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PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-29-2013, 05:47 PM
Where the teams ranked among the major categories in the 12/13 season. League rank in brackets.


Goals Scored:
1. Tampa Bay (3rd)
2. Montreal (4th)
3. Toronto (6th)
4. Boston (13th)
5. Detroit (19th)
6. Buffalo (22nd)
7. Ottawa (27th)
8. Florida (29th)


Goals Against:
1. Ottawa (2nd)
2. Boston (3rd)
3. Detroit (5th)
4. Montreal (14th)
5. Toronto (17th)
6. Buffalo (22nd)
7. Tampa Bay (26th)
8. Florida (30th)

SV%:
1. Ottawa (1st)
2. Boston (2nd)
3. Detroit (7th)
4. Toronto (7th)
5. Buffalo (15th)
6. Montreal (18th)
7. Tampa Bay (24th)
8. Florida (30th)


Fenwick Close:
1. Boston (4th)
2. Detroit (5th)
3. Montreal (8th)
4. Ottawa (10th)
5. Florida (17th)
6. Tampa Bay (27th)
7. Toronto (29th)
8. Buffalo (30th)


Goal Diff.
1. Montreal: +26
2. Boston: +22
3. Toronto: +12
3. Ottawa: +12
5. Detroit: +9
6. Tampa Bay: -2
7. Buffalo: -18
8. Florida: -59

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-29-2013, 05:56 PM
It's a very strong division. Might see both wildcards from it.

Other than maybe Buffalo and Florida, the other 6 teams can all make the playoffs.

TheCountofMonteCristo
07-29-2013, 05:59 PM
Yeah I was not pleased to see Detroit move over. The east is getting screwed playoff wise and that better be fixed soon.

JaysCyYoung
07-29-2013, 06:00 PM
The East is hardly getting screwed. The extra team in each division will likely be gifting points to the other, stronger clubs.

TheCountofMonteCristo
07-29-2013, 06:06 PM
Would you rather have a 8 in 14 or 8 in 16 chance to make post season?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-29-2013, 06:07 PM
8 in 14 for sure, especially with the parity that exists.

There's no easy game in the NHL.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-29-2013, 06:12 PM
My preliminary rankings:

1. Toronto
2. Montreal
3. Boston
4. Detroit
5. Ottawa
6. Tampa Bay
7. Buffalo
8. Florida

Toronto, Montreal, Boston get the automatic playoff births. Detroit and Ottawa the wildcards. Tampa Bay, Buffalo, Florida miss.

MyNameIsJonas
07-29-2013, 06:13 PM
I'll happily trade off Columbus and Detroit for the Peg

UWHabs
07-29-2013, 06:21 PM
My preliminary rankings:

1. Toronto
2. Montreal
3. Boston
4. Detroit
5. Ottawa
6. Tampa Bay
7. Buffalo
8. Florida

Toronto, Montreal, Boston get the automatic playoff births. Detroit and Ottawa the wildcards. Tampa Bay, Buffalo, Florida miss.

Fair overall. I'd probably still peg Boston as the division winner at this point, since I'm not as high on you guys are you are. Tampa I expect to be really close to Detroit, and I expect Ottawa will be closer to the top 3 than out of the playoffs. But I think outside of the bottom 2, it will be a tough division. Definitely not good for the east to deal Winterpeg for Detroit.

MyNameIsJonas
07-29-2013, 06:23 PM
Buffalo, on paper isn't even THAT terrible...but still pretty bad, Panthers are a joke.

You could convince me any of the other 6 teams could win the division though, if things went right.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-29-2013, 06:28 PM
Fair overall. I'd probably still peg Boston as the division winner at this point, since I'm not as high on you guys are you are. Tampa I expect to be really close to Detroit, and I expect Ottawa will be closer to the top 3 than out of the playoffs. But I think outside of the bottom 2, it will be a tough division. Definitely not good for the east to deal Winterpeg for Detroit.

Boston failed to win the division last year and you can make the argument they are weaker now. They've lost Seguin, Horton, Jagr, Peverley, Ference and they've replaced them with Eriksson and Iginla.

TheCountofMonteCristo
07-29-2013, 06:29 PM
Only quibble, I would have us ahead of you.

I see the world in bleu blanc rouge and you see it in blue and white so that is probably the only difference.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-29-2013, 06:32 PM
I can see the Leafs finishing anywhere from 1st to 5th/6th. It's going to be really close. The teams won't be seperated by much, like last year.

It's going to come down to goaltending for the Leafs, and I have faith in Reimer.

blacksheep
07-29-2013, 06:34 PM
Ottawa will be really tough to beat in a few years. They've got some excellent youth in their system that will walk right over this division if nobody responds to it.
But this coming season, they're not that much of a threat to us. I wonder who will be their new captain, now that Ratface is a Dead Wing? My guess is it'll be Giggles Spezzky. All the more reason they won't be too much of a threat this coming season. Beyond a very solid goalie and some fantastic young D, they'll be easy for us to beat.
The Habs and the B's are our biggest challenges, in that order, in my opinion.
Forgot to mention: it's fvcking amazing to see the Battle of the 401 return! Bring on the Leafs / Wings rivalry!

KingTucker
07-29-2013, 06:44 PM
Ottawa will be really tough to beat in a few years. They've got some excellent youth in their system that will walk right over this division if nobody responds to it.
But this coming season, they're not that much of a threat to us. I wonder who will be their new captain, now that Ratface is a Dead Wing? My guess is it'll be Giggles Spezzky. All the more reason they won't be too much of a threat this coming season. Beyond a very solid goalie and some fantastic young D, they'll be easy for us to beat.
The Habs and the B's are our biggest challenges, in that order, in my opinion.

Maybe. They need to pay their players though, and with Melnyk saying he needs a casino and that he can't pay players five to six million a year because the money isn't there (this has been a sideshow soap opera the past few week/months) it will be interesting to see if they can spend to the $80,000,000 cap that is expected in a year or two.
I do agree that they look good on paper though. I'm not seeing Boston as the be all and and end all anymore, they are a team that looks like ready for a regression and they've come off an absolutely grind of a playoff run in a shortened season. We'll see. TOR-MTL-DET fighting for the top, BOS-OTT afterward and the sunshine belt teams and Buffalo bringing up the rear.

I'm burning to see Bernier in action though, he could be a real sleeper pickup for Nonis that could keep Reimer on his toes.

blacksheep
07-29-2013, 06:55 PM
Maybe. They need to pay their players though, and with Melnyk saying he needs a casino and that he can't pay players five to six million a year because the money isn't there (this has been a sideshow soap opera the past few week/months) it will be interesting to see if they can spend to the $80,000,000 cap that is expected in a year or two.

Part of that was greed, and part of that was a stingy owner. Melnyk was just being a typical owner trying to save as much coin as possible for himself, and hoping to cash in on some hometown discounts. The other part of that was RatFace trying to earn Sundin dollars in the twilight of his career, without the Sundin stats or skills to go with it. Greedy players + stingy owners = soap opera. I don't remember if RatFace had anything bad to say about how Sundin left here, but his own exit from Ottawa was a full-out kick in the teeth to a city that adored him. They made an offer, and he counter-offered, and that was it. He never negotiated again. At the beginning of this month, he was a Dead Wing. Just like that. What a joke - but to be expected from him.
My money is on RatFace having little impact in the Motor City. Much less impact than he ever had in Ottawa. In fact, he might even become a dressing room cancer down there. Sucks to be a Wing fan, I guess.

worm
07-29-2013, 07:29 PM
Can you point me to a good place to learn about this Fenwick Close ?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-29-2013, 07:38 PM
Can you point me to a good place to learn about this Fenwick Close ?

Fenwick is like Corsi, it just doesn't include block shots. It's a possession based stat.

The "close" part means that it only takes into account the portion of games within a 2 goal difference (leading by 2 goals or trailing by 2 goals and everything inbetween). The reason behind this is that teams trailing by a lot or leading by a lot, play a lot differently than when it's a closer game.

http://behindthenet.ca/fenwick_2012.php?sort=6&section=close





Fenwick

Another possession metric, originally devised by
Matt Fenwick of the Battle of Alberta blog. Fenwick
follows the same concept as Corsi, but doesn't include
blocked shots. Fenwick is considered to have better
predictive value for future goal differential than Corsi.
The removal of blocked shots is also valuable since
blocked shots are a proven skill worthy of being separated.

http://www.puckprospectus.com/glossary/

JackBurton
07-29-2013, 07:53 PM
I think Ottawa can win the division next season. Alfy made a foolish decision leaving for an inferior, old team in Detroit.

SENSible
07-29-2013, 08:08 PM
I think Ottawa can win the division next season. Alfy made a foolish decision leaving for an inferior, old team in Detroit.

Nice to see someone be objective.

The Sens were ravaged by injury last year and still ended up with the best result between our three teams.

If you look at the stats player posted the Sens are near the top in everything but "goals for". Add Karlsson, Spezza and Ryan and that will look a whole lot different.

The division winner will be one of Detroit, Ottawa or Boston, but the Sens should be the favorite.

The Leafs and Habs will be fighting for the wild cards.

leafman101
07-29-2013, 08:09 PM
The Sens were barely a bubble team getting .941 goaltending last year.

They are an afterthought at this point.

JackBurton
07-29-2013, 08:13 PM
They can't expect that goaltending to be at that level, but they can expect to be healthier. And overall, they are better.

JaysCyYoung
07-29-2013, 08:16 PM
They have a horrible defence behind Karlsson and he's not exactly known as a shutdown blueliner himself.

TheCountofMonteCristo
07-29-2013, 08:16 PM
Nice to see someone be objective.

The Sens were ravaged by injury last year and still ended up with the best result between our three teams.

If you look at the stats player posted the Sens are near the top in everything but "goals for". Add Karlsson, Spezza and Ryan and that will look a whole lot different.

The division winner will be one of Detroit, Ottawa or Boston, but the Sens should be the favorite.

The Leafs and Habs will be fighting for the wild cards.

very objective of you.

SENSible
07-29-2013, 08:24 PM
They have a horrible defence behind Karlsson and he's not exactly known as a shutdown blueliner himself.

What an idiotic post.

Methot and Cowen will be excellent in the shutdown roles.

JaysCyYoung
07-29-2013, 08:25 PM
Cowen sucks and Methot is passable as a third or fourth defenceman. Congratulations?

SENSible
07-29-2013, 08:26 PM
The Sens were barely a bubble team getting .941 goaltending last year.

They are an afterthought at this point.

The Sens have the best goalie tandem in the division. They can expect quality goaltending.

SENSible
07-29-2013, 08:28 PM
Cowen sucks and Methot is passable as a third or fourth defenceman. Congratulations?

Cowen is an excellent young Dman and will be a force for years to come. This is bordering on Zeke's Chara take when the Sens traded for him.

Methot a passable 3rd, 4th???? Tell that to team Canada.

JaysCyYoung
07-29-2013, 08:29 PM
Not falling for that.

leafman101
07-29-2013, 08:33 PM
The Sens have the best goalie tandem in the division. They can expect quality goaltending.

Not .941 goaltending.

LeafOfFaith
07-29-2013, 08:34 PM
Cowan does suck.

JackBurton
07-29-2013, 08:38 PM
Well Kadri is much better.

Volcanologist
07-29-2013, 08:58 PM
I would think at least one of the on-paper "better" teams in the Atlantic isn't going to make it. Just how tough the division is.

I don't see how anyone can call a favourite, really.

I think the Leafs are a better team than they were last season, perhaps significantly better depending on how the new additions fit.

My gut feel looking at the roster we have now is that we'll make the playoffs. we can score, our D looks to be stronger and deeper than last year's group, and more importantly our goaltending and PK is now good to very good instead of bottom of the barrel as it was for most of the last decade.

Habsy
07-29-2013, 10:32 PM
Only quibble, I would have us ahead of you.

I see the world in bleu blanc rouge and you see it in blue and white so that is probably the only difference.

I don't. Toronto has a good team coming up and the Habs will be missing Emelin until at least December. People continue to underestimate how important he was to Markov on that pairing. After going down to injury Markov's game went south.

Bleedsblue&white
07-29-2013, 11:10 PM
I see the Sens doing well, maybe even well enough to get their own forum.

Volcanologist
07-29-2013, 11:17 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8AbvYuUiYqAHmnMvnjisiyTxUuVb8s 7MvqTLla6w3iBH2XVYs2A

theREALkoreaboy
07-29-2013, 11:25 PM
My preliminary rankings:

1. Toronto
2. Montreal
3. Boston
4. Detroit
5. Ottawa
6. Tampa Bay
7. Buffalo
8. Florida

Toronto, Montreal, Boston get the automatic playoff births. Detroit and Ottawa the wildcards. Tampa Bay, Buffalo, Florida miss.

Hilarious. Ottawa four spots back of Toronto. That's gooooooood comedy.

LeafOfFaith
07-29-2013, 11:25 PM
I think we're 100% in the playoffs barring injuries.

I think we may even challenge for first.

And we play in the third round in the playoffs.

theREALkoreaboy
07-29-2013, 11:27 PM
They have a horrible defence behind Karlsson and he's not exactly known as a shutdown blueliner himself.

Our defence is substantially better than yours. It's not close, really.

UWHabs
07-29-2013, 11:39 PM
Toronto may run into some depth issues up front, especially when Lupul gets hurt again. If you fail for any reason, it's that.

Habs have good depth up front, but a butter-soft D, especially with Emelin gone for the first 2 months.

Ottawa has some good players, but I don't know what kind of team they'll be when their goaltending drops to a .920ish level. Of course, I could have asked the same question of the Habs and getting .905ish goaltending, and we made it through. I expect Ottawa will make the playoffs, but they're not a runaway team in the div in the least.

Boston lost a bunch of guys, but at this point they're probably the closest to a complete team in the East (or at least in our division). Depth on D will be their downfall, and they could fall fast if Chara ever shows his age.

Detroit we obviously have less to go on. Everyone's been predicting their downfall for years and they refuse to fail - they'll be competing for one of the 2 wildcard spots until the last week of the season.

Tampa I think will be a very interesting team to watch. They lost Vinny, but gained a potentially good goalie. If they get .920-ish goaltending, they could also certainly be fighting for the playoffs.

6 teams, and max 5 spots. Boston is the only team who's a lock to make it now, IMHO.

Volcanologist
07-29-2013, 11:39 PM
I see Boston and Montreal maybe falling back a bit this year, although by no means are they bad. Detroit seems on the way down but they can still hurt you and will compete for a spot.

the sens should be good as well, but I seriously doubt they will get anything like .936 or .941 out of their goalies over a full season. Ryan plus a healthy Hot Karl should boost their offence enough to compensate for it though.

Tampa can score, but yzerman needs to add more help in net and on D for them to make the playoffs. Florida will probably be quite bad again and I think have no shot. Buffalo I think is trending downwards as they will trade Miller and Vanek at some point to continue the rebuild.

LeafOfFaith
07-29-2013, 11:40 PM
Leafs and Sens should be the two heavyweights, Habs and Wings in the next tier.

But only if Price can stop a puck. If not, they're going to draft high.

theREALkoreaboy
07-29-2013, 11:41 PM
Very hard to see how buffalo makes the playoffs this year.

LeafOfFaith
07-29-2013, 11:42 PM
Hilarious. Ottawa four spots back of Toronto. That's gooooooood comedy.

You should hope Anderson continues his magic into his old age.

I don't expect he can keep it up forever, and will soon fall off a cliff.

Volcanologist
07-29-2013, 11:44 PM
Anderson is 32.

But age is not the concern with him, rather true starter-level workload.

theREALkoreaboy
07-29-2013, 11:49 PM
I think the last thing that will happen in our entire division is a collapse of the sens goaltending. I worry about a lot of things, our goaltending is probably the last thing I worry about. We have a goalie in his prime playing fantastic hockey for three years now. Behind him we have a young, huge, technically sound goalie who might be even better.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 02:32 AM
Our defence is substantially better than yours. It's not close, really.

You're right, it isn't close.

On a man by man personnel basis the Leafs blue line is miles better than Ottawa's, which is shambolic beyond EK.

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 08:29 AM
Why the hate for Cowen?

Anyway, 4 spots could be separated by 3 points. Not a huge deal. It all depends on health.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 09:14 AM
1. Hot Karl >> Phaneuf
2. Methot >> Gardiner
3. Cowen>= Franson
4. Gunnarsson> Phillips
5. Weircioch >> Ranger
6. Corvo = Liles/fraser

Our depth beyond #6>> yours

TimHorton
07-30-2013, 09:20 AM
2. Methot >> Gardiner
3. Cowen>= Franson


Jaysus.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 09:31 AM
Methot is substantially better than gardiner. Please. Don't even try to suggest otherwise.

TimHorton
07-30-2013, 09:32 AM
Methot is substantially better than gardiner. Please. Don't even try to suggest otherwise

Even if that was true, and it's not, Franson is twice the player Cowen is.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 09:37 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree strongly. Cowen is already showing signs of being an elite shutdown defenceman, with some offence as well.

leaffan2005
07-30-2013, 10:21 AM
:laughing

Just ludicrous. The education system needs reform.

leaffan2005
07-30-2013, 10:23 AM
Methot's career high is 17 points. Unless he is Scott Stevens without the puck, I don't see the argument here.

But apparently he is "substantially better" than Gardiner. And somehow Cowen is on the same level as Franson. Lehner is better than Schneider.

:drink

UWHabs
07-30-2013, 10:26 AM
I think the last thing that will happen in our entire division is a collapse of the sens goaltending. I worry about a lot of things, our goaltending is probably the last thing I worry about. We have a goalie in his prime playing fantastic hockey for three years now. Behind him we have a young, huge, technically sound goalie who might be even better.

I don't think people are suggesting that Anderson will go back to playing .905 hockey. Even if he "collapses" back to .920, that's a good chunk of goals you need to make up for next year.

Volcanologist
07-30-2013, 10:30 AM
Your defence tends to look better than it is when your goalie is .936-.941. we'll see how the sens do this season when Anderson will have to play more than 25-30 games.

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 10:53 AM
Methot is good. He's pretty solid. He's not there to put up points, though his numbers will go up if he's paired with Karlsson.

I actually think our D is pretty suspect. Phillips is declining, wiercioch is pretty raw. I actually liked what I saw from Gryba.

Lots of things you could pick apart about the Ottawa D. Cowen is the least of our problems back there. He looks pretty good to me though.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 10:55 AM
Methot's career high is 17 points. Unless he is Scott Stevens without the puck, I don't see the argument here.

But apparently he is "substantially better" than Gardiner. And somehow Cowen is on the same level as Franson. Lehner is better than Schneider.

:drink

You heard that methot is one of the top defencemen in Canada, right? Don't believe me? Talk to Steve yzerman and hockey Canada.

And I didn't say that Lehner is better than Schneider. I've said that I think it's entirely plausible that within two years, we will all say that. Lehner is already excellent, and he shows signs of being a stud, elite no.1 goalie. I think Lehner has a very good chance to be a star in this league.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 10:56 AM
Your defence tends to look better than it is when your goalie is .936-.941. we'll see how the sens do this season when Anderson will have to play more than 25-30 games.

You know that part of the reason our goalie was .936-.941 was our defence, right?

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:02 AM
I think the last thing that will happen in our entire division is a collapse of the sens goaltending. I worry about a lot of things, our goaltending is probably the last thing I worry about. We have a goalie in his prime playing fantastic hockey for three years now. Behind him we have a young, huge, technically sound goalie who might be even better.

I don't think you people grasp just how large a gap between "fantastic" is, and what you received last year is.

If as a team you post a .920% next year, that's 50 goals against more over an 82 game schedule than a .940% team would give up, and make no mistake, .920 is fantastic. Just on returning to the mean in net, the Sens have a lot of goals to make up just to be where they were last year. Karlsson should be good for 20-24GC, Spezza good for about the same, Ryan for about 15-17GC. Now subtract the 30-35GC or so that they're replacing from the players who handled their roles last year and you're still looking at being a 2013 bubble team that is down about 15 goals off of their projected 82 game 2012/13 differential.

That's if you get top 5 goaltending.

Better pray that Anderson/Lehner are .930+

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:03 AM
Methot is substantially better than gardiner. Please. Don't even try to suggest otherwise.

Simply. Not. True.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:07 AM
You know that part of the reason our goalie was .936-.941 was our defence, right?

Every mathematical analysis concerning SV% has come back with the same conclusion, shot totals even out in quality over a significant enough sample size.

So you have a choice, if you care about being correct. You can either suggest that Anderson/Lehner simply played that good last year, or that the sample size was too small. There's no other answer that the data agrees with.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:08 AM
A jack Adams-winning coach thought he wasn't good enough for much of the season to even dress him over the likes of some of the scrubs you guys have back there. Yes, he had a very nice playoff, but please don't try to tell me he's better than mark methot, who played outstanding hockey all last year to the tune of being invited to Canada's Olympic camp.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:08 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree strongly. Cowen is already showing signs of being an elite shutdown defenceman, with some offence as well.

Hilarious.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:10 AM
A jack Adams-winning coach thought he wasn't good enough for much of the season to even dress him over the likes of some of the scrubs you guys have back there. Yes, he had a very nice playoff, but please don't try to tell me he's better than mark methot, who played outstanding hockey all last year to the tune of being invited to Canada's Olympic camp.

You know he had a concussion, right, and he was tentative as **** when he came back. I disagree with how he was handled, he was clearly ready to play by the last ~15 games of the season. He showed how silly it was by dominating every time he was on the ice against the Bruins.

You act like he was a healthy scratch or something.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:11 AM
Kb also thinks that Robin Lehner will be superior to an in-prime Dominik Hasek. Take no heed to his ramblings.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:13 AM
You know that part of the reason our goalie was .936-.941 was our defence, right?

Save percentage is independent of team defence for the most part.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:13 AM
No, I said I think Lehner will ultimately be better than Schneider. You're the lunatic who threw hasek into the mix.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:14 AM
Methot is good. He's pretty solid. He's not there to put up points, though his numbers will go up if he's paired with Karlsson.

I actually think our D is pretty suspect. Phillips is declining, wiercioch is pretty raw. I actually liked what I saw from Gryba.

Lots of things you could pick apart about the Ottawa D. Cowen is the least of our problems back there. He looks pretty good to me though.

Thank you for providing an honest appraisal. Having EK out there for 27-28 minutes per game should certainly off-set the glaring lack of depth and mobility behind him though.

Ceci will really provide a benefit to Ottawa's blue-line once he's NHL-ready in any event: he's exactly the type of offensive, slick-skating defender that you lack on the other two pairings.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:15 AM
No, I said I think Lehner will ultimately be better than Schneider. You're the lunatic who threw hasek into the mix.

Schneider has posted virtually identical performances to Hasek to date save percentage-wise. For you to make that ludicrous suggestion, Lehner would have to be a .940 goaltender.

So do you consider Robin Lehner a potential candidate for most dominant goalie ever, or not? Own up to your assertion.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 11:16 AM
You know that part of the reason our goalie was .936-.941 was our defence, right?

The same defense that was bottom 3rd in shots allowed?

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:16 AM
Methot is substantially better than gardiner. Please. Don't even try to suggest otherwise.

Easily one of the worst posts made by anyone on any sports forum. Ever.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:17 AM
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree strongly. Cowen is already showing signs of being an elite shutdown defenceman, with some offence as well.

It's a shame that he's not playing in the Dead Puck Era NHL circa 2002-03. He could have been a poor man's Hatcher back when such players actually had value to off-set their glaring lack of mobility and puck-handling skills.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:18 AM
And I didn't say that Lehner is better than Schneider. I've said that I think it's entirely plausible that within two years, we will all say that. Lehner is already excellent, and he shows signs of being a stud, elite no.1 goalie. I think Lehner has a very good chance to be a star in this league.

Dude... yes you did. You said that he was "clearly better."

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:19 AM
A jack Adams-winning coach thought he wasn't good enough for much of the season to even dress him over the likes of some of the scrubs you guys have back there. Yes, he had a very nice playoff, but please don't try to tell me he's better than mark methot, who played outstanding hockey all last year to the tune of being invited to Canada's Olympic camp.

You're given a choice between Robyn Regehr or Mike Green. Which player do you take? One of those names has never represented Canada at an Olympic competition. One has.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:25 AM
Thank you for providing an honest appraisal. Having EK out there for 27-28 minutes per game should certainly off-set the glaring lack of depth and mobility behind him though.

Ceci will really provide a benefit to Ottawa's blue-line once he's NHL-ready in any event: he's exactly the type of offensive, slick-skating defender that you lack on the other two pairings.

Joe Corvo and wiercioch say hi.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 11:26 AM
Jake Gardiner is now officially the most overrated Leaf in the history of this forum and with the ridiculous homers that populate this location, that is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:28 AM
Wiercioch isn't a great skater and he's a glorified power play specialist at this point. Corvo is 36 years old and completely nightmarish in his own end.

You can't reliably play either of them for large stretches on even strength or on the penalty kill at this point.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:28 AM
Jake Gardiner is now officially the most overrated Leaf in the history of this forum and with the ridiculous homers that populate this location, that is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

Says the fanbase that promoted Karel Rachunek as a potential future Norris candidate at one point in time...

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 11:29 AM
Jake Gardiner is properly rated.

He's a former 1st round pick, who has performed well in a top 4 role, who has top 2 potential.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:30 AM
Schneider has posted virtually identical performances to Hasek to date save percentage-wise. For you to make that ludicrous suggestion, Lehner would have to be a .940 goaltender.

So do you consider Robin Lehner a potential candidate for most dominant goalie ever, or not? Own up to your assertion.

Your argument demonstrates clearly the disease that many of you here are afflicted with. Statsitis. You honestly believe that you can argue through numbers that Schneider and hasek are comparable goalies. Anyone who was alive and who watched both goalies know that is ridiculous. Simply ludicrous. Preposterous. When you're suggesting that a generational, all-time talent is comparable to a guy who has spent most of his career as a backup, outside of a stoppage season, then you're a lunatic.

You descend into full on retard territory when you emphatically ridicule someone who suggests your comparison is wrong.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:31 AM
Says the fanbase that promoted Karel Rachunek as a potential future Norris candidate at one point in time...

I never, ever said "rachunek" and "Norris" in the same sentence.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:32 AM
Jake Gardiner is now officially the most overrated Leaf in the history of this forum and with the ridiculous homers that populate this location, that is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

Because we're saying that he's better than a #3-4 defender with minimal puck skills, overrated by Hockey Canada because he's a "stay at home" defender?

UWHabs
07-30-2013, 11:33 AM
Jake Gardiner is properly rated.

He's a former 1st round pick, who has performed well in a top 4 role, who has top 2 potential.

He still hasn't played enough to be properly rated. He had a good rookie season, and then followed it up with an injured campaign. I'd put him basically where Reimer was before last season - he has some promise, has shown flashes of solid play, but he's still unproven as a whole.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:33 AM
Hockey Canada always brings a couple of one-dimensional, immobile "physical" defenders to the team. It's no surprise that the one time in the last three tournaments that they were given a starting role we struggled to score and didn't place in the medals.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:34 AM
Your argument demonstrates clearly the disease that many of you here are afflicted with. Statsitis. You honestly believe that you can argue through numbers that Schneider and hasek are comparable goalies. Anyone who was alive and who watched both goalies know that is ridiculous. Simply ludicrous. Preposterous. When you're suggesting that a generational, all-time talent is comparable to a guy who has spent most of his career as a backup, outside of a stoppage season, then you're a lunatic.

You descend into full on retard territory when you emphatically ridicule someone who suggests your comparison is wrong.

Because you have no point of comparison. What would quantify in your mind as being "clearly better?" To me that would suggest a .940 save percentage, which is better than Hasek ever managed.

So for you to make that claim is clearly outlandish. Why would you make it? You realize Schneider would qualify for the best save percentage in NHL history if he met the minimum requirement for games played?

You realize that, right?

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:35 AM
Jake Gardiner is now officially the most overrated Leaf in the history of this forum and with the ridiculous homers that populate this location, that is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

Not sure I'd go this far yet, but you might be on to something here. We might be witnessing the birth of yet another in a long, long line of massively overrated and overhyped leaf prospects.

corksens
07-30-2013, 11:35 AM
Maybe. They need to pay their players though, and with Melnyk saying he needs a casino and that he can't pay players five to six million a year because the money isn't there (this has been a sideshow soap opera the past few week/months) it will be interesting to see if they can spend to the $80,000,000 cap that is expected in a year or two.
I do agree that they look good on paper though. I'm not seeing Boston as the be all and and end all anymore, they are a team that looks like ready for a regression and they've come off an absolutely grind of a playoff run in a shortened season. We'll see. TOR-MTL-DET fighting for the top, BOS-OTT afterward and the sunshine belt teams and Buffalo bringing up the rear.

I'm burning to see Bernier in action though, he could be a real sleeper pickup for Nonis that could keep Reimer on his toes.a) the cap won't be $80m in a year or two.

b) Melnyk still has money. He's just doing what any business man does...bluff that he needs more government assistance. We saw it in Edmonton too.

UWHabs
07-30-2013, 11:35 AM
Because we're saying that he's better than a #3-4 defender with minimal puck skills, overrated by Hockey Canada because he's a "stay at home" defender?

Now that I also agree with. Just because he got an invite to the training camp doesn't mean he's suddenly a God. I mean, surely KB should declare that Kunitz is better than Spezza because Kunitz was invited and Spezza wasn't, right?

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:36 AM
He still hasn't played enough to be properly rated. He had a good rookie season, and then followed it up with an injured campaign. I'd put him basically where Reimer was before last season - he has some promise, has shown flashes of solid play, but he's still unproven as a whole.

Fair.

With that said, like Reimer, whenever he's been healthy, he's been excellent.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:36 AM
Not sure I'd go this far yet, but you might be on to something here. We might be witnessing the birth of yet another in a long, long line of massively overrated and overhyped leaf prospects.

Patrick Eaves
Jim O'Brien
Alexandre Daigle
Eric Chouinard
Martin Prusek
Karel Rachunek
Simon Lajeneusse

You want to play this game?

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:38 AM
a) the cap won't be $80m in a year or two.

I wouldn't bet against that. Back of the napkin math suggests a 70-73 million dollar cap next year. If it's 73, I could easily see 77-78 the year after.


b) Melnyk still has money. He's just doing what any business man does...bluff that he needs more government assistance. We saw it in Edmonton too.

Yeah, I agree with this, though Ottawa is in the same boat that a bunch of small-mid market teams are in. They're starting to reach the point where their internal budget is going to be lower than the cap every year.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 11:38 AM
He still hasn't played enough to be properly rated. He had a good rookie season, and then followed it up with an injured campaign. I'd put him basically where Reimer was before last season - he has some promise, has shown flashes of solid play, but he's still unproven as a whole.

Gardiner has played close to 100 NHL games and during that time, he has performed a top 4 role at a relatively high level.

Unless this is some sort of fluke, there really isn't much question what kind of role he will perform this coming season.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:39 AM
Because you have no point of comparison. What would quantify in your mind as being "clearly better?" To me that would suggest a .940 save percentage, which is better than Hasek ever managed.

So for you to make that claim is clearly outlandish. Why would you make it? You realize Schneider would qualify for the best save percentage in NHL history if he met the minimum requirement for games played?

You realize that, right?

I'm saying your whole argument is nonsensical. Bringing hasek into this discussion is batshit crazy. My statement was,

I think ultimately, within the next 2-3 years, the NHL consensus will be that robin Lehner is a better goalie than Schneider. I think robin Lehner is huge, confident, fiercely competitive, and excellent technically. I think he has all the makings of a star goalie that can play 65+ games as a stud starter and clutch playoff performer. I think that will make him a better goalie than Schneider.

corksens
07-30-2013, 11:41 AM
You should hope Anderson continues his magic into his old age.

I don't expect he can keep it up forever, and will soon fall off a cliff.He's 32.

I swear to god your internet only works on this forum.

corksens
07-30-2013, 11:42 AM
You're right, it isn't close.

On a man by man personnel basis the Leafs blue line is miles better than Ottawa's, which is shambolic beyond EK.I'm really astounded with the lack of credit Methot and Cowen get.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:42 AM
Your argument demonstrates clearly the disease that many of you here are afflicted with. Statsitis. You honestly believe that you can argue through numbers that Schneider and hasek are comparable goalies. Anyone who was alive and who watched both goalies know that is ridiculous. Simply ludicrous. Preposterous. When you're suggesting that a generational, all-time talent is comparable to a guy who has spent most of his career as a backup, outside of a stoppage season, then you're a lunatic.

You descend into full on retard territory when you emphatically ridicule someone who suggests your comparison is wrong.

Not that I agree with Jays' argument (but that's based mostly on sample size and relative quality), but you realize that you're bad mouthing Schneider for being a "career backup" (who of course was only a backup because the starter in Vancouver was a consensus top 5 NHL goalie), when Hasek himself didn't become a starter until he was 27-28 years old, right?

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:43 AM
I'm saying your whole argument is nonsensical. Bringing hasek into this discussion is batshit crazy. My statement was,

I think ultimately, within the next 2-3 years, the NHL consensus will be that robin Lehner is a better goalie than Schneider. I think robin Lehner is huge, confident, fiercely competitive, and excellent technically. I think he has all the makings of a star goalie that can play 65+ games as a stud starter and clutch playoff performer. I think that will make him a better goalie than Schneider.

You didn't say that.

You said, and I quote, that Lehner will be "clearly better." You used those two words exactly. Clearly better would mean a substantial advantage in save percentage.

To have a substantial advantage in save percentage, Lehner would be putting up better numbers than Hasek. What don't you get here?

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:44 AM
Not that I agree with Jays' argument (but that's based mostly on sample size and relative quality), but you realize that you're bad mouthing Schneider for being a "career backup" (who of course was only a backup because the starter in Vancouver was a consensus top 5 NHL goalie), when Hasek himself didn't become a starter until he was 27-28 years old, right?

He was 29 by the time his first Vezina (and full-time starting) campaign ended in 1994 actually.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:46 AM
Patrick Eaves
Jim O'Brien
Alexandre Daigle
Eric Chouinard
Martin Prusek
Karel Rachunek
Simon Lajeneusse

You want to play this game?

You're drunk or on meds this morning. Outside of dawg, who was overhyped by the entire hockey world as a possible generational talent, not a single one of those players was massively overhyped.

Patrick eaves was never seen by us as anything other than a nice third liner, and possible second liner
Jim obrien? Seriously? Who has overhyped him? Show me. F*ck off.
Chouinard! My god. He was a laughingstock. Like the GM who picked him twice was.
Lajeunesse? A nothing prospect, never highly thought of by our fanbase. Never.
Rachunek? When he was playing well as a good top-4 D we all liked him. Nothing more. No one ever said Norris. Ever.
Prusek? Maybe the closest thing to proving your point. I never really was sold on him, but some of our press and fans thought too much of him.

Your list is ridiculous.

UWHabs
07-30-2013, 11:47 AM
Gardiner has played close to 100 NHL games and during that time, he has performed a top 4 role at a relatively high level.

Unless this is some sort of fluke, there really isn't much question what kind of role he will perform this coming season.

He played 75 games as a rookie as a fairly solid top-4 calibre D. Then followed it up with a concussed season where he basically didn't play, and when he did, looked like a marginal talent. Then played really well in a handful of playoff games. I expect him to come in and solidify himself as a top 4 talent next season, but he needs more than 1 season to prove himself. For all we know he'll be the next Meszaros, who has a fantastic rookie season, and it was all downhill after that.

leafman101
07-30-2013, 11:48 AM
But Meszaros can't skate. Typically guys who can skate like Gardiner aren't limited to being marginal players.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:48 AM
Not that I agree with Jays' argument (but that's based mostly on sample size and relative quality), but you realize that you're bad mouthing Schneider for being a "career backup" (who of course was only a backup because the starter in Vancouver was a consensus top 5 NHL goalie), when Hasek himself didn't become a starter until he was 27-28 years old, right?

Go look up "cold war", "east bloc", and "fall of the Berlin Wall" on wikipedia please. Then come back to us.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 11:48 AM
I'm really astounded with the lack of credit Methot and Cowen get.

I'm not. I side with Dave Tippet when it comes to defenders, puck skills or GTFO.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:48 AM
You're drunk or on meds this morning. Outside of dawg, who was overhyped by the entire hockey world as a possible generational talent, not a single one of those players was massively overhyped.

Patrick eaves was never seen by us as anything other than a nice third liner, and possible second liner
Jim obrien? Seriously? Who has overhyped him? Show me. F*ck off.
Chouinard! My god. He was a laughingstock. Like the GM who picked him twice was.
Lajeunesse? A nothing prospect, never highly thought of by our fanbase. Never.
Rachunek? When he was playing well as a good top-4 D we all liked him. Nothing more. No one ever said Norris. Ever.
Prusek? Maybe the closest thing to proving your point. I never really was sold on him, but some of our press and fans thought too much of him.

Your list is ridiculous.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9vtc8Eq8q1rwhmdho1_250.gif

You're absolutely right: Sens fans never pimped out those first and second round failures.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:49 AM
Oh and who remembers the Jani Hurme hype machine? That was amusing for a stretch as well.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:49 AM
But Meszaros can't skate. Typically guys who can skate like Gardiner aren't limited to being marginal players.

Mez was a very good skater for a big man. Age and injury have sapped some of that speed.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:50 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9vtc8Eq8q1rwhmdho1_250.gif

You're absolutely right: Sens fans never pimped out those first and second round failures.

You don't really want to get into comparing drafting records, do you?

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:50 AM
Go look up "cold war", "east bloc", and "fall of the Berlin Wall" on wikipedia please. Then come back to us.

Czechoslovakian players like Peter Stastny were starring in the NHL as early as 1980 (he was 24). Hasek was drafted in 1983. Your argument is invalid.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 11:51 AM
He played 75 games as a rookie as a fairly solid top-4 calibre D. Then followed it up with a concussed season where he basically didn't play, and when he did, looked like a marginal talent. Then played really well in a handful of playoff games. I expect him to come in and solidify himself as a top 4 talent next season, but he needs more than 1 season to prove himself. For all we know he'll be the next Meszaros, who has a fantastic rookie season, and it was all downhill after that.

More like, he had an outstanding rookie season where he played the 3rd most minutes on the Leafs blueline (21:35) while playing at a 35 point pace. He had injuries issues last year and he was inexplicably sat out for most of the season, until the playoffs, when he was the Leafs best defenseman overall.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:51 AM
You don't really want to get into comparing drafting records, do you?

Relevance to the discussion? But hey, if you want to pimp out the fact that you drafted Marian Hossa so long ago that the X-Files was the highest rated show on television and the Spice Girls were the world's biggest musical act, be my guest.

corksens
07-30-2013, 11:52 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9vtc8Eq8q1rwhmdho1_250.gif

You're absolutely right: Sens fans never pimped out those first and second round failures.Of course "we" did. But the Leafs list is equally long...perhaps longer.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:52 AM
Czechoslovakian players like Peter Stastny were starring in the NHL as early as 1980 (he was 24). Hasek was drafted in 1983. Your argument is invalid.

Please go tell me when hasek came over.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:53 AM
Please go tell me when hasek came over.

I'm beginning to see your problem here. You're not familiar with the website commonly known as Hockey-Reference.

It's not any wonder you're so statistically illiterate.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 11:55 AM
Isles Dynasty.

No team has had it's players more overrated than the Sens.

Leafs players are generally underrated. I mean, they had the 10th most in the league last year and everyone talks about how much they suck.

Come on.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 11:57 AM
Czechoslovakian players like Peter Stastny were starring in the NHL as early as 1980 (he was 24). Hasek was drafted in 1983. Your argument is invalid.

Hasek came over when he was 26. He didnt become a full time starter until he was 27.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 11:58 AM
Hasek came over when he was 26. He didnt become a full time starter until he was 27.

He came over when he was 25. He turned 26 that January.

His first full-season starting he got more starts after he turned 29 than when he was 28.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:00 PM
Go look up "cold war", "east bloc", and "fall of the Berlin Wall" on wikipedia please. Then come back to us.

I checked with all 3, and they told me that it had nothing to do with Hasek posting .890 sv%'s in his first 2 NHL seasons at 25 & 26 years old.

worm
07-30-2013, 12:04 PM
Dude... yes you did. You said that he was "clearly better."

Liar.
Need at least 3 clearlys to be believeable.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 12:06 PM
Liar.
Need at least 3 clearlys to be believeable.

:lol

So good.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:07 PM
Jake Gardiner is properly rated.

He's a former 1st round pick, who has performed well in a top 4 role, who has top 2 potential.

You mean the same Jake Gardiner that was healthy enough to play 43 games last year for the Marlies, but couldn't knock "All-Stars" like Frazer, Holzner and Kostka out of a spot on the Leafs porous blueline? That Jake Gardiner?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:10 PM
You mean the same Jake Gardiner that was healthy enough to play 43 games last year for the Marlies, but couldn't knock "All-Stars" like Frazer, Holzner and Kostka out of a spot on the Leafs porous blueline? That Jake Gardiner?

The Jake Gardiner who was the best dmen on the ice for either team against the Cup finalists.

That Jake Gardiner.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:11 PM
The Jake Gardiner who was the best dmen on the ice for either team against the Cup finalists.

That Jake Gardiner.

6 games sample size...nice. hey wasn't even good enough to dress for all 7 games.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:12 PM
6 games sample size...nice. hey wasn't even good enough to dress for all 7 games.

You want a bigger sample?

Look at his rookie year when he played top 3 minutes, at a 30+ point pace.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:14 PM
You mean the same Jake Gardiner that was healthy enough to play 43 games last year for the Marlies, but couldn't knock "All-Stars" like Frazer, Holzner and Kostka out of a spot on the Leafs porous blueline? That Jake Gardiner?

You're aware that most of those AHL games happened in the first half of the season, right? That he was concussed roughly around the start of the shortened NHL season, right?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:15 PM
I cited a bigger sample size.

43 games IN THE AHL...playing behind superstars like Frazer, Kostka and Holzner.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:17 PM
Gardiner, 22 yrs old, NHL Career:

Reg Sea: 87 gms, 7 gls, 34 pts, 21:26 (82 gms, 7 gls, 32 pts)
Playoffs: 6 gms, 1 gls, 5 pts, 23:01 (82 gms, 14 gls, 68 pts)

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:19 PM
I cited a bigger sample size.

43 games IN THE AHL...playing behind superstars like Frazer, Kostka and Holzner.

You don't know what you're talking about.

A large portion of those games were played during the lockout.

He was hurt just before the start of the NHL season. That hurt his chances greatly of getting back into the Leafs lineup, especially considering the Leafs were playing well and they didn't want to make changes.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:24 PM
I cited a bigger sample size.

43 games IN THE AHL...playing behind superstars like Frazer, Kostka and Holzner.

Idiot.

43 games in the AHL, the majority of them spent playing 30 minutes a game, ahead of those guys you just named, prior to the end of the lockout.

How in the **** do you people expect to be taken as anything other than trolls when your arguments are ridden with factual errors?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:25 PM
You're aware that most of those AHL games happened in the first half of the season, right? That he was concussed roughly around the start of the shortened NHL season, right?

You are aware that he played 20 games in the AHL after the start of the NHL season on Jan 19th

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?seasonId=40&id=4023

hockeylover
07-30-2013, 12:33 PM
You're drunk or on meds this morning. Outside of dawg, who was overhyped by the entire hockey world as a possible generational talent, not a single one of those players was massively overhyped.

Patrick eaves was never seen by us as anything other than a nice third liner, and possible second liner
Jim obrien? Seriously? Who has overhyped him? Show me. F*ck off.
Chouinard! My god. He was a laughingstock. Like the GM who picked him twice was.
Lajeunesse? A nothing prospect, never highly thought of by our fanbase. Never.
Rachunek? When he was playing well as a good top-4 D we all liked him. Nothing more. No one ever said Norris. Ever.
Prusek? Maybe the closest thing to proving your point. I never really was sold on him, but some of our press and fans thought too much of him.

Your list is ridiculous.

Kaigorodov? I remember when Rundblad >>>>>>>> every one of our prospects too.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:33 PM
You are aware that he played more than a dozen games in the AHL after the start of the NHL season on Jan 19th and didn't get concussed until a month later, right?

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?seasonId=40&id=4023

Gardiner was concussed in December. He didn't make it back until late January.

He played no games between Dec. 9th - Jan 22nd.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:34 PM
You are aware that he played more than a dozen games in the AHL after the start of the NHL season on Jan 19th and didn't get concussed until a month later, right?

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?seasonId=40&id=4023

Gardiner was concussed on December 9th and the team brought him back slowly.

You're always aware that 31 of 43 would accurately, constitute "most", right?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:37 PM
Gardiner was concussed on December 9th and the team brought him back slowly.

You're always aware that 31 of 43 would accurately, constitute "most", right?

He played 20 games in the AHL after the start of the NHL season.

If he was healthy enough to play in the AHL, he was healthy enough to play in the NHL. The Leafs didn't think he was good enough.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:37 PM
As soon as he was healthy, they put him right into the NHL lineup on Jan 23. He played a couple games, but he was step behind, so they sent him back to the Marlies to get back into game shape.

He stayed with Marlies in Feb and parts of March, before being called up, and he played with the Leafs in March, April and the Playoffs.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:39 PM
He played 20 games in the AHL after the start of the NHL season.

If he was healthy enough to play in the AHL, he was healthy enough to play in the NHL. The Leafs didn't think he was good enough.

This is going to look really silly by December, as silly as your call on Kadri last summer. Remember that? Good times.

Do me a favour and talk shit about Morgan Rielly now.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:39 PM
Lets disregard his rookie season and the playoffs.

Lets focus on the part of his career where he was injured/concussed. That will tell us what kind of player he is!

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:40 PM
#Bustdri

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:42 PM
How'd Kadri look in the second half of the season and playoffs?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:42 PM
#Bustdri

I think I need to bump that thread.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:43 PM
How'd Kadri look in the second half of the season and playoffs?

Haven't you learned your lesson yet about small sample sizes while only looking at the bad, disregarding the good?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:45 PM
Gardiner COULD be a very good Dman. He's shown flashes of brilliance. He's also looked brutal at times. This board focuses on the former and ignores the latter.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:46 PM
Haven't you learned your lesson yet about small sample sizes while only looking at the bad, disregarding the good?

So I'm taking the second half of the season AND playoffs, but you're just focusing on the first half, yet I'm the one guilty of looking at small sample sizes? Gotcha

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:46 PM
N. Kadri, 12/13:

Reg Sea: 48 gms, 18 gls, 44 pts, +15, 16:03 (82 gms, 31 gls, 75 pts, +26)
Playoffs: 7 gms, 1 gls, 4 pts, +5, 13:35 (82 gms, 12 gls, 47 pts, +59)

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:48 PM
Gardiner COULD be a very good Dman. He's shown flashes of brilliance. He's also looked brutal at times. This board focuses on the former and ignores the latter.

Gardiner has never looked brutal.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:49 PM
Gardiner has never looked brutal.

You're right, the Leafs sent him back to the Marlies because he looked so awesome.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:49 PM
So I'm taking the second half of the season AND playoffs, but you're just focusing on the first half, yet I'm the one guilty of looking at small sample sizes? Gotcha

Unlike you, I take into account the ENTIRE season. 48 games. Not the half that helps my argument,

By the way, Kadri played at close to a 50 point pace in the playoffs with only 13 mins of icetime.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:49 PM
N. Kadri, 12/13:

Reg Sea: 48 gms, 18 gls, 44 pts, +15, 16:03 (82 gms, 31 gls, 75 pts, +26)
Playoffs: 7 gms, 1 gls, 4 pts, +5, 13:35 (82 gms, 12 gls, 47 pts, +59)

Now do the last 24 regular season games and playoffs.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:50 PM
You're right, the Leafs sent him back to the Marlies because he looked so awesome.

There's only awesome and brutal. Nothing inbetween that right?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:50 PM
Unlike you, I take into account the ENTIRE season. 48 games. Not the half that helps my argument,

By the way, Kadri played at close to a 50 point pace in the playoffs with only 13 mins of icetime.

Playing so awesome the coach only game him 13 minutes of icetime...

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:51 PM
Now do the last 24 regular season games and playoffs.

This way of thinking, only using his first half AHL numbers last year, did a fantastic job of predicting Kadri's NHL success for you!!!!!

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:52 PM
Playing so awesome the coach only game him 13 minutes of icetime...

Yup. Kadri's the only 22 year old to see limited icetime in his 1st playoff series.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:52 PM
This way of thinking, only using his first half AHL numbers last year, did a fantastic job of predicting Kadri's NHL success for you!!!!!

Hey, I want you to post the larger sample size, but you seem reluctant.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:54 PM
Hey, I want you to post the larger sample size, but you seem reluctant.

I posted the largest sample size we got. His entire reg season and playoffs.

You seem intent on picking and choosing games.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:55 PM
Yup. Kadri's the only 22 year old to see limited icetime in his 1st playoff series.

Kadri was sizzling hot to start and faded noticeably down the stretch and in the playoffs.

The Leafs are pining their hopes that he is the #1C he looked like in the first half.

We'll see if they are correct...if they get him signed.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:55 PM
I posted the largest sample size we got. His entire reg season and playoffs.

You seem intent on picking and choosing games.

Why won't you just post the difference between games he scored in and games he didn't so we can judge how shit he is by the games he didn't score in!


It's awesome that after being so incredibly wrong that he would go back to the well.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:56 PM
I posted the largest sample size we got. His entire reg season and playoffs.

You seem intent on picking and choosing games.

Did Kadri play at the same level in the second half and playoffs?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:57 PM
Kadri was sizzling hot to start and faded noticeably down the stretch and in the playoffs.

The Leafs are pining their hopes that he is the #1C he looked like in the first half.

We'll see if they are correct...if they get him signed.

You mean Kadri wasn't going to keep up the 100 point pace he was playing at for an entire season? He actually had a cold stretch?

Tell us more.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 12:57 PM
Why won't you just post the difference between games he scored in and games he didn't so we can judge how shit he is by the games he didn't score in!


It's awesome that after being so incredibly wrong that he would go back to the well.

Ya, why would we want to take a look at his more recent performance...

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 12:59 PM
Did Kadri play at the same level in the second half and playoffs?

Kadri, 12/13, By Month
Jan: 7 gms, 7 pts (82 gms, 82 pts)
Feb: 15 gms, 14 pts (82 gms, 77 pts)
Mar: 14 gms, 18 pts (82 gms, 105 pts)
Apr: 12 gms, 5 pts (82 gms, 34 pts)

He had a bad April.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 12:59 PM
Ya, why would we want to take a look at his more recent performance...

Because big sample > small sample

Can we judge Karlsson by his small sample 2012-13 now?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:00 PM
You mean Kadri wasn't going to keep up the 100 point pace he was playing at for an entire season? He actually had a cold stretch?

Tell us more.

You mean Kadri had a hot streak after being in game shape by playing in the AHL during the lockout? Tell us more.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 01:01 PM
You mean Kadri had a hot streak after being in game shape by playing in the AHL during the lockout? Tell us more.

Ahh, so now the reason Kadri was one of the best offensive players in the NHL for 35 games was that he was in better shape than everyone else.

I've now officially heard everything.

Somewhere, if there is a god, Dallas Eakins is rolling on the ground laughing at this concept.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:02 PM
You mean Kadri had a hot streak after being in game shape by playing in the AHL during the lockout? Tell us more.

And what advantage would that confer to him in mid-March?

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:02 PM
It's hilarious that Sensible wants to keep up with a discussion about a player he was embarrassingly wrong about.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:03 PM
You mean Kadri had a hot streak after being in game shape by playing in the AHL during the lockout? Tell us more.

He had 1 great month, 2 very good months and 1 bad month. His BEST month came in March. I think by that time everyone was pretty much in game shape.

Don't let the facts get in the way.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 01:03 PM
It's hilarious that Sensible wants to keep up with a discussion about a player he was embarrassingly wrong about.

He just wants to make sure he's in mid season form by training camp.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:06 PM
Ahh, so now the reason Kadri was one of the best offensive players in the NHL for 35 games was that he was in better shape than everyone else.

I've now officially heard everything.

Somewhere, if there is a god, Dallas Eakins is rolling on the ground laughing at this concept.

Of course, his most productive month was March.

How long does it take players to get into game shape. 3 months? 4?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:07 PM
It's hilarious that Sensible wants to keep up with a discussion about a player he was embarrassingly wrong about.

The final chapter has not been written.

Love to see some team offer sheet him right now and really **** the Leafs. I wouldn't even mind if he turned into a PPG player if he was wearing another uni. ;)

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:08 PM
The final chapter has not been written.

Love to see some team offer sheet him right now and really **** the Leafs. I wouldn't even mind if he turned into a PPG player if he was wearing another uni. ;)

Problem is, the Leafs would match any offer.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:10 PM
Training camp is 120 days long apparently.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:10 PM
He just wants to make sure he's in mid season form by training camp.

Hey, I'm just dicking around for old time sakes and to make sure you guys are ready for training camp... hell I'm even lobbing in some BP for you guys...Kadri and Gardiner? If I was serious, I wouldn't be going after players where your side has all the advantages. ;)

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:11 PM
Problem is, the Leafs would match any offer.

Not really a problem because they'd have to overpay for him and lose Franson in the process.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Not really a problem because they'd have to overpay for him and lose Franson in the process.

All it takes is a trade/buyout of Liles and they can pay both.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:13 PM
All it takes is a trade/buyout of Liles and they can pay both.

Depends on the offer sheet.

The Sens don't need him, but have the cap space to really **** over the Leafs if they wanted.

MyNameIsJonas
07-30-2013, 01:13 PM
Do Methot and Cowan have some of your loved ones against their will KB?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:15 PM
Methot and Cowen are both very good.

By the end of this season, this board will have seen the light if they can muster up the honesty to admit it.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:15 PM
Also regarding Kadri in the playoffs...

Once he was bumped up to play with Kessel when Bozak was injured, he had 3 pts in the final 2 playoff games.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:16 PM
Cowen might be the worst even strength defenceman offensively in the league.

UWHabs
07-30-2013, 01:16 PM
Leafs have 6M left. Buyout of Liles saves 3M for this season. So with that, they could afford to spend up to 9M combined on kadri, Franson, and a 3rd/4th line winger. But you also have Liles caphit on the books for the next 6 years. You can make it work, but it would suck for you.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:17 PM
Cowen is a decent bottom pair defender. Methot a decent middle pair defender.

Neither are "very good".

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:17 PM
Would the Leafs match a 5 x 5 offer sheet for Kadri?

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 01:19 PM
Not really a problem because they'd have to overpay for him and lose Franson in the process.

It would **** us short term, but the only way to have us not match would cost 4 1sts.

But out Liles and that would still give us 3.5 to sign Franson. So we'd have to get creative, but it's doable.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 01:19 PM
Would the Leafs match a 5 x 5 offer sheet for Kadri?

Would they have a choice?

That would be a great contract for the Leafs moving forward. It's 2nd line money once the cap goes back up.

UWHabs
07-30-2013, 01:19 PM
Would the Leafs match a 5 x 5 offer sheet for Kadri?

You can't not match that. I mean, a handful of people around here would easily give him 5x4.5, so no reason to walk away over half a mil.

corksens
07-30-2013, 01:20 PM
Cowen is a decent bottom pair defender. Methot a decent middle pair defender.

Neither are "very good".So a 23 year old player ceilings out at a bottom paid defenseman.

What are you on?

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:22 PM
Cowen might be the worst even strength defenceman offensively in the league.

How would we even know?

He's just getting started and coming off major surgery.

He posted reasonable offensive numbers in both the WHL and the AHL playoffs (while playing like a stud defensively during their Calder Cup run).

This one is going to bite this board in the ass big time. Almost as bad as the Chara take post Yashin trade.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:30 PM
Nah, I really don't foresee Cowen making us look nearly as bad as Kadri and Reimer made you guys look. I tend to be incredibly good at judging defencemen too.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:32 PM
Would they have a choice?

That would be a great contract for the Leafs moving forward. It's 2nd line money once the cap goes back up.

What about 6.5 x 4?

Compensation is: Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:32 PM
Nah, I really don't foresee Cowen making us look nearly as bad as Kadri and Reimer made you guys look. I tend to be incredibly good at judging defencemen too.

LOL

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:33 PM
LOL!

At least we know who HA's other alias is now.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:36 PM
LOL!

At least we know who HA's other alias is now.

Don't go Teeds on us. Just laughing at your modesty and your massive ability to delude yourself.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:38 PM
The only thing delusional is believing that Robin Lehner will be the greatest goaltender in NHL history and that Jared Cowen will be an impact defender.

Please, please, please, tell us that Rielly is a bust though.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:41 PM
The only thing delusional is believing that Robin Lehner will be the greatest goaltender in NHL history and that Jared Cowen will be an impact defender.

Please, please, please, tell us that Rielly is a bust though.

Lehner is a stud prospect. Not sure where he'll end up as you can never be sure with goalies, but his top end is very high.

Jared Cowen will be an impact defender. His size, skating and hitting ability all point to top level shut down D.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:42 PM
Please, please, please, tell us that Rielly is a bust though.

My keystrokes change the universe!!! (Insert maniacal laughter)

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:42 PM
Cowen's skating ability? :lol

His lack of mobility and puck-skills are exactly why he's such a limited defenceman. But I mean, Andy Sutton is a massive defender and that's managed to keep him in the NHL for years.

So there's that one supposes.

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 01:44 PM
I love innernet fights!


The only thing delusional is believing that Robin Lehner will be the greatest goaltender in NHL history and that Jared Cowen will be an impact defender.

Please, please, please, tell us that Rielly is a bust though.

You mean the next Marc-Andre Bergeron?

What is with your take on Cowen? He's big, he skates well, he can punch people out, he can put up points.

The guy is a beast. If he can stay healthy, he's going to be a good one.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:44 PM
Cowen's skating ability is good, not excellent, but more than good enough for the role he will play.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:46 PM
I love innernet fights!



You mean the next Marc-Andre Bergeron?

What is with your take on Cowen? He's big, he skates well, he can punch people out, he can put up points.

The guy is a beast. If he can stay healthy, he's going to be a good one.

This board is completely irrational in their hatred for Cowen.

That's great though, it will just make the crow serving so much better latter on.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:46 PM
I love innernet fights!



You mean the next Marc-Andre Bergeron?

What is with your take on Cowen? He's big, he skates well, he can punch people out, he can put up points.

The guy is a beast. If he can stay healthy, he's going to be a good one.

He's big.

He's a poor skater, especially in transition and going east to west. He has limited footwork skills.

I guess being a middleweight is useful in the way that Colton Orr is useful?

He has no ability to put up points. At all. He's virtually useless on the offensive side of the ledger.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:46 PM
Cowen's skating ability is good, not excellent, but more than good enough for the role he will play.

So is Mark Fraser's.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:47 PM
This board is completely irrational in their hatred for Cowen.

That's great though, it will just make the crow serving so much better latter on.

Nothing irrational about it.

This board pumps Karlsson's tires all the time and has done so for months in the PK versus EK debate that Habs fans insist on subjecting the rest of us too.

This board also felt that the Sens made a wonderful trade in acquiring Ryan from Anaheim.

Objectivity is there when called for. But when a player is as unimpressive and limited as Cowen people aren't going to avoid the truth just to suit your sensibilities.

SENSible
07-30-2013, 01:47 PM
He's big.

He's a poor skater, especially in transition and going east to west. He has limited footwork skills.

I guess being a middleweight is useful in the way that Colton Orr is useful?

He has no ability to put up points. At all. He's virtually useless on the offensive side of the ledger.

So much wrong in one post...well done.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 01:48 PM
A player with 1 career power play point in 90 NHL matches is an offensive dynamo?

If you include playoff statistics into the equation Cowen has a total of 22 career points in 107 games.

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 02:01 PM
He also just had his knee and hip rebuilt. Maybe he came back early?

I'm surprised that a self professed defenseman scout guru is writing off a 23 year old guy.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 02:01 PM
So a 23 year old player ceilings out at a bottom paid defenseman.

What are you on?

CURRENTLY.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 02:03 PM
He also just had his knee and hip rebuilt. Maybe he came back early?

I'm surprised that a self professed defenseman scout guru is writing off a 23 year old guy.

Nothing I have seen from him, from junior in Spokane, to his NHL play, suggests a player of high upside.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 02:03 PM
Cowen is a poor mans Schenn.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 02:04 PM
If it will make Sens fans feel better, I feel similarly about Tinordi in Montreal's system that I do about Cowen. I just dislike offensively-deficient big defenders drafted high because they are big.

The days of guys like Mike Rathje and Derian Hatcher being impact performers is over.

worm
07-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Cowen might be the worst even strength defenceman offensively in the league.

Josh Gorges is crushed.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Cowen is a low upside player. He has too many offensive limitations to every be a top pairing defender.

He's going to be a solid bottom pair guy, maybe a middle pair guy. But guys like him are not unique nor are they hard to find. I hope the Sens give him a big contract though.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 02:10 PM
Ceci is a much better prospect than Cowen.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 02:13 PM
Yeah, I don't know why there are accusations of bias being thrown our way when we have proven more than willing in this very off-season to grant Ottawa a great deal of credit towards their other players.

If a guy can play, he can play. Ceci is one hell of a prospect in his own right, certainly. Much better than Cowen.

worm
07-30-2013, 02:14 PM
If it will make Sens fans feel better, I feel similarly about Tinordi in Montreal's system that I do about Cowen. I just dislike offensively-deficient big defenders drafted high because they are big.

The days of guys like Mike Rathje and Derian Hatcher being impact performers is over.

Didnt mind the pick...hated that we traded up for it.

Picking him at 26th would not have been terrible.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 02:15 PM
Didnt mind the pick...hated that we traded up for it.

Picking him at 26th would not have been terrible.

I thought you guys should have gone with Petrovic there personally. I think I even posted in your thread urging you to take him. An absolutely perfect fit for your system.

worm
07-30-2013, 02:18 PM
I thought you guys should have gone with Petrovic there personally. I think I even posted in your thread urging you to take him. An absolutely perfect fit for your system.

I think I wanted Etem. But meh. Just hope he turns into a decent defensive Dman.

theREALkoreaboy
07-30-2013, 02:26 PM
Cowen might be the worst even strength defenceman offensively in the league.

Full, full retard. You're having a really bad day today. I mean, we're talking Bryan McCabe -5 against the Flyers kinda bad day here.

JaysCyYoung
07-30-2013, 02:28 PM
The same McCabe that was one of three or four best offensive defenders in hockey, nominated for the Norris and named a Second Team All-Star with Chris Pronger?

Volcanologist
07-30-2013, 02:57 PM
I actually laughed harder at the Weirdpenis >> Ranger one.

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 03:38 PM
The same McCabe that was one of three or four best offensive defenders in hockey, nominated for the Norris and named a Second Team All-Star with Chris Pronger?

Is that the same one that had his stool pushed in by Mr. Chara?

corksens
07-30-2013, 05:04 PM
The only thing delusional is believing that Robin Lehner will be the greatest goaltender in NHL history and that Jared Cowen will be an impact defender.

Please, please, please, tell us that Rielly is a bust though.You've really crafted that "prediction" out of nothing. You're better than that, man.

And Cowen will be an impact defender. Unless you like writing off 23 year old player who suffered a near season ending injury...

corksens
07-30-2013, 05:10 PM
Sorry - he's 22 actually. My bad.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 05:38 PM
I wrote Cowen off as a prospect well before his season ending surgery. I wrote him off right around draft time.

corksens
07-30-2013, 05:42 PM
I wrote Cowen off as a prospect well before his season ending surgery. I wrote him off right around draft time.

Right around the time you didn't draft him. Got it.

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 05:43 PM
I wrote Cowen off as a prospect well before his season ending surgery. I wrote him off right around draft time.

Yeah but you're a Leafs fan. What do you know about anything.

That is just dumb. He was a top 5 guy before he hurt his knee. People criticize his skating after he had hip surgery and came back way earlier than he should have.

He was an absolute BOSS in his first game back. He has bad games, bad shifts, all players do, especially young defensemen.

But, you know all that.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 05:43 PM
No, right around the time I said I would freak out if they drafted him. Like I freaked out about the Schenn pick.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 05:44 PM
Yeah but you're a Leafs fan. What do you know about anything.

Center of the universe baby.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 05:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzgalcl3tD8

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 05:56 PM
I can't see youtube at work, but I'm assuming it's the Murray / Burke draft day Kadri pick video.

worm
07-30-2013, 05:57 PM
I prefer the GM that isnt suing leaf fans.

corksens
07-30-2013, 06:28 PM
Yeah but you're a Leafs fan. What do you know about anything.

That is just dumb. He was a top 5 guy before he hurt his knee. People criticize his skating after he had hip surgery and came back way earlier than he should have.

He was an absolute BOSS in his first game back. He has bad games, bad shifts, all players do, especially young defensemen.

But, you know all that.I was at that game. He was a beast.

The fact that Leaf fans are writing off a 22 year old opposing defenseman is hilarious. Not to mention the fact that he missed almost a whole season.

The guy is going to be a part of a good blueline for years.

corksens
07-30-2013, 06:29 PM
Also, just to set expectations.

I see no reason why he can't be a 7-10 goal 22-30point shutdown defenseman as he grows and develops.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 06:31 PM
Also, just to set expectations.

I see no reason why he can't be a 7-10 goal 22-30point shutdown defenseman as he grows and develops.

Sounds like the explanation people use to defend using a top pick on Schenn eh?

When his "top" potential is 30 points, that isn't a good sign for a top 10 pick.

JohnnyHolmes
07-30-2013, 06:31 PM
PPG.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 06:33 PM
It's hilarious that Corks trashed the Schenn pick, but celebrates the Cowen pick.

Both top 10 picks whose upsides are almost identical.

corksens
07-30-2013, 06:35 PM
Sounds like the explanation people use to defend using a top pick on Schenn eh?

When his "top" potential is 30 points, that isn't a good sign for a top 10 pick.Well when he's getting likened to Cory Cross, I don't think a 30 point defenseman is a bad thing.

If he turned into a Schenn type player (aka Phillips 2.0) then I'd be fine with everything.

corksens
07-30-2013, 06:36 PM
It's hilarious that Corks trashed the Schenn pick, but celebrates the Cowen pick.

Both top 10 picks whose upsides are almost identical.Never, ever trashed the Schenn pick. Just called him for what he is, Phillips 2.0.

The difference for Cowen is that he's physically a beast. 6'5 and 230 at age 22. That's the edge.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
07-30-2013, 06:38 PM
Cowen, Schenn, Phillips were all bad top 10 picks. None of them have the upside to justify high selections. You can easily pickup a player like this in FA every year for just cash.

corksens
07-30-2013, 06:41 PM
Alot of first round picks don't even play in the league.

If we get a guy who puts up 30 points or so and logs 22+ minutes of quality defense I'll be fine with his progression.

worm
07-30-2013, 06:47 PM
Cowen, Schenn, Phillips were all bad top 10 picks. None of them have the upside to justify high selections. You can easily pickup a player like this in FA every year for just cash.

lol

Daniel Briere was the only first rounder better than Phillips and he was on waivers before.

Chara and Briere were probably the only better players in that draft.

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 06:49 PM
Never, ever trashed the Schenn pick. Just called him for what he is, Phillips 2.0.

The difference for Cowen is that he's physically a beast. 6'5 and 230 at age 22. That's the edge.

What edge? Schenn is 10 pounds lighter but way more physical.

zeke
07-30-2013, 07:40 PM
The Sens were ravaged by injury last year and still ended up with the best result between our three teams.

come again?

MindzEye
07-30-2013, 07:42 PM
come again?

making the 2nd round because the Habs rolled over and played dead means they had a better result than a team that finished ahead of them and went to a 1st round game 7 OT against the Eastern Conference champ.

zeke
07-30-2013, 07:44 PM
1. Hot Karl >> Phaneuf
2. Methot >> Gardiner
3. Cowen>= Franson
4. Gunnarsson> Phillips
5. Weircioch >> Ranger
6. Corvo = Liles/fraser

Our depth beyond #6>> yours

Phaneuf = Karlsson
Gardiner = Methot

Gunnar = Phillips
Franson > Cowen

Ranger > Corvo
fraser = Gryba
Lilies > Wiercicoch

TheCountofMonteCristo
07-30-2013, 07:46 PM
not sure what is worse, losing with half a team like we did or being up by two with a minute to go and losing in game 7.

TheCountofMonteCristo
07-30-2013, 07:48 PM
All I know is that in 2011 when we went to Game 7 OT against the eventual cup winners, we didn't get much credit so not sure why Leafs should after last year's playoffs.

zeke
07-30-2013, 07:48 PM
Jake Gardiner is now officially the most overrated Leaf in the history of this forum and with the ridiculous homers that populate this location, that is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

D J.Gardiner (21-22): 87gms, 7gls, 34pts, 65ht, 105bk, 21:26 (82gms, 7gls, 32pts, 61ht, 99bk) --- PLYF: 6gms, 1gls, 5pts, 13ht, 13bk, 23:01 (82gms, 14gls, 68pts, 180ht, 180bk)

How do you think he should be rated?

zeke
07-30-2013, 07:50 PM
You're drunk or on meds this morning. Outside of dawg, who was overhyped by the entire hockey world as a possible generational talent, not a single one of those players was massively overhyped.

Patrick eaves was never seen by us as anything other than a nice third liner, and possible second liner
Rachunek? When he was playing well as a good top-4 D we all liked him. Nothing more. No one ever said Norris. Ever.
Prusek? Maybe the closest thing to proving your point. I never really was sold on him, but some of our press and fans thought too much of him.

Your list is ridiculous.

hilarious.

Eaves was a 1st liner in the making, and worlds better than Steen.

Rachunek was the next great Sens dman.

Prusek was a star goalie in the making.

your memory is hilarious.

zeke
07-30-2013, 07:53 PM
Kaigorodov? I remember when Rundblad >>>>>>>> every one of our prospects too.

why stop there?

Bochenski, Regin, Schastlivy, and Schafer were all primed to dominate the NHL for years.