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Leafin'
05-09-2014, 11:24 PM
Who do you guys think will be the assistant coaches?

Some names being mentioned:

Adam Oates
Kirk Muller
Steve Spott
Craig Ramsay
Bruce Cassidy
Scott Arniel

From Dreger:


”I think the Leafs would consider bringing in Oates for sure. I think there would be interest in Scott Arniel, yes” … ”Haven’t heard the Bruce Cassidy name in a while and he’s an interesting candidate. I wouldn’t say yes or no about him and the Leafs” … ”Search for Leafs assistants needs to be exhaustive. Otherwise, 3 men have been let go for no significant reason other than change”

Any names out there that may work? What do you think the strategy is here? They fired 3 guys, are they looking for someone to replace Carlyle if he shits the bed?

Pronger84
05-09-2014, 11:36 PM
I don't know what to think, I mean if they wanted Carlyle gone they could have kicked his sorry ass to the curb at the end of the season, but I also feel firing the coaches sends a mesage too. I think it means "Randy were tired of your mother****in bullshit, fly right or we fire you" type thing.... he's on a short leash for sure.

blacksheep
05-10-2014, 01:25 AM
Seriously, what difference could it possibly make?
Keith Acton was an assistant here through multiple head coaches, and still nothing. When they finally dumped him, and the rest of the coaching staff, we still got nothing in return.
You may also recall Wilson having lost all his assistants as well, in a failed bid to change our fortunes. Didn't work then either.
Carlyle will still play the likes of McSelke / Clarkson to death, while better options will be benched because they're not his type of player.
BIG mistake keeping him. HUGE error...

Leafin'
05-10-2014, 01:47 AM
Oh, the Leafs fired three assistant coaches, so there will be organizational changes, but that's putting a lot of responsibility/blame on assistants. If the lesson to the players is supposed to be accountability, the Maple Leafs' decision to fire underlings rather than decision makers didn't drive that message home.

Nevertheless, it doesn't much matter what kind of message was trying to be sent. What matters is whether the Maple Leafs are likely to be a better (ie. playoff) team next season. Right now, it doesn't look promising and a big reason for that is Carlyle's track record.

Under Carlyle, Toronto's possession stats are abysmal and the trend for Carlyle, going back to Anaheim, is a huge red flag. It doesn't mean that it can't be fixed. There is plenty of analytical work being done that reveals ways in which a team can improve possession, but there has not seemed to be any grasp from the Maple Leafs brass. When a team is mystified by their poor possession numbers, after pushing two of their best possession players out the door, the problems run deep.

Carlyle didn't have any real concrete answers for what happened to the Maple Leafs last season, though he did recognize, early on, that the Leafs' record was built on sand. It's one thing to recognize that there is a problem. That's the first part. But fixing the problem is where coaching and management have to take responsibility.

I suppose this is the point at which I could note that a team that bothered to spend the money it had budgeted for analytics might have some ideas about what went wrong with the team. Something more than mind-boggling because that doesn't offer even the slightest reason to be optimistic that they will be able to fix their problems going forward

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=451713

Breakdown of the Leafs heading into the offseason. Lots of question marks, not a lot of answers at the moment.

This franchise is truly "mind-boggling" at times.

Volcanologist
05-10-2014, 07:40 AM
after pushing two of their best possession players out the door, the problems run deep.


I am so ****ing tired of hearing this over and over. Grabovski the Corsi hero, if only we had him skating laps and not using his teammates again.

hockeylover
05-10-2014, 08:14 AM
Didn't both Washington and Ottawa's possession numbers go down this season anyway?

MindzEye
05-10-2014, 09:03 AM
Didn't both Washington and Ottawa's possession numbers go down this season anyway?

I've ranted about this before, but my biggest analytics complaint right now is the amount of people who pretend to understand what they actually mean. All contrary data/analysis get ignored and they keep on spewing the same half truths as truisms.

trujaysfan
05-10-2014, 09:51 AM
I've ranted about this before, but my biggest analytics complaint right now is the amount of people who pretend to understand what they actually mean. All contrary data/analysis get ignored and they keep on spewing the same half truths as truisms.

I have still yet to see anything that shows that corsi has a direct correlation to winning(if someone has an article that shows this please pass it along)... obviously when you are as terrible as we were in one particular statistical area it isn't good.

As far as assistants i would like to see a pk specialist (muller maybe?)

Leafyblue
05-10-2014, 10:50 AM
Gary Roberts. If only for the skunk eye when you **** up.

Habsy
05-10-2014, 10:55 AM
I could see them bringing Muller on board.

JackBurton
05-10-2014, 02:39 PM
Assistant coaches will do nothing. This entire situation is horseshit. A sad way for the Leafs to pretend like they're doing something.

MindzEye
05-10-2014, 04:34 PM
[QUOTE=trujaysfan;2339852]I have still yet to see anything that shows that corsi has a direct correlation to winning(if someone has an article that shows this please pass it along)... obviously when you are as terrible as we were in one particular statistical area it isn't good.[quote]

There isn't one. Actually, it's the opposite. There are a few very good articles which show that there is a very, very weak link between actual in game Corsi and winning. Nobody in the hockey analytics community wants to talk about the work done by the Baseball guys on their hockey numbers though.

As bad as the Leafs possession numbers were this year, they still don't line up with the Corsi zealot argument. When you compare our possession ranking/effectiveness against point distribution, we should have been 20 ****ing points worse this season according to Corsi. There's a problem here and it has little to do with our 1.3% better than average PDO, and a lot to do with the predictive power of possession statistics.

runninglow
05-10-2014, 10:53 PM
Biggest issue with Corsi is that it only considers when you have the puck and not if something useful is done with it. Hence why Grabo's puckhog nature makes him a Corsi god, but overall play is lacklustre. Corsi is the start of a useful stat, if it can be mixed with other stats, such as scoring chances produced from those possession times.

GGpX
05-11-2014, 11:44 AM
Kirk Muller was excellent for the Habs when he was here. Would be a very good hire for the Leafs and their forwards.

He's always positive, always bringing guys up.

LeafGm
05-11-2014, 11:55 AM
Assistant coaches will do nothing. This entire situation is horseshit. A sad way for the Leafs to pretend like they're doing something.
Yep, the whole thing is an exercise in futility. Bring in a meaningless figurehead with no experience running anything as the President, and keep everybody except for the assistant coaches.

Whoop-dee-doo. They can promote a few ACC ushers to assistant coaches for all the difference it'll make.

blacksheep
05-11-2014, 05:07 PM
It's all been done before. Look for another year of futility.

Leafin'
05-11-2014, 05:11 PM
If we aren't making the playoffs next year, they better be getting McDavid.

number17
05-13-2014, 02:10 PM
I agree replacement of Assistant coaches is just a show ... if you don't replace the head coach, you aren't getting any change in system or gameplay just by replacing the assistants.

In summer of 2011, after a disappointing season, the Leafs fired Keith Acton and Tim hunter, who were assistant coaches to Ron Wilson, and replaced them with Scott Gordon and Greg Cronin. Burke, GM at the time, cited the replacement was 'necessary' because it became obvious to him "the team needed a change." The team was especially poor in special teams and Burke was hoping the new coaches would help fix that.

So Gordon and Cronin became the new assistant coach, the Leafs went on to have a 80 points season and Wilson was fired in March. The special teams never improved either.

With that still fresh in mind, I'm surprised Nonis & Shanny pulled the same trick only 3 years later. Well, maybe I shouldn't be.

So, I really don't care who the assistant coaches are ... it makes no difference. For what it's worth, we might as well bring back Muller and Douggie and put them behind the bench ... at least that would have some entertainment value to it.

trujaysfan
05-13-2014, 02:15 PM
IMO this assistant coach move is a move that they made so that if things go sideways this season Shanny can clean house and claim that what happened before was due to not having "his guys" in charge of the team.

leafman101
05-13-2014, 02:29 PM
They have to bring in someone like Oates, Muller, Boucher or Dineen with head coaching experience because its likely they'll need a interim coach at some point next season.

trujaysfan
05-13-2014, 02:37 PM
They have to bring in someone like Oates, Muller, Boucher or Dineen with head coaching experience because its likely they'll need a interim coach at some point next season.

muller has signed with the blues