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leafman101
09-18-2014, 12:13 PM
**** the offseason. Its the ****ing season.


Nonis is having his first presser of the year. Some interesting stuff.

James Mirtle

Nonis says he could see Komarov getting some time on the power play.

Nonis: "Those players that have the higher salaries have to perform... There's other guys that will take their jobs if that doesn't happen."

"There are no spots open and someone's going to lose their job," Nonis says.

Nonis says Kessel's not an issue with the coaching staff. He says Kessel and Spott find the story today funny.

Nonis says he doesn't think Carlyle has to change the team's style of play. Adds the Ducks were a possession team and hard to play against.

Paul Hendrick
Dave Nonis on Nazem Kadri this season : "Naz has to be prepared to play 82 games. ". #TMLtalk

Mark Masters ‏
Carlyle on Kessel: There is a double standard in sports & yes the talented players get more leeway to do what they want

corksens
09-18-2014, 12:25 PM
hi

leafman101
09-18-2014, 12:29 PM
James Mirtle ‏
Carlyle on Lupul-Bozak-Kessel: "We played them in Anaheim. They kicked our butt."


Read in the paper this morning that Carlyle was thinking of swapping Lupul and JVR too.

PKForce81
09-18-2014, 12:33 PM
Was just going to mention that. Music to my ears. Complained about that for so long. He said they will try to make 3 balanced scoring lines. Everything else is same as before..better compete level and so on.

number17
09-18-2014, 12:36 PM
Nonis on Kadri "We need higher compete level from Kadri over 82 games"

Nonis on Clarkson "He just couldn't get going last season. He didn't turn into a bad hockey player over night."

WTF??

And ... Nonis "We won't pick (the roster) based on contract."

You mean like you did last season with #71 there?

leafman101
09-18-2014, 12:37 PM
Yeah, Lupul/Kessel was also just better than JVR/Kessel. Lupul was a ppg, dominant player that year. Lots of people thought he was better than Kessel.

Mark Masters ‏
Carlyle says based on previous chemistry it would be "foolish" not to try Santorelli & Booth together

Sounds like the first draft is:

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
JVR-Kadri-XXX
Booth-Santorelli-XXX
Winnik-Kontiola-XXX

With XXX being some combinaton of Komarov, Clarkson and Frattin, Holland, Leivo or Nylander.

PKForce81
09-18-2014, 12:46 PM
Yeah, Lupul/Kessel was also just better than JVR/Kessel. Lupul was a ppg, dominant player that year. Lots of people thought he was better than Kessel.

Mark Masters ‏
Carlyle says based on previous chemistry it would be "foolish" not to try Santorelli & Booth together

Sounds like the first draft is:

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
JVR-Kadri-XXX
Booth-Santorelli-XXX
Winnik-Kontiola-XXX

With XXX being some combinaton of Komarov, Clarkson and Frattin, Holland, Leivo or Nylander.

Yeah that 2nd line winger is a big question mark...I'd give Clarkson a chance just to see if they can develop some chemistry(probably won't work though as he's just not that good)...Other than that I really like how Leivo works the corners and protects the puck(they need another guy who can do that on Naz's line as JVR sucks at it). Holland is a better player but not as strong on the puck as Leivo. Frattin is a decent option too. Komarov is pretty bad offensively imo and Nylander should go to AHL or back to Europe as he's fairly weak in the corners and probably won't make the team this year(we have enough offense so gotta focus on puck possession guys and 2 way game).

number17
09-18-2014, 12:46 PM
Nonis says he doesn't think Carlyle has to change the team's style of play. Adds the Ducks were a possession team and hard to play against.That's why the sooner Nonis goes and takes Carlyle with him, the better it is for the Leafs.

The Ducks have not been a possession team under Carlyle except for the times when they had the best and 2nd best defensemen on their roster.

LeafGm
09-18-2014, 12:48 PM
That second line right wing spot is going to be the most interesting one to watch in camp. Any one of David Booth, Mike Santorelli, Willam Nylander, Matt Frattin, Leo Komarov, Josh Leivo, Connor Brown or Carter Ashton could end up with that spot. It's all going to come down to training camp.

Hopefully they won't waste too much time giving David Clarkson another try-out in that spot.

Artnes
09-18-2014, 12:50 PM
Maple Leafs Golf and Country Club is put on notice.

leafman101
09-18-2014, 01:05 PM
Paul Hendrick ‏
Dion : "I'm looking forward to starting camp playing on the left side. " Dion added that he welcomes the veteran leadership the club added.


It will be interesting to see how the D shakes out.

Phaneuf-Robidas
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Polak/Granberg

Metalleaf
09-18-2014, 01:06 PM
Dions on the left this year, we will see what a massive difference that makes.

PKForce81
09-18-2014, 01:06 PM
That's why the sooner Nonis goes and takes Carlyle with him, the better it is for the Leafs.

The Ducks have not been a possession team under Carlyle except for the times when they had the best and 2nd best defensemen on their roster.

Nah, they're saying the right things, just don't have enough of those players to play that system. If we go back to playing how the Sens play for example(players just focus on scoring and screw everything else), we'll be even worse. They know what wins Cups so they'll try to go with it. Maybe it will be different with the new additions..We'll see..

PKForce81
09-18-2014, 01:09 PM
Paul Hendrick ‏
Dion : "I'm looking forward to starting camp playing on the left side. " Dion added that he welcomes the veteran leadership the club added.


It will be interesting to see how the D shakes out.

Phaneuf-Robidas
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Polak/Granberg

While i admit those forward lines can give us some decent combos, i still am afraid when i look at this D. That's a lot of bad imo..but again maybe they surprise.

Cojo
09-18-2014, 01:18 PM
I think Gardiner and Rielly really impress this year.

Volcanologist
09-18-2014, 01:20 PM
Nonis says he could see Komarov getting some time on the power play.

hahahaha

number17
09-18-2014, 01:26 PM
Maybe it's just a question of subjective quoting ... but man, does Nonis and Carlyle sound more stupid than ever this year? And they sound more lame-duck than ever too!

It's funny the reporters asked Nonis "Is Carlyle going to coach on a shorter leash than usual this season?" when Nonis HIMSELF is on thin ice.

zeke
09-18-2014, 01:50 PM
i love how all kadri still gets is criticism, even though he's been one of our best corsi forwards, with strong qualcomp, even while posting our 2nd best ppg over the last two years...his first two years in the league.....and that's without getting to play with kessel and without being on the top pp unit.

we should be discussing trying out kadri and kessel together to start the year, not already starting in with the criticism.

VanRyk ----- Kadri ------ Kessel
Lupul ------- Bozak ----- Holland/Leivo/Nylander
Booth ------- Santo ----- Winnik
Komo ------- Konto ----- Clarkson/Frattin/Bodie/Ashton

Phaneuf ------ Robidas
Rielly --------- Polak
Gardiner ------ Franson
(Holzer)

Volcanologist
09-18-2014, 02:05 PM
yeah, the team needs to stop screwing around and give the kid a bigger role. if he disappears again fine, but we don't have enough talent not to at least try it.

leafman101
09-18-2014, 02:30 PM
They should put Kadri on the top PP for sure. He can drive a line on his own though. Him and Kessel don't need each other to produce.

leafman101
09-18-2014, 02:31 PM
It would be nice to see Holland come in and have a good camp and steal someones spot.

Metalleaf
09-18-2014, 04:28 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx1R95fCcAASDMQ.jpg

Hoss
09-18-2014, 04:53 PM
I also think Kadri and Frattin have some chemistry again and with Van Ryk on the left, that could be a fun line.

Jeremy
09-18-2014, 07:57 PM
Leafs posted a bunch of interviews on their youtube channel today:

https://www.youtube.com/user/torontomapleleafs/videos

blacksheep
09-18-2014, 10:46 PM
I also think Kadri and Frattin have some chemistry again and with Van Ryk on the left, that could be a fun line.

That's the line I'd like to see, with Lupul back with Kessel. I doubt Carlyle will do it.

Bleedsblue&white
09-19-2014, 09:00 AM
I think, with Shanny coming in and the obvious talk about changing the way they approach things, it's going to be an entertaining season at the least.

Keeping Randy is big news; how the team responds, what changes may he be asked to make...if we come out flat the media will go straight for the jugular.
Could get ugly.

number17
09-19-2014, 09:05 AM
I think it's really, really stupid Nonis is criticizing Kadri but defending Clarkson. Then again, he's the one who handed out the big contract to Clarkson ... :|

Anyways, for the sake of 'spreading the wealth' and balancing our offense, I'd try:

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Kadri - Frattin / Nylander / Booth / Leivo
Booth / Frattin / Leivo - Santo - Winnik
Uncle Leo - Kont - Clarkson

The problem with that, is Uncle Leo ends up on the 4th line ... but then again, with Kontiola and Clarkson, maybe that 4th line will give us some offense.

The sticky part is, you want Komarov to play on the 3rd line (how do you justify for that contract otherwise?), you know Winnik will not play on the 4th line, and Booth and Santonrelli are also too good to play on the 4th line. Ideally you don't even want to stick Clarkson and his big contract on the 4th line even though that's where it belongs. It seems like we have a nice problem of too many 3rd liners on our team that we'll be sticking 3rd liners on our 4th line.

I think even though I can't fault Carlyle for trying Booth with Santonrelli to begin the season, Booth might be a good fit for 2nd like RW with Kadri. He goes hard to the corner (which JVR doesn't do) and dig up that loose puck for his teammate. He makes his living in the corner, along the board and in front of the net, while at the same time he has the speed and the hockey smarts to keep up with Kadri and JVR. I don't see that from Frattin or Leivo yet.

A JVR - Kadri - Booth 2nd line and a Komarov - Santo - Winnik 3rd line might make more sense down the road, with leivo / Frattin fighting for that 4th line W spot.

leafman101
09-19-2014, 09:10 AM
I think having the depth really helps. For most of last year the Leafs were not even a two line team thanks to injuries to Bolland and Bozak. For most of the year the bottom 6 was Kuly, Clarkson, McClement, Orr, MacLaren, Bodie. Compare that with Booth, Santorelli, Clarkson, Winnik, Komarov, Kontiola, Holland. Its not even close. If someone like Lupul or Clarkson isn't giving Carlyle what he is asking for there are other options.

Also they relied so heavily on Kessel, Phaneuf and Bernier and those guys all wore down by the end of the year. And when those guys slumped a bit they couldn't even win a game.

They should be a playoff team this year. The other bubble teams in the east don't have the kind of top end talent that the Leafs do, and now they have some depth to not just rely on 2 lines. Potentially their 4th line center scored at a 50+ point pace last year.

leafman101
09-19-2014, 09:12 AM
Nonis didn't criticize Kadri at all. If you listen to the whole press conference he was actually very complimentary to him. At one point he said that he wants players to earn the opportunity to play with Phil "and to play with Naz". He put him up there as one of the cornerstones of the offense that other guys need to earn an opportunity to play with him.

All he said was if Kadri puts in the work he'll have a great year. There is nothing wrong, or negative about that.

number17
09-19-2014, 10:23 AM
I think the 12/13 Leafs were fundamentally flawed from a roster makeup perspective, which was compounded by poor season by a few guys even by their standard - Kulemin, McClement, and injury to Bolland. It got so ridiculous to a point we couldn't rely on anyone outside of JVR, Kessel, Kadri for F's. Bozak was injured, Lup was having a poor season. The over-use of these guys probably was a factor in the eventual collapse of the season.

I really hope having more depth and quality in the bottom 6 helps us not only to share the minutes, but to have more quality 3rd / 4th line minutes. Carlyle had better not be using the 4th line for 3-4 minutes a game again.

My conern is not so much the roster, but more Carlyle's system at this point. Poor puck possession has followed Carlyle from ANA to TOR, and do I think it can be fixed over a summer? Nope. I only hope whether he can, or cannot adjust his game, it is revealed early in the season that Shanny & Co. can make a decision on whether to keep him for rest of season or to look for another coach.

zeke
09-19-2014, 10:58 AM
the problem with randy is that while year one was pretty poor but survivable posession wise, year two it got much worse and approached the ridiculous.

i really can't grasp how he is still coach.

SENSible
09-19-2014, 12:15 PM
i love how all kadri still gets is criticism, even though he's been one of our best corsi forwards, with strong qualcomp, even while posting our 2nd best ppg over the last two years...his first two years in the league.....and that's without getting to play with kessel and without being on the top pp unit.

we should be discussing trying out kadri and kessel together to start the year, not already starting in with the criticism.


On Kadri:

It's like the people that work with him day in and day out think he's a lazy, arrogant d-bag that they constantly have to smack down to try and modify his annoying behavior.

Weird.

The fans, who have never spent anytime dealing with him, probably have a much better idea how he should be handled...

corksens
09-19-2014, 12:24 PM
Kadri is a punk. No wonder the old blue hairs in leaf management hate him.

Cojo
09-19-2014, 12:57 PM
Guess you should be thanking us for drafting him then? Considering Murray had Kadri in his sights.

zeke
09-19-2014, 12:59 PM
heh.

poor sens fans.

hating on a 24yr old kid who has outscored everyone on their roster thru his first two years in the league.

corksens
09-19-2014, 01:00 PM
Maybe. TBD really.

This was an interesting article for Sens fans yesterday...


Hockey's best breakout machine belongs to the Ottawa Senators

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/581116

Essentially refuting what HP and alot of Habs fans seem to think about Karlsson's defensive play.

worm
09-19-2014, 01:01 PM
I loves the Hot Karl.

hockeylover
09-19-2014, 01:05 PM
Maybe. TBD really.

This was an interesting article for Sens fans yesterday...

Essentially refuting what HP and alot of Habs fans seem to think about Karlsson's defensive play.

Really groundbreaking stuff here, no one would've guessed Karlsson is a dynamic puck carrier. Way to stick it to the Habs fans!

worm
09-19-2014, 01:07 PM
Poor HP.

SENSible
09-19-2014, 01:09 PM
heh.

poor sens fans.

hating on a 24yr old kid who has outscored everyone on their roster thru his first two years in the league.

The question an intelligent Leaf fan should be asking is not why Sens fans hate Kadri, but why does every Leaf coaching staff and management team he plays for end up hating him in spite of his production...

leafman101
09-19-2014, 01:11 PM
Don't worry guys, the Sens fans will be disappearing real early this year.

zeke
09-19-2014, 01:12 PM
The question an intelligent Leaf fan should be asking is not why Sens fans hate Kadri, but why does every Leaf coaching staff and management team he plays for end up hating him in spite of his production...

you're talking about bobby ryan, right?

Volcanologist
09-19-2014, 01:18 PM
Don't worry guys, the Sens fans will be disappearing real early this year.

yeah that lineup is fugly without Spezza. Not to mention Ryan a goner by the deadline as well.

As long as they don't end up with McJesus I'm good.

SENSible
09-19-2014, 01:21 PM
Really groundbreaking stuff here, no one would've guessed Karlsson is a dynamic puck carrier. Way to stick it to the Habs fans!

From article


And finally, Karlsson is also solid when it comes to defending zone entries, as opponents managed just a 54.5 percent carry-in against rate when they targeted him (very good), and he managed a breakup rate above 10 percent (also very good). He's got a good stick, and isn’t the defensive liability he's made out to be.

SENSible
09-19-2014, 01:23 PM
you're talking about bobby ryan, right?

Feel free to post the quotes ripping Ryan from Sens coaches and management and whatever you do, continue to attempt to deflect instead of dealing with the reality that is Kadri.

corksens
09-19-2014, 01:25 PM
Really groundbreaking stuff here, no one would've guessed Karlsson is a dynamic puck carrier. Way to stick it to the Habs fans!Way to read the article.

zeke
09-19-2014, 01:25 PM
you need me to post them?

hockeylover
09-19-2014, 01:27 PM
From article

Curious - what does a 54.5 percent carry-in against rate mean? I know what it measures but they haven't compared it to other top D here, they've just assured us that it's "very good". Do we have this stat for other top defensemen for a little context?

SENSible
09-19-2014, 01:28 PM
you need me to post them?

Sure. They should be easy to find...i'll have the much more difficult task of trying to find quotes ripping Kadri ;)

Simple question. Why, in your opinion, has every coaching staff and management team the Leafs have employed ripped on Kadri?

hockeylover
09-19-2014, 01:28 PM
Way to read the article.

Sue me, I skimmed and missed the one small paragraph related to defensive play.

zeke
09-19-2014, 01:30 PM
Sure. They should be easy to find...i'll have the much more difficult task of trying to find quotes ripping Kadri ;)

Simple question. Why, in your opinion, has every coaching staff and management team the Leafs have employed ripped on Kadri?

a) because he's a cocky little shit
b) because wilson abd carlyle are idiots who will never have another coaching job

SENSible
09-19-2014, 01:38 PM
a) because he's a cocky little shit
b) because wilson abd carlyle are idiots who will never have another coaching job

a) You forgot lazy, but that is the gist of it. Maybe, just maybe, they know what this jackass needs and are consistently trying to help him learn some tough lessons.
b) the GM's were in on the act too and the out-going president had some interesting comments on the stars character as well.

But whatever you do, don't ever call the players out for being lazy or jerks...just continue to support them while they give the organization less than their best, in spite of being paid handsomely for their best.

Habspatrol
09-19-2014, 01:40 PM
Really groundbreaking stuff here, no one would've guessed Karlsson is a dynamic puck carrier. Way to stick it to the Habs fans!

I feel shame.

Habspatrol
09-19-2014, 01:43 PM
Curious - what does a 54.5 percent carry-in against rate mean? I know what it measures but they haven't compared it to other top D here, they've just assured us that it's "very good". Do we have this stat for other top defensemen for a little context?

It sounds like a made up stat. I have no idea who tracks it or where to find it... and it sounds to me like he fails 45.6% of the time when forced to play defense.

zeke
09-19-2014, 01:45 PM
a) You forgot lazy, but that is the gist of it. Maybe, just maybe, they know what this jackass needs and are consistently trying to help him learn some tough lessons.

or maybe they are idiot dinosaurs whose careers are over?

i take it you respect their comments on, say, the ultra valuable character of david clarkson?




b) the GM's were in on the act too and the out-going president had some interesting comments on the stars character as well.

quotes, please.


But whatever you do, don't ever call the players out for being lazy or jerks...just continue to support them while they give the organization less than their best, in spite of being paid handsomely for their best.

....and then the sens hand bobby ryan $7m+ longterm.

zeke
09-19-2014, 01:49 PM
Curious - what does a 54.5 percent carry-in against rate mean? I know what it measures but they haven't compared it to other top D here, they've just assured us that it's "very good". Do we have this stat for other top defensemen for a little context?

phaneuf, for example, is at 53.1.

i.e. better than hotkarl

Habspatrol
09-19-2014, 01:56 PM
phaneuf, for example, is at 53.1.

i.e. better than hotkarl

Where do you even find it?

zeke
09-19-2014, 02:00 PM
cool new site i found called google.

Habspatrol
09-19-2014, 02:01 PM
I searched "carry-in against rate" and found nada.

Can you just give me a link?

zeke
09-19-2014, 02:08 PM
well, dude hasn't published his data yet (you can get it if you donate to his gofundme.com/allthreezones page), but lets some guys use his data in articles i guess.

you won't find comorehensive league listings but you might find a team article if you're lucky.

i searched "gardiner rielly ohaneuf zone entries" and found this article from last month:

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2014/08/09/rush-shots-defensive-zone-play-maple-leaf-defensemen/

Killer93
09-19-2014, 02:19 PM
On to actual news, Bozak and Clarkson are day-to-day with undisclosed injuries

hockeylover
09-19-2014, 02:35 PM
well, dude hasn't published his data yet (you can get it if you donate to his gofundme.com/allthreezones page), but lets some guys use his data in articles i guess.

you won't find comorehensive league listings but you might find a team article if you're lucky.

i searched "gardiner rielly ohaneuf zone entries" and found this article from last month:

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2014/08/09/rush-shots-defensive-zone-play-maple-leaf-defensemen/

LOL. Carry in against for Fraser? More than 70%!? Sounds about right.

leafman101
09-19-2014, 02:42 PM
Those stats are really interesting. The neutral zone is the one area of the game that is completely undervalued from a statistical perspective. At least what is available to us.

worm
09-19-2014, 03:14 PM
I searched "carry-in against rate" and found nada.

Can you just give me a link?

https://www.google.ca/

Deckie007
09-19-2014, 03:21 PM
altavista.com

Habspatrol
09-19-2014, 03:23 PM
www.fukuawl.com

leafman101
09-20-2014, 11:05 AM
@mirtle: Leafs sign prospect mirtle: Leafs sign prospect Cody Donaghey to a three-year entry level deal. Like a free draft pick.al. Like a free draft pick.


Like it. Had him ranked as a 2nd rounder so thought he might impress enough for a contract. Had a solid 40 point year last season and exploded in the playoffs with 8 points in 5 games.

leafman101
09-20-2014, 04:11 PM
Mark Masters ‏
Lupul on D system: "Maybe last year was something we’ve never seen before. This is more back to kind of how you grew up playing."

JackBurton
09-20-2014, 04:22 PM
Mark Masters ‏
Lupul on D system: "Maybe last year was something we’ve never seen before. This is more back to kind of how you grew up playing."

Sounds like they had a brilliant plan in place.

Leafin'
09-20-2014, 04:43 PM
These quotes give me a headache. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but f*ck its hard listening to these guys and expecting a good year.

Hoss
09-20-2014, 06:09 PM
Twitter was stating that Kadri was playing on a line with JVR and Frattin as we mentioned. It's only day one, but still.

PKForce81
09-20-2014, 07:10 PM
Anyone else impressed by Kozun in that blue vs white scrimmage? Skates well, some nice moves and looks like he can protect the puck too. Too bad we have quite a few of those types..In terms of small, fast forwards.

LeafGm
09-20-2014, 09:49 PM
These quotes give me a headache. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but f*ck its hard listening to these guys and expecting a good year.
Just go into the year with no expectations. That's what I'm doing. After the last few years, I don't care if these ****ers win their first 20 games in a row, I'm not going to get my hopes up and expect them to play in the playoffs until they've mathematically clinched a playoff spot.

number17
09-20-2014, 10:31 PM
Just go into the year with no expectations. That's what I'm doing. After the last few years, I don't care if these ****ers win their first 20 games in a row, I'm not going to get my hopes up and expect them to play in the playoffs until they've mathematically clinched a playoff spot.I pretty much have no expectation neither. They wanna let Carlyle do something he hasn't been able to do over the past 6,7 years of coaching, so be it. Maybe he can re-invent himself, but I sure am not holding my breath for it.

It is interesting all signs point to the fact they're gonna try Frattin on Kadri's line. Now I don't know if this is because Clarkson's injured, or that's what they would try anyways, but if Frattin is on the 2nd line, then Clarkson can only be as high as the 3rd line? And if Clarkson plays on the 3rd line with Booth and Santo, then Komarov plays on the 4th line?

Guess we'll find out.

JackBurton
09-21-2014, 12:44 AM
I've got a big group of 10 going down for the Leafs/Sabres game on the 26th. Anyone else going?

Pronger84
09-21-2014, 02:56 AM
I don't think Carlye changes this system overall, I think he might make some minor tweaks but overall he will likely keep the same strategy this season. The big thing that has changed is he has a lot more forward depth to work with and can role 3 scoring lines out there which should be an improvement given how last year the 3rd line was virtually non existent,

Pronger84
09-21-2014, 02:59 AM
Just go into the year with no expectations. That's what I'm doing. After the last few years, I don't care if these ****ers win their first 20 games in a row, I'm not going to get my hopes up and expect them to play in the playoffs until they've mathematically clinched a playoff spot.

I have expectations but I'm not getting my hopes up very high either, because really we just traded expensive depth players and replaced them with much cheaper ones. I still think we get vastly outplayed most games this season and outshot badly in a lot of them, I do think goaltending will stand on their heads for the 1st half and kessels line will be torrid for the first chunk of th season. I also see this team fading bad down the stretch too when poor play and fatigue catch up with them but I don't fee, the collapse will be as epic as last years or least hope not.


Bottom line I see us barely making the final wildcard spot and getting badly kicked out of the 1st round.

leafman101
09-21-2014, 08:42 AM
We could see a very different Leafs team than in recent memory. I can't ever remember a time where the team put this much focus on playing defense from day one. The wingers aren't going to be collapsing in their own end. Dmen aren't going to be pinching at the blue line. They are being told to not expect a forward to cover for them. They are really stripping it down and playing a more conservative style of hockey. That over aggressive cheating has always killed this team, and led to odd man situations, easy zone enteries, and terrible zone exits. If this team can't play a simple, conservative game that would be pretty pathetic. If they can there is no way they get outshot and out possessed like they have the last couple of years.

Not to mention half of the team is different from last year. Santorelli, Booth, Komarov, Winnik, Kontiola, Frattin, Robidas, Polak. 8 of the 18 regular players are completely different players. Out are Kuleman, Raymond, McClement, Bodie, Orr, McLaren, Gunnar and Ranger, and Bolland who barely played. Other than Kuly and Gunnar all those guys have major flaws in their games. At least half of them aren't even NHLers. They have been replaced by solid hockey players. Some of which, like Santorelli, Winnik, Robidas and potentially Kontiola are actually pretty good players.

Its a positive that they are spreading money out over the 3rd and 4th lines instead of paying big money to a third line. That is the right thing to do, not the wrong thing to do. They'll have 4 lines this year, and the didn't even have 3 for most of last season thanks to injuries. That alone will help prevent the top players from tiring down the stretch. You just don't need to rely on them as much when you have depth. Especially when there are injuries. And even when there are injuries they have young, talented players with top 6/4 upside, on the doorstep waiting, and probably ready, for their chance, such as Leivo, Nylander, Percy, and Granberg.

Lastly, as every year with this team, if some of the young guys, namely JVR, Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly, can take a jump to another level the Leafs are laughing. I think this could be Kadri and Gardiner's years. They are both 24 which is around where a players offensive peak typically begins, and the same age Kessel broke out.

Who knows if the changes will lead to different results. But they should lead to a different team.

Hoss
09-21-2014, 10:04 AM
I don't like to go in with high expectations either, but I really think JVR is going to emerge as a top power forward this year. I also think Gardiner is going to explode with the potential. I do believe in the sophmore slump, but the fact that Gardiner's seemed to have been ended in the last bit of the season, means I think he is going to step alot forward.
I hope the same for Kadri, I just want to see him play stronger on the puck. I also feel with less worrying about zone style defense, guys like Phaneuf can concentrate on their one man, and not think about a whole bunch of other stuff could make Dion alot harder to play against.

I live having a third and fourth line of guys that are hungry, younger and all round solid.

I've got tickets for the home opener against the habs.. When I saw that it was a Wednesday, I almost sold them, but then realized it was the home opener and so I'll be going. Optimistic as hell.

zeke
09-21-2014, 10:37 AM
the idea of not pinching and not having forwards cover the points is retarded.

zeke
09-21-2014, 11:06 AM
and they're not spreading out money to the bottom 6....they've actually reduced it significantly. komarov is the only guy they signed for the bottom six that's getting much over one mil. there's clarkson too of course, but that was never a bottom six signing, that was a mistake. with bolland gone the bottom six is cheaper than it was last year. leafs have done a good job getting solid players on cheap contracts for the bottom six.

out - in

bolland 3.4 ------ komarov 3.0
kulemin 2.8 ------ santorelli 1.5
mcclement 1.5 --- winnik 1.3
Raymond 1.0 ---- booth 1.1
smithson 0.8 ---- kontiola 1.1
d'amigo 0.9-------- frattin 0.8

10.4 (16.2% of cap) ---- 8.8 (12.8%)

Hoss
09-21-2014, 11:52 AM
It seems to be the Chicago method. Everyone has said to build through the draft, build through the draft, yet teams that have bottomed out still don't have that success. Pittsburgh not included because of Sid and the lottery.

But Chicago, Boston, and LA seem to have done it right. Pay your star players the money they deserve. and rotate serviceable third liners in. With the hunger of a pay day, those third liners play better. They get the space because of the efforts against the big money guys... and once they deserve more money.... replace them with another crop of young, inexpensive hungry players. Rinse and repeat.

JackBurton
09-21-2014, 12:09 PM
The Leafs moves with regards to the cap this summer was very good. Look how much Kulemin got in Long Island. We got guys with better stats for 1/3 that amount.

Pronger84
09-21-2014, 03:50 PM
the idea of not pinching and not having forwards cover the points is retarded.

Agreed! The idea of being good defensievely is seperating the opponent from the puck and maintaining it in the other team's end for long stretches of time. The Leafs back off when other teams come at them through the neurtal zone and resort to collapsing back close to the goalie, which exposes tons of shots from the point.... its such a simple concept take away time and space at the points is the way to do it.

number17
09-21-2014, 06:39 PM
I can't ever remember a time where the team put this much focus on playing defense from day one. The wingers aren't going to be collapsing in their own end. Dmen aren't going to be pinching at the blue line. They are being told to not expect a forward to cover for them. They are really stripping it down and playing a more conservative style of hockey. That over aggressive cheating has always killed this team, and led to odd man situations, easy zone enteries, and terrible zone exits. If this team can't play a simple, conservative game that would be pretty pathetic. If they can there is no way they get outshot and out possessed like they have the last couple of years. ...

Who knows if the changes will lead to different results. But they should lead to a different team.Different team is true, but I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble ... those changes to the defensive system sound pretty stupid to me.

Forwards not collapsing in our own zone like they did last year is a welcomed change, but the more important thing is the forwards have to try harder to cover the points and take away the point shots. They also have to compete much harder at the points to make sure after our dmen wins the puck battle, we can indeed get the puck out instead of allowing our opponents to regain the puck at the point. Last year it wasn't so much the forwards collapsing (though that did happen and was a problem too) but it was the forwards's inability / reluctance to cover the points and take away the point shots. It was a combination of playing too deep (collapsing) AND low compete level.

Asking defenseman to NOT to pinch and not expecting the F's to cover the points, OTOH, is stupid - especially when you have guys like Rielly, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson and Robidas on your blueline. 5 of you 6 dmen are basically offensive defenseman. Many successful NHL teams rely on their Dmen pinching in creating an odd-man situation, and Toronto (ESPECIALLY Toronto, in fact) should play that style.

The problem with our defense last year was NOT our dmen pinching and giving up oddman rush. We generated more offense than the defence we gave up by pinching. The problem with our defense was we freely and willingly conceded the neutral zone (never tried to slow down or turnover the puck in neutral zone) allowing easy entrance into our d-zone. And in our d-zone, we again willingly conceded the perimeter ... our opponents can cycle and pass around the puck around the perimeter all period long, without our D or F trying to stop either the man or the puck at the perimeter. That was the biggest problem. Every defensive transition was like a PK where we allowed easy passing around the outside, until they can find a seam and shoot / pass to the man in front. That is really the biggest culprit to our ridiculous SA.

The first thing we gotta change is how we play in the neutral zone. Instead of asking our dmen not to join the rush, they should be asked, together with the F's, that as a 5 man unit they should engage in slowing down and trying to break up opponent's entrance through the neutral zone.

Once in our zone, our dmen gotta compete harder in the corners and along the board, our F's gotta apply more pressure at the corners, the wingers gotta compete harder at the point to gain puck possession, the C gotta pressure and breakup the pass up the middle.

If Carlyle is trying to tighten up defense by limiting our offensive chances that we take, then he's got it completely wrong (which, wouldn't be a surprise to me ... if he can fix it, he would have fixed it at some point during last season). The Leafs are a great offensive team, and we're a strong counter-attack team. Trying to limit our dmen pinching will hold back our biggest strength, and it won't fix our defensive weakness.

Leafin'
09-21-2014, 07:01 PM
and they're not spreading out money to the bottom 6....they've actually reduced it significantly. komarov is the only guy they signed for the bottom six that's getting much over one mil. there's clarkson too of course, but that was never a bottom six signing, that was a mistake. with bolland gone the bottom six is cheaper than it was last year. leafs have done a good job getting solid players on cheap contracts for the bottom six.

out - in

bolland 3.4 ------ komarov 3.0
kulemin 2.8 ------ santorelli 1.5
mcclement 1.5 --- winnik 1.3
Raymond 1.0 ---- booth 1.1
smithson 0.8 ---- kontiola 1.1
d'amigo 0.9-------- frattin 0.8

10.4 (16.2% of cap) ---- 8.8 (12.8%)

That Komarov contract kills me. This guy will get 10 point this season.

MindzEye
09-21-2014, 07:06 PM
That Komarov contract kills me. This guy will get 10 point this season.

I'll take that bet...over under on 15 points?

Volcanologist
09-21-2014, 07:29 PM
For 3 million he better get at least 30 points and be so annoying he requires an armed escort into and out of opposing arenas.

Leafin'
09-21-2014, 07:43 PM
For 3 million he better get at least 30 points and be so annoying he requires an armed escort into and out of opposing arenas.

Yea, that right there. This guy was an absolute blackhole last time he was here.

Mindz= Internet Thug.

No bet. I will love to be wrong. But him scoring 15-20 points still isn't worth that contract. I see a couple of guy potentially outproducing him in Holland, Santorelli, Booth, Winnik. I like Komarov, not his contract.

MindzEye
09-21-2014, 07:45 PM
Internet thug for offering a bet?

Somebody is a touch sensitive today.

Pronger84
09-21-2014, 08:28 PM
Different team is true, but I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble ... those changes to the defensive system sound pretty stupid to me.

Forwards not collapsing in our own zone like they did last year is a welcomed change, but the more important thing is the forwards have to try harder to cover the points and take away the point shots. They also have to compete much harder at the points to make sure after our dmen wins the puck battle, we can indeed get the puck out instead of allowing our opponents to regain the puck at the point. Last year it wasn't so much the forwards collapsing (though that did happen and was a problem too) but it was the forwards's inability / reluctance to cover the points and take away the point shots. It was a combination of playing too deep (collapsing) AND low compete level.

Asking defenseman to NOT to pinch and not expecting the F's to cover the points, OTOH, is stupid - especially when you have guys like Rielly, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson and Robidas on your blueline. 5 of you 6 dmen are basically offensive defenseman. Many successful NHL teams rely on their Dmen pinching in creating an odd-man situation, and Toronto (ESPECIALLY Toronto, in fact) should play that style.

The problem with our defense last year was NOT our dmen pinching and giving up oddman rush. We generated more offense than the defence we gave up by pinching. The problem with our defense was we freely and willingly conceded the neutral zone (never tried to slow down or turnover the puck in neutral zone) allowing easy entrance into our d-zone. And in our d-zone, we again willingly conceded the perimeter ... our opponents can cycle and pass around the puck around the perimeter all period long, without our D or F trying to stop either the man or the puck at the perimeter. That was the biggest problem. Every defensive transition was like a PK where we allowed easy passing around the outside, until they can find a seam and shoot / pass to the man in front. That is really the biggest culprit to our ridiculous SA.

The first thing we gotta change is how we play in the neutral zone. Instead of asking our dmen not to join the rush, they should be asked, together with the F's, that as a 5 man unit they should engage in slowing down and trying to break up opponent's entrance through the neutral zone.

Once in our zone, our dmen gotta compete harder in the corners and along the board, our F's gotta apply more pressure at the corners, the wingers gotta compete harder at the point to gain puck possession, the C gotta pressure and breakup the pass up the middle.

If Carlyle is trying to tighten up defense by limiting our offensive chances that we take, then he's got it completely wrong (which, wouldn't be a surprise to me ... if he can fix it, he would have fixed it at some point during last season). The Leafs are a great offensive team, and we're a strong counter-attack team. Trying to limit our dmen pinching will hold back our biggest strength, and it won't fix our defensive weakness.

Pretty much this! Point shots are where a lot of scoring chances and goals come from due to shots going through, rebounds and deflections in front. I lost count of how many times the players backed off through the NZ and collapsed back in front and allowed an absurd amount of quanity and quality of shots, its such a misconception that you need to be physical to be good defensviely, actually in theory the Leafs SHOULD be a good defensive squad given how fast skating most of the players are, I hope for a change they use their speed to take time and space away from the opponents, espically the pointmen.

One thing I disagree with is that the Leafs are a strong counter attack team, IMO that couldn't be more wrong IMO. Strong counter attack teams DONT spend much time in their own end, they quickly get the puck up ice to the offensive end and go into attack mode, the Leafs on the other hand struggle badly transitioning the puck... sure when they are in the offensive end they have skill and speed but a good transition team? Nope.

Pronger84
09-21-2014, 08:32 PM
That Komarov contract kills me. This guy will get 10 point this season.

You say that like its fact, its just your opinion man. Komorov when he was here in 12/13 had he played a full 82 game season he would have hit 17 points and that was without any powerplay time. Nonis hinted that they might try Komarov out there on one of the powerplay units, if he gets 3rd line e/s minutes coupled with secondary powerplay time I think he could go as high as 30 points, I think a more healthy point range is 15-20 points but again thats just my opinion.

Cojo
09-21-2014, 08:33 PM
It seems to be the Chicago method. Everyone has said to build through the draft, build through the draft, yet teams that have bottomed out still don't have that success. Pittsburgh not included because of Sid and the lottery.

But Chicago, Boston, and LA seem to have done it right. Pay your star players the money they deserve. and rotate serviceable third liners in. With the hunger of a pay day, those third liners play better. They get the space because of the efforts against the big money guys... and once they deserve more money.... replace them with another crop of young, inexpensive hungry players. Rinse and repeat.

The key is finding that core star player group that can have success. Without that, who cares what you do with the 3rd and 4th liners as they aren't winning you a cup.

The top 6, at bare minimum need to prove they are playoff competitors for it to work.

leafman101
09-21-2014, 09:21 PM
Different team is true, but I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble ... those changes to the defensive system sound pretty stupid to me.

Forwards not collapsing in our own zone like they did last year is a welcomed change, but the more important thing is the forwards have to try harder to cover the points and take away the point shots. They also have to compete much harder at the points to make sure after our dmen wins the puck battle, we can indeed get the puck out instead of allowing our opponents to regain the puck at the point. Last year it wasn't so much the forwards collapsing (though that did happen and was a problem too) but it was the forwards's inability / reluctance to cover the points and take away the point shots. It was a combination of playing too deep (collapsing) AND low compete level.

That was all caused by the forwards collapsing. They were trying to outnumber the offense down low. Of course the points aren't being covered in that situation. It wasn't not trying hard enough. They flat out left the points open, to "swarm" down low. Just not doing that solves all of those problems. The points are covered. You have better outlet plays. Its back to the basics.



Asking defenseman to NOT to pinch and not expecting the F's to cover the points, OTOH, is stupid - especially when you have guys like Rielly, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson and Robidas on your blueline. 5 of you 6 dmen are basically offensive defenseman. Many successful NHL teams rely on their Dmen pinching in creating an odd-man situation, and Toronto (ESPECIALLY Toronto, in fact) should play that style.

The problem with our defense last year was NOT our dmen pinching and giving up oddman rush. We generated more offense than the defence we gave up by pinching. The problem with our defense was we freely and willingly conceded the neutral zone (never tried to slow down or turnover the puck in neutral zone) allowing easy entrance into our d-zone. And in our d-zone, we again willingly conceded the perimeter ... our opponents can cycle and pass around the puck around the perimeter all period long, without our D or F trying to stop either the man or the puck at the perimeter. That was the biggest problem. Every defensive transition was like a PK where we allowed easy passing around the outside, until they can find a seam and shoot / pass to the man in front. That is really the biggest culprit to our ridiculous SA.

The first thing we gotta change is how we play in the neutral zone. Instead of asking our dmen not to join the rush, they should be asked, together with the F's, that as a 5 man unit they should engage in slowing down and trying to break up opponent's entrance through the neutral zone.



Its conservative not stupid. That will improve the neutral zone play. That is the whole point. The Leafs dmen making stupid pinches and the forward not covering back caused countless odd man rushes over the last few years. You give up the neutral zone easy, then you give up your zone easy. All of these things are related.

These small adjustments will solve literally all the issues you touch in that post.

And those are just two small tweaks, among others.



If Carlyle is trying to tighten up defense by limiting our offensive chances that we take, then he's got it completely wrong (which, wouldn't be a surprise to me ... if he can fix it, he would have fixed it at some point during last season). The Leafs are a great offensive team, and we're a strong counter-attack team. Trying to limit our dmen pinching will hold back our biggest strength, and it won't fix our defensive weakness.

Everyone says we need to be a better defensive, more puck possession team. But now all of a sudden they should go back to a free wheeling counter punch team? We want this team to be a better defensive team. They'll never have trouble scoring with the amount of talent they have here. They just want to play more responsibly because last year was a shit show.

trujaysfan
09-21-2014, 09:37 PM
Minds has 15 I'll take the over on a 20+ pt bet (assuming 60% of games played)

Wayward DP
09-21-2014, 11:02 PM
Internet thug for offering a bet?

Somebody is a touch sensitive today.

Heh, if only you two had bet about the Raptors...

JackBurton
09-21-2014, 11:52 PM
I hate the Intangibles argument. Most of the time it is pure B.S. But Komorov is a lot more valuable than it shows on the stats sheet

MindzEye
09-21-2014, 11:58 PM
Heh, if only you two had bet about the Raptors...

Yeah, we can only guess about how that would have turned out.

Leafin'
09-22-2014, 12:08 AM
D*cks.

Good. I hope i'm wrong. Same as the Raptors. Though this Leafs team leaves a lot to be desired.

Pronger84
09-22-2014, 01:23 AM
Everyone says we need to be a better defensive, more puck possession team. But now all of a sudden they should go back to a free wheeling counter punch team? We want this team to be a better defensive team. They'll never have trouble scoring with the amount of talent they have here. They just want to play more responsibly because last year was a shit show.[/QUOTE]

The best way to be good defensievely is to spend as little time in your end as possible and as much time as possible carrying the play in the other end, if you watch all the good teams (notice I used to word good) when they are in their own end all 5 guys are back and being aggressive on the puck carrier at the point forcing him to make a mistake and once they gain the puck its quickly up ice into the other teams end.

One of the main reasons we were brutal defensively last season was like you said we backed off too quickly in the neutral zone, another key factor was how the players the majority of the time collapsed back in front of Bernier/Reimer and allowed the other time all day and Sunday to shoot on us and hem us in our own end.

The easiest way to rectify this is to NOT collapse back in front, instead step up in the netural zone to limit time and space and when we're in our end go right at the puck carrier and pointmen to limit shots against. I'd rather teams get some shots from down low then the points but again that's just me.

Under Wilson, while we weren't great defensively we weren't that bad either and we gave up a lot less shots against then under Carlye's regime.... the big downfall with Wilson's team was horrible goaltending for must of his run that's a huge reason why we had so many goals against.

hockeylover
09-22-2014, 08:25 AM
Defence

Phaneuf-Robidas
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Polak

It's better than Phaneuf Polak I suppose but I'd much rather Robidas be with one of the kids and Phaneuf on the right side with the other.

LeafGm
09-22-2014, 09:29 AM
Yeah, I'm actually kind of disappointed by Phaneuf getting shifted back over to the left side. I was hoping one of Rielly or Gardiner would get a shot with him on the first pairing, but instead, one of them is now guaranteed to be on the third pairing.

Metalleaf
09-22-2014, 09:35 AM
That didn't stop Rielly from getting a good amount of ice time last year.

Hoss
09-22-2014, 09:39 AM
I think you gotta go with what the player feels he is best suited in. If Phaneuf feels he can play better defensively on the left then you do that.

Also, if one of your goals is to decrease the minutes of Phaneuf, then you have to feel confident giving away the minutes to the other pairings.... and this is the first time in a while that this group of six are pretty even.

hockeylover
09-22-2014, 10:04 AM
I think you gotta go with what the player feels he is best suited in. If Phaneuf feels he can play better defensively on the left then you do that.

Also, if one of your goals is to decrease the minutes of Phaneuf, then you have to feel confident giving away the minutes to the other pairings.... and this is the first time in a while that this group of six are pretty even.

I thought he was always on the right because he preferred it?

leafman101
09-22-2014, 10:04 AM
Paul Hendrick
Leafs cut10: Stefan Della Rovere.
Spencer Machacek
Ryan Rupert
Patrick Watling
Matt Finn
Francis Wathier
Brett Findlay
All sent to the Marlies.
#TMLtalk

Matt Rupert, Cody Donaghey and Carter Verhaeghe have all been sent back to their junior clubs. #TMLtalk



Surprised Vergaeghe and Finn didn't get in a game. Guess they didn't look too good against the pro competition in practice.

leafman101
09-22-2014, 10:14 AM
With the players they have they should be able to form 3 solid, reliable pairings. All the crap is gone, except Franson, but he is in a contract year so that usually works out well. There are lots of options though. Any combination of Phaneuf/Gardiner/Rielly on the left and Robidas/Polak/Franson on the right should give you 3 pairs that can share the load and take the pressure off of Phaneuf. And then there are even more options when you factor in Granberg and Percy (potentially Tallinder), and moving Phaneuf back to the right side.

Its a much better situation than with Gunnar, Gleason/Liles, Ranger and Fraser last year. All left shooting, mostly non NHLers.

LeafGm
09-22-2014, 10:24 AM
Too bad about Finn. Not shocking though. I didn't watch the prospects tourney, but heard he didn't look to impressive there either, and the Leafs have plenty of other young defensemen and tryouts to find ice-time for during the pre-season.

leafman101
09-22-2014, 10:41 AM
Hope_Smoke
Duthie on TSN Radio "I know the philosophy of Shanahan by removing Carlyle & Nonis' assistants was to make them uncomfortable"

zeke
09-22-2014, 10:41 AM
pretty dissappointing for Finn. he looked in over his head at rookie camp. he's got a lot of work to do. especially with barb.

zeke
09-22-2014, 10:43 AM
I hate the Intangibles argument. Most of the time it is pure B.S. But Komorov is a lot more valuable than it shows on the stats sheet

actually, the things that he's good at - drawing penalties and driving the other team to distraction - should show up on the stats sheet somewhere.

JackBurton
09-22-2014, 10:45 AM
Hope_Smoke
Duthie on TSN Radio "I know the philosophy of Shanahan by removing Carlyle & Nonis' assistants was to make them uncomfortable"

The philosophy of Shanahan is to drive a dump truck of money to Mike Babcock's House and fire Carlyle.

zeke
09-22-2014, 10:48 AM
Yeah, I'm actually kind of disappointed by Phaneuf getting shifted back over to the left side. I was hoping one of Rielly or Gardiner would get a shot with him on the first pairing, but instead, one of them is now guaranteed to be on the third pairing.

for the record, phaneuf seems very happy to be back on the left. (and if memory serves, i believe mkst of his biggest hits have come from that side).


minutes shouldn't be an issue, either:

Phaneuf 18:00es, 3:00pk, 3:00pp, 24:00tot
Robidas 18:00es, 3:00pk, 0:00pp, 21:00tot

Rielly 15:00es, 1:30pk, 3:00pp, 19:30tot
Polak 15:00es, 3:00pk, 0:00pp, 18:00tot

Gardiner 15:00es, 1:30pk, 3:00pp, 19:30tot
Franson 15:00es, 0:00pk, 3:00pp, 18:00tot

give or take a minute or two.


and i'll be very happy if its robidas on the top pair instead of polak. i've always had a mancrush on robidas. very underrated player. polak on the other hand really shouldn't be more than a #4/5 guy.

Volcanologist
09-22-2014, 11:09 AM
So disappointed Franson is still here.

Robidas will definitely be on the top pairing all year provided he can stay healthy. He's near the end but the guy is a beast.

zeke
09-22-2014, 11:32 AM
Nylander - Bozak - Kessel
VanRyk - Kadri - Lupul
Booth - Santorelli - Winnik
Komarov - Holland - Frattin


go with speed.

zeke
09-22-2014, 11:38 AM
Likely lines tonight:


Booth - Kadri - Leivo
Winnik - Holland - Frattin
Ashton - Kontiola - Biggs
McLaren - Carrick - Bodie
McKegg

Rielly - Nilsson
Percy - Granberg
Mikkleson - Holzer
Knodel

Artnes
09-22-2014, 01:06 PM
Who gets the call in goal? Bibeau?

Rumpleforeskin
09-22-2014, 01:08 PM
Cal Heeter, I believe

Hoss
09-22-2014, 03:40 PM
I hope this Bibeau kid grows and pans out. Looks like the draft team seems to have an eye for goalie prospects.

LeafGm
09-22-2014, 04:10 PM
I hope this Bibeau kid grows and pans out. Looks like the draft team seems to have an eye for goalie prospects.
Yeah, and hopefully he doesn't grow up to be a shitbird, like his brother Justin.

Pronger84
09-22-2014, 04:11 PM
So disappointed Franson is still here.

Robidas will definitely be on the top pairing all year provided he can stay healthy. He's near the end but the guy is a beast.

Do you have inside knowledge with the Leafs that the rest of us dont? Otherwise its just you speculating, and doesn't mean Robidas will stick on the top pairing all year long either. Right now, given the other choices he by default is the best option to pair with Dion (which doesn't say much about the rest of the blueliners), that being said its a long season and who knows what could happen and what exhperiments Carlyle will try, the other big issue is can Robidas even stay healthy?

hockeylover
09-22-2014, 04:32 PM
Holy ****.

B-Wheelin
09-22-2014, 05:31 PM
Greetings!
Anybody know if tonights game is being streamed anywhere?

hockeylover
09-22-2014, 05:37 PM
Try this one?

http://firstrowca.eu/watch/284533/1/watch-toronto-maple-leafs-vs-philadelphia-flyers.html

SundinsTooth
09-22-2014, 05:38 PM
Do you have inside knowledge with the Leafs that the rest of us dont? Otherwise its just you speculating, and doesn't mean Robidas will stick on the top pairing all year long either. Right now, given the other choices he by default is the best option to pair with Dion (which doesn't say much about the rest of the blueliners), that being said its a long season and who knows what could happen and what exhperiments Carlyle will try, the other big issue is can Robidas even stay healthy?

Hint - when you are on a forum, just add IMHO to every single thing you read.

worm
09-22-2014, 05:40 PM
Hint - when you are on a forum, just add IMHO to every single thing you read.

http://reactionimage.org/img/gallery/9325080020.jpg

hockeylover
09-22-2014, 05:44 PM
Players you're most interested in having a look at?

I'm looking forward to seeing Percy-Granberg tonight. And I've always had a soft spot for Leivo.

B-Wheelin
09-22-2014, 05:48 PM
Try this one?

http://firstrowca.eu/watch/284533/1/watch-toronto-maple-leafs-vs-philadelphia-flyers.html

Thank you kindly!

leafman101
09-22-2014, 05:56 PM
I want to see how Kontiola plays.

Holland, Leivo, Frattin, Ashton, Stuart and Granberg are young guys battling for 1 or 2 jobs. It would be nice to have good camps out of a couple of those guys.

zeke
09-22-2014, 06:30 PM
holland and kontiola are the ones i'm keeping an eye on. really important preseason for both of them, with significant nhl roles at stake.

frattin to a lesser extent.

love watching leivo, percy, granberg, etc. too but imo they're all starting on the marlies regardless.

Hoss
09-22-2014, 06:56 PM
I am interested in Granberg, Santorelli, and Loov. Something about Loov reminds me of Markov. Would like to see him do well.

Volcanologist
09-22-2014, 07:00 PM
Loov has to make it just because of the name.

CRL
09-22-2014, 07:26 PM
Surprised to see Troy Bodie wearing blue and white

johnunit
09-22-2014, 07:28 PM
any streams?

hockeylover
09-22-2014, 07:32 PM
any streams?

Literally like 5 posts above.

PKForce81
09-22-2014, 07:34 PM
Granberg looks really good guys. We have more chances so far. PP Leafs.

leafman101
09-22-2014, 07:34 PM
Kadri and Rielly are the best players on the ice.

Holland, holzer, granberg, Percy, carrack and Winnik also standing out.

Edit: Frattin too.

Volcanologist
09-22-2014, 07:43 PM
Bob McGill's inability to say Stolarz is amusing.

zeke
09-22-2014, 07:46 PM
man leafs look fast. so nice to have hockey back.

holland and frattin are just flying out there.

surprisingly so is holzer (still my favorite to be our #7).

kadri and rielly are obviously awesome.

leivo and granberg are good as we know. percy and nilsson struggled a bit.

winnik wad good, booth was just ok.

the kontiola line looked pretty poor. ashton the only one doing anything.

and you gotta love carrick. this guy will make the nhl eventually.

TimHorton
09-22-2014, 07:54 PM
Holzer has been the dominant player so far. But Carrick is the guy that I'm most surprised by, he's looked really, really good.

Volcanologist
09-22-2014, 08:03 PM
Biggs is pathetic.

CRL
09-22-2014, 08:04 PM
Same old, cant score on PP and cant defend on PK

TimHorton
09-22-2014, 08:07 PM
These two announcers are worse than Ebola, where the hell is Bowen?

Metalleaf
09-22-2014, 08:12 PM
Radio

Pronger84
09-22-2014, 08:14 PM
These two announcers are worse than Ebola, where the hell is Bowen?

Bowen is strictly doing radio broadcasts for sportsnet

CRL
09-22-2014, 08:14 PM
These two announcers are worse than Ebola, where the hell is Bowen?

we are lucky Millen is not sharing his thoughts with us all the time, every time I hear that guy I want to give up on leafs

TimHorton
09-22-2014, 08:15 PM
That was an ugly line change, and terrible positioning by Bodie

CRL
09-22-2014, 08:16 PM
Randy loves his goons

LeafGm
09-22-2014, 08:30 PM
A few random thoughts:


Kadri and Holland's lines look head and shoulders above the other two.
Petri Kontiola looks sorta RickardWallinesque thus far.
I had a brief moment of panic when I saw a big Leaf defenseman wearing #8, until I realized it was Granberg.
Granberg looks good. He'll eventually be a Leaf, though I don't know if his turn to graduate will come up this year.
Tyler Biggs, lol.
Rielly doesn't look like he has any off-season rust.

Pronger84
09-22-2014, 08:45 PM
Personally I never understood why the leafs let mccleement walk in favour of kantiola. Mccleement was a solid 4th line centre who excelled on winning faceoffs and the penalty kill not to mention has a lot of experience but nope we let him go to bring in someone who hasn't played in the nhl in over 5 years.... It boggles my mind.

zeke
09-22-2014, 08:48 PM
biggs is so bad.

how funny is it that we're forced to watch two lines of goons even in the preseason?

kontiola better pick it up or he won't be making this team. holland looks really fast and really confident.

and our PK needs work.

zeke
09-22-2014, 08:58 PM
holzer looks fricken great tonight.

still think randy was an idiot for sticking him straight on the top pairing two yrs back. holzer could still turn into an excellent bottom pair guy. his combo of size and skating is excellent.

Volcanologist
09-22-2014, 08:58 PM
Holzer embarasses all of Germany with his performance in that fight.

zeke
09-22-2014, 09:17 PM
Holzer and Granberg are putting Franson's job in serious jeopardy.

Volcanologist
09-22-2014, 09:21 PM
Holzer seems to be skating a lot better than last time.

zeke
09-22-2014, 09:45 PM
nice. we win!

5 Goats:

5. Rielly
4. Percy
3. Kontiola
2. McLaren
1. Biggs


5 Stars:

5. Holland
4. Granberg
3. Carrick
2. Holzer
1. Kadri

Cojo
09-23-2014, 07:18 AM
Rielly was a goat?

Didn't get to watch the game, I take it he didn't play that good?

leafman101
09-23-2014, 07:49 AM
Mark Masters
Kadri's focus right now is on "becoming the whole package"; was happy with his face-offs tonight, back-checking & getting PK time

Nazem Kadri: "It's just about time for me to develop myself & turn myself into the whole package"

MindzEye
09-23-2014, 08:03 AM
Everything else can be learned other than talent.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 08:50 AM
Rielly was a goat?

Didn't get to watch the game, I take it he didn't play that good?

I didn't watch the game either but I've read a lot of posts about him last night, mixed reviews depending on who u ask. Some said he played solid, making lots of accurate passes and skating like the wind out there but others said he got beat a lot one on one and also made a lot of brain farts in his own end....

leafman101
09-23-2014, 08:51 AM
Everything else can be learned other than talent.

Yep, especially when you have the talent. Its all about the desire. Music to my ears from Kadri. He has the skill set, work ethic and physicality to be a top two way center. Just has to put in the work.

number17
09-23-2014, 08:57 AM
I didn't watch the whole game (played last night, got home and started watching PVR and kept falling asleep during the game ... having 2 lines of goons sure didn't help) ... but what I watched, Granberg didn't have a great game. He made a bad pinch, then lost his position and couldn't catch up in OT, which resulted in a 4 on 3 penalty. And he didn't really have to take that penalty either cause Leivo was already back and we had a 2 on 2.

Maybe he was great in the rest of the game, I didn't catch it.

Some random points

- Kadri and Holland were great, really stood out from the rest of the team
- If our 'new defensive system' was in place, I didn't really notice it ... guess it takes a while to sink in? Cause it looked EXACTLY like how we played D last year
- Both goalies (Gibson and Hett) looked pretty good ... of the 2, Hett looked better
- Yep, Kontiola looked very Wallin-ish
- Biggs is a bust officially
- Nilsson continues to look good
- Our PK despite the new assistant, again, looks exactly the same as last year! The PK Forward played too deep and could not cover / pressure the point

leafman101
09-23-2014, 09:21 AM
Well they outshot the Flyers 31 to 24 so that was different.

Preston_Mizzi
09-23-2014, 10:10 AM
Who the **** is Hett?

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 10:12 AM
He means Cal Heeter.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 10:13 AM
And Heeter isn't even a Leafs prospect.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 10:36 AM
Well they outshot the Flyers 31 to 24 so that was different.

While its good they weren't outshot, I wouldn't put much stock in it either given that its the preseason and neither team was icing their actual roster.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 10:37 AM
I didn't watch the whole game (played last night, got home and started watching PVR and kept falling asleep during the game ... having 2 lines of goons sure didn't help) ... but what I watched, Granberg didn't have a great game. He made a bad pinch, then lost his position and couldn't catch up in OT, which resulted in a 4 on 3 penalty. And he didn't really have to take that penalty either cause Leivo was already back and we had a 2 on 2.

Maybe he was great in the rest of the game, I didn't catch it.

Some random points

- Kadri and Holland were great, really stood out from the rest of the team
- If our 'new defensive system' was in place, I didn't really notice it ... guess it takes a while to sink in? Cause it looked EXACTLY like how we played D last year
- Both goalies (Gibson and Hett) looked pretty good ... of the 2, Hett looked better
- Yep, Kontiola looked very Wallin-ish
- Biggs is a bust officially
- Nilsson continues to look good
- Our PK despite the new assistant, again, looks exactly the same as last year! The PK Forward played too deep and could not cover / pressure the point

Carlyle said that there will be some adjustments to the defensive system but it will be very similar to last season.

leafman101
09-23-2014, 10:54 AM
Jonas Siegel ‏
William Nylander will play with Kessel and Santorelli tonight.

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 10:57 AM
Well that'll be fun to watch.

leafman101
09-23-2014, 11:14 AM
Projected lines from Mark Masters and Jonas Siegel:

Nylander-Santorelli-Kessel
JVR-Smith-Lupul
Komarov-McKegg-Kozun
Broll-McMillan-Orr

Phaneuf-Franson
Gardiner-Polak
Loov-Tallinder

Bernier
Bibeau



Hate seeing that Phaneuf-Franson pair. Looks like the thinking to start is:

Phaneuf-Franson
Rielly-Robidas
Gardiner-Polak

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 11:16 AM
I feel like Phaneuf Franson will be a disaster.

runninglow
09-23-2014, 11:22 AM
Just a placeholder until Robidas is healthy. Nothing to see here.

leafman101
09-23-2014, 11:25 AM
Well technically Rielly got the placeholder.

CRL
09-23-2014, 11:27 AM
Projected lines from Mark Masters and Jonas Siegel:

Nylander-Santorelli-Kessel
JVR-Smith-Lupul
Komarov-McKegg-Kozun
Broll-McMillan-Orr

Phaneuf-Franson
Gardiner-Polak
Loov-Tallinder

Bernier
Bibeau



Hate seeing that Phaneuf-Franson pair. Looks like the thinking to start is:

Phaneuf-Franson
Rielly-Robidas
Gardiner-Polak

Gotta hate our bottom six

MindzEye
09-23-2014, 11:27 AM
Carlyle said that there will be some adjustments to the defensive system but it will be very similar to last season.

Babcock had better be in the ****ing bag....if not, I just don't see the argument for keeping Randy.

MindzEye
09-23-2014, 11:31 AM
Gotta hate our bottom six

It's a pre season game, I wouldn't care much if 6 of you guys were dressing.

LeafGm
09-23-2014, 11:37 AM
I feel like Phaneuf Franson will be a disaster.
After last season, I feel that any pairing that includes Franson will be a disaster.

I just hope that, if he is a disaster again, 6 other Leaf defensemen play well enough in camp to push him out of the lineup.

TimHorton
09-23-2014, 11:43 AM
Gotta hate our bottom six

Uncle Leo-McKegg-Kozun is hardly a goon line. They can at least resemble hockey players.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 11:46 AM
After last season, I feel that any pairing that includes Franson will be a disaster.

I just hope that, if he is a disaster again, 6 other Leaf defensemen play well enough in camp to push him out of the lineup.

And this is why it was a colossal judgement call by Nonis to get rid of Gunnarsson, it screws up our entire back end. IMO currently NONE of the blueliners are the right match for Dion, and god help us all if Franson is the chosen one for the top pairing....

LeafOfFaith
09-23-2014, 11:50 AM
After last season, I feel that any pairing that includes Franson will be a disaster.

I just hope that, if he is a disaster again, 6 other Leaf defensemen play well enough in camp to push him out of the lineup.

He's not long for this team no matter what he does, so I hope he does well so that we can maybe trade him for something unexpectedly good soon.

LeafGm
09-23-2014, 11:58 AM
He's not long for this team no matter what he does, so I hope he does well so that we can maybe trade him for something unexpectedly good soon.
Yeah, Franson doing well is obviously the best case scenario. And the guy does have a lot of positive attributes. He has excellent size, which he seems more and more willing to throw around. He has a fantastic, quick and accurate point shot. He's fairly mobile, and can move the puck. If he could put it all together, he could be a very valuable piece.

It's just a shame that, like many other players before him, he's got the skill and the physical attributes, but he's got shit for hockey IQ.

Volcanologist
09-23-2014, 11:58 AM
**** you, Josh Gorges.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 12:06 PM
Yeah, Franson doing well is obviously the best case scenario. And the guy does have a lot of positive attributes. He has excellent size, which he seems more and more willing to throw around. He has a fantastic, quick and accurate point shot. He's fairly mobile, and can move the puck. If he could put it all together, he could be a very valuable piece.

It's just a shame that, like many other players before him, he's got the skill and the physical attributes, but he's got shit for hockey IQ.

Being physical IMO is over-rated when it comes to defending its a good tool to have but shouldn't be your first option either. Franson mobile since when? The guy has always struggled skating wise espically laterally and backwards which is one of the big reasons he got burned a lot last season. Sure he has a good shot but again as a defender your job isn't to score goals it's to help transition the attack, he can have the greatest shot in the world but it means nothing when he can't actually do his job out there which is to defend. He does have a good first pass but he needs time and space to launch it, when he's pressured he is prone to turning it over rather easily.

MindzEye
09-23-2014, 12:36 PM
And this is why it was a colossal judgement call by Nonis to get rid of Gunnarsson, it screws up our entire back end. IMO currently NONE of the blueliners are the right match for Dion, and god help us all if Franson is the chosen one for the top pairing....

I was vocal about the Gunner trade, but I don't think him being a fit with Dion is the reason why. With Dion's defensive game being well above average, I think he could make an extremely interesting pairing with Rielly or Gardiner...whichever of the two is ready to take the step forward. Phaneuf would be an excellent safety valve for their defensive zone play, and both are outstanding at moving the puck out of danger once they've gotten possession, which would help Dion by him not being forced to spend so much time in zone, and not having to carry the burden of pushing the puck in transition as much.

number17
09-23-2014, 12:37 PM
After last season, I feel that any pairing that includes Franson will be a disaster.

I just hope that, if he is a disaster again, 6 other Leaf defensemen play well enough in camp to push him out of the lineup.And I was reading an article on Sportsnet on how he takes pride in leading NHL dmen in hits last season, it was a good season for him, and at times he felt awkward playing the Left side last season ...

I was like 12/13 was a GOOD season for yuo Cody? Really? Can you be more delusional?! You were the worst defenseman defensively on the team despite facing pretty easy opponents. Now we have an advanced stats guy in the organization that much would be very obvious.

And being willing to hit is good, but hitting alone doesn't make you a good defensman, especially when your hits aren't exactly bone shattering most of the times.

Offensively you took a step back as well. It was just a bad season for Franson ... and oh, when did you play on the L side??! For first half of the season you were paired with Gardiner a lot, so you played on the R side. Later in the season you played with Gleason, another leftie, so you also played on the R side. Only on very rare occassion you played on the L side, hardly an excuse for the poor season you had.

LeafGm
09-23-2014, 12:37 PM
Being physical IMO is over-rated when it comes to defending its a good tool to have but shouldn't be your first option either. Franson mobile since when? The guy has always struggled skating wise espically laterally and backwards which is one of the big reasons he got burned a lot last season. Sure he has a good shot but again as a defender your job isn't to score goals it's to help transition the attack, he can have the greatest shot in the world but it means nothing when he can't actually do his job out there which is to defend. He does have a good first pass but he needs time and space to launch it, when he's pressured he is prone to turning it over rather easily.
The post you're responding to:


He's fairly mobile

fair·ly adverb \ˈfer-lē\
Definition: to some degree or extent but not very or extremely : to a reasonable or moderate extent

So, what I said = He's mobile to some extent, but not extremely mobile. In other words, he's no Jake Gardiner or Morgan Rielly out there, mobility-wise, but he's no Mike Komisarek either.

English, mother****er. Learn it.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 12:43 PM
The post you're responding to:



fair·ly adverb \ˈfer-lē\
Definition: to some degree or extent but not very or extremely : to a reasonable or moderate extent

So, what I said = He's mobile to some extent, but not extremely mobile. In other words, he's no Jake Gardiner or Morgan Rielly out there, mobility-wise, but he's no Mike Komisarek either.

English, mother****er. Learn it.

Well aware of what "fairly" means no need for the condescending tone son. When I said I felt Franson wasn't overly mobile by that I mean he is painfully sluggish out there and I'd even argue he's close to Komiserak level bad out there, again that's just how I view him, to me he's a bottom pairing guy on e/s and who can play on the top powerplay unit due to his booming shot.

Bleedsblue&white
09-23-2014, 12:46 PM
I'm giving Franson the same mulligan everybody else on D gets last season; We couldn't figure out that shitshow, can't imagine it was fun playing in it.
If they truly rejig the Leafs system to something closer to the rest of the league we'll get a better handle on what we have...IMO last season' system made everybody look bad.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 12:47 PM
I was vocal about the Gunner trade, but I don't think him being a fit with Dion is the reason why. With Dion's defensive game being well above average, I think he could make an extremely interesting pairing with Rielly or Gardiner...whichever of the two is ready to take the step forward. Phaneuf would be an excellent safety valve for their defensive zone play, and both are outstanding at moving the puck out of danger once they've gotten possession, which would help Dion by him not being forced to spend so much time in zone, and not having to carry the burden of pushing the puck in transition as much.

I get what your saying and I do agree out of all our blueliners Dion is the most "well rounded" of them all but hhI was vocal about the Gunner trade, but I don't think him being a fit with Dion is the reason why. With Dion's defensive game being well above average, I think he could make an extremely interesting pairing with Rielly or Gardiner...whichever of the two is ready to take the step forward. Phaneuf would be an excellent safety valve for their defensive zone play, and both are outstanding at moving the puck out of danger once they've gotten possession, which would help Dion by him not being forced to spend so much time in zone, and not having to carry the burden of pushing the puck in transition as much.

I get what you are saying, Dion is the most well rounded of the blueliners and is good at transitioning the puck up ice, however history has shown Dion excels when playing with a veteran stay at home guy (Hamrlik in Calgary, Gunnarsson in Toronto). I do think that eventually Rielly will make an above average top pairing guy but he's also only in his 2nd season and I'm not sure its the best option to be handing him the keys to the kingdom just yet.

leafman101
09-23-2014, 01:01 PM
Gunnar was a very good player before the hip stuff. The last couple years he hasn't been the same. Statistically or otherwise. He went from about an even Rel Corsi player with a low, unlucky PDO, to a -10 Rel corsi player with a 1046 PDO thanks to the goaltending. Part of that is the usage, but the hip limited him. Those injuries are tough for hockey players. The bum hip and him being one of 4-5 (Phaneuf, Rielly, Gardiner, Percy) guys that play the left side rendered him expendable.

Robidas is an upgrade. So are Rielly and Gardiner. At the end of the day those will likely be our top 4 dmen based on ice time, barring some inane idea to use Franson has a top pairing dman.

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 01:02 PM
no need for the condescending tone son.

Seriously?

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 01:04 PM
I really expected Robidas to be playing with one of Gardiner or Rielly. It sounded like that's what they told him when they signed him too.

leafman101
09-23-2014, 01:11 PM
It sounds like it with all the talk of him taking pressure off of Phaneuf. Playing them together doesn't do that.

PKForce81
09-23-2014, 01:40 PM
Carlyle said that there will be some adjustments to the defensive system but it will be very similar to last season.

They did well defensively last night imo. Didn't see forwards collapse(in fact they were rushing to take the point)...Compete level was great too. Most of the goals against happened due to bad line change and another where a player was sent on a partial break. I will be very happy if they keep playing like they did last night.

worm
09-23-2014, 03:16 PM
Seriously?

I laughed.

Deckie007
09-23-2014, 03:19 PM
I'm giving Franson the same mulligan everybody else on D gets last season; We couldn't figure out that shitshow, can't imagine it was fun playing in it.
If they truly rejig the Leafs system to something closer to the rest of the league we'll get a better handle on what we have...IMO last season' system made everybody look bad.

I feel the same way. Unfair to pin the shitshow last year on any one player. More of a system (coach) issue, imo.

zeke
09-23-2014, 03:26 PM
franson with phaneuf actually makes good sense.

phaneuf, robidas, and polak are our three best defensive dmen, so it makes sense to pair franson with the only lefty of the three.

and i'm getting real excited about the chance they're giving nylander with kessel, and the jvr-lupul pairing. there's starting to be a decent chance of this top six:

Nylander - Bozak - Kessel
Vanryk - Kadri - Lupul

which would be awesome, with bozak being the only one without legit top line talent. (and imagine replacing bozak with, say, thornton).

and would leave plenty of talent to make a quality third line.


come on nylander, take advantage.

Leafin'
09-23-2014, 05:10 PM
I would be so happy is Nylander makes the team, nevermind making the 1st line.

Thornton would be a sweet add to the team. He would be pretty costly.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 05:10 PM
franson with phaneuf actually makes good sense.

phaneuf, robidas, and polak are our three best defensive dmen, so it makes sense to pair franson with the only lefty of the three.

and i'm getting real excited about the chance they're giving nylander with kessel, and the jvr-lupul pairing. there's starting to be a decent chance of this top six:

Nylander - Bozak - Kessel
Vanryk - Kadri - Lupul

which would be awesome, with bozak being the only one without legit top line talent. (and imagine replacing bozak with, say, thornton).

and would leave plenty of talent to make a quality third line.


come on nylander, take advantage.

I'm sorry but on what planet does Phaneuf and Franson make any lick of sense? Franson and Phaneuf are sluggish, not to mention Franson has horrible hockey IQ out there. Phaneuf works best with a defensive anchor beside him, who can cover him when he pinches and/or is out of positon espically when he gets burned laterally in his own end.

Leafin'
09-23-2014, 05:15 PM
I'm sorry but on what planet does Phaneuf and Franson make any lick of sense? Franson and Phaneuf are sluggish, not to mention Franson has horrible hockey IQ out there. Phaneuf works best with a defensive anchor beside him, who can cover him when he pinches and/or is out of positon espically when he gets burned laterally in his own end.

Phaneuf is a defensive anchor. Playing him with Franson is probably an ideal scenario in raising his value. Franson on a contract year should be playing his heart out. If Franson can finally put it together we know he can be a good player. THis is a guy that'd consistently played with poor partners(Fraser, young Gardiner, Liles).

With good minutes, i see him putting up 45+ points this season.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 05:23 PM
Its preseason...the first 4 games are all about experimentation.

zeke
09-23-2014, 05:27 PM
I'm sorry but on what planet does Phaneuf and Franson make any lick of sense? Franson and Phaneuf are sluggish, not to mention Franson has horrible hockey IQ out there. Phaneuf works best with a defensive anchor beside him, who can cover him when he pinches and/or is out of positon espically when he gets burned laterally in his own end.

who says phaneuf works best with a defensive dman?

worm
09-23-2014, 05:29 PM
I'm sorry but on what planet does Phaneuf and Franson make any lick of sense? Franson and Phaneuf are sluggish, not to mention Franson has horrible hockey IQ out there. Phaneuf works best with a defensive anchor beside him, who can cover him when he pinches and/or is out of positon espically when he gets burned laterally in his own end.

In a word....Earth.

zeke
09-23-2014, 05:31 PM
I would be so happy is Nylander makes the team, nevermind making the 1st line.

Thornton would be a sweet add to the team. He would be pretty costly.

how much did spezza cost?

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 05:34 PM
who says phaneuf works best with a defensive dman?

Simple take a look back- He had some of his best years in Calgary when paired with Hamrlik, and even more well rounded seasons with Toronto when paired with Gunnarsson... both guys defensive defencmen.

zeke
09-23-2014, 05:38 PM
its interesting that as far as i'm aware of, there's not a stat in existence which doesn't say that franson is a pretty good dman.

and hell, this is a guy that made mark frasor look like an nhl defenseman for a good number of games.

zeke
09-23-2014, 05:40 PM
Simple take a look back- He had some of his best years in Calgary when paired with Hamrlik, and even more well rounded seasons with Toronto when paired with Gunnarsson... both guys defensive defencmen.

describing hamrlik at that time as a defensive dman is probably wrong.

andnhas dion ever been paired with a pure offensive dman to compare with?

leafman101
09-23-2014, 05:40 PM
Phaneuf can do everything so he can play with anyone. He has the size, he can move the puck with his hands and his feet, he can jump into the play, he can play defense, he can be physical. He doesn't need anything in particular to suit his game because he does it all.

That said he has had a pretty bad group of pair mates in his career. Never really played with anything better than a solid 2nd pair guy.

I would be shocked if he isn't moved back to the right side and played with Gardiner or Rielly for most of his contract.

Pronger84
09-23-2014, 05:44 PM
its interesting that as far as i'm aware of, there's not a stat in existence which doesn't say that franson is a pretty good dman.

and hell, this is a guy that made mark frasor look like an nhl defenseman for a good number of games.

Franson's an above average offensive blueliner, but thats mainly because of his shot which generates a lot of assists due to rebounds and tip ins. On the flip side, he was a bottom pairing player in Nashville and mosly here in Toronto (outside of the occasinonal stint in the top pairing) which should tell you that 3 different coaches have come up with the same conclusion which is giving him limited ice time due to not being reliable enough to defensively to warrant significant ice time against solid competition.

LeafOfFaith
09-23-2014, 06:01 PM
its interesting that as far as i'm aware of, there's not a stat in existence which doesn't say that franson is a pretty good dman.

and hell, this is a guy that made mark frasor look like an nhl defenseman for a good number of games.

Franson is one of the most inconsistent Leafs ever. Wildly so. He goes from being incredible (playoffs) to being almost unplayable at times.

He actually reminds me of me at street hockey. But nobody is paying me millions to play and I'm not blocking any deserving kid.

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 06:16 PM
I'm stuck at work, if there's anyone watching that feels like posting updates/thoughts during the game, that would be amazing.

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 06:30 PM
Just saw on Twitter somewhere that Kessel was top 3 in fitness testing this year for the Leafs?

Perhaps that'll shut people up about him being a fatty.

Leafin'
09-23-2014, 06:47 PM
I believe you, but show me a legit link...

Just so i can send it to a bunch of pieces of sh*t i know.

Volcanologist
09-23-2014, 06:50 PM
Just saw on Twitter somewhere that Kessel was top 3 in fitness testing this year for the Leafs?

Perhaps that'll shut people up about him being a fatty.

Nope...

Rumpleforeskin
09-23-2014, 06:53 PM
Just saw on Twitter somewhere that Kessel was top 3 in fitness testing this year for the Leafs?

Perhaps that'll shut people up about him being a fatty.

we all know results and facts don't really matter

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 07:01 PM
I believe you, but show me a legit link...

Just so i can send it to a bunch of pieces of sh*t i know.

Nevermind it says "three of the top".

Damien Cox @DamoSpin · 1h
Word is three of the fittest Leafs during pre-camp testing were Cody Donaghy, Connor Brown and Phil Kessel.

CTheBigPicture
09-23-2014, 07:03 PM
I believe you, but show me a legit link...

Just so i can send it to a bunch of pieces of sh*t i know.

Show them the statsheet. That's all that matters. This is not Mr. Universe competition.

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 07:47 PM
Anyone watching? Thoughts?

PKForce81
09-23-2014, 07:48 PM
Man i'm loving the way Komarov plays. He dumps the puck, goes after it and always gets there first and makes a play for a good chance.

PKForce81
09-23-2014, 07:49 PM
Anyone watching? Thoughts?

Komarov is a beast.

PKForce81
09-23-2014, 07:52 PM
JVR with a nice goal. Shot it from in close.

CTheBigPicture
09-23-2014, 07:52 PM
JVR with a beauty.

Bleedsblue&white
09-23-2014, 07:53 PM
That was a mid-season shot.

zeke
09-23-2014, 07:53 PM
sweet roofjob by jvr after loops caused a coupla turnovers and dangled all over the ozone.

those looked like loops' 12-13 mitts out there.

PKForce81
09-23-2014, 07:55 PM
They're definitely covering the points much better.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 07:55 PM
Loov Komarov

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 07:56 PM
I like Santos hustle, but he, Kessel, and Nylander haven't done too much yet.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
09-23-2014, 07:57 PM
The Leafs look really good thus far.

zeke
09-23-2014, 07:57 PM
Anyone watching? Thoughts?

both teams having trouble connecting on passing.

but all the dmen are looking good, so that might be why.

loov and mckegg making good impressions so far. komarov is everywhere.

not enough icetime for the top two lines so far, but both have made some nice plays.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 07:58 PM
JVR/Lupul combo has been good though.

hockeylover
09-23-2014, 07:59 PM
Getting Lupul going (and staying healthy, hopefully) would be massive for this team.

CTheBigPicture
09-23-2014, 07:59 PM
I like Santos hustle, but he, Kessel, and Nylander haven't done too much yet.

they are entering the zone well but the drop passes are not connecting. They just not in sync yet. Should get better as the game goes along.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 08:01 PM
Tomorrow's split squad games will be interesting.

Artnes
09-23-2014, 08:12 PM
If Komarov continues this all season people will quickly forget about the cap hit.

He is turning into a special kind of pest

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 08:12 PM
@jonasTSN1050: Henrik Tallinder says William Nylander was nervous before the game. "He said before the period 'what have I gotten myself into?'"

Artnes
09-23-2014, 08:14 PM
You can only imagine how overwhelming the experience must be.

You're a deer in headlights for the first 5 mins taking it all in

Leafin'
09-23-2014, 08:16 PM
He's a cocky lil shit, he'll be fine.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 08:18 PM
@dalter: That new #Leafs goal song is 'Howl' by The Gaslight Anthem.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 08:33 PM
Tallinder crashes into Bernier and somehow Bernier makes the save.

CTheBigPicture
09-23-2014, 08:36 PM
Bernier is very calm in the net. This is a big year for him.

Hoss
09-23-2014, 08:45 PM
Man Franson looks super effing slow when he is plodding to get back. first he couldn't get an icing call off a dump, and then can't catch his man so tells his partner to pick him up.

BeLeafer
09-23-2014, 08:47 PM
So happy Leo is back ... guy is pure entertainment value.

CTheBigPicture
09-23-2014, 08:47 PM
Flyers already hate Uncle Leo. Love it

Volcanologist
09-23-2014, 08:51 PM
Nylander shows some sweet passing.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
09-23-2014, 08:52 PM
Flyers already hate Uncle Leo. Love it

Guy is a gem, so happy he is back.

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 08:52 PM
That last PP was a Nylander show.

BeLeafer
09-23-2014, 08:56 PM
Haven't been watching long but the Leafs look more well organized than much of last season, despite being in a preseason game (albeit the Flyers look like utter shit).

Metalleaf
09-23-2014, 08:59 PM
Only allowed 14 shots so far.

Bleedsblue&white
09-23-2014, 09:01 PM
There's been some nice moments. Bernier looked good, some flash on the pp, nylander almost scored...and Komarov.
How could anybody who watched him last go round be surprised?