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Habspatrol
01-24-2014, 01:01 PM
I figured since we had a really good discussion about topics that I feel are myths such as "bulletin board material" and "contract years" or any other kind of extra motivation you can think of.

I think it could be very interesting to actually try to predict things by judging a players/teams motivation before we actually see the result. For instance, tonight the Habs are playing Detroit and some are saying that Price will be "extra motivated" to perform well in front of Babc0ck. Now obviously he could perform well because he's a really good goalie. Also, Marleau and Thornton were having good seasons in their contract years. Now that they have signed extensions will they take it easy and not play as well since they now have new contracts?

I've heard people say that Nash is playing so well since being named to the Olympic team because there were so many detractors. Also St.Louis has been playing well since being snubbed, you know... cause he's proving that he should have been selected. But Bobby Ryan has done very little since being snubbed. He should have been more motivated than anyone due to how big of a story his snubbing was.


So lets try to predict what will happen with the different levels of motivated.

Price will have a great game to impress Babc0ck
Marleau and Thornton will see a drop off due to being less motivated now

Anything else?

worm
01-24-2014, 01:31 PM
1.2 PPG in the CHL is a myth

go maccarron!

Habspatrol
01-24-2014, 01:32 PM
Hell, we'd have to hope that .52 in the CHL was a myth.

trujaysfan
01-24-2014, 01:48 PM
Kessel is a "Streaky" player
Subban is hated around the league

Only good ole canadain boys can captain a cup contender

Sports commentators are more than just blabbering idiots who are there to appeal to the lowest common denominator for ratings
CBC is in love with the Leafs

So many Myths

TheCountofMonteCristo
01-24-2014, 02:38 PM
Well I do know from watching my son that you can have extra motivation at times. Granted he is a minor league player but when he played his oldorganization for the first time this year, he was very nervous and didn't have his best game the first one. However, afterward, he was motivated as hell and had his three best games of the year against them.

hockeylover
01-24-2014, 04:02 PM
Of course you can. There's all sorts of things that would provide a person with additional motivation to compete harder. It doesn't always result in success but I think it's silly to suggest that since it doesn't always work that the additional motivation didn't exist.

JackBurton
01-24-2014, 08:06 PM
"Maple Leafs" is spelled wrong.

Montana
01-24-2014, 09:19 PM
"I believe luck is a concept invented by the weak, to explain their failures."



- Ron Swanson

Habspatrol
01-24-2014, 09:33 PM
"I didn't hear him because my two Stanley Cup rings were plugging my ears."

—Patrick Roy

Habspatrol
01-24-2014, 09:50 PM
"I slept like a baby. Every two hours I woke up and cried."

—Tom McKvie on sleeping after a loss

Deckie007
01-24-2014, 09:55 PM
"Aw, c'mon, how could he lose the ball in the sun? He's from Mexico."--Chicago Cub announcer Harry Caray, grousing about outfielder Jorge Orta misplaying a fly ball

Pronger84
01-24-2014, 10:19 PM
“I’d have my c— out if I scored four goals. I’d have my c— out, stroking it"- Joe Thornton

Hoss
01-24-2014, 10:31 PM
See Carmelo score 62 tonight? Most a knick has ever scored in game.

He was asked what lead to that, and he said they showed a video of a Muhammad Ali speech and they all raised their game.

But according to some a motivational speech means nothing. I ain't saying the speech lead to all that. But no one knows what certain things do to internal confidence

Montana
01-24-2014, 10:51 PM
People really do lap these stories up......it's fascinating.

MyNameIsJonas
01-24-2014, 10:53 PM
People really do lap these stories up......it's fascinating.

How do beings from your planet react?

Metalleaf
01-24-2014, 10:55 PM
"Win one for the Gipper"

MyNameIsJonas
01-24-2014, 11:01 PM
"This one is going to be personal"

Deckie007
01-24-2014, 11:02 PM
"Shock the world"

trujaysfan
01-24-2014, 11:02 PM
"It's us against them" generally said when facing a hostile environment

MyNameIsJonas
01-24-2014, 11:04 PM
Don't have sex before the big game.

Habspatrol
01-24-2014, 11:29 PM
See Carmelo score 62 tonight? Most a knick has ever scored in game.

He was asked what lead to that, and he said they showed a video of a Muhammad Ali speech and they all raised their game.

But according to some a motivational speech means nothing. I ain't saying the speech lead to all that. But no one knows what certain things do to internal confidence

I wonder if he was being honest how many times he'd say he had seen or heard a very motivational speech? I'm guessing that it happens quite frequently in sports.

Habspatrol
01-24-2014, 11:30 PM
Don't have sex before the big game.

That one is at least based in logic. Sex takes a lot of energy... you shouldn't waste your energy before a big game.

Habspatrol
01-24-2014, 11:42 PM
"Is that a beard, or is Niedermayer eating a muskrat?"
-Neale commenting on Rob Niedermayer’s facial hair.

Bleedsblue&white
01-24-2014, 11:49 PM
That one is at least based in logic. Sex takes a lot of energy... you shouldn't waste your energy before a big game.

But it's wrong. The study showed the opposite actually, if I remember correctly. Something about elevated levels of goodness causing an increase in positivitrons...or something.

Hoss
01-25-2014, 11:00 AM
I wonder if he was being honest how many times he'd say he had seen or heard a very motivational speech? I'm guessing that it happens quite frequently in sports.

you and Montana have NO proof that people can be motivated by something. Human beings react different to everything. if a video or a story or an action from the other team makes you finish the check a little harder or push past someone with a little more gusto, then it is what it is. There is science out there that talks about the strength of positive thought and visualizing. But according you scientist you and scientist Montana. Athletes give exactly the same amount of effort and skill every game. There is nothing that can make one play harder or softer. Nothing.

That's ridiculous.

Have you ever played against someone that you couldn't stand, or someone who was really good, and you told yourself... "this game I am going to make sure this happens" and when your on the field or ice you focus more on that guy? Then you have done something different than you would have if you played another team. You have become motivated to do something.

You sound like a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks who really haven't played competitive sports in your life (now watch them both tell me they were amazing _________ players)

CH1
01-25-2014, 11:42 AM
I wonder if he was being honest how many times he'd say he had seen or heard a very motivational speech? I'm guessing that it happens quite frequently in sports.

That reminds me of Ray Lewis, recently retired Baltimore Raven, who gave some of the most passionate emotional speeches in the modern era of pro sports. NFL Films would always show bits of them when they won, but I read he gave those wild speeches before every game - many of those losses.

Here's one he gave to Stanford Basketball which is awesome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fhOVQ9wEA#t=77

Montana
01-25-2014, 11:51 AM
People believe in god and pray for miracles......when things work out, god and the prayers get the credit, when they don't those prayers aren't brought up.

Just like the mythology around sports. People hear about these tropes from a very young age and buy into it hook line and sinker, so then when it's pointed out later in life how silly it is, some have a hard time letting it go.....not unlike some and their religion.

Habspatrol
01-25-2014, 12:05 PM
you and Montana have NO proof that people can be motivated by something. Human beings react different to everything. if a video or a story or an action from the other team makes you finish the check a little harder or push past someone with a little more gusto, then it is what it is. There is science out there that talks about the strength of positive thought and visualizing. But according you scientist you and scientist Montana. Athletes give exactly the same amount of effort and skill every game. There is nothing that can make one play harder or softer. Nothing.

That's ridiculous.

Have you ever played against someone that you couldn't stand, or someone who was really good, and you told yourself... "this game I am going to make sure this happens" and when your on the field or ice you focus more on that guy? Then you have done something different than you would have if you played another team. You have become motivated to do something.

You sound like a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks who really haven't played competitive sports in your life (now watch them both tell me they were amazing _________ players)
If that's what you get out of what I've been saying then either you aren't reading what I'm saying or I'm doing a poor job communicating.

I'm saying that as a pro athlete you are motivated to play hard all the time, as are the other players on both sides. I believe this extra "motivation" is minimal and had little to no bearing on the game. These guys make it to the big league because they are motivated to play hard and both sides are motivated. At that level "wanting to win" because of a motivational speech or because someone chirped you is meaningless.

zeke
01-25-2014, 12:37 PM
It is extremely hard to get up for every game in the season, and there's no doubt that every little extra bit of motivation can help.

leafman101
01-25-2014, 01:41 PM
are motivated to play hard all the time, as are the other players on both sides. I believe this extra "motivation" is minimal and had little to no bearing on the game. These guys make it to the big league because they are motivated to play hard and both sides are motivated. At that level "wanting to win" because of a motivational speech or because someone chirped you is meaningless.

IMO the problem you and Montana have on this issue is you are confusing the ideal with reality. In a perfect world every athlete is Crosby or Stamkos. But in reality they aren't, so those theories do not apply evenly across the board. We've seen plenty of guys at the complete opposite end of the spectrum and just aren't motivated at all despite crazy amounts of talent (i.e. Kovalev, Daigle). So to me is pretty clear that there is some gray area between the two polar opposites.

It reminds be of first year economics. All these theories are based on the reasonable consumer. Which is great aside from the fact that in reality consumers aren't reasonable.

Is the ideal athlete emotionless and driven? Yes. Is every athlete the ideal athlete? Of course not.

JackBurton
01-25-2014, 02:15 PM
"Yzerman was at his best as a two-way forward scoring much less points". That was always bullshit. That wasn't why Detroit started winning cups at all.

Messier's leadership was horseshit,

JackBurton
01-25-2014, 02:16 PM
That reminds me of Ray Lewis, recently retired Baltimore Raven, who gave some of the most passionate emotional speeches in the modern era of pro sports. NFL Films would always show bits of them when they won, but I read he gave those wild speeches before every game - many of those losses.

Here's one he gave to Stanford Basketball which is awesome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fhOVQ9wEA#t=77


The whole murdering thing makes me inspired less.

CH1
01-25-2014, 02:24 PM
do what he says not what he does

Bleedsblue&white
01-25-2014, 03:19 PM
There was a science show that debunked a lot of myths, but even the players involved admitted the evidence wasn't enough to overcome habit. Things like taking practice swings with weighted bats, some golf things.
Sport Science it was called.

read this link right to the bottom (pun intended if you read it), it just shows how anybody can work the internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_Science_(TV_series)

Habspatrol
01-25-2014, 03:36 PM
There was a science show that debunked a lot of myths, but even the players involved admitted the evidence wasn't enough to overcome habit. Things like taking practice swings with weighted bats, some golf things.
Sport Science it was called.

read this link right to the bottom (pun intended if you read it), it just shows how anybody can work the internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_Science_(TV_series)

Haha... did you do that?

MindzEye
01-25-2014, 04:09 PM
One that I've always liked is batters in the on deck circle swinging weighted bats. It's been shown conclusively that those doughnut weights they put on bats during warm up swings throw a batters timing off and that hitter performance improves noticeably when they're not used. Most hitters, knowing this, still use them out of habit.

Montana
01-25-2014, 04:15 PM
One that I've always liked is batters in the on deck circle swinging weighted bats. It's been shown conclusively that those doughnut weights they put on bats during warm up swings throw a batters timing off and that hitter performance improves noticeably when they're not used. Most hitters, knowing this, still use them out of habit.

It a perfect analogue to some of the things people buy into about motivation......on it's surface, people can buy into the concept that, because they practice with the heavier bat, they can then swing faster with the lighter one, improving their chances of hitting the ball.

Not unlike "Carmelo saw an inspirational Ali speech, then scored a bunch of points.....ergo, that speech must have motivated him"

Where in reality....regardless of whether the batter thinks the donut helps, or Carmelo believes the speech made him play better, the reality is they likely had no impact whatsoever (in the in the case of the donut, had a negative impact)


....but people, including players, continue to lap it up.

Habspatrol
01-25-2014, 04:21 PM
Hell, there is a very large percentage of hockey people/fans that refuse to say the word "shutout" when a goalie hasn't allowed a goal in the 3rd period.

Bleedsblue&white
01-25-2014, 05:32 PM
Haha... did you do that?

No, took me quite by surprise.

WellPlayed
01-25-2014, 05:39 PM
Hell, there is a very large percentage of hockey people/fans that refuse to say the word "shutout" when a goalie hasn't allowed a goal in the 3rd period.

Believing in superstitions is slightly different than believing that emotions/motivation play a roll in a game played by human beings.

Montana
01-25-2014, 06:02 PM
"slightly"




#keyword

CH1
01-25-2014, 06:29 PM
"slightly"

#keyword

Just to be clear....Are you saying that match outcomes are always based on a combination of talent and luck distribution?

I think effort levels plays a part. I certainly have days where I exert myself more than average. Who knows exactly why... I slept better the night before, I feel inspired, I'm in a zone, etc, etc, etc but there's no way people are always at their best.

BTW, I think most of what the sports media spits out is pure drivel that serves no purpose other than meeting content requirements.

Montana
01-25-2014, 06:44 PM
I'm saying that 99.99% of the "motivation" people point to as to why a game was won or lost, or why a certain performer had a great game, is completely irrelevant and arbitrary.

MyNameIsJonas
01-25-2014, 06:45 PM
Montana is my favorite robot

CH1
01-25-2014, 07:17 PM
I'm saying that 99.99% of the "motivation" people point to as to why a game was won or lost, or why a certain performer had a great game, is completely irrelevant and arbitrary.

true. I think factors such as motivation exist but there's no way I trust the media and fans to tell the story accurately

MindzEye
01-25-2014, 11:31 PM
Montana is my favorite robot

Bender > Montana

Deckie007
01-25-2014, 11:34 PM
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/577873793448907721/E27570CBFE4E91E6C6533C2DA1A69AC839D7F7A6/

Habspatrol
02-19-2014, 11:29 AM
Russia not getting a medal at the Sochi Olympics is the perfect example of outcome determining the narrative.

The Russians have been gearing up for these Olympics for years, since Sochi was awarded the games. With the unrivaled patriotism Russians have for "Mother Russia" there's no way they couldn't have been motivated beyond belief. Yet they lost in very unspectacular fashion and looked terrible all tournament even thought they were one of the favourites to win it all.

If they had won I guarantee that there would have been a ton of talk about them being motivated to win it for Mother Russia at home... instead the story lines are already starting to read that the pressure was too daunting.

worm
02-19-2014, 11:32 AM
pretty obvious they bought the hype and were assuming they would just get to the final because they are russian

Habspatrol
02-19-2014, 11:37 AM
There's always that angle too.

MindzEye
02-19-2014, 11:38 AM
Funny that the pressure wasn't a big deal in 2010.....


It's the ****ing Olympics, there's pressure on everyone, in every game.

LeafGm
02-19-2014, 11:40 AM
pretty obvious they bought the hype and were assuming they would just get to the final because they are russian
Yep. They figured that they could win a Gold medal and give the KHL a PR/credibility boost at the same time, because of course Mother Russia will win at home when they've spent 50 billion.

Whoopsie doodle. If I was a player on that Russian team, I'd be getting the hell out of dodge and back to North America as soon as possible.

Metalleaf
02-19-2014, 11:45 AM
Finns have 8 KHLers on their team.

Habspatrol
02-19-2014, 11:47 AM
Funny that the pressure wasn't a big deal in 2010.....


It's the ****ing Olympics, there's pressure on everyone, in every game.

Ding ding.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4656605/ding-ding-o.gif

These guys all have motivation and pressure on them every game. They're professionals playing for their team, country, career....