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Volcanologist
04-20-2013, 11:31 PM
With 2 more points tonight against one of his favourite victims in Ottawa, Thrill has 16 goals 26 assists for 42 points in his last 35 games. currently 7th in NHL scoring, after finishing 6th last year. And it's not exactly JVR or Bozak propping him up, to put it charitably. Or even Lupul, as some(not around here) suggested last season.

This kid is a ridiculous player. Thank you, Boston.

Can't wait to see Thrill in the playoffs in blue and white!

Metalleaf
04-20-2013, 11:32 PM
The Leafs should be all like...

http://uboachan.net/yn/src/1363004258703.jpg

Alfamale
04-20-2013, 11:39 PM
best leaf ever in terms of pure offensive talent.

boston can have ther seguin and dougie.

JaysCyYoung
04-20-2013, 11:41 PM
best leaf ever in terms of pure offensive talent.

boston can have ther seguin and dougie.

I love Phil, but isn't that a wee hyperbolic?

theREALkoreaboy
04-20-2013, 11:42 PM
Easy there, tiger. I'd take sundin in a heartbeat over kessel. Dumb statement.

Alfamale
04-20-2013, 11:44 PM
sundin was a better 2-way player, but kessel is WAY more talented with the puck that mats ever was.

theREALkoreaboy
04-20-2013, 11:52 PM
Not sure I'd go that far.

Alfamale
04-20-2013, 11:57 PM
the one thing i'd give to mats is puck posession.

theREALkoreaboy
04-20-2013, 11:59 PM
Isn't that kinda what "good with the puck" is?

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 12:00 AM
phil has better vision, handles, dangles, and shot.

Deckie007
04-21-2013, 12:01 AM
Sundin backhand >

theREALkoreaboy
04-21-2013, 12:02 AM
Better release. I wouldn't say better vision and dangles. Sundin was one of the deadliest players off the rush for over a decade. The chubby one isn't there yet, and might never get there.

PKForce81
04-21-2013, 12:04 AM
phil has better vision, handles, dangles, and shot.

He's turning into a more complete player too. He doesn't shy away as much from board play..comes back to help defensively. Totally loving his game.

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 12:04 AM
sundin had no dangles.

JaysCyYoung
04-21-2013, 12:04 AM
Sundin's goal-scoring ability is being underrated here too. He finished second in league scoring at one point. Kessel has never been that high on the scoring charts relative to Mats.

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 12:05 AM
you, pesky sens fan, are no authority on matters of leaf.

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 12:07 AM
mats game was mostly brute strength.

Metalleaf
04-21-2013, 12:14 AM
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee152/Metalleaf24/scoringrace_zpscec5e818.png

JaysCyYoung
04-21-2013, 12:15 AM
Damn, looks like he'll miss out on one of the year-end All-Star Team slots again.

Metalleaf
04-21-2013, 12:17 AM
Chris Kunitz's shooting % is retarded.

leafman101
04-21-2013, 12:28 AM
Sundin is one of the best players all time, a first ballot hall of famer and was so skilled he was the first euro to go number one overall.

He was better.

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 12:53 AM
i didn't say he was better. i said better offensively, which he is.

leafman101
04-21-2013, 12:55 AM
Sundin is top 25 all time in both goals and points. In the history of the game only 21 players scored more goals, and only 25 players scored more points than Mats Sundin. (18th and 16th all time respectively when adjusted for era).

You're ridiculously underrating Mats.

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 12:59 AM
nah. he was steady and had a long career. he was a beast low with the puck though.

leafman101
04-21-2013, 01:01 AM
He was one of the most skilled offensive players to ever lace up a pair of skates. Top 50 all time.

HolyPuck
04-21-2013, 01:02 AM
best leaf ever in terms of pure offensive talent.

boston can have ther seguin and dougie.

Mogilny?

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 01:13 AM
if were comparing careers can we let phil finish his? give him another 15 good seasons...

leafman101
04-21-2013, 01:17 AM
You're the one calling him the most talented Leaf ever.

Sundin was talented enough to be one of the best players to ever play hockey.

Deckie007
04-21-2013, 01:23 AM
People's memories must be fuzzy. Sundin carried the Leaf's offense for years with such luminaries as Jonas Hoglund playing beside him. Guy was a great skater, had great hands and a killer backhand. Kessel needs another 8-10 seasons in the Blue & White before he gets in the discussion with Mats.

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 01:35 AM
oh so we can't let kessel finish his career before we compare careers?

and hoglund = bozak

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 01:36 AM
and anyways, i never said anything about careers. i referred to pure offensive skill/talent/ability.

da_next_kid
04-21-2013, 02:39 AM
The only two areas where Phil is vastly superior to Mats is his wrist shot and his incredible speed. I don't even think Phil deeks too much, he's much more of a shooter.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-21-2013, 10:13 AM
Kessel 48
Seguin + Hamilton = 45

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 10:21 AM
Kessel 48
Seguin + Hamilton = 45

Down the Stretch - Last 20 Games
Phil Kessel: 28 pts
Tyler "Already better than Phil" Seguin: 11pts

PKForce81
04-21-2013, 10:22 AM
To be clear, i'm not saying that Kessel overall is better than Sundin. I actually don't like that comparison as i think their styles are quite different. I think Phil has a chance to be one of the best Leafs(if he keeps going like this)..Phil is a better skater and possibly has better vision(although Sundin was pretty darn good at that as well)..Sundin also made some pretty sick moves and had board play/strength that Kessel doesn't..Great backhand too.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 10:23 AM
Tyler Bozak confirms, Phil does have only one ball.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 10:25 AM
Down the Stretch - Last 20 Games
Phil Kessel: 28 pts
Tyler "Already better than Phil" Seguin: 11pts

What a one-dimensional disappointment Seguin was this year. Where is the criticism on him though? He's gotten a free pass all year. Phil gets 10 times more crap when he finishes PPG.

leafman101
04-21-2013, 10:56 AM
You have to give Carlyle a ton of credit for how Kessel has changed his game this season. Forcing him to hold onto the puck/ put pucks in deep instead of trying to create everything off the rush has forced him to use a completely under-utilized skill that might be just as elite as his shot, and made him a far more dangerous and dynamic player.

Top 5 in assists now.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 10:57 AM
Habs board suspiciously silent on Kessel now.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 11:04 AM
Notice how all Kessel has done is prove people wrong in Toronto? He'll never score without Savard. He is now PPG two seasons in a row with Bozak as his centre... He'll never work in Carlyle's system. He's got the same production as last season in Wilson's system...

But no one cares, they still just knock him.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 11:20 AM
Notice how all Kessel has done is prove people wrong in Toronto? He'll never score without Savard. He is now PPG two seasons in a row with Bozak as his centre... He'll never work in Carlyle's system. He's got the same production as last season in Wilson's system...

But no one cares, they still just knock him.

One dimensional sniper? No problem - top 5 in assists.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 11:21 AM
And I STILL see people saying when he doesn't score goals he's useless. Holy ****, the guy is so underrated.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 11:22 AM
He might be the most underrated player in the league. If you even try to discuss the Kessel trade being anything other than a rape by Boston, people won't have it.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 11:27 AM
The argument is always based on base case scenario of what Hamilton and Seguin will become. And it involves the HHOF and lots of awards like multiple Norris wins by Hamilton.

Anyone claiming it isn't a "Win-Win" trade is delusional.

Bleedsblue&white
04-21-2013, 11:46 AM
Mogilny was not at his best when he came here, but as a player in general, he was probably the most skilled player we've ever had. Kessel and Sundin are far too different to compare.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 12:20 PM
Compare their early careers where they are the same age and both playing wing and Sundin, normalized or not, is well beyond Kessel in terms of his early NHL development when he was a winger. Sundin was basically a ppg player by the time he was 20 and kept that going until he retired. When Kessel was 20 he notched 29 points in 70 games and follow that with 37 points over a full season as a 21 year old. Kessel didn't hit a ppg until he was 24 ... Mats had already posted 4 such seasons by that age.

rated
04-21-2013, 12:28 PM
Mogilny was not at his best when he came here, but as a player in general, he was probably the most skilled player we've ever had. Kessel and Sundin are far too different to compare.

**** man I miss Mogilny. That dude was ****ing hilarious.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 12:30 PM
He'll sign that 8 year deal pretty fast with the Leafs later this year.

TimHorton
04-21-2013, 12:32 PM
Just hand him a blank cheque and be done with it.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 12:33 PM
We'll even re-sign his boyfriend to an extension.

WellPlayed
04-21-2013, 12:40 PM
Trying to talk about Kessel with your typical Gino from Woodbridge Leaf fan makes you want slit your wrists. Nobody even knows he was top 6th in scoring last year, and the commentators never talk about it.

leafman101
04-21-2013, 12:41 PM
Compare their early careers where they are the same age and both playing wing and Sundin, normalized or not, is well beyond Kessel in terms of his early NHL development when he was a winger. Sundin was basically a ppg player by the time he was 20 and kept that going until he retired. When Kessel was 20 he notched 29 points in 70 games and follow that with 37 points over a full season as a 21 year old. Kessel didn't hit a ppg until he was 24 ... Mats had already posted 4 such seasons by that age.

Yeah this. And its not a knock on Kessel at all. Thse guy is one of the most skilled players in the NHL. There is a reason why scouts called him the American Crosby at 16.

But to pretend like Mats was just a big, physically dominant guy without elite skill is just ridiculous. One of the best of all time. He had it all.

Metalleaf
04-21-2013, 12:43 PM
Mats never got full credit for his ability either, Phil's just following in those footsteps.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 12:46 PM
Yeah this. And its not a knock on Kessel at all. Thse guy is one of the most skilled players in the NHL. There is a reason why scouts called him the American Crosby at 16.

But to pretend like Mats was just a big, physically dominant guy without elite skill is just ridiculous. One of the best of all time. He had it all.
Yeah, for sure.

I wouldn't discount the possibility that Kessel takes it up a notch from here. This would require dispensing with his boyfriend as a linemate, but I could see him putting up a good bit over a ppg. He showed serious improvement in his game between 23 and 24 ... much, much more complete player. This year he's also showing improvement on the physical end of things.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 12:46 PM
Mats never got full credit for his ability either, Phil's just following in those footsteps.

Yep. That's the real blue and white disease.

Metalleaf
04-21-2013, 12:55 PM
Remember the Woodbridge crowd was always for Domi as captain and more recently, was for Luongo being our goalie because of his gino heritage.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 12:57 PM
The Woodbridge crowd calls Bosco home plumbing just cause' Luongo does a commercial for them.

zeke
04-21-2013, 01:42 PM
Last 2 seasons

Points

1. S.Stamkos 150
2. E.Malkin 138
3. C.Giroux 137
4. P.Kessel 130
5. M.St.Louis 127
6. J.Tavares 126
7. H.Sedin 123
8. P.Kane 117
9. E.Staal 117
10. A.Ovechkin 116


Goals

1. S.Stamkos 87
2. A.Ovechkin 68
3. E.Malkin 58
4. J.Neal 58
5. J.Tavares 57
6. P.Kessel 53
7. M.Gaborik 53
8. M.Moulson 51
9. M.Ryder 51
10. C.Perry 51


Points Per Game

1. S.Crosby 1.60
2. E.Malkin 1.34
3. S.Stamkos 1.19
4. C.Giroux 1.12
5. M.St.Louis 1.05
6. J.Spezza 1.05
7. J.Lupul 1.05
8. N.Backstrom 1.03
9. P.Kessel 1.02
10. I.Kovalchuk 1.00

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 01:43 PM
guys, it was easier to score in the 90's. sundin was mostly strength.

zeke
04-21-2013, 01:43 PM
note that every single player in that first list is considered MVP material. except for Phil.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 01:45 PM
note that every single player in that first list is considered MVP material. except for Phil.

Note that every single player in that first list is universally considered better than Tyler Seguin, except for Phil.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 01:46 PM
guys, it was easier to score in the 90's. sundin was mostly strength.

... which is why I noted normalization and didn't make hay out of Sundin's 114 points as a 21 year old.

leafman101
04-21-2013, 01:52 PM
It was harder to score when Sundin played. His prime was in the dead puck era. His adjusted career production is 100 points higher than his actual production (and 16th all time in the history of the NHL).

You are criminally underrating Mats.

PKForce81
04-21-2013, 01:53 PM
...but i remember a lot of clutching and grabbing that went on in those days and for most part they let it go...How does it make it easier for a person to score?

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 01:54 PM
It was harder to score when Sundin played. His prime was in the dead puck era. His adjusted career production is 100 points higher than his actual production (and 16th all time in the history of the NHL).

You are criminally underrating Mats.

Important note. Mats bridges the first lockout - pre-locked scoring was relatively high; post-lock out ... Devils hockey.

Deckie007
04-21-2013, 01:55 PM
guys, it was easier to score in the early 90's. sundin was mostly strength.

FYP. Post lock-out hockey's scoring was horribly depressed. Sundin played the bulk of his career after the lockout so that argument holds no water

Alfamale
04-21-2013, 01:55 PM
It was harder to score when Sundin played. His prime was in the dead puck era. His adjusted career production is 100 points higher than his actual production (and 16th all time in the history of the NHL).

You are criminally underrating Mats.ok go check the facts, then we'll talk. yeesh.

leafman101
04-21-2013, 01:55 PM
ok go check the facts, then we'll talk. yeesh.

You check the facts. You are wrong.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 01:56 PM
Forwards Better Than Phil Kessel
By TSN, January 14th

Crosby
Malkin
Giroux
Stamkos
Datsyuk
Toews
Sedins
Kopitar
Parise
Kovalchuk
Perry
E. Staal
Zetterberg
Spezza
Nash
Eberle
St Louis
Seguin
Hossa
Backstrom
Getzlaf
Bergeron
Neal
Iginla
P. Kane
Benn
Thornton
Couture
B. Richards
Brown
M. Richards
Gaborik
J. Staal

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=81134

leafman101
04-21-2013, 01:56 PM
Mats Sundin Career points - 1349 (26th all time)

Mats Sundin Career points adjusted for era - 1410 (16th all time)

Therefore, Mats Sundin spent the majority of his career in a lower scoring era (an even lower scoring era than the current one). Mats played in the middle of the dead puck era.

Source: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/sundima01.html

PKForce81
04-21-2013, 01:57 PM
You guys have horrible memories..Sundin use to have 2 guys on his back and he'd still get shots off and score goals..It was harder to score back then.

Deckie007
04-21-2013, 01:59 PM
How we can live in country so hockey crazy and have so many shit hockey reporters is beyond me. It's embarrassing.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 01:59 PM
Sundin definitely played the majority of his career when scoring was historically at its lowest. His first few years were played when scoring was high. But Bettman fixed that so he could expand the league without killing interest in bunch of non-hockey markets.

Deckie007
04-21-2013, 02:01 PM
You guys have horrible memories..Sundin use to have 2 guys on his back and he'd still get shots off and score goals..It was harder to score back then.

It's really only Alfamale. Must be into his leftover stash from 4/20 this afternoon.

JaysCyYoung
04-21-2013, 02:26 PM
guys, it was easier to score in the 90's. sundin was mostly strength.

1990-91-1995-96 it was. It wasn't from 1996-97 onwards. That season until the lock-out resulted in the lowest scoring in the NHL since the 1950s.

JaysCyYoung
04-21-2013, 02:30 PM
Sundin definitely played the majority of his career when scoring was historically at its lowest. His first few years were played when scoring was high. But Bettman fixed that so he could expand the league without killing interest in bunch of non-hockey markets.

Absolutely this. Sundin's 1992-93 season was definitely inflated, but then you look at great campaigns he had in incredibly low-scoring years (his 1996-97, 1998-99, 2001-02, and 2003-04 seasons stand out in particular) and it becomes clear that the argument that he was the beneficiary of an offensive environment is absurd.

Adjusted, Sundin's 2001-02 season (41-39-80) is equivalent to a 58 goal 55 assist 113 point season by 1993 standards.

theREALkoreaboy
04-21-2013, 04:43 PM
Sundin was a fantastic player. Vastly superior to fatty oneball. Not close.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 05:32 PM
How we can live in country so hockey crazy and have so many shit hockey reporters is beyond me. It's embarrassing.

The problem now is, they'll say things they don't even believe to get attention. No one is going to Bob Mackenzie route much anymore.

A article ripping the Leafs will get you more attention and a bigger star than if you wrote a positive one.

JackBurton
04-21-2013, 05:34 PM
...but i remember a lot of clutching and grabbing that went on in those days and for most part they let it go...How does it make it easier for a person to score?

It doesn't. Once 95' hit, the scoring became much more difficult. The clutch and grab era started.

blkngldbabe
04-21-2013, 07:42 PM
Compare their early careers where they are the same age and both playing wing and Sundin, normalized or not, is well beyond Kessel in terms of his early NHL development when he was a winger. Sundin was basically a ppg player by the time he was 20 and kept that going until he retired. When Kessel was 20 he notched 29 points in 70 games and follow that with 37 points over a full season as a 21 year old. Kessel didn't hit a ppg until he was 24 ... Mats had already posted 4 such seasons by that age.

Mats didn't ever have cancer to deal with either to be fair. Not arguing that Phil is better but different obstacles to overcome IMHO.

Habspatrol
04-21-2013, 08:12 PM
Habs board suspiciously silent on Kessel now.

The vast majority of the Habs board never talked about Kessel. There are probably 3 or 4 idiots that were yapping that Seguin is better and that the trade was terrible though.

Habspatrol
04-21-2013, 08:15 PM
He might be the most underrated player in the league. If you even try to discuss the Kessel trade being anything other than a rape by Boston, people won't have it.

I agree... I think I've always had a pretty fair opinion of him... but after 2 very good years you'd think he'd get a bit more credit.

A couple weeks ago I said I'd definitely give up two 1sts and a 2nd for him on the Habs board and not many people agreed with me.

Habspatrol
04-21-2013, 08:17 PM
Last 2 seasons

Points

1. S.Stamkos 150
2. E.Malkin 138
3. C.Giroux 137
4. P.Kessel 130
5. M.St.Louis 127
6. J.Tavares 126
7. H.Sedin 123
8. P.Kane 117
9. E.Staal 117
10. A.Ovechkin 116


Goals

1. S.Stamkos 87
2. A.Ovechkin 68
3. E.Malkin 58
4. J.Neal 58
5. J.Tavares 57
6. P.Kessel 53
7. M.Gaborik 53
8. M.Moulson 51
9. M.Ryder 51
10. C.Perry 51


Points Per Game

1. S.Crosby 1.60
2. E.Malkin 1.34
3. S.Stamkos 1.19
4. C.Giroux 1.12
5. M.St.Louis 1.05
6. J.Spezza 1.05
7. J.Lupul 1.05
8. N.Backstrom 1.03
9. P.Kessel 1.02
10. I.Kovalchuk 1.00

Two things strike me about this. Kessel is in mighty fine company.... and holy shit Crosby is good.

CH1
04-21-2013, 08:19 PM
Hab fans don't generally love ex-Bruins. On top of that, I live in TO and I don't see a ton of adulation for Kessel from the local diehards. I'm not saying its fair, just sharing what I hear. Even on the GOT poster, Phil doesn't get centre stage.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIWItScCAAEvMqN.jpg

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 08:28 PM
The vast majority of the Habs board never talked about Kessel. There are probably 3 or 4 idiots that were yapping that Seguin is better and that the trade was terrible though.

The opposite really - three or four that said it wasn't quite as bad as others were implying...

Bashers: Lotusland, CH1, habsforever (obviously), Isaac25, xposbrad, CaptainBolduke, habsss, and BKerr
Defenders: You, worm, GrandWazoo, Habsy

CH1
04-21-2013, 08:31 PM
I prefer "not really into it" vs "basher" to describe my stance.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 08:34 PM
I prefer "not really into it" vs "basher" to describe my stance.

Your stance was that Kessel was not consistent enough or enough of a complete player to be your star, or at least that's what you articulated at the time.

Habspatrol
04-21-2013, 08:37 PM
The opposite really - three or four that said it wasn't quite as bad as others were implying...

Bashers: Lotusland, CH1, habsforever (obviously), Isaac25, xposbrad, CaptainBolduke, habsss, and BKerr
Defenders: You, worm, GrandWazoo, Habsy

Alright... 8 bashers. I wasn't saying that everyone else was a defender, but most people over there never even talk about him... good or bad.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 08:48 PM
The Kessel trade has come up quite a few times there. Granted, it's usually the same people bringing up the discussion.

Anyways, I just think most of the criticisms people come up for him are total BS. He's neither inconsistent nor one-dimensional and there certainly aren't 33 better forwards than him in this league as TSN suggested in January.

Bleedsblue&white
04-21-2013, 08:53 PM
Kessel may have to break through against Boston to start getting through to others around the leaugue...but with the numbers he's put up, and more importantly, the company those numbers put him in, someone in Whoville will start noticing, and suddenly it will be all about how much Kessel has grown, how he's changed...

CH1
04-21-2013, 09:16 PM
Your stance was that Kessel was not consistent enough or enough of a complete player to be your star, or at least that's what you articulated at the time.

Yes. That is indeed a fair articulation of my position but I don't like the term basher in this instance because that implies I think the other side has absolutely no merit, which is not how I feel.

CH1
04-21-2013, 09:19 PM
Kessel may have to break through against Boston to start getting through to others around the leaugue...but with the numbers he's put up, and more importantly, the company those numbers put him in, someone in Whoville will start noticing, and suddenly it will be all about how much Kessel has grown, how he's changed...

True. The media consists mostly of parrots, a point I brought up with Hab fans just over a month ago when they were miffed Subban wasn't getting any Norris consideration. Now nobody in the media is allowed to say his name without mentioning "Norris candidate" in the same sentence.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 09:22 PM
Yes. That is indeed a fair articulation of my position but I don't like the term basher in this instance because that implies I think the other side has absolutely no merit, which is not how I feel.

I'll retract the "basher" label but I find your claim that he's too inconsistent to be completely absurd, quite frankly.

CH1
04-21-2013, 09:25 PM
Consistency is a ridiculous concept for a goal scorer so my apologies if I used that initially. I don't like his defensive play all that much.

PKForce81
04-21-2013, 09:29 PM
Depends on the day really. Sometimes even his defensive game is top notch. Against B's he made a few great ones, one that most remember was on Seguin as he took away a great scoring chance. Every player has off games though and he's gotten better in pretty much all areas. He went from being mostly a goal guy to being an excellent playmaker and more responsible defensively as well.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 09:38 PM
Mats didn't ever have cancer to deal with either to be fair. Not arguing that Phil is better but different obstacles to overcome IMHO.

When did he go through this and finish his recovery? He played a complete season in his second season and nearly in his first. When he arrived here he was pretty damned one-dimensional for the first couple of years. Last year exploded in a breakout where his game vastly improved and became more reliable both ways and a very solid playmaker. That doesn't have squat to do with his cancer, I don't think.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 09:43 PM
Consistency is a ridiculous concept for a goal scorer so my apologies if I used that initially. I don't like his defensive play all that much.

I don't think it's ridiculous actually. We have an inconsistent goal scorer on our top line, IMO, it's just not Kessel - it's JVR.

Kessel's play is pretty damn consistent - you don't get to PPG+ without consistency.

hockeylover
04-21-2013, 09:45 PM
When did he go through this and finish his recovery? He played a complete season in his second season and nearly in his first. When he arrived here he was pretty damned one-dimensional for the first couple of years. Last year exploded in a breakout where his game vastly improved and became more reliable both ways and a very solid playmaker. That doesn't have squat to do with his cancer, I don't think.

His rookie season. He missed a couple weeks.

Volcanologist
04-21-2013, 09:46 PM
A "goal scorer" who is top 5 in assists, yes.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 09:53 PM
His rookie season. He missed a couple weeks.

So we can give him a mulligan for his first season, I guess, and not slight him for starting at 20 vs. Mats' 19 year old start. Fair enough. But it still took him some time to be anywhere near Mats' level.

MindzEye
04-21-2013, 09:53 PM
Kessel may have to break through against Boston to start getting through to others around the leaugue...but with the numbers he's put up, and more importantly, the company those numbers put him in, someone in Whoville will start noticing, and suddenly it will be all about how much Kessel has grown, how he's changed...

The hockey media is usually 18-24 months behind what is actually occuring.

Phil being among the top 10 in scoring 2 seasons straight should cover that now....a good playoff run would be a cherry on top.

BeLeafer
04-21-2013, 09:56 PM
The hockey media is usually 18-24 months behind what is actually occuring if they're a good player playing with a Leafs jersey on their back.

Phil being among the top 10 in scoring 2 seasons straight should cover that now....a good playoff run would be a cherry on top.

fyp

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-22-2013, 09:00 AM
As of right now, Kessel is one of only two players to be top 10 in scoring in both the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons. Stamkos is the other one.

hockeylover
04-23-2013, 01:15 AM
Maple Leafs must keep first pick, deal Phil Kessel: Cox


Thereís only one untouchable on the Maple Leafs.

The man with no name.

Not Clint Eastwood, or his empty chair.

The 2013 first-round draft choice.

It is to be protected, retained and cherished, although other teams covet it and have already started suggesting it should be included in proposed trades.

Sucker trades. Like Ernie Hicke to help you now.

That í13 pick, among many reasons, is why there wonít be an offer sheet from the Leafs for P.K. Subban. The Canadiens just might be willing to forgo matching and take the compensatory picks, after all, for a shot at Nathan MacKinnon or Seth Jones.

...

At least when Kessel was acquired it could be imagined that one day he would be an untouchable. But it hasnít happened, and worse, in the early days of the shortened 2012-13 season it appears he may be poised to struggle through his most difficult season in a Leaf uniform yet.

Kessel appears ill-conditioned, isolated, troubled or simply massively unlucky, or some combination of those.

Whatever the case, it is becoming difficult to imagine a scenario in which Kessel remains a Leaf beyond the end of this season.

...

Thatís not to blame Kessel for the state of the team, although as the star forward, he has to shoulder his fair share.

Personality-wise, this just hasnít been a fit. Like Andrea Bargnani, he could be a nice secondary piece on a good team.

On a young, struggling team, however, he canít be the front man.

...

The kind of deal the Leafs should be looking for will be similar to that made by Columbus at last yearís deadline when Jeff Carter, then 27, was moved to the L.A. Kings for 25-year-old defenceman Jack Johnson and a first-round pick.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/01/28/maple_leafs_must_keep_first_pick_deal_phil_kessel_ cox.html

This happened.

JackBurton
04-23-2013, 10:00 AM
Damien thought the Leafs were finishing 30th overall.

Volcanologist
04-23-2013, 10:36 AM
"secondary piece".

lol...oh, Damien...

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-23-2013, 11:44 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=421470

Rumpleforeskin
04-23-2013, 11:46 AM
got to love those 'secondary piece' point per game players

leafman101
04-23-2013, 11:47 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=421470

"Only three players have accumulated more points in the past two seasons than Phil Kessel, the Maple Leafs 25-year-old reluctant star. One is the reigning Hart Trophy winner (Evgeni Malkin), another the reigning Rocket Richard winner (Steven Stamkos) and the third a rising star in Philadelphia (Claude Giroux)."

hockeylover
04-23-2013, 11:55 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=421470

Thanks for posting.


Only three players have accumulated more points in the past two seasons than Phil Kessel, the Maple Leafs 25-year-old reluctant star. One is the reigning Hart Trophy winner (Evgeni Malkin), another the reigning Rocket Richard winner (Steven Stamkos) and the third a rising star in Philadelphia (Claude Giroux).

And yet somehow Kessel lingers just outside the spotlight, an underappreciated talent in a major hub of hockey. Now with 48 points on the year, good for eighth in league scoring, he has been an almost silent (and yet lethal) force on the first Toronto playoff team since 2004, his accomplishments lying just out of focus, beyond those for example of James Reimer and Nazem Kadri.

"I don't think he wants to be in the spotlight," Carl Gunnarsson said of Kessel, who has 16 goals and 44 points in the past 36 games. "I think he likes to fly under the radar a bit and not get the attention that comes with being a top player in the league. But he's doing everything he can to be up there, but at the same time just staying out of the spotlight somehow."

...

That production in a lockout-shortened year includes 32 assists, the second-best number by any winger this season (Martin St. Louis) and a number he's bested only once before, totaling 45 helpers a year ago in what proved to be a career season. He's also done so without Joffrey Lupul, his all-star running mate, and a big, space-creating number one centre. Kessel has additionally embraced the detailed demands of his third NHL coach, demonstrating growth in a long lacking area of the game. "Offensively I think he's been great the whole time," said Gunnarsson, "[but in the] last year I think he's been way better defensively, just back-checking and doing all the right stuff. I think he's been way better at that."

hockeylover
04-23-2013, 12:02 PM
I can't believe he called Kessel a secondary piece even AFTER last year's PPG season.

JaysCyYoung
04-23-2013, 12:05 PM
And I for one welcome our one-balled overlord. I would like to remind him that as a respected TV personality I can be quite helpful in rounding up others to toil in his underground sugar caves.

JaysCyYoung
04-23-2013, 12:05 PM
Oh and this just in: Phil Kessel is really, really good.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-23-2013, 12:15 PM
I have been hard on Kessel before due to his defensive plays and lack of toughness. He has always been a star and exceptional talent, the media is way to hard on him. However, the last while he has taken game to a new level. The holes which I always hammered on are gone. He is getting his into the dirty areas, back checking, grinding. He has become the complete package.

I love it.

Deckie007
04-23-2013, 01:16 PM
He has become the complete package.

I love it.

Which is doubly impressive, as he's missing his complete package.

JaysCyYoung
04-23-2013, 01:22 PM
Which is doubly impressive, as he's missing his complete package.

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww229/Planzor/Ohsnap.gif

zeke
04-23-2013, 03:45 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=421470

heh. love it.

I've spent the past week posting that "4th best in the last two years" stat all over HF and here, and lo and behold it's an article on tsn now.

nice to have influence.

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-23-2013, 06:42 PM
heh. love it.

I've spent the past week posting that "4th best in the last two years" stat all over HF and here, and lo and behold it's an article on tsn now.

nice to have influence.

You are a leader amongst boys Zeke.

JackBurton
04-23-2013, 09:13 PM
Heh, I just read an interview with Watters and apparently the Leafs success is the waiver pick-ups and Cody Franson. The Names Phil, Kessel, Dion and Phaneuf never get brought-up. He hates them so much.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-23-2013, 09:17 PM
Which is doubly impressive, as he's missing his complete package.

:smilielol5:

Alfamale
04-24-2013, 12:48 AM
damn near plagarism.

Volcanologist
04-24-2013, 02:47 AM
You are a leader amongst boys Zeke.

Is that what they're calling it now?

JackBurton
04-24-2013, 07:38 PM
Boards like this make it easy for journalists.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-26-2013, 10:03 AM
6th in NHL scoring...again.

number17
04-26-2013, 10:39 AM
It's hilarious the treatment Kessel gets when he's actually producing.

He wasn't ranked a top 40 of whatever player by the TSN in the offseason.

The local media was screaming to trade Kessel early in the season.

Media called him 1-dimensional, 'figured out' the entire season

People questioned his goals and if they are 'clutch goals' or 'stat padding' kinda goals

Toronto supposedly lost the Kessel trade in a landslide, and most people who say this don't even know what Seguin's doing (or not doing) in Boston

And all Kessel did, is finish 4th in league scoring over the past 2 years, is the only Maple Leaf to finish top 10 in league scoring in 2 consecutive season since Mats Sundin, and has turned himself into a 3 zone players while still leading the league in offensive numbers.

And this dude is only 25.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-26-2013, 10:41 AM
He should be in consideration for the HART.

Aardvarkmayhem
04-26-2013, 10:44 AM
It’s excellent that it seems like Kessel has the kind of introverted shell that can just be oblivious to all the media clatter and focus on what he’s doing on the ice.

UWHabs
04-26-2013, 10:49 AM
Gonna be interesting to see what kind of deal he'll end up signing over the summer. We haven't really seen any top players sign yet under the new CBA, so we don't really have any comparables.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-26-2013, 10:49 AM
He's one of the best offensive talents in the game. Elite goal scorer, elite playmaker, elite speed, elite shot.

He's going to be around the top 10 in scoring for the next decade and if he's here long enough he will pass Sundin.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
04-26-2013, 10:50 AM
Gonna be interesting to see what kind of deal he'll end up signing over the summer. We haven't really seen any top players sign yet under the new CBA, so we don't really have any comparables.

Probably 7-7.5 mill a year over 7-8 years is my guess.

number17
04-26-2013, 10:56 AM
He's one of the best offensive talents in the game. Elite goal scorer, elite playmaker, elite speed, elite shot.

He's going to be around the top 10 in scoring for the next decade and if he's here long enough he will pass Sundin.And the local media will continue to undervalue him for the next decade

KingTucker
04-26-2013, 11:08 AM
And the local media will continue to undervalue him for the next decade

As was stated. the MSM is 2-3 years behind when it comes to the Leafs. They're just now realising that Brian Burke set some building blocks here. In 2015 or so they'll notice Kessel is an elite talent and that this is a tight, competitive group of players. That's why players and coaches in this area should just give them the necessary sound bites and move on. And if they're Sun Media they're even worse, lazier and more cringe inducing.

Metalleaf
04-26-2013, 11:09 AM
They undervalued Sundin too, now that he's retired they remind how awesome he was.

leafman101
04-26-2013, 11:17 AM
Both Getzlaf and Perry signed under the new CBA. He'll get something like that. 8 years $8+ mill.

The thing we have to remember about these guys cap hits, is that under the old CBA the cap hits were driven down by those retirement deals. Top players weren't really making $7 mill a year, they were making $10.

The salaries won't be as high, but the cap hits are going up.

JaysCyYoung
04-26-2013, 11:58 AM
It's hilarious the treatment Kessel gets when he's actually producing.

He wasn't ranked a top 40 of whatever player by the TSN in the offseason.

The local media was screaming to trade Kessel early in the season.

Media called him 1-dimensional, 'figured out' the entire season

People questioned his goals and if they are 'clutch goals' or 'stat padding' kinda goals

Toronto supposedly lost the Kessel trade in a landslide, and most people who say this don't even know what Seguin's doing (or not doing) in Boston

And all Kessel did, is finish 4th in league scoring over the past 2 years, is the only Maple Leaf to finish top 10 in league scoring in 2 consecutive season since Mats Sundin, and has turned himself into a 3 zone players while still leading the league in offensive numbers.

And this dude is only 25.

Sundin actually never accomplished that feat. His two seasons finishing in the top ten in scoring were seventh in 1996-97 and fourth in 2001-02.

Kessel actually has that over Sundin already. That's how dominant he has been offensively.

Bleedsblue&white
04-26-2013, 12:13 PM
Sittler was the last Leaf to do it.

JaysCyYoung
04-26-2013, 12:32 PM
Sittler was the last Leaf to do it.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

Ninth in 1975-76, eighth in 1976-77, and third in 1977-78.

JaysCyYoung
04-26-2013, 12:33 PM
Sittler was the last Leaf to do it.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

Ninth in 1975-76, eighth in 1976-77, and third in 1977-78.

Alfamale
04-26-2013, 01:42 PM
have you guys figured out that kessel is better offesively than sundin?

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-26-2013, 01:47 PM
Sittler was better than both of them.

Bleedsblue&white
04-26-2013, 01:55 PM
Whatever contract Kessel gets with the Leafs, here's what I predict;
Mediots will say we overpaid, then will tell us who we should have signed, and it will be somebody who can't bring to the table half of what Phil can.

LeafOfFaith
04-26-2013, 03:52 PM
No Leaf was better than Sundin.

Never had a player as clutch as him.

zeke
04-26-2013, 05:01 PM
Last 3 years:

P.Kessel (25): 211gms, 88gls, 197pts, 38ht, 66bk, 19:50 (82gms, 34gls, 77pts, 15ht, 26bk)
P.Kane (24): 201gms, 73gls, 193pts, 47ht, 53bk, 19:50 (82gms, 29gls, 79pts, 19ht, 22bk)

amazing how different the reputations of these two players are.

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-26-2013, 05:44 PM
Last 3 years:

P.Kessel (25): 211gms, 88gls, 197pts, 38ht, 66bk, 19:50 (82gms, 34gls, 77pts, 15ht, 26bk)
P.Kane (24): 201gms, 73gls, 193pts, 47ht, 53bk, 19:50 (82gms, 29gls, 79pts, 19ht, 22bk)

amazing how different the reputations of these two players are.

One has a Cup, the other doesn't. Scoring cup winning goals does that for you Zeke.

Volcanologist
04-26-2013, 05:51 PM
Last 3 years:

P.Kessel (25): 211gms, 88gls, 197pts, 38ht, 66bk, 19:50 (82gms, 34gls, 77pts, 15ht, 26bk)
P.Kane (24): 201gms, 73gls, 193pts, 47ht, 53bk, 19:50 (82gms, 29gls, 79pts, 19ht, 22bk)

amazing how different the reputations of these two players are.

it's because Kane is on a way better team, in large part.

they are pretty comparable in many ways.

hockeylover
04-26-2013, 06:00 PM
One has a Cup, the other doesn't. Scoring cup winning goals does that for you Zeke.

But it's not really that Kane's just considered better as much as one is completely and thoroughly trashed and the other isn't.

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-26-2013, 06:06 PM
I think LeafFan is overly protective of Kessel for obvious reasons. Any criticism is blown out of proportion. Hell, he has been ripped on this board many a time.

Maybe if he wasn't so introverted and weird (I mean does he even talk?), he would be seen in a different light? Who knows.

Right now he is better than Sagan and "Dougie", whether that remains the case will be for a future argument but why worry if he gets his due or not, just enjoy him.

Volcanologist
04-26-2013, 06:09 PM
I think LeafFan is overly protective of Kessel for obvious reasons. Any criticism is blown out of proportion.


I really don't agree with that at all. Are you aware of what the criticisms actually are?

hockeylover
04-26-2013, 06:11 PM
I think LeafFan is overly protective of Kessel for obvious reasons. Any criticism is blown out of proportion. Hell, he has been ripped on this board many a time.

Maybe if he wasn't so introverted and weird (I mean does he even talk?), he would be seen in a different light? Who knows.

Right now he is better than Sagan and "Dougie", whether that remains the case will be for a future argument but why worry if he gets his due or not, just enjoy him.

Nah. That's not true.

JackBurton
04-26-2013, 06:15 PM
I think there's a lot of guys who would be seen as more strange if they played in Toronto as opposed to a smaller market. I don't think Phil is that strange.

Just like no one would still laughably cal him "Streaky" in another market still in 2013'.

JaysCyYoung
04-26-2013, 06:30 PM
Sittler was better than both of them.

I take Sundin over Sittler.

But I've always felt that Syl Apps was the greatest Leaf of all-time. Him or Charlie Conacher.

JaysCyYoung
04-26-2013, 06:31 PM
Last 3 years:

P.Kessel (25): 211gms, 88gls, 197pts, 38ht, 66bk, 19:50 (82gms, 34gls, 77pts, 15ht, 26bk)
P.Kane (24): 201gms, 73gls, 193pts, 47ht, 53bk, 19:50 (82gms, 29gls, 79pts, 19ht, 22bk)

amazing how different the reputations of these two players are.

Maybe Thrill needs to beat up a Pakistani cabbie outside of Union Station to get his due?

Volcanologist
04-26-2013, 06:37 PM
20 Cent will never live that one down.

JackBurton
04-26-2013, 06:40 PM
This thread title is epic BTW. Kudos.

JaysCyYoung
04-26-2013, 06:44 PM
For the record, when Kessel plays for the Leafs tomorrow evening it will be his third consecutive season of playing every single game. He's showing good durability.

Since arriving in Toronto:

70 games (missed twelve games at the start of the year due to a shoulder injury)
82 games
82 games
48 games

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-26-2013, 06:46 PM
I take Sundin over Sittler.
But I've always felt that Syl Apps was the greatest Leaf of all-time. Hi
m or Charlie Conacher.

I can appreciate that. Sundin was probably a more complete player but that Sittler, McDonald and Thompson line in the 1970s was one of the best in hockey.

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-26-2013, 06:46 PM
For the record, when Kessel plays for the Leafs tomorrow evening it will be his third consecutive season of playing every single game. He's showing good durability.

Since arriving in Toronto:

70 games (missed twelve games at the start of the year due to a shoulder injury)
82 games
82 games
48 games

When he finally decides to go into a corner, he will miss a game due to injury

:couch

JaysCyYoung
04-26-2013, 06:48 PM
I can appreciate that. Sundin was probably a more complete player but that Sittler, McDonald and Thompson line in the 1970s was one of the best in hockey.

It really is astonishing the damage that Ballard inflicted on the franchise. I'm not suggesting that the Leafs would have necessarily been a Stanley Cup winner during that period of time given the dominance of teams like Montreal, the Islanders, and Edmonton, but they certainly would have been a perennial contender at the very least, and could have snuck out a Finals appearance or two.

They had the high-end homegrown talent to do so: three Hall of Famers in Sittler, Salming, and McDonald at bare minimum.

Ballard's personal grudges and mismanagement destroyed what should have been one of the more lengthy periods of success in the team's history.

TheCountofMonteCristo
04-26-2013, 07:16 PM
Oh I know. It was terrible what he did. He hated Sittler but couldn't trade him so he traded McDonald to get back at him. Then he ripped on Boschman for being a christian so Sittler defended him, he ripped on Sittler, took captaincy away and traded him.

The 2011-2012 Canadiens were the most dysfunctional team in Canadiens;s history, but at least we only had one year to deal with it, LeafFan had to deal with years of it. Ballard would rather lose his way than win another person's way.

hockeylover
05-05-2013, 04:55 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJGILaFCIAAqt_T.png:large

LeafGm
05-05-2013, 05:50 PM
Cool stat. And not the least bit surprising either, for those that watched him play this season.

Volcanologist
05-05-2013, 05:51 PM
Or last season, for that matter.

MindzEye
05-05-2013, 05:55 PM
But...I have it on very good authority that he's a 1 dimensional goal scorer.

I get so confused when reality doesn't conform to media driven narratives...so very, very confused.

JackBurton
05-05-2013, 06:37 PM
When Kessel doesn't score he's invisible...

KingTucker
05-05-2013, 11:03 PM
I think LeafFan is overly protective of Kessel for obvious reasons. Any criticism is blown out of proportion. Hell, he has been ripped on this board many a time.



Some of the criticisms:

One-dimensional scorer
Invisible defensively
Doesn't elevate...against Boston, a team that has a Hall of Fame defencemen and had a Hall of Fame (or close, his peak was there) goaltender.
You can't "win a Stanley Cup with him'. What does that even mean? No one "can win a Stanley Cup" until they do it.
He's not media-friendly.
He's not fan-friendly.
He's inconsitent.
He's not interested in staying long-term.
He's interested in staying long-term, but wants a king's ransom.
His totals are totally dependent on Bozak, they'll both want too much money.
Seguin and Hamilton have won the Cup so they're better.
Seguin is a more complete player.
Hamilton is a perennial All-Star in the making.

And on and on and on. (Most) Toronto media knows they can only exist if bad times occur, since no one reads or listens to good news. The piling on has been patently absurd.
No one will ever mistake him for Dustin Brown or Wendel Clark, but he's an incredibly valuable piece of our franchise, he likes playing here, he's a pure offensive contributor and he gets shat on with alarming regularity, even here.

So yeah, some of us get our backs up, because we may be one or two talented players leaving away from being Carolina Hurricanes part deux.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
05-06-2013, 11:56 AM
The most important dimension in hockey is offensive ability, specifically goal scoring ability. And Kessel is elite at this.

People talk about this like it's a negative.

Aardvarkmayhem
05-06-2013, 12:07 PM
Kessel has shown a lot of character and determination against the B's. He's been backchecking hard the whole series, and hasn't been discouraged against Chara. Love what I'm seeing from him.

UWHabs
05-06-2013, 01:39 PM
Kessel has shown a lot of character and determination against the B's. He's been backchecking hard the whole series, and hasn't been discouraged against Chara. Love what I'm seeing from him.

No, that's clearly wrong. Don't you know that he never back-checks? And he's so weak, his sister would probably throw more checks than him in a playoff series. Heck, I'm pretty sure Hamilton threw more hits than Kessel did in game 1, and Hamilton wasn't even dressed for the game!

Alfamale
05-06-2013, 02:51 PM
dougie hamilton, super-rookie.

JackBurton
05-06-2013, 06:24 PM
Dougie Hamilton hasn't even thrown the best hits by a guy with the last name Hamilton in this series.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
05-07-2013, 03:35 PM
Kessel: 3 gms, 2 gls, 2 pts, 0, 17:02
Seguin: 3 gms, 0 gls, 0 pts, +1, 16:55
Hamilton: 1 gms, 0 gls, 0 pts, 0, 13:32

hockeylover
05-07-2013, 03:43 PM
HE DOESNT NEED TO BE SCORING TO BE CONTRIBUTING BECAUSE HE'S NOT ONE-DIMENSIONAL!

PlayerToBeNamedLater
05-09-2013, 01:17 PM
Seguin leads the series in dives.

hockeylover
05-09-2013, 01:19 PM
Kessel has stepped up this series. He's flying out there. Doubt this will shut the real haters up but it should.

MindzEye
05-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Kessel has stepped up this series. He's flying out there. Doubt this will shut the real haters up but it should.

He's been getting stroked pretty hard on CBC...well, stroked by their usual "**** Kessel" standards anyway....so they're slowly but surely aligning with their usual 18-24 month delay period on accepting reality. Kessel has been elite for almsot 24 months now, so they're starting to finally accept it.

hockeylover
10-30-2013, 01:05 AM
BUMP.

Collection of Kessel quotes (by @Jeffler) from various Toronto media members...

"As a realist, you know Kessel has only ever been described as being “driven” on the days he catches a lift to the rink"
-@dfeschuk, Oct 2

"Kessel trade voted Boston sports history's best"
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/phil-kessel-trade-voted-best-in-boston-sports-history/ … Sportsnet, February 2013

"I don’t think (Kessel) is a player most teams need on their roster." -@RealBillWatters, March 2012

"The Leafs have to take a run at Nash, difficult as it may be. Even if it costs them depth or Kessel." -@simmonssteve, February 2012

"It's official: Kessel trade has turned into a disaster for Leafs" http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/steve_simmons/2010/12/04/16431696.html … -@simmonssteve, December 2010

"Burke can’t afford to insist that Kessel is a foundation player when he obviously is not," -@DamoSpin, March 2012

"In not dealing Kessel sooner rather than later, the Leafs risk having a struggling asset devalue into oblivion." -@theonald, January 2013

"Why would Kessel be a smart chip to cash in? He’s a perimeter-hugging winger in a net-front league.." -@dfeschuk, June 2013

"It is becoming difficult to imagine a scenario in which Kessel remains a Leaf beyond the end of this season." -@DamoSpin, January 2013

Metalleaf
10-30-2013, 01:10 AM
A lot of morons there.

Killer93
10-30-2013, 09:07 AM
The funny thing is that most of the posters here and fans stood by Kessel while the media published garbage like that. Looks like our loyalty is paying off now

Cojo
10-30-2013, 09:17 AM
Those are amazing. Someone should tweet the works of those.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-30-2013, 09:23 AM
Kessel is dominating in a Leafs uniform like no one has dominated since Gilmour in those couple years in the early 90's.

Wayward DP
10-30-2013, 09:29 AM
Heh. And people wonder why we complain about our media.

KingTucker
10-30-2013, 10:17 AM
This morning in MSM.

Pierre McGuire is asked if Phil Kessel is in the running for the Hart trophy and says yes.
He then says Kessel won't be a Top 10 point getter for the rest of the year and he'll start slumping.

They're not even trying to be consistent, let alone reasonable.
Heh.

Blackheart
10-30-2013, 10:27 AM
It will take 2-3 years of a playoff bound, successful Leafs team to start changing minds in the media. Just imagine if they manage to advance to(let alone win) the Cup finals in the next few years. Mass suicide in broadcast studios across the nation....maybe that's a good thing.

The best part about being a Leafs fan is that after being told how bad Kessel and the Leafs will be, we get to enjoy the ride that much more. IMO, the posters here have a knowledge of the game far beyond almost all of the hockey media. True, we will be homers, as all fans are. But the stats have shown Kessel is a super-elite talent for several years now...but all the talk was on the All-Star selection, the Seguin trade, etc.

Every goal Phil scores if a giant FVCK YOU! to the media and haters.

KingTucker
10-30-2013, 10:48 AM
I just have one question for the media geniuses.

Would they trade Kessel for Seguin, Hamilton and Knight?
If not, what would they trade him for?
What is the return value of a young, entering his prime point per game winger that is rarely injured, shows up against all opposition and enjoys playing under massive media scrutiny?

leafman101
10-30-2013, 11:23 AM
What is the return value of a young, entering his prime point per game winger that is rarely injured, shows up against all opposition and enjoys playing under massive media scrutiny?

There isn't one. Guys like Kessel don't get traded.

hockeylover
10-30-2013, 11:24 AM
This morning in MSM.

Pierre McGuire is asked if Phil Kessel is in the running for the Hart trophy and says yes.
He then says Kessel won't be a Top 10 point getter for the rest of the year and he'll start slumping.

They're not even trying to be consistent, let alone reasonable.
Heh.

That's only what he's DONE FOR THE LAST TWO SEASONS. Jesus.

PKForce81
10-30-2013, 11:57 AM
Why do you guys keep following those idiots? I gave up years ago. During breaks i have my tea(i mean beer ;)) and that's it..Not worth getting frustrated over it any longer...

Anyways, with Naz being given consistent time on the 1st line, you think Phil can get 100 pts? He's on fire now and yes it'll slow down eventually but i can still see him getting to that level.

zeke
10-30-2013, 01:08 PM
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/10/30/the-phil-kessel-bus-tossing-database


The Leafs seemed to have learned — finally — that blue-chip youngsters are not to be rushed. Similarly, surely they have learned through Tom Kurvers, the return of Wendel, Owen Nolan, Andrew Raycroft and Phil Kessel that the very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and forecasting a different result.

At least when Kessel was acquired it could be imagined that one day he would be an untouchable. But it hasn’t happened, and worse, in the early days of the shortened 2012-13 season it appears he may be poised to struggle through his most difficult season in a Leaf uniform yet.

Kessel appears ill-conditioned, isolated, troubled or simply massively unlucky, or some combination of those.

Whatever the case, it is becoming difficult to imagine a scenario in which Kessel remains a Leaf beyond the end of this season.

- Damien Cox, Toronto Star, "Maple Leafs must keep first pick, deal Phil Kessel" January 28th, 2013


"Somewhere, Leafs forward Phil Kessel is on a golf course saying: “Harder? That’s a joke, right?”"

"Why would Kessel be a smart chip to cash in? He’s a perimeter-hugging winger in a net-front league playing for a team that will need to give up something of value to land its long-sought No. 1 centre."

- Dave Feschuk, Toronto Star, "Maple Leafs should trade Phil Kessel" June 7th, 2013


In not dealing Kessel sooner rather than later, the Leafs risk having a struggling, albeit important asset devalue into oblivion.

As the face of the franchise, which clearly was the intention given what the Leafs had to give up in return, it hasn’t panned out for Kessel.

- Michael MacDonald, Canada.com, " Will the Toronto Maple Leafs trade Phil Kessel? " January 30th, 2013


Burke can’t afford to insist that Kessel is a foundation player when he obviously is not, at least not for these Leafs, and he certainly can’t afford to make another huge financial commitment to him.

- Damien Cox, Toronto Star, " Toronto Maple Leafs need to turn page on Phil Kessel " March 14th, 2012


It is easy now, in the wake of another disastrous Maple Leafs season, to label the Phil Kessel trade preposterous.

It wasn't so easy when the deal was made. Brian Burke made two giant miscalculations that have deemed the deal to failure.

- Steve Simmons, Toronto Sun, " It's official: Kessel trade has turned into a disaster for Leafs " December 4th, 2010


Deals like this have happened before, but mostly in the pre-salary cap days. And still, if you look at the history, the team trading away Patrick Roy or Roberto Luongo or Pavel Bure (a Burke deal from Vancouver) were not equally compensated in deals. The history works against Columbus. That’s why the Leafs have to take a run at Nash, difficult as it may be. Even if it costs them depth or Kessel.

How long will it be before a player like this is available again?

- Steve Simmons, Toronto Sun, " Leafs on Nash's trade list " February 16, 2012


“What would I give up for him? … I’m not giving up my best players for him, I can tell you that, and I’m not giving up my first-rounder, my best young player, if that’s what you are getting at,” he said.

“To be perfectly honest, and I don’t mean this in any way, shape or form as disrespect (to the Leafs), but I don’t think (Kessel) is a player most teams need on their roster.”

- Anonymous NHL GM via Mark Zwolinski, Toronto Star, " Phil Kessel's trade value debated " March 15th, 2012


As an optimist, you’d like to think Kessel is capable of improving and evolving and dominating. As a realist, you know Kessel has only ever been described as being “driven” on the days he catches a lift to the rink with his roommate Bozie.

- Dave Feschuk, Toronto Star, " Promised land could be long way away if Kessel's doing leading " October 2nd, 2013


The trade that sent Phil Kessel from the Boston Bruins to the Toronto Maple Leafs has been voted the best trade in Boston sports history, according to a recent NESN poll.

The Leafs acquired Phil Kessel in September 2009 in exchange for first-round picks in 2010 and 2011 and a second-round pick as well. Boston drafted Tyler Seguin with the 2010 pick and selected Dougie Hamilton in 2011.

That move beat out three other prominent trades in Boston sports history.

- Rogers Sportsnet, " Kessel trade voted Boston sports history's best ", February 5th, 2013

Montana
10-30-2013, 01:12 PM
The media is at it's best when it's read well after the fact, and is demonstrating just how f*cking dumb they are.....those were entertaining as hell to read.

MindzEye
10-30-2013, 01:13 PM
It's shocking that these people are paid for their opinions.

zeke
10-30-2013, 01:14 PM
god bless twitter.

these leafs bloggers are taking the regular media to town today.

so bad that Feschuk had to go on to the Fan and defend himself.

soco22
10-30-2013, 01:15 PM
People should really start retweetijg these old quotes and let see the responce haha

hockeylover
10-30-2013, 01:16 PM
god bless twitter.

these leafs bloggers are taking the regular media to town today.

so bad that Feschuk had to go on to the Fan and defend himself.

Where's the defense for that? You go on and say you were wrong, you don't backpedal.

BTW, you guys after Pronman too, I see. Excellent.

zeke
10-30-2013, 01:16 PM
oh they have been.

hockeylover
10-30-2013, 01:26 PM
Kessel cost the Leafs a great deal, as much, perhaps, in prestige as in actual assets. Indeed, that deal may ultimately have cost Burke his job.

That’s not to blame Kessel for the state of the team, although as the star forward, he has to shoulder his fair share.

Personality-wise, this just hasn’t been a fit. Like Andrea Bargnani, he could be a nice secondary piece on a good team.

On a young, struggling team, however, he can’t be the front man.

Beyond that, if you’re the Leafs, you don’t want to be the team that has to figure out what to pay Kessel once his current deal ends at the conclusion of next season.

At a $5.4 million cap hit ($5.1 million in real money this season), he’s affordable given his stats and goal-scoring ability.

At $7 million, or $8 million, it will be much different. And that’s what he’ll be able to demand.

Moreover, the Leafs don’t want to lose him for nothing as an unrestricted free agent.

The ideal time to trade him would have been last summer, but Burke was still in charge and the lockout got in the way of everything.

Now, given the state of the team and the 25-year-old Kessel’s contractual status going forward, the April 3 trade deadline looms as the unofficial deadline to move this player, and there will be takers.

The kind of deal the Leafs should be looking for will be similar to that made by Columbus at last year’s deadline when Jeff Carter, then 27, was moved to the L.A. Kings for 25-year-old defenceman Jack Johnson and a first-round pick

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/01/28/maple_leafs_must_keep_first_pick_deal_phil_kessel_ cox.html

zeke
10-30-2013, 01:34 PM
Where's the defense for that? You go on and say you were wrong, you don't backpedal.


Apparently now, according to Dave, Kessel is "Mr.October".

corksens
10-30-2013, 01:36 PM
Took Kessel in the 2nd round of my draft. Yes please.

zeke
10-30-2013, 01:37 PM
2nd round? how many teams?

Volcanologist
10-30-2013, 01:55 PM
Apparently now, according to Dave, Kessel is "Mr.October".

Yeah...after finishing top 8 in scoring two years running.

That guy is such a dick.

MindzEye
10-30-2013, 01:59 PM
Depending on the format, I can see it. No pim, ever...medicore +/- (most useless stat ever, still a fantasy staple for some reason).

corksens
10-30-2013, 02:02 PM
2nd round? how many teams?12 teams. Everyone picks 8f and 2d.

Total points wins.

MindzEye
10-30-2013, 02:13 PM
I love that Pronman admits that he had to change his projections, but that he isn't wrong. Though he had to change his projections after a mere 13 games...that doesn't make him wrong though.

#luckyleafs

manofleafs
10-30-2013, 02:13 PM
Cox on Kessel Today

http://http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/10/30/maple_leafs_damien_coxs_10_thoughts_from_torontos_ win_over_edmonton_oilers.html#


3. Maybe they should have given him the $64 million earlier: You never know what a contract is going to do to an athlete. For Phil Kessel, one of the intriguing effects is that, while always an accomplished passer, he seems to be more selfless with the puck than ever since signing an eight-year extension on the eve of the season.
The latest came Tuesday when, with two goals already to his credit, Kessel passed up a good chance at a third in the final period to set up Morgan Rielly, who was then initially credited with his first NHL goal. On further review, however, the goal was given to Nazem Kadri, with the puck apparently grazing his hip before beating Richard Bachman in the Edmonton net.
Kessel will never be a fire-and-brimstone type leader. But that kind of play is another form of invaluable leadership.

MindzEye
10-30-2013, 02:14 PM
I wonder what the Chinese thought about Phil Kessel?

zeke
10-30-2013, 02:35 PM
12 teams. Everyone picks 8f and 2d.

Total points wins.

heh. musta been a league of sens fans.

zeke
10-30-2013, 02:35 PM
I love that Pronman admits that he had to change his projections, but that he isn't wrong. Though he had to change his projections after a mere 13 games...that doesn't make him wrong though.

#luckyleafs

nice use of "hubris", btw.

corksens
10-30-2013, 02:41 PM
heh. musta been a league of sens fans.It was - but in fairness I did have 1st overall pick.

Crosby = #1, then got Kessel at #13.

trujaysfan
10-30-2013, 03:03 PM
It was - but in fairness I did have 1st overall pick.

Crosby = #1, then got Kessel at #13.

1. how much flack did you get for picking phil that early?
2. who the hell has a 12 person league draft that isn't a snake draft?

Montana
10-30-2013, 03:08 PM
Yeah, there's some special kind of dumb going on in both the drafting in that league and the format.

corksens
10-30-2013, 03:09 PM
At 3:00am I was impressed we could even take names from a hat.

Habspatrol
10-30-2013, 03:11 PM
Non-snaking? WTF? You don't pick in the top 3 and you're pretty much ****ed.

That said, Crosby and Kessel to start your team? Gonna be tough to lose.

corksens
10-30-2013, 03:13 PM
Oh snap. You guys are right. It was a snake. That means I got him with 24th pick.

Which makes it even sweeter.

Habspatrol
10-30-2013, 03:15 PM
Oh snap. You guys are right. It was a snake. That means I got him with 24th pick.

Which makes it even sweeter.

Wow... now that's a real steal. At 13 Kessel is a really good pick coming into the season. At 24 it's grand theft for sure. Especially in a straight points league.

Montana
10-30-2013, 03:17 PM
Did the draft take place at a special needs facility?

zeke
10-30-2013, 03:20 PM
Meh, I benefit in fantasy all the time by leafs' fans reluctance to draft sens players.

corksens
10-30-2013, 03:24 PM
Did the draft take place at a special needs facility?My basement at 3am post-bar den out...pretty much.

MindzEye
10-30-2013, 03:46 PM
nice use of "hubris", btw.

Thank you sir.

Comparing himself Nate Silver was tragically hilarious.

hockeylover
10-30-2013, 03:47 PM
Oh snap. You guys are right. It was a snake. That means I got him with 24th pick.

Which makes it even sweeter.

24th!? Good god. Sens fans are dumbasses. Bet they consulted their TSN Player Rankings for that one.

Montana
10-30-2013, 03:51 PM
Meh, I benefit in fantasy all the time by leafs' fans reluctance to draft sens players.


I can't say I take much satisfaction from beating dummies....I like winning against the best competition I can find. Gives the bragging rights some real value.

Montana
10-30-2013, 03:53 PM
My basement at 3am post-bar den out...pretty much.


Yeah, in fairness it sounds like it was a last minute drunken idea....no cheat sheets, no rankings, no research, just a straight up drunken draft for shits and giggles.


...bound to be some f*cked up selections in an instance like that.

MindzEye
10-30-2013, 04:23 PM
I can't say I take much satisfaction from beating dummies....I like winning against the best competition I can find. Gives the bragging rights some real value.


This is why I quit my dominant run of form on yahoo leagues a long time ago. I think I had quit fantasy for 4-5 years before the Jew sucked me into joining the FI League.

Habspatrol
10-30-2013, 04:25 PM
This is why I quit my dominant run of form on yahoo leagues a long time ago. I think I had quit fantasy for 4-5 years before the Jew sucked me into joining the FI League.
Any of the leagues with the FI posters are quite competitive.

zeke
10-30-2013, 04:50 PM
League Scoring, Last 3yrs:

1. S.Stamkos: 172pts
2. P.Kessel: 152pts
3. E.Malkin: 152pts

hockeylover
10-30-2013, 04:54 PM
League Scoring, Last 3yrs:

1. S.Stamkos: 172pts
2. P.Kessel: 152pts
3. E.Malkin: 152pts

Crazy.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-30-2013, 04:54 PM
ONE DIMENSIONAL!

MindzEye
10-30-2013, 04:58 PM
as long as "awesome" is a dimension, I agree.

Montana
10-30-2013, 05:04 PM
His one dimension is the 4th dimension......from which he can control the laws of spacetime itself.

hockeylover
10-30-2013, 05:06 PM
The thing that always bugged me the most of all the things that have been said about Kessel is the selfish/cancer in the room shit. Seeing that this year more than ever.

Montana
10-30-2013, 05:07 PM
The thing that always bugged me the most of all the things that have been said about Kessel is the selfish/cancer in the room shit. Seeing that this year more than ever.


24/7 will dispel that myth altogether I suspect.

leafman101
10-30-2013, 05:08 PM
The Bruins kick everyone on the way out. Thornton, Kessel, Seguin. Man that team has given up a lot of great players.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
10-30-2013, 05:09 PM
BUT HE'S NOTHING WITHOUT SAVARD!

JackBurton
10-30-2013, 05:44 PM
The thing that always bugged me the most of all the things that have been said about Kessel is the selfish/cancer in the room shit. Seeing that this year more than ever.

It was REALLY inappropriate to say that about a shy guy who actually had cancer 2 years earlier. The entire thing was b.s. I remember the story of how Phil will never be good because he didn't want to hit the gym. What a slow plug he is..

JackBurton
10-30-2013, 05:46 PM
This morning in MSM.

Pierre McGuire is asked if Phil Kessel is in the running for the Hart trophy and says yes.
He then says Kessel won't be a Top 10 point getter for the rest of the year and he'll start slumping.

They're not even trying to be consistent, let alone reasonable.
Heh.

How the **** can he claim that? He's been top 10 the past 2 years? No other player would get that kind of response.

JackBurton
10-30-2013, 05:50 PM
Cox on Kessel Today

http://http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/10/30/maple_leafs_damien_coxs_10_thoughts_from_torontos_ win_over_edmonton_oilers.html#


Nice of COX to claim it's only because of the money.

JaysCyYoung
10-31-2013, 12:17 PM
League Scoring, Last 3yrs:

1. S.Stamkos: 172pts
2. P.Kessel: 152pts
3. E.Malkin: 152pts

Absolutely unreal. "Best trade in Boston sports history" indeed.

MyNameIsJonas
10-31-2013, 02:39 PM
what's the PPG/ over last 3 years?

leafman101
10-31-2013, 03:01 PM
PPG
1. Crosby - 1.61
2. Malkin - 1.29
3. Stamkos - 1.21
4. St. Louis - 1.08
4. Giroux - 1.08
6. Kessel - 1.06

Bleedsblue&white
10-31-2013, 03:23 PM
I don't see Kessel going into any serious slump this season; maybe it's thinking he'll respond to the contract, and a little he's maturing, and some he's got great linemates, but whatever it is, I bet he does not even go 5 games without some concrete contribution.

I wonder what they'll be writing then? If Kessel starts looking at 90 points, what are they going to say?

LeafGm
10-31-2013, 03:24 PM
Maple Leaf career:

Mats Sundin: 420 goals, 987 points
Phil Kessel: 128 goals, 271 points

So, how long does it take Phil to pass Mats in either (or both) of those categories?

leafman101
10-31-2013, 03:29 PM
Well he has at least 9 years to try.

If he scores an average of 30 goals and a ppg over that span he'll be close.

LeafGm
10-31-2013, 03:45 PM
The fact that Phil could score 30 goals/80 points for this year and each of the next eight years and still not pass Sundin in either goals or points really does put into perspective again the kind of career Sundin had as a Leaf.

JaysCyYoung
10-31-2013, 06:44 PM
Maple Leaf career:

Mats Sundin: 420 goals, 987 points
Phil Kessel: 128 goals, 271 points

So, how long does it take Phil to pass Mats in either (or both) of those categories?

It still pisses me off that Mats was so close to 1,000 and failed to get there. If only we didn't have two lock-outs (the 1994-95 half season and the completely eliminated 2004-05 season) he gets to that mark no problem.

That's probably 120 additional points for Sundin there alone.

LeafOfFaith
10-31-2013, 07:05 PM
Mats was the best ever.

If Phil is here for the life of the deal, he'll pretty surely take the spot of second best ever.

Blueman
10-31-2013, 07:22 PM
If Kessel brings a cup to the leafs, I'd put him #1

JaysCyYoung
10-31-2013, 07:22 PM
In the last thirty or forty years sure, but you guys have shorrrrrrt memories. Guys like Apps, Kennedy, Keon, and Conacher are true legends.

Blueman
10-31-2013, 07:24 PM
My memory doesn't go back 30 or 40 years

LeafOfFaith
10-31-2013, 07:24 PM
None of us ever saw those guys play a game.

JaysCyYoung
10-31-2013, 07:25 PM
I never saw Babe Ruth swing a bat or throw a complete game but he's baseball's greatest.

Blueman
10-31-2013, 07:26 PM
Who cares about baseball

JaysCyYoung
10-31-2013, 07:27 PM
http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/36/54BB4E75EA7E3CC13CBC3FF1679044.gif