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View Full Version : You know that cap space we've all been counting on....?



Volcanologist
03-07-2014, 04:29 PM
from the cap rising for next year?

might only be a few million according to Sharks GM Dean Lombardi:

http://mayorsmanor.com/2014/03/dean-lombardi-on-trading-fasching-new-greene-contract/


I think the biggest thing is the realization that the capís not going up as much as we thought. We found out to our chagrin and surprise the other day that we had been told that the cap was going to be 71. Now with the Canadian dollar having tanked, that the cap could be as low as 68. Thatís a huge swing.

With the Leafs as tight to the cap as they are right now, this could be very significant news if true.

Clarkson...the gift that keeps on giving!

Killer93
03-07-2014, 04:33 PM
Buy him out.

hockeylover
03-07-2014, 04:34 PM
I'd love to ask Nonis wtf he was thinking when he made that deal.

MindzEye
03-07-2014, 04:37 PM
I don't buy it. The Canadian dollar "tanking" means that it's down 6-8 cents from where it was to start the season, and 4-5 cents from where it was when the previous predictions came out into the media. That will put a dent in overall league profits, but not like that.

Killer93
03-07-2014, 04:38 PM
Can the Leafs deal Clarkson to a team with a compliance buyout?

Volcanologist
03-07-2014, 04:46 PM
I don't buy it. The Canadian dollar "tanking" means that it's down 6-8 cents from where it was to start the season, and 4-5 cents from where it was when the previous predictions came out into the media. That will put a dent in overall league profits, but not like that.

We needed the cap to go up to 71 man. Any drop at all is not good news for this team.

LeafGm
03-07-2014, 05:00 PM
Can the Leafs deal Clarkson to a team with a compliance buyout?
I hate to think of the kind of return we'd have to surrender to get a team to eat that contract.

I'd rather we just buy him out and take the cap penalty, personally. We may as well just come to terms with this franchise perpetually having dead cap space.

MindzEye
03-07-2014, 05:04 PM
We needed the cap to go up to 71 man. Any drop at all is not good news for this team.

No, it's not. With that said, I always felt like 71 was the lowest it would go when you looked at the underpinning numbers. I have no desire to do the analysis again, but recent growth rates coupled with the NBC deal kicking in this year and the outdoor games had a cap of 72.8 next year by my math. Even shaving the top off of that for the Canadian dollar, and we're still in the ~71 million range.

It makes all sorts of sense for Dean Lombardi (or any NHL gm) to talk about lower cap numbers for next year, it would potentially help him in the extension negotiations I'm sure he has ongoing. If this huge dollar market many we're anticipating, evaporates before it ever really existed, he has a better chance of getting some of his in house talent to agree to re up a bit cheaper.

MindzEye
03-07-2014, 05:05 PM
I hate to think of the kind of return we'd have to surrender to get a team to eat that contract.

I'd rather we just buy him out and take the cap penalty, personally. We may as well just come to terms with this franchise perpetually having dead cap space.

His buy out isn't that bad, I've posted it a bunch of times already. I'd love to buy him out this up coming summer and probably fire Nonis for giving it to him.

hockeylover
03-07-2014, 05:07 PM
His buy out isn't that bad, I've posted it a bunch of times already. I'd love to buy him out this up coming summer and probably fire Nonis for giving it to him.

Just gonna leave this here again for everyone...

Clarkson Buyout Cap Hits
2014-15: $2,291,667
2015-16: $1,541,667
2016-17: $41,667
2017-18: $41,667
2018-19: $2,291,667
2019-20: $3,791,667
2020-21: $1,791,667
2021-22: $1,791,667
2022-23: $1,791,667
2023-24: $1,791,667
2024-25: $1,791,667
2025-26: $1,791,667

LeafGm
03-07-2014, 05:15 PM
His buy out isn't that bad, I've posted it a bunch of times already. I'd love to buy him out this up coming summer and probably fire Nonis for giving it to him.
Yep. I'd rather have those buyout numbers counting against our cap for the next 12 years than have his full cap hit, and Clarkson in our lineup, for the next 6 years.

hockeylover
03-07-2014, 05:30 PM
I was gonna say try and dump him off on Edmonton and retain some salary but seems he has a modified NTC/NMC.

Nonis, you dumb ****.

Blueman
03-07-2014, 05:45 PM
Nonis is the man

leafman101
03-07-2014, 05:49 PM
His buyout is really bad. Its just less bad than his contract.

Killer93
03-07-2014, 05:52 PM
Nonis is the man

http://thehockeyguys.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Dave-Nonis-Veronica-HenriToronto-SunQMI-Agency.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/assets_c/2013/11/620-clarkson-blog-131119-thumb-620xauto-336883.jpg

The one disaster that literately every member of this board predicted would happen

Volcanologist
03-07-2014, 05:55 PM
Nonis looks like a 45 year old 8 year old boy.

and how apropos that he's rocking the JFJ loaf-pinching face in that pic.

LeafOfFaith
03-07-2014, 06:39 PM
You don't buy him out after one bad season.

You gotta give him three and then see what to do at that point.

The buyout probably doesn't look half as crazy if you buy him out after year 3.

TheCountofMonteCristo
03-07-2014, 06:46 PM
Clarkson is your Gomez

TheCountofMonteCristo
03-07-2014, 06:47 PM
Just gonna leave this here again for everyone...

Clarkson Buyout Cap Hits
2014-15: $2,291,667
2015-16: $1,541,667
2016-17: $41,667
2017-18: $41,667
2018-19: $2,291,667
2019-20: $3,791,667
2020-21: $1,791,667
2021-22: $1,791,667
2022-23: $1,791,667
2023-24: $1,791,667
2024-25: $1,791,667
2025-26: $1,791,667

why are two of the years just under $42,000?

hockeylover
03-07-2014, 06:48 PM
You don't buy him out after one bad season.

You gotta give him three and then see what to do at that point.

The buyout probably doesn't look half as crazy if you buy him out after year 3.

After 3 seasons:

David Clarkson buyout from CapGeek.com

2016-17: $83,333
2017-18: $83,333
2018-19: $2,333,333
2019-20: $3,833,333
2020-21: $1,833,333
2021-22: $1,833,333
2022-23: $1,833,333
2023-24: $1,833,333

Blueman
03-07-2014, 06:57 PM
You guys are drama queens. Nonis has done a great deal for this club.

If you want to get rid of him for this one move, I'd wager you guys are overreacting.

Blueman
03-07-2014, 06:58 PM
After 3 seasons:

David Clarkson buyout from CapGeek.com

2016-17: $83,333
2017-18: $83,333
2018-19: $2,333,333
2019-20: $3,833,333
2020-21: $1,833,333
2021-22: $1,833,333
2022-23: $1,833,333
2023-24: $1,833,333
Why are we even talking about buyouts half way through 1 season on a new team and after missing 10 games?

LeafOfFaith
03-07-2014, 07:03 PM
After 3 seasons:

David Clarkson buyout from CapGeek.com

2016-17: $83,333
2017-18: $83,333
2018-19: $2,333,333
2019-20: $3,833,333
2020-21: $1,833,333
2021-22: $1,833,333
2022-23: $1,833,333
2023-24: $1,833,333

Since when does it work like this?

I thought buyouts always saw 1/3 get cut from the total salary, with the remaining 2/3 spread out over twice the remaining term - evenly.

hockeylover
03-07-2014, 07:36 PM
Since when does it work like this?

I thought buyouts always saw 1/3 get cut from the total salary, with the remaining 2/3 spread out over twice the remaining term - evenly.

How do buyouts work?

Teams are entitled to buy out player contracts for a portion of the remaining value of the contract — paid over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. Following are the buyout amounts:

Younger than age 26 at the time of buyout, 1/3 the remaining value
Age 26 or older at the time of the buyout, 2/3 the remaining value

When a player is bought out, the team still takes a cap hit for the player over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The amount of the cap hit (by year) is determined as follows:

Take the actual salary due for each remaining year
Take the Averaged Player Salary (cap hit) for the current contract
Calculate the buyout amount (as described above)
Spread the buy-out amount evenly over twice the remaining years of the contract
Take the number in No. 1 and subtract the number in No. 4. This is the "buyout savings."
Take the cap hit from No. 2 and subtract the buyout savings from No. 5.

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-buyouts-work

hockeylover
03-07-2014, 07:36 PM
Why are we even talking about buyouts half way through 1 season on a new team and after missing 10 games?

Because he really sucks.

Leafin'
03-07-2014, 08:10 PM
Hes not that bad folks.............

i hope.

I suspect he'll have a good playoff and all will be forgiven.

leafman101
03-07-2014, 08:11 PM
The people talking about buying him out never wanted him in the first place.

Corky27
03-07-2014, 11:36 PM
He has been bad enough to be talking about buying him out already.

Habsy
03-08-2014, 01:52 AM
I was gonna say try and dump him off on Edmonton and retain some salary but seems he has a modified NTC/NMC.

Nonis, you dumb ****.

You're better off trading him back to Lou and eating 25% of the hit.

Habsy
03-08-2014, 01:53 AM
Clarkson is your Gomez

Except they didn't give up a McDonagh equivalent like Rielly.

JackBurton
03-08-2014, 02:59 AM
I don't buy it. It'll be 71 million.

LeafGm
03-08-2014, 10:43 AM
Hes not that bad folks.............

i hope.

I suspect he'll have a good playoff and all will be forgiven.
People keep saying this, but if Clarkson has a good playoffs, it'll be the first in his career.

And the thing is, it's not like Clarkson is underperforming right now. That's the scary part. He's producing right around his career average offensive pace.

hockeylover
03-08-2014, 10:49 AM
People are just gonna hope anyway no matter what the numbers say. You probably won't convince them til the day we buy him out.

JackBurton
03-08-2014, 11:41 AM
It's way too early to think about buying-him-out. Wait another 2 years.

Wayward DP
03-08-2014, 12:29 PM
Clarkson + Franson for a 7th round pick. Anywhere.

Habsy
03-08-2014, 12:30 PM
Clarkson + Franson for a 7th round pick. Anywhere.

Anywhere? How about Toronto?

Wayward DP
03-08-2014, 12:32 PM
Anywhere? How about Toronto?

Anywhere else. At this point, whatever it takes to get the godawful contract off the books. In a capped environment, having almost $6 million in dead cap space wasted on a guy who can barely crack your third line is an incredible anchor/handicap.

Just need Gainey to get another job somewhere, if he took on Gomez, Clarkson can't be much worse.

Blueman
03-08-2014, 12:37 PM
The sky is not falling

Habsy
03-08-2014, 12:38 PM
The sky is not falling

Well then why'd WaywardDP dig that hole in the side of the mountain for?!?

Habsy
03-08-2014, 12:40 PM
Anywhere else. At this point, whatever it takes to get the godawful contract off the books. In a capped environment, having almost $6 million in dead cap space wasted on a guy who can barely crack your third line is an incredible anchor/handicap.

Just need Gainey to get another job somewhere, if he took on Gomez, Clarkson can't be much worse.

Problem is Gomez used to be really good then sucked badly. Clarkson was really only average. That was a hell of a contract Nonis gave him.

As I said before, have solace in the fact you also didn't give up Ryan McDonagh in the deal.

Wayward DP
03-08-2014, 12:47 PM
Problem is Gomez used to be really good then sucked badly. Clarkson was really only average. That was a hell of a contract Nonis gave him.

As I said before, have solace in the fact you also didn't give up Ryan McDonagh in the deal.

Yeah, I'd be pretty amazed if Nonis was able to a) find a suitor for Clarkson; and b) have the balls to admit he ****ed up and trade him. But hey, if Luongo, Gomez, Richards, and Carter's contracts can be traded (recognizing they are all far superior players to Clarkson, save Gomez who at least had a track record)...

And yeah, at least it was only money and cap space we wasted on the bum.

MyNameIsJonas
03-08-2014, 12:52 PM
Clarkson and a 1st for Sam Gagner.

Habsy
03-08-2014, 12:56 PM
Clarkson has a modified NTC and a NMC. Do you really think he'll accept a trade to the Oil?

Wayward DP
03-08-2014, 12:57 PM
Clarkson has a modified NTC and a NMC. Do you really think he'll accept a trade to the Oil?

Maybe if we start making him a healthy scratch?

leafman101
03-08-2014, 12:58 PM
I can't imagine Clarkson is having fun this season either.

MyNameIsJonas
03-08-2014, 12:59 PM
after the season word will emerge he's been playing with a god awful injury, like a tumor on his spine....and optimism will be abound for 2015.

Wayward DP
03-08-2014, 01:02 PM
after the season word will emerge he's been playing with a god awful injury, like a tumor on his spine....and optimism will be abound for 2015.

More like untreatable brain tumour

TimHorton
03-08-2014, 01:11 PM
after the season word will emerge he's been playing with a god awful injury, like a tumor on his spine....and optimism will be abound for 2015.

Yep, because I was so optimistic about him before this year started.

Habspatrol
03-08-2014, 02:50 PM
Clarkson + Franson for a 7th round pick. Anywhere.

If not for the NTC you'd think that a team like Edmonton or the Isles would be all over that.

Leafin'
03-08-2014, 03:31 PM
I will hold out hope for his improvement until the day he is no longer on this team.

I am a leafs fan without question.

If he can find chemistry on the 2nd line and score at a 20/45 pace i'd be happy.

hockeylover
03-08-2014, 03:44 PM
I will hold out hope for his improvement until the day he is no longer on this team.

I am a leafs fan without question.

If he can find chemistry on the 2nd line and score at a 20/45 pace i'd be happy.

I sure hope you aren't implying that anyone not holding out hope aren't real Leaf fans here...

Leafin'
03-08-2014, 03:47 PM
No.

Im just saying the I will always hold out hope for the turnaround or improvement of a player wearing the blue and white, despite what everyone else or stats will say.

Leafer goggles in full effect.

Wayward DP
03-09-2014, 01:06 PM
No.

Im just saying the I will always hold out hope for the turnaround or improvement of a player wearing the blue and white, despite what everyone else or stats will say.

Leafer goggles in full effect.

Why does that approach not apply to the Raptors?

Deckie007
03-09-2014, 01:11 PM
Why does that approach not apply to the Raptors?

He's not a Raptors fan? :shrug

hockeylover
03-09-2014, 07:18 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh_OD6UCAAAWiof.jpg

zeke
03-09-2014, 07:23 PM
Gotta post the one with the water bottle on the table.

hockeylover
03-09-2014, 07:44 PM
Leafs Stats Guy ‏@LeafsStatsGuy now
Bodie - 30 GP, 7:51 TOI/G, 9 Points, +5 (Cap Hit - 600k)
Clarkson - 43 GP, 15:59 TOI/G, 10 Points, -7 (Cap Hit - 5.25 Mil)

TimHorton
03-10-2014, 05:22 PM
Not sure of the accuracy of this (god bless twitter), but if true, ruh oh.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2014/3/10/5492384/david-clarksons-contract-is-maybe-probably-buyout-proof

MindzEye
03-10-2014, 05:42 PM
Not sure of the accuracy of this (god bless twitter), but if true, ruh oh.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2014/3/10/5492384/david-clarksons-contract-is-maybe-probably-buyout-proof

So...

Nonis just didn't offer a 25-35 point forward a retarded contract that he couldn't possibly live up to, he saw fit in his infinite wisdom to give him one that in the almost entirely ****ing certain eventuality that he couldn't live up to it, that it made no sense to buy him out?

What in the actual ****.

leafman101
03-10-2014, 05:45 PM
Brutal. Can we at least get Clarkson some HGH?

hockeylover
03-10-2014, 05:47 PM
Nonis kinda sucks.

Wayward DP
03-10-2014, 05:47 PM
Career-ending injury's the answer?

hockeylover
03-10-2014, 06:11 PM
http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/leafs/2013/08/08/maple_leafs_david_clarksons_ice_treats_for_charity _live_updates_from_dairy_queen_with_kevin_mcgran_s tarting_at_1_pm/david_clarkson_1.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg

Who's had a worse year?

MindzEye
03-10-2014, 06:23 PM
Nonis kinda sucks.

This is definitely in the "unforgivable" range of moves.

LeafOfFaith
03-10-2014, 06:25 PM
He's played 43 games, guys, in a year where he missed the first 10, was under a lot of pressure to earn his money, and where injuries have followed suspensions and taken away all momentum.

I know it doesn't look good, but just hold out till the playoffs and maybe even just next year to see if this is really what we're in store for.

Montana
03-10-2014, 06:30 PM
Hiring Burke was one of the smartest things this franchise has done in my lifetime, firing him was one of the dumbest.

MindzEye
03-10-2014, 06:33 PM
He's played 43 games, guys, in a year where he missed the first 10, was under a lot of pressure to earn his money, and where injuries have followed suspensions and taken away all momentum.

I know it doesn't look good, but just hold out till the playoffs and maybe even just next year to see if this is really what we're in store for.


I had a similar opinion of him before we signed him. I'm not basing my opinion on him, or the contract, on 43 games. He was a guy who played superhuman whenever he would play the hometown Leafs, and it left a lot of people with the impression that he's a lot better than he actually is. He's at best, a passable 3rd liner who can stand in front of the net on the PP. Seeing as we really don't need him to stand in front of the net on the PP (we have a much larger, younger, more talented player for that), then he's really just a passable 3rd liner.

The worst part is, he's guaranteed a job over people he should be competing for ice time with. His contract will force him into the lineup over guys like Ashton, D'Amigo, Bodie, Broll, etc, etc, etc over the next few years. We'll continuously see him gifted opportunities to drag the 2nd line into obscurity due to his cap hit.

MindzEye
03-10-2014, 06:34 PM
Hiring Burke was one of the smartest things this franchise has done in my lifetime, firing him was one of the dumbest.

I want to believe that, except I don't believe for a second that Burke would have hesitated to give Clarkson the same contract. Burke managed to **** free agency up every summer as well.

Montana
03-10-2014, 06:35 PM
Burke wouldn't have gone over 5 years for Clarkson. no chance.

hockeylover
03-10-2014, 06:37 PM
I want to believe that, except I don't believe for a second that Burke would have hesitated to give Clarkson the same contract. Burke managed to **** free agency up every summer as well.

No way. We would've lost out because of his 5 year rule.

I used to hate the 5 year rule but in hindsight I think most of the players he said the 5 year rule for worked out terribly - Kovalchuk, Richards, etc.

MindzEye
03-10-2014, 06:45 PM
Burke wouldn't have gone over 5 years for Clarkson. no chance.

I'm not convinced. Burkie always left an addendum on that, he would go over 5 years for the "right player". What scares me is that a guy like Clarkson (intangibles!!!!!) is what he meant by the "right player".

Montana
03-10-2014, 06:48 PM
Not even remotely a possibility.....Kessel, Phaneuf....unquestionably.



...but if Burke wouldn't go over 5 for Kovie or Richards, he sure as f*ck wasn't going to for David Clarkson.

Bleedsblue&white
03-10-2014, 06:53 PM
Hiring Burke was one of the smartest things this franchise has done in my lifetime, firing him was one of the dumbest.

You're half right.

leafman101
03-10-2014, 06:58 PM
5 years for Clarkson is still stupid bad.

hockeylover
03-10-2014, 06:59 PM
5 years for Clarkson is still stupid bad.

Oh totally. But we probably would've lost out on him to Edmonton or Ottawa.

leafman101
03-10-2014, 07:01 PM
Yeah maybe thats true. Burke did suck in free agency and always signed the one guy I didn't want them to though, so who knows.

Montana
03-10-2014, 07:05 PM
Yeah, I'm sure Burke would have liked to have signed Clarkson and would have offered him a 5 year deal......but no way Clarkson would have taken that over the deals Ottawa or Edmonton offered.

LeafOfFaith
03-10-2014, 07:10 PM
I had a similar opinion of him before we signed him. I'm not basing my opinion on him, or the contract, on 43 games. He was a guy who played superhuman whenever he would play the hometown Leafs, and it left a lot of people with the impression that he's a lot better than he actually is. He's at best, a passable 3rd liner who can stand in front of the net on the PP. Seeing as we really don't need him to stand in front of the net on the PP (we have a much larger, younger, more talented player for that), then he's really just a passable 3rd liner.

The worst part is, he's guaranteed a job over people he should be competing for ice time with. His contract will force him into the lineup over guys like Ashton, D'Amigo, Bodie, Broll, etc, etc, etc over the next few years. We'll continuously see him gifted opportunities to drag the 2nd line into obscurity due to his cap hit.

I think he's destined to be a third liner no matter what. He just doesn't have the ability to do too much other than bang pucks home from in close.

On the second line, you need a much speedier, more versatile player to keep up with Lupul and Kadri. Which is exactly what Kulemin has been for us.

So say we have Kulemin or someone like him or better to be on that second line - Clarkson isn't going to get a whiff of top 6 action.

And that makes him a mainstay on the third line, and an expensive one. But we really didn't bring him in expecting he'd be a major point producer for us. We thought he could chip in 20+ goals and provide scoring options behind the big boys. Like Mason Raymond has. But Clarkson is supposed to bring the toughness and grit intangibles.

I still think he can do that in a third line role and not take away from anything else we've got going on.

JaysCyYoung
03-10-2014, 07:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dKrEDptjps

leafman101
03-12-2014, 12:13 PM
Elliotte Friedman ‏
GMs told cap will be within $1-$2 million of what was projected in September



Was projected at $71 IIRC.

MindzEye
03-12-2014, 12:45 PM
Elliotte Friedman ‏
GMs told cap will be within $1-$2 million of what was projected in September



Was projected at $71 IIRC.

It will be higher, watch.

LeafOfFaith
03-12-2014, 03:19 PM
I think so too.

Volcanologist
03-12-2014, 03:57 PM
That would be ideal, hopefully Lombardi is incorrect.