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Aberdeen
09-23-2013, 08:21 PM
Don't recall seeing one of these for this season. Any big surprises in store?

I'm picking Jake Gardiner to break out. I know that's not that bold, but I think he'll be considered a star by next season. I just see him as very different already this season, even more confident and stronger on the puck.

Also, ummm, Buffalo finishes last in the NHL :smilewinkgrin:

Metalleaf
09-23-2013, 08:26 PM
-Most people will be glad David Clarkson is a Leaf by season's end.

-Carter Ashton plays the full season.

-Kadri leads the team in points.

Killer93
09-23-2013, 08:46 PM
Bozak scores less then 50 pts;
Lupul gets over 30 goals

theREALkoreaboy
09-23-2013, 08:53 PM
Lupul is a guy on your team I actually respect.

Aberdeen
09-23-2013, 09:03 PM
Bozak scores less then 50 pts;
Lupul gets over 30 goals

Ya I'm not getting a good vibe from bozak this year. But it's hard to look too bad playing with kessel .

johnunit
09-23-2013, 09:08 PM
We know who are #1 goalie is by the end of the year. One of the two flounders (or dominates).

Montana
09-23-2013, 09:09 PM
- Bernier wins the #1 job, posts a sv% over .920, and takes us past the first round of the playoffs.

- Kessel scores 45

- Raymond pots 20

- Rielly is on the top PP unit by seasons end.

- Kadri doesn't top 60 points.

Bleedsblue&white
09-23-2013, 09:28 PM
Kessel's getting fifty.

TimHorton
09-23-2013, 09:31 PM
Phaneuf's early season play warrants a place in Sochi........he doesn't get it.

hockeylover
09-23-2013, 09:35 PM
- Kadri doesn't top 60 points.

Crazy.

Metalleaf
09-23-2013, 09:53 PM
Phaneuf's early season play warrants a place in Sochi........he doesn't get it.

That's not a bold prediction, we all know Team Canada will undervalue Phaneuf's performance.

leaffan2005
09-23-2013, 09:57 PM
Lupul is a guy on your team I actually respect.

Oh phew. Was getting worried there.

MyNameIsJonas
09-23-2013, 10:07 PM
Nikolai Kulemin is traded before the deadline.

leaffan2005
09-23-2013, 10:23 PM
Jonas continues to be a Hawks fan even though they miss the playoffs.

/thread

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:36 PM
Devils finish 14th in the East. They suck.

Pronger84
09-23-2013, 10:38 PM
My predictions for the leafs

- Kessel hits 90 points
- Franson is traded to Calgary for a pick/prospect
- Kadri muscles his way into the 1C role
- Reimer outplays Bernier
- Leafs make it to the playoffs and get to the 2nd round

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:42 PM
My prediction for the Leafs is that they aren't going to be as good as everyone here is expecting them to be.

LeafOfFaith
09-23-2013, 10:48 PM
Leafs get home ice.
JVR has an elite season - 70 points-ish.
Colborne acquits himself and becomes a mainstay, which causes the Leafs to let Bolland walk as a UFA.
Kessel scores 40+, leads the team in scoring.
Lupul battles injuries all season.
Gardiner becomes a superstar, rivaling PK in all discussions.
Phaneuf re-signs soon and has a decent year, but not spectacular.
Reimer beats out Bernier for the starter's job, causing the Leafs to trade Bernier in the offseason.
Ashton is with the team all year and proves a valuable bottom 6 guy.
Rielly doesn't make it until next year.

hockeylover
09-23-2013, 10:49 PM
My prediction for the Leafs is that they aren't going to be as good as everyone here is expecting them to be.

Haha, shocking.

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:50 PM
Your expectations are WAY too high for the team.

Metalleaf
09-23-2013, 10:51 PM
My expectations is that they'll finish 5th again over 82 games, hardly outlandish.

hockeylover
09-23-2013, 10:52 PM
Your expectations are WAY too high for the team.

:lol

Mine? I haven't even said what they are yet.

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:53 PM
Leafs get home ice.Disagree
JVR has an elite season - 70 points-ish.Disagree 55-60
Colborne acquits himself and becomes a mainstay, which causes the Leafs to let Bolland walk as a UFA. Disagree, Colborne sucks
Kessel scores 40+, leads the team in scoring. Water is wet. I don't think he hits 40 but will come close
Lupul battles injuries all season. This is bold?
Gardiner becomes a superstar, rivaling PK in all discussions.Beer just came out my nose.
Phaneuf re-signs soon and has a decent year, but not spectacular.Who cares
Reimer beats out Bernier for the starter's job, causing the Leafs to trade Bernier in the offseason.Trade Bernier? Nope. Platoon all year too.
Ashton is with the team all year and proves a valuable bottom 6 guy. Entirely possible
Rielly doesn't make it until next year. QBing your PP after the Olympics.


I disagree with most of your assessment.

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:54 PM
:lol

Mine? I haven't even said what they are yet.

Yours = the boards. Just from what I have read.

So what are your own personal expectations then?

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:55 PM
My expectations is that they'll finish 5th again over 82 games, hardly outlandish.

It'll be tight. Points total?

hockeylover
09-23-2013, 10:55 PM
I think we'll make the playoffs in a wild card spot.

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:56 PM
Realistic.

Metalleaf
09-23-2013, 10:57 PM
It'll be tight. Points total?

haven't decided, but this isn't the thread for that...this is for bold predictions.

Habsy
09-23-2013, 10:57 PM
Ok, bold prediction. The Habs finish above the Leafs.

hockeylover
09-23-2013, 11:00 PM
- the Leafs will be top 10 in GF for a third straight season confusing all the people clinging to the high SV% argument
- Phil Kessel finishes in the top 10 in scoring for a third straight year
- Reimer starts more games than Bernier
- Lupul plays 70 games
- Rielly makes it

Nothing that outlandish really. Probably Lupul staying reasonably healthy would be the most surprising thing on my list.

Corky27
09-23-2013, 11:01 PM
Bold prediction. Leafs are legit contenders.

hockeylover
09-23-2013, 11:02 PM
Oh. And I bet our CORSI sucks again but we make it anyway.

Metalleaf
09-23-2013, 11:02 PM
Clarkson gets 30 goals.

MindzEye
09-23-2013, 11:34 PM
It'll be tight. Points total?

- 99 points on the season
- Kadri shuts the world up with a 75-80 point performance
- Rielly makes the team and is in the conversation for the Calder
- Gardiner takes Franson's spot on the top PP unit and challenges 50 points
- Both Bernier & Reimer put up .918% or better
- Clarkson will be loved by the fanbase, hated by the board
- Leafs make ECF

Habsy
09-24-2013, 01:50 AM
Some of those are pretty bold, especially the last one.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 01:59 AM
Some of those are pretty bold, especially the last one.

Leafs are in the same type of position teams like the Kings & Blackhawks were in before they ascended to legitimate contender status. Pile of young talent already established with additional young talent starting to push through and make big impacts. The addition of Gardiner & Rielly to this group is huge.

TheMightyIgor
09-24-2013, 04:01 AM
Leafs are in the same type of position teams like the Kings & Blackhawks were in before they ascended to legitimate contender status. Pile of young talent already established with additional young talent starting to push through and make big impacts. The addition of Gardiner & Rielly to this group is huge.

Blatant homerism. The Leafs have one elite player, Kessel, while the Kings and Hawks had numerous elite players - Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick along with other good players.

JohnnyHolmes
09-24-2013, 04:37 AM
-Most people will be glad David Clarkson is a Leaf by season's end.

If you mean the fans of the 29 other teams, you are probably right.

soco22
09-24-2013, 04:56 AM
Leafs will take a step back this season. Kessel doesn't sign, forced to trade at deadline. Phaneuf re-ups. Clarkson is booed by crowd near end of <15 goal campaign

Bright spots - lupul stays healthy, kadri hits 80 pts, gardiner hits 45 pts and kuli pots 20 goals. Kessel on pace for 35/75.

Lowlights - Bozak takes step back and cannot handle pressure of contract, ditto for clarkson, phanuef has off year, goalie "competition" makes Reimer ask quietly for trade.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 08:19 AM
The Leafs are a legit Stanley Cup contender.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 08:20 AM
My prediction for the Leafs is that they aren't going to be as good as everyone here is expecting them to be.

You said that last year...and then the Leafs finished with a top 10 record.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 08:28 AM
Blatant homerism. The Leafs have one elite player, Kessel, while the Kings and Hawks had numerous elite players - Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick along with other good players.

Kessel, Lupul, Phaneuf, Reimer have all been top players at their positions over the last 2-3 years.

And if Kadri has a repeat of last year, you can add him to the list.

Artnes
09-24-2013, 09:25 AM
Kessel finally hits the 40 goal mark
Bernier takes over full time after the Xmas break
Raymond hits 25 goals again

CH1
09-24-2013, 09:27 AM
Leafs are in the same type of position teams like the Kings & Blackhawks were in before they ascended to legitimate contender status. Pile of young talent already established with additional young talent starting to push through and make big impacts. The addition of Gardiner & Rielly to this group is huge.

Leafs still need that deluxe centre

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 09:28 AM
Kadri was 12th among C's in scoring last year.

CH1
09-24-2013, 09:37 AM
Kadri was 12th among C's in scoring last year.

Kessel was 4th according to nhl.com

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20122013&gameType=2&team=&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=summary#

I like Kadri, but if I'm a Leaf fan, I want to see more premium depth down the middle. Kadri + a Patrice Bergeron type would be a nice 1-2 punch.

zeke
09-24-2013, 09:43 AM
Leafs win the conference.

leafman101
09-24-2013, 09:58 AM
Most teams wish they could add a Patrice Bergeron.

CH1
09-24-2013, 09:59 AM
Most teams wish they could add a Patrice Bergeron.

yes, and most teams don't win the Cup

leafman101
09-24-2013, 10:02 AM
Maybe not..but teams with Dave Bolland as their 2nd line Center have.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 10:54 AM
Blatant homerism. The Leafs have one elite player, Kessel, while the Kings and Hawks had numerous elite players - Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick along with other good players.

Kadri, Lupul, Phaneuf, Reimer....

It's odd that only Leaf players don't belong in the conversation with players they either match, or best statistically.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 10:55 AM
Leafs still need that deluxe centre


Kadri

Volcanologist
09-24-2013, 10:57 AM
Maybe not..but teams with Dave Bolland as their 2nd line Center have.

If Kadri is the real thing then that's the biggest organizational need filled. Hopefully he can get the face offs closer to 50.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 10:58 AM
I like Kadri, but if I'm a Leaf fan, I want to see more premium depth down the middle. Kadri + a Patrice Bergeron type would be a nice 1-2 punch.

So would we all, but Kadri-Bolland-Bozak isn't a bad group. Don't be too surprised either if our "Patrice Bergeron" is of the 6'5 variety and joins this group in 2-3 years.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 10:59 AM
I think our biggest holes right now are another top pairing defenseman and a #1C and we've got Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly as possibilities to fill those holes so it's not looking too bad at all.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 11:27 AM
You said that last year...and then the Leafs finished with a top 10 record.

I also said the Habs would finish above the Leafs and this after finishing last in the East two seasons ago.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 11:28 AM
Leafs still need that deluxe centre

So do the Habs.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 11:29 AM
I think our biggest holes right now are another top pairing defenseman and a #1C and we've got Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly as possibilities to fill those holes so it's not looking too bad at all.

If you look at the Chicago model, the Leafs are missing a Toews, Keith and Seabrook. No Phaneuf doesn't make up for one of those.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 11:30 AM
If you look at the Chicago model, the Leafs are missing a Toews, Keith and Seabrook. No Phaneuf doesn't make up for one of those.

Keith AND Seabrook? Yeah, okay.

zeke
09-24-2013, 11:31 AM
Phaneuf is better than Seabrook, comparable to Keith.

corksens
09-24-2013, 11:33 AM
Maybe not..but teams with Dave Bolland as their 2nd line Center have.Teams can win with Bolland as their #2 centre, when their #1 centre is one of the best in the world.

corksens
09-24-2013, 11:34 AM
Phaneuf is just as good as Seabrook, in my opinion.

But they are missing a Toews and Keith, for sure.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 11:34 AM
Habs fans talking about the Leafs missing players from "The Chicago Model" is pretty rich actually.

zeke
09-24-2013, 11:35 AM
Teams can win with Bolland as their #2 centre, when their #1 centre is one of the best in the world.

good thing Bolland is our #3 centre.

corksens
09-24-2013, 11:38 AM
Kadri
Bozak
Bolland

Isn't a cup winning centre core.

TheMightyIgor
09-24-2013, 11:39 AM
Kadri, Lupul, Phaneuf, Reimer....

It's odd that only Leaf players don't belong in the conversation with players they either match, or best statistically.


How does Reimer match Quick? That's silly. Reimer may get beat out by Bernier who the Kings dumped because Quick is much better.

How does Kadri's top season of 44 points match up with the top seasons of Toews and Kopitar?

How does Lupul's career average of 0.64 points per game match up against the same for Kane and Hossa who both have career ppg averages in excess of 0.9?

And no one except a Leaf fan would trade Doughty for Phaneuf, Doughty is a lock for the Olympic team and made it the last time. Phaneuf didn't make that team the last time and has an outside shot at it this time.

TheMightyIgor
09-24-2013, 11:40 AM
Phaneuf is just as good as Seabrook, in my opinion.

But they are missing a Toews and Keith, for sure.

And a Hossa and a Sharp.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 11:42 AM
Kadri
Bozak
Bolland

Isn't a cup winning centre core.

Most people acknowledge we need an upgrade at #1C and a top pairing defenseman, whether that comes internally or not.

JohnnyHolmes
09-24-2013, 11:42 AM
And a Hossa and a Sharp.

Outside of Kessel, Kadri and Lupul if he can ever stay healthy...the Leafs don't have much firepower.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 11:43 AM
And a Hossa and a Sharp.

How the **** are we missing a Patrick Sharp? He's Patrick Sharp for christ's sake. Even corksens is smarter than that.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 11:45 AM
Outside of Kessel, Kadri and Lupul if he can ever stay healthy...the Leafs don't have much firepower.

Top 10 in scoring the last two years, every single one of our third liners this season will have had 20 goal seasons (or Bolland at 19, for the petty people on this board), a very, very mobile and puck moving blueline.

You'll figure it out soon enough.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 11:45 AM
Over the last 2-3 years...

*Kessel/Lupul have been two of the highest scoring wingers in hockey.
*Reimer has posted a top 10 SV% in 2 of the last 3 years.
*Phaneuf has ranked highly in almost all major dman categories.

All of these players rank near the top at thier respective positions.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 11:46 AM
Outside of Kessel, Kadri and Lupul if he can ever stay healthy...the Leafs don't have much firepower.

Ya, they've just been a top 10 scoring team two years in a row by fluke.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 11:48 AM
And Johnny, how many teams do you think had 3 players who played at 70+ point pace last year?

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 11:50 AM
How the **** are we missing a Patrick Sharp? He's Patrick Sharp for christ's sake. Even corksens is smarter than that.

Patrick Sharp is pretty fkn good.

TheMightyIgor
09-24-2013, 11:51 AM
How the **** are we missing a Patrick Sharp? He's Patrick Sharp for christ's sake. Even corksens is smarter than that.

Okay. So which of your wingers, that can also play center, has multiple 30+ goal season under his belt?

Just because you underrate Sharp while overrating your own players doesn't mean that Sharp isn't really good.

corksens
09-24-2013, 11:51 AM
Most people acknowledge we need an upgrade at #1C and a top pairing defenseman, whether that comes internally or not.Fair enough. I was responding more to zeke I guess.

corksens
09-24-2013, 11:52 AM
How the **** are we missing a Patrick Sharp? He's Patrick Sharp for christ's sake. Even corksens is smarter than that.Luv u 2

corksens
09-24-2013, 11:55 AM
Top 10 in scoring the last two years, every single one of our third liners this season will have had 20 goal seasons (or Bolland at 19, for the petty people on this board), a very, very mobile and puck moving blueline.

You'll figure it out soon enough.Heard this alot lately. If you put most 3rd liners in a top-6 role with elite talent (Bolland) they'll score 20 goals. Kulemin scored 20+ playing on the Leafs top line.

Hell, Patrick Eaves scored 20 goals once with the Sens, that doesn't mean he'll do it again while on the 3rd line.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 11:57 AM
How does Reimer match Quick? That's silly. Reimer may get beat out by Bernier who the Kings dumped because Quick is much better.

Which Quick? The .930sv% Quick, or the .902sv% Quick? The .902% Quick isn't much better than many goalies in the league, nevermind a young goalie on the cusp of establishing himself as a consistent .920%+ goalie.


How does Kadri's top season of 44 points match up with the top seasons of Toews and Kopitar?

In PPG? Not terribly. At 22 yrs old Kadri was .92, Toews .95 and Kopitar .99


How does Lupul's career average of 0.64 points per game match up against the same for Kane and Hossa who both have career ppg averages in excess of 0.9?

Not well, but Lupul's PPG of .93 since joining the Leafs a few years ago compares well against them.


And no one except a Leaf fan would trade Doughty for Phaneuf, Doughty is a lock for the Olympic team and made it the last time. Phaneuf didn't make that team the last time and has an outside shot at it this time.

Phaneuf is better offensively, at least as good defensively and more physical than Doughty, I could give a **** about the opinions of the people who make choosing the Canadian Olympic team far harder than it should be.

zeke
09-24-2013, 11:59 AM
Career

D.Phaneuf (28): 600gms, 106gls, 340pts, 1477ht, 790bk, 25:01 (82gms, 15gls, 47pts, 202ht, 108bk)
D D.Keith (30): 607gms, 59gls, 309pts, 428ht, 954bk, 25:23 (82gms, 8gls, 42pts, 58ht, 129bk)
D B.Seabrook (28): 599gms, 56gls, 246pts, 1338ht, 1007bk, 22:34 (82gms, 8gls, 34pts, 183ht, 138bk)

2yrs

D D.Phaneuf (28): 130gms, 21gls, 72pts, 345ht, 218bk, 25:15 (82gms, 13gls, 45pts, 218ht, 138bk)
D D.Keith (30): 121gms, 7gls, 67pts, 64ht, 187bk, 25:49 (82gms, 5gls, 45pts, 43ht, 127bk)
D B.Seabrook (28): 125gms, 17gls, 54pts, 304ht, 268bk, 23:42 (82gms, 11gls, 35pts, 199ht, 176bk)

Last Year

D D.Phaneuf (27): 48gms, 9gls, 28pts, 131ht, 91bk, 25:11 (82gms, 15gls, 48pts, 224ht, 156bk)
D D.Keith (29): 47gms, 3gls, 27pts, 19ht, 66bk, 24:07 (82gms, 5gls, 47pts, 33ht, 115bk)
D B.Seabrook (27): 47gms, 8gls, 20pts, 106ht, 103bk, 22:00 (82gms, 14gls, 35pts, 185ht, 180bk)



Phaneuf and Keith are comparable top notch #1 defensmen. Seabrook is a quality #2.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 11:59 AM
Outside of Kessel, Kadri and Lupul if he can ever stay healthy...the Leafs don't have much firepower.

Yes, outside of our 3 .9PPG+ players, we lack offensive firepower...well, other than the pile of ~45-55 point guys we have and one of the best offensive bluelines in the league of course, but yeah, what you said.

JohnnyHolmes
09-24-2013, 11:59 AM
3 good players then a dung heap.

That's your team.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 12:00 PM
Career

D.Phaneuf (28): 600gms, 106gls, 340pts, 1477ht, 790bk, 25:01 (82gms, 15gls, 47pts, 202ht, 108bk)
D D.Keith (30): 607gms, 59gls, 309pts, 428ht, 954bk, 25:23 (82gms, 8gls, 42pts, 58ht, 129bk)
D B.Seabrook (28): 599gms, 56gls, 246pts, 1338ht, 1007bk, 22:34 (82gms, 8gls, 34pts, 183ht, 138bk)

2yrs

D D.Phaneuf (28): 130gms, 21gls, 72pts, 345ht, 218bk, 25:15 (82gms, 13gls, 45pts, 218ht, 138bk)
D D.Keith (30): 121gms, 7gls, 67pts, 64ht, 187bk, 25:49 (82gms, 5gls, 45pts, 43ht, 127bk)
D B.Seabrook (28): 125gms, 17gls, 54pts, 304ht, 268bk, 23:42 (82gms, 11gls, 35pts, 199ht, 176bk)

Last Year

D D.Phaneuf (27): 48gms, 9gls, 28pts, 131ht, 91bk, 25:11 (82gms, 15gls, 48pts, 224ht, 156bk)
D D.Keith (29): 47gms, 3gls, 27pts, 19ht, 66bk, 24:07 (82gms, 5gls, 47pts, 33ht, 115bk)
D B.Seabrook (27): 47gms, 8gls, 20pts, 106ht, 103bk, 22:00 (82gms, 14gls, 35pts, 185ht, 180bk)



Phaneuf and Keith are comparable top notch #1 defensmen. Seabrook is a quality #2.

Only a Leaf can be statistically similar or superior to players who "everyone" considers better than they are.

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:01 PM
Kadri
Bozak
Bolland

Isn't a cup winning centre core.

If Kadri keeps doing what he's been doing (i.e. Spezza-with-balls), then sure it is.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 12:01 PM
3 good players then a dung heap.

That's your team.


You know, KB has become a much better troll than you.

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:01 PM
3 good players then a dung heap.

That's your team.

not only do we have a nice group of elite young talent at the top of our team, but we're one of the deepest teams in hockey, no less.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 12:05 PM
Last year, the only teams to have a top 12 scoring defenseman, top 12 scoring winger, top 12 scoring centre and a top 12 SV% goalie were:

Chicago
Pittsburgh
Detriot
Toronto

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 12:09 PM
Some people need to learn how to ****ing read as well. I clearly stated that I believe that the Leafs are entering into the same type of period that young perennial contending teams like the Hawks & Kings were in, immediately before they entered into that stage. Patrick Sharp didn't have "multiple 30 goal seasons" at that point in time...infact, he had zero. He was a 25 yr old coming off of his first 30 goal season when Chicago made their first deep playoff run with that group.

Nobody is trying to compare the current Leafs to the product of those successful Cup runs, but what they were before that.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 12:09 PM
Last year, the only teams to have a top 12 scoring defenseman, top 12 scoring winger, top 12 scoring centre and a top 12 SV% goalie were:

Chicago
Pittsburgh
Detriot
Toronto

Your honour, I rest my balls.

JohnnyHolmes
09-24-2013, 12:09 PM
:lol @ top 12...

Yes, the top 12 standard.

:lol

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 12:10 PM
3 good players then a dung heap.

That's your team.

Van Reimsdyk would have been the top scorer on the Sens last year.

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 12:11 PM
Chicago has never had anyone as useless as Bozak in their top 6...

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 12:12 PM
:lol @ top 12...

Yes, the top 12 standard.

:lol

Laugh all you want, but the Leafs had top producers at every position. And those players are young.

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:12 PM
How does Reimer match Quick? That's silly. Reimer may get beat out by Bernier who the Kings dumped because Quick is much better.

Right now Quick has one great regular season and two great playoff runs. What he's done in the playoffs is remarkable, though Reimer can match his regular performance....and Reimer is well ahead of where Quick was at the same age.



How does Kadri's top season of 44 points match up with the top seasons of Toews and Kopitar?

Kadri's 0.92ppg last year compares quite well with Toews' 1.02 and Kopitar's 0.99.


How does Lupul's career average of 0.64 points per game match up against the same for Kane and Hossa who both have career ppg averages in excess of 0.9?

12/13

Kane 1.17
Lupul 1.13
Kessel 1.08
Hossa 0.78
Sharp 0.71
VanR 0.67

11/12

Lupul 1.02
Kessel 1.00
Hossa 0.95
Sharp 0.93
Kane 0.80
VanR 0.56




And no one except a Leaf fan would trade Doughty for Phaneuf, Doughty is a lock for the Olympic team and made it the last time. Phaneuf didn't make that team the last time and has an outside shot at it this time.

reputation is a funny thing. LA fans were pretty disgusted with Doughty most of last year.

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:14 PM
Van Reimsdyk would have been the top scorer on the Sens last year.

snap

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:14 PM
Chicago has never had anyone as useless as Bozak in their top 6...

um, Bolland's playing behind Bozak this year, fyi.

corksens
09-24-2013, 12:15 PM
If Kadri keeps doing what he's been doing (i.e. Spezza-with-balls), then sure it is.Let's not go comparing Kadri to a career PPG centre just yet, mkay?

JohnnyHolmes
09-24-2013, 12:16 PM
Oh I forgot about JVR.

He's decent.

JohnnyHolmes
09-24-2013, 12:18 PM
This should be the year for Kadri to have a sophomore slump.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Mr-Burns-Saying-Excellent.gif

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 12:19 PM
um, Bolland's playing behind Bozak this year, fyi.

Bolland is twice the hockey player than Bozak is....i could care less if Tyler is slightly more gifted offensively....he literally offers nothing else of value.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 12:20 PM
This should be the year for Kadri to have a sophomore slump.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Mr-Burns-Saying-Excellent.gif

It's Kadri's 3rd year.

Last year was his sophomore year.

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 12:21 PM
It's Kadri's 3rd year.

hard to tell with how many times he wasn't ready defensively and sent back down.

TheMightyIgor
09-24-2013, 12:21 PM
Some people need to learn how to ****ing read as well. I clearly stated that I believe that the Leafs are entering into the same type of period that young perennial contending teams like the Hawks & Kings were in, immediately before they entered into that stage. Patrick Sharp didn't have "multiple 30 goal seasons" at that point in time...infact, he had zero. He was a 25 yr old coming off of his first 30 goal season when Chicago made their first deep playoff run with that group.

Nobody is trying to compare the current Leafs to the product of those successful Cup runs, but what they were before that.

Maybe you should stop taking reading comprehension lessons from koreaboy. This is the 2013-14 season predictions thread. Not about what you think the Leafs will be like years from now.

UWHabs
09-24-2013, 12:25 PM
Back to bold predictions:
-Habs will finish ahead of the Leafs.
-Price will put up a better save pct than either Leafs goalie.
-Bernier will outplay Reimer (split will be ~45/35 for GP)
-Lupul will get hurt and miss 15+ games
-Kessel will not score 40, but we will still keep arguing whether he is a "40-goal scorer". He'll also be under 1 PPG (78 points in 81 games), and re-sign for around 8.5M per season sometime in January.
-Kadri will get ~60 points
-Rielly will do one of the following: play less than 9 games and be returned to junior, or make the team, play really well for the first half, but then suck as the season wears on
-Gardiner will put up a good but not great season (40ish points)
-PK will put up a great but not excellent season (high 50s for points)
-Despite what you might think of all my dire predictions above, the Leafs will still end up in the top half of the league for offense
-The Habs will have nobody who does excellent, but have a lot of depth in scoring. We'll have more 30+ point players than Toronto.
-Phaneuf will make Team Canada, and Ottawa fans will complain about him making the team ahead of Methot. He'll also make a boneheaded play in the Olympics costing Canada a goal somewhere, but will otherwise do quite well in the tournament. Haters will harp on that play for a long time.
-Nobody will still care about Ottawa after the season.

Volcanologist
09-24-2013, 12:31 PM
3 good players then a dung heap.

That's your team.

Sounds more like the sens.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 12:37 PM
Maybe you should stop taking reading comprehension lessons from koreaboy. This is the 2013-14 season predictions thread. Not about what you think the Leafs will be like years from now.

KB isn't right often, but he's got you nailed down nicely. You're a moron.

I've said clearly, very clearly, that I believe this season is the year the Leafs enter the phase that teams like the Hawks were in....before the won their cups. You'll notice that my prediction for the season is 99 points and an ECF appearance...which is, oddly enough really similar to what the Hawks did the year before they won the cup (104 points and an WCF appearance)

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 12:37 PM
hard to tell with how many times he wasn't ready defensively and sent back down.

Nice try, Ron Wilson.

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:39 PM
Let's not go comparing Kadri to a career PPG centre just yet, mkay?

http://attackingzone.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/kadri-hit.jpg?w=610&h=335

#SpezzaWithBalls

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:40 PM
Bolland is twice the hockey player than Bozak is....i could care less if Tyler is slightly more gifted offensively....he literally offers nothing else of value.

Bozak scores more than Bolland, hits more, wins more faceoffs, and plays more time on a better PK.

zeke
09-24-2013, 12:41 PM
why is everyone listing "Bernier will outplay Reimer" as a "bold prediction"?

that's what the entire hockey world expects. that's not bold.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 12:41 PM
-Nobody will still care about Ottawa after the season.

Bold.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 12:54 PM
The Devils challenge for a playoff spot.

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 12:57 PM
Neither Michel Therrien nor Paul MacLean offer the hockey world any funny lines at pressers

CH1
09-24-2013, 01:04 PM
So do the Habs.

Duh. So do many other NHL teams but I thought we were discussing the Leafs here.

But if you wanna compare, I'm comfortable looking ahead to next season with Galchenyuk-Pleks-Eller and would not trade them for Kadri-Bozak-Bolland.

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 01:05 PM
the Vancouver Canucks miss the playoffs.

JohnnyHolmes
09-24-2013, 01:05 PM
http://attackingzone.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/kadri-hit.jpg?w=610&h=335

#SpezzaWithBalls

Kadri hits a guy that's even smaller than he is...

The league is on notice.

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 01:05 PM
Matt Stajan gets 60 points.

zeke
09-24-2013, 01:26 PM
Kadri hits a guy that's even smaller than he is...

The league is on notice.

Emelin: 6'3", 225lbs

#SpezzaWithBalls

worm
09-24-2013, 01:44 PM
Emelin: 6'3", 225lbs

#SpezzaWithBalls

nobody on the habs is over 6 feet

#truther

leafman101
09-24-2013, 02:01 PM
Emelin: 6'3", 225lbs

#SpezzaWithBalls

...and a back.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:19 PM
Phaneuf is better than Seabrook, comparable to Keith.

Only in zeke's mind. Oh wait, you are zeke. Change your avatar back.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:22 PM
Habs fans talking about the Leafs missing players from "The Chicago Model" is pretty rich actually.

Why's that? Do you think that I believe the Habs aren't missing pieces because the Leafs are? The Habs are missing a Toews, Kane and Seabrook.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 02:24 PM
Seabrook is suppose to be this super awesome shutdown dman and his own coach didn't use him that way. He used Hjalmarsson and Oduya as the shutdown pair against the opposing teams top lines.

Phaneuf is miles better than Seabrook.

leafman101
09-24-2013, 02:25 PM
The Leafs aren't really following the Hawks model. They just happen to have a lot of talent too.

zeke
09-24-2013, 02:27 PM
yep, Hjalmarsson-Oduya was the Hawks shutdown pair to win the cup this year.

Seabrook was actually the #3 dman in the playoffs this year, barely ahead of Oduya in the #4 spot.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:27 PM
Never said they were, just chose the most recent two time cup winner.

Phaneuf is too dumb to win a cup. I still take Seabrook.

I also like Hjarlmarsson.

zeke
09-24-2013, 02:28 PM
Never said they were, just chose the most recent two time cup winner.

Phaneuf is too dumb to win a cup. I still take Seabrook.

I also like Hjarlarsson.

numbers > habs fans' personal taste

corksens
09-24-2013, 02:30 PM
Van Reimsdyk would have been the top scorer on the Sens last year.Yes, due to significant injuries to three better players.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 02:31 PM
I can't think of one thing Seabrook does better than Phaneuf, other than maybe block shots.

Phaneuf scores more goals, produces more points, plays more minutes, hits more, faces stronger comp.

Seabrook is a #2/#3 dman and should not be compared with true #1 dmen.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:31 PM
numbers > habs fans' personal taste

Personal taste > no cups

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:32 PM
I can't think of one thing Seabrook does better than Phaneuf, other than maybe block shots.

Phaneuf scores more goals, produces more points, plays more minutes, hits more, faces stronger comp.

Seabrook is a #2/#3 dman and should not be compared with true #1 dmen.

Except Phaneuf isn't a true #1 D man. He's in that faux category.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:33 PM
The Leafs aren't really following the Hawks model. They just happen to have a lot of talent too.

I almost feel bad that the resident mouth breathers took my very broad comparison of the Leafs to the Hawks and Kings, and made it very specific.

and yeah, we can't follow the Hawks "model", we weren't nearly as bad as they were and weren't able to pile up top 5 picks. Chicago got very lucky with a few of their non 1sts, and blew a bunch of their high 1sts (Skille, Barker, Beach, Yakubov).

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:33 PM
Yes, due to significant injuries to three better players.

Which Senators are going to post more points than JVR this season? I can think of only two. Maybe three if Karlsson stays healthy.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:34 PM
Except Phaneuf isn't a true #1 D man. He's in that faux category.

If Phaneuf isn't a true #1 defender, then there are about 5 of them in the entire league.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:34 PM
I almost feel bad that the resident mouth breathers took my very broad comparison of the Leafs to the Hawks and Kings, and made it very specific.

and yeah, we can't follow the Hawks "model", we weren't nearly as bad as they were and weren't able to pile up top 5 picks. Chicago got very lucky with a few of their non 1sts, and blew a bunch of their high 1sts (Skille, Barker, Beach, Yakubov).

Rather breathe through my mouth than my ass, like you bubba.

:leaving:

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:34 PM
If Phaneuf isn't a true #1 defender, then there are about 5 of them in the entire league.

6 including Subban.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 02:35 PM
Except Phaneuf isn't a true #1 D man. He's in that faux category.

It's just a big fluke that he's among the best in all the major statistical categories.

Habs fans know the real truth.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:35 PM
Rather breathe through my mouth than my ass, like you bubba.

:leaving:

Weak sauce old man, weak sauce.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:36 PM
You guys are so ****ing easy lately. So not in midseason form.

Keith > Phaneuf > Seabrook.

Now that Kessel guy, he's second line talent at best.

corksens
09-24-2013, 02:36 PM
Which Senators are going to post more points than JVR this season? I can think of only two. Maybe three if Karlsson stays healthy.Spezza, Ryan, Karlsson.

Michalek is likely to as well.

"If Karlsson stays healthy" ??? haha. Hopefully his AC won't be cut by a skate again. It's not like the guy is injury prone.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:36 PM
6 including Subban.


Subban doesn't PK (ironically enough)...how exactly is he a true #1 defender?

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:36 PM
Weak sauce old man, weak sauce.

Is that what's causing your anal seepage?

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:37 PM
Spezza, Ryan, Karlsson.

Michalek is likely to as well.

The only thing Michalek is likely to do, is miss 15-20 games of the season with a knee sprain.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:37 PM
Subban doesn't PK (ironically enough)...how exactly is he a true #1 defender?

1) He does PK. He doesn't do it to prevent injury from it because he is far too important to the offense. You make it sound like he can't PK, he can. Therrien chooses to not use him that way.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:38 PM
Is that what's causing your anal seepage?


Stop flirting with me, it's making me uncomfortable. You're not my type.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 02:39 PM
Yes, due to significant injuries to three better players.

Okay, he would have been 3rd behind Karlsson and Spezza if they were healthy.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:39 PM
Man, that sauce is also causing delusions?

Seek medical assistance. You have that nifty and awesome government thingy up there. Use it.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 02:39 PM
Why's that? Do you think that I believe the Habs aren't missing pieces because the Leafs are? The Habs are missing a Toews, Kane and Seabrook.

Habs fans shouldn't be bashing the Leafs for missing elite pieces. They don't have any elite forwards right now.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:39 PM
1) He does PK. He doesn't do it to prevent injury from it because he is far too important to the offense. You make it sound like he can't PK, he can. Therrien chooses to not use him that way.

https://archive.foolzashit.com/foolfuuka/boards/o/image/1370/40/1370406529709.jpg

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:40 PM
Spezza, Ryan, Karlsson.

Michalek is likely to as well.

"If Karlsson stays healthy" ??? haha. Hopefully his AC won't be cut by a skate again. It's not like the guy is injury prone.

So injury prone. Gets a love tap and practically snaps his tendon. I'm expecting an ACL sprain next time someone passes him with a stiff breeze.

zeke
09-24-2013, 02:41 PM
there's about 15 true #1 dmen in the league. Guys who can play a legit quality 25+mpg in all situations....or if they can't play legit top minutes in all situations, they're dominant enough in one or two areas to make up for their weak spots.

in alphabetical order, because they're too close to make any real order:

Bouwmeester
Chara
Doughty
Ekman-Larsson
Hamhuis
Karlsson
Keith
Kronwall
Letang
McDonagh
Phaneuf
Pietrangelo
Subban
Suter
Weber

though even then that's being generous to a guy like Subban, who's never actually done that before.

the faux #1s are the guys a notch below who can't play top minutes in all situations, and aren't dominant enough in any specific area to make up for their weak spots.....guys like Campbell, Yandle, Boyle, Timonen, Staal, Girardi, Edler, Seabrook, etc.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:41 PM
Man, that sauce is also causing delusions?

Seek medical assistance. You have that nifty and awesome government thingy up there. Use it.

You're the one who can't stop talking about things going in and out of my ass.

When was the last time you had a talk with a therapist?

http://ponderthat.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Sigmund-Freud-Ponder-That.jpg

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:42 PM
Habs fans shouldn't be bashing the Leafs for missing elite pieces. They don't have any elite forwards right now.

And yet they still scored more goals than the super-elite Leafs last season.

But, as I said, the two statements are mutually exclusive. Never implied the Habs didn't need pieces as well, you inferred it through insecurity.

zeke
09-24-2013, 02:43 PM
Habs fans shouldn't be bashing the Leafs for missing elite pieces. They don't have any elite forwards right now.

Patches is close. That guy is seriously underrated.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:43 PM
You're the one who can't stop talking about things going in and out of my ass.

When was the last time you had a talk with a therapist?


This morning. A buddy of mine is a shrink. We talked for a good two minutes. I feel refreshed.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:45 PM
there's about 15 true #1 dmen in the league. Guys who can play a legit quality 25+mpg in all situations....or if they can't play legit top minutes in all situations, they're dominant enough in one or two areas to make up for their weak spots.

in alphabetical order, because they're too close to make any real order:

Bouwmeester
Chara
Doughty
Ekman-Larsson
Hamhuis
Karlsson
Keith
Kronwall
Letang
McDonagh
Phaneuf
Pietrangelo
Subban
Suter
Weber

though even then that's being generous to a guy like Subban, who's never actually done that before.

the faux #1s are the guys a notch below who can't play top minutes in all situations, and aren't dominant enough in any specific area to make up for their weak spots.....guys like Campbell, Yandle, Boyle, Timonen, Staal, Girardi, Edler, Seabrook, etc.

You forgot Markov, who is still stellar and plays in every situation. Not surprised though.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 02:47 PM
And yet they still scored more goals than the super-elite Leafs last season.

But, as I said, the two statements are mutually exclusive. Never implied the Habs didn't need pieces as well, you inferred it through insecurity.

So do numbers/productions matter then or not?

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:50 PM
In what? You got all bent out of shape in assuming I was implying the Habs were as good as Chicago, which is absolutely preposterous and pretty funny that you decided to take that route.

corksens
09-24-2013, 02:50 PM
Okay, he would have been 3rd behind Karlsson and Spezza if they were healthy.And Michalek, if he wasn't injured.

And now we have Ryan.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:51 PM
And yet they still scored more goals than the super-elite Leafs last season.

Scored more goal, singular. 146 to 145.

Toronto out scored Montreal 5 on 5 105 to 98. Montreal's smurfs did lead the league in falling over and having penalties called on their behalf (but..but..NHL conspiracy against the Habs??!?!) with 203 PP's, which lead to them outscoring the Leafs on the PP though, yes.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
So what you're saying is they still scored more goals without all that purported elite talent?

LeafOfFaith
09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
Here's a bold one - Montreal sucks ass this year.

Price was shattered near the end of the year and the playoffs.

PK doesn't do as well, Markov gets injured early, the rest of the D is meh at best, and Briere, Gionta and Bourque clog up the forward arteries in a bad way.

I think they'll struggle to make the playoffs. And I'd put it at 60% that they miss.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
And Michalek, if he wasn't injured.

Which, apparently happens with the frequency of a leap year.


And now we have Ryan.

You didn't like what the number had to say about that matchup over the last 2 seasons either.

zeke
09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
You forgot Markov, who is still stellar and plays in every situation. Not surprised though.

not really capable of playing the heavy minutes anymore, though he did have a nice comeback half-season last year, though faded badly towards the end of the year:

JAN: 6gms, 4gls, 8pts, -1, 24:51
FEB: 14gms, 1gls, 4pts, -1, 23:46
MAR: 14gms, 1gls, 11pts, +0, 25:37
APR: 14gms, 4gls, 7pts, -7, 22:43
PLYF: 5gms, 0gls, 1pts, -1, 23:54

Faux #1.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 02:54 PM
In what? You got all bent out of shape in assuming I was implying the Habs were as good as Chicago, which is absolutely preposterous and pretty funny that you decided to take that route.

Not sure where you got "bent out of shape". I suggested it's ironic that Habs fans would rush over and point out the Leafs lack elite pieces given their own team. Both teams have pretty good scoring depth and were only a goal apart last season.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:57 PM
not really capable of playing the heavy minutes anymore, though he did have a nice comeback half-season last year, though faded badly towards the end of the year:

JAN: 6gms, 4gls, 8pts, -1, 24:51
FEB: 14gms, 1gls, 4pts, -1, 23:46
MAR: 14gms, 1gls, 11pts, +0, 25:37
APR: 14gms, 4gls, 7pts, -7, 22:43
PLYF: 5gms, 0gls, 1pts, -1, 23:54

Faux #1.

Still scored the fourth most points... more than Phannyooof... and played 24:07 per game. Only 1:03 less than Phannyooof, :14 seconds less than McDonagh and Kronwall and more than Hamhuis.

Like you like to say zekey boy, the numbers don't lie. I love how you and Mindz like to try and break down numbers to try and diminish accomplishments.

It's so cute it's actually endearing.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 02:57 PM
So what you're saying is they still scored more goals without all that purported elite talent?


You keep using that word as if you don't realize that it's a plural. Scored one more goal than Toronto.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:58 PM
Not sure where you got "bent out of shape". I suggested it's ironic that Habs fans would rush over and point out the Leafs lack elite pieces given their own team. Both teams have pretty good scoring depth and were only a goal apart last season.

Rush over? Really? Not bent out of shape huh.

I merely said they were missing three pieces, I believe they are. I believe the Habs are as well. You choose to get defensive, it's your prerogative.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 02:59 PM
You keep using that word as if you don't realize that it's a plural. Scored one more goal than Toronto.

You keep missing the fact that a Leaf fan is claiming the Leafs have elite talent while the Habs do not yet the Leaf's elite talent scored less.

Interesting no?

#balancedattack

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 03:00 PM
And Michalek, if he wasn't injured.

And now we have Ryan.

12/13:
Van Reimsdyk: 55 point pace
Michalek: 50 point pace


1st in scoring, likely 3rd if everyone was healthy.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 03:02 PM
As an aside, I am amazed that OV ended with 32 goals after such a poor start.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-24-2013, 03:04 PM
The Habs have a very strong and balanced scoring team. They are a contender, at least in the regular season. If Price is actually good, they could be a cup contender. Although, I question whether they're tough enough to go 3/4 rounds in the playoffs.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 03:06 PM
You keep missing the fact that a Leaf fan is claiming the Leafs have elite talent while the Habs do not yet the Leaf's elite talent scored less.

Interesting no?

#balancedattack

Until you realize that one of our elite talents was out for most of the season, sure.

Leafs outscore the Habs this season...name your bet.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 03:09 PM
You keep missing the fact that a Leaf fan is claiming the Leafs have elite talent while the Habs do not yet the Leaf's elite talent scored less.

Interesting no?

#balancedattack

A Hab fan is suggesting the Leafs can't be a contender due to lack of elite talent. The Habs have less and scored the same amount of goals, so maybe elite names aren't the be all and end all to that. Do you understand where I'm going with this now?

And Phaneuf > Seabrook. We absolutely need a #1C and another top pairing defenseman though - I've said that all along.

Luckily we've got some guys internally I think have the potential to do that.

CH1
09-24-2013, 03:12 PM
Here's a bold one - Montreal sucks ass this year.

Price was shattered near the end of the year and the playoffs.

PK doesn't do as well, Markov gets injured early, the rest of the D is meh at best, and Briere, Gionta and Bourque clog up the forward arteries in a bad way.

I think they'll struggle to make the playoffs. And I'd put it at 60% that they miss.

Very possible. I see this as a transition season as the Habs need to rebuild their blueline (they have a lot of young ones to audition) while allowing some of their punks up front to blossom.

CH1
09-24-2013, 03:13 PM
A Hab fan is suggesting the Leafs can't be a contender due to lack of elite talent. The Habs have less and scored the same amount of goals, so maybe elite names aren't the be all and end all to that. Do you understand where I'm going with this now?

And Phaneuf > Seabrook. We absolutely need a #1C and another top pairing defenseman though - I've said that all along.

Luckily we've got some guys internally I think have the potential to do that.

So only fans of teams that have an abundance of elite talent can comment on the issue? I didn't know fans were responsible for their team's personnel moves.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 03:15 PM
So only fans of teams that have an abundance of elite talent can comment on the issue?

Anyone can comment on whatever they want. I just suggested it was a little ironic.

CH1
09-24-2013, 03:18 PM
Except it's not ironic...

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 03:20 PM
Oh brother...

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 03:29 PM
Except it's not ironic...

That fans of a team with little to no elite talent up front are pointing at "lack of elite talent" in the Leafs forward group as a reason the Leafs aren't a contender, while claiming from the other side of their mouths that Montreal is in fact, a contender, isn't at least mildly ironic?

Wayward DP
09-24-2013, 03:36 PM
Maybe we should define irony for him?

CH1
09-24-2013, 03:39 PM
Perhaps, I didn't read every single post but I think I started it when I said the Leafs could use more talent down the middle. I didn't know I had to also elaborate that many teams face the same problem, Habs included. We were talking Leafs, so I kept the other teams out of it. But just in case, Habsy pointed out the Habs also needed a deluxe centre. We couldn't be less ironic if we tried.

When I finally offered a comparison (I wouldn't make a trade involving Galchenyuk/Plekanec/Eller for Kadri/Bozak/Bolland) nobody commented on it.

CH1
09-24-2013, 03:40 PM
Maybe we should define irony for him?

I know how to use a dictionary, unlike some cats here who are only comfortable with calculators.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 03:52 PM
Perhaps, I didn't read every single post but I think I started it when I said the Leafs could use more talent down the middle. I didn't know I had to also elaborate that many teams face the same problem, Habs included. We were talking Leafs, so I kept the other teams out of it. But just in case, Habsy pointed out the Habs also needed a deluxe centre. We couldn't be less ironic if we tried.

When I finally offered a comparison (I wouldn't make a trade involving Galchenyuk/Plekanec/Eller for Kadri/Bozak/Bolland) nobody commented on it.

I think what we lack at center we make up for with great depth on wing. JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Clarkson, Kulemin and Raymond have all hit 20+ before. It's really only that #1C spot that we're lacking.

As for the D -I'm not concerned about that at all. I think one of Gardiner/Rielly will emerge in that role over the next two seasons.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 04:00 PM
Until you realize that one of our elite talents was out for most of the season, sure.

Leafs outscore the Habs this season...name your bet.

The $20 you owe me.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 04:01 PM
A Hab fan is suggesting the Leafs can't be a contender due to lack of elite talent. The Habs have less and scored the same amount of goals, so maybe elite names aren't the be all and end all to that. Do you understand where I'm going with this now?

And Phaneuf > Seabrook. We absolutely need a #1C and another top pairing defenseman though - I've said that all along.

Luckily we've got some guys internally I think have the potential to do that.

I'm sorry, please point to where I claimed this. Thanks.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 04:03 PM
That fans of a team with little to no elite talent up front are pointing at "lack of elite talent" in the Leafs forward group as a reason the Leafs aren't a contender, while claiming from the other side of their mouths that Montreal is in fact, a contender, isn't at least mildly ironic?

Except I never made any such implication. Simply compared the Leafs to the Hawks.

You guys keep throwing out strawmen.

corksens
09-24-2013, 04:13 PM
Which, apparently happens with the frequency of a leap year.



You didn't like what the number had to say about that matchup over the last 2 seasons either.You can shove your 2-year crutch...

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 04:15 PM
I'm sorry, please point to where I claimed this. Thanks.

... that you don't think the Leafs will be contenders? Uh, feel free to clarify if that's not true.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 04:17 PM
The $20 you owe me.

You mean the $20 I've now asked you 3 times for your details so I can pay you? That $20?

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 04:18 PM
You can shove your 2-year crutch...

Poor cranky corksens, doesn't like what recent history has to say about his new golden boy.

By the way, he hated his last coach that insisted he played in all 3 zones. Wonder how he's going to take to the 'Stache.

TheMightyIgor
09-24-2013, 04:21 PM
and yeah, we can't follow the Hawks "model", we weren't nearly as bad as they were and weren't able to pile up top 5 picks.

You could have except you traded them for your only elite player.

corksens
09-24-2013, 04:22 PM
Poor cranky corksens, doesn't like what recent history has to say about his new golden boy.

By the way, he hated his last coach that insisted he played in all 3 zones. Wonder how he's going to take to the 'Stache.Jeeze, for years we've heard about how good the Leafs players are - JUST LOOK AT THE 2-year SPLITS! - they say...

Perhaps there is alittle something more to looking at numbers than the past two years (one of which being a shortened season) has to offer?

Maybe...just maybe...the two-year split crutch you guys have used doesn't work.

MyNameIsJonas
09-24-2013, 04:24 PM
You mean the $20 I've now asked you 3 times for your details so I can pay you? That $20?

Seems like it would be easier if the loser just took his wife out to dinner.

corksens
09-24-2013, 04:31 PM
Seems like it would be easier if the loser just took his wife out to dinner.And keep the change.

worm
09-24-2013, 04:34 PM
Patches is close. That guy is seriously underrated.

He has looked great this year (preseason...I know I know).


And he cant be underrated because the media loves the habs :p

worm
09-24-2013, 04:37 PM
not really capable of playing the heavy minutes anymore, though he did have a nice comeback half-season last year, though faded badly towards the end of the year:

JAN: 6gms, 4gls, 8pts, -1, 24:51
FEB: 14gms, 1gls, 4pts, -1, 23:46
MAR: 14gms, 1gls, 11pts, +0, 25:37
APR: 14gms, 4gls, 7pts, -7, 22:43
PLYF: 5gms, 0gls, 1pts, -1, 23:54

Faux #1.

where is the fading?

He had a poor Feb.

I expect PK to play more of Markov's PK mins this year.

But Markov is still the habs best player...if he gets hurt again the habs are toast.

worm
09-24-2013, 04:39 PM
You keep using that word as if you don't realize that it's a plural. Scored one more goal than Toronto.

But 146 is more goals than 145.

worm
09-24-2013, 04:42 PM
The $20 you owe me.

This is about the 3rd or 4th time you have mentioned it.

LN would be proud.

Also this would explain your trolling the last few weeks.

TheMightyIgor
09-24-2013, 04:42 PM
But 146 is more goals than 145.

Do you really want to sink to his level and bicker over something as frivolous as grammar?

worm
09-24-2013, 04:43 PM
Except I never made any such implication. Simply compared the Leafs to the Hawks.

You guys keep throwing out strawmen.

This is what i mentioned the other day. Leaf fans are so defensive lately.

Even little slight against them is some huge slash to the ankle of a player involved with other players.

worm
09-24-2013, 04:43 PM
You mean the $20 I've now asked you 3 times for your details so I can pay you? That $20?

Hahaha.

worm
09-24-2013, 04:46 PM
Do you really want to sink to his level and bicker over something as frivolous as grammar?

I let it slide the first time.

I also had a 23 page debate about the meaning of literally.

So. Yes.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 04:53 PM
Jeeze, for years we've heard about how good the Leafs players are - JUST LOOK AT THE 2-year SPLITS! - they say...

Select Leaf players, yes. But we've also quite clearly shown over the years where the team's failings were. Poor goaltending and shit depth players. The Tim Brent's of the world soaking up top 9 minutes while elite centreman prospects wasted away in the AHL.


Perhaps there is alittle something more to looking at numbers than the past two years (one of which being a shortened season) has to offer?

It's a far more accurate predictive tool than anything else. Especially wishful thinking...it's way ****ing better than wishful thinking.


Maybe...just maybe...the two-year split crutch you guys have used doesn't work.

Or maybe you simply don't understand the arguments we were making for years. Funny that as soon as our goaltending didn't suck, neither did we anymore. Who could have predicted that? Oh right, we did.

corksens
09-24-2013, 04:58 PM
It's a far more accurate predictive tool than anything else. Especially wishful thinking...it's way ****ing better than wishful thinking.It's not wishful thinking to believe a 26 year old four time 30+ goal scorer is more than a 55 point player.

Basing everything on a rigid, two year split, is wearing blinders when you don't need to.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 05:42 PM
... that you don't think the Leafs will be contenders? Uh, feel free to clarify if that's not true.

Any team that makes the playoffs will be contenders, therefore the Leafs are contenders as I believe they will make the playoffs.

I do not think they are top 4 locks though.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 05:43 PM
You mean the $20 I've now asked you 3 times for your details so I can pay you? That $20?

Fine, I'll dig it up but you bet me that the Leafs would catch the Habs when they were on fire at the end of the season and the Habs were slumping.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 05:44 PM
It's not my fault Mindz has a shitty memory.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 05:47 PM
http://www.forumice.com/showthread.php?55397-Board-Bets&p=2042970&highlight=#post2042970

If you remember we were going to go double or nothing if the Habs met the Leafs in the playoffs.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 05:54 PM
This wast post 145 in that thread...


That's the way I read it as well...the original 20 dollar bet still stands, we've just decided to go double or nothing on a Leafs-Habs playoff matchup. If the matchup doesn't happen, then whoever loses the original bet, pays up the 20 he owes.

zeke
09-24-2013, 06:00 PM
When I finally offered a comparison (I wouldn't make a trade involving Galchenyuk/Plekanec/Eller for Kadri/Bozak/Bolland) nobody commented on it.

well, the Leafs trio was significantly better than the Habs trio last year, and unless you're forcasting a huge closing of a gap between your top guy and Kadri this year, then the leafs' trio will be better again this year.

of course, we don't even know if Galchenyuk is even a centre at this point, since so far he looks much more comfortable on the wing.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 06:01 PM
I let it slide the first time.

I also had a 23 page debate about the meaning of literally.

So. Yes.

Literally?

Montana
09-24-2013, 06:02 PM
Fine, I'll dig it up but you bet me that the Leafs would catch the Habs when they were on fire at the end of the season and the Habs were slumping.


He said he asked for your details.....so that he could pay you.

Montana
09-24-2013, 06:02 PM
It's not my fault Mindz has a shitty memory.


It is your fault that you have shitty reading comprehension, tho.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 06:02 PM
well, the Leafs trio was significantly better than the Habs trio last year, and unless you're forcasting a huge closing of a gap between your top guy and Kadri this year, then the leafs' trio will be better again this year.

of course, we don't even know if Galchenyuk is even a centre at this point, since so far he looks much more comfortable on the wing.

Yeah that's pissing me off. I know teams like to bring centers along slowly but he is so good down the middle. His deficiency is faceoffs.

Metalleaf
09-24-2013, 06:03 PM
It is your fault that you have shitty reading comprehension, tho.

You said what I was thinking.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 06:04 PM
It is your fault that you have shitty reading comprehension, tho.

Why would I expect a paypal of $20? I'd rather let it ride.

I am suffering from stupid though, been fighting a cold, I admit it.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 06:04 PM
Oh and welcome back Montana, I see you're as charming as ever.

Montana
09-24-2013, 06:05 PM
I am suffering from stupid though.....I admit it.


You're one of the rare few who are ever willing to admit it when it happens......*tips cap*

Habsy
09-24-2013, 06:06 PM
I've been way off lately. My Father died a few weeks ago, that is why I was gone for so long.

hockeylover
09-24-2013, 06:09 PM
Sorry to hear, Habsy. Lost mine 6 years ago. Sucks.

SundinsTooth
09-24-2013, 06:10 PM
Sorry to hear that Habsy....I lost mine at 18 years of age and it still sucks some 2 decades later.

And sorry to you as well, HL. Brutal. I have a good friend who's dad is terminal right now and it's just heartbreaking.

Metalleaf
09-24-2013, 06:10 PM
Sorry to hear, Habsy. Lost mine 6 years ago. Sucks.

I lost mine 2 years ago today...

Habsy
09-24-2013, 06:11 PM
Yeah, sucks the big one for sure. Lost him August 25th.

Montana
09-24-2013, 06:16 PM
I've been way off lately. My Father died a few weeks ago, that is why I was gone for so long.


Oddly enough one of the best life lessons I had was losing my dad at such a young age (10...crazy to realize I've now lived 2/3rd's of my life without him, actually)......helped me realize how insignificant all the other shit is that we waste time stressing over. Including his death.....cause shit just keeps going regardless of how much we bitch and moan, grieve, enjoy, etc....so it's in everyone's best interest to process and move on as quickly as possible, otherwise we're just wasting what precise little time we have left, moping around.

Hell, when people die now I almost feel it's disrespectful to their memory for me to let it negatively effect me for more than a couple days, as in most instances that's the absolute last thing that the deceased would ever want.

zeke
09-24-2013, 06:17 PM
Jeeze, for years we've heard about how good the Leafs players are - JUST LOOK AT THE 2-year SPLITS! - they say...

Perhaps there is alittle something more to looking at numbers than the past two years (one of which being a shortened season) has to offer?

Maybe...just maybe...the two-year split crutch you guys have used doesn't work.

the two year splits (and earlier the 3yr splits) have in fact told us precisely what the weaknesses of our team was. for a few years after Sundin left we had a complete absence of elite forward talent, even though depth talent was a big strength....and much to our chagrin, back then we (or at least me) decided we could ignore Save Percentage and just believe that raycroft and toskala were good goalies because experts said so. Stupid us. We've learned.

Over that time we were told that it wasn't our goalies' fault, but rather that our dmen sucked. So we traded away the McCabes, Kubinas, and Gills, only to see them keep on being good on other teams, and signed defensive stalwarts from other teams like Komisarek and Finger instead. Of course, those defensive stalwarts sucked bulls, the dmen we let go continued to be good, and our goalies left hockey after leaving us.

And then, when we finally started to add elite talent like Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, and Kadri to the mix, management decided that our goalies STILL weren't to blame, and what we needed was a truculent defensive bottom 6....which led to us sacrificing our biggest strength - scoring depth - and building third lines out of the likes of Brent, Sjostrom, Armstrong, Wallin, Primeau, Mayer.....which completely sunk our offense, without improving our defense, leading to us bottoming out as one of the very worst teams in the league.

But the numbers told us the truth all along, even if we decided to ignore the goalie numbers - we had a team deep in talent up front and on defense, but had a complete lack of goaltending and elite forward talent. Burke came along and did a great job addressing one of those weaknesses, but completely ****ed up the other...and what's worse, he destroyed strong points of the team like our excellent scoring depth in the process.

This team's got unproven question marks, but it's got a nice combo of elite and depth talent in all areas, that we haven't had in a long while.....and the numbers show the difference.

Habsy
09-24-2013, 06:22 PM
Oddly enough one of the best life lessons I had was losing my dad at such a young age (10...crazy to realize I've now lived 2/3rd's of my life without him, actually)......helped me realize how insignificant all the other shit is that we waste time stressing over. Including his death.....cause shit just keeps going regardless of how much we bitch and moan, grieve, enjoy, etc....so it's in everyone's best interest to process and move on as quickly as possible, otherwise we're just wasting what precise little time we have left, moping around.

Hell, when people die now I almost feel it's disrespectful to their memory for me to let it negatively effect me for more than a couple days, as in most instances that's the absolute last thing that the deceased would ever want.

He was a man amongst men and a better man than I. I will miss him greatly. I spoke to him daily without fail and I miss that greatly.

TheCountofMonteCristo
09-24-2013, 06:57 PM
I've been way off lately. My Father died a few weeks ago, that is why I was gone for so long.

damn sorry Habsy, I didn't know

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 07:49 PM
This wast post 145 in that thread...

Fair enough...then why do you keep bringing it up like I owe you 20?

Volcanologist
09-24-2013, 07:54 PM
He was a man amongst men and a better man than I. I will miss him greatly. I spoke to him daily without fail and I miss that greatly.

You are a lucky man to have a father like that. I'm sorry to hear of his passing.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 07:56 PM
It's not wishful thinking to believe a 26 year old four time 30+ goal scorer is more than a 55 point player.


He wouldn't be the first talented young player to not realize his potential. All I'm doing is showing how he's actually performed over the last 2 years, you just don't like how it looks. It doesn't suit your narrative.


Basing everything on a rigid, two year split, is wearing blinders when you don't need to.

Again, the 2 yr split is an excellent predictive tool. It's not like Bobby Ryan is 22 yrs old anymore and we can expect tremendous jumps in production based on development. Fwiw, I've never predicted Ryan finishing with 55 points this season, I've got him pegged in the low 60's. ~30 goals and ~30 assists...about the same as I have the bigger, younger JVR pegged at.

MindzEye
09-24-2013, 08:01 PM
Yeah, sorry to hear that Habsy, I'm 34 and still learning new lessons about how to be a good man from my father every day. Couldn't imagine losing him yet.

Killer93
09-24-2013, 08:03 PM
I've been way off lately. My Father died a few weeks ago, that is why I was gone for so long.

Sorry to hear my friend. On Sept 29th its the 10 year anniversary of my father's death; lost him when I was 15. My condolences to you and your family

Habsy
09-24-2013, 10:26 PM
Fair enough...then why do you keep bringing it up like I owe you 20?

Because you do. So double or nothing on points or goals scored?

CH1
09-24-2013, 11:29 PM
Yeah, sucks the big one for sure. Lost him August 25th.

I know the feeling. Said goodbye to my dad on August 17. I am grateful he lived a long life, mostly on his terms, until the end. Learned something from him even when he was on his deathbed.

Pronger84
09-25-2013, 02:12 AM
I lost mine 2 years ago today...

Time sure does fly.... your Dad was a great man.

SENSible
09-25-2013, 08:51 AM
My condolences Habsy.

corksens
09-25-2013, 10:00 AM
Sorry to everyone who has shared their loss.

Still fortunately have both my parents. When they get home from their cruise I'll give them both a big hug. Until my mum over-does it in return.

There is a reason we call her "Smother".

uncus
09-25-2013, 10:44 AM
Leafs squeak into the playoffs
Kessel gets traded for a kings ransom
Lupul remains high maintenance but gets 30 goals
Clarkson gets 20 goals and 150 pims and is a plus.
Gardiner really comes into his own and gets raves from all
Rielly doesn't even get 9 games in the regular season before being sent back.
Ranger returns to a top 4 dman.
Franson gets traded to Edm.
Kadri leads the leafs in scoring.
Phaneuf doesn't make team Canada and asks for ransom in contract talks.
Bernier become more than leaf management cold ask ...... Riemer becomes a hot commodity next year.
Ottawa wins the regular season division crown but lose to the leafs in the first round.
JVR has a solid 30 goal season.

hockeylover
09-25-2013, 10:52 AM
too many feels in this thread.

blkngldbabe
09-25-2013, 11:21 AM
Sorry for your loss.

Wayward DP
09-25-2013, 11:23 AM
Yeah, sorry to hear Habsy (and others). Don't want to think about what it would be like to deal with a loss like that. Hope all is going as well as it can be.

BURG
09-25-2013, 11:27 AM
Sorry to hear that Habsy....I lost mine at 18 years of age and it still sucks some 2 decades later.

And sorry to you as well, HL. Brutal. I have a good friend who's dad is terminal right now and it's just heartbreaking.

Same here.

I echo all of the similar sentiments on this particular topic to anyone who has lost a parent.

Artnes
09-25-2013, 12:09 PM
:cheers2: Cheers to your pops Habsy. Sounded like a good man.

zeke
09-25-2013, 12:32 PM
yeah that sucks, Habsy. sorry to hear. losing loved ones is a bitch. I hope at least it wasn't too sudden a surprise.

Habsy
09-25-2013, 12:54 PM
He was 82 and was fighting Cancer. According to the smart doctors he should have died 3 years ago so he fought it well. Still stings like a bitch. Wanted to be laid to rest in Greece in the village he was born in so that is what we did.

Anyway, enough of the tear-jerking... Leafs suck.

PlayerToBeNamedLater
09-25-2013, 12:55 PM
RIP

MindzEye
09-25-2013, 01:12 PM
Because you do. So double or nothing on points or goals scored?


I'll take points

worm
09-25-2013, 01:22 PM
Wow. Cant believe how many of you have lost parents so early in life.