developing. Though, its hard to have patients sometimes when you consider the magnitude of the trade he was involved in and the state of the team. It is not fair to a young player like Kessel but it is what it is. Luckily for us he doesn't appear to have folded under the pressure, he is actually working hard to improve. That to me is the best sign of all.

number17
10-17-2011, 02:56 PM
All that said, Seguin, whom Kessel will be compared to the rest of his career, has also been off to a very good start. He's been PPG and been Boston's best offensive player thus far in the early season.

TimHorton
10-17-2011, 03:02 PM
It's such lazy journalism to compare the two (not a shot at you 17 but rather the media in general.)

LeafGm
10-17-2011, 03:22 PM
Well, we can be glad Kessel's off to such a great start, because if he wasn't, I'm sure the media would gleefully be putting Seguin's stats alongside Kessel's on the front page of the sports section.

Montana
10-17-2011, 03:30 PM
Can't wait to see the kind of room Connolly is gonna open up for Phil..

JackBurton
10-17-2011, 11:35 PM
I wanted to scream listening to Jeff Blair's show today with Michael Grange. They were going on about Colorado's elite talent and said Kessel isn't in the same league as Paul Statsny or Landeskog.

teeds
10-18-2011, 12:13 AM
I wanted to scream listening to Jeff Blair's show today with Michael Grange. They were going on about Colorado's elite talent and said Kessel isn't in the same league as Paul Statsny or Landeskog.


Who are those guys anyways? And Landeskog is a nice player, but I don't see any sniping ability in him. Saw him in Kitchener quite a few times. He was solid, real solid.

number17
10-18-2011, 10:10 AM
I wanted to scream listening to Jeff Blair's show today with Michael Grange. They were going on about Colorado's elite talent and said Kessel isn't in the same league as Paul Statsny or Landeskog.yeah ... just stop listening to those shows if you don't want you blood pressure to go up.

Kessel is not elite talent ...
Leafs do not have 1 player in the top 90 list in the NHL ...
Last night's loss showed the Leafs' weakness and they will fall short of making the playoff again ...
Last season's 2nd half was a mirage because they played with no pressure ...

on and on and on and on ...

Wayward DP
10-18-2011, 10:18 AM
I spent more time last night yelling at the 'panel' than the Leafs play during the hockey game (and I'm a pretty good TV-yeller during play usually). Kypreos is such a dolt, and MacLean might be even worse. Just absolutely embarrassing the pathetic hockey analysis that goes on on Sportsnet. Complete bozos just talking out of their ass.

Much of what sportsnet has done recently has definitely elevated them to being a real threat and competitor to TSN, but until they replace the morons on their hockey panel their hockey coverage won't be even close. Amateur hour all season long with those morons.

number17
10-18-2011, 10:21 AM
That's why you get a PVR ... start the game 40 min late, fast forward through both intermissions and you'll enjoy the game a lot more! :)

Wayward DP
10-18-2011, 10:23 AM
That's why you get a PVR ... start the game 40 min late, fast forward through both intermissions and you'll enjoy the game a lot more! :)

After the first I couldn't take it anymore... took the dog out for a 30 min walk, set up the PVR, didn't have to watch the bozos from then on.

Having a PVR has spoiled me though, I almost never watch any commercials anymore.

Volcanologist
10-18-2011, 11:14 AM
It's not even "hockey analysis", they're just doing what they have to do to get people talking about them and their show.

If saying something silly like "Kessel isn't in Landeskog's league" will do that, then giddyup.

Artnes
10-18-2011, 12:06 PM
If Kessel doesn't manage to get a point next game the topic will be Kessel starts his annual slump, lets take a poll to see how long it lasts.

Corky27
10-18-2011, 12:24 PM
I feel the same way when people say Bozak sucks. Most people don't really know what they're talking about.

Artnes
10-18-2011, 12:34 PM
I mentioned to Metal last night, 85% of the Leaf fan base are a bunch of twats, Its embarrassing to be associated with them

SENSible
10-18-2011, 12:35 PM
It's such lazy journalism to compare the two (not a shot at you 17 but rather the media in general.)

Agreed, especially since he was traded for 3 players not 1.

That being said, Kessel has been awesome so far this year and if he can keep it up the deal will be a push.

LeafGm
10-18-2011, 12:47 PM
I wanted to scream listening to Jeff Blair's show today with Michael Grange. They were going on about Colorado's elite talent and said Kessel isn't in the same league as Paul Statsny or Landeskog.
Just goes to show the focus of our "journalists" is more about generating controversy and pissing off Leaf fans with the theory being that'll generate ratings/more readers etc., than it is about actually doing solid fact-based reporting. That's why James Mirtle of the Globe was so refreshing last year, but after some time on the job even he's starting to slip into usual Toronto sports reporter behaviour.

zeke
10-18-2011, 01:24 PM
Agreed, especially since he was traded for 3 players not 1.

That being said, Kessel has been awesome so far this year and if he can keep it up the deal will be a push.

amazing that Kessel has to do so much just to make the deal a push for Toronto, while the assets given up don't have to do anything at all to make it a clear win for Boston.

blacksheep
10-18-2011, 01:27 PM
heh.

Artnes
10-18-2011, 01:27 PM
But if you read reports out of Boston Seguin should notch a minimum of 60 and may push 80 pts this season...

Wayward DP
10-18-2011, 01:28 PM
Oh yeah Seguin will easily outscore Kessel this year and every year to come...

blacksheep
10-18-2011, 01:29 PM
Of course. Homers overvalue their players on every team.
Wasn't Berezin supposed to be Mogilny lite?

Artnes
10-18-2011, 02:10 PM
Berezin was glimpse of what Grabo was going to become

number17
10-18-2011, 02:26 PM
Seguin has been off to a good start too, but we'll talk about the trade again when Seguin scores 30G ok?

It's ridiculous everybody kindda assumes it's just a matter of time when Seguin will be better than Kessel, and Kessel would never improve when he just turned 24 this month.

SENSible
10-18-2011, 02:49 PM
Seguin has been off to a good start too, but we'll talk about the trade again when Seguin scores 30G ok?

It's ridiculous everybody kindda assumes it's just a matter of time when Seguin will be better than Kessel, and Kessel would never improve when he just turned 24 this month.

PSST....the Leafs gave up a lot more than Seguin for Kessel.

The least valuable asset (Knight) has 9 points in 8 games for the London Knights.

Hamilton has 17 points in 9 games for Niagara AS A DMAN and looks to be a potential #1 Dman for the Bruins down the road.

Of course Seguin has 5 points in 5 games AS A 19 YEAR OLD.

Kessel is playing a much better all around game and is lighting up goalies with his speed and deadly wrist shot. Right now he looks like one of the premier stars in the NHL. If he can keep this up, the deal will almost be balanced, but Kessel hasn't exactly been the model of consistency in the past...

LeafGm
10-18-2011, 02:57 PM
PSST....the Leafs gave up a lot more than Seguin for Kessel.
...and the other pieces have done exactly what for the Bruins so far?

Right now the deal's a clear win for Toronto. We got clearly the best player in the deal, and only one asset that we gave up has seen NHL ice with the Bruins. The onus is on the assets we gave Boston in that deal to turn the deal into a "push" or "win" for the Bruins, since right now individually or collectively, they are not as good as Kessel.

LeafGm
10-18-2011, 02:59 PM
But if you read reports out of Boston Seguin should notch a minimum of 60 and may push 80 pts this season...
Ahh, Boston fans. Remember when they thought they'd get Kaberle for Zach Hamill and maybe a mid-round pick?

SENSible
10-18-2011, 03:21 PM
...and the other pieces have done exactly what for the Bruins so far?

Right now the deal's a clear win for Toronto. We got clearly the best player in the deal, and only one asset that we gave up has seen NHL ice with the Bruins. The onus is on the assets we gave Boston in that deal to turn the deal into a "push" or "win" for the Bruins, since right now individually or collectively, they are not as good as Kessel.

Assets have value before they step on the ice for any team. That's why picks and prospects can be traded for NHL players. To suggest that the deal is lopsided for the Leafs is laughable at best.

hockeylover
10-18-2011, 03:28 PM
So how long do they hold on to their value before they have to actually... you know... do something?

Our 7th rounder from last year outscored Knight - don't make it sound like he's a guy to lose sleep over right now.

number17
10-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Well, Knight and Hamilton are definitely also part of the deal, but it's pointless to look at them until they do something in the NHL.

This is a trade that will continue to be brought up for years to come. Personally, I like Seguin a lot and I think it'll be a close call who ends up being the better player - Kessel or Seguin. It can go either way but I don't think it'll be a lopesided comparison for either player at all ... unlike so many ppl out there who think Seguin will be head and shoulder better than Kessel, when he hasn't proved nothing at all.

As for Knight and Hamilton, I don't think they'll be impact players in the NHL. Like any blockbuster trade, the team with the best player wins. This is gonna be a Kessel vs Seguin thing.

LeafGm
10-18-2011, 03:37 PM
Assets have value before they step on the ice for any team. That's why picks and prospects can be traded for NHL players. To suggest that the deal is lopsided for the Leafs is laughable at best.
Well, once those assets actually do something themselves, or are dealt for something else that makes an actual impact on the Bruins' NHL lineup, get back to us and we'll re-evaluate.

But for now, we'll sit secure in the knowledge that the team with the 24 year-old with three straight 30-goal seasons under his belt, and 6 goals & 9 points in 4 games this year is the team that's still currently ahead of the game in that trade.

leafman101
10-18-2011, 03:39 PM
Seguin blows goats.

LeafGm
10-18-2011, 03:42 PM
So how long do they hold on to their value before they have to actually... you know... do something?

Our 7th rounder from last year outscored Knight - don't make it sound like he's a guy to lose sleep over right now.
Forever, HL. Kessel could keep up his current pace and lead the NHL in goals and points from wire to wire, score the Stanley Cup winning goal for Toronto and win the Conn Smythe trophy, and the message board and media trolls would still be trying to come up with some convoluted way to explain to us that we lost that trade. I'll admit that it was frustrating at first, but it's just funny now.

SENSible
10-18-2011, 11:00 PM
Forever, HL. Kessel could keep up his current pace and lead the NHL in goals and points from wire to wire, score the Stanley Cup winning goal for Toronto and win the Conn Smythe trophy, and the message board and media trolls would still be trying to come up with some convoluted way to explain to us that we lost that trade. I'll admit that it was frustrating at first, but it's just funny now.

Ya, because Knight and Hamilton are clearly busts for not dominating the NHL already...

And 17, not sure what you are basing your evaluation on as Hamilton looks like he's going to be a pretty special player in his own right.

hockeylover
10-18-2011, 11:23 PM
Ya, because Knight and Hamilton are clearly busts for not dominating the NHL already...

Knight's not even dominating the OHL though. No one's saying he's a bust but he doesn't swing the trade in Boston's favour until he actually does something.

SENSible
10-18-2011, 11:26 PM
Hamilton does...

Which players on the Leafs would you NOT trade straight up for Hamilton?

Leafin'
10-18-2011, 11:26 PM
Not going to lie, having Tyler Seguin + Joey Hamilton + Jared Knight over Phil Kessel does sound good. No slight on Kessel, but those first 2 are going to be really good players in this league.

Now if you want to look at it in the point of view of the Leafs having the best player at the moment, its not even a question in my mind. Kessel at the moment is looking to be on the verge of an incredible season. This is a guy that was touted to be a superstar in the making his draft year, maybe we are seeing this into fruition.

It'll be interesting to see where this debates ends up after another 10 years.

Montana
10-18-2011, 11:36 PM
Joey Hamilton will never be a really good player in this league........he's dead.


Dougie Hamilton on the other hand, very well could be.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 08:09 AM
http://futureconsiderations.ca/bruins-knight-forever-linked-to-kessel/



While Phil Kessel is lighting the lamp in the young National Hockey League season, Jared Knight is honing his craft in the Ontario Hockey League.

And while they don’t play in the same league, the two will forever be linked in the trade that brought Kessel from the Boston Bruins to the Toronto Maple Leafs two seasons ago.

“It’s kind of cool,” Knight said. “I grew up watching Phil as one of my favourite players. If anything, it’s an honour to be traded for him.”

teeds
10-19-2011, 08:15 AM
I think Chiarelli was so embarassed about how he raped his buddy Burke, that he bent over on the Kaberle trade. One, just ONE, of my contacts feels the same way.

SundinsTooth
10-19-2011, 08:33 AM
That has zero logic to it though, teeds.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 08:34 AM
logic is for fred and barneys.

Montana
10-19-2011, 08:36 AM
The idea that Chiarelli "raped" Burke is such an absurd fallacy in and of itself.......the day that trade was agreed to, PC was likely sick to his stomach over the player he was giving up.....the fact he ended up landing the 2nd overall pick, was as much a fluke as it was a demonstration of any skill on Chiarelli's part.

Burke removed any gamble from the process and took the known quantity......Chiarelli, gambled he'd be able to get some worthwhile pieces with the picks he acquired, and he lucked into a 2nd overall pick, etc.



Heaven forbid, two teams actually be happy with a trade.

Artnes
10-19-2011, 08:38 AM
More like sexual assault at the moment. In a few years if Seguin, Hamilton and Knight all reach their potential ceiling then you may be able to upgrade the charges to rape.

It looks a lot worse on paper but we have seen to many cases of high picks busting in the show to make any assumptions just yet

Montana
10-19-2011, 08:46 AM
Who the picks turn into, actually has very little to do, with the trade Burke made....



100% chance of having Kessel >>> the odds our 1st round pick would turn into Taylor Hall or Tyler Sequin, on September 18th 2009.





The guaranty of a known commodity, is far better than a chance at an unknown commodity that may or may not be better than the known commodity.


Congrats to the Bruins that they hit the lottery, and the picks turned out great for them, but that has little to no relevance to the trade Burke made in September of 09.

LeafGm
10-19-2011, 09:01 AM
I was just starting to write another long post continuing on this Kessel trade debate, when I stopped to think that it's sort of sad we've let another thread about Kessel go in this direction. This is a 24 year old player who's already put up two 30 goal seasons for us, and is off to such a good start this year that he's leading the NHL in goals and points a couple of weeks into the season. We should be able to have a discussion about him without having to justify to the trolls how he was acquired two years ago.

Artnes
10-19-2011, 09:56 AM
Who the picks turn into, actually has very little to do, with the trade Burke made....



100% chance of having Kessel >>> the odds our 1st round pick would turn into Taylor Hall or Tyler Sequin, on September 18th 2009.





The guaranty of a known commodity, is far better than a chance at an unknown commodity that may or may not be better than the known commodity.


Congrats to the Bruins that they hit the lottery, and the picks turned out great for them, but that has little to no relevance to the trade Burke made in September of 09.

Exactly. If Burke had traded Seguin, Hamilton and Knight for Kessel then people can talk shit all they want but essentially he traded lottery tickets for him. It just so happens the Bruins managed to get a few lucky ones

Blueman
10-19-2011, 10:02 AM
Hamilton does...

Which players on the Leafs would you NOT trade straight up for Hamilton?

Komi

blacksheep
10-19-2011, 10:28 AM
I think Chiarelli was so embarassed about how he raped his buddy Burke, that he bent over on the Kaberle trade. One, just ONE, of my contacts feels the same way.
I think you and your "sources" (the other voices in your head) are far off base here. Chiarelli probably figured Kessel was expendable because he still had Savard. But now that Savard is not there, I bet he regrets giving away an early-twenties proven performer. I also bet a few years from now, when the trade becomes a draw at best, your "sources" won't eat any crow, and neither will you.

zeke
10-19-2011, 11:06 AM
Hamilton does...

Which players on the Leafs would you NOT trade straight up for Hamilton?

Kessel, for one.

zeke
10-19-2011, 11:10 AM
what kills me is that this deal would have been an outright rape by Burke if he hadn't stubbornly let Toskala and Giguere sink the last two seasons.

getting kessel for two random first rounders was a steal. it was only through some extreme stupidity that those first rounders turned into prospects that have a decent chance of making this a win for the bruins (though there's no guarantee that those prospects ever do manage to do that).

SENSible
10-19-2011, 11:48 AM
Kessel, for one.

Agreed. Feel free to continue adding to the list...it won't take too long...

And then remember that the Bruins still have Seguin and Knight.

SENSible
10-19-2011, 11:49 AM
what kills me is that this deal would have been an outright rape by Burke if he hadn't stubbornly let Toskala and Giguere sink the last two seasons.

getting kessel for two random first rounders was a steal. it was only through some extreme stupidity that those first rounders turned into prospects that have a decent chance of making this a win for the bruins (though there's no guarantee that those prospects ever do manage to do that).

Burke massively overrated his team...perhaps he had read too many of your posts.

JaysCyYoung
10-19-2011, 11:55 AM
Agreed. Feel free to continue adding to the list...it won't take too long...

And then remember that the Bruins still have Seguin and Knight.

Knight sucks.

Hamilton is a gem though. He was probably the third best defenceman taken in the previous draft.

Artnes
10-19-2011, 11:56 AM
Agreed. Feel free to continue adding to the list...it won't take too long...

And then remember that the Bruins still have Seguin .

Fixed that for you because Knight will be a non impact in this trade when it all comes to a head.

I'll add to the list. Phaneuf, Kadri, Reimer Grabo, Kully to name a few. Even Colborne if he can be developed properly.

PKForce81
10-19-2011, 12:01 PM
I was just starting to write another long post continuing on this Kessel trade debate, when I stopped to think that it's sort of sad we've let another thread about Kessel go in this direction. This is a 24 year old player who's already put up two 30 goal seasons for us, and is off to such a good start this year that he's leading the NHL in goals and points a couple of weeks into the season. We should be able to have a discussion about him without having to justify to the trolls how he was acquired two years ago.

+1

corksens
10-19-2011, 12:28 PM
It's a valid argument to make that Burke over-estimated his team even with Kessel.

Even the most casual observers knew that Maple Leafs team was a bottom-3rd team at best and that the pick would likely end up being a top one.

zeke
10-19-2011, 12:57 PM
even the most casual observers knew that one of those picks turning into a 2nd overall pick was very unlikely, including Chiarelli.

zeke
10-19-2011, 12:58 PM
Agreed. Feel free to continue adding to the list...it won't take too long...

And then remember that the Bruins still have Seguin and Knight.

why would I have to add to the list?

zeke
10-19-2011, 12:59 PM
Burke massively overrated his team...perhaps he had read too many of your posts.

if he had read my posts, he'd have given up on Toskala and Giguere much sooner.

corksens
10-19-2011, 01:03 PM
How is it "very unlikely" that one of the worst teams (on paper) would finish near the bottom in league standings?

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 01:07 PM
Zeke always blames everything on the goaltender, but in reality it wasn't that simple. Burke overestimated a lot of things in those seasons...for example, Bozak's ability to be a go-to centre. It was a crucial error to not bolster the team's centre depth that one summer.

zeke
10-19-2011, 01:11 PM
stop with the generalizations. we're not talking "near the bottom of the league in standings", we're talking about 2nd overall pick. Even if they had finished 3rd worst, Boston would have Gudbranson and nobody would be pretending that he was already as good as Kessel.

they were the 7th worst team in the league the year before, and had made a number of improvements in the offseason - including Kessel. Finishing 2nd overall was highly unlikely.

The proof of that being, of course, that the Leafs managed the notable distinction of being the best 2nd worst team in NHL history.

Leafs finished with 74 points that 2009-10 season to finish 2nd worst. That would have tied them with OTT for 5th/6th worst last year, would have had them in 4th worst in 2008-09, 3rd the year before that, 8th the year before that, 6th the year before that.

Boston was extremely fortunate to end up with the 2nd overall pick, as it was an extremely unlikely scenario at the time of the trade.

What makes it sting worse, of course, is that it was essentially a 2-deep draft in terms of Kessel-level potential.

zeke
10-19-2011, 01:13 PM
Zeke always blames everything on the goaltender, but in reality it wasn't that simple. Burke overestimated a lot of things in those seasons...for example, Bozak's ability to be a go-to centre. It was a crucial error to not bolster the team's centre depth that one summer.

In reality, the Leafs have played at a 109pt pace in Reimer's 39 career decisions so far.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 02:35 PM
In reality, the Leafs have played at a 109pt pace in Reimer's 39 career decisions so far.

Unless you actually expect the Leafs to be a 109 point team this year, this means absolutely nothing.

Also as you know there have been a lot more changes to the team than just putting Reimer in the net during that period.

zeke
10-19-2011, 02:42 PM
102pt pace since Reimer's first start.

That's the Leafs' last 50 games, for the record.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 02:43 PM
have the courage of your convictions, zeke.

are the Leafs a 109 point team or not?

teeds
10-19-2011, 03:02 PM
For Kessels sake I hope this Seguin kid doesn't turn out to be what Burke suspects he will be, a Mark Messier type. It will haunt Kessel, and as all of us can see from his videos, Kessel is a real good character person. Great laugh.

Hey, both teams won big time in this, BIG TIME. We got a very,very good player, who COULD, with everything going his way, the goal scoring title. Boston got three potential above average NHLers. Great trade.

zeke
10-19-2011, 03:10 PM
I stand by my conviction that the Leafs were a bottom feeder due entirely to shitty goaltending.

And their record since getting competent nhl goaltending is proof of that.

Blueman
10-19-2011, 03:14 PM
102pt pace since Reimer's first start.

That's the Leafs' last 50 games, for the record.

Wins are a team stat. Stop trying to infer that Reimer should be credited for wins.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 03:21 PM
I stand by my conviction that the Leafs were a bottom feeder due entirely to shitty goaltending.

And their record since getting competent nhl goaltending is proof of that.

Zeke, do you believe the Leafs are a 109 point team or don't you?

number17
10-19-2011, 03:22 PM
Wins are a team stat. Stop trying to infer that Reimer should be credited for wins.Normally, yes.

But I think large part of the turnaround is also the fact the Leafs got polar extreme goaltending throughout the season ... for years the Leafs have been given league basement goaltending ... from Vesa who challenged for historically worst SV% to an injured JSG who was once again among the worst in the league for SV%. All of a sudden Reimer came in with a league top 10 SV% and immediately the team turned around.

Was it all Reimer? No. But he was a very big part of it.

Blueman
10-19-2011, 03:45 PM
I know that, I'm just trying to make a point that wins do have something to do with goaltending. Hence why goalies are always looked at by their winning record, not the teams overall record. It is obvious to me that better goalies will win more than poor goalies. If a good goalie plays for a crappy team, they might not get as many wins, but their other stats will be good (see Vokoun, Tomas FLA).

zeke
10-19-2011, 04:23 PM
Wins are a team stat. Stop trying to infer that Reimer should be credited for wins.

Reimer has massively upgraded the team. He's not being judged by his wins, the team is being judged by their wins after this upgrade.

zeke
10-19-2011, 04:24 PM
Zeke, do you believe the Leafs are a 109 point team or don't you?

Why are you changing the argument?

MindzEye
10-19-2011, 04:25 PM
If wins as a statistic was in any way at all meaningful in determining the quality of a goaltensder, andrew raycroft would not hold the franchise record of 37....while posting a sub .900 sv on his way there

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-19-2011, 04:27 PM
Who cares whether the Leafs win or lose a trade?

The trades that really hurt you are the deals where you give up quality (Rask) and get crap (Raycroft) -- those are the trades that hurt.

Regardless of what Seguin or any of the other guys turn into, the Leafs got a really good player in return. A guy who will likely lead the team in goals for the next 5-10 years. If some media/fans want to count this as a 'loss' for the Leafs, so be it.

The hardest type of player to acquire is a goal scorer, especially a young goal scorer. If we 'lose' trades where we acquired a 30-50 goal scorers, I can live with that.

hockeylover
10-19-2011, 04:37 PM
Right now I'd take Kessel over Seguin and since they're the only ones in the NHL, they're the only ones worth talking about right now. If Hamilton and Knight become something significant, maybe I'll think differently. I don't know why this is so hard for Sensible to accept.

hockeylover
10-19-2011, 04:38 PM
Who cares whether the Leafs win or lose a trade?

The trades that really hurt you are the deals where you give up quality (Rask) and get crap (Raycroft) -- those are the trades that hurt.

Regardless of what Seguin or any of the other guys turn into, the Leafs got a really good player in return. A guy who will likely lead the team in goals for the next 5-10 years. If some media/fans want to count this as a 'loss' for the Leafs, so be it.

The hardest type of player to acquire is a goal scorer, especially a young goal scorer. If we 'lose' trades where we acquired a 30-50 goal scorers, I can live with that.

This is a really good explanation.

I really love the kind of goals we're seeing Kessel score so far this season too. He's been awesome.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-19-2011, 04:45 PM
I hope we 'lose' another trade and acquire Bobby Ryan.

I hope we 'lose' another trade and acquire Zach Parise.

I hope we 'lose' another trade and acquire Paul Stastny.

I'm all for losing trades if we're acquiring these types of young talents. I will somehow survive watching these guys score goals.

uncus
10-19-2011, 04:50 PM
For Kessels sake I hope this Seguin kid doesn't turn out to be what Burke suspects he will be, a Mark Messier type. It will haunt Kessel, and as all of us can see from his videos, Kessel is a real good character person. Great laugh.

Hey, both teams won big time in this, BIG TIME. We got a very,very good player, who COULD, with everything going his way, the goal scoring title. Boston got three potential above average NHLers. Great trade.
Messier type player ... where on earth did you hear that?
Until Seguin scores 30 goals and gets 80 points then any type of comparison is needless and pointless and probably brought up by some spezza jizzum sucking bandits that just like to start sh-t.
The best player in the deal is, was and will be Kessel ...
Here is a question ... right now, who would you rather have Kessel or seguin?
If your an IDIOT then you pick seguin ....... and if you pick seguin then you are probably a jizzum sucking sens fan, so therefore any type of common sense will not exist!
JMHO

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 05:04 PM
Why are you changing the argument?

You said the Leafs performed at a 109 point pace with Reimer. I asked you if you thought this meant the Leafs were a 109 point-quality team or not. simple question. You either believe these pace things translate into reality or you don't. I'm thinking your waffling on giving an answer indicates that you don't.

Blueman
10-19-2011, 05:14 PM
If wins as a statistic was in any way at all meaningful in determining the quality of a goaltensder, andrew raycroft would not hold the franchise record of 37....while posting a sub .900 sv on his way there

Yes he was a 37 game winning goaltender. But you have to look at sample size. He also played 72 games that season. If we had Cam Ward, Luongo, etc, don't you think they would have won more than 37 games in that span?

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 05:16 PM
I hope we 'lose' another trade and acquire Bobby Ryan.

I hope we 'lose' another trade and acquire Zach Parise.

I hope we 'lose' another trade and acquire Paul Stastny.

I'm all for losing trades if we're acquiring these types of young talents. I will somehow survive watching these guys score goals.

Kind of depends on who you gave up though. hence the debate.

You can enjoy Bobby Ryan, sure...but if you gave up Matt Duchene and Tyler Myers to get him, is it still a good trade, especially for a rebuilding team like the Leafs? I'm not saying we've done that by any means, of course...but IF Seguin is a franchise centre and Hamilton a top defenceman, it will be hard to argue we won the trade from a value point of view.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-19-2011, 05:28 PM
Kind of depends on who you gave up though. hence the debate.

You can enjoy Bobby Ryan, sure...but if you gave up Matt Duchene and Tyler Myers to get him, is it still a good trade, especially for a rebuilding team like the Leafs? I'm not saying we've done that by any means, of course...but IF Seguin is a franchise centre and Hamilton a top defenceman, it will be hard to argue we won the trade from a value point of view.

Sometimes you can lose a trade from a value standpoint and still improve.

The Leafs have a much greater need for a pure goal scorer like Kessel than they do for a centre like Seguin and a dman like Hamilton.

And the fact is, they didn't trade Seguin/Hamilton or Duchene/Myers for Kessel. They traded 2 random 1sts and a 2nd for him. And I'd trade that package for a Kessel-like talent every single time. Sometimes, from a value standpoint it might not be a win, but I'll take my chances with the proven elite talent over unproven prospects.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-19-2011, 05:36 PM
Goals Per Game, 11/12

Boston Bruins: 1.67
Phil Kessel: 1.50

Montana
10-19-2011, 05:44 PM
Kind of depends on who you gave up though. hence the debate.

You can enjoy Bobby Ryan, sure...but if you gave up Matt Duchene and Tyler Myers to get him, is it still a good trade, especially for a rebuilding team like the Leafs?

We never traded Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton and Jared Knight for Kessel.......we traded a chance at those players, which is a vastly vastly different animal all together.

We won the trade because when Burke made the deal, he removed the risk of us being a good team and only ending up with average players/prospects with those picks.....conversely he also traded the chance that those picks combined would be one day be equal or greater in value to Kessel, but the fact he acquired a known commodity for those lottery tickets, is what made it a win for him.

The day the trade occurred, Peter Chiarelli lost the trade.......the fact those lottery tickets came through for him, is great for Boston, but it really has little to no impact on the caliber of the trade from Burke's perspective.


Buying lottery 649 tickets aren't a wise investment, just because there's a winner each week.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-19-2011, 05:52 PM
A lot of people are saying that the Leafs 'won' the Kaberle trade based on value.

You think the Bruins care though? Kaberle helped them win a cup.

Are the Leafs better by having replaced Kaberle with Colborne plus picks? At this point they aren't. Maybe in the future they will be better, but it's not a certainty.

Declaring a winner and loser in a trade isn't as simplistic as a lot of people make it out to be.

leafman101
10-19-2011, 06:32 PM
At the end of the day that is what its all about. Winning. If the Leafs can become a competitive team centered around Kessel its going to be hard to say it wasn't a good trade for the team.

Similarly Seguin played a minor role in winning the Bruins the cup, so whatever happens from here on out for them, it'd be pretty hard for them not to be happy with the deal.

zeke
10-19-2011, 06:34 PM
You said the Leafs performed at a 109 point pace with Reimer. I asked you if you thought this meant the Leafs were a 109 point-quality team or not. simple question. You either believe these pace things translate into reality or you don't. I'm thinking your waffling on giving an answer indicates that you don't.

rewind.

I said the leafs sucked balls because of crappy goaltending, and that they wouldn't have given up nearly as bad a pick if they hadn't let toskala and giguere ruin the last two years when there were other options available.

You then responded that i was being silly saying that it was all goaltending, and I responded by pointing out that they've played at a 100+ point pace since Reimer went in net for the first time.

The disagreement wasn't about whether the Leafs were a 100+ point team, but whether they could have finished significantly higher in the standings than they did the last two years if they hadn't stubbornly stuck with the goalies that they did.

Playing at a 100+ point pace for 50 games since they finally put a legit goalie in net seems to be ample proof of that, IMO.

And anyways, yeah, if Reimer can keep up with a .920ish save percentage, the leafs will make the playoffs comfortably, and won't be anywhere near finishing where they did the last 2 years.

zeke
10-19-2011, 06:34 PM
Yes he was a 37 game winning goaltender. But you have to look at sample size. He also played 72 games that season. If we had Cam Ward, Luongo, etc, don't you think they would have won more than 37 games in that span?

exactly why wins are useless for judging goaltending.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 07:44 PM
well, I'm glad you don't really believe the Leafs are a 109 point team zeke, because that would make you retarded.:thumbsup(22):

The reasons the Leafs sucked in the last two seasons also included horrible special teams, a shitty forward group, and being a poor defensive club. There is no question goaltending was their biggest single weakness, but that is not the same thing as claiming it was the only reason the Leafs were a bottomfeeder. Which is clearly false. I would suggest that the team's play in front of Reimer was not as good as their record indicated. We'll see how the new players and coaches can change that this season.

Getting back to the topic on this particular angle, it is absolutely true that if the Leafs even finished one spot ahead of where they did, there is a lot less talk about the Kessel trade. Chiarelli did gamble on this deal, because the only serious chance he had of winning the trade was if the Leafs were lottery-level shitty in at least one of those 2 seasons. He almost got both. Strictly from that standpoint, of course not playing Toskala would have helped.

hockeylover
10-19-2011, 08:06 PM
Tyler Seguin who?

Phil Kessel is the ****ing man this year.

zeke
10-19-2011, 08:09 PM
well, I'm glad you don't really believe the Leafs are a 109 point team zeke, because that would make you retarded.:thumbsup(22):

The reasons the Leafs sucked in the last two seasons also included horrible special teams, a shitty forward group, and being a poor defensive club. There is no question goaltending was their biggest single weakness, but that is not the same thing as claiming it was the only reason the Leafs were a bottomfeeder. Which is clearly false. I would suggest that the team's play in front of Reimer was not as good as their record indicated. We'll see how the new players and coaches can change that this season.


It doesn't really matter what I believe.

What I believe or you believe doesn't change the fact that the Leafs have played at a 100+ point since they finally decided to play their best goalie.

And while that goalie has been good, he hasn't been a world-beater, so I'd suggest your take on their play in front of him is probably wrong.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 08:58 PM
And while that goalie has been good, he hasn't been a world-beater, so I'd suggest your take on their play in front of him is probably wrong.

He's been better than you've given him credit for, that's for sure.

As for my take on the team's play, especially defensively...time will tell. that's the great thing about real games vs. projected ones.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-19-2011, 10:36 PM
7 goals and 12 points in 5 games. Just silly. It's a Crosby/Ovechkin like performance.

I haven't seen a Leaf player have a stretch of dominance like this since Dougy.

Cheaf
10-19-2011, 10:51 PM
Kessel typically has hot starts but this is ridiculous. The key is whether he can avoid his customary long funks as the season goes forward.

Metalleaf
10-19-2011, 10:53 PM
The key to a successful season for me is that when Kessel does slump, the rest of the team can provide offence. The potential's there but we haven't been very sharp to start this season.

Cheaf
10-19-2011, 10:56 PM
That's key for the team. I meant in terms of Kessel breaking out into a true impact player.

Volcanologist
10-19-2011, 10:59 PM
7 goals and 12 points in 5 games. Just silly. It's a Crosby/Ovechkin like performance.

I haven't seen a Leaf player have a stretch of dominance like this since Dougy.

It's been great to watch. We don't often see such talent in Leafland.

the last forward we had with this kind of skill was Mogilny.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-19-2011, 11:01 PM
Kessel looks a lot stronger this year, especially in his lower body. He isn't getting knocked off the puck nearly as much. He's bouncing off a lot checks, and he's actually winning some battles for pucks in the corners -- which didn't happen very often in the past.

Jeremy
10-19-2011, 11:03 PM
Kessel > Drake

Bleedsblue&white
10-19-2011, 11:17 PM
We were supposed to find someone to help Kessel, and now he's setting up his line and assisting on some really nice plays.

LeafGm
10-19-2011, 11:27 PM
We were supposed to find someone to help Kessel, and now he's setting up his line and assisting on some really nice plays.
Yeah, his play to set up Lupul's first goal was unreal. As good as any of the goals he's scored.

PKForce81
10-19-2011, 11:33 PM
Yeah, his play to set up Lupul's first goal was unreal. As good as any of the goals he's scored.

His vision impresses me so much this year..If he doesn't have a shot he can feed it to others for easy goals it seems.

LeafGm
10-19-2011, 11:35 PM
His vision impresses me so much this year..If he doesn't have a shot he can feed it to others for easy goals it seems.
It's nice to see him playing the trick of making everyone around him look better. It's like Sundin or Mogilny used to do, but it's something that Kessel's rarely been given credit for doing.

mbow30
10-20-2011, 12:46 AM
never seen kessel backcheck like he has, play the boards like he has, or set plays up like he has. it isn't just the finish -- it's the puck movement, too. the guy has demonstrated vision with the puck that i didn't know he had.

he has been a completely different player from what we have seen in the past.

issue will be if he can keep it together physically and mentally as the season progresses, especially when he hits a lull (because even playing like this you'll have poitns in time where you're a bit snakebit). basically, can he get over a funk in a game or two rather than the 10-15 (18 last year, even) it has taken in the past.

teeds
10-20-2011, 01:01 AM
The poor kid is just getting comfortable. Losing a nut, separating his shoulder. He is going to keep improving. He has a pair of HIPS and calves. This ain't no Schenn or Kadri here, this guy has a pair of legs that wont quit.

Montana
10-20-2011, 03:29 AM
Final 26 games of last year, and the first 5 this season...

Phil Kessel: 31gp, 20g, 40pts (82gp, 53g, 106pts)

SundinsTooth
10-20-2011, 09:07 AM
Final 26 games of last year, and the first 5 this season...

Phil Kessel: 31gp, 20g, 40pts (82gp, 53g, 106pts)

I think this is what we traded for.....

leaffan2005
10-20-2011, 09:18 AM
Just an all-world talent.

What's beautiful with him setting up his teammates is that goalies are so scared out of their mind of the quick release that they cheat a bit and it opens things up for others (like Lupul's 1st goal last night) to capitalize. He's always had the ability to handle the puck and his hands were always good enough to make passes like that but his play has gotten the attention of opposing teams, and even then he finds a way to get others involved when the shot isn't there for him.

**** Tyler Seguin. He might end up with more points over his career, but game-breaking talents like this don't come along that often.

blacksheep
10-20-2011, 11:04 AM
I think this is what we traded for.....
Yes, it is... but don't tell the fans of those other teams... they can't believe this talent is here instead of there...

LeafGm
10-20-2011, 11:15 AM
Game-breaking is a great way to describe him. Mogilny's really the only one we've had recently that can compare, but we only got him briefly, towards the end of his career. Sundin would have his flashes of pure skill, but he was more of a steady-as-she-goes type player that you could count on coming out of every five game stretch with 4-6 points.

corksens
10-20-2011, 11:47 AM
Kessel has looked damn good this year, but let's not forget the opposition faced has been bottom 3rd at best.

Ottawa and Winnipeg are bottom feeders - worst in the league. Montreal is average at best. A top player like Kessel should be able to put up point against that type of opposition. Especially at the comfy confines of home.

Let's see how he does when the opposition gets tougher.

leaffan2005
10-20-2011, 11:56 AM
Getting 12 points in 5 games against ANY of the NHL teams we have is damn impressive. Sure it helps to be at home and have weaker opponents but there really aren't any easy games any more in the league.

It will be interesting to see how he does tonight though. Second game of a back to back after an emotional win last night against a tight defensive team in a hostile environment. Will show where he is for sure with his effort tonight. Even if he doesn't score he has to be relevant tonight again and get some help because Boston is going to come out flying.

corksens
10-20-2011, 12:04 PM
There sure are some easy games in this league...Ottawa and Winnipeg.

leaffan2005
10-20-2011, 12:09 PM
The same Winnipeg that beat Pittsburgh the other night? Sure they had injuries but they did last year too and finished near the top of the conference.

Any team can be beat any team at any given point. There aren't any easy games anymore. There are games you SHOULD win, but even then, it is one of the more unpredictable sports in North America with a bounce here and there capable of completely changing a game. Just ask the people that bet on hockey games on proline.

mbow30
10-20-2011, 12:15 PM
well there's no doubt that tonight will be a big test for kessel because he still hasn't gone up against a pronger, or a chara, or a keith (or whoever).

that doesn't take away anything from what he has done, though.

tonight is going to be interesting. we all know of his struggles against the b's. but you don't put up 3 points in every game these days, even against shitty opponents. so he could be held off the score sheet and that could have nothing to do with chara. alternatively he could be held pointless with it having everything to do with chara. what i'm curious to see is how he bounces back on saturday.

still, if kessel can score a goal or chip in some offense tonight then it should go a long way towards boosting his confidence, and allaying any concerns about his niability to keep this up. to score tonight he'll have to do it going up against arguably the best defensive defenseman in hockey, and the former team he hasn't looked particularly good against. a productive night would be a huge indicator that he has indeed taken that step forward (while an unproductive game, frankly, won't mean anything).

JaysCyYoung
10-20-2011, 12:58 PM
It's premature to say of course, but Kessel has a more than legitimate shot at becoming the first Leafs player to reach the fifty goal mark since Andreychuk in 1993-94. And if he manages to do that he has a great shot at taking home the Rocket Richard.

JaysCyYoung
10-20-2011, 01:00 PM
The key to a successful season for me is that when Kessel does slump, the rest of the team can provide offence. The potential's there but we haven't been very sharp to start this season.

Agreed. Which is what makes Lupul's offensive production to start the season so encouraging: the more weapons that the Leafs have in their arsenal the better they will be able to manage the scoring funks that the top players will inevitably fall prey to over the length of an 82 game regular-season. There's also the fact that none of Grabs, MacArthur, or Kulemin have been particularly productive so far. Once they start to click again together that will go a long way to alleviating the offensive pressure on the Kessel line (which was largely ineffective aside from Phil last season anyways) and allow the Leafs to continue being competitive offensively every single night. Bozak especially has looked a lot more confident offensively this season as well and adding Connolly and Lombardi to the mix as productive scoring options will do wonders for the depth up front this season.

JaysCyYoung
10-20-2011, 01:03 PM
His vision impresses me so much this year..If he doesn't have a shot he can feed it to others for easy goals it seems.

That cross ice feed to an uncontested Lupul at the left side of Pavelec last night for the goal was a thing of absolute beauty. Kessel had the cognizance to identify the open man and then spring him with the unexpected cross-ice feed in virtually no time flat, tape to tape. His goal-scoring is his bread and butter but his play-making has really been fantastic so far.

zeke
10-20-2011, 02:05 PM
well there's no doubt that tonight will be a big test for kessel because he still hasn't gone up against a pronger, or a chara, or a keith (or whoever).


he really had no problem going up against Chara last year (or the last two years), he did have a helluva time with Thomas, though,

LeafGm
10-20-2011, 02:10 PM
Kessel looked good against the Bruins last year, and finally broke through with some goals/points. It was only his first year where he looked intimidated and invisible against the B's. With how confident he's playing now, I'd have a tough time seeing him slip back into those bad habits against the Bruins.

As for Thomas, I'm glad he's getting the start against us. I guess someone could pull up the stats and prove me right or wrong, but my impression is that Rask's had our number a lot more than Tim Thomas has in their starts against us.

PKForce81
10-20-2011, 02:14 PM
That cross ice feed to an uncontested Lupul at the left side of Pavelec last night for the goal was a thing of absolute beauty. Kessel had the cognizance to identify the open man and then spring him with the unexpected cross-ice feed in virtually no time flat, tape to tape. His goal-scoring is his bread and butter but his play-making has really been fantastic so far.

There was a play against Montreal i believe where he went in and actually had a chance to shoot but noticed Phaneuf coming in and he set him up for a beauty into the top corner. Last year he seemed more selfish.

number17
10-20-2011, 02:18 PM
Last fall, Kessel's cold streak started with his game vs the Bruins.

Let's really kick the Bruins to the curb side when they're down and out tonight, and make sure history doesn't repeat itself with Kessel's cold streak.

Preston_Mizzi
10-20-2011, 02:20 PM
Well last year the Bruins used Chara against the Grabo line the majority of the time. No doubt he'll be matched with Kessel tonight so it won't be easy.

Volcanologist
10-20-2011, 02:27 PM
Last fall, Kessel's cold streak started with his game vs the Bruins.

Let's really kick the Bruins to the curb side when they're down and out tonight, and make sure history doesn't repeat itself with Kessel's cold streak.

I believe his current point streak also started against the Bruins.

Artnes
10-20-2011, 02:31 PM
Well last year the Bruins used Chara against the Grabo line the majority of the time. No doubt he'll be matched with Kessel tonight so it won't be easy.

Hopefully that gives the line more room to finally start making some noise. Grabo and Kully are playing well but poor MacA can't get anything going.

mbow30
10-20-2011, 02:42 PM
nah, grabo has sucked.

Pronger84
10-20-2011, 02:46 PM
Kessel is rocking it this year- He's skating faster, he's backchecking with intensity, he's making unreal plays (ala the lupul goal last night), he's scoring goals at an intense rate. I dont think he'll keep this pace up forever, but I definetly see this as his "coming out year", and I expect him to get at least 40 goals and 70 points. Hes the real deal IMO.

zeke
10-20-2011, 02:51 PM
I think Mac has been better than Grabo so far.

Pronger84
10-20-2011, 02:53 PM
I think Mac has been better than Grabo so far.

Im not sure about that, Grabo while he hasnt been the 2010-11 Grabo he's still been OK, Macarthur so far hasnt impressed me yet so far this season, but the season is young and I'm sure he'll pick it up at somepoint.

JaysCyYoung
10-20-2011, 02:54 PM
Kessel is rocking it this year- He's skating faster, he's backchecking with intensity, he's making unreal plays (ala the lupul goal last night), he's scoring goals at an intense rate. I dont think he'll keep this pace up forever, but I definetly see this as his "coming out year", and I expect him to get at least 40 goals and 70 points. Hes the real deal IMO.

You don't say? Of course Kessel won't put up 197 points.

number17
10-20-2011, 03:09 PM
I dunno who's been worse, but not impressed with any of Grabo, Kulemin or MacA. At least MacA has the excuse.

I think Grabo's been the worst of the 3. Lsat night for example, a few times it was an odd man rush developing and he over dangle the puck, or pass when he should shoot, or shoot when he should've passed, or simple choose to keep skating in circle ala Blake when there's a winger wide open.

Even getting out of our zone, Grabs was making things too complicated and turned over the puck way too many times.

LeafGm
10-20-2011, 03:17 PM
You don't say? Of course Kessel won't put up 197 points.
He'll definitely score 115 goals though.

Pronger84
10-20-2011, 03:57 PM
I dunno who's been worse, but not impressed with any of Grabo, Kulemin or MacA. At least MacA has the excuse.

I think Grabo's been the worst of the 3. Lsat night for example, a few times it was an odd man rush developing and he over dangle the puck, or pass when he should shoot, or shoot when he should've passed, or simple choose to keep skating in circle ala Blake when there's a winger wide open.

Even getting out of our zone, Grabs was making things too complicated and turned over the puck way too many times.

Grabos's always been a slow starter and this year is no exception.... I'm not worried about him yet, however if he doesnt pick it up by the time the first 1/4 of the season is over then its time to worry but not now. The kessel line is buying the grabo one a lot of time.

zeke
10-20-2011, 04:02 PM
thing is last year even though he started out slow production-wise, he was still pretty awesome and had a ton of posts and near miss chances those first 10gms.

this year not so much.

Mega
10-20-2011, 04:07 PM
Grabo wasn't putting up points to open last year, but he looked great. Hasn't been the case this year. Although he was arguably our best player in preseason, so he might have blown his load to a certain extent. I'm not worried about him yet.

LeafGm
10-20-2011, 04:11 PM
It's interesting, in pre-season we were talking about how the Grabbo line had picked up right where it left off, and how Kessel only had one goal. Now...

Volcanologist
10-20-2011, 04:21 PM
Just more proof that preseason means sweet ****-all.

Montana
10-20-2011, 04:55 PM
Kessel has looked damn good this year, but let's not forget the opposition faced has been bottom 3rd at best.

Ottawa and Winnipeg are bottom feeders - worst in the league. Montreal is average at best. A top player like Kessel should be able to put up point against that type of opposition. Especially at the comfy confines of home.

Let's see how he does when the opposition gets tougher.


Which is what makes this significant....



Final 26 games of last year, and the first 5 this season...

Phil Kessel: 31gp, 20g, 40pts (82gp, 53g, 106pts)

SENSible
10-20-2011, 04:58 PM
Kessel has been fantastic so far this season. What i'm really impressed with is the determination he is showing. Sure he's scoring, but his all around game is way better than I've ever seen it before.

SENSible
10-21-2011, 07:37 AM
81 P. KESSEL R 0 0 0 -1 0 1 16:19 2:43 1:09 20:11

19 T. SEGUIN C 1 2 3 2 0 4 10:50 2:35 0:00 13:25

For one night at least, the head to head favored the 19 year old. Kessel getting only one shot on goal is the stat that sticks out for me, but I didn't see the game. Did he have lots of shooting opportunities, but just missed the net or was he unable to generate shooting chances?

Nice quote from Wilson on NHL.com
QUOTE OF THE DAY
"Only time will tell if he finds a way to be more consistent. But I don't see any holes in his game right now. He's backchecking, forechecking, making good decisions with the puck and staying on top of things. He wants the puck all the time, he's demanding it and he's getting it. That's the big thing." -- Maple Leafs' coach Ron Wilson on Phil Kessel, who is in the midst of a scoring surge

number17
10-21-2011, 09:37 AM
Yeah like you said, for 1 night. We all know we can find nights when even Matt Cooke looks better than Sidney Crosby ... now I do like Seguin a lot, and I really hoped EDM would have taken Seguin over Hall. Still, Kessel has already established himself as a 30G scorer in this league, with plenty of space for development. This may be the year when Seguin actually establishes himself but till then, he has nothing on Kessel.

Artnes
10-21-2011, 09:44 AM
"Only time will tell if he finds a way to be more consistent. But I don't see any holes in his game right now. He's backchecking, forechecking, making good decisions with the puck and staying on top of things. He wants the puck all the time, he's demanding it and he's getting it. That's the big thing." -- Maple Leafs' coach Ron Wilson on Phil Kessel, who is in the midst of a scoring surge

This is will make a huge difference this year if Kessel does fall into a slump. In the past he was otherwise useless if he wasn't scoring but so far this season he is being more responsible in his own end and giving a 100% very shift.

Pronger84
10-21-2011, 10:11 PM
I think tommorow will be a huge test for Kessel to see how he responds after a lacklustre game, does he come out on fire like he has the first 5 games OR does he go into his typical sulk mode when things dont go his way? This has happened a lot, pretty much every time he runs into tough defensmen who challenge him physically he tends to go into a sulk mode for long periods of time where hes useless on the ice. I hope its different come tommorow evening....

leaffan2005
10-22-2011, 09:32 AM
Thankfully there is no tough defenseman on the Habs to worry about.

blacksheep
10-22-2011, 11:29 AM
Yeah like you said, for 1 night.
For one night only, even Tie Domi could look better than half the players in the league.

SENSible
10-22-2011, 04:11 PM
Seguin has 8 points in 7 games and is a +5....

He's just a touch better than Tie Dummy

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-22-2011, 04:51 PM
Kessel:

Pts: 12 (1st)
PPG: 2.0 (1st)
Goals: 7 (1st)
+/-: +6 (2nd)

SundinsTooth
10-22-2011, 11:27 PM
2 points tonight....so far no signs of slumping...

JackBurton
10-22-2011, 11:45 PM
Seguin has 8 points in 7 games and is a +5....

He's just a touch better than Tie Dummy

You're quite obsessed with Seguin.

We get it. Worst trade ever!

Montana
10-22-2011, 11:59 PM
Kessel:


Goals: 8
Pts: 14
+/-: +6
Shots 25
Pace: (82gp, 94g, 164pts)



Last 33 games played...

Phil Kessel: 33gp, 21g, 42pts (82gp, 52g, 104pts)

number17
10-23-2011, 01:20 AM
Good to see Kessel getting 2 points tonight, and continue to be dangerous when hes on the ice.

Last year he started the season hot, but after the BOS game his cold streak started . Good to see he didn't let the BOS game affect him.

zeke
10-23-2011, 01:40 AM
people keep saying Kessel started hot last year....and he did....but it was nothing like this year....

10-11: 7gms, 6gls, 8pts
11-12: 7gms, 8gls, 14pts

Last year, Kessel didn't score his 14th point until game 21, and was still stuck on 14pts at game 25. He didn't get his 15th point until game 26.

Last year, Kessel didn't score his 8th goal until game 16, and was still stuck on 10gls at game 28. He didn't get his 11th goal until game 29.

hockeylover
10-26-2011, 07:46 PM
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7568/nhlleader.png

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/526/ahlscorer.png

Thank You Boston!

JackBurton
10-26-2011, 07:51 PM
I can't even listen to the Toronto media. They laughably underrated Kessel it's ridiculous. Maclean and Kyrpeos at noon were talking about how Taylor Hall is the best player in the game right now and when Millard said one of the top players in the NHL is a Leafs Maclean sarcastically said "Who's That?".

And of course "The Trade" was discussed more than Kessel's play by Maclean.

Honestly, **** them.

hockeylover
10-26-2011, 07:55 PM
Kessel could win the Hart Trophy this year and would still get shit on.

leafman101
10-26-2011, 07:59 PM
Heh. Best player in the NHL and AHL.

Thank you bruins is right.

Volcanologist
10-26-2011, 08:01 PM
I can't even listen to the Toronto media. They laughably underrated Kessel it's ridiculous. Maclean and Kyrpeos at noon were talking about how Taylor Hall is the best player in the game right now and when Millard said one of the top players in the NHL is a Leafs Maclean sarcastically said "Who's That?".

And of course "The Trade" was discussed more than Kessel's play by Maclean.

Honestly, **** them.

I would rather have Kessel than Rick Nash right now, all told.

put that in your pipe and smoke it, Doug.

hockeylover
10-26-2011, 08:18 PM
update: joe colborne scores 2nd of game

that's 7 goals, 7 assists for 14 points in 7 games.

zeke
10-26-2011, 09:15 PM
that's Getzlaf/Perry AHL production.

hockeylover
10-26-2011, 09:18 PM
And another assist - Crabb from Colborne.

Colborne from Crabb and Zigomanis.
Colborne from Crabb and D'Amigo.

were the first two...

zeke
10-26-2011, 09:20 PM
It's pretty funny that the crappy sucky leafs are going to be the team keeping down the two best prospects in the AHL all year long.

Bleedsblue&white
10-26-2011, 10:01 PM
Next years 1st line C

Artnes
10-26-2011, 10:05 PM
Screw that, this years first line C. Next big Nik in the making

leafman101
10-26-2011, 10:14 PM
Hopefully, Kadri and Colborne will come in for the 2nd half and help the Leafs win the cup Getzlaf/Perry styles.

LeafOfFaith
10-26-2011, 10:35 PM
I've been so high on Colborne since the first game he played for the Marlies.

He's uber talented. But even I'm shocked as to this kind of production. Shocked and ****ing stoked.

As if the Connolly signing didn't look shitty enough already, JC now has to make it completely absurd that we brought that loser in.

leafman101
10-26-2011, 10:43 PM
Picking up Colborne and Gardiner last season was a complete coup. Two recent first round picks with high end, maybe even elite potential for a couple of guys that didn't have a future here. Prospects like that aren't usually traded for rental players and Beauchemins. Burke did a fantastic job there.

LeafOfFaith
10-26-2011, 10:44 PM
Potentially two of the best trades in Leaf history, if things continue as they have been.

Especially when you consider all the other goodies we got - 1st, 2nd, Lupul.

Criminal return.

LeafGm
10-26-2011, 11:13 PM
If Colborne pans out, we'll definitely have to get a "Thank you Boston" chant going the first time they play us in T.O. with Colborne centering Kessel.

Seriously though, the level of production Colborne's been putting up so far is nothing short of shocking. Eric Staal, for example, spent a full season in the AHL at the same age as Colborne (21), and he put up 77 points in 77 games. zeke's right, the only real examples that come to mind of a recent first round pick of Colborne's age putting up close to that level of production in the AHL is Getzlaf/Perry. So, it's still pretty early, but that's some pretty rarified company he's keeping at the moment.

Think I'm going to have to get down to some Marlies games to check this out in person.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-26-2011, 11:30 PM
And to think that hack McLean said we would be lucky to get a 2nd rouder for Kaberle. pffffft.

LeafGm
10-26-2011, 11:34 PM
MacLean's was one of the worst GM's in the NHL for his entire tenure, and he's followed that up nicely by becoming one of the worst broadcasters.

You wouldn't think he'd hold the draft picks Burke gave up for Kessel in such high regard, considering how many busts he drafted in Columbus with his extremely high draft picks.

youreachiteach
10-26-2011, 11:39 PM
If Colborne pans out, we'll definitely have to get a "Thank you Boston" chant going the first time they play us in T.O. with Colborne centering Kessel.

Seriously though, the level of production Colborne's been putting up so far is nothing short of shocking. Eric Staal, for example, spent a full season in the AHL at the same age as Colborne (21), and he put up 77 points in 77 games. zeke's right, the only real examples that come to mind of a recent first round pick of Colborne's age putting up close to that level of production in the AHL is Getzlaf/Perry. So, it's still pretty early, but that's some pretty rarified company he's keeping at the moment.

Think I'm going to have to get down to some Marlies games to check this out in person.

Speaking of Marlies games,does anyone know of any sites that provide torrents of their AHL games?

JackBurton
10-26-2011, 11:41 PM
Maclean is such an arrogant dick. He's rude to so many guests and callers.

He brags about drafting Rick Nash but leaves out his numerous draft busts.

And he may hate Hitchcock, but he did more in Columbus than Maclean ever did.

I don't like Mccown, but he owned Maclean so bad on his show. Maclean ruined any chance to ever get back in the NHl for hooking up with Balsillie for a week. Maybe the dumbest decision I've ever seen.

It must be nice to be Rick Nash, he hides in Columbus and everyone kisses his ass and gets zero criticism. Kessel leads the league in points and goals and still gets non-stop crap.

LeafGm
10-26-2011, 11:46 PM
Speaking of Marlies games,does anyone know of any sites that provide torrents of their AHL games?
I doubt there's any out there. Most of their games aren't even televised, so at the same time there wouldn't be any torrents.

It always puzzles me that the Leafs have their own TV station and that they don't at least use it to broadcast Marlies home games. I guess they want people to actually come out and buy tickets for the game, but as CFL teams and the Chicago Blackhawks for years have demonstrated, keeping the team off local TV usual results in fewer people showing up. Out of sight, out of mind.

LeafGm
10-26-2011, 11:49 PM
Does MacLean actually brag about drafting Nash? That's hilarious.

It's not like he drafted Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf late in the first round, or Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg as late-round picks. He had the first overall pick, and all he did was take the player that at the time (except for a small minority that ranked Bouwmeester as #1) was the consensus #1 ranked player in the draft.

JackBurton
10-26-2011, 11:51 PM
Does MacLean actually brag about drafting Nash? That's hilarious.

It's not like he drafted Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf late in the first round, or Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg as late-round picks. He had the first overall pick, and all he did was take the player that at the time (except for a small minority that ranked Bouwmeester as #1) was the consensus #1 ranked player in the draft.

Non-stop. He does it daily.

And this is a guy that dropped the ball everytime it wasn't such an obvious pick.

zeke
10-27-2011, 12:06 AM
MacLean's draft record:

#1 R.Nash
#4 N.Zherdev
#4 R.Klesla
#6 D.Brassard
#6 G.Brule
#8 P.Leclaire
#8 A.Picard

ouch.

and that's just his top-10 picks.

the 2nd best player he ever drafted was probably Steve Mason. The rest of the top-5 would be Klesla and Zherdev and Brassard.

In 7 years of drafting in awesome draft position, he managed to find FOUR NHL regulars - Rick Nash, Steve Mason, Derrick Brassard and Rotislav Klesla.

holy crap.

youreachiteach
10-27-2011, 12:09 AM
I doubt there's any out there. Most of their games aren't even televised, so at the same time there wouldn't be any torrents.

It always puzzles me that the Leafs have their own TV station and that they don't at least use it to broadcast Marlies home games. I guess they want people to actually come out and buy tickets for the game, but as CFL teams and the Chicago Blackhawks for years have demonstrated, keeping the team off local TV usual results in fewer people showing up. Out of sight, out of mind.

Thanks. Apparently there used to be some games on a site called CIF (centre ice forums) but that was several years ago. There are SOME games on the site I frequent but not of the Marlies...DOH.

Ah well. Appreciate it. I did divine that apparently am640 does do radio on off days for the big squad. I wish I lived in T.O., or I would go. I live in Brunei currently, so torrents and streams are all I'm gonna get for now :)

Aberdeen
10-27-2011, 01:55 AM
Honestly I listen to MacLean's show on my walk home everyday (sad I know, there's not much hockey news out here), and he never brags about drafting Nash (at least he doesn't now). He'll talk about contact negotiations he had with Nash, but he really doesn't brag about his career (success) much at all.

I like that he's sometimes rude to the guests, it's usually in a playful way because he has a history with them. Plus he bashes Pierre Mcguire and Mike Milbury which I enjoy.

He's way off-base on some stuff, but I find him pretty entertaining.

hockeylover
10-27-2011, 07:15 AM
So_Truculent Bower Power
Fun thought: Bobby Ryan had 19 points in 14 AHL games when he forced the Ducks to call him up. Colborne is at 12 in 6.

*Colborne now has 15 points in 7 games... 2.14ppg

Hoss
10-27-2011, 07:28 AM
you know with the demotion of Kadri and Burke's history with Ryan, Getz and Perry, maybe Burke sees Kadri as only a top six type of player and really sees Colborne and Kadri as a top line or second line combo nest year or the year after.

I doubt Crabb can keep this up, but this does show that Colborne is setting up guys as well. Maybe Burke has always envisioned a top line of Kadri Colborne and Kessel or even a second line of Kadri Colborne and Kule.

zeke
10-27-2011, 10:10 AM
Ideal situation would be Bozak and Lombardi excelling enough to be part of a significant trade package, with Colborne and Kadri stepping in when they're moved.

With Ryan, there wasn't really anyone blocking him.

At the time, I'm pretty sure their lines were:

Kunitz - Getzlaf - Perry
XXXXX - Morrison - Selanne
Niedermayer - Pahlsson - Moen

With the XXXX being filled by guys like Andrew Ebbett and drew Miller.

And even then, they ended up trading Kunitz for Ryan Whitney in the end.

Metalleaf
10-27-2011, 10:30 AM
Ryan was drafted in 2006 and didn't see NHL games until 2007-2008 the year after the Ducks cup win. And even then he only got 20 games registering 5 goals and 10 points. Ryan played 70 AHL games over 2 seasons before he got to the NHL...chances are, rightly or wrongly, Burke still wants Kadri to do the same.

Blueman
10-27-2011, 12:18 PM
Maybe they want to see what Kadri-Colborne looks like for the Marlies, maybe see if they have any chemistry

zeke
10-27-2011, 12:38 PM
I bet you they don't even put them on the same line.

Cheaf
10-28-2011, 09:25 AM
Ideal situation would be Bozak and Lombardi excelling enough to be part of a significant trade package, with Colborne and Kadri stepping in when they're moved.

I agree with this, especially Bozak. A lot of teams were interested in him coming out of the NCAA. The one thing is though that Colborne is completely untested at the NHL level. So I don't think trading both at once is wise. Clear out Bozak and if Colborne pans out then you can move Lombardi.

Blueman
10-28-2011, 09:38 AM
I'd rather move Lombo first if we have the option. I guess I just see more from Bozak than I do from Lombo.

Lombo reminds me a bit of Stalberg, all the speed in the world but with little finish.

Hoss
10-28-2011, 10:08 AM
Bozak really seems to be developing as a really good third line centre. Sure he doesn't have the size to really be aggressive in the shutdown role, but he has the quicks and he has the smarts. He really back checks well and when in the offensive zone, he does have the skill to set up some talent.

When Burke got Franson and Lombardi there were many GM's that thought it was a steal.. maybe now that Lombo is playing, they can get something more for them.

I say keep Bozak.

leafman101
10-28-2011, 10:35 AM
If Kessel, Phaneuf and Reimer can keep playing at the level they are playing...well this team will be good.

Wayward DP
10-28-2011, 12:01 PM
And Lupul. He hasn't been elite like Phaneuf and Kessel, but he's been pretty damn close. Something just seemed to click with him and Phil.

Mega
10-28-2011, 12:08 PM
Lupul looks like he's really benefited from being able to train this summer. Looks a lot quicker out there. He could have another 3 goals too, he's flubbed on a few open nets.

fergy57
10-28-2011, 12:12 PM
Would have had a beauty tap in if his stick was on the ice last night.

Wonder what kind of $$ value he will be looking for in a new contract.

I would take a flyer at $4m per.

JaysCyYoung
10-28-2011, 12:16 PM
Lupul was always a good player, he just seemed to be bitten by the injury bug and experienced some unlucky bounces the past few years. He's still the player who netted 56 goals in his draft season in the WHL with a power forward's game and he still has the skill to be a borderline impact player offensively.

The move to playing on the opposite wing of Kessel where he can be relied upon to do the dirty work and cycle the puck has been a really huge component of the top line's resurgence this season. It was one of the elements consistently missing from the Leafs roster really since Renberg headed back to Sweden; a player that can effectively move the puck along the wall and generate space in the offensive zone so that Kessel has more room to get the puck on goal.

Cojo
10-28-2011, 12:38 PM
Would have had a beauty tap in if his stick was on the ice last night.

Wonder what kind of $$ value he will be looking for in a new contract.

I would take a flyer at $4m per.

Not that Lupul is not worth 4 mill. But can we afford to keep paying everyone 4mill?

If so, get r done!

fergy57
10-28-2011, 12:44 PM
Yeah, we would need to make some moves to possibly retain who we want.

Next season, we really have Grabo, Kulemin and Liles who will probably be getting raises.

But there is a lot coming off the books when Lupul's contract is up.

Obviously a lot can change from now until then, but we should have the room available to bring him back.

Jeremy
10-28-2011, 12:59 PM
Any predictions on how many goals/points Kessel will end up with? I'll say 40 goals, 80 points. But I think it's possible for him to do better than that, especially with TC back.

leafman101
10-28-2011, 01:05 PM
Lupul is still signed for another year after this one.

fergy57
10-28-2011, 01:28 PM
Lupul is still signed for another year after this one.

Don't think anyone said it wasnt?

hockeylover
10-28-2011, 01:29 PM
Apparently Kessel left practice early. :facepalm

Hope he's OK.

Mega
10-28-2011, 01:40 PM
He looked to be in some discomfort after a hit yesterday, might just be taking it easy. Hope so.

Mega
10-28-2011, 01:41 PM
And as I post that this comes through...

dshoalts David Shoalts
by mirtle
Kessel excused early from Leaf practice because he's "banged up" from hitting boards in Ranger game. Coach Wilson says he'll play vs. Pens.

zeke
10-28-2011, 01:41 PM
Wilson says Reimer should be good for Sunday.

fingers crossed.

fergy57
10-28-2011, 01:44 PM
If not hopefully they give Scrivens a start.

Jeremy
10-28-2011, 01:46 PM
My confidence in Gus is increasing. Hopefully he continues to get better and better.