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trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 02:18 PM
Who I would take:

Forwards:
Stamkos - Crosby - St. Louis
Tavares - Toews - Duchene
Nash - Getzlaf - Perry
Neal - Thornton - Couture
Giroux

Just miss: Eberle, Lucic,

Defense:
Weber - Doughty
Pietrangelo - Keith
Seabrook - Phaneuf
Subban

Just miss: Boyle, Letang

Goaltender:
Price
Luango
Holtby


Comments:
I may have taken too many Centres but we just have so many good C it's hard to leave them off. It may be necessary to move someone that is listed as a C to the wing and replace them with someone else on the line who is also a natural C.

Defense was difficult: I wanted to take Boyle because of his experience and he is still playing well but simply couldn't justify taking him over either Phaneuf or Subban.

Who would you take?

MyNameIsJonas
12-16-2013, 02:22 PM
St Louis Crosby Stamkos
Tavares Toews Giroux
Stall Getzlaf Perry
Benn Bergeron Nash
Sharp

Weber Keith
Doughty Pietrangelo
Subban Seabrook
Bouwmeester

Price
Luongo
Crawford

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:32 PM
Stamkos is borderline superhuman, but I don't think he's back in time for it.

Staal - Crosby - St Louis
Benn - Getzlaf - Perry
Tavares - Toews - Giroux
Marleau - Thornton - Couture
Sharp/Seguin

Keith - Pietrangelo
Phaneuf -Subban
Jbo - Doughty
Weber/Seabrook

Price
Luongo
Holtby/Reimer

MyNameIsJonas
12-16-2013, 02:33 PM
i forgot about JayBo

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:35 PM
You also forgot about R/L, and that Crawford blows.

worm
12-16-2013, 02:38 PM
any chance St Louis makes the team?

i like trujaysfans forwards and ME's D

edit: lol

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:40 PM
any chance St Louis makes the team?

i like trujaysfans forwards and ME's D

edit: lol

It has St Louis on the wrong wing, a player who currently has a broken leg, and another guy who has been invisible since returning from a concussion.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 02:42 PM
I have him as a lock to make the team.

Need some experience in the lineup and he is still a top player in this league.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:45 PM
Well, he's never really been a top player in the league. He's been a ~65 point winger for most of his career....and since returning from the concussion, he's been turrible. We shouldn't want him anywhere near the team.

This group has tons of experience. At least half of the team will be returning from the 2010 Olympics. I'd take Jamie Benn over Rick Nash every day of the week, **** Nash's experience as a loser.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 02:46 PM
It has St Louis on the wrong wing, a player who currently has a broken leg, and another guy who has been invisible since returning from a concussion.

ah shit my bad with the wrong wing I will edit it now.

Obviously you take stamkos if he is healthy but if he isn't you will need to replace him I am just assuming he is healthy. If he isn't healthy I would probably move Neal up to Crosby's wing because of familiarity.

worm
12-16-2013, 02:47 PM
It has St Louis on the wrong wing, a player who currently has a broken leg, and another guy who has been invisible since returning from a concussion.

wrong wing...meh

but I like having stamkos healthy

worm
12-16-2013, 02:48 PM
I do not like Staal on the team. He will be there. But I do not like it.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:49 PM
wrong wing...meh

but I like having stamkos healthy

Tough to play out of position in a short tourney like this against top competition.

and yeah, I'd love to have Stamkos healthy. I'd also like to be able to sell organic unicorn meat by the pound to vegans, but you know. Hopefully I'm wrong and he's legitimately healthy and in form, but I have serious doubts.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 02:50 PM
Well, he's never really been a top player in the league. He's been a ~65 point winger for most of his career....and since returning from the concussion, he's been turrible. We shouldn't want him anywhere near the team.

This group has tons of experience. At least half of the team will be returning from the 2010 Olympics. I'd take Jamie Benn over Rick Nash every day of the week, **** Nash's experience as a loser.

Are you taking about St. Louis being a ~65 point player or Nash? I assume Nash but I just want to make sure.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:50 PM
I do not like Staal on the team. He will be there. But I do not like it.

Why? Lovely, big bodied player who is good at both ends of the ice and has whatever sort of championship experience you'd like to have.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 02:51 PM
Getzlaf-Crosby-Perry
Benn-Tavares-Seguin
Lupul-Toews-St.Louis
Staal-Bergeron-Giroux
Hall-Duchene
(Stamkos)

Keith-Doughty
JBo-Peitrangalo
Phaneuf-Subban
Weber

Luongo
Price
Reimer

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:51 PM
Are you taking about St. Louis being a ~65 point player or Nash? I assume Nash but I just want to make sure.

Nash of course. He's been passed on the Canadian depth chart by better left handed shots, or at least he should have. We're thin at left wing, but deep in left handed centremen.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:53 PM
Getzlaf-Crosby-Perry
Benn-Tavares-Seguin
Lupul-Toews-St.Louis
Bergeron-Toews-Giroux
Hall-Duchene
(Stamkos)

Keith-Doughty
JBo-Peitrangalo
Phaneuf-Subban
Weber

Luongo
Price
Reimer

I would have love for Lupul to make it, if he's healthy and in form he might be Canada's best left winger. But he hasn't been healthy this season and when he has been, he hasn't been in the form we've gotten used to over the past few seasons.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 02:54 PM
He has no chance of actually making it, but a healthy Lupul is one of Canada's best 12 forwards.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 02:54 PM
I could be convinced to take Benn over Nash, I think I overlooked Benn when making my picks. Nash last year played above ppg (42 pts in 41 games) and I really like what he did at the last olympics but with a 5 year age difference and the players being comparable it would be coachs preference.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 02:56 PM
Nash was really good at the last Olympics, and as a result he'll probably make it, and probably should. I put Lupul in over him on my roster. But realistically I'd slot him in Lupul's slot.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 02:57 PM
He has no chance of actually making it, but a healthy Lupul is one of Canada's best 12 forwards.


Agreed.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 02:58 PM
LM101: The only thing i will say is your 3rd D pair will be the most heavily scrutinized pairing in the history of hockey.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 03:00 PM
Hah. Yeah it would. those are the two most unnecessarily scrutinized players in the game. Its ridiculous that there is even talk of either of them not making the team. It would likely be their best pair.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 03:03 PM
They could be each be + players with a few goals and assists in the preliminary games and the media here would still be saying that it is "the worst defense in the history of Canadian international hockey" because those two are starting. The really sad part is most people would believe it.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 03:04 PM
I could be convinced to take Benn over Nash, I think I overlooked Benn when making my picks. Nash last year played above ppg (42 pts in 41 games) and I really like what he did at the last olympics but with a 5 year age difference and the players being comparable it would be coachs preference.

42 points in 44 games, not 41.

But even then, since that happened he's been concussed and put up an invisible (based on the noises coming out of New York these days) 12 points in 17 games. I'll take current form over experience if we're left to decide between two similar players. Jamie Benn is in great form and does a lot of little things you want from depth forwards, even in elite best on best tourneys.

He hits (58 in 31 games, to Nash's 2 in 17 games). He blocks shots (28 in 31 games to Nash's 11 in 17), he's very solid in his own zone (which has always been the thing about Nash, dude can handle the defensive duties while bringing a high skill element when he wants to).

Basically Benn does everything Nash ever did and is 5 years younger with an obvious future with hockey canada where this would probably be Nash's last best on best tourney for Canada one way or the other.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 03:05 PM
Hah. Yeah it would. those are the two most unnecessarily scrutinized players in the game. Its ridiculous that there is even talk of either of them not making the team. It would likely be their best pair.

Yeah, I've got them as our 2nd pairing behind Keith & AP, but it could easily turn into our best pairing with Dion doing the heavy defensive lifting and PK being a bit more free to create some offence and rush the puck.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 03:08 PM
Like i said i think i overlooked Benn and i may have rose colored glasses on for Nash because of his last Olympic performance where I thought he was one of our best players. Benn is probably better suited for the 3rd line role he would likely get on team Canada.

Montana
12-16-2013, 03:20 PM
Forwards:

Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot


Defense:

Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot
Methot

Goaltender:

Methot
Methot
Bernier

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 03:35 PM
Forwards:

Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot


Defense:

Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot
Methot

Goaltender:

Methot
Methot
Bernier



I agree with everything except for Bernier.... Methot would be a much better 3rd Goaltender

worm
12-16-2013, 03:44 PM
Tough to play out of position in a short tourney like this against top competition.

and yeah, I'd love to have Stamkos healthy. I'd also like to be able to sell organic unicorn meat by the pound to vegans, but you know. Hopefully I'm wrong and he's legitimately healthy and in form, but I have serious doubts.

Marty was more of a meh (I dont know what side of the ice the wingers play...I voted twice for Ovy).

Until Stamkos is officially out I havn't lost hope!

as for Staal... he is kinda like Nash. 70 point player but big.

worm
12-16-2013, 03:46 PM
Forwards:

Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot-Methot
Methot


Defense:

Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot
Methot-Methot
Methot

Goaltender:

Methot
Methot
Bernier



Goaltending looks weak.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 03:48 PM
Nah, Staal is a 70-80 point centre, Nash is a 60-65 point winger

worm
12-16-2013, 03:50 PM
Is Taylor Hall really the only PPG left winger?

worm
12-16-2013, 03:52 PM
Looks like Perry is the only PPG right winger.

5 PPG centres.

Oh and Bergeron only has 17 points...why is this guy considered a lock by some? Faceoffs?

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 03:56 PM
Looks like Perry is the only PPG right winger.

5 PPG centres.

Oh and Bergeron only has 17 points...why is this guy considered a lock by some? Faceoffs?

I have left him off my squad and never even considered him as an option. The guy has gone from most underrated player in the league to by far the most overrated player in the league. Not a chance: Crosby, toews, getzlaf, tavares, stamkos(if healthy), Thornton etc should get bumped for this guy. We are team CANADA not team Finland or Switzerland we should not take players to play roles just take the best players possible and have great players do what they do best.

Habspatrol
12-16-2013, 04:00 PM
Forwards:
Neal - Crosby - Tavares
St.Louis - Stamkos - Hall
Giroux - Getzlaf - Perry
Toews - Thornton - Couture
Kunitz/Benn/Eberle

Defense:
Weber - Doughty
Subban - Keith
Pietrangelo - Bouwmeester
Phaneuf/Letang

Goaltender:
Price
Luongo
Holtby/Smith

leafman101
12-16-2013, 04:01 PM
He's a good player. You can put him on the ice at anytime, in any situation and he'll give you good minutes and be really hard to play against. The guy has won everything. WJ Gold, world Championship Gold, Spengler Cup, Olympic Gold, Stanley Cup. Just because he isn't one of the best offensive players doesn't mean he isn't one of the best players. And this isn't a guy with no skill either. He scored 70 points in the NHL.

Pretty sure a guy like that has a place on any team. Mike Richards too.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 04:03 PM
Olympic was won in spite of him not because of him, also I could have won the World Jrs if they decided to place me on that team

leafman101
12-16-2013, 04:03 PM
But that's the point. He hasn't just won one thing. He has won everything.

He's a really good hockey player. He's not Kris Draper or Rob Zamuner.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 04:06 PM
He may be a good hockey player but he isn't good enough for team CANADA. He doesn't deserve a C spot ahead of any of our other players and playing him out of position diminishes his value.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 04:11 PM
I think he is good enough for team Canada. Just going strictly based on offensive statistics maybe not. But he brings more to the table than that. And lots of the offensive guys don't (e.g Nash, Staal, Marleau, Carter).

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 04:14 PM
So out of Getzlaf, Toews, Thornton... who do you replace or move for him?

leafman101
12-16-2013, 04:17 PM
I honestly don't think Thornton should play center on the big ice. He's not a good enough skater to anymore. I'm not sure I'd even take him. But with Crosby and Tavares all those guys can't play center anway.

In my roster I had Crosby-Tavares-Toews-Bergeron with Getzlaf, Seguin, Staal, Giroux and Duchene moved to the wing.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 04:22 PM
I feel you need to keep Getzlaf in the middle with Perry on the wing. Thornton is still a very good player and with the chemistry he would have with Couture I would prefer him over Bergeron

This is a good discussion though but i don't think my mind will change with regards to Bergeron, I just don't feel he is good enough.

zeke
12-16-2013, 04:26 PM
Forwards via 3yr PPG:

Neal 1.01 - Crosby 1.51 - Giroux 1.05
Stamkos 1.20 - Tavares 1.01 - St.Louis 1.04
Hall 0.98 - Spezza 0.98 - Lupul 0.97
Toews 0.96 - Getzlaf 0.92 - Staal 0.92
(Kunitz 0.89 - Thornton 0.93 - Sharp 0.88)
(Benn 0.87 - Ribeiro 0.90 - Eberle 0.88)
(Moulson 0.84 - Couture 0.81 - Perry 0.83)

Forwards via 2yr PPG:

Neal 1.00 - Crosby 1.46 - Kunitz 1.04
Hall 1.07 - Stamkos 1.23 - St.Louis 1.12
Tavares 1.02 - Getzlaf 1.16 - Perry 0.91
Giroux 0.90 - Toews 0.96 - Staal 0.99
(Lupul 0.90 - Thornton 0.93 - Ribeiro 0.94)
(Nash 0.89 - Spezza 0.87 - Duchene 0.89)
(Ladd 0.83 - Kadri 0.85 - Benn 0.85)

Forwards via 1yr PPG:

Neal 1.25 - Crosby 1.35 - Stamkos 1.35
Seguin 1.07 - Getzlaf 1.22 - Perry 1.03
Hall 1.00 - Tavares 1.09 - Kunitz 0.97
Marleau 0.97 - Thornton 1.06 - St.Louis 0.94
(Skinner 0.91 - Toews 0.89 - Sharp 0.92)
(Benn 0.90 - Couture 0.88 - Little 0.88)
(Penner 0.86 - Duchene 0.86 - Perron 0.87)

leafman101
12-16-2013, 04:28 PM
I'm torn on Thornton. The big ice is a positive and negative for him. That extra room can be lethal for a playmaker like that. But because of his skating it could also leave him behind the play. And he has never really been able to step up at the Olympics and be a key guy offensively. He has always had to buy in to a lesser role.

Who would you rather have a 35 year old on the downside in that role, or a guy who still in his prime and can make use of that big ice with their legs. I just think for the role he'll be used in other guys could have a bigger impact than Thornton (Bergeron, Hall, Seguin, Duchene, Couture, Benn etc.)

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 04:32 PM
Staal and Marleau are excellent defensively. But frankly, with 2 way centres like Crosby and Toews around, why bring a guy that doesn't bring high level offence?

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 04:36 PM
Duchene, Couture maybe but at some point i want that Vet in the lineup. I have Giroux as my 13th forward so if necessary we could make the switch if Thornton is getting beat badly becasue of speed(I don't think he will). I have Thornton - Couture as my 4th line but those 2 could always flip in the defensive zone or in general.

Thornton playing poorly>Bergeron

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 04:38 PM
Staal and Marleau are excellent defensively. But frankly, with 2 way centres like Crosby and Toews around, why bring a guy that doesn't bring high level offence?

Exactly! We may get a slight improvement from a defensive point by bringing him along but we get a significant step down in offensive production.

We could be looking at saving 1 or 2 goals by sacrificing 4 or 5

leafman101
12-16-2013, 04:41 PM
But the 3rd/4th lines don't score in these tournaments. You are getting guys to buy into roles. The question is would you rather someone change their game to play a role over a guy who is one of the best in hockey at that role.

This isn't selecting an all star team to play in an all star game. And frankly Bergeron is just a better hockey player than some guys who outscore him anyway. Bergeron is better than Marleau and Nash IMO.

Who would you rather want on the Leafs Patrice Bergeron or Patrick Marleau? Its not really close.

IMO Bergeron is one of the 14 best forwards from Canada. Period.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 04:46 PM
When asking who i would rather have on the leafs I take into consideration age, contract etc but I do not when looking at a short tournament.

If you asked me would i rather have on the leafs Thornton or Bergeron for the rest of this season only and for free I would take Thornton.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 04:55 PM
Leafman101's top 25 Canadian Forwards (ppg last 3 years):

Locks
1. Crosby - 1.51
2. Stamkos - 1.20
3. Tavares - 1.01
4. Toews - 0.96
5. S. Louis - 1.04
6. Giroux - 1.05
7. Getzlaf - 0.92
8. Staal - 0.92
9. Hall - 0.98
10. Perry - 0.83

Bubble
11. Benn - 0.87
12. Seguin - 0.82
13. Thornton - 0.93
14. Bergeron -0.72
15. Lupul - 0.97
16. Duchene - 0.71
17. Couture - 0.81
18. Spezza - 0.99
19. Eberle - 0.88
20. Neal - 1.01
21. Nash -0.79
22. Marleau - 0.78
23. Ribeiro - 0.90
24. Sharp - 0.88
25. Moulson - 0.84

Goldust
12-16-2013, 05:45 PM
I have left him off my squad and never even considered him as an option. The guy has gone from most underrated player in the league to by far the most overrated player in the league. Not a chance: Crosby, toews, getzlaf, tavares, stamkos(if healthy), Thornton etc should get bumped for this guy.

Wrong. Bergeron is a lot better than Thornton on the big ice.



We are team CANADA not team Finland or Switzerland we should not take players to play roles just take the best players possible and have great players do what they do best.

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand hockey. Without an adequate defensive conscience Canada will lose. And Bergeron is one of Canada's "best" (not read "best offensive") 14 forwards anyway.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 05:59 PM
Thornton is better than Bergeron on thin ice, thick ice, little ice, big ice, black ice, smirnoff ice, vanilla ice, ice cube...

Wherever there is ice, Joe Thornton is superior to Patrice Bergeron.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 06:03 PM
As for "defensive conscience", Team Canada brings plenty without bringing sub par offensive players (for that level of play). Crosby, Toews, Staal, Benn, Nash, Getzlaf, Perry, Sharp, Couture, Giroux....all quality 2 way hockey players with strong defensive abilities.

This is the problem with Canadian hockey. We have too much talent. Only Hockey Canada has the ability to feel comfortable leaving world class players at home. Every other hockey federation is forced into bringing their best by necessity.

If Bergeron was scoring at his usual 65 point clip this season, I'd see a better argument for him being only a step behind offensively, but at his current form, he shouldn't be on Team Canada.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 06:05 PM
I have trolldust blocked was he referring to something i posted?

Goldust
12-16-2013, 06:05 PM
Thornton is better than Bergeron on thin ice, thick ice, little ice, big ice, black ice, smirnoff ice, vanilla ice, ice cube...

Wherever there is ice, Joe Thornton is superior to Patrice Bergeron.

Wrong. I watched them both at the Spengler Cup - Bergeron was much better. And he's not one dimensional like Thornton.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 06:07 PM
Wrong. I watched them both at the Spengler Cup - Bergeron was much better. And he's not one dimensional like Thornton.

Your comedy is getting much better.

MyNameIsJonas
12-16-2013, 06:14 PM
Somebody watches the Spengler Cup?

Also isn't it Spangler?...or the Who Cares, brought to you by Kellogs Cup?

Goldust
12-16-2013, 06:18 PM
As for "defensive conscience", Team Canada brings plenty without bringing sub par offensive players (for that level of play). Crosby, Toews, Staal, Benn, Nash, Getzlaf, Perry, Sharp, Couture, Giroux....all quality 2 way hockey players with strong defensive abilities.



As for "defensive conscience", Team Canada brings plenty without bringing sub par offensive players (for that level of play). Crosby, Toews, Staal, Benn, Nash, Getzlaf, Perry, Sharp, Couture, Giroux....all quality 2 way hockey players with strong defensive abilities.


On the flip side, one could say that Team Canada brings plenty offence to not have to settle for sub-par or just adequate defensive players. I'll be the first to admit that Bergeron hasn't looked himself offensively for most of the season. But when you have the opportunity to add the best defensive forward in the world to your roster, you do it.

da_next_kid
12-16-2013, 06:18 PM
It's Spengler Cup.

Goldust
12-16-2013, 06:20 PM
Somebody watches the Spengler Cup?

Also isn't it Spangler?...or the Who Cares, brought to you by Kellogs Cup?

Doesn't matter - they were both trying and Bergeron was better.

MyNameIsJonas
12-16-2013, 06:22 PM
I have Bergeron over Thornton.....but i'm sure i'm less homo about it.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 06:28 PM
ES points over the last 2 seasons:
Bergeron - 75 gp, 15 gls, 40 pts
Thornton - 81 gp, 7 gls, 42 pts

JaysCyYoung
12-16-2013, 06:29 PM
Justin Pogge is an upper-echelon NHL goaltender. He won a Spengler Cup himself.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 07:05 PM
On the flip side, one could say that Team Canada brings plenty offence to not have to settle for sub-par or just adequate defensive players. I'll be the first to admit that Bergeron hasn't looked himself offensively for most of the season. But when you have the opportunity to add the best defensive forward in the world to your roster, you do it.

When you have Sidney Crosby on your team, you don't need a match up centre. He is your match up centre. Let the opposition top line worry about taking the puck off of him.

The "best defensive forward in the world" only has value if he's producing offensively as well.

JaysCyYoung
12-16-2013, 07:06 PM
The "best defensive forward in the world" only has value if he's producing offensively as well.

I suspect Toews, already coming off of an Olympics in which he was named Best Tournament Forward, will have no issues producing offensively for us.

Of course, Datsyuk is a monster in his own right for the Russians.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 07:07 PM
I suspect Toews, already coming off of an Olympics in which he was named Best Tournament Forward, will have no issues producing offensively for us.

Of course, Datsyuk is a monster in his own right for the Russians.

of course, there's that. If we need to create a match up line, Toews is the obvious choice for it.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 07:09 PM
ES points over the last 2 seasons:
Bergeron - 75 gp, 15 gls, 40 pts
Thornton - 81 gp, 7 gls, 42 pts


Ooo, ooo! Now do this season's.

Why do people want to pretend that sucking this season, going into the tournament isn't important? It's a main reason why neither Nash or Bergeron should make the team. They just haven't been good this season by their standards (and I'd imagine, for similarish reasons. Nash due to concussion and Bergeron not having a good summer of training coming off of that massive car accident he suffered in the SC Finals)

IrishWolfman
12-16-2013, 07:23 PM
James Neal - Sydney Crosby - Corey Perry
Taylor Hall - Jonathan Toews - Matt Duchene
Martin St. Louis - John Tavares - Claude Giroux
Jamie Benn- Ryan Getzlaf - Logan Couture
Steven Stamkos


Shea Weber - Drew Doughty
Alex Pietrangelo - Duncan Keith
Brent Seabrook - Dion Phaneuf
PK Subban

Carey Price
Roberto Luongo
Mike Smith

Every time Canada goes international, they have a line whose job is to be physical, win wars along the wall and play defence. It's been that way since Bobby Clarke lined up between Paul Henderson and Ron Ellis. Last time, that line was Richards, Nash and Toews. This time, I'm going with Benn, Getzlaf and Couture.

Also, I have Stammer as the thirteenth forward just because I think he eats PP time but you don't want to over exert a guy coming back from a serious leg break. If he's healthy enough, he easily draws into the regular group.

MyNameIsJonas
12-16-2013, 07:28 PM
I have a problem with Hall being there....he's way too immature...

Habspatrol
12-16-2013, 07:30 PM
When you have Sidney Crosby on your team, you don't need a match up centre. He is your match up centre. Let the opposition top line worry about taking the puck off of him.

The "best defensive forward in the world" only has value if he's producing offensively as well.

I believe you touched on this earlier. Crosby is the best 2-way forward in the world... and Toews is also a better 2-way forward than Bergeron. Plus these guys put up a lot of points.

MyNameIsJonas
12-16-2013, 07:31 PM
its certainly a fair argument for not bringing a Bergeron.

TimHorton
12-16-2013, 07:31 PM
But could they do it in the Spengler Cup?

Habspatrol
12-16-2013, 07:31 PM
I have a problem with Hall being there....he's way too immature...

Hall would be excellent there imo.

Habspatrol
12-16-2013, 07:35 PM
James Neal - Sydney Crosby - Corey Perry
Taylor Hall - Jonathan Toews - Matt Duchene
Martin St. Louis - John Tavares - Claude Giroux
Jamie Benn- Ryan Getzlaf - Logan Couture
Steven Stamkos


Shea Weber - Drew Doughty
Alex Pietrangelo - Duncan Keith
Brent Seabrook - Dion Phaneuf
PK Subban

Carey Price
Roberto Luongo
Mike Smith

Every time Canada goes international, they have a line whose job is to be physical, win wars along the wall and play defence. It's been that way since Bobby Clarke lined up between Paul Henderson and Ron Ellis. Last time, that line was Richards, Nash and Toews. This time, I'm going with Benn, Getzlaf and Couture.

Also, I have Stammer as the thirteenth forward just because I think he eats PP time but you don't want to over exert a guy coming back from a serious leg break. If he's healthy enough, he easily draws into the regular group.

Do you honestly believe that Phaneuf would be a better option in the top 6 than Subban? Add the fact that it's on the big ice I just don't think Dion is as good an option.

And I'm far from a Phaneuf basher.

MyNameIsJonas
12-16-2013, 07:35 PM
Hall would be excellent there imo.

He's awful in his own end....by the same token i dont want a defensive specialist...i also dont want an offensive one who's a liability in his own end.

I'd much rather take Sharp over him, who's a solid 2 way player and can put up offense.

TimHorton
12-16-2013, 07:36 PM
I'd flip PK and Seabrook actually

IrishWolfman
12-16-2013, 07:42 PM
Do you honestly believe that Phaneuf would be a better option in the top 6 than Subban? Add the fact that it's on the big ice I just don't think Dion is as good an option.

And I'm far from a Phaneuf basher.

If you're asking me would I rather put Dion Phaneuf on the ice at even strength than PK? Yeah.

Would I rather have Dion Phaneuf killing penalties? Yeah.

Do I think Dion will put up more points than PK? No.

Do I think that, because he'll log so much powerplay time, that PK will end up with more TOI than Dion when all is said and done? Yes.

I'm not knocking either player.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 07:46 PM
Ooo, ooo! Now do this season's.

Why do people want to pretend that sucking this season, going into the tournament isn't important? It's a main reason why neither Nash or Bergeron should make the team. They just haven't been good this season by their standards (and I'd imagine, for similarish reasons. Nash due to concussion and Bergeron not having a good summer of training coming off of that massive car accident he suffered in the SC Finals)

I really don't think too much importance should be placed on a 30 game sample size to be honest. Especially when all these guys have track records. You can't ignore most of the information available.

The Team Canada guys have said the body of work is important, not just this season.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 07:49 PM
I believe you touched on this earlier. Crosby is the best 2-way forward in the world... and Toews is also a better 2-way forward than Bergeron. Plus these guys put up a lot of points.

Yeah, but those are only your top two centers. What about the other 12-13 forwards on the team. No one is saying to pick Bergeron over Crosby or Toews. He would be a 4th liner/press box guy on team Canada like he was last time.

We're talking about the bottom 2-3 guys here not the top.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 07:52 PM
I really don't think too much importance should be placed on a 30 game sample size to be honest. Especially when all these guys have track records. You can't ignore most of the information available.

The Team Canada guys have said the body of work is important, not just this season.

When a guy is diminished physically because of an injury he suffered, anything that happened before it is irrelevant. Those 30 games become all that's important when evaluating him for a short tournament. Bergeron simply hasn't been the same this season.

IrishWolfman
12-16-2013, 07:54 PM
I really don't think too much importance should be placed on a 30 game sample size to be honest. Especially when all these guys have track records. You can't ignore most of the information available.

The Team Canada guys have said the body of work is important, not just this season.

Last time Bergeron went, he spent most of the time with his ass glued to the pine. Don't take a forward unless they're going to play. He won't.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 07:55 PM
Yeah, but those are only your top two centers. What about the other 12-13 forwards on the team. No one is saying to pick Bergeron over Crosby or Toews. He would be a 4th liner/press box guy on team Canada like he was last time.

We're talking about the bottom 2-3 guys here not the top.

Decent chance Toews is the 3rd line C with either Tavares or Getzlaf taking the 2nd line role

leafman101
12-16-2013, 07:57 PM
Its interesting you say that. Bergeron had 6 points in his first 15 games. He has 11 points in his last 18, and 6 in his last 8, so it seems like he is regaining form after the injury.

Regardless Team Canada isn't picking their team based on 30 games, nor should they. That would just be silly. You know what all these players bring to the table.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 07:58 PM
Last time Bergeron went, he spent most of the time with his ass glued to the pine. Don't take a forward unless they're going to play. He won't.

There are going to be a handful of players that don't play very much. Thats how it works.

They aren't just going to take 10-11 guys because the rest won't play.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 08:16 PM
Its interesting you say that. Bergeron had 6 points in his first 15 games. He has 11 points in his last 18, and 6 in his last 8, so it seems like he is regaining form after the injury.

Regardless Team Canada isn't picking their team based on 30 games, nor should they. That would just be silly. You know what all these players bring to the table.

You absolutely do, and in Thornton they know that he brings elite offensive ability, above average defensive ability and pretty significant experience. Thornton is a guy that you can move up and down the lineup as necessary. At this level, Bergeron is a specialist.

zeke
12-16-2013, 08:18 PM
lots of openings.

Locks:

Stamkos - Crosby - St.Louis
XXXXXX - Getzlaf - Perry
Staal - Toews - XXXXXX
XXXXX - XXXXX - XXXXX

leafman101
12-16-2013, 08:41 PM
You absolutely do, and in Thornton they know that he brings elite offensive ability, above average defensive ability and pretty significant experience. Thornton is a guy that you can move up and down the lineup as necessary. At this level, Bergeron is a specialist.

You can take both of them.

Like I said earlier I'm concerned about Thornton's skating on the big ice. We aren't really lacking playmakers so I'd prefer guys who skate well i think.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 08:42 PM
lots of openings.

Locks:

Stamkos - Crosby - St.Louis
XXXXXX - Getzlaf - Perry
Staal - Toews - XXXXXX
XXXXX - XXXXX - XXXXX

Tavares is a lock.

MindzEye
12-16-2013, 08:43 PM
I don't see Bergeron being one of our top 12 forwards, Thornton belongs on the fringe of this team. Bergeron should be watching it from Canada.

zeke
12-16-2013, 08:51 PM
Tavares is a lock.

I dunno, he's not a fit on the wing, and not sure he fits as 4th line C, either.

He's very much in the Thornton/Spezza boat, IMO.

leafman101
12-16-2013, 09:02 PM
Maybe, but they are going to pick him.

JackBurton
12-16-2013, 09:10 PM
It's insane in 2013 to waste on spot on a guy because he's a good defensive forward. Bergeron is not good enough to make the team.

Jiminy Cricket 420
12-16-2013, 10:18 PM
stamkos-crosby- james neal
richards - nash - thorton
perry - getzlaf - kunitz
kane - towes -sharp = the hawks line
extras:st louis, staal, nash

pietrangelo-doughty
subban(dude is a beast ) -phaneuf
keith/weber
extras: green,seabrook

luango
price
mason

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 10:23 PM
stamkos-crosby- james neal
richards - nash - thorton
perry - getzlaf - kunitz
kane - towes -sharp = the hawks line
extras:st louis, staal, nash

pietrangelo-doughty
subban(dude is a beast ) -phaneuf
keith/weber
extras: green,seabrook

luango
price
mason

Which kane are you talking about? you know that the kane that plays on the hawks is 'Merican right? he loves to fight for change in the city of buffalo

Habspatrol
12-16-2013, 10:27 PM
Well the other Kane doesn't play for the Hawks.

Deckie007
12-16-2013, 10:32 PM
Maybe he meant this guy?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkZk6B3usYKlMeK6nB3vbM_dpJikhJd F_lmNtMQN0-TpvOCqaK

CTheBigPicture
12-16-2013, 10:37 PM
edit: wrong thread. sorry.

Habspatrol
12-16-2013, 10:42 PM
Maybe he meant this guy?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkZk6B3usYKlMeK6nB3vbM_dpJikhJd F_lmNtMQN0-TpvOCqaK

He's not Canadian either... he's from Hades.

trujaysfan
12-16-2013, 10:43 PM
Could put him in front of the net to body slam the opposing golatender? that's only a 2 min penalty right?

Deckie007
12-16-2013, 10:56 PM
He's not Canadian either... he's from Hades.

Two words for you: Dual Citizenship.

Habspatrol
12-16-2013, 10:59 PM
Daaaamn... I done been Brett Hulled.

MyNameIsJonas
12-17-2013, 12:37 AM
can Glen Jacobs handle the big ice?

Not sure on his skating....

I do like his chokeslams from hell to opposing forwards though.

MyNameIsJonas
12-17-2013, 12:38 AM
Plus...Kane can just as easy say HELL means Winnipeg.

trujaysfan
12-17-2013, 01:06 AM
Plus...Kane can just as easy say HELL means Winnipeg.

I would rather live in hell... The weather is better in hell.

Goldust
12-18-2013, 12:18 AM
According to Hockey Central, Canada has finalized its selections for the centre position. They are: Crosby, Toews, Tavares, Bergeron and Getzlaf.

Habspatrol
12-26-2013, 02:21 PM
Bergeron ahead of Getzlaf? Or is that supposed to be in no particular order? Not to mention you'd have to be an utter moron to take Bergeron over Giroux and Tavares.

MindzEye
12-26-2013, 04:01 PM
Hockey Canada....it wouldn't surprise me. They do this almost every tournament. In 98 is was Corson, Linden, Primeau, Zamuner (**** me, looking at this roster I'm not surprised we lost) In 2002 it was Mike Peca. 2006 it was Kris Draper, 2010 it was Bergeron, Morrow, Mike Richards.

We always take "gritty", "character", "defensive" players to these tournaments.

We've got the only hockey federation on the planet that has the option of over thinking their selections and still winning tournaments.

MindzEye
12-26-2013, 04:10 PM
1998 Team Canada

Sakic-Gretzky-Shanahan
Lindros-Yzerman-Fleury
Primeau-Brind'Amour-Nieuwendyk
Zamuner-Linden-Corson

With legitimately talented 2 way studs like Sakic, Yzerman, Nieuwendyk, Brind'Amour, and even Primeau if you want size...what the **** business does that 4th line have anywhere near team Canada?

Who did we leave at home? Ron Francis, Recchi, Pierre Turgeon....

We left 3 in prime HOF'ers at home so that we could bring Shayne Corson, Rob Zamuner, & Trever ****ing Linden.

Only Hockey Canada is capable of doing that.

mbow30
12-26-2013, 04:23 PM
recchi made the teams. but for a Defensive forward they could have gone with gilmour.

they ultimately didn't take the 3rd and 4th highest goal scoring canadians (at least based on end of year stats -- allison and whitney), or the 2nd and 3rd highest point getters (francis and allison), or the guys who ranked 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th in assists amongst canadians (francis, oates, allison and turgeon).

some colossal stupidity from bobby clarke

JaysCyYoung
12-26-2013, 06:14 PM
Gary Suter didn't do us any favours that time around by destroying Paul Kariya's career. He was never the same level of effectiveness after that cross-check and missed the 1998 Olympics.

He was legitimately becoming in the discussion for best forward in the league with Jagr when that incident happened.

zeke
12-26-2013, 07:25 PM
PPG this season

Neal 1.16 - Crosby 1.38 - Stamkos 1.35
Seguin 1.09 - Getzlaf 1.22 - Perry 1.05
Hall 1.03 - Thornton 1.08 - Duchene 1.03
Kunitz 1.00 - Tavares 1.03 - St.Louis 1.00

Marleau 0.95 - Giroux 0.89 - Sharp 0.92
Skinner 0.88 - Toews 0.87 - Benn 0.89
Doan 0.85 - Little 0.82 - Perron 0.83
Johansen 0.81 - Staal 0.81 - Eberle 0.79


Keith 0.85 - Seabrook 0.67
Giordano 0.89 - Subban 0.71
Bouwmeester 0.69 - Pietrangelo 0.61

Garrison 0.59 - Weber 0.62
Boyle 0.60 - Doughty 0.53
Fowler 0.54 - Morris 0.58



PPG 2 seasons

Hall 1.08 - Crosby 1.47 - Kunitz 1.05
Stamkos 1.23 - Getzlaf 1.16 - St.Louis 1.14
Neal 0.98 - Tavares 1.00 - Staal 0.98
Duchene 0.96 - Toews 0.95 - Giroux 0.95

Ribeiro 0.89 - Thornton 0.95 - Perry 0.93
Nash 0.86 - Seguin 0.84 - Benn 0.84
Lupul 0.85 - Kadri 0.81 - Sharp 0.84
Moulson 0.83 - Spezza 0.81 - Ladd 0.82


Letang 0.83 - Subban 0.81
Keith 0.70 - Green 0.64
Bouwmeester 0.57 - Weber 0.60

Pietrangelo 0.55 - Franson 0.57
Doughty 0.49 - Seabrook 0.53
Campbell 0.50 - Boyle 0.50



PPG 3 seasons

Stamkos 1.20 - Crosby 1.52 - St.Louis 1.06
Neal 1.00 - Tavares 0.99 - Giroux 1.07
Hall 0.99 - Spezza 0.97 - Lupul 0.95
Staal 0.92 - Thornton 0.94 - Toews 0.96

Kunitz 0.90 - Getzlaf 0.93 - Sharp 0.89
Benn 0.86 - Ribeiro 0.87 - Eberle 0.87
Moulson 0.84 - Seguin 0.83 - Perry 0.84
Whitney 0.83 - Couture 0.79 - Parenteau 0.80


Keith 0.63 - Letang 0.83
Pietrangelo 0.59 - Subban 0.63
Campbell 0.57 - Weber 0.61

Wideman 0.53 - Boyle 0.55
Phaneuf 0.51 - Schultz 0.51
Green 0.50 - Seabrook 0.49

MindzEye
12-26-2013, 07:47 PM
Here's a question...on the big ice, how stupid would it be to leave Taylor Hall at home?

hockeylover
01-03-2014, 04:34 PM
Stephen Whyno
Hockey Canada's Olympic roster announcement will be at 11 a.m. Tuesday in Toronto at Leafs practice facility.

trujaysfan
01-03-2014, 04:37 PM
It's open to the public from the hockey canada tweet i saw

Habspatrol
01-03-2014, 05:15 PM
Shitty buzz... was hoping they'd do a prime time announcement. Now I'll have to listen to it on Sirius from work instead.

Matrim
01-04-2014, 02:49 AM
Benn - Crosby - St.Louis
Duchene - Tavares - Giroux
Marleau - Toews - Sharp
Staal - Getzlaf - Perry

extra: Seguin, Couture

Keith - Doughty
Bouwmeester - Piterangelo
Phaneuf - Subban
Seabrook - Weber

Price
Luongo
Smith

Golddust
01-04-2014, 11:56 AM
Bergeron ahead of Getzlaf? Or is that supposed to be in no particular order?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/hc-insiders-canadas-centres-picked-for-sochi/

"Crosby, Toews, Tavares, Bergeron, Getzlaf" are the five centres that "everyone is in agreement about".

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 12:36 PM
Is anyone pissed the NHL season is shutting down? I think the NHL doing this this time is nuts. Their revenue is insanely high and they just shut it down right in the middle? No other sport would do this.

Sens fans should be happy there's no Ryan on Team U.S.A. He could get injured.

Canada has won gold twice in the last 3 Olympics. I've seen it. It means less now.

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 12:36 PM
I think it's crazy to bring Bergeron on the big ice when he's playing shit ahead of true franchise centres.

Golddust
01-04-2014, 12:38 PM
How dare they consider the best defensive and faceoff centre in the world who is also a proven winner and clutch offensive performer for a fourth line role. Not at all what you need out of a fourth line centre - they should stick no intensity can't put the puck in the net Joe Thornton there instead! And send Claude Giroux out to kill penalties. Great scorers can flip a switch and become elite defensively at will!

Golddust
01-04-2014, 12:39 PM
Canada has won gold twice in the last 3 Olympics. I've seen it. It means less now.

Canada needs to prove that they can win on the big ice.

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 12:41 PM
Wasn't Salt Lake City the big ice? I can't remember.

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 12:42 PM
How dare they consider the best defensive and faceoff centre in the world who is also a proven winner and clutch offensive performer for a fourth line role. Not at all what you need out of a fourth line centre - they should stick no intensity can't put the puck in the net Joe Thornton there instead! And send Claude Giroux out to kill penalties. Great scorers can flip a switch and become elite defensively at will!

Defensive play is so ****ing overrated now. It can mean different things on a much bigger ice surface

Deckie007
01-04-2014, 12:45 PM
Getzlaf, Toews >> Bergeron on any ice surface

leafman101
01-04-2014, 12:46 PM
Getzlaf and Toews are going to make it too.

LeafGm
01-04-2014, 12:51 PM
Getzlaf, Toews >> Bergeron on any ice surface
...and in any conceivable situation, whether it be the power-play, penalty kill, or the last minute of a game with a one-goal lead.

Just bring our best ****ing players. Patrice Bergeron is not one our Canada's best four centers, and he's not one of our thirteen best forwards. He's a very useful NHL player that pretty much any NHL team would love to have, but a glorified 50-60 point center has absolutely no place on Canada's national team. Though of course, he will be there anyways.

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 12:54 PM
The issue is, star NHL players can better defensively than in any time in NHL history. Defensive play has never been such a focus and developed even for big name offensive stars.

Due to that, it's crazy to bring a guy only for defensive play-a guy who's great defensively on a small surface.

leafman101
01-04-2014, 01:03 PM
Bergeron isn't just a good defensive player though. He is a good player. Period.

And we aren't talking about taking him over elite guys like Getzlaf and Toews. He is competing for a spot with guys like Sharp, Marleau, Eberle, Kunitz, Thornton, Nash, Lucic, Neal, Carter, Richards, Jordan Staal.

Golddust
01-04-2014, 01:03 PM
...and in any conceivable situation, whether it be the power-play, penalty kill, or the last minute of a game with a one-goal lead.

Just bring our best ****ing players. Patrice Bergeron is not one our Canada's best four centers, and he's not one of our thirteen best forwards. He's a very useful NHL player that pretty much any NHL team would love to have, but a glorified 50-60 point center has absolutely no place on Canada's national team. Though of course, he will be there anyways.


Didn't you witness Bergeron sink your team in Game 7? Oh right, you didn't watch the replay.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FoOwpWRXlk

That is why Bergeron will be on the team - elite hockey sense. He does literally everything right on that play.

Golddust
01-04-2014, 01:09 PM
You people are funny - defensive play, faceoffs, PK skill, clutch ability, and resume mean absolutely nothing to you. It's all about flashiness and points. It's that kind of superficial analysis that causes you to see Jake Gardiner skate good and anoint him as Bobby Orr.

WellPlayed
01-04-2014, 01:16 PM
Meh, whatever he's Canada's golden plugger so he'll be there. Has to be atleast one. I thought he looked completely out of place in 2010 and was our worst forward, but it's not a big deal.

Golddust
01-04-2014, 01:28 PM
Meh, whatever he's Canada's golden plugger so he'll be there. Has to be atleast one. I thought he looked completely out of place in 2010 and was our worst forward, but it's not a big deal.

In 2010 Bergeron suffered a groin injury in the first game and was thereafter made the thirteenth forward. It was easy for him to look like the worst forward when he was out there for less than 5 minutes a game and in the toughest situations. Still, he did a decent job despite being made to look silly on one occasion when Drew Doughty went after Bergeron's man and crashed into him.

trujaysfan
01-04-2014, 01:42 PM
How long does it take for the coaching staff to realize Bergeron is unplayable this Olympics? Sure hope our 13th forward is ready to step in and log big minutes AGAIN.

He was taken in 2010 because of his "chemistry" with crosby and was unplayable.... thankfully we took some kid with us to get him experience.

Golddust
01-04-2014, 01:51 PM
Sure hope our 13th forward is ready to step in and log big minutes AGAIN.


That 13th forward, plugger Brendan Morrow, happened to play very well.

Bergeron-like Mike Richards was even better.

IrishWolfman
01-04-2014, 01:51 PM
Right now, I've got my roster as:

James Neal - Sidney Crosby - Corey Perry
Taylor Hall - Jonathan Toews - Matt Duchene
Martin St. Louis - John Tavares - Claude Giroux
Jamie Benn - Ryan Getzlaf - Patrick Sharp

Taxi: Steven Stamkos (injury) and Logan Couture

There is no argument to be made that Patrice Bergeron deserves to be there over any of those players.

WellPlayed
01-04-2014, 02:21 PM
I've seen a couple people use Mike Richards as an example of a grinder we brought to Vancouver, but that's just not true. He was coming off of 2 PPG+ seasons in 07/08 and 08/09. He was an elite offensive player at that point in time.

It's only in recent seasons that his offense has fallen off.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 02:26 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/hc-insiders-canadas-centres-picked-for-sochi/

"Crosby, Toews, Tavares, Bergeron, Getzlaf" are the five centres that "everyone is in agreement about".

I hope that means Giroux is playing the wing cause it would be certifiably insane to have Bergeron ahead of Giroux.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 02:28 PM
Is anyone pissed the NHL season is shutting down? I think the NHL doing this this time is nuts. Their revenue is insanely high and they just shut it down right in the middle? No other sport would do this.

Sens fans should be happy there's no Ryan on Team U.S.A. He could get injured.

Canada has won gold twice in the last 3 Olympics. I've seen it. It means less now.
Well they aren't giving up any revenue because they still play all the games. Plus they get the benefit of showcasing their best players to the world.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 02:29 PM
How dare they consider the best defensive and faceoff centre in the world who is also a proven winner and clutch offensive performer for a fourth line role. Not at all what you need out of a fourth line centre - they should stick no intensity can't put the puck in the net Joe Thornton there instead! And send Claude Giroux out to kill penalties. Great scorers can flip a switch and become elite defensively at will!

They have the 2 best two way forwards in the league in Crosby and Toews already... why bring the much less talented Bergeron?

LeafGm
01-04-2014, 02:31 PM
Yeah, I think I could easily live with throwing Crosby and/or Toews out there on the PK.

With the amazing elite depth you can have on Team Canada, that's the kind of luxury they should be giving themselves.

trujaysfan
01-04-2014, 02:39 PM
Few questions you need to ask yourself:

Do we have better options than Bergeron to take big faceoffs? Yes
Do we want Bergeron on late in games protecting leads? would rather have Toews
Are we expecting to run away with games and therefore can take a vastly inferior offensive player who may have a slight edge in a specific defensive skillset? I certainly do not think so

For those reasons he gets left at home, good player but not Team CANADA good

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 02:41 PM
Right now, I've got my roster as:

James Neal - Sidney Crosby - Corey Perry
Taylor Hall - Jonathan Toews - Matt Duchene
Martin St. Louis - John Tavares - Claude Giroux
Jamie Benn - Ryan Getzlaf - Patrick Sharp

Taxi: Steven Stamkos (injury) and Logan Couture

There is no argument to be made that Patrice Bergeron deserves to be there over any of those players.

That looks pretty good... and from the sounds of it Stamkos will be ready for the Olympics. I like that you have Hall on the team... he'd be dynamite on the big ice playing with a couple elite linemates. I had him on my team as well.

LeafGm
01-04-2014, 02:44 PM
For those reasons he gets left at home, good player but not Team CANADA good
Well, to be specific, those are the reasons he should be left at home. But I'm still pretty sure they will bring him.

I'm similarly concerned that they'll put Chris "I'm a 50-60 point player without Crosby" Kunitz on the team as well.

trujaysfan
01-04-2014, 02:44 PM
If stamkos is available you basically have to go:

St. Louis - Crosby - Stamkos 1st line right?

I'm a little worried about hall because of his defence but having him with Toews might actually work and help Hall grow as a player

trujaysfan
01-04-2014, 02:46 PM
Well, to be specific, those are the reasons he should be left at home. But I'm still pretty sure they will bring him.

I'm similarly concerned that they'll put Chris "I'm a 50-60 point player without Crosby" Kunitz on the team as well.

Yes i'm expecting to be pretty pissed off Tuesday morning, might get a nice surprise but i doubt it.

zeke
01-04-2014, 02:56 PM
I really don't have much of a problem with Bergeron making the team. He's proved himself as a frontline player since the last olympics.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 02:58 PM
If stamkos is available you basically have to go:

St. Louis - Crosby - Stamkos 1st line right?

I'm a little worried about hall because of his defence but having him with Toews might actually work and help Hall grow as a player
I dunno...

Neal-Crosby-?
?-Stamkos-St.Louis

Seems like a heck of a great start to 2 lines.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 02:59 PM
I really don't have much of a problem with Bergeron making the team. He's proved himself as a frontline player since the last olympics.

I don't know what is stupider... your opinion or your grammar. He has proven himself as a top line NHLer... but not elite.

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 03:04 PM
David Krecji is better "All Around" than Bergeron easily.

zeke
01-04-2014, 03:07 PM
Stamkos - Crosby - St.Louis
Neal - Getzlaf - Perry
Sharp - Toews - Staal
Hall - Tavares - Duchene
Benn - Couture - Giroux

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 03:08 PM
You people are funny - defensive play, faceoffs, PK skill, clutch ability, and resume mean absolutely nothing to you. It's all about flashiness and points. It's that kind of superficial analysis that causes you to see Jake Gardiner skate good and anoint him as Bobby Orr.

"Intangibles" are overrated. The hardest thing to do in the NHl is score 5 on 5.

TimHorton
01-04-2014, 03:10 PM
defensive play, faceoffs, PK skill, clutch ability, and resume

We have guys on Team Canada that do all of that better than Bergeron.

Golddust
01-04-2014, 03:26 PM
We have guys on Team Canada that do all of that better than Bergeron.

No they don't.

This is a guy who outperformed Crosby and Toews head to head in last year's playoffs.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 03:36 PM
Oh boy

JackBurton
01-04-2014, 03:45 PM
Well they aren't giving up any revenue because they still play all the games. Plus they get the benefit of showcasing their best players to the world.

If you read into the numbers, it seems the NHL is getting screwed financially by this Olympic situation. Just not worth it imo.

hockeylover
01-04-2014, 03:51 PM
No they don't.

This is a guy who outperformed Crosby and Toews head to head in last year's playoffs.

Also outperformed by your personal faves James Van Riemsdyk, Phil Kessel, Cody Franson and Jake Gardiner head to head in last year's playoffs.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 03:54 PM
If you read into the numbers, it seems the NHL is getting screwed financially by this Olympic situation. Just not worth it imo.

Really? I never read that. Doesn't seem to make sense to me... seems like it would be the same revenue plus extra exposure. I'm sure someone can find away to prove that theory wrong though.

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 03:56 PM
Also outperformed by your personal faves James Van Riemsdyk, Phil Kessel, Cody Franson and Jake Gardiner head to head in last year's playoffs.

Well yeah... clearly they're all better than Toews.

IrishWolfman
01-04-2014, 04:00 PM
No they don't.

This is a guy who outperformed Crosby and Toews head to head in last year's playoffs.

I maybe paraphrasing Patrick Roy here, but remind me who came away with the Cup ring in that particular matchup?

Habspatrol
01-04-2014, 04:07 PM
I maybe paraphrasing Patrick Roy here, but remind me who came away with the Cup ring in that particular matchup?

Toews can’t really hear what Golddust says because he's got his two Stanley Cup rings plugging his ears.

MindzEye
01-04-2014, 07:43 PM
No they don't.

This is a guy who outperformed Crosby and Toews head to head in last year's playoffs.

He did what now? Toews scored 5 points in the series, Bergeron scored 5 points in the series. Except of course, Toews scored all 5 of his points in the final 3 games, all 3 of which were Chicago wins.

UWHabs
01-05-2014, 11:45 AM
If Bergeron is the worst player we bring along, we're not in a bad shape. I have absolutely 0 issue with him being on the roster.

My problem will come when the coach decides to play him in the last minute when we need a goal because he's a "clutch player". Put him out when we're up, but he should get almost 0 minutes of game time when we're losing a game.

MyNameIsJonas
01-05-2014, 12:15 PM
If Bergeron is the worst player we bring along, we're not in a bad shape. I have absolutely 0 issue with him being on the roster.

My problem will come when the coach decides to play him in the last minute when we need a goal because he's a "clutch player". Put him out when we're up, but he should get almost 0 minutes of game time when we're losing a game.

Or have him take offensive zone faceoffs because he's 4% better than Toews/Crosby.

If he's brought along to kill penalties and take defensive zone draws i have no real qualm with it.

However one of our wingers would have to be able to play C in case of injury, i dont want that role for Bergeron expanding under any circumstance.

gilmour93forever
01-05-2014, 01:23 PM
I don't know if this got mentioned or not, but I was out watching the Leaf game last night and between the 2nd and 3rd I saw them talking about "locks" and "filling out the roster". So how the f*ck do they put guys names like Boychuk, Campbell and Vlasic on the "filling out the roster" list but not Phaneuf. Made me think CBC is such a joke sometimes...

MyNameIsJonas
01-05-2014, 01:24 PM
Boychuk?

JackBurton
01-05-2014, 01:34 PM
But HNIC loves the Leafs!

hockeylover
01-05-2014, 01:41 PM
Everyone's saying Kunitz is in...

gilmour93forever
01-05-2014, 01:45 PM
Boychuk?

Exactly, like they have a hard-on for Boston. They called Bergeron a "lock" too.

LeafGm
01-05-2014, 01:56 PM
Everyone's saying Kunitz is in...
It wouldn't shock me at all. Wasn't Bergeron's whole reason for making the team last time that played well on Crosby's line at the WJC's? So, why not take Crosby's glorified 50-60 point NHL linemate?

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 02:07 PM
If Kunitz is on the team we might as well give Sweden/Russia the gold now and not even bother with the premise of Canada winning, because they clearly will have no taken the selection process seriously.

Golddust
01-05-2014, 02:17 PM
Everyone's saying Kunitz is in...

If Kunitz is in it's likely by Sid's request. Anyway, not a terrible choice...one can't discount the importance of chemistry in a short tournament like this. Canada isn't so far above the other nations that they can win the tournament just by virtue of their talent on paper.

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 02:25 PM
I'm not saying Kunitz should be on the team but I watch a lot of Penguin games and whether or not it's only because he plays with Sid he's been playing some very good hockey the past couple years. He has good wheels, plays hard every shift, hits a lot, scores a lot. If it's all because of Crosby then I suppose you keep them together.

I've seen a lot of players on Crosby's wing over the years, but he's been as good or better than any. Sid tends to make his line mates better, but Kunitz has really gotten a lot better the past 2 seasons.

I'd take him over Bergeron, but behind Neal. We have so many great centres... need some wingers that can produce.

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 02:25 PM
If Kunitz is in it's likely by Sid's request. Anyway, not a terrible choice...one can't discount the importance of chemistry in a short tournament like this. Canada isn't so far above the other nations that they can win the tournament just by virtue of their talent on paper.

With our forwards we certainly can win based on talent... other countries have to take us into account when building a roster. We shouldn't be taking inferior players because they score points with the best player on the planet. That would be as dumb as taking a defensive specialist C who probably wouldn't even be your best defensive C.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 02:26 PM
"Chemistry" is such a bullshit argument for this type of format. It's that sort of reasoning that led Bergeron to be undeservingly included on the previous Canadian edition due to his "chemistry" with Crosby from a World Junior tournament half a decade previously. He then proceeded to be Canada's worst forward in the tournament and was a glorified face-off specialist receiving minimal ice-time by the end of the tournament.

Simply take the best players. It's Sidney Crosby. He'll play well with anyone.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 02:28 PM
I'm not saying Kunitz should be on the team but I watch a lot of Penguin games and whether or not it's only because he plays with Sid he's been playing some very good hockey the past couple years. He has good wheels, plays hard every shift, hits a lot, scores a lot. If it's all because of Crosby then I suppose you keep them together.

I've seen a lot of players on Crosby's wing over the years, but he's been as good or better than any. Sid tends to make his line mates better, but Kunitz has really gotten a lot better the past 2 seasons.

I'd take him over Bergeron, but behind Neal. We have so many great centres... need some wingers that can produce.

If any Penguin should be on this team that isn't Crosby or Letang - who has likely played his way off the team the past year with his inconsistency - it should be Neal.

He's at least demonstrated a proven track record of being able to produce independently of the world's best player, and he is also a much more physical, gritty, and bigger guy than Kunitz.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 02:29 PM
With our forwards we certainly can win based on talent... other countries have to take us into account when building a roster. We shouldn't be taking inferior players because they score points with the best player on the planet. That would be as dumb as taking a defensive specialist C who probably wouldn't even be your best defensive C.

Agreed completely. Toews is pretty clearly Canada's best defensive centre regardless, but the difference is that he's also a valuable asset on the PP and can produce offensively at even strength.

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 02:32 PM
If any Penguin should be on this team that isn't Crosby or Letang - who has likely played his way off the team the past year with his inconsistency - it should be Neal.

He's at least demonstrated a proven track record of being able to produce independently of the world's best player, and he is also a much more physical, gritty, and bigger guy than Kunitz.

I would take Neal only if Stamkos isn't available...

w/Stamkos: Stamkos - Crosby - St Louis (i like stamkos on the wing more than other C's we have)
wo/Stamkos: Neal - Crosby - St. Louis

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 02:41 PM
If any Penguin should be on this team that isn't Crosby or Letang - who has likely played his way off the team the past year with his inconsistency - it should be Neal.

He's at least demonstrated a proven track record of being able to produce independently of the world's best player, and he is also a much more physical, gritty, and bigger guy than Kunitz.

I said I'd have Neal ahead of Kunitz... and also that I wouldn't have Kunitz on the team... but I'd have him ahead of Bergeron.

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 02:43 PM
I would take Neal only if Stamkos isn't available...

w/Stamkos: Stamkos - Crosby - St Louis (i like stamkos on the wing more than other C's we have)
wo/Stamkos: Neal - Crosby - St. Louis

Neal should be a lock. He's been a beast over the past couple years and I believe he's got the most points per game in the league this year. I can't think of an argument against bringing him. He's big, strong, can skate and score. He's also not bad defensively at all.

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 02:45 PM
If toews or crosby go down with an injury i would take Bergeron as my 13th forward (as cover in the event that the other goes down mid tournament). But if that doesn't happen then i would have many players ahead of Bergeron

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 02:47 PM
Neal should be a lock. He's been a beast over the past couple years and I believe he's got the most points per game in the league this year. I can't think of an argument against bringing him. He's big, strong, can skate and score. He's also not bad defensively at all.

I looked back at my original picks and I had him on my 4th line and i still agree with it (although i would like to find a way to add hall and benn to my lineup and so far all i have come up with is cutting nash).

Some very tough decisions with this team lets hope we don't try and outsmart ourselves.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 02:49 PM
I said I'd have Neal ahead of Kunitz... and also that I wouldn't have Kunitz on the team... but I'd have him ahead of Bergeron.

My post wasn't in response to yours. You posted while I was typing mine up.

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 02:53 PM
My post wasn't in response to yours. You posted while I was typing mine up.

:lol But you quoted me.

http://www.forumice.com/showthread.php?59633-Line-up-your-Line-ups-Sochi-prediction-thread&p=2229415&viewfull=1#post2229415

Deckie007
01-05-2014, 02:55 PM
:lol But you quoted me.

http://www.forumice.com/showthread.php?59633-Line-up-your-Line-ups-Sochi-prediction-thread&p=2229415&viewfull=1#post2229415

http://i.imgur.com/fYlRLP9.gif

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 02:57 PM
it should be Neal.

He's at least demonstrated a proven track record of being able to produce independently of the world's best player, and he is also a much more physical, gritty, and bigger guy than Kunitz.

And not that we're bringing anyone for their hitting but I'd have to strongly disagree with this. Kunitz is far grittier and more physical than Neal. Kunitz hits everything that moves and even though he's smaller than Neal he hits harder. He plays a very gritty game.

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 03:02 PM
Other topic sorta: if we are looking to bring a hitting guy (which i don't think we need) do you take Lucic or Kunitz?

Lucic is bigger, and one of the most intimidating players in the league

Kunitz hits hard and has a better offensive record the past 2 years but also has the crosby/malkin factor potentially inflating his pt totals.

Only bringing this up because i'm getting tired of the bergeron talk which will come back up tuesday

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 03:05 PM
Other topic sorta: if we are looking to bring a hitting guy (which i don't think we need) do you take Lucic or Kunitz?

Lucic is bigger, and one of the most intimidating players in the league

Kunitz hits hard and has a better offensive record the past 2 years but also has the crosby/malkin factor potentially inflating his pt totals.

Only bringing this up because i'm getting tired of the bergeron talk which will come back up tuesday
I'd rather have Lucic on my NHL team by a mile... but at this tourney on the big ice I take Kunitz who is much, much faster.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 03:05 PM
And not that we're bringing anyone for their hitting but I'd have to strongly disagree with this. Kunitz is far grittier and more physical than Neal. Kunitz hits everything that moves and even though he's smaller than Neal he hits harder. He plays a very gritty game.

Yeah I completely disagree with this on every level. I've watched Neal since junior when he systematically destroyed the entire Medicine Hat Tigers in the 2007 Memorial Cup tournament.

I'd take him every day of the week over Kunitz from a physical standpoint. He's got even more skill to boot.

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 03:25 PM
Yeah I completely disagree with this on every level. I've watched Neal since junior when he systematically destroyed the entire Medicine Hat Tigers in the 2007 Memorial Cup tournament.

I'd take him every day of the week over Kunitz from a physical standpoint. He's got even more skill to boot.

Not sure how you can disagree. Maybe he used to be more physical in junior and even with Dallas... but now, in Pittsburgh Kunitz just is far more physical. I've watched at least 90% of their games in Pittsburgh and it's really not even close. Neal is physical... but not on Kunitz' level.

We all know hits are not an exact science when it comes to stat taking but since they have been with Pittsburgh:

Kunitz:
289gp 645 hits (82gp 183 hits)

Neal:
163gp 222 hits (82gp 112 hits)

I don't doubt that Neal is capable of being more physical, but he's obviously changes his style in Pittsburgh and that's led to more offensive production and less physical play.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 03:37 PM
James Neal is one of the most thick-bodied players in the NHL and as strong as an ox. I don't care how many chintzy hits that a pest like Kunitz is picking up.

Neal would man-handle him any day of the weak. You yourself concede that Neal has changed his style since moving to Pittsburgh. That doesn't detract from the potential of physical dominance.

And in a short tournament format I would much rather have both the physically bigger, stronger, and more offensively-gifted player who has shown that he can produce independently of playing with Sidney Crosby.

Kunitz is a fraud. Entirely a product of his line-mate.

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 03:44 PM
James Neal is one of the most thick-bodied players in the NHL and as strong as an ox. I don't care how many chintzy hits that a pest like Kunitz is picking up.

Neal would man-handle him any day of the weak. You yourself concede that Neal has changed his style since moving to Pittsburgh. That doesn't detract from the potential of physical dominance.

And in a short tournament format I would much rather have both the physically bigger, stronger, and more offensively-gifted player who has shown that he can produce independently of playing with Sidney Crosby.

Kunitz is a fraud. Entirely a product of his line-mate.
You just completely changed the discussion.

I've said several times that I'd take Neal far ahead of Kunitz.

Kunitz actually throws a lot of very good/big hits. Again, I have no doubt that Neal is capable of being more physical than Kunitz, but we were discussing who actually does play a more physical game. Neal doesn't throw a lot of hits these days and he really doesn't throw big hits when he does hit.

As for Kunitz being a fraud... sure I suppose. On almost any other team I doubt he's the PPG+ player he's been the past 2 seasons... but I'd definitely take him on my team. A 60 point guy who hits everything that moves and drives the net would be a great addition to any NHL team.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 04:01 PM
We're not talking about whether you'd take him on your NHL team. The guy is a nice enough second-line player and a complimentary piece on his own merit... but then again so were Rob Brown (which people forget) and Bernie Nicholls.

And Kunitz certainly doesn't have the necessary type of pedigree where one can defensibly select him as one of the thirteen best forwards on what should be the deepest talent pool out of any country, and therefore the most difficult national team roster in the world to crack. You simply cannot make a credible argument for it. That's why those who defend his inclusion on the final roster point to the weak "chemistry" argument, which I think has little merit given the skill-sets and pedigrees of the average Canadian forward.

Crosby should be able to find chemistry with anyone.

Habspatrol
01-05-2014, 04:03 PM
We're not talking about whether you'd take him on your NHL team. The guy is a nice enough second-line player and a complimentary piece on his own merit... but then again so were Rob Brown (which people forget) and Bernie Nicholls.

And Kunitz certainly doesn't have the necessary type of pedigree where one can defensibly select him as one of the thirteen best forwards on what should be the deepest talent pool out of any country, and therefore the most difficult national team roster in the world to crack. You simply cannot make a credible argument for it. That's why those who defend his inclusion on the final roster point to the bloated "chemistry" argument, which I think has little merit given the skill-sets and pedigrees of the average Canadian forward.

Crosby should be able to find chemistry with anyone.
And no one here is arguing that Kunitz should be on Team Canada.

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 04:04 PM
Good.

Metalleaf
01-05-2014, 05:33 PM
Bob Mac's Team Canada....

C: Crosby, Toews, Tavares, Getzlaf, Bergeron.
LW: Couture, Benn, Duchene, Sharp.
RW: Stamkos, Giroux, Nash, Perry, St. Louis.

LD: Keith, Bouwmeester, Vlasic, Hamhuis.
RD: Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Subban.

Goal: Price, Luongo, Smith.

Vlasic and Hamhuis?

corksens
01-05-2014, 05:35 PM
Phaneuf won't get a sniff.

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 05:37 PM
Bob Mac's Team Canada....

C: Crosby, Toews, Tavares, Getzlaf, Bergeron.
LW: Couture, Benn, Duchene, Sharp.
RW: Stamkos, Giroux, Nash, Perry, St. Louis.

LD: Keith, Bouwmeester, Vlasic, Hamhuis.
RD: Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Subban.

Goal: Price, Luongo, Smith.

Vlasic and Hamhuis?

perfect for a 4th or 5th place finish

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 05:37 PM
If they take Pickles on defence I'm going to be so pissed. Such an unnecessary role player to take in this tournament format.

Maybe Hockey Canada feels the need to increase their Quebecois quotient on the team?

LeafGm
01-05-2014, 05:39 PM
I said I'd have Neal ahead of Kunitz... and also that I wouldn't have Kunitz on the team... but I'd have him ahead of Bergeron.
Although I wouldn't want either of them on the team, I'd rank Kunitz ahead of Bergeron too. And to be clear, I do think the guy's a very good NHL hockey player. He had 60 and 50 point seasons with the Ducks long before he ever ended up on Sidney Crosby's wing, which makes him a clear-cut top-6 offensive forward in his own right. But I think we all realize that he would never end up anywhere near the PPG pace he's currently at without Crosby---I just hope Team Canada's selection people realize this too.

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 05:42 PM
1 good thing with that lineup.... we won't have to wake up to watch the gold medal game at 7am

JaysCyYoung
01-05-2014, 06:10 PM
1 good thing with that lineup.... we won't have to wake up to watch the gold medal game at 7am

Completely forgot about the time difference.

Does anyone know if bars can be granted special licences to open that early due to the extenuating circumstances if Canada makes it that far?

trujaysfan
01-05-2014, 06:26 PM
I'm sure they "could" be granted special license... I believe they did that for the last world cup when games started at 10am. Most Canada games appear to be noon starts, so it would only need to be quarters/semi's/and finals potentially

MyNameIsJonas
01-05-2014, 10:16 PM
I dont understand why Nash is automatic for people, he's been very schmeh.

TheCountofMonteCristo
01-05-2014, 10:21 PM
I can't believe Hamhuis is anywhere near the roster.

Metalleaf
01-05-2014, 10:24 PM
I dont understand why Nash is automatic for people, he's been very schmeh.

He's the new Mr. Canada.

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 12:54 AM
Gareth Wheeler
TSN lists 8 d-men making team Canada. 4 still in the mix. Phaneuf isn't one of them. Meaning he's not a top-12 CANADIAN d-man. Reality check

Montana
01-06-2014, 02:57 AM
I can't believe Hamhuis is anywhere near the roster.


Shouldn't be....he's been one of the best defensive defenseman in the entire NHL for a while now.

JackBurton
01-06-2014, 10:36 AM
I dont understand why Nash is automatic for people, he's been very schmeh.

He's just been so overrated for so long, people think he's automatic. He's already looking well past-his-prime.

rated
01-06-2014, 10:42 AM
Nash may be a bit overrated now, but you people under rate him lol

MindzEye
01-06-2014, 10:45 AM
I think this place is one of the few places where he's properly rated tbh.

rated
01-06-2014, 10:49 AM
I think this place is one of the few places where he's properly rated tbh.

By a select few individuals here, maybe lol

Habspatrol
01-06-2014, 11:33 AM
I dont understand why Nash is automatic for people, he's been very schmeh.
I can't believe that Nash is a lock. He has no business on this team. Bergeron is apparently a lock too... I disagree with having him on the team but I'd take him long before Nash.

Habspatrol
01-06-2014, 11:35 AM
Nash may be a bit overrated now, but you people under rate him lol

Nah... he's a talented but lazy mid level 1st line winger. Not Olympic level anymore.

UWHabs
01-06-2014, 11:48 AM
Nash is very similar to Ryan. I'd put Nash a bit ahead of Ryan, but I certainly wouldn't think he should be a lock. I'd take him ahead of Kunitz, but I'd be disappointed if he made it ahead of a guy like Sharp.

leafman101
01-06-2014, 11:52 AM
The only reason to take Nash is that he was good in 2010. He hasn't done anything in the last 4 years to warrant being selected though.

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 03:41 PM
Czech Team

Elias-Krejci-Jagr
Novotny-Plekanec-Voracek
Michalek-Hanzal-Cervenka
Hemsky-Sobotka-Palat
Frolik-Nedved

Zidlicky-Smid
Kaberle-Michalek
Krajicek-Rosival
Gudas-Barinka

Pavelec
Kovar
Salak

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 03:44 PM
Swiss Team

Brunner-****i-Niederreiter
Ambruhl-Pluss-Bieber
Bodenmann-Gardner-Suri
Hollenstein-Romy-Wick
Trachsler-Moser

Streit-Josi
Diaz-Weber
Bezina-Vauclair
Blindenbacher-Furrer
Seger

Hiller
Berra
Stephan

trujaysfan
01-06-2014, 03:45 PM
27 man roster? or will they be trimming it from that point?

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 03:46 PM
I really don't think Nedved sees a game but who knows...

hairnova
01-06-2014, 03:47 PM
Kindl and Petruzalek weren't named to the Czech team.

MindzEye
01-06-2014, 03:48 PM
Swiss Team

Brunner-****i-Niederreiter
Ambruhl-Pluss-Bieber
Bodenmann-Gardner-Suri
Hollenstein-Romy-Wick
Trachsler-Moser

Streit-Josi
Diaz-Weber
Bezina-Vauclair
Blindenbacher-Furrer
Seger

Hiller
Berra
Stephan


I need his jersey

LeafGm
01-06-2014, 03:48 PM
Amazing how far the Czechs have fallen from their heyday. I didn't even know Petr Nedved was even still playing hockey, but there he is on their team.

This is a guy who's NHL career ended with 2 goals, 10 assists and 12 points in 40 games with Edmonton and Philly...and that was seven years ago.

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 03:50 PM
I need his jersey

Not a Mattias Bieber fan?

Killer93
01-06-2014, 04:01 PM
Wow that Czech team has definitely fallen off; can't wait to see who Russia and Sweden bring along

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 04:04 PM
Russia and Sweden are naming their teams tomorrow.

LeafGm
01-06-2014, 04:10 PM
Wow that Czech team has definitely fallen off; can't wait to see who Russia and Sweden bring along
Russia's declared that half their team will be coming from the KHL, so their team should have a good degree of hilarity to it as well.

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 04:14 PM
Russia's declared that half their team will be coming from the KHL, so their team should have a good degree of hilarity to it as well.

I wouldn't be mocking the KHL component of their team.

Those KHL'ers have had no problems whipping Canadian NHL quality talent at the Worlds many times over the years.

You're going to a tournament played under their rules, with a style conducive to the size of their rinks, with players who are aware of the disciplinary discretion of European officials.

A non-NHL'er could easily lead the Olympic tournament in scoring.

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 04:37 PM
If I had to guess the Russian team

Ovechkin-Datsyuk-Semin
Kovalchuk-Malkin-Radulov
Kulemin-Anisimov-Tarasenko
Tikhonov-Tereschenko-Kuznetsov
Yakupov-Nichushkin-Morozov

Markov-Emelin
Gonchar-Voynov
Nikulin-Medvedev
Nikitin-Tyutin

Varlamov
Bobrovsky
Eremenko

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 04:40 PM
That's a gold medal contender easily. Then again the Russians haven't won a best on best tournament since the 1981 Canada Cup so who knows?

LeafGm
01-06-2014, 04:42 PM
I wouldn't be mocking the KHL component of their team.

Those KHL'ers have had no problems whipping Canadian NHL quality talent at the Worlds many times over the years.

You're going to a tournament played under their rules, with a style conducive to the size of their rinks, with players who are aware of the disciplinary discretion of European officials.

A non-NHL'er could easily lead the Olympic tournament in scoring.
Yeah...nope. Excluding a few random guys like Kovalchuk, Radulov and maybe Morozov, the KHL is a giant steaming turd sandwich comparied to the NHL.

As for the "World Championships", the only international tournament that's more worthless and irrelevant is the Spengler Cup.

Matrim
01-06-2014, 04:57 PM
I don't understand how the Czech team leave hudler and vrbata at home

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 04:59 PM
Yeah...nope. Excluding a few random guys like Kovalchuk, Radulov and maybe Morozov, the KHL is a giant steaming turd sandwich comparied to the NHL.

As for the "World Championships", the only international tournament that's more worthless and irrelevant is the Spengler Cup.

Doesn't matter.

These guys can play and play well. They've got a shitload of skill in abundance and are going to be playing on home ice, in a system they know perfectly well, with a game better suited to them.

They are a legitimate threat and arrogant dismissals should be done at your own peril.

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 05:06 PM
The Spengler Cup is great and I hope to one day go to Davos watch it live. It's minor league hockey but who cares.

LeafGm
01-06-2014, 05:29 PM
Doesn't matter.

These guys can play and play well. They've got a shitload of skill in abundance and are going to be playing on home ice, in a system they know perfectly well, with a game better suited to them.

They are a legitimate threat and arrogant dismissals should be done at your own peril.
Well, I guess I like to live perilously then. If the Russians do indeed fill up half their lineup with KHL hacks, then I will go ahead and arrogantly dismiss any chance they have of winning a Gold medal at this tournament. Though they could still have a chance if Putin has the families of the tournament's referees kidnapped and threatens to execute them if Russia doesn't win.



The Spengler Cup is great and I hope to one day go to Davos watch it live. It's minor league hockey but who cares.
Oh, I'm sure the tournament would be a lot of fun to attend. The same goes for the World Championships. I'm just a little baffled when anyone thinks either of these tournaments actually tells us anything about Canada's place on the world stage when it comes to hockey.

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 05:36 PM
LeafGM, you do realize that it's those "KHL hacks" that you dismissed earlier are the quality former NHL'ers that are tearing up the league, right? They're not going to be putting some fourth liner from Dynamo Moscow onto the Russian team.

But go ahead and discount Kovalchuk, Radulov, and Morozov.

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 05:41 PM
If Sergei Mozyakin makes the team you may have a point.

LeafGm
01-06-2014, 05:46 PM
LeafGM, you do realize that it's those "KHL hacks" that you dismissed earlier are the quality former NHL'ers that are tearing up the league, right? They're not going to be putting some fourth liner from Dynamo Moscow onto the Russian team.

But go ahead and discount Kovalchuk, Radulov, and Morozov.
Alright, go ahead and name me some Russian "quality former NHLers" playing in the KHL, beyond the three I've named already, that should have other countries quaking in their boots.

I'll wait.

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 05:48 PM
Those are the three that matter most and they happen to be KHL'ers. They've got more than enough NHL quality players at every other position.

Nikulin is easily good enough to be a #2 defenceman in the NHL for instance.

I simply don't understand, given how bad Canada has historically played in Europe, how any Canadian fan can go in thinking the ****ing Russian national team playing on home soil is going to be a cake walk.

Let alone laugh at their roster.

And those KHL'ers were scoring on Canadian goalies in the Worlds against Canadian teams that had guys like Nash, Giroux, and Stamkos on them.

LeafGm
01-06-2014, 05:51 PM
If Kovalchuk, Radulov and Morozov are the only KHLers on the roster, I won't be laughing.

But if up to half the team is from the KHL, as we've heard from some reports...then I will have a good gut laugh at their team for sure.

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 05:55 PM
"Tretiak is a garbage goalie. Amateur night for our boys!"

Metalleaf
01-06-2014, 06:04 PM
On the team I posted 10 are KHLers.

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 06:10 PM
On the team I posted 10 are KHLers.

Kuznetsov's another gem. Might be the best prospect outside the NHL. Hell he might be the best non-NHL player period.

Future star right there.

MindzEye
01-06-2014, 06:12 PM
"Tretiak is a garbage goalie. Amateur night for our boys!"

Yeah, in the 70's when scouting the Red Army team was an act of espionage. Brandon Bochenski is pimping the KHL, let's not over state it's quality here.

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 06:16 PM
Yeah, in the 70's when scouting the Red Army team was an act of espionage. Brandon Bochenski is pimping the KHL, let's not over state it's quality here.

Brandon Bochenski won't be on the Russian Olympic team. The style of play is different over in Europe and we happen to be going into a European tournament.

You'll have to forgive me, because normally the crappy NHL guys that can't compete in North America tend to clean up at these events with more room and more time to work, and I'm used to seeing superior Canadian talent on paper frequently humbled by guys that they should be better than.

JackBurton
01-06-2014, 06:36 PM
Did they change the rules? Because how can Nedved play in the Olympics for the Czech team when he represented Canada?

MindzEye
01-06-2014, 06:38 PM
Brandon Bochenski won't be on the Russian Olympic team. The style of play is different over in Europe and we happen to be going into a European tournament.

You'll have to forgive me, because normally the crappy NHL guys that can't compete in North America tend to clean up at these events with more room and more time to work, and I'm used to seeing superior Canadian talent on paper frequently humbled by guys that they should be better than.

I don't know that I see any parallels between the WHC and an Olympics in that regard. During the WHC, it's a bunch of guys who either missed the playoffs and want to play for Canada quick before heading off to Cabo for a few weeks, and a bunch of guys who just got bounced from the playoffs, playing against a bunch of European guys who are playing in their Stanley Cup. Everyone gets up for the Olympics.

JaysCyYoung
01-06-2014, 06:38 PM
Did they change the rules? Because how can Nedved play in the Olympics for the Czech team when he represented Canada?

Trottier also represented the United States in a Canada Cup years after representing Canada. Peter Stastny represented Canada as well before representing Czechoslovakia and then Slovakia.