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hockeylover
08-04-2014, 12:23 PM
I guess most teams are pretty much decided so...

Who wins the division?
Who finishes at the bottom?
Where do the Leafs finish?

All predictions, <=>,pissing matches, etc., here.

Have at it.

Killer93
08-04-2014, 12:26 PM
Division winner: Tampa Bay
Bottom finisher: Ottawa
Leafs: 4th place and in a wild card spot

Killer93
08-04-2014, 12:28 PM
My division prediction:
1) Tampa Bay
2) Boston
3) Montreal
4) Toronto
5) Detroit
6) Florida
7) Buffalo
8) Ottawa

JackBurton
08-04-2014, 12:53 PM
1) Tampa Bay
2) Boston
3) Toronto
4) Montreal
5) Detroit
6) Florida
7) Ottawa
8) Buffalo

Habspatrol
08-04-2014, 01:19 PM
1) Boston
2) Montreal
3) Tampa Bay
4) Detroit
5) Toronto
6) Florida
7) Buffalo
8) Ottawa

Blueman
08-04-2014, 01:26 PM
Weird seeing Ottawa below Buffalo in your lists.

I also think Florida is the surprise team in our division.

Habspatrol
08-04-2014, 01:28 PM
Buffalo at least made a couple moves to trade to improve. Ottawa got worse, a lot worse.

Rumpleforeskin
08-04-2014, 01:28 PM
1) Boston
2) Tampa Bay
3) Toronto
4) Montreal
5) Florida
6) Detroit
7) Buffalo
8) Ottawa

:thumbup: positive thinking

IrishWolfman
08-04-2014, 01:57 PM
1) Boston
2) Montreal
3) Tampa Bay
4) Toronto
5) Detroit
6) Florida
7) Buffalo
8) Ottawa

Leafin'
08-04-2014, 01:59 PM
Ottawa has a good chance at McDavid or Eichel next year. F*cks.

Habspatrol
08-04-2014, 02:02 PM
1) Boston
2) Montreal
3) Tampa Bay
4) Toronto
5) Detroit
6) Florida
7) Buffalo
8) Ottawa

Nice list... I almost did the exact same thing... then at the last second I swapped Detroit and Toronto... cause ... well.... **** Toronto. :smilewinkgrin:

CTheBigPicture
08-04-2014, 02:06 PM
I'll go with:

1) Boston
2) Tampa
3) Toronto
4) Montreal
5) Florida
6) Detroit
7) Ottawa
8) Buffalo

I put Florida above Detroit and Buffalo below Ottawa. The latter because it would suck seeing the next generational talent in Ottawa, the former because I think Detroit takes a step back and Florida takes a few steps forward with their additions.

Habsy
08-04-2014, 02:35 PM
Toronto won't finish ahead of Montreal.

zeke
08-04-2014, 04:01 PM
1. TORONTO

JackBurton
08-04-2014, 04:39 PM
Toronto won't finish ahead of Montreal.

Of course they can.

JackBurton
08-04-2014, 04:40 PM
Craig Anderson was mediocre last year, so he's due to be good this season.

Montana
08-04-2014, 04:43 PM
1) Tampa
2) Boston
3) Toronto
4) Montreal
5) Detroit
6) Florida
7) Ottawa
8) Buffalo

MindzEye
08-04-2014, 04:43 PM
Craig Anderson was mediocre last year, so he's due to be good this season.

Wasn't that far off of his career sv% mark last season. His SV% tends to have an inverse relationship with his workload.

JackBurton
08-04-2014, 04:47 PM
I see more surprises in that other division that sounds like a Detective show.

Habsy
08-04-2014, 05:23 PM
Ottawa has a good chance at McDavid or Eichel next year. F*cks.

Yep. I don't think it's an accident either. They've purposefully set themselves up for a long season this year.

Habsy
08-04-2014, 05:23 PM
Of course they can.

Can? Maybe.

As I said... they won't.

soco22
08-04-2014, 06:18 PM
Ottawa has a very capable goalie. Buffalo will be worse, outside of injuries.

If we have a good system in place, not sure why the big difference between montreal and Toronto. Yes, price is awesome - but bernier showed he is the ****en man last year before the injury. Don't see why he can't do it again.

I like our depth now and trust putting some hard as working mother****ers with some skill into the lineup will result in shortened year type of play again without the 3 fights a night.

If we add another top 4 dman during the year (obv would love a top centre...but realistic here), watch out for us in the postseason.

Could see Boston falling off, but rask is amazing as shit. So think they will be getting one of the 3 top spots.

1/2/3 - Montreal/Toronto/Boston
4 - Tampa
5 - Florida
6- Ottawa
7 - Detroit
8 - buffalo

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-04-2014, 06:34 PM
Of course they can.
If the season is 60 games sure.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-04-2014, 06:36 PM
Montreal
Boston
Tampa Bay
Detroit
Toronto
Florida
Buffalo

Deckie007
08-04-2014, 07:39 PM
Montreal
Tampa Bay
Boston
Toronto
Detroit
Florida
Ottawa
Buffalo

Deckie007
08-04-2014, 07:39 PM
Montreal
Boston
Tampa Bay
Detroit
Toronto
Florida
Buffalo

Love how you didn't even bother including Ottawa.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-04-2014, 07:49 PM
Love how you didn't even bother including Ottawa.
I usually forget they exist.

UWHabs
08-04-2014, 08:11 PM
Ottawa, Florida, Buffalo will be bottom 3.

I'm not sold on Tampa - they made a bunch of moves, but they feel ripe to fall.
Boston also I get the sense is on the verge of collapse. The big question is how much longer Chara has as a dominant player. Their forward depth is down a lot this year.
Detroit, I don't know. They don't feel like they'll do well, but they always seem to manage anyways.
Then you have Montreal and Toronto, who both have some big holes, but some potential.

So really, I don't think anyone will win the division, but someone has to.

IrishWolfman
08-04-2014, 08:25 PM
Here's how I explain it:

Boston won the division last year. They're worse for having lost Iginla. But they have the reining Vezina winner and Reilly Smith is going to be another year older and better developed, giving him the chance to replace much of Iginla's scoring.

Losing Vanek and Gorges makes Montreal worse. While I expect a full season of Galchenyuk will replace Vanek's offensive presence, Gorges is the much greater loss and one that they haven't replaced. That having been said, those below Montreal have no improved sufficiently to overcome them.

You can't replace Martin St. Louis in the aggregate and that's what Tampa Bay is trying to do. That's what the additions of Boyle, Callahan and, to a certain degree, Stralman are an attempt at doing. A lot depends on Ben Bishop holding form from last year, I don't think that's likely but the Bolts are still a playoff team.

Toronto largely needs to stay healthy. Jonathan Bernier, like Bishop, is in a position where he has to repeat last season's performance. David Clarkson needs to not have a career worst season. Joffrey Lupul and Tyler Bozak need to stay healthy. The Leafs are deeper this year, Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner have more experience, they should squeak into the playoffs.

Detroit is a lot closer to the Florida Panthers than they are any of the teams above them. Their aging core of vets, while still talented, are now running into serious injury troubles that age rarely improves. Detroit doesn't have the goaltending or defence corps it once had. This year the streak ends.

Florida are the bizarro Wings. The Cats are going to rely on three very young players in Barkov, Huberdeau and Bjugstad to carry the bulk of the scoring. That could either work really well (in which case, the Cats will surpass the Wings) or it won't. Florida's goaltending and blue-line are talented and not to be underestimated.

Buffalo, like Florida, is leaning on a lot of young talent to perform. The difference is that Buffalo is doing it everywhere. Neuvirth and Enroth are both talented but unused to carrying a starter's load. The defence corps surrounds Tyler Myers and Josh Gorges with a legion of the unproven (Ristolainen and Zadorov) and unwanted (Mezaros). Their forwards will, one day, be great. It's unlikely that all of Ennis, Hodgson, Girgensons and Reinhart will be underwhelming this year, but they're still young players whose offensive contributions remain more potential than reality.

Ah, the Ottawa Senators....the only thing that might keep them out of the basement this year is an unexpected performance from Lehner and Anderson. The defence corps is comprised of Erik Karlsson and a lot of 5/6 Defensemen that make up the worst unit in the Division. The forwards, with the exception of Bobby Ryan (a mid season trade target if ever there was one), are wholly lacklustre and hardly worthy of mention.

zeke
08-04-2014, 08:31 PM
Rielly Smith probably has his work cut out just matching his surprise year last year.....and even then, he was there last year, so he can't "replace" Iginla. Last year they had both, now just one.

UWHabs
08-04-2014, 09:06 PM
Here's how I explain it:

Boston won the division last year. They're worse for having lost Iginla. But they have the reining Vezina winner and Reilly Smith is going to be another year older and better developed, giving him the chance to replace much of Iginla's scoring.

Losing Vanek and Gorges makes Montreal worse. While I expect a full season of Galchenyuk will replace Vanek's offensive presence, Gorges is the much greater loss and one that they haven't replaced. That having been said, those below Montreal have no improved sufficiently to overcome them.

You can't replace Martin St. Louis in the aggregate and that's what Tampa Bay is trying to do. That's what the additions of Boyle, Callahan and, to a certain degree, Stralman are an attempt at doing. A lot depends on Ben Bishop holding form from last year, I don't think that's likely but the Bolts are still a playoff team.

Toronto largely needs to stay healthy. Jonathan Bernier, like Bishop, is in a position where he has to repeat last season's performance. David Clarkson needs to not have a career worst season. Joffrey Lupul and Tyler Bozak need to stay healthy. The Leafs are deeper this year, Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner have more experience, they should squeak into the playoffs.

Detroit is a lot closer to the Florida Panthers than they are any of the teams above them. Their aging core of vets, while still talented, are now running into serious injury troubles that age rarely improves. Detroit doesn't have the goaltending or defence corps it once had. This year the streak ends.

Florida are the bizarro Wings. The Cats are going to rely on three very young players in Barkov, Huberdeau and Bjugstad to carry the bulk of the scoring. That could either work really well (in which case, the Cats will surpass the Wings) or it won't. Florida's goaltending and blue-line are talented and not to be underestimated.

Buffalo, like Florida, is leaning on a lot of young talent to perform. The difference is that Buffalo is doing it everywhere. Neuvirth and Enroth are both talented but unused to carrying a starter's load. The defence corps surrounds Tyler Myers and Josh Gorges with a legion of the unproven (Ristolainen and Zadorov) and unwanted (Mezaros). Their forwards will, one day, be great. It's unlikely that all of Ennis, Hodgson, Girgensons and Reinhart will be underwhelming this year, but they're still young players whose offensive contributions remain more potential than reality.

Ah, the Ottawa Senators....the only thing that might keep them out of the basement this year is an unexpected performance from Lehner and Anderson. The defence corps is comprised of Erik Karlsson and a lot of 5/6 Defensemen that make up the worst unit in the Division. The forwards, with the exception of Bobby Ryan (a mid season trade target if ever there was one), are wholly lacklustre and hardly worthy of mention.

Yeah, this is what I meant to say.

Habspatrol
08-04-2014, 09:16 PM
Here's how I explain it:

Boston won the division last year. They're worse for having lost Iginla. But they have the reining Vezina winner and Reilly Smith is going to be another year older and better developed, giving him the chance to replace much of Iginla's scoring.

Losing Vanek and Gorges makes Montreal worse. While I expect a full season of Galchenyuk will replace Vanek's offensive presence, Gorges is the much greater loss and one that they haven't replaced. That having been said, those below Montreal have no improved sufficiently to overcome them.

You can't replace Martin St. Louis in the aggregate and that's what Tampa Bay is trying to do. That's what the additions of Boyle, Callahan and, to a certain degree, Stralman are an attempt at doing. A lot depends on Ben Bishop holding form from last year, I don't think that's likely but the Bolts are still a playoff team.

Toronto largely needs to stay healthy. Jonathan Bernier, like Bishop, is in a position where he has to repeat last season's performance. David Clarkson needs to not have a career worst season. Joffrey Lupul and Tyler Bozak need to stay healthy. The Leafs are deeper this year, Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner have more experience, they should squeak into the playoffs.

Detroit is a lot closer to the Florida Panthers than they are any of the teams above them. Their aging core of vets, while still talented, are now running into serious injury troubles that age rarely improves. Detroit doesn't have the goaltending or defence corps it once had. This year the streak ends.

Florida are the bizarro Wings. The Cats are going to rely on three very young players in Barkov, Huberdeau and Bjugstad to carry the bulk of the scoring. That could either work really well (in which case, the Cats will surpass the Wings) or it won't. Florida's goaltending and blue-line are talented and not to be underestimated.

Buffalo, like Florida, is leaning on a lot of young talent to perform. The difference is that Buffalo is doing it everywhere. Neuvirth and Enroth are both talented but unused to carrying a starter's load. The defence corps surrounds Tyler Myers and Josh Gorges with a legion of the unproven (Ristolainen and Zadorov) and unwanted (Mezaros). Their forwards will, one day, be great. It's unlikely that all of Ennis, Hodgson, Girgensons and Reinhart will be underwhelming this year, but they're still young players whose offensive contributions remain more potential than reality.

Ah, the Ottawa Senators....the only thing that might keep them out of the basement this year is an unexpected performance from Lehner and Anderson. The defence corps is comprised of Erik Karlsson and a lot of 5/6 Defensemen that make up the worst unit in the Division. The forwards, with the exception of Bobby Ryan (a mid season trade target if ever there was one), are wholly lacklustre and hardly worthy of mention.

Very solid post. As for the Habs losing Gorges I'd counter that Gilbert + Weaver >> Gorges + Bouillon/Murray

The rest of the post I agree with.

leaffan2005
08-04-2014, 09:33 PM
When did Montreal become this powerhouse that would definitely be ahead of any team in the division save for a team like Ottawa and Buffalo?

JackBurton
08-04-2014, 09:46 PM
Rielly Smith probably has his work cut out just matching his surprise year last year.....and even then, he was there last year, so he can't "replace" Iginla. Last year they had both, now just one.

Yeah, he surprised last year. It'll be tough to match that.

Boston's big problem is they may be the slowest team in the NHL. Also, it seems like few are mentioning this, but Chara lost a massive step last season. He looked terrible in the playoffs. The aging process will be very tough on him.

JackBurton
08-04-2014, 09:49 PM
When did Montreal become this powerhouse that would definitely be ahead of any team in the division save for a team like Ottawa and Buffalo?

People think going to the conference finals means something once the season starts. It really does not.

New York made the finals. Anyone think they are a lock? I don't. They'll have to fight hard to make the playoffs.

zeke
08-04-2014, 10:09 PM
When did Montreal become this powerhouse that would definitely be ahead of any team in the division save for a team like Ottawa and Buffalo?

4th in ECF, 8th in NHL

6th in ECF goal diff, 12th in NHL goal diff

13th in ECF shot diff, 25th in NHL shot diff

OUT: Vanek, Gionta, Gorges, Briere, White, Bouillon
IN: Parenteau, Gilbert, Malhotra


= powerhouse, of course.

JohnnyHolmes
08-04-2014, 10:17 PM
I don't have any idea what to expect from Ottawa.

I can't imagine that they will suck as hard as they did last season. You'd have to think it's pretty unlikely that the G's both struggle, and that Cowen and co. shit the bed like last year.

Now losing Spezza will hurt the offense, but it sure has to help the defense and the lazy goomba factor. Might be some addition by subtraction there.

Then there is the inexplicable re-signing of Phillips, the extension to Greening, and the still happening contract of Neil to deal with. There are three wasted roster spots right there.

If Paully Walrus doesn't go full retard all year again, I think they might be a tough team to play against. Maybe some of the kids will take steps forward. Maybe one will break out.

Maybe we pick McDavid next year.

Montana
08-04-2014, 10:24 PM
I don't have any idea what to expect from Ottawa.


http://i.imgur.com/FmEsXEu.jpg

Habspatrol
08-04-2014, 11:37 PM
When did Montreal become this powerhouse that would definitely be ahead of any team in the division save for a team like Ottawa and Buffalo?

Not sure anyone thinks they're a power house. Most people have them between 2nd-4th in the division in this thread. Considering they've been 2nd and 3rd (one point out of 2nd) the past two seasons, I don't think a 2nd-4th finish is out of line nor is it calling them a power house.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-05-2014, 12:20 AM
People think going to the conference finals means something once the season starts. It really does not.

New York made the finals. Anyone think they are a lock? I don't. They'll have to fight hard to make the playoffs.
I guarantee if Leafs made Final last year there is NO way you would not consider them a lock this year.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-05-2014, 12:22 AM
When did Montreal become this powerhouse that would definitely be ahead of any team in the division save for a team like Ottawa and Buffalo?
Well in all fairness winning a division one year and then semi-finals the next tends to give that impression.

Habsy
08-05-2014, 12:37 AM
When did Montreal become this powerhouse that would definitely be ahead of any team in the division save for a team like Ottawa and Buffalo?
1917

Habsy
08-05-2014, 12:38 AM
4th in ECF, 8th in NHL

6th in ECF goal diff, 12th in NHL goal diff

13th in ECF shot diff, 25th in NHL shot diff

OUT: Vanek, Gionta, Gorges, Briere, White, Bouillon
IN: Parenteau, Gilbert, Malhotra


= powerhouse, of course.
You're always wrong about the Habs. It's why I love reading you diss them.

zeke
08-05-2014, 12:41 AM
I was higher on them than you were.

Volcanologist
08-05-2014, 10:00 AM
It's a pretty weak and wide-open conference. A few teams should be quite bad, like buffalo and Ottawa, but I don't see a lot of teams that should be out of the race before it begins.

As long as Kessel Phaneuf and Bernier stay healthy we can compete for at least a wildcard spot.

LeafGm
08-05-2014, 10:17 AM
The only teams that don't have a prayer of winning the Atlantic are Ottawa, Buffalo and Florida.

Between all the rest of the teams in the division, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating them. All of them have holes, and some fairly serious question marks.

As for Leafs/Habs specifically, I think the Leafs have the raw talent to match up with and finish ahead of the Habs. But the big question mark for the Leafs is the space between all their ears. With the way they competed for home ice all year before collapsing spectacularly (and, of course, the playoff collapse the year before, and the other late-season collapse the year before that), I won't even attempt to make any kind of serious prediction of where the Leafs could end up in the standings.

I could see them winning the division, and I could see them finishing out of the playoffs again. Neither outcome would surprise me.

corksens
08-05-2014, 10:27 AM
Ottawa isn't going to take a playoff spot, but I don't think they are going to be a bottom feeder.

Can't believe the team is going into the season with an almost identical blue line...

Habspatrol
08-05-2014, 10:48 AM
The only teams that don't have a prayer of winning the Atlantic are Ottawa, Buffalo and Florida.

Between all the rest of the teams in the division, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating them. All of them have holes, and some fairly serious question marks.

As for Leafs/Habs specifically, I think the Leafs have the raw talent to match up with and finish ahead of the Habs. But the big question mark for the Leafs is the space between all their ears. With the way they competed for home ice all year before collapsing spectacularly (and, of course, the playoff collapse the year before, and the other late-season collapse the year before that), I won't even attempt to make any kind of serious prediction of where the Leafs could end up in the standings.

I could see them winning the division, and I could see them finishing out of the playoffs again. Neither outcome would surprise me.

Realistically it could come down to who's better between Price and Bernier. I like our chances of winning that match up, but it's definitely possible the Bernier has the better year.

MindzEye
08-05-2014, 10:48 AM
Ottawa isn't going to take a playoff spot, but I don't think they are going to be a bottom feeder.

Can't believe the team is going into the season with an almost identical blue line...

I'm not sure how they've done anything other than gotten worst this off season though. It's not hard to see them slugging it out with Buffalo at the bottom of the division/conference when you compare the rosters.

LeafGm
08-05-2014, 10:57 AM
Realistically it could come down to who's better between Price and Bernier. I like our chances of winning that match up, but it's definitely possible the Bernier has the better year.
It also comes down to whether or not the Leafs decide to collectively shit their pants down the stretch.

zeke
08-05-2014, 11:12 AM
I bet ottawa is better without spezza.

LeafGm
08-05-2014, 11:24 AM
I bet ottawa is better without spezza.
They already were in the 2012/13 season.

Pronger84
08-05-2014, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE=LeafGm;2391515]The only teams that don't have a prayer of winning the Atlantic are Ottawa, Buffalo and Florida.




"Competitive" is such a vague word, the Leafs truly werent competitve in the sense they were equal to or better then the teams around them and they sure as hell lacked a team effort most nights, so in that sense I have to disagree with that. The Leafs were in the race up until March mainly due to the 1st line and Bernier carrying them on is back, but it fell apart after the olympics due to fatigue setting in on the 1st line and secondary scoring not being able to jump in, also the Leafs giving up the most shots in the NHL begin to ware down Bernier and his injury all but sealed the Leafs fate.

I do agree though, the East is wide open and there's no team that stands out this year so its entirely possble the Leafs snag home ice just as its entirely likey they fall short of the playoffs as well.

I see the Leaf starting out at a torrid pace but having a collapse in the 2nd half again, although I don't think it'll be nearly as bad as last season which is why I think they nail the final WC spot.

corksens
08-05-2014, 11:48 AM
Ahhh. Close P84. Almost got that quote thing down.

Metalleaf
08-05-2014, 11:49 AM
No, because unlike last year they have a bottom 6 that can actually play defence, contribute offensively, and work on special teams.

worm
08-05-2014, 11:49 AM
1) Boston
2) Montreal
3) Tampa Bay
4) Toronto
5) Detroit
6) Florida
7) Buffalo
8) Ottawa

+1

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 12:02 PM
Ottawa isn't going to take a playoff spot, but I don't think they are going to be a bottom feeder.

Can't believe the team is going into the season with an almost identical blue line...

Someone has be though. Who do you see it being then?

zeke
08-05-2014, 01:12 PM
I still think buf and fla stink.

leafman101
08-05-2014, 01:15 PM
Buffalo, Florida and Ottawa are terrible. Boston and Tampa are pretty good. The rest flip a coin. Depends on health and goaltending.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
08-05-2014, 01:27 PM
Ahhh. Close P84. Almost got that quote thing down.

He has to be doing that on purpose now right? It is his trademark after all.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-05-2014, 01:27 PM
Buffalo, Florida and Ottawa are terrible. Boston and Tampa are pretty good. The rest flip a coin. Depends on health and goaltending.

Interesting that the team that beat the two "pretty good" teams in the post season is listed in the "flip a coin" category.

We didn't lose much. I didn't like seeing Vanek go but he had a terrible post season. Gorges I liked so that is a loss that is only partially offset by Gilbert but Briere, White are nothing much to worry about. The cyclops might be a decent fourth liner for us and likely better than White, Parenteau is probably an improvement over Briere.

leafman101
08-05-2014, 01:30 PM
Its not that interesting. Ottawa beat you guys in the playoffs two years ago and we all saw how little that mattered.

Last years playoffs don't determine this years standings. Sorry. I wouldn't pick the Rangers to win the east either.

zeke
08-05-2014, 01:44 PM
Turris - Desharnais
Ryan - Pacioretty
MacA - Parenteau

Legwand - Pleks
Michalek - Galchenyuk
Chaisson - Gallagher

Zibanejad - Eller
Greening - Bourque
Neil - Prust

Smith - Malhotra
Condra - Moen
Grant - Wiese

Pageau - Bournival
Stone - Sekac



Karlsson - Subban
Methot - Markov

Cowen - Emelin
Wiercioch - Gilbert

Phillips - Weaver
Ceci - Beaulieu
Gryba - Tinordi


Anderson - Price
Lehner - Budaj

Habspatrol
08-05-2014, 01:47 PM
Who cares about playoffs when discussing regular season standings?

Habs have been in the top couple spots in the division and conference for the past 2 seasons. Projecting them to be up there again is at the very least understandable. Even if you don't believe they're a lock.

JohnnyHolmes
08-05-2014, 02:26 PM
I bet ottawa is better without spezza.

So Ottawa, practically unchanged from last year, and "better without Spezza" is a bottom feeder, but the Leafs who we actually finished ahead of are in the playoff picture?

zeke
08-05-2014, 02:45 PM
I think you're mixing up your posters.

corksens
08-05-2014, 03:33 PM
Yea, zeke seems moderately high on the Sens.

I think they'll finish 8th-11th in the East.

The team, with alot less, did well the season before.

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 03:37 PM
8th seems awfully optimistic to me.

corksens
08-05-2014, 03:41 PM
8th seems awfully optimistic to me.Why? Anything can happen. They did it without Michalek, Spezza or Karlsson two years ago.

Regardless, forgive me for holding some faint hope that the team can squeak into the playoffs.

I just think the team will be tougher to play against compared to last year. If they can be more of a mean team then I will be very very happy.

worm
08-05-2014, 03:41 PM
Meh. Would not shock me if the sens made the playoffs. Could get super elite goaltending again.

And Hot Karl is awesome.

worm
08-05-2014, 03:41 PM
Why? Anything can happen. They did it without Michalek, Spezza or Karlsson two years ago.

Regardless, forgive me for holding some faint hope that the team can squeak into the playoffs.

I just think the team will be tougher to play against compared to last year. If they can be more of a mean team then I will be very very happy.

Ya...plus no hype of division winner stuff this year.

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 03:48 PM
Why? Anything can happen. They did it without Michalek, Spezza or Karlsson two years ago.

Regardless, forgive me for holding some faint hope that the team can squeak into the playoffs.

I just think the team will be tougher to play against compared to last year. If they can be more of a mean team then I will be very very happy.

Sure, okay. You're forgiven.

The East is pretty wide open - it isn't impossible. If pressed I'd probably have the Leafs out and I still think our roster looks better than yours.

zeke
08-05-2014, 03:57 PM
I think there's a decent chance that the sens' goalies bounce back, and that the team gers cliser to the defensive buy in that they had two years ago. Doubt they'll be as lucky as they were that year, though.

But really, as always, these preductions rely so much on goalie performance.

How much faith do we have that price will have two consevutive great years for the first time? Are we sure Lehner doesn't break out this year? What are the chances that both leaf goalies are either injured or slumping at the same time and for a long time again?

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 03:59 PM
Meh. Would not shock me if the sens made the playoffs. Could get super elite goaltending again.

And Hot Karl is awesome.

That's probably what it'll take, IMO.

Metalleaf
08-05-2014, 04:00 PM
The Leafs should have made the playoffs last year and they will make the playoffs this season.

Tampa Bay
Montreal
Toronto
Boston
Detroit
Buffalo
Ottawa
Florida

leafman101
08-05-2014, 04:00 PM
I don't know. Ottawa looks pretty bad to me. They have one defenseman, a second line and maybe average goaltending.

worm
08-05-2014, 04:05 PM
I think there's a decent chance that the sens' goalies bounce back, and that the team gers cliser to the defensive buy in that they had two years ago. Doubt they'll be as lucky as they were that year, though.

But really, as always, these preductions rely so much on goalie performance.

How much faith do we have that price will have two consevutive great years for the first time? Are we sure Lehner doesn't break out this year? What are the chances that both leaf goalies are either injured or slumping at the same time and for a long time again?

What if both leaf goalies didnt slump.... ?..... :p

Montana
08-05-2014, 04:13 PM
The scariest question for me, is what would have been last year if we hadn't gotten .918 goaltending.

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 04:17 PM
I'm still pretty nervous about Carlyle/our defensive system.

LeafGm
08-05-2014, 04:28 PM
I'm still pretty nervous about Carlyle/our defensive system.
This is the #1 reason why I still don't have any trouble picturing us missing the playoffs.

Hopefully if we start off the season getting outshot by a 2-1 margin again every night, or lose a lot of games out the gate, management will give Randy the boot befor the season is lost. He'd better be on the shortest leash possible.

zeke
08-05-2014, 04:28 PM
If the system doesn't change, we're toast.

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 04:31 PM
This is the #1 reason why I still don't have any trouble picturing us missing the playoffs.

Hopefully if we start off the season getting outshot by a 2-1 margin again every night, or lose a lot of games out the gate, management will give Randy the boot befor the season is lost. He'd better be on the shortest leash possible.

Same here, unfortunately. I just wonder if whatever adjustments he makes will be enough.

MindzEye
08-05-2014, 04:33 PM
If Randy doesn't change the system, and we struggle defensively again, Randy will be toast by Christmas.

Montana
08-05-2014, 04:43 PM
I'd rather keep Randy for the year if it's going back, and let him crash this f*cker into the ground so we can snag a lottery spot and get a chance as a truly elite talent.

We can hire our coaching savior next offseason.

corksens
08-05-2014, 04:44 PM
I don't know. Ottawa looks pretty bad to me. They have one defenseman, a second line and maybe average goaltending.If you want an honest debate let me know. But if thats the starting point for discussion then no thanks.

worm
08-05-2014, 04:45 PM
I'd rather keep Randy for the year if it's going back, and let him crash this f*cker into the ground so we can snag a lottery spot and get a chance as a truly elite talent.

We can hire our coaching savior next offseason.

With the Oilers hiring a blogger the saviour could be whoever wins the FI Dynasty League

Montana
08-05-2014, 04:45 PM
If you want an honest debate let me know. But if thats the starting point for discussion then no thanks.


If he wanted an honest debate, I suspect you'd be the last person he'd get ahold of.

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 04:51 PM
So if they keep that MacArthur/Turris/Ryan line together, is their second line Michalek, Zibanejad...?

Not really sure what the line combos will look like.

leafman101
08-05-2014, 04:55 PM
I was being honest.

LeafGm
08-05-2014, 05:02 PM
If you want an honest debate let me know. But if thats the starting point for discussion then no thanks.
How is he that far off though? After Karlsson, your defense core is hideous. I mean, Wiercioch is okay and Ceci is a good (albeit young, and raw) prospect. But Methot, Cowen, Phillips and Gryba are immobile junk.

Out of your forward group, Bobby Ryan's the only "1st line" caliber talent you have (albeit, a "1st liner" that's a lot more familiar with the 60-point plateau than anything higher than that), but there's a good chance you'll be trading him mid-season. MacArthur, Turris and Michalek are second-line talent at best, and out of the rest of your forward depth chart, the only one that may be able to be better than a 3rd/4th liner for you is Zibanejad.

As for the goaltending, I'd say that it's almost guaranteed that you'll get average goaltending at least, provided both guys can stay healthy. But you've got no guarantees beyond that, with Leher being a young, unproven goalie at the NHL level, and with Anderson's year-to-year inconsistency.

MindzEye
08-05-2014, 05:03 PM
I'd rather keep Randy for the year if it's going back, and let him crash this f*cker into the ground so we can snag a lottery spot and get a chance as a truly elite talent.

We can hire our coaching savior next offseason.

I think seeing a result like last year is a lot more likely. This roster isn't bad enough to be that bad. Just like last season when it was about as bad as it could have possibly been (seriously...they gave up the most shots in the modern era). I'd rather punt Randy and see if an interim coach can turn the ship around than land a 10-12 pick. we fluked out with getting a talent like Nylander this season, I don't like the idea of letting another season burn for a similar shot in the dark.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-05-2014, 05:45 PM
Who cares about playoffs when discussing regular season standings?

Habs have been in the top couple spots in the division and conference for the past 2 seasons. Projecting them to be up there again is at the very least understandable. Even if you don't believe they're a lock.

I wrote that earlier in the thread. We were first two years ago and had 100 points last year, if that were the Leafs, no way any here would say they were a coin flip team.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-05-2014, 05:47 PM
I think there's a decent chance that the sens' goalies bounce back, and that the team gers cliser to the defensive buy in that they had two years ago. Doubt they'll be as lucky as they were that year, though.

But really, as always, these preductions rely so much on goalie performance.

How much faith do we have that price will have two consevutive great years for the first time? Are we sure Lehner doesn't break out this year? What are the chances that both leaf goalies are either injured or slumping at the same time and for a long time again?

More than Bernier playing above his head or Reimer getting back to his 10 game streak of a couple of years ago, that is for sure.

MindzEye
08-05-2014, 05:51 PM
Riddle me this...how exactly did Bernier play above his head?

zeke
08-05-2014, 05:52 PM
C Bozak (28): 20:40, 24gl/61pt pace (104gms)
C Plekanec (32): 19:35, 22gl/49pt pace (128gms)
C Turris (25): 19:04, 24gl/55pt pace (130gms)

W Kessel (27): 20:21, 36gl/83pt pace (130gms)
W Pacioretty (26): 17:45, 38gl/69pt pace (117gms)
W Ryan (27): 16:45, 24gl/55pt pace (116gms)

W Lupul (31): 18:21, 32gl/60pt pace (85gms)
W Parenteau (31): 17:59, 26gl/61pt pace (103gms)
W MacA (29): 16:43, 22gl/52pt pace (119gms)


C Kadri (24): 16:53, 25gl/61pt pace (126gms)
C Desharnais (28): 16:55, 17gl/51pt pace (127gms)
C Legwand (34): 17:31, 16gl/48pt pace (131gms)

W VanRyk (25): 20:21, 31gl/60pt pace (128gms)
W Gallagher (22): 15:13, 22gl/45pt pace (125gms)
W Michalek (30): 17:44, 16gl/41pt pace (105gms)

W Winnik (28): 15:57, 8gl/32pt pace (124gms)
W Galchenyuk (20): 13:30, 16gl/42pt pace (113gms)
W A.Chiasson (24): 15:01, 18gl/40pt pace (86gms)


C Santorelli (29): 15:49, 12gl/32pt pace (83gms)
C Eller (25): 15:33, 13gl/37pt pace (123gms)
C Zibanejad (21): 14:03, 17gl/39pt pace (111gms)

W Clarkson (30): 16:13, 15gl/27pt pace (108gms)
W Bourque (33): 14:50, 15gl/26pt pace (90gms)
W Greening (28): 14:08, 9gl/24pt pace (123gms)

W Frattin (26): 12:28, 11gl/24pt pace (69gms)
W Prust (30): 13:10, 10gl/25pt pace (90gms)
W Stone (22): 13:41, 14gl/29pt pace (23gms)


C Kontiola (30): ---
C Malhotra (34): 11:33, 7gl/14pt pace (78gms)
C Smith (26): 15:24, 11gl/23pt pace (130gms)

W Booth (30): 13:21, 11gl/23pt pace (78gms)
W Wiese (26): 8:52, 7gl/18pt pace (101gms)
W Condra (28): 12:14, 7gl/19pt pace (124gms)

W Komarov (27): 13:56, 8gl/18pt pace (42gms)
W Moen (32): 11:35, 3gl/13pt pace (110gms)
W Neil (35): 12:36, 8gl/17pt pace (124gms)


W Holland (23): 11:26, 12gl/21pt pace (64gms)
W Bournival (22): 10:19, 10gl/19pt pace (60gms)
W Hoffman (25): 13:05, 9gl/18pt pace (29gms)

W Bodie (29): 8:37, 5gl/18pt pace (47gms)
W Sekac (22): ----
W Pageau (22): 10:33, 9gl/13pt pace (37gms)





D Phaneuf (29): 24:10, 11gl/38pt pace (128gms)
D Subban (25): 24:09, 14gl/60pt pace (124gms)
D Karlsson (24): 27:05, 22gl/73pt pace (99gms)

D Robidas (37): 21:19, 6gl/22pt pace (86gms)
D Markov (36): 24:49, 11gl/46pt pace (129gms)
D Methot (29): 21:56, 5gl/23pt pace (122gms)


D Gardiner (24): 21:00, 9gl/31pt pace (92gms)
D Gilbert (32): 20:35, 4gl/29pt pace (116gms)
D Wiercioch (24): 16:04, 8gl/36pt pace (95gms)

D Franson (27): 20:00, 6gl/41pt pace (124gms)
D Emelin (28): 19:25, 5gl/25pt pace (97gms)
D Cowen (24): 20:30, 8gl/18pt pace (75gms)


D Polak (28): 17:40, 3gl/13pt pace (120gms)
D Weaver (36): 18:56, 2gl/18pt pace (99gms)
D Phillips (36): 19:58, 4gl/20pt pace (118gms)

D Rielly (20): 17:37, 2gl/30pt pace (73gms)
D Beaulieu (22): 13:47, 0gl/14pt pace (23gms)
D Ceci (21): 17:12, 5gl/15pt pace (49gms)

D Percy (21) / Granberg (22): : ---
D Tinordi (22): 13:46, 0gl/11pt pace (30gms)
D Gryba (26): 18:31, 4gl/16pt pace (90gms)



G Bernier (26): .922sv% (69gms)
G Price (27): .919sv% (98gms)
G Anderson (33): .919sv% (77gms)

G Reimer (26): .917sv% (69gms)
G Budaj (32): .909sv% (37gms)
G Lehner (23): .920sv% (48gms)

JohnnyHolmes
08-05-2014, 06:24 PM
Ya...plus no hype of division winner stuff this year.

No there certainly isn't any of that.

I think Legwand will be a solid player for us. He'll probably occupy the #2 C position more often than not.

Michalek...I'm not crazy about him still being around. Who knows though, maybe he'll have a decent year. He was a bad fit with Spezza in spite of his 35 goal season.

If his wheels are there, he can be pretty good. Unfortunately when they're not he's useless.

We definitely need someone to break out. Stone or Zibanejad or whoever.

Cowen...I really hope he bounces back. He's going to get chances because of his contract regardless, but he really can't e as bad as he was last season.

Phillips was a stupid signing (the Brian Murray special)

Basically I have zero expectations this year.

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 06:45 PM
More than Bernier playing above his head or Reimer getting back to his 10 game streak of a couple of years ago, that is for sure.

Huh?

Pronger84
08-05-2014, 07:00 PM
I'd rather keep Randy for the year if it's going back, and let him crash this f*cker into the ground so we can snag a lottery spot and get a chance as a truly elite talent.

We can hire our coaching savior next offseason.

I highly doubt the Leafs get a lottery pick, the closest they've ever come was netting the 2nd overall in 2009 and even then they bumbled it up by dealing it away. This Leafs tefam has too solid of goaltending and too much firepower up front for them sink down to a lottery pick. If they have another epic collapse (and its entirely possible) then yea they'll get a top 10 pick but it won't be a lottery one though, think in the range of 7th-10th overall.

If by "coaching saviour" you mean Babcock, that's alot of assumptions right there.... whos' to say he leaves Detroit? Even if he does, what if he elects to go to another team not named Toronto..

If its up to me- Carlyle has the remainin offseason, all of preseason and the first 10 games of the regular season to get his act together.... if the Leafs are sub .500 then his ass is grass, if the Leafs are above .500 then he sticks around a bit longer.

UWHabs
08-05-2014, 09:45 PM
Well, everyone who misses the playoffs is in the lottery, so....

I feel comfortable that the Habs will make the playoffs. The only way we miss is if Price shits the bed or our D implodes on itself, either with multiple injuries or PK faltering. We have good depth up front, and if we can get a breakout performance (Galchenyuk), then we could be even stronger than many of us think.

The Leafs I have a feeling will do well, but your D is super sketchy, and I think your goaltending won't be as strong next year. Plus, if Bernier falters, you're going to have some insane shitshow figuring out whether to play Reimer or not. I also wonder if your 12 3rd liner free agents will cause any disruption, either not being able to find chemistry between each other or in trying to bicker and fight to get more icetime.

hockeylover
08-05-2014, 10:02 PM
The Leafs I have a feeling will do well, but your D is super sketchy, and I think your goaltending won't be as strong next year. Plus, if Bernier falters, you're going to have some insane shitshow figuring out whether to play Reimer or not. I also wonder if your 12 3rd liner free agents will cause any disruption, either not being able to find chemistry between each other or in trying to bicker and fight to get more icetime.

I think some of your reasons are a bit of a stretch personally.

If the Leafs don't make it, and it's a distinct possibility, it's probably not going to be because of goaltending, or because our bottom 6 is "fighting over icetime" (not sure why this is even a negative?)... it'll probably be because our defensive system still blows.

And I dunno if our D is super sketchy personnel wise. But I guess since you think Gardiner is MAB...

lecoqsportif
08-05-2014, 10:14 PM
The whole division is cack. Flawed teams from top to bottom.

Boston will likely win this turtle derby, because someone has to.

worm
08-06-2014, 10:17 AM
Riddle me this...how exactly did Bernier play above his head?

Short goalies do not last an entire season.
#fact

MindzEye
08-06-2014, 10:31 AM
Short goalies do not last an entire season.
#fact

Neither did Bernier. I just think it's a bit silly to expect his play to drop off of where it's roughly been his entire NHL/AHL career. Durability is definitely a question Bernier needs to answer though and that's always the difference between a good #1A and a legit #1. Being a .920 goalie for 45-50 games is cool, but it leaves a club requiring an average or better 1B for the club to really benefit from plus goaltending for 82 games. There's a lot more value in a 65+ game guy than there is in a 45-50 game guy.

Habsy
08-06-2014, 10:36 AM
I'm still pretty nervous about Carlyle/our defensive system.

This.

This is the main reason I say the Habs will finish ahead of the Leafs. Keeping Carlyle was stupid IMO. Heck I still want Therrien gone and he went to the ECF. If Carlyle was the Habs coach I'd want him drawn and quartered.

MindzEye
08-06-2014, 11:49 AM
Yeah, that's the big question mark for me too. When you look at the roster itself, the forward group is really deep, big, relatively mean, high skilled, really explosive in the top 6. One of the better groups of forwards in the EC. The blueline could us another piece, but Gardiner or Rielly could pretty easily become that piece with the talent levels they have. Robidas should be a good steadying influence and anything that can lower Phaneufs work load would make the unit better as a whole imo. There's question marks in the blueline, but man for man I don't see why it's not playoff calibre. Goaltending should be solid as well with the possibility of being stellar.

Systems play is really the only thing I'm worried about.

corksens
08-06-2014, 12:01 PM
Methot, our second best defenseman, would be the leafs third best defenseman. He's far from immobile junk.

worm
08-06-2014, 12:05 PM
Team Canada Methot? Or was that somebody else?

corksens
08-06-2014, 12:06 PM
As for the goaltending, I'd say that it's almost guaranteed that you'll get average goaltending at least, provided both guys can stay healthy. But you've got no guarantees beyond that, with Leher being a young, unproven goalie at the NHL level, and with Anderson's year-to-year inconsistency. I expect a stable net presence that's it. Our tandem has just as much of a chance of being the best out of the three teams in debate right now.

I fully expect an offense by committee team. So hopefully they can play a tight, mean style and win games as a result. They won't have the offensive punch to win shootouts though.

MindzEye
08-06-2014, 02:32 PM
I expect a stable net presence that's it. Our tandem has just as much of a chance of being the best out of the three teams in debate right now.

No, it doesn't

corksens
08-06-2014, 02:46 PM
No, it doesn't

Yea, it does.

G Bernier (26): .922sv% (69gms)
G Price (27): .919sv% (98gms)
G Anderson (33): .919sv% (77gms)

G Reimer (26): .917sv% (69gms)
G Budaj (32): .909sv% (37gms)
G Lehner (23): .920sv% (48gms)

Volcanologist
08-06-2014, 02:51 PM
last year Anderson was .911 and Lehner was .913.

worm
08-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Big question marks for all three teams in net.

MindzEye
08-06-2014, 02:56 PM
Yea, it does.

G Bernier (26): .922sv% (69gms)
G Price (27): .919sv% (98gms)
G Anderson (33): .919sv% (77gms)

G Reimer (26): .917sv% (69gms)
G Budaj (32): .909sv% (37gms)
G Lehner (23): .920sv% (48gms)

Are we going to play this game again where you're going to use Anderson's (and Lehner's) ridiculous small sample size outlier in 12-13 as if it means something, then spend all season talking about how poorly he's playing when he's really performing somewhere close to his career norm?

If that's the game we're playing, cool, at least be honest about it.

Because seriously, this game was really fun last season. I remember being accused of all sorts of shit. Good times.

corksens
08-06-2014, 03:11 PM
No, what we are going to do is use their past two seasons of play...which we do for virtually all players.

That suggests to me that all teams have the same ability to have top goaltending of the bunch.

zeke
08-06-2014, 03:17 PM
I'd guess sens goalies get better this year than last year.

corksens
08-06-2014, 04:16 PM
you're going to use Anderson's (and Lehner's) ridiculous small sample size outlier in 12-13 as if it means somethingThis is just absurd. We're taking both teams goalies over the past two years. Simple as that. No weighting. Nothing funny. What could possibly be an issue with using those figures?

Pronger84
08-06-2014, 04:20 PM
The whole division is cack. Flawed teams from top to bottom.

Boston will likely win this turtle derby, because someone has to.

Yea, even though Boston is an aging team and their window is shrinking they still are heads/shoulders above any other team in the division as much as that pains me to say.

Pronger84
08-06-2014, 04:22 PM
No, what we are going to do is use their past two seasons of play...which we do for virtually all players.

That suggests to me that all teams have the same ability to have top goaltending of the bunch.

I really hope u aren't comparing the Sens goaltending to the Habs or even the Leafs..... both teams have superior goaltending to the Sens.

hockeylover
08-06-2014, 04:24 PM
I don't think if the Sens miss it'll be because of the goaltending. The rest of the roster is more concerning.

corksens
08-06-2014, 04:25 PM
I really hope u aren't comparing the Sens goaltending to the Habs or even the Leafs..... both teams have superior goaltending to the Sens.Go ahead and back that up.

Good company you have their, Mindz.

worm
08-06-2014, 04:29 PM
I think each have questions....

Sens...which was the real goaltending....last year or the year before?
Habs....can Price do it two years in a row?
Leafs....What is up with Reimer? Can Bernier do it over a full season?

Pronger84
08-06-2014, 04:33 PM
1. I think they're goaltending falls in between better then lat year but not as solid as 12/13
2. Price falls a bit IMO still gives the Habs solid goaltending
3. Riemer's mentally weak and he doesn't have IMO what it takes to be a true #1, jury is still out on Bernier, yes he had a good season last year but can he repeat? Better question can he stay healthy?

CH1
08-06-2014, 04:42 PM
Habs Black Swans

Max has a shit year
Markov breaks his knee
Price quits the game to go hunting and rodeo fulltime

worm
08-06-2014, 04:42 PM
Subban gets infected paper cut from money phone.

Wayward DP
08-07-2014, 01:52 AM
Goaltending is likely to be the least of the Sens concerns.

Habsy
08-07-2014, 09:30 AM
The Bruins are the most hated team in the world.

http://www.rantsports.com/nhl/2014/08/06/boston-bruins-surprisingly-ranked-most-hated-team-in-the-world/

angelfish
08-07-2014, 10:02 AM
The Bruins are the most hated team in the world.

http://www.rantsports.com/nhl/2014/08/06/boston-bruins-surprisingly-ranked-most-hated-team-in-the-world/

+1

corksens
08-07-2014, 10:20 AM
Personally, I like the Bruins.

Bleedsblue&white
08-07-2014, 10:21 AM
Somehow corks, that makes sense.

corksens
08-07-2014, 10:29 AM
Big rivals of my two most hated teams (habs and Leafs) and did all of us a huge service humiliating the Canucks in the finals.

Hard to hate that.

zeke
08-07-2014, 11:09 AM
For the first time in my life, i kinda wish the leafs would just tank this year.

Mcdavid's the real deal, and a tank would flush out the remaining crap managment.

Volcanologist
08-07-2014, 11:47 AM
It's possible we'll be in the lottery, but it won't be on purpose.

LeafGm
08-07-2014, 11:58 AM
Unless the team experiences some epic injury problems, they won't be bad enough to finish in the basement.

Though I guess under the new draft lottery rules, every team finishing out of the playoffs has at least a chance at the #1 overall pick.

Habsy
08-07-2014, 01:56 PM
For the first time in my life, i kinda wish the leafs would just tank this year.

Mcdavid's the real deal, and a tank would flush out the remaining crap managment.

As a Habs fan I would absolutely hate seeing McDavid on the Leafs. Heck Eichel even.

Artnes
08-07-2014, 01:58 PM
Stamkos in 16 will be a decent consolation prize

Habsy
08-07-2014, 01:58 PM
Big rivals of my two most hated teams (habs and Leafs) and did all of us a huge service humiliating the Canucks in the finals.

Hard to hate that.

So you're basically admitting your hate for the Leafs and Habs is greater than your love for the Senators.

Habsy
08-07-2014, 01:58 PM
Stamkos in 16 will be a decent consolation prize

Keep dreaming. Tampa will throw max contract at him.

LeafGm
08-07-2014, 02:03 PM
Yeah, Stamkos will do exactly what PK Subban and many other Toronto-born stars have done before him.

He'll throw some fear into his current team by making some noises about coming home and he'll pointedly refuse to rule out the possibility, and then when his current team backs the Brinks truck up to his front door, he'll sign on the dotted line.

Artnes
08-07-2014, 02:04 PM
Dreaming aside, if he is looking to cash in then sigining with the Leafs will be a much more lucrative option.

The additional endorsement deals alone would trump that extra year Tampa could offer.

LeafGm
08-07-2014, 02:05 PM
Dreaming aside, if he is looking to cash in then sigining with the Leafs will be a much more lucrative option.

The additional endorsement deals alone would trump that extra year Tampa could offer.
Isn't the income tax in Florida also ridiculously lower than what he'd pay in Toronto though?

Cojo
08-07-2014, 02:20 PM
I don't know the specifics, but i'd actually be surprised for income tax purposes if players get taxed in the state or province which their home team resides.

Not only that, but if that were true, then its not really a level playing field for cap purposes for some teams.

leafman101
08-07-2014, 02:21 PM
Eventually one of these big free agents will test free agency. It happened with Hossa and Kovy. It'll happen again.

corksens
08-07-2014, 03:19 PM
So you're basically admitting your hate for the Leafs and Habs is greater than your love for the Senators.zuh?

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-07-2014, 05:51 PM
I don't know the specifics, but i'd actually be surprised for income tax purposes if players get taxed in the state or province which their home team resides.

Not only that, but if that were true, then its not really a level playing field for cap purposes for some teams.

they are taxed where they earn the income

Pronger84
08-07-2014, 09:53 PM
Keep dreaming. Tampa will throw max contract at him.

I think pretty much most teams will offer Stamkos the max contract, money won't be the issue here. What its going to come down to is which team can prove to him they have the best shot at winning the cup, the team that can do that is the team Stammer signs off on.

I have no doubt Tampa throws the biggest contract at him but do they really have a legit directiong going forward?

About the Leafs- One of my sisters friend's was his buddy a few years ago and he told her his dream was to be Leaf and he never wanted Tampa to draft him.... keep in mind this was a few years ago and given that the Leafs are a cluster**** of a team currently I doubt signs here, if the Leafs can get their acts together and continue to build a solid foundation (like they have been ding this offseaon) then there's a shot he signs here 2016.

Habspatrol
08-07-2014, 11:09 PM
I think pretty much most teams will offer Stamkos the max contract, money won't be the issue here. What its going to come down to is which team can prove to him they have the best shot at winning the cup, the team that can do that is the team Stammer signs off on.

I have no doubt Tampa throws the biggest contract at him but do they really have a legit directiong going forward?

About the Leafs- One of my sisters friend's was his buddy a few years ago and he told her his dream was to be Leaf and he never wanted Tampa to draft him.... keep in mind this was a few years ago and given that the Leafs are a cluster**** of a team currently I doubt signs here, if the Leafs can get their acts together and continue to build a solid foundation (like they have been ding this offseaon) then there's a shot he signs here 2016.

He'll re-sign in Tampa... and not just cause they're the only team that can give him 8 years either. He can also sign an extension an entire year before becoming a UFA which gives him security in knowing that injuries can't affect his next contract. Also Florida has the lowest taxes, and he's been living in the sunshine state since he was 18. All these are factors that no other team has.

MindzEye
08-07-2014, 11:46 PM
If Stamkos left T Bay for Toronto it would be for one reason only, that it's his dream. Possible? Sure. Likely? Nope.

Habsy
08-08-2014, 11:15 AM
I think pretty much most teams will offer Stamkos the max contract, money won't be the issue here. What its going to come down to is which team can prove to him they have the best shot at winning the cup, the team that can do that is the team Stammer signs off on.

I have no doubt Tampa throws the biggest contract at him but do they really have a legit directiong going forward?

About the Leafs- One of my sisters friend's was his buddy a few years ago and he told her his dream was to be Leaf and he never wanted Tampa to draft him.... keep in mind this was a few years ago and given that the Leafs are a cluster**** of a team currently I doubt signs here, if the Leafs can get their acts together and continue to build a solid foundation (like they have been ding this offseaon) then there's a shot he signs here 2016.

And Crosby's dream was to be a Hab. He got over that quickly. They all do.

Seriously doubt Stamkos moves unless Tampa somehow screws the pooch and insults him badly.

Volcanologist
08-08-2014, 11:46 AM
It's not going to happen. Losing Stamkos would be a devastating blow to that franchise. If your franchise can't keep that kind of player, especially with the advantages of the new CBA in these situations, you might as well pack up the tent anyway.

LeafGm
08-08-2014, 11:57 AM
And Crosby's dream was to be a Hab. He got over that quickly. They all do.

Seriously doubt Stamkos moves unless Tampa somehow screws the pooch and insults him badly.
Yep. I may be a die-hard Leaf fan, but if I had moved to Florida at 18 years of age and spent 6 or 7 years making millions of dollars, and then had an 8-year contract shoved under my nose for even more obscene gobs of money, I can see how I might be inclined to just stay where I am.

The next time a superstar player chooses to forgo that money and the city they've spent most of their adulthood in to go play in their hometown, it'll be the first time. I won't hold my breath waiting for us to be the lucky team it happens to.

UWHabs
08-08-2014, 12:24 PM
Yep. I may be a die-hard Leaf fan, but if I had moved to Florida at 18 years of age and spent 6 or 7 years making millions of dollars, and then had an 8-year contract shoved under my nose for even more obscene gobs of money, I can see how I might be inclined to just stay where I am.

The next time a superstar player chooses to forgo that money and the city they've spent most of their adulthood in to go play in their hometown, it'll be the first time. I won't hold my breath waiting for us to be the lucky team it happens to.

Hard to turn down a guaranteed 100M dollars to live in Florida. And if he really wants to play for the Leafs, he can always demand a trade there a couple years after he signs his big deal.

Krustchev
08-08-2014, 12:57 PM
When did Montreal become this powerhouse that would definitely be ahead of any team in the division save for a team like Ottawa and Buffalo?

Not a powerhouse but their record since the last lockout ended is excellent. You can't just ignore that. It's a team that is trending upward. I expect 2nd or 3rd in the division again but I wouldn't be shocked if they pass Boston, although it's unlikely as the Bruins are still the best built team for an 82 game grind.

As for TML, everyone wants to focus on their last season collapse but if not for Bernier's excellence in the first 55-60 games, they would have been near the bottom of the division. Can he do it again? We'll know soon enough. Point is that while the Leafs vastly underachieved after the Olympics, they probably overachieved before then. The real Leafs team probably lies somewhere in between those two extremes, i.e., they will have to work very hard to be a WC playoff team in the East.

MindzEye
08-08-2014, 01:24 PM
As for TML, everyone wants to focus on their last season collapse but if not for Bernier's excellence in the first 55-60 games, they would have been near the bottom of the division. Can he do it again?

Yeah, can he post a SV% roughly around his career average again? Only time will tell, right? We need Bernier and Reimer to be Bernier and Reimer and that's about it. The season went off the wheels last year when two injured goalies weren't able to save the team from it's shitty possession play any more.





We'll know soon enough. Point is that while the Leafs vastly underachieved after the Olympics, they probably overachieved before then. The real Leafs team probably lies somewhere in between those two extremes, i.e., they will have to work very hard to be a WC playoff team in the East.

On an individual level, nobody on the Leafs really over achieved last season. Where they failed is in systems play (possession, etc). Which as I've pointed out numerous times using historical data, has little to do with the personnel as every single one of them have been adequate or better possession players under other systems, other coaches.

On a talent basis alone, the Leafs are one of the top 3-4 clubs in the east. I don't have a lot of faith in Randy getting the best out of this lineup though.

corksens
08-08-2014, 01:28 PM
He played above his career average for the better part of the season - making more saves per game than he's ever had to as well. When that number started to normalize so did the Leafs W's.

I know how much you like to harp on goaltending stats...try to remain consistent in that application, thanks.

MindzEye
08-08-2014, 01:40 PM
He played above his career average for the better part of the season - making more saves per game than he's ever had to as well. When that number started to normalize so did the Leafs W's.

I know how much you like to harp on goaltending stats...try to remain consistent in that application, thanks.

You realize that there's a big difference between a young, talented goalie playing ~.05-.08 above his career mark and a veteran playing .25 over his career mark, right?

Volcanologist
08-08-2014, 02:06 PM
"Career mark" carries a lot more weight when talking about a 32 year old journeyman.

We don't know what Bernier's career mark is yet.

corksens
08-08-2014, 02:20 PM
A .08% increase in save percentage while facing more and tougher shots than in the past.

Again, once he leveled out the Leafs loses piled up.

zeke
08-08-2014, 02:32 PM
Bernier posted a .922 last year and the year before, ages 24-25.

His career mark since age 19 is .918.

His career mark since age 21 (i.e. Whole career minus his 4gm stint at 19) is .920.

What are you guys arguing about exactly?

Volcanologist
08-08-2014, 02:36 PM
A .08% increase in save percentage while facing more and tougher shots than in the past.

Again, once he leveled out the Leafs loses piled up.

?

Tell me more of this levelling out of which you speak.

MindzEye
08-08-2014, 02:37 PM
A .08% increase in save percentage while facing more and tougher shots than in the past.

Again, once he leveled out the Leafs loses piled up.

I love that getting shelled in a handful of late season games that he had clearly come back from injury too early (there were games he couldn't get down in the butterfly for ffs) has come to equal "leveled out"

The intellectual dishonesty knows no bounds

Pronger84
08-08-2014, 04:36 PM
It's not going to happen. Losing Stamkos would be a devastating blow to that franchise. If your franchise can't keep that kind of player, ot especially with the advantages of the new CBA in these situations, you might as well pack up the tent anyway.

It's out of Tampa's control though, he's set to become a UFA in 2016 which means they will no longer control his rights. All they can do is offer him a boat load of money, and attempt to prove to him they have what it takes to be a winning franchise and then hope and pray he resigns with them.

I'm not saying he won't re-up with them, but there's no gurantee he does either and for the record I'm not some Leaf home who thinks he signs here either.

Volcanologist
08-08-2014, 04:58 PM
It's out of Tampa's control though, he's set to become a UFA in 2016 which means they will no longer control his rights. All they can do is offer him a boat load of money, and attempt to prove to him they have what it takes to be a winning franchise and then hope and pray he resigns with them.

I'm not saying he won't re-up with them, but there's no gurantee he does either and for the record I'm not some Leaf home who thinks he signs here either.

Holy shit. Really??

Pronger84
08-08-2014, 05:06 PM
Holy shit. Really??

You are the one trying to throw your opinion around as if it's fact by saying "its not going to happen". Nobody knows with Stamkos, maybe he signs with TB and maybe he doesn't, we'll have to wait until 2016 to find that out.

Habspatrol
08-08-2014, 06:14 PM
You are the one trying to throw your opinion around as if it's fact by saying "its not going to happen". Nobody knows with Stamkos, maybe he signs with TB and maybe he doesn't, we'll have to wait until 2016 to find that out.

I bet we find out next summer... that he's staying in T-Bay for another 8 years.

MindzEye
08-08-2014, 07:13 PM
You are the one trying to throw your opinion around as if it's fact by saying "its not going to happen". Nobody knows with Stamkos, maybe he signs with TB and maybe he doesn't, we'll have to wait until 2016 to find that out.

The problem with statements like this is that it assumes that all outcomes have an equal probability of occurring.

"Nobody knows"....well, that's not really true. We know from observation and experience that the vast majority of marquee players sign extensions with their current teams. Shit, even among the players who "left", Kovalchuk stayed with the club he had finished the previous season with.

We don't have to wait until 2016 to know that there exists an extremely high likelihood that Stamkos will sign an extension with Tampa Bay. Even if he really wants to leave, he'll sign the extension (8 > 7) and push his way out via trade after he gets the contract he wants.

Metalleaf
08-08-2014, 07:23 PM
I'd say Tavares has a much better shot of signing with the Leafs than Stamkos, but in the end, neither will. If we want superstars we'll have to draft them.

MindzEye
08-08-2014, 07:31 PM
I'd say Tavares has a much better shot of signing with the Leafs than Stamkos, but in the end, neither will. If we want superstars we'll have to draft them.

It's just too hard for these guys to pass up the huge contracts offered them by their current clubs. I could definitely see one of them pushing their way out the door of a dysfunctional situations (Hi JT!!) and having Toronto very high on the short list of clubs they'd be willing to leave for....but I don't see (m)any of them exploring free agency.

It's a lot more likely that we get another star the way that we got Kessel (legitimately told his current club to **** off, and would only really accept a trade to Toronto) than it is that we land on in unrestricted free agency.

Volcanologist
08-08-2014, 07:36 PM
You are the one trying to throw your opinion around as if it's fact by saying "its not going to happen". Nobody knows with Stamkos, maybe he signs with TB and maybe he doesn't, we'll have to wait until 2016 to find that out.

And you're the one who thinks that "most teams can offer him a max contract".

Guess again, Bright Eyes!

corksens
08-08-2014, 07:40 PM
Bright eyes. Love that chirp.

Aberdeen
08-08-2014, 10:50 PM
I'd say Tavares has a much better shot of signing with the Leafs than Stamkos, but in the end, neither will. If we want superstars we'll have to draft them.
Is kessel not a superstar?

lecoqsportif
08-08-2014, 10:52 PM
Ah, fück it. We're winning this thing.

Blueman
08-08-2014, 11:11 PM
Bernier posted a .922 last year and the year before, ages 24-25.

His career mark since age 19 is .918.

His career mark since age 21 (i.e. Whole career minus his 4gm stint at 19) is .920.

What are you guys arguing about exactly?
#TeamReimer says hi

Habsy
08-09-2014, 09:27 AM
You are the one trying to throw your opinion around as if it's fact by saying "its not going to happen". Nobody knows with Stamkos, maybe he signs with TB and maybe he doesn't, we'll have to wait until 2016 to find that out.

It's not going to happen.

$100 bet?

Habsy
08-09-2014, 09:31 AM
I'd say Tavares has a much better shot of signing with the Leafs than Stamkos, but in the end, neither will. If we want superstars we'll have to draft them.

Now there is a player I'd love the Habs to acquire. Too bad he'd cost the entire team.

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 01:52 PM
It's not going to happen.

$100 bet?

You're on.

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 01:56 PM
The problem with statements like this is that it assumes that all outcomes have an equal probability of occurring.

"Nobody knows"....well, that's not really true. We know from observation and experience that the vast majority of marquee players sign extensions with their current teams. Shit, even among the players who "left", Kovalchuk stayed with the club he had finished the previous season with.

We don't have to wait until 2016 to know that there exists an extremely high likelihood that Stamkos will sign an extension with Tampa Bay. Even if he really wants to leave, he'll sign the extension (8 > 7) and push his way out via trade after he gets the contract he wants.

Yes, you're correct in the se very few elite players make it to FA.... I can't even remember the last time a big named guy made it to July 1st. That being said, he hasn't signed an extension as of yet which means there are no guarantees he resigns with the Lightning, that was the point I was trying to convey to Volcolangist. For the record, I'm not going to sit here and say he automatically signs with the Leafs. that would be on the assumpioius side and I'm not going to go there because that's not what this debats about.

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 01:59 PM
Is kessel not a superstar?

Depends on what your definetion of superstar is. To me, he's not up there with guys like Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos and
company but I'd put him inth guys like Patrick Kane, Gabroik and Backstrom.... he' tier 2 player IMO.

hockeylover
08-09-2014, 02:08 PM
It's not going to happen.

$100 bet?


You're on.

This is just mean, Habsy.

Habsy
08-09-2014, 03:02 PM
Pronger's gonna help keep the FI lights on I guess.

JackBurton
08-09-2014, 03:05 PM
Stamkos will get a huge 8 year deal and sign again in Tampa. Players just can't turn down that money.

However, in the case of Mike Babcock, the truck load of cash will work and he'll be the next Leafs coach.

Montana
08-09-2014, 03:17 PM
You're on.


If you want to double down on that bet, I'm interested.

hockeylover
08-09-2014, 03:24 PM
Stamkos will get a huge 8 year deal and sign again in Tampa. Players just can't turn down that money.

However, in the case of Mike Babcock, the truck load of cash will work and he'll be the next Leafs coach.

I actually really agree. We have a chance with Babcock, IMO.

Montana
08-09-2014, 03:32 PM
I think there's a legit chance that the coach Shanny is waiting on isn't Babcock, so much as it's Peter DeBoer.




....especially if some of us are right, and Dubas is the plan long term at GM. DeBoer would be the ideal coach to pair with him, imo.

JackBurton
08-09-2014, 03:35 PM
He did apparently want Deboer, but now we have to hope for him to be fired. He is a great puck possession coach. That Jersey team is really mediocre. He gets them overachieving yearly.

Babcock would have signed already in Detroit if he was staying imo.

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 04:23 PM
This board has some skewed logic-

Stamkos hasn't signed an extension with the Lightning yet it's all but a shoe-in that he signs long term with them, yet Babcock hasn't signed an extension with the Wings yet there's not only a good chance he walks but agrees to coach here... mmkay?

Montana
08-09-2014, 04:29 PM
He did apparently want Deboer, but now we have to hope for him to be fired. He is a great puck possession coach. That Jersey team is really mediocre. He gets them overachieving yearly.

Actually when Deboer was talked about originally....the hope was that he might get fired, and this be available...because he was already under contract for 2014-15....but next season he's a free agent.

Unless he signed an extension I'm unaware of.

Montana
08-09-2014, 04:32 PM
This board has some skewed logic-

Stamkos hasn't signed an extension with the Lightning yet it's all but a shoe-in that he signs long term with them, yet Babcock hasn't signed an extension with the Wings yet there's not only a good chance he walks but agrees to coach here... mmkay?


One needs to be signed within a cap system that limits what they can be paid, and has mechanisms to enable them to make more money if they remain with their current team.

While the other has no such restrictions or mechanisms impacting where he can sign, and for how much.....solely the laws of the free market and almighty dollar.

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 04:36 PM
Well aware of that players have to work witin the salary cap, and coaches don't count against it. That doesn't take away from my point that this board has some serious double standards going on here, there is no gurantee Stamkos signs with Tampa just as there's no lock for Babcock leaving Detroit....

Habspatrol
08-09-2014, 04:56 PM
Well aware of that players have to work witin the salary cap, and coaches don't count against it. That doesn't take away from my point that this board has some serious double standards going on here, there is no gurantee Stamkos signs with Tampa just as there's no lock for Babcock leaving Detroit....

Nobody is saying that Stamkos will 100% guaranteed stay with Tampa... but it's extremely likely that he will. There are so many factors that make it the most likely scenario that it's hard to imagine him signing anywhere else.

MindzEye
08-09-2014, 04:57 PM
Well aware of that players have to work witin the salary cap, and coaches don't count against it. That doesn't take away from my point that this board has some serious double standards going on here, there is no gurantee Stamkos signs with Tampa just as there's no lock for Babcock leaving Detroit....

Why do you continue to deal in absolutes? No, there's no lock of anything occurring. There's also no lock (just to borrow your logic for a moment) that an asteroid won't strike the ****ing earth tomorrow morning. What matters is probabilities. The probability of Stamkos leaving Tampa Bay is extremely low. How do we know this? As I mentioned earlier, through observation and a small exercise in logical thought. Clubs have the ability to negotiate a contract extension one season previous to the current contract expiring. Tampa Bay will absolutely exercise this ability and can offer Stamkos more term than anyone else can. They will throw a very large number at him to keep him and Stamkos will very likely take that very large number and stay. Even if he wants to leave Tampa at some point in the future, it makes a lot of sense for him to take the additional year (probably worth something like 10-11 million dollars) to stay. There's a lot of risk for a guy like Stamkos in receiving a career threatening injury that would severely limit his economic worth in the league. This is exactly why so few of these type of players become free agents, it's just too risky to turn down the huge, guaranteed contracts.

On the other hand, regarding Babcock, he has no concerns about an injury ruining his market value so there is no imperative for him to sign an extension with his club at the moment. In fact, it makes a **** ton of economic sense for him to test free agency as he's heard the same rumours (probably much better rumours, tbh) that we have concerning the Leafs being very interested in his services.

TL;DR - Stamkos risks losing money if he doesn't extend, Babock risks losing money if he extends. Most people are risk averse.

MindzEye
08-09-2014, 04:59 PM
Nobody is saying that Stamkos will 100% guaranteed stay with Tampa...

**** that. I'm saying with 100% certainty that Stamkos signs a maximum length contract extension with Tampa Bay. Whether or not he "stays" is another argument, but he will absolutely sign a max length extension for a lot of money next summer. 100% chance.

JackBurton
08-09-2014, 05:54 PM
This board has some skewed logic-

Stamkos hasn't signed an extension with the Lightning yet it's all but a shoe-in that he signs long term with them, yet Babcock hasn't signed an extension with the Wings yet there's not only a good chance he walks but agrees to coach here... mmkay?

Coaches change teams all the time. Franchise players never make it to UFA status.

And if Babcock was going to stay, I feel he would have signed already.

JackBurton
08-09-2014, 05:56 PM
Actually when Deboer was talked about originally....the hope was that he might get fired, and this be available...because he was already under contract for 2014-15....but next season he's a free agent.

Unless he signed an extension I'm unaware of.

I'm pretty sure jersey did sign him to an extension a couple of months ago.

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 06:39 PM
Why do you continue to deal in absolutes? No, there's no lock of anything occurring. There's also no lock (just to borrow your logic for a moment) that an asteroid won't strike the ****ing earth tomorrow morning. What matters is probabilities. The probability of Stamkos leaving Tampa Bay is extremely low. How do we know this? As I mentioned earlier, through observation and a small exercise in logical thought. Clubs have the ability to negotiate a contract extension one season previous to the current contract expiring. Tampa Bay will absolutely exercise this ability and can offer Stamkos more term than anyone else can. They will throw a very large number at him to keep him and Stamkos will very likely take that very large number and stay. Even if he wants to leave Tampa at some point in the future, it makes a lot of sense for him to take the additional year (probably worth something like 10-11 million dollars) to stay. There's a lot of risk for a guy like Stamkos in receiving a career threatening injury that would severely limit his economic worth in the league. This is exactly why so few of these type of players become free agents, it's just too risky to turn down the huge, guaranteed contracts.

On the other hand, regarding Babcock, he has no concerns about an injury ruining his market value so there is no imperative for him to sign an extension with his club at the moment. In fact, it makes a **** ton of economic sense for him to test free agency as he's heard the same rumours (probably much better rumours, tbh) that we have concerning the Leafs being very interested in his services.

TL;DR - Stamkos risks losing money if he doesn't extend, Babock risks losing money if he extends. Most people are risk averse.

I'm not dealing in absolutes, if I were then I would be saying things such as "No way does Stamkos sign with the Lightning, he'll go out west where he has a better shot in 2016", that would be talking in abosloutes as you call it, all I am saying is there is no gurantee he signs with them just as there's no gurantee Detroit doesn't sign Babcock before next season expires.

Just so we're clear here, personally I do believe that the odds of Stamkos re-signing a long term deal with the Bolts is a lot higher then his odds of leaving the franchise to pursure the open market, we are in agreement on that part. I'm just pointing out until he either signs on the dotted line with them or openly rejects their offer (whatever it may be) to tes he open market, that both possible scenerios do exist which is the point I have been attempting to make since the beginning of this debate.

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 06:40 PM
**** that. I'm saying with 100% certainty that Stamkos signs a maximum length contract extension with Tampa Bay. Whether or not he "stays" is another argument, but he will absolutely sign a max length extension for a lot of money next summer. 100% chance.

Heh, now who is dealing in absoloutes?

Pronger84
08-09-2014, 07:02 PM
I think there's a legit chance that the coach Shanny is waiting on isn't Babcock, so much as it's Peter DeBoer.




....especially if some of us are right, and Dubas is the plan long term at GM. DeBoer would be the ideal coach to pair with him, imo.

Ummm... DeBoer re-upped with the Devils.

IrishWolfman
08-10-2014, 01:07 AM
Why do you continue to deal in absolutes? No, there's no lock of anything occurring. There's also no lock (just to borrow your logic for a moment) that an asteroid won't strike the ****ing earth tomorrow morning. What matters is probabilities. The probability of Stamkos leaving Tampa Bay is extremely low. How do we know this? As I mentioned earlier, through observation and a small exercise in logical thought. Clubs have the ability to negotiate a contract extension one season previous to the current contract expiring. Tampa Bay will absolutely exercise this ability and can offer Stamkos more term than anyone else can. They will throw a very large number at him to keep him and Stamkos will very likely take that very large number and stay. Even if he wants to leave Tampa at some point in the future, it makes a lot of sense for him to take the additional year (probably worth something like 10-11 million dollars) to stay. There's a lot of risk for a guy like Stamkos in receiving a career threatening injury that would severely limit his economic worth in the league. This is exactly why so few of these type of players become free agents, it's just too risky to turn down the huge, guaranteed contracts.

On the other hand, regarding Babcock, he has no concerns about an injury ruining his market value so there is no imperative for him to sign an extension with his club at the moment. In fact, it makes a **** ton of economic sense for him to test free agency as he's heard the same rumours (probably much better rumours, tbh) that we have concerning the Leafs being very interested in his services.

TL;DR - Stamkos risks losing money if he doesn't extend, Babock risks losing money if he extends. Most people are risk averse.


3603

MindzEye
08-10-2014, 01:48 AM
Heh, now who is dealing in absoloutes?

I am now. The difference of course is that I'm saying that something which is almost guaranteed to happen, is going to happen. The Sun is going to rise in the morning, and Stamkos is going to sign the 80-90 million dollar contract Tampa Bay offers him.

You're saying that we can't possibly know what's going to happen, which is more than a little bit silly.

MindzEye
08-10-2014, 01:49 AM
Just so we're clear here, personally I do believe that the odds of Stamkos re-signing a long term deal with the Bolts is a lot higher then his odds of leaving the franchise to pursure the open market, we are in agreement on that part. I'm just pointing out until he either signs on the dotted line with them or openly rejects their offer (whatever it may be) to tes he open market, that both possible scenerios do exist which is the point I have been attempting to make since the beginning of this debate.

At this point, you're really just wasting your time on a keyboard. This is the art of typing a lot of characters without actually saying anything.

Montana
08-10-2014, 01:51 AM
At this point, you're really just wasting your time on a keyboard. This is the art of typing a lot of characters without actually saying anything.



You're far too kind.

Habspatrol
08-10-2014, 01:58 AM
I'm not dealing in absolutes, if I were then I would be saying things such as "No way does Stamkos sign with the Lightning, he'll go out west where he has a better shot in 2016", that would be talking in abosloutes as you call it, all I am saying is there is no gurantee he signs with them just as there's no gurantee Detroit doesn't sign Babcock before next season expires.

Just so we're clear here, personally I do believe that the odds of Stamkos re-signing a long term deal with the Bolts is a lot higher then his odds of leaving the franchise to pursure the open market, we are in agreement on that part. I'm just pointing out until he either signs on the dotted line with them or openly rejects their offer (whatever it may be) to tes he open market, that both possible scenerios do exist which is the point I have been attempting to make since the beginning of this debate.
But yet you bet Habsy $100 that he'd leave?

MindzEye
08-10-2014, 02:08 AM
You're far too kind.

What can I say? I'm not the scumbag rage case some people think I am.

Wayward DP
08-10-2014, 03:12 AM
You're far too kind.

What do robots know about kindness?

Pronger84
08-10-2014, 04:40 PM
But yet you bet Habsy $100 that he'd leave?

What can I say, I like a good challenge.

corksens
08-11-2014, 10:11 AM
?

Tell me more of this levelling out of which you speak.He played at a .910% SV in March and April.

Imagine this...the Leafs went on a skid.

MindzEye
08-11-2014, 10:18 AM
He played at a .910% SV in March and April.

Imagine this...the Leafs went on a skid.



Funny that you mention the Leafs going on a skid when Bernier put up a .910. In the 10 games Bernier played in during March & April, the Leafs were 6-3-1

Also adorable of course that you conveniently ignore his groin injury during that period. You know, the reason that our starter only played 10 games down the stretch?

Try harder man, **** this was a weak attempt. At least reference check your bullshit first.

If we want to talk about skids and the reason for them, we can start with James Reimer's .896 in March though. Yeah, that was 1-7. Bernier's .907 gave us a 3-3-1.

So yeah, tell me more about the reason for our skid.

Habsy
08-11-2014, 10:27 AM
What can I say, I like a good challenge.

Challenge?

Unless the challenge you refer to is that of making a good bet, I don't see how the bet is a "challenge".

corksens
08-11-2014, 10:31 AM
You can take it a step further, actually. Reimer and Bernier both started slumping from January onward.

Opener to Dec 31st
Reimer = .925%
Bernier = .930%

Jan 1st to Seasons End
Reimer = .894%
Bernier = .916%

Bernier's NHL average is .918% (including last year). So when he plays well above his NHL average the Leafs won games. When he reverts back to his career average, the Leafs flounder.

Exactly what I said.

zeke
08-11-2014, 10:37 AM
What was his record from jan 1 on?

leafman101
08-11-2014, 10:45 AM
What was his record from jan 1 on?

14-8-3 (102 point pace)

leafman101
08-11-2014, 10:46 AM
Even in his .910 March and April his record was 4-3-1 (92 point pace)

LeafGm
08-11-2014, 10:48 AM
What was his record from jan 1 on?

Jonathan Bernier:

Before January 1st: 19-16-5
After January 1st: 9-4-2

James Reimer:

Before January 1st: 11-10-3
After January 1st: 2-10-0

zeke
08-11-2014, 10:51 AM
Heh.

Volcanologist
08-11-2014, 11:00 AM
He played at a .910% SV in March and April.

Imagine this...the Leafs went on a skid.

He had a groin injury, dummy.

Blueman
08-11-2014, 11:00 AM
What was his record from jan 1 on?

Thought records don't matter for goalies?

leafman101
08-11-2014, 11:01 AM
They do when the guy is arguing the Leafs floundered with Bernier in net after January 1.

corksens
08-11-2014, 11:05 AM
Of course he was also doing that while making more saves than any other goalie. No top goaltending, no Leafs playoffs.

Volcanologist
08-11-2014, 11:06 AM
The Leafs really floundered as soon as Reimer had to go back in goal.

leafman101
08-11-2014, 11:08 AM
Of course he was also doing that while making more saves than any other goalie. No top goaltending, no Leafs playoffs.

Yep. Kessel and Bernier carried the team on their backs last year.

Blueman
08-11-2014, 11:34 AM
They do when the guy is arguing the Leafs floundered with Bernier in net after January 1.

Was just taking a poke at Zeke who has stated goalies should not count wins/losses as part of their record. (was in jest)

Bleedsblue&white
08-11-2014, 11:47 AM
Of course he was also doing that while making more saves than any other goalie. No top goaltending, no Leafs playoffs.
Last year, absolutely.

hockeylover
08-11-2014, 12:07 PM
Can't believe we're even talking about goaltending really.

JackBurton
08-11-2014, 12:40 PM
Bernier was one of the best goalies in the NHL last season.

Habspatrol
08-11-2014, 12:54 PM
Challenge?

Unless the challenge you refer to is that of making a good bet, I don't see how the bet is a "challenge".

I was going to say something about that. A "challenge" implies he has some impact on the outcome.

Bleedsblue&white
08-11-2014, 02:04 PM
Maybe he doesn't understand what being challenged means?

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-11-2014, 02:53 PM
The Leafs really floundered as soon as Reimer had to go back in goal.

I so remember when he was flavour of the month in Toronto. Optimus Reim, the next great one.

Just like Toskala before he was proven to be shit, Gustavsson before he was run out of town etc.

How long until it is no longer Bernier but Burnier?

hockeylover
08-11-2014, 03:26 PM
Of course. If a goalie doesn't succeed for a team it must mean that every goalie in the future will also not succeed.

Volcanologist
08-11-2014, 03:59 PM
I so remember when he was flavour of the month in Toronto. Optimus Reim, the next great one.

Just like Toskala before he was proven to be shit, Gustavsson before he was run out of town etc.

How long until it is no longer Bernier but Burnier?

What? First off, Reimer hasn't "proven to be shit". Toskala's best save percentage with the Leafs was .904. Gustavsson's was .902. Any particular reason you trying to compare Bernier to those two?

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-11-2014, 04:01 PM
Of course. If a goalie doesn't succeed for a team it must mean that every goalie in the future will also not succeed.
Your team does have a good receny history of failure in nets.

TheCountofMonteCristo
08-11-2014, 04:04 PM
What? First off, Reimer hasn't "proven to be shit". Toskala's best save percentage with the Leafs was .904. Gustavsson's was .902. Any particular reason you trying to compare Bernier to those two?
Reimer was finished in Toronto after meltdown in Boston. Management no longer saw him as the saviour and picked up Bernier.

The other two were flavours of the month for a while until shown to be nothing more than career backups. A significant number of posters were high on them until they weren't.

hockeylover
08-11-2014, 04:20 PM
Your team does have a good receny history of failure in nets.

Way to miss the point.

leafman101
08-11-2014, 04:41 PM
Your team does have a good receny history of failure in nets.

Depends what you mean by recent.

The last two years they have received top 10 goaltending.

Wayward DP
08-11-2014, 06:53 PM
Reimer will prove the haters wrong.

JackBurton
08-12-2014, 12:38 AM
Reimer has been very solid in Toronto.

I don't think anyone on this board thought Toskala was anything special.

JohnnyHolmes
08-12-2014, 03:32 AM
Reimer has been very solid in Toronto.

I don't think anyone on this board thought Toskala was anything special.

Oh, he was special in his own way.

Habsy
08-12-2014, 09:37 AM
Can't believe we're even talking about goaltending really.

Muscle memory.

Habsy
08-12-2014, 09:38 AM
Maybe he doesn't understand what being challenged means?

LOL,

love the double entendre there.

Bleedsblue&white
08-12-2014, 11:20 AM
Thank you, I tried.

Volcanologist
08-12-2014, 12:10 PM
Reimer was finished in Toronto after meltdown in Boston. Management no longer saw him as the saviour and picked up Bernier.

The other two were flavours of the month for a while until shown to be nothing more than career backups. A significant number of posters were high on them until they weren't.

okay, fantastic...are you going to answer my question though?

corksens
08-12-2014, 02:25 PM
Played pick up at noon today - on the ice before us was a group of NHL'ers.

Zibanejad, Turris, Neil, Phillips, Weircioch, couple of Winterpeg Jets and some obvious Euro league players.

Watching right up close, man those guys can fly...and not to mention chew up the ice.

Artnes
08-12-2014, 02:32 PM
Had a chance to watch Iginla and Smitty play pick up and it was insane how much better they were than guys in leagues just below them (AHL, Euro)

You really appreciate how talented these guys are when you get up close like that

worm
08-12-2014, 02:50 PM
You mean the best players in the world are the best players?

Crazy :p

JohnnyHolmes
08-12-2014, 05:55 PM
I played pick up with a couple of OHL'ers nobody has ever heard of some years ago, and it was ridiculous how effortless everything they did seemed.

JohnnyHolmes
08-14-2014, 12:21 AM
For your lel's courtesy of Don Brennan:

After Erik Karlsson's overall talent, there's Jared Cowen's size and strength, Chris Phillips' experience and leadership, Marc Methot's steadiness and locker room presence, Erik Gryba's stature and own-zone diligence, Mark Borowiecki's toughness and heart, Ceci's dependability and mobility.

corksens
08-14-2014, 08:57 AM
Cowen is strong? I've never seen that put to use.

IrishWolfman
08-14-2014, 09:06 AM
For your lel's courtesy of Don Brennan:

After Erik Karlsson's overall talent, there's Jared Cowen's size and strength, Chris Phillips' experience and leadership, Marc Methot's steadiness and locker room presence, Erik Gryba's stature and own-zone diligence, Mark Borowiecki's toughness and heart, Ceci's dependability and mobility.

Translation:

Jared Cowen's big, Chris Phillips is old, Marc Methot's a nice guy, Erik Gryba's tall, Mark Borowiecki can beat you up and Ceci can skate.

corksens
08-14-2014, 10:42 AM
The Sens blueline is really just one good defenseman away from being strong.

Karlsson XXXXX
Methot Ceci
Cowen Phillips

That's actually a very good defensive unit. The problem is without that XXXXX we have alot of players playing in roles they either aren't ready for or just simply don't have the talent to succeed in.

JohnnyHolmes
08-14-2014, 01:52 PM
The Sens blueline is really just one good defenseman away from being strong.

Karlsson XXXXX
Methot Ceci
Cowen Phillips

That's actually a very good defensive unit. The problem is without that XXXXX we have alot of players playing in roles they either aren't ready for or just simply don't have the talent to succeed in.

and we all know that XXXXX = Chara

Wayward DP
08-17-2014, 05:31 AM
cowen-phillips could be the slowest pairing in the league

soco22
08-17-2014, 09:01 AM
The Sens blueline is really just one good defenseman away from being strong.

Karlsson XXXXX
Methot Ceci
Cowen Phillips

That's actually a very good defensive unit. The problem is without that XXXXX we have alot of players playing in roles they either aren't ready for or just simply don't have the talent to succeed in.

They'll look like a very good defensive unit under a likely very defensive system with strong goaltending supporting them.

Prepare yourself to watch some boring ass hockey, where your team can't score.