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View Full Version : GDT Maple Leafs vs Maurice's Missing Jets 7PM EST



trujaysfan
04-05-2014, 01:58 PM
We have been doing alright the past 2 games but one wayward step and our season could be even more over.

CRL
04-05-2014, 02:18 PM
we lost 3 last games to Jets, probably season ends today

Wayward DP
04-05-2014, 02:23 PM
Jets are a very beatable team. Everyone needs to show up. Except Loops if his labia's still inflamed, he can stay home.

Leafyblue
04-05-2014, 05:22 PM
we lost 3 last games to Jets, probably season ends today

I'm glad you said that cuz the last 3 games you've said we were done and we are still there...your anti-jinx is working beautifully. :)

da_next_kid
04-05-2014, 05:36 PM
We will **** the Jets up and hopefully the Habs can do us a favour and beat the wings. I am still hoping for 7th.

Volcanologist
04-05-2014, 07:57 PM
apparently Black Magic scratched tonight???

Moneyphone needs to ring in a new city.

Bleedsblue&white
04-05-2014, 08:19 PM
Nice to see Kessel get 40... Tonight.

Volcanologist
04-05-2014, 08:24 PM
bad goal Reimsy.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 08:25 PM
Team Reimer folks.

Leafin'
04-05-2014, 08:27 PM
Garbage turnover leads to a weak goal.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 08:27 PM
Why does this team make everything so ****ing hard? The obvious hockey move is right there, nope, let's make the extra pass or trying and stick handle.

Dumbass players.

CRL
04-05-2014, 08:28 PM
I'm glad you said that cuz the last 3 games you've said we were done and we are still there...your anti-jinx is working beautifully. :)

not today

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 08:30 PM
Dion is such a pussy.

Volcanologist
04-05-2014, 08:31 PM
yep. mbow put it well, #dumbplayers.

Volcanologist
04-05-2014, 08:32 PM
great stop by Reimer there.

CRL
04-05-2014, 08:34 PM
Dion is such a pussy.

7 mln dollar pussy who is also our C

Leafin'
04-05-2014, 08:34 PM
What did i miss? i turned to the TFC game.

CRL
04-05-2014, 08:35 PM
2 shot on goal so far, back to old days

Bleedsblue&white
04-05-2014, 08:40 PM
Wow, have we passed off some luck?

ForeverTML
04-05-2014, 08:42 PM
heh got lucky there on a generally sucky PP.

That shot of Nonis' frustration was awesome.

Volcanologist
04-05-2014, 08:43 PM
Hilarious how they cut to Nonis every time something happens.

Bleedsblue&white
04-05-2014, 08:50 PM
Where's Tim? It'd be better if they could pan to him as well.

CRL
04-05-2014, 08:52 PM
Reims is done

Feyd
04-05-2014, 08:52 PM
WTF was Reimer doing on that one? Totally swimming.

MindzEye
04-05-2014, 08:52 PM
That wasn't a good sequence defensively...but why was Reimer on his stomache when the puck went in? All he had to do was come across and be big. No rush.

Volcanologist
04-05-2014, 08:52 PM
Reimer doing his best breast stroke in the crease, another killer goal against.

Leafin'
04-05-2014, 08:54 PM
What a garbage goal.

Reimer has been junk tonight.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 08:54 PM
7 mln dollar pussy who is also our C

Lucky us.

Leafin'
04-05-2014, 09:15 PM
reimer... junk with the puck

ForeverTML
04-05-2014, 09:27 PM
one of the worst looking PPs Ive ever seen. This team cant get a clear shot and makes soo many goddamn mistakes.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 09:28 PM
Kuly really really sucks. Oh my lord he is totally useless.

ForeverTML
04-05-2014, 09:39 PM
WOW, I was going to say that that was the worst 6 minutes of leaf hockey Ive ever watched, then I thought of the 100 other times we've been hemmed in our own zone looking like a beer league team.

Ranger sucks, mcclemment sucks, franson sucks but Randy keeps putting them on. ****ing guy is gone insane.

CRL
04-05-2014, 09:40 PM
WOW, I was going to say that that was the worst 6 minutes of leaf hockey Ive ever watched, then I thought of the 100 other times we've been hemmed in our own zone looking like a beer league team.

Ranger sucks, mcclemment sucks, franson sucks but Randy keeps putting them on. ****ing guy is gone insane.

out-coached again

CRL
04-05-2014, 09:43 PM
so Jets decided to shoot the puck on PP and look what happened

ForeverTML
04-05-2014, 09:47 PM
Well Im just glad this is the last home game that this godawful coaching staff is going to stand behind the bench for.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 09:48 PM
Oh Kadri, you make it tough to support you.

Feyd
04-05-2014, 09:48 PM
7.5 minutes without a shot in that period. Embarrassing.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 09:56 PM
7.5 minutes without a shot in that period. Embarrassing.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-it-s-all-part-of-the-plan-2.png

CRL
04-05-2014, 10:21 PM
done

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 10:29 PM
Yeah **** that, this team is a disorganized mess.

Feyd
04-05-2014, 10:35 PM
See ya Randy. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-05-2014, 10:48 PM
Boo'ed off the ice, how fitting. Nonis looks pissed and Timmy Lew was in attendance and did not looked impressed.

ForeverTML
04-05-2014, 10:51 PM
nah, if Nonis and Lieweke had half a brain, they would have made up their mind to fire the entire coaching staff many games ago - maybe after the seasons over. Not sure if they had to wait for the inevitable playoff bust game.

soco22
04-05-2014, 10:58 PM
Prob better to wait...more selection of GM and coaches in offseason.

Leafin'
04-05-2014, 11:41 PM
Gretzky- President Of Hockey Operations
Nicholson- General Manager
Mike Babcock- Head Coach (Leiweke factor, ie Brinks truck on both Red Wings and Babcocks door)

Leafyblue
04-05-2014, 11:46 PM
3 pages on a Saturday night. wow. Even the fans have given up.

Pronger84
04-05-2014, 11:54 PM
Gretzky- President Of Hockey Operations
Nicholson- General Manager
Mike Babcock- Head Coach (Leiweke factor, ie Brinks truck on both Red Wings and Babcocks door)

One glitch in your plan, Babcock is stlll the coach and we would need Detroit's permission to talk to him otherwise it's tampering. Besides, I highly doubt he leaves Detroit to come here, wishful thinking.

Bleedsblue&white
04-05-2014, 11:58 PM
Firing the staff is one thing, I wonder how they can deal with whoever is dragging the room down?
Can they try a season with Phaneuf just playing, no captaincy? Is it Lupul who has to go... I don't know, but we've already fired the staff, we gotta look at the team as well.

LeafGm
04-06-2014, 12:05 AM
3 pages on a Saturday night. wow. Even the fans have given up.
I haven't watched a Leaf game in two weeks now, myself.

I have no interest in watching this group of gutless losers limp across the finish line.

trujaysfan
04-06-2014, 12:09 AM
3 pages on a Saturday night. wow. Even the fans have given up.

had won 2 in a row on GDT so i started tonight's but my intention always was to go out and watch TFC. The leafs were done after the red wings loss for everyone except the mathematically challenged.

MindzEye
04-06-2014, 12:15 AM
Firing the staff is one thing, I wonder how they can deal with whoever is dragging the room down?
Can they try a season with Phaneuf just playing, no captaincy? Is it Lupul who has to go... I don't know, but we've already fired the staff, we gotta look at the team as well.

I think you have to give this core group another go without Randy's system. It's no coincidence that absolutely everyone in that room is putting up career worst possession numbers, by a wide margin. I think you trim the dead weight, add some quality veterans with size and skating ability to the group by trade/free agency and see what this group has under a new coach, new system.

Don't get me wrong, if Carolina is looking to do something stupid you make sure you're first in line, but failing that I think your best bet is to add to this group, not to blow it up. If they're still this same disjointed, shambolic mess in their own zone under a new coach, new system, then by all means start looking at ways to dismantle it some, but I have a hard time believing that everyone on this team forgot how to play possession or defensive hockey all at the same time.

I don't buy the "dumb players" thing either. Good systems make decision making easy, our system seems predicated on making every little play a bit harder. Hanging onto the puck a bit longer, making longer passes, etc.

Habsy
04-06-2014, 12:32 AM
We will **** the Jets up and hopefully the Habs can do us a favour and beat the wings. I am still hoping for 7th.

Habs did their part.

Volcanologist
04-06-2014, 12:46 AM
Hell of a contrast between Bolland's postgame comments and our captain's. The guy with two Cup rings thought we got outworked by a hungrier team, and Dion didn't.

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 12:53 AM
Yea interesting interviews. The defence definitely needs work. But do you get rid of Phaneuf? That'd be a really bold move.

A team like Edmonton would love to have a player like him, especially since he's locked up for the next 7 years. NOt sure where else we'd be able to get full value. Kinda BS how we have a core of guys locked up for the foreseeable future that are incredibly flawed.

Im not on the trade Phaneuf wagon as of yet, and would much prefer to see we add a player of Phaneuf's ilk to play with him. I am pro-Leafs though, and i am in for moving anyone and everyone so long as the team improves.

Leafyblue
04-06-2014, 01:27 AM
Does Dion willingly give up the C to somebody else?

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 02:45 AM
Yea interesting interviews. The defence definitely needs work. But do you get rid of Phaneuf? That'd be a really bold move.

A team like Edmonton would love to have a player like him, especially since he's locked up for the next 7 years. NOt sure where else we'd be able to get full value. Kinda BS how we have a core of guys locked up for the foreseeable future that are incredibly flawed.

Im not on the trade Phaneuf wagon as of yet, and would much prefer to see we add a player of Phaneuf's ilk to play with him. I am pro-Leafs though, and i am in for moving anyone and everyone so long as the team improves.

Here's the problem people aren't grasping- If we trade Phaneuf who steps up to play his (25-30 mins) a night effectively? Franson? No he's slow as molasses out there. Gardiner? Too much of a wildchild out there Rielly? He's got the potential but lets remember he's just 20 years old and I don't think he's ready to go up against the big boys of the league every game just yet, maybe 2-3 years down the road but not now. Keeping Phaneuf makes the most sense, while he does have his warts he has done a good job at playing against some tough opposition, I'd rather try to find a guy who can play with him (ala Girondo) then trade him leaving a black hole on our back end.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 09:37 AM
I think you have to give this core group another go without Randy's system. It's no coincidence that absolutely everyone in that room is putting up career worst possession numbers, by a wide margin. I think you trim the dead weight, add some quality veterans with size and skating ability to the group by trade/free agency and see what this group has under a new coach, new system.

Don't get me wrong, if Carolina is looking to do something stupid you make sure you're first in line, but failing that I think your best bet is to add to this group, not to blow it up. If they're still this same disjointed, shambolic mess in their own zone under a new coach, new system, then by all means start looking at ways to dismantle it some, but I have a hard time believing that everyone on this team forgot how to play possession or defensive hockey all at the same time.

I don't buy the "dumb players" thing either. Good systems make decision making easy, our system seems predicated on making every little play a bit harder. Hanging onto the puck a bit longer, making longer passes, etc.

You don't trade Kessel or JVR or Phaneuf, etc. There is no need to blow it up, but personnel is definitely an issue that you can't just ignore and fill some depth. Even last year they were a bottom seed team that lost in the first round. There is lots of room to improve high in the lineup, especially up the middle and on the blueline, whether they had this collapse or not.

BG
04-06-2014, 10:35 AM
Typical Leafs - win the big game that they are supposed to lose, and lose the games that they should win.

I was convinced at the beginning of the season that this would be a let-down season after finally making a play-off appearance last season. But early success pre-Olympics swayed me to believing that this roster was better than it is. I think a coaching change is in order - and the team needs to rebuild the 2nd and 3rd lines.

Killer93
04-06-2014, 10:37 AM
Not impressed at all with Phaneuf either; frankly whole team's play has been down right embarrassing and this GDT illustrates the frustration of the fan base. 3 pages on Saturday = fan based is tired of the same old shit of collapsing late season

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 11:08 AM
Phaneuf completely collapsed. He was terrible.

I defend the guy a lot but you can't defend his play when it mattered most. Makes that contract look worrisome.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 11:25 AM
Carlyle has completely misused Phaneuf and neutralized a huge part of his game.

The burden he places on the guy is ridiculous. You look at every other top dman in the league and none of them have to go up against that. Every team has a "shutdown pair" to ease the burden on their top guys and let them actually play hockey. And using him as the PP QB instead of the triggerman is another misuse. The guy is one of the best goalscorers from the blueline in the league and Carlyle has completely taken that weapon of his hands.

Of course a lot of blame has to go to Nonis as well because Carlyle doesn't have a lot of options on the blueline.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 11:30 AM
QoC rel Corsi
1. Phaneuf 2.150
2. Gunnar 2.010
3. Josi 1.938
4. Weber 1.844
5. Hjalmersson 1.744
6. Oduya 1.700
7. Carlson 1.622
8. Hedja 1.596
9. Chara 1.577
10. OEL 1.528

Other than the small sample size last year, typically no one is over 2.000. The only one close is Weber and Josi and they are in the same position as the Leafs. A bunch of young dmen that they can't rely on and they didn't have a good year.

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 11:38 AM
Carlyle has to go.

BeLeafer
04-06-2014, 11:48 AM
Carlyle misuses a ton of players. I wouldn't read much of anything into any of these guys until they get a competent coaching staff.

Leafyblue
04-06-2014, 11:48 AM
I'm sure he's already talked to his real estate agent.

Habsy
04-06-2014, 12:06 PM
Hell of a contrast between Bolland's postgame comments and our captain's. The guy with two Cup rings thought we got outworked by a hungrier team, and Dion didn't.

Many have said it before, Phaneuf shouldn't be your captain.

He should resign the C and have someone with serious character take it. In a town like Toronto you need a strong captain.

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 12:07 PM
THe "C" means very little these days. It doesn't matter.

Habsy
04-06-2014, 12:10 PM
So you think. It does matter. If you don't think players watch the way their captain deals with things and plays you're wrong. A player can always hide behind " well the captain does it" crap.

Players are human. The C is important.

Even if you are correct, if the C doesn't matter then where is the leadership on the team? The only time the C doesn't matter is when you have a weak leading captain.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 12:35 PM
The C doesn't really matter. One guy can only do so much.

They do need a better leadership group than Phaneuf, Lupul and McClement though.

Bleedsblue&white
04-06-2014, 12:59 PM
Carlyle misuses a ton of players. I wouldn't read much of anything into any of these guys until they get a competent coaching staff.

Some of these guys, we've already tried the new coach thing, I am afraid there is some bad blood on the team.

Bleedsblue&white
04-06-2014, 01:04 PM
If we hadn't brought Randynin to fix Wilson's mess I wouldn't be as concerned about personnel.I'd love to see Dion play without the captaincy, but we have now been let down in some pretty big situations... Why?

Volcanologist
04-06-2014, 01:13 PM
exactly. and I don't see any coach succeeding with a team that lays the kind of egg the Leafs did on home ice last night. 40+ shots from a non-playoff squad that had already been eliminated, when you're allegedy fighting for your playoff lives?

As for Dion I don't see him being stripped of the C, he'll continue the long tradition of traded Leaf captains before that happens.

GEEMAN
04-06-2014, 02:09 PM
QoC rel Corsi
1. Phaneuf 2.150
2. Gunnar 2.010
3. Josi 1.938
4. Weber 1.844
5. Hjalmersson 1.744
6. Oduya 1.700
7. Carlson 1.622
8. Hedja 1.596
9. Chara 1.577
10. OEL 1.528

Other than the small sample size last year, typically no one is over 2.000. The only one close is Weber and Josi and they are in the same position as the Leafs. A bunch of young dmen that they can't rely on and they didn't have a good year.

please explain these numbers and what it means

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 02:10 PM
Quality of competition. Phaneuf plays the toughest minutes in the entire NHl.

Metalleaf
04-06-2014, 02:11 PM
That's probably why he's so gassed right now.

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 02:16 PM
Yeah, that's becoming a real issue. He looks gassed so much. That game 7 in Boston last year Carlyle killed him. Enough with leaning on the guy so much. Get him help.

GEEMAN
04-06-2014, 02:18 PM
Phaneuf completely collapsed. He was terrible.

I defend the guy a lot but you can't defend his play when it mattered most. Makes that contract look worrisome.

His NTC doesnt kick in til next year. What we dont know is will Lieweke stay patient and stay the course or go nuts and try to rip this team apart from GM , coach to massive player personnel .

As for Dion feel bad for the guy , too much pressure to be the man when he should be a Seabrook second banana to a stud .

Feyd
04-06-2014, 02:22 PM
His NTC doesnt kick in til next year. What we dont know is will Lieweke stay patient and stay the course or go nuts and try to rip this team apart from GM , coach to massive player personnel .

As for Dion feel bad for the guy , too much pressure to be the man when he should be a Seabrook second banana to a stud .
Hard to feel THAT bad for him considering his salary, but yeah, he does get shit on a lot by the masses (otherwise known as witless Leaf fans), which has only been magnified given his play since the Olympic break.

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 02:24 PM
Phaneuf can be a #1 if he gets proper help.

CH1
04-06-2014, 02:31 PM
It's an interesting juncture for sure as the latest slide has put a doubt in the 'we're on the right track' narrative. A pessimist can easily view the Leafs as a below average team held together by outstanding goaltending for most of the season.

The lack of effort last night is inexcusable. If I were a stakeholder (fan, owner, etc) I would want Phaneuf to at least acknowledge it - as most of his teammates did.

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 02:34 PM
The Leafs are below average no doubt. They have some nice pieces to turn it around quick. That said, they have to be the right moves.

I still think it's time for a defense-oriented coach.

Metalleaf
04-06-2014, 02:35 PM
That's what Carlyle was supposed to be but this team isn't good enough to play that style.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 02:40 PM
Phaneuf is a #1. He's done a phenomenal job with the situation he has been put in.

His GAon/60 is 2.65. His GAoff/60 is 2.59.

So basically he plays against the other teams best players every single shift and doesn't give up any more goals than the rest of the team playing against 2nd/3rd/4th liners.

His offensive zone starts is 39.4% and his offensive zone finishes are 46.1%.

THe guy gets put in an unwinable situation and has done a really good job. Any guy placed in those kind of situations that consistently is going to make mistakes and give up goals.

Between him and Rielly the Leafs have two amazing dmen. Its the rest that are the problem. Not Phaneuf.

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 02:43 PM
That's what Carlyle was supposed to be but this team isn't good enough to play that style.

I don't even see an attempt to make the team better defensively.

Metalleaf
04-06-2014, 02:49 PM
Between him and Rielly the Leafs have two amazing dmen. Its the rest that are the problem. Not Phaneuf.

Yep, the core needs an overhaul.

Bleedsblue&white
04-06-2014, 02:55 PM
If Phaneuf is a leader then he is in question. After two seasons of collapses, the leaders have to fall on their swords. Doesn't mean he has to go, but the guys in charge have to take responsibility.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 03:08 PM
Does he get any credit for leading the team back from a 3-1 deficit against a team that had dominated them for years?

Truth is Phaneuf is a young guy, not some savvy vet with a ton of experience. He's failed at times, but he also has succeeded too.

You can't just expect a 25 year old to get the C and know exactly how to handle every situation from the get go. He's learning on the job.

Bleedsblue&white
04-06-2014, 03:17 PM
That's why I'd like to see him play without the captaincy. I am well aware we have a young team and they will have some pimples, but we can do better than we did with the group we had, I believe.
Something happened...again.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 04:04 PM
That's what Carlyle was supposed to be but this team isn't good enough to play that style.

Agreed, but as easy as it is to say the team isn't good enough to fit his style, he wasn't smart enough to adapt to their strengths either... it works both ways. The Leafs aren't fit to play a crash and bang style, they aren't fit to play a cycle game due to lack of size/strength with their players either, why he insisted on that is beyond me.

The Leafs are built on speed, that is their main weapon. Instead of instructing his forwards to skate up to the blueline with the defense far back and attempting to force a stretch pass what should have been done is have the forwards come within 5-7 feet of the blueliners this way quick passes can be made while skating this limits the isolation and turnovers. As for defense, instead of sitting back idol in front of Bernier/Reimer they should be using their speed to attack the puck carrier, using said speed to force turnovers then go on a quick counter attack, why he never adapted to that is beyond me.

Metalleaf
04-06-2014, 04:53 PM
People will find whatever stupid ****ing reason to blame Phaneuf for anything. Just today somebody on twitter said they wanted Phaneuf traded because he didn't stay on the ice when Ranger got hit head first into the boards and was being stretchered off. They shut up pretty fast when I showed them a video of him being on the ice.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 05:04 PM
People will find whatever stupid ****ing reason to blame Phaneuf for anything. Just today somebody on twitter said they wanted Phaneuf traded because he didn't stay on the ice when Ranger got hit head first into the boards and was being stretchered off. They shut up pretty fast when I showed them a video of him being on the ice.

To be fair though, he did leave briefly before coming back out... then again so did several others. Phaneuf shouldn't be blamed for that incident though, that was a pretty ugly scene its plausible he needed a minute to compose himself before coming back out, no issues there.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 05:07 PM
Does he get any credit for leading the team back from a 3-1 deficit against a team that had dominated them for years?

Truth is Phaneuf is a young guy, not some savvy vet with a ton of experience. He's failed at times, but he also has succeeded too.

You can't just expect a 25 year old to get the C and know exactly how to handle every situation from the get go. He's learning on the job.

1. You could argue he played a role, but truth is we don't know what he said in the dressing room (if anything at all) none of us were there so who knows what actually went down

2. Phaneuf is NOT a young guy, he's 29 years old who is smack in the middle of his prime, he's not some spring chicken granted he's not a grizzly vet either

3. I thought it was idiotic of Burke to give Phaneuf the C just because he barged into the dressing room and changed the tunes.... it takes a lot more to be a captain then doing just that.

Wayward DP
04-06-2014, 05:21 PM
1. You could argue he played a role, but truth is we don't know what he said in the dressing room (if anything at all) none of us were there so who knows what actually went down

2. Phaneuf is NOT a young guy, he's 29 years old who is smack in the middle of his prime, he's not some spring chicken granted he's not a grizzly vet either

3. I thought it was idiotic of Burke to give Phaneuf the C just because he barged into the dressing room and changed the tunes.... it takes a lot more to be a captain then doing just that.

Read points 1 and 3. Then think carefully about point 3.

Habspatrol
04-06-2014, 05:40 PM
Does he get any credit for leading the team back from a 3-1 deficit against a team that had dominated them for years?

Truth is Phaneuf is a young guy, not some savvy vet with a ton of experience. He's failed at times, but he also has succeeded too.

You can't just expect a 25 year old to get the C and know exactly how to handle every situation from the get go. He's learning on the job.

29 years old with close to 700 games under his belt. He's been in the running for the Norris on multiple occasions and has been captain of his team for a couple years. That's about as veteran as it gets.

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 05:46 PM
Phaneuf isn't the problem on this team. We need another Phaneuf if anything.

MindzEye
04-06-2014, 06:23 PM
Remember when Bryan McCabe used to get villified in Toronto for only being a good #1 but not being Bobby ****ing Orr Part II?

Yeah, this is that, all over again. The Toronto media gets itself paid by bringing up retarded shit like this and criticizing our best players instead of our lack of insulation and support around our best players. We don't need to get rid of Phaneuf, we need more players he can lean on. I mean ****, look at media darling and impending Norris winner Duncan Keith...dude is paired with Seabrook and doesn't have to do the heavy lifting defensive as Hjalmarsson and Oduya handle the tough matchups. The Canadian hockey media won't stop jerking him off though, but Keith is insulated like a mother****er. Let's get Dion that type of help and wait for him to fail before we go talking about replacing him, mkay?

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 06:30 PM
Remember when Bryan McCabe used to get villified in Toronto for only being a good #1 but not being Bobby ****ing Orr Part II?

Yeah, this is that, all over again. The Toronto media gets itself paid by bringing up retarded shit like this and criticizing our best players instead of our lack of insulation and support around our best players. We don't need to get rid of Phaneuf, we need more players he can lean on. I mean ****, look at media darling and impending Norris winner Duncan Keith...dude is paired with Seabrook and doesn't have to do the heavy lifting defensive as Hjalmarsson and Oduya handle the tough matchups. The Canadian hockey media won't stop jerking him off though, but Keith is insulated like a mother****er. Let's get Dion that type of help and wait for him to fail before we go talking about replacing him, mkay?

Agree 100%.

Any ideas who would realistically fit that bill?

MindzEye
04-06-2014, 06:38 PM
Agree 100%.

Any ideas who would realistically fit that bill?

If we're interesting in putting our 1st rounder in play, Tyler Myers.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 06:56 PM
Phaneuf isn't the problem on this team. We need another Phaneuf if anything.

I'd have zero problems trading Phaneuf (I'm not infatuated by any player on this team) to address other needs BUT as it stands right now we don't have anyone who can play those 25ish mins a night against the leagues best players, so for now (key word for now) it makes more sense to keep Phaneuf. Now, if we can find a guy in the offseason who can play those tough minutes then 100% he becomes trade bait to help bolster this team, right now... nah lets just keep the guy until another option comes along.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 06:57 PM
If we're interesting in putting our 1st rounder in play, Tyler Myers.

He's a realistic option... just to throw another name out there how about Shattenkirk from the Blues?

Metalleaf
04-06-2014, 06:58 PM
If we're looking at D:

Marlies: Percy, Granberg, Brennan

UFAs: Niskanen, Schultz, Greene, Robidas, Orpik

Trade: Myers, Giordano(doubtful), Wideman, Kulikov, Yandle

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 07:01 PM
If we're looking at D:

Marlies: Percy, Granberg, Brennan

UFAs: Niskanen, Schultz, Greene, Robidas, Orpik

Trade: Myers, Giordano(doubtful), Wideman, Kulikov, Yandle

If we're talking top pairing D the I think you can rule out the Marlies players, as well as pretty much everyone else not named Myers and Giorando. The rest range from #4-to depth defencmen.

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 07:03 PM
Is Tyler Myers that good? He'd got size and skating, but how is he defensively? We need guys to play defence.

Phaneuf - Myers as a pairing, how would that look? or would he be better placed with a guy like Rielly on the second pair? Kinda expensive for the 2nd pair no?

Metalleaf
04-06-2014, 07:03 PM
None of the guys I listed in the trade section are depth defencemen. But the team needs an overhaul on the blueline.

Phaneuf-Rielly
Myers/Wideman-Percy
Gleason-Gardiner

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 07:06 PM
None of the guys I listed in the trade section are depth defencemen. But the team needs an overhaul on the blueline.

Phaneuf-Rielly
Myers/Wideman-Percy
Gleason-Gardiner

I agree it needs an overhaul on the blueline, but eek a Phaneuf-Rielly pairing? I dunno man... as much as I think Rielly will be an exceptional player he's also just 20 years old and I'm not so sure he's ready to face the other teams best players night in and night out. Have to admit though I do like the Gleason-Gardiner pairing, their styles mesh perfectly.

Metalleaf
04-06-2014, 07:07 PM
Rielly has been our best defenceman at times this season, he's already better than Gunnar, Gards, Gleason, Franson, and Ranger.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 07:10 PM
Rielly has been our best defenceman at times this season, he's already better than Gunnar, Gards, Gleason, Franson, and Ranger.

At times? Sure, but keep in mind he's been on the 2nd pairing all season, again not a knock against Rielly (he's been exceptional this year) but there is a huge difference between the competition the mid pairings face vs the ones the top pairings face.

I wouldn't be opposed to putting him out there on the top pairing for the rest of the season though, playoff hopes are shot to hell anyways, now would be the ideal time to give him a test run on Phaneuf's arm for next 3.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 07:25 PM
Rielly is a stud. He's going to be our best player pretty soon.

And just say no to paying big money on the UFA market for 2nd liners/2nd pairing dmen. Just go after the top guys, and the bargains. No more Komi's and Clarksons. You can't build a team on the UFA market with a cap.

MindzEye
04-06-2014, 07:33 PM
Is Tyler Myers that good? He'd got size and skating, but how is he defensively? We need guys to play defence.

Phaneuf - Myers as a pairing, how would that look? or would he be better placed with a guy like Rielly on the second pair? Kinda expensive for the 2nd pair no?

Is he that good now? No.

His potential is limitless though...like Zdeno Chara with elite skating. At 24 yrs old, Myers > Chara fwiw

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 07:34 PM
Reimer + Franson for Evander Kane

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Kane - Kadri - Lupul

Offensively a great top-6, but defensively?

LeafGm
04-06-2014, 07:35 PM
They should be shopping Lupul this summer. Especially if they can get their hands on Evander Kane.

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 07:40 PM
Lupul this time last year was next in line for the captaincy. Lets not fall into the "what have you done for me lately" crowd. He's been a really good player for us. It'd be a shame to ship off Lupul because we kept a slug like Clarkson at the same money.

We may not have much choice though.

leafman101
04-06-2014, 07:41 PM
Trading for Kane makes no sense with JVR, Kessel and Lupul. Its just a waste of assets. You can't just go after every player you want. You need to have a plan.

The Leafs have way bigger holes in other areas.

If you want another winger you go to free agency with Vanek, Iginla or Jagr where you won't have to give up a guy like Kadri, Gardiner, or JVR to get them.

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 07:55 PM
It all depends on cost with Kane.

Im not sure how we can improve the club down the middle without moving out either Kadri or Bozak. Neither are ideal #1 & #2 Centermen. As good as Bozak has been, he is more along the lines of a 2-3, while Kadri is too inconsistent to play on the top line. Kadri is also atrocious in the defensive zone. The Ribeiro comparisons are looking to be pretty much on the money. I'm not sure about you guys, but i wouldn't want Ribeiro on my team in any capacity. A good offensive option, but weak as an all around player. We need more guys that play all 3 zones.

A lot of question marks.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 08:01 PM
It all depends on cost with Kane.

Im not sure how we can improve the club down the middle without moving out either Kadri or Bozak. Neither are ideal #1 & #2 Centermen. As good as Bozak has been, he is more along the lines of a 2-3, while Kadri is too inconsistent to play on the top line. Kadri is also atrocious in the defensive zone. The Ribeiro comparisons are looking to be pretty much on the money. I'm not sure about you guys, but i wouldn't want Ribeiro on my team in any capacity. A good offensive option, but weak as an all around player. We need more guys that play all 3 zones.

A lot of question marks.

I have no beef with Kadri as the 2C, he played at a 73 point pace last season and he has 50 points this season inspite of a streaky Lupul and that plug Clarkson, his offensive totals are decent. As for being atrocious defensively that's a fair assessment but keep in mind Yzerman and Modano were stinkworthy in their own end early in their careers but both molded themselves into being elite 2 way players..... with experience and the right coach to teach Kadri defense he too can be that type of player... just needs time.

rated
04-06-2014, 08:19 PM
How good is Kane on the defensive end ? Cause this team doesn't need any more cherry picking forwards. We need people who know what defense means and how to get the ****ing puck out of their zone the first ****ing time.

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 08:22 PM
I'd wager he isn't good at all. Probably the reason he's been benched.

rated
04-06-2014, 08:24 PM
Well the 2 goals in 18 games I think it was + that silly little lawsuit on the side might of played a bigger part lol

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 08:30 PM
How good is Kane on the defensive end ? Cause this team doesn't need any more cherry picking forwards. We need people who know what defense means and how to get the ****ing puck out of their zone the first ****ing time.

He's a -9 this season, yea I know its not a stat to rely heavily on, that's the only thing I could find on the guy... I'll be the first to admit I don't watch the Jets closely so I really don't know how well/bad he is in his own end.

Guys like Zeke and Mindz will be able to give u a much better answer then I can give on this.

Wayward DP
04-06-2014, 08:32 PM
Lupul this time last year was next in line for the captaincy. Lets not fall into the "what have you done for me lately" crowd. He's been a really good player for us. It'd be a shame to ship off Lupul because we kept a slug like Clarkson at the same money.

We may not have much choice though.

Not to excuse his suckiness, because he has not been up to snuff, but I'm fairly certain Loops has been battling injuries most of the year.

Of course, that seems to be a perpetual problem with him, which is troubling in its own right.

JackBurton
04-06-2014, 08:49 PM
If we want to improve, the first rounder needs to be sacrificed IMO.

soco22
04-06-2014, 08:54 PM
If we want to improve, the first rounder needs to be sacrificed IMO.

Or pick someone with upside?

We could be picking as high as 7th or 8th if we lose out.

We aren't winning next year - this pick could step in the following year and make an impact.

Pronger84
04-06-2014, 08:56 PM
If we want to improve, the first rounder needs to be sacrificed IMO.

Yup, and I'd have no problems giving it up. Right now not many players on this team hold any worthwhile value outside of Kessel/JVR/Rielly/Phaneuf/Bernier/Kadri and Gardiner, other then that your looking at getting mid to late draft picks and meh like prospects back

I don't think guys like Kessel/JVR/Bernier/Phaenuf are going anywhere which leaves guys like Kadri, Gardiner, our 1st to play with for trade material. Kadri's a good piece to dangle because he's 24 and on a very cheap contract, loads of teams would love to have a player like that. Gardiner can be a really good #4D on a team and he's still young with a cheap contract. The 1st would be enticing too...

Leafin'
04-06-2014, 09:12 PM
I wouldn't be too quick moving out the 1st rounder. Through the years we've given up too many of them. Anyone in the top-10 would be a healthy addition to our prospect pool.

Just no more of these "safe" picks.

Hoss
04-07-2014, 12:15 AM
I think Myers righ now would be just like when Boston got chara. Chara was made to look slow by buffalo in that playoff series and the sens went with redden. Chara developed from that point with good coaching and grew into his frame.

Getting Myers now would be buying low. Hopefully he gets that mean streak in him that propelled Chara into elite status. That's what Myers needs cuz he's a better skater than chara. But that meanness is what's missing from his game to make him a better defender

mbow30
04-07-2014, 12:25 AM
I think Myers righ now would be just like when Boston got chara. Chara was made to look slow by buffalo in that playoff series and the sens went with redden. Chara developed from that point with good coaching and grew into his frame.

Getting Myers now would be buying low. Hopefully he gets that mean streak in him that propelled Chara into elite status. That's what Myers needs cuz he's a better skater than chara. But that meanness is what's missing from his game to make him a better defender

more like when ottawa got him, since they didn't really know what they were getting.

chara was still an elite norris caliber defenseman when he left ottawa.

with myers, it's unlcear if he has room to grow, if he needs a change of scenery or if his first few seasons were an aberration. it also might a case of overrating his defensive work (or looking over those shortcomings) because he put up such good numbers.

i'd take a shot on myers, but there' s a lot of risk there. he's still going to cost a team something considerable in a trade, and he's guaranteed big money on a long term deal, with it unclear whether he'll actually be able to bring the value his contract demands.

LeafGm
04-07-2014, 01:16 AM
more like when ottawa got him, since they didn't really know what they were getting.

chara was still an elite norris caliber defenseman when he left ottawa.

with myers, it's unlcear if he has room to grow, if he needs a change of scenery or if his first few seasons were an aberration. it also might a case of overrating his defensive work (or looking over those shortcomings) because he put up such good numbers.

i'd take a shot on myers, but there' s a lot of risk there. he's still going to cost a team something considerable in a trade, and he's guaranteed big money on a long term deal, with it unclear whether he'll actually be able to bring the value his contract demands.
Myers is signed for the next 5 seasons at $5.5M per season.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 01:21 AM
Is there a big defenseman anyone can think of that didn't take a bunch of years to put it all together? Chara was 25, Hedman just sorted it out for the first time at 23. Pronger was considered a bit of a bust until 24-25 years old.

If you're going to gamble on someone, gamble on the 6'8 230 pound kid who skates like the ****ing wind.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 01:21 AM
Myers is signed for the next 5 seasons at $5.5M per season.

Potential for awesome value there.

gilmour93forever
04-07-2014, 01:40 AM
Reimer + Franson for Evander Kane

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Kane - Kadri - Lupul

Offensively a great top-6, but defensively?

You know that Kane didn't play Saturday night because he was out all night partying on Friday night, right?

Kid can play, but he is TERRIBLY immature.

mbow30
04-07-2014, 08:28 AM
Myers is signed for the next 5 seasons at $5.5M per season.

hence him being "guaranteed big money on a long term deal"

mbow30
04-07-2014, 08:31 AM
Is there a big defenseman anyone can think of that didn't take a bunch of years to put it all together? Chara was 25, Hedman just sorted it out for the first time at 23. Pronger was considered a bit of a bust until 24-25 years old.

If you're going to gamble on someone, gamble on the 6'8 230 pound kid who skates like the ****ing wind.

pronger was not considered a bust. he was traded for shanahan at 20, went to st. louis and was their premier shut down defenseman.

the only comparison is chara, who took a while to figure it out. but, chara didn't learn to skate until he was 25. skating is and always has been myers' best asset.

he's a guy worht gambling on given taht he's already flashed some of the upside.

but he's beyond a point where he can be compared to guys like pronger and hedman.

JackBurton
04-07-2014, 01:07 PM
I say go for Myers. He is young and signed long-term. There really isn't a lot of options out there.

Bleedsblue&white
04-07-2014, 01:28 PM
As awful as things feel right now, I still don't believe this team is far off...at all.
Edmonton is young and supposedly with more star power, yet they're still grinding their gears. We just need a little shakeup with the staff, I will continue to say we should strip Phaneuf of the captaincy...I wish we could afford the patience with Franson, but we need less mistakes in our end.

We need a smarter D or two, and lose a forward or two and replace with with players that care...should be good to go.

mbow30
04-07-2014, 01:31 PM
I think the best comparison for Myers is Bouwmeester. Maybe the offensive expectations need to be lowered, and they need to start limiting his risk taking with the puck...

Which, frankly, is kind of perfect for Toronto, since it would have to occur out of necessity.

soco22
04-07-2014, 01:57 PM
I think the best comparison for Myers is Bouwmeester. Maybe the offensive expectations need to be lowered, and they need to start limiting his risk taking with the puck...

Which, frankly, is kind of perfect for Toronto, since it would have to occur out of necessity.

Was thinking the same thing. If you put him with a gardiner type - he could focus on defense and could develop into a great shutdown guy that plays 2nd unit PP time when needed. Would be an Amazing replacement for franson.

leafman101
04-07-2014, 02:02 PM
His skill set is unique enough that it is definitely worth taking a chance on.

Bouwmeester is a good comparison. Even if the offense never materializes again, a big guy that can skate can still be a huge impact player. Although he's not as good of a skater as Bouwmeester.

JackBurton
04-07-2014, 02:10 PM
I guess the first rounder would go if we get Myers? Or is his value lower (It should be, but likely isn't).

LeafGm
04-07-2014, 02:13 PM
hence him being "guaranteed big money on a long term deal"
Sorry, I misread your post---somehow I got the idea that you were saying he was going to need to be re-signed for big money.

As for the contract, it's definitely something to have some concern about, but it's not an unreasonable contract---especially in an NHL where guys like Liles and Gleason can pull down four million per season. We'd need Myers to at the very least be a great second pairing defenseman for us, or the contract would be ugly. If he's any better than that, then all of a sudden it would be a steal.

Cojo
04-07-2014, 03:39 PM
I guess the first rounder would go if we get Myers? Or is his value lower (It should be, but likely isn't).

I'd be surprised... i mean, its not like he's contract friendly at the moment which can't help his value.

It would be nice to keep the 1st anyway.

Wayward DP
04-07-2014, 04:35 PM
Franson for Myers could be a starting point.

mbow30
04-07-2014, 04:36 PM
Was thinking the same thing. If you put him with a gardiner type - he could focus on defense and could develop into a great shutdown guy that plays 2nd unit PP time when needed. Would be an Amazing replacement for franson.

if you want to develop a young defenseman... keep him the hell away from gardiner.

mbow30
04-07-2014, 04:37 PM
Franson for Myers could be a starting point.

not a chance. franson may be a suitable throw in.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 04:47 PM
not a chance. franson may be a suitable throw in.

Yea.... I'm thinking the starting point would be our 1st rounder given that Buffalo is in full blown rebuild mold. I'm not sure what else they would want on top, but we would have to throw more in such as a Franson or decent prospect.

mbow30
04-07-2014, 04:48 PM
to be perfectly honest, in a package for myers they're probably going to want to start with gardiner. other than gardiner or the team's first i'm not sure there's much in the system to tempt buffalo. maybe finn, but that might be a long shot.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 04:52 PM
to be perfectly honest, in a package for myers they're probably going to want to start with gardiner. other than gardiner or the team's first i'm not sure there's much in the system to tempt buffalo. maybe finn, but that might be a long shot.

Would they have interest in Kadri?

Volcanologist
04-07-2014, 04:57 PM
yeah, a gardiner-myers swap could make some sense. They're not going to trade young guys for old guys in their situation.

leafman101
04-07-2014, 04:58 PM
The first actually would be a pretty good asset to get a guy like Myers. You look at the Carter/Richards/Staal deals and they all got a top 10 pick and a solid young player. If we are picking in the 8-10 range I think that would be attractive to a lot of teams.

And with names like Kesler, Myers and Staal out there. Hopefully its good timing.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 05:01 PM
How would this be for a fair deal?

To Buffalo: Holland, Franson, 1st

To Toronto: Meyers, 2nd.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
04-07-2014, 05:28 PM
How would this be for a fair deal?

To Buffalo: Holland, Franson, 1st

To Toronto: Meyers, 2nd.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9nk9wbCxI1qfrrv2o1_500.png

Feyd
04-07-2014, 05:42 PM
I'd consider a deal centered around Gardiner for Myers (as the key pieces).

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 05:46 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9nk9wbCxI1qfrrv2o1_500.png

I was merely putting out a suggestion, I'd love to hear what YOU think we should offer up Buffalo.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 05:46 PM
I'd rather give up this 1st than Gardiner

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 05:47 PM
I'd rather give up this 1st than Gardiner

I have no problems giving up Gardiner BUT not for a defencemen who has struggled these past few years... I'd rather use Gardiner in a package to get a 2nd line winger or even part of a deal to land a 1C.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 05:55 PM
2nd line winger is something you sign or get for cheaper than Gardiner in cost. For example, Vrbata or Jagr are UFA's in a few months and Chris Stewart would be a pretty easy get out of Buffalo. Any of the 3 would fill that role on the 2nd line really well.

I'm usually not a fan of giving up high 1st round picks, but if the choice is giving up a 10-12 pick or giving up a young NHL defender who has shown stretches of dominance and impact play....I'll trade that 1st.

If we look at the 10-12 picks made from 2004-2010: Valabik, Tukonen, Thelen, Bourdon, Kopitar, M Staal, Frolik, Bernier, Little, Ellerby, Sutter, McDonagh, Hodgson, Beach, Myers, MPS, Ellis, De Haan, McIlrath, Campbell, Fowler

There's way more outright busts than studs on that list and even among the non misses only a few that you'd trade Gardiner for a chance, but no guarantee to get.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 06:12 PM
2nd line winger is something you sign or get for cheaper than Gardiner in cost. For example, Vrbata or Jagr are UFA's in a few months and Chris Stewart would be a pretty easy get out of Buffalo. Any of the 3 would fill that role on the 2nd line really well.

I'm usually not a fan of giving up high 1st round picks, but if the choice is giving up a 10-12 pick or giving up a young NHL defender who has shown stretches of dominance and impact play....I'll trade that 1st.

If we look at the 10-12 picks made from 2004-2010: Valabik, Tukonen, Thelen, Bourdon, Kopitar, M Staal, Frolik, Bernier, Little, Ellerby, Sutter, McDonagh, Hodgson, Beach, Myers, MPS, Ellis, De Haan, McIlrath, Campbell, Fowler

There's way more outright busts than studs on that list and even among the non misses only a few that you'd trade Gardiner for a chance, but no guarantee to get.

I wouldn't be opposed to Stewart coming here, he's got all the tools to be a potential powerfoward. Jagr? No thanks... dude is 42 and while he still has some gas in the tank he's at best a short term solution, not a long term one. Iginla I would love to sign in the offseason but given that he's 37, he wants to win a cup and I don't think he views the Leafs as a contender... odds are he signs with a team like LA or Anahiem in the offseason... hell he'd resign with Boston before coming here.

I think Myers is the best bet to fix our blueline, even though he's been struggling the guy has all the potential to be elite that he's worth taking a gamble on.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 06:16 PM
Jagr? No thanks... dude is 42 and while he still has some gas in the tank he's at best a short term solution, not a long term one.

Why would a short term solution be worse than a long term one for next season? Long term solutions require putting aside large chunks of cap space long into the future. The cap flexibility that a guy like Jagr brings is extremely valuable. If it works out and he has enough for another go at it, awesome. If he doesn't, or does and wants to retire, you take that cap and reallocate it. The desire for long term solutions to everything is lazy. In a capped environment, flexibility is extremely important.

leafman101
04-07-2014, 06:29 PM
Short term solutions for 2nd/3rd liners are ideal with a cap.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 06:31 PM
Why would a short term solution be worse than a long term one for next season? Long term solutions require putting aside large chunks of cap space long into the future. The cap flexibility that a guy like Jagr brings is extremely valuable. If it works out and he has enough for another go at it, awesome. If he doesn't, or does and wants to retire, you take that cap and reallocate it. The desire for long term solutions to everything is lazy. In a capped environment, flexibility is extremely important.

I have no problems inking a guy to a 2-3 year deal, but it has to make sense not just in the short scheme of things but the long run as well. Jagr still has a bit of magic but the key thing to remember the guy is 42 and how many more years does he have of good hockey in him, how long before he decides to lace them up? I'll say this though anyone at this point would be an upgrade on Clarkson on the 2nd line, so if I had a choice between him or Jagr it would be Jagr, however if I'm looking for the most ideal option for the 2nd line wing position Jagr wouldn't exactly be at the top of my list either.

Wayward DP
04-07-2014, 06:37 PM
I have no problems inking a guy to a 2-3 year deal, but it has to make sense not just in the short scheme of things but the long run as well. Jagr still has a bit of magic but the key thing to remember the guy is 42 and how many more years does he have of good hockey in him, how long before he decides to lace them up? I'll say this though anyone at this point would be an upgrade on Clarkson on the 2nd line, so if I had a choice between him or Jagr it would be Jagr, however if I'm looking for the most ideal option for the 2nd line wing position Jagr wouldn't exactly be at the top of my list either.

Jagr's New Jersey's leading scorer. He still has it. You can count the UFAs who would be a better fit on our second line on one hand. And even then, it may only be Iginla.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 06:39 PM
but it has to make sense not just in the short scheme of things but the long run as well.

No, it doesn't. Or more accurately, nothing makes more sense than having access to cap space over the long run. If you jump from good short term move to good short term move, that is better than any other outcome aside from a cheaper, better, long term move.

You're over rating the importance of having a roster slot filled for the long term, and under rating what cap flexibility allows you to do.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 06:44 PM
No, it doesn't. Or more accurately, nothing makes more sense than having access to cap space over the long run. If you jump from good short term move to good short term move, that is better than any other outcome aside from a cheaper, better, long term move.

You're over rating the importance of having a roster slot filled for the long term, and under rating what cap flexibility allows you to do.

I agree with you short term flexibility is better then lets say a 10-12 year contract, I think we have different ideas of what short term is though which where our ideoliges differentiate. A 2-3 year deal IMO is short term, then again so is a 1 year deal... I guess what I'm trying to say is the player has to make sense as well as term and IMO Jagr at 42 even on a one year contract to me doesn't make sense and is poor asset managment. We have the skill on this team, I think we can agree on that, what we need is a powerforward-esque player prefably to play on the 2nd line and a guy like Stewart or Iginla would make a lot more sense on the 2nd line then a skilled guy like Jagr, again that's just my preference though.

Wayward DP
04-07-2014, 07:01 PM
I agree with you short term flexibility is better then lets say a 10-12 year contract, I think we have different ideas of what short term is though which where our ideoliges differentiate. A 2-3 year deal IMO is short term, then again so is a 1 year deal... I guess what I'm trying to say is the player has to make sense as well as term and IMO Jagr at 42 even on a one year contract to me doesn't make sense and is poor asset managment. We have the skill on this team, I think we can agree on that, what we need is a powerforward-esque player prefably to play on the 2nd line and a guy like Stewart or Iginla would make a lot more sense on the 2nd line then a skilled guy like Jagr, again that's just my preference though.

When was the last time you watched Jagr play?

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 07:07 PM
When was the last time you watched Jagr play?

The last time me watching Jagr play is 100% irrelevant to this conversation. This has nothing to do with Jagr being skilled either, it has to do with him being 42 years old and nearing the end of his rope, it has to do with already having enough talent on this team and it has to do with adding more substance to our 2nd line, prebarbly a lot younger then Jagr and on a short term contract.

leafman101
04-07-2014, 07:10 PM
Jagr is a good guy to have around for a young team. I think a guy like that is exactly what they need.

Why does every player on the team have to be young and inexperienced?

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 07:11 PM
Jagr is a good guy to have around for a young team. I think a guy like that is exactly what they need.

Why does every player on the team have to be young and inexperienced?

They don't... but they also don't need to be 42 years old either... my ideal veteran to have on this team would be Iginla but odds of him signing here are next to nil.

Wayward DP
04-07-2014, 07:19 PM
The last time me watching Jagr play is 100% irrelevant to this conversation. This has nothing to do with Jagr being skilled either, it has to do with him being 42 years old and nearing the end of his rope, it has to do with already having enough talent on this team and it has to do with adding more substance to our 2nd line, prebarbly a lot younger then Jagr and on a short term contract.

Not when you're making inaccurate judgments about the quality of player he is, then it becomes very relevant. You seem to have no idea just how good Jagr still is.

And "prebarbly" is not a word. Or close to one.

And Jagr would only want a 1-year contract.

**** man, it's like you're bloody clueless as to the dude's career the past several years.

And, finally, I do not understand how you can argue against this team needing, or at the very least benefitting from, some veteran leadership (i.e. Jagr).

So far, your objections to bringing in Jagr seem to be founded entirely in a) not having any idea the quality or type of player Jagr currently is; and b) a bunch of mumbo-jumbo cliche crap with no factual basis.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 07:49 PM
Not when you're making inaccurate judgments about the quality of player he is, then it becomes very relevant. You seem to have no idea just how good Jagr still is.

And "prebarbly" is not a word. Or close to one.

And Jagr would only want a 1-year contract.

**** man, it's like you're bloody clueless as to the dude's career the past several years.

And, finally, I do not understand how you can argue against this team needing, or at the very least benefitting from, some veteran leadership (i.e. Jagr).

So far, your objections to bringing in Jagr seem to be founded entirely in a) not having any idea the quality or type of player Jagr currently is; and b) a bunch of mumbo-jumbo cliche crap with no factual basis.

1. I'm well aware of how good Jagr STILL is, he's still leading his team in scoring at his age which is remarkable. Just because I haven't seen him play recentley, doesn't mean I'm clueless about the guy's skill level.
2. Never denied Jagr wasn't skilled, what I said was we a) have enough skill on this team b) at 42 he doesn't have many more years left
3. It was a spelling error on my end
4. I never denied we don't need leadership, in fact we need a healthy injection of it... I'm just not sold on him being the right guy though, again that's just my opinion on the subject.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 08:43 PM
Two things

1) There's no such thing as too much skill on a hockey team. As it pertains to Jagr, he just doesn't bring pure skill though, he brings the ability to slow the game down and control it from the half boards, pretty much exactly what our skilled rush team is missing in the offensive zone

2) If Jagr is the wrong type of leadership, there's no right type of leadership. The guy is a living legend with the type of work ethic that has allowed him to stay a top line player when everyone not named Gordie Howe was either useless or retired.

I find it hilarious that you jerk yourself silly to "leaders" like Callahan because he throws his body around, but question the leadership of a 42 yr old, Cup winning, Hart Trophy winning, 7th in all time scoring (1 more season like this year and he'll only be looking up at Gretz, Messier, & Howe) living legend.

ForeverTML
04-07-2014, 09:14 PM
Would have been epic to sign Jagr to that deal instead of he-who-shall-not-be-named. **** me NJ dodged that one.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 09:21 PM
Two things

1) There's no such thing as too much skill on a hockey team. As it pertains to Jagr, he just doesn't bring pure skill though, he brings the ability to slow the game down and control it from the half boards, pretty much exactly what our skilled rush team is missing in the offensive zone

2) If Jagr is the wrong type of leadership, there's no right type of leadership. The guy is a living legend with the type of work ethic that has allowed him to stay a top line player when everyone not named Gordie Howe was either useless or retired.

I find it hilarious that you jerk yourself silly to "leaders" like Callahan because he throws his body around, but question the leadership of a 42 yr old, Cup winning, Hart Trophy winning, 7th in all time scoring (1 more season like this year and he'll only be looking up at Gretz, Messier, & Howe) living legend.

1. I'm well aware of what Jagr brings, and yes we do lack board strength out there. There's no denying that point you made, I'm in agreement with you that one of biggest strengths is ability to shield the puck and work it down low, the biggest issue I have is that he's 42 years old and to me that's a concern, probably the biggest and main one I have towards signing him

2. I never questioned his leadership, again read point #1 because I don't feel like repeating myself here. Of course I would love a guy like Callahan on this team because he's still relatively young, can up decent totals (albeit not great), he's physical and he sacrifices hid body out there, this team needs more players like that in the lineup. Again, not once did I say Callahan was a better leader then Jagr... in fact its fair to say Jagr IMO is a better leader due to actually winning a cup, please don't put words in my mouth about what I did or didn't say.

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 09:23 PM
Would have been epic to sign Jagr to that deal instead of he-who-shall-not-be-named. **** me NJ dodged that one.

To be fair I think signing anyone other then Clarkson would be better lol.

MindzEye
04-07-2014, 09:47 PM
I never denied we don't need leadership, in fact we need a healthy injection of it... I'm just not sold on him being the right guy though

If I'm putting words in your mouth, exactly how would you like me to interpret that other than you suggesting that Jagr isn't the right "type" of leader?

Pronger84
04-07-2014, 09:50 PM
If I'm putting words in your mouth, exactly how would you like me to interpret that other than you suggesting that Jagr isn't the right "type" of leader?

I've already said why I wouldn't want to sign him... it comes down to his age primarily, has nothing to due with his leadership qualities.

JackBurton
04-08-2014, 12:51 AM
Jagr is a good guy to have around for a young team. I think a guy like that is exactly what they need.

Why does every player on the team have to be young and inexperienced?

The great thing about him is he will not say no to anyone. You give him the most money, you've got him. He's a high-priced whore.

Leafin'
04-08-2014, 01:05 AM
Am i wrong or wasn't Jagr a primadonna years ago?

Not sure what makes him a great "leader", but i recall him having major attitude problems while playing for the Rangers and Capitals years ago.

I don't care to research it, and i could be wrong, but something in my memory is telling me that was the case.

Pronger84
04-08-2014, 03:17 AM
Am i wrong or wasn't Jagr a primadonna years ago?

Not sure what makes him a great "leader", but i recall him having major attitude problems while playing for the Rangers and Capitals years ago.

I don't care to research it, and i could be wrong, but something in my memory is telling me that was the case.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/44236352/jaromir-jagrs-american-career-looked-over-but-not-only-is-he-back-hes-playing-for-a-contender-in-the-boston-bruins

By his own admission in the article Jagr admits to being selfish earlier on in his career but has since grown as a player and person.

JackBurton
04-08-2014, 09:08 AM
Jagr's season is one of the NHL's biggest surprises. He looked finished last Spring during the playoffs.

leafman101
04-08-2014, 10:28 AM
People used to make fun of the Leafs for getting guys whose best days were behind them, but they were also a legit contender at the time.

I'd rather have a past his prime Jagr than any forward on our team other than Kessel, JVR and maybe Kadri.

The guy is a beast. And at the very least it would be fun to watch him chase 1800 points here.

BG
04-08-2014, 11:13 AM
Would have been epic to sign Jagr to that deal instead of he-who-shall-not-be-named. **** me NJ dodged that one.

They signed an older Ryan Clowe to a 5/$24.25 contract. The same Ryan Clowe that managed 3 goals last season.



And "prebarbly" is not a word. Or close to one.

A great way to express both terms "probably, preferrably", with way less typing!

Wayward DP
04-08-2014, 11:16 AM
They signed an older Ryan Clowe to a 5/$24.25 contract. The same Ryan Clowe that managed 3 goals last season.



A great way to express both terms "probably, preferrably", with way less typing!

Ryan Clowe is both a better hockey player than David Clarkson, and signed for less money/term.

JackBurton
04-08-2014, 11:40 AM
After last season though, that contract was terrible.

And the Horton contract is looking awful for Columbus. And they will not be a cap max team I the future.

Wayward DP
04-08-2014, 12:35 PM
After last season though, that contract was terrible.

And the Horton contract is looking awful for Columbus. And they will not be a cap max team I the future.

Yeah, the Clowe contract sucks too, just less than Clarkson. But almost any UFA contract for middling talent, or intangibles, will inevitably suck.