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View Full Version : GDT #2| CBC Hockey Night in Canada|Penguins @. Leafs|7 ET



da_next_kid
10-11-2014, 04:54 PM
JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Kozun
Winnik-Holland-Panik
Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson

Phaneuf-Robidas
Gardiner-Rielly
Franson-Polak

Bernier

vs


Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Dupuis-Sutter-Malkin
Downie-Goc-Comeau
Spaling-Sill-Adams

Ehrhoff-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Scuderi-Despres


4-2 good guys.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 04:54 PM
All business tonight peeps.

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/22736075/carlton-ford.0_standard_730.0.jpg

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 04:55 PM
You beat me. Can the mods move over my Ford picture?!?! :)

Bleedsblue&white
10-11-2014, 04:57 PM
Not if they're the type of mods we tend to like around here.

da_next_kid
10-11-2014, 04:58 PM
You beat me. Can the mods move over my Ford picture?!?!


Think you posted it first. Mods can you guys please merge the threads?

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 04:59 PM
We always tend to play Pittsburgh well at home and Fleury is an abomination right now. 5-3 for Buds.

Bleedsblue&white
10-11-2014, 05:00 PM
I'm expecting a win tonight, and i'm going to go ahead and name Komarov first star.
Crosby will be crying before the end of the 1st.

Leafin'
10-11-2014, 05:07 PM
Heading to the game tonight with grandpops, hopefully we see a better result than the last game. If not, i'm going to every Leafs game this year so we go 0-82. CONNOR!

number17
10-11-2014, 06:04 PM
I have mixed feeling about the start i want for the Leafs.

On one hand I want the Leafs to do well (daaa.... i'm a fan) ... but OTOH I secretly hope for a 1-9 start so we can get Carlyle fired.

I hate losing to the Pens though, so a win will definitely make me happy tonight.

The Pens started the season with a 6G game in Anaheim and we could very well be their second victim if we don't tighten up our D. 1st line was horrible defensively in game 1, and so was our 1st unit. Both gotta step up big time tonight.

Not to mention Bernier. Gotta prove the season opener flop was just a 1-off ...

Go Leafs Go!!!

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 06:32 PM
Fleury is always the great hope whenever we play the Pens.

Looking for a big game from the top line and Phaneuf. Will be interesting to see how they respond to 36 hours under the microscope.

rated
10-11-2014, 07:03 PM
but OTOH I secretly hope for a 1-9 start so we can get Carlyle fired.



That's pathetic.

I don't like Caryle either, but last thing I'm doing is wishing for my favourite ****ing team to lose.

leafman101
10-11-2014, 07:27 PM
Jonas Siegel
Stuart Percy paired with Roman Polak in warmups. Cody Franson might not play after all.

Killer93
10-11-2014, 07:29 PM
5-2 Pens

zeke
10-11-2014, 07:59 PM
2yr Stats (until the 5-10gm mark):


Line 1

C T.Bozak (28): 104gms, 31gls, 77pts, 43.9cf%, 20:40 (82gms, 25gls, 61pts)
C S.Crosby (27): 116gms, 51gls, 160pts, 54.1cf%, 21:42 (82gms, 36gls, 113pts)

W Phil Kessel (27): 130gms, 57gls, 132pts, 44.9cf%, 20:21 (82gms, 36gls, 83pts)
W C.Kunitz (35): 126gms, 57gls, 120pts, 53.2cf%, 18:43 (82gms, 37gls, 78pts)

W J.Vanriemsdyk (25): 128gms, 48gls, 93pts, 44.7cf%, 20:21 (82gms, 31gls, 60pts)
W P.Hornqvist (27): 100gms, 26gls, 67pts, 51.2cf%, 16:43 (82gms, 21gls, 55pts)

Line 2

C N.Kadri (24): 126gms, 38gls, 94pts, 45.9cf%, 16:53 (82gms, 25gls, 61pts)
C B.Sutter (25): 129gms, 24gls, 45pts, 42.9cf%, 16:00 (82gms, 15gls, 29pts)

W J.Lupul (31): 85gms, 33gls, 62pts, 42.8cf%, 18:01 (82gms, 31gls, 60pts)
W E.Malkin (28): 91gms, 32gls, 105pts, 54.0cf%, 19:57 (82gms, 29gls, 95pts)

W B.Kozun (24): ---
W P.Dupuis (35): 87gms, 27gls, 58pts, 53.0cf%, 17:35 (82gms, 26gls, 55pts)

Line 3

C M.Santorelli (29): 83gms, 12gls, 32pts, 50.6cf%, 15:32 (82gms, 12gls, 32pts)
C Marcel Goc (31): 116gms, 20gls, 44pts, 50.3cf%, 17:02 (82gms, 14gls, 31pts)

W D.Clarkson (30): 108gms, 20gls, 35pts, 49.7cf%, 16:13 (82gms, 15gls, 27pts)
W N.Spaling (26): 118gms, 22gls, 45pts, 44.4cf%15:57 (82gms, 15gls, 31pts)

W L.Komarov (27): 42gms, 4gls, 9pts, 45.7cf%, 13:56 (82gms, 8gls, 17pts)
W B.Comeau (28): 103gms, 11gls, 28pts, 51.5cf%, 12:07 (82gms, 9gls, 22pts)

Line 4

C P.Holland (23): 64gms, 9gls, 16pts, 44.6cf% 11:26 (82gms, 12gls, 21pts)
C Zach Sill (26): 20gms, 0gls, 0pts, 33.9cf%, 10:48 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)

W D.Winnik (29): 124gms, 12gls, 49pts, 48.6cf%, 15:57 (82gms, 8gls, 32pts)
W S.Downie (27): 64gms, 4gls, 25pts, 49.6cf%, 13:56 (82gms, 5gls, 32pts)

W R.Panik (23): 75gms, 8gls, 22pts, 48.9cf%, 12:14 (82gms, 9gls, 24pts)
W C.Adams (37): 130gms, 8gls, 20pts, 41.8cf%, 11:59 (82gms, 5gls, 13pts)



Pair 1

D D.Phaneuf (29): 128gms, 17gls, 59pts, 41.3cf%, 24:13 (82gms, 11gls, 38pts)
D K.Letang (27): 72gms, 16gls, 60pts, 51.3cf%, 24:56 (82gms, 18gls, 68pts)

D S.Robidas (37): 86gms, 6gls, 23pts, 49.6cf%, 21:19 (82gms, 6gls, 22pts)
D C.Ehrhoff (32): 126gms, 11gls, 55pts, 47.6cf%, 24:23 (82gms, 7gls, 36pts)

Pair 2

D J.Gardiner (24): 92gms, 10gls, 35pts, 46.6cf%, 21:00 (82gms, 9gls, 31pts)
D P.Martin (33): 73gms, 9gls, 38pts, 49.8cf%, 24:55 (82gms, 10gls, 43pts)

D M.Rielly (20): 73gms, 2gls, 27pts, 44.5cf%, 17:37 (82gms, 2gls, 30pts)
D O.Maatta (20): 78gms, 9gls, 29pts, 50.6cf%, 18:30 (82gms, 10gls, 31pts)

Pair 3

D R.Polak (28): 120gms, 5gls, 19pts, 49.5cf%, 17:46 (82gms, 3gls, 13pts)
D R.Scuderi (36): 101gms, 1gls, 16pts, 47.5cf%, 20:17 (82gms, 1gls, 13pts)

D S.Percy (21): ---
D S.Despres (23): 67gms, 2gls, 12pts, 52.2cf%, 15:57 (82gms, 3gls, 15pts)



Starting Goalie

G J.Bernier (26): .922sv% (69gms)
G M.Fleury (30): .916sv% (97gms)

Backup Goalie

G J.Reimer (26): .917sv% (69gms)
G T.Greiss (28): .919sv% (31gms)



Injured / Suspended

W D.Booth (30): 78gms, 10gls, 22pts, 53.0cf%, 13:21 (82gms, 11gls, 23pts)
D C.Franson (27): 124gms, 9gls, 62pts, 45.2cf%, 20:00 (82gms, 6gls, 41pts)

F B.Bennett (23): 47gms, 6gls, 21pts, 52.0cf%,12:59 (82gms, 11gls, 37pts)
D R.Bortuzzo (25): 69gms, 2gls, 14pts, 46.2cf%, 15:00 (82gms, 2gls, 17pts)

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:06 PM
winnik on the second line to start, and it gives them a great offensive zone shift.

interesting because winnik does have the fourth best 2yr scoring pace of our wingers, not that that says too much. good board and net presence for that line maybe.

also makes for an interesting "old kid line" as a 4th line of panik-holland-kozun.

madvillain
10-11-2014, 08:11 PM
Pretty weak goal there.

hockeylover
10-11-2014, 08:11 PM
I'm surprised he didn't have that...

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:12 PM
wake up bernier.

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 08:12 PM
Book it out ... shoot from a very tough angle.

hockeylover
10-11-2014, 08:14 PM
In the preseason games I saw, I thought Bernier looked pretty damn good. Not the start I was expecting.

hockeylover
10-11-2014, 08:15 PM
Wow. Going downhill fast.

da_next_kid
10-11-2014, 08:16 PM
2-0 already. Yikes.

Deckie007
10-11-2014, 08:16 PM
Yuck. 2 ugly goals.

Killer93
10-11-2014, 08:17 PM
Bernier looking Toskala like thus far

da_next_kid
10-11-2014, 08:18 PM
Healy dick riding Crosby.

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:18 PM
one ugly goal, one bad bounce.

let's see if they panic.

da_next_kid
10-11-2014, 08:19 PM
Don't think you can blame Bernie on the second one. That was on Robidas more than anything.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 08:19 PM
:facepalm

This ****ing team.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 08:20 PM
Are they yelling booo, or Boooernier?


That first goal was ****ing abysmal. Bernier has not been sharp at all to start the season. He's not to blame for the 2nd one, but he absolutely over played the point shot.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 08:21 PM
The top line waking up at some point would be much appreciated.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 08:21 PM
Seems to be more of what we saw last season, a team that didn't come out ready to compete, go down a goal or two...then finally find their stride, and try to storm back into the game.


Just ****ing fire Randy already.

ForeverTML
10-11-2014, 08:21 PM
This team looks 2 times slower than the pens. I mean just watch the hustle.

We had 3 days of rest too. Carlyle is back to his dumbfoumded look again behind the bench...

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 08:22 PM
They're just getting outworked ... again.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 08:23 PM
Nothing has changed from last year. Just fire Randy now.

ForeverTML
10-11-2014, 08:25 PM
Panik with the big hit.

The guy who became a leaf two days ago. The other stiffs are doing **** all.

da_next_kid
10-11-2014, 08:26 PM
Clarkson on the 2nd PP again.

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:26 PM
clarkson on the pp to win puck battles....doesn't win the puck battle.

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:30 PM
2nd line our best line again. winnik working well there.

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:33 PM
shoulda been a breakaway - turns into a pk.f

madvillain
10-11-2014, 08:33 PM
**** you refs

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:34 PM
and then a super gay call to put us down two.

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:35 PM
randy would yank reimer here.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 08:36 PM
So....when do we pull Bernier?


That's 2 super soft goals and another that he didn't play well at all.

ForeverTML
10-11-2014, 08:37 PM
yuckk wtf is this shit.

Deckie007
10-11-2014, 08:37 PM
#entitled

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 08:38 PM
Our break out is a mess. Our compete level is a mess. Our possession is a mess.


Everything is a complete ****ing mess.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 08:39 PM
Our break out is a mess. Our compete level is a mess. Our possession is a mess.


Everything is a complete ****ing mess.

The same as last year. Nothing has changed.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 08:39 PM
What a shitshow of a period.

ForeverTML
10-11-2014, 08:40 PM
We dont have a system, we dont have a plan, we dont have any energy.

Good ****ing combo there.

I just need a W this weekend...is that too much to ask?

Deckie007
10-11-2014, 08:41 PM
Going to watch the game on Omni 2. Should be more entertaining with the Punjabi commentary.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 08:41 PM
My only saving grace for the next couple of periods is that Fleury is still on the other side. If the team gets their head out of their asses, they can get back into the game.

Matrim
10-11-2014, 08:41 PM
Well that was a ****ing brutal period of hockey by the Leafs.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 08:42 PM
We dont have a system, we dont have a plan, we dont have any energy.

Good ****ing combo there.

I just need a W this weekend...is that too much to ask?

Probably, yes.

Volcanologist
10-11-2014, 08:44 PM
Somebody might want to tell our guys that preseason is over.

utter shitshow thus far.

hockeylover
10-11-2014, 08:50 PM
Cherry skewers the Leafs for drafting Nylander instead of Ritchie.

Interesting. If we'd drafted Ritchie, there was a lot of people ready to laugh at us anyway - "typical Leafs". Can't win.

Deckie007
10-11-2014, 08:51 PM
Yeah, once he started talking about the Leafs not drafting Canadians, I switched the channel.

zeke
10-11-2014, 08:57 PM
actually don't think it was that bad a period. we were outplayed, sure.

an ugly goal and then two pp goals. we had some good chances too.

rated
10-11-2014, 08:59 PM
Going to watch the game on Omni 2. Should be more entertaining with the Punjabi commentary.

lol this is great, and understandable....

blahblahblah toronto blahblahblaj power play blahblahblah offside

im following

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 08:59 PM
Sleepwalking to start the 2nd....whatever Randy said must have worked like a ****ing charm

zeke
10-11-2014, 09:01 PM
that was not a high stick.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 09:02 PM
that was not a high stick.


It was a really, really high stick

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 09:03 PM
A lot of perimeter floating as well, nobody willing to get to the net.

Deckie007
10-11-2014, 09:08 PM
Beauty pass Morgan!

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 09:09 PM
Our 1st pp unit comes through.

da_next_kid
10-11-2014, 09:09 PM
Naz did well to absorb the PIT PK guys and pass it back to Jake, created the room for Lupes to score. Great pass by Rielly too.

Killer93
10-11-2014, 09:18 PM
Looks like Winnik is on the 2nd line in place of Kozun, Kessel struggles continue

soco22
10-11-2014, 09:21 PM
Dion needs to stop going to shitty angles on the PP. Should watch some McCabe video from when he played with Kaberle on how to position himself.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 09:25 PM
Big period by Bernier thus far. FAAAACK another stupid penalty. Can't take these against Pittsburgh and expect to be successful.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 09:26 PM
As bad as we've been...the difference in this game is the 2 shitty goals Bernier gave up.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 09:27 PM
As bad as we've been...the difference in this game is the 2 shitty goals Bernier gave up.

Disagree. Stupid penalties, and shoddy defensive zone coverage has not helped. Bernier hasn't been great but we deserve to be down right now.

Killer93
10-11-2014, 09:28 PM
4-1 Pens

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 09:28 PM
Great job of clearing the front of the net Dion.

Matrim
10-11-2014, 09:31 PM
Pretty awful game so far. Leafs look like shit.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 09:36 PM
Just a pathetic effort. No excuse for this after Wednesday's game.

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 09:42 PM
Nice deflection by Dion to sink the team's chances.

Killer93
10-11-2014, 09:42 PM
Only 5 periods very early but they are in McDavid territory

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 09:42 PM
At least dumb **** is playing the Kadri line tonight. But matching the Bozie line with Crosby's is just stupid.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 09:44 PM
Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Dion still look like they don't want to be here. WAKE UP!

Feyd
10-11-2014, 09:48 PM
Tick tock, Randy

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 09:49 PM
I remember back in the day the Bruins fired Pat Burns after an 0-4-0 start to the season. If the Leafs lose and lose bad tomorrow, his time may just be up.

zeke
10-11-2014, 09:55 PM
more kadri and rielly, please.

Pronger84
10-11-2014, 09:58 PM
What did I ****ing,tell u boys about bernier, shoulda played riemer instead, 3 of those 4 he let in were weak as sin. Bernier needs to ride the pine for th next few games.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 09:59 PM
Our 3rd line is pretty ****ing good....for a change

zeke
10-11-2014, 09:59 PM
clarkson off the third line = good third line shift

Pronger84
10-11-2014, 09:59 PM
Our 3rd line is pretty ****ing good....for a change

Yup imo our best one 2nite.. More of that please.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 10:01 PM
Moar Kadri

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 10:02 PM
clarkson off the third line = good third line shift

Yeah...but he's on the 1st line now

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 10:11 PM
Pa...thetic.

Pronger84
10-11-2014, 10:12 PM
Yup.

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:13 PM
we're gonna give up 50+ shots.

Killer93
10-11-2014, 10:13 PM
Disgusting effort

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:16 PM
percy's made some bad giveaways tonight but he's making a habit of those nifty surprise backhand saucer passes.

leaffan2005
10-11-2014, 10:17 PM
Sure seems like a team not playing for their coach. Think it's a very overrated position in hockey but a change is needed. We aren't the most talented team out there so if the effort is continuously subpar, success is not on the horizon.

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:18 PM
is robidas injured?

Pronger84
10-11-2014, 10:19 PM
is robidas injured?

Not sure haven't heard anything.

Killer93
10-11-2014, 10:22 PM
Fan threw jersey onto the ice

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 10:22 PM
Shit like this would be a lot easier to deal with if we weren't a clearly talented hockey club.


They look lazy, disorganized, poorly positioned. That's all coaching.

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:24 PM
its pretty amazing how low my expectations are for clarkson. and how he can never even meet them.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 10:26 PM
Jerseys cost more than waffles......

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 10:32 PM
In retrospect, doesn't seem like going with Randy was a good call. ha ha

Tool.

madvillain
10-11-2014, 10:37 PM
Looks just like last year's team.

Sooner they fire the coach, the better.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 10:37 PM
It's really hard to watch other clubs consistently get more, out of less. New Jersey comes to mind.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 10:39 PM
Fan throws a jersey on the ice, Leafs boo'ed off the ice, what a night. :explode

axlsalinger
10-11-2014, 10:41 PM
Well, that sucked.

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 10:41 PM
A little worrisome that Kadri's line looked MUCH better with Kozun than Kessel, no?

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:41 PM
i will say this - that's a pretty fearsome pens team when healthy.

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 10:42 PM
This team is a heck of a buzzkill. I need more.

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:43 PM
A little worrisome that Kadri's line looked MUCH better with Kozun than Kessel, no?

looked best with winnik, i think. nit a great game four kozun or the other fourth liners.

but yeah, kessel's been pure shit so far.

MindzEye
10-11-2014, 10:47 PM
Habs & Sens win in shootouts.....

http://troll.me/images/brace-yourselves/brace-yourself-trolls-are-coming.jpg

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:47 PM
probably doesn't mean much due to resting guys for tommorrow, but for the helluvit:

gards 23:04
rielly 21:53

polak 20:49
percy 20:21

phaneuf 19:40
robidad 13:33

BeLeafer
10-11-2014, 10:48 PM
looked best with winnik, i think. nit a great game four kozun or the other fourth liners.

but yeah, kessel's been pure shit so far.

Kessel is old time hockey. Use the first 10 games to get your ass into shape. I never watched until after the first 10 years ago, as it was just a bunch of out of shape guys.

zeke
10-11-2014, 10:53 PM
kadri 17:44
lupul 17:57
kessel 16:51

bozak 16:31
vanryk 18:02
clarkson 15:16

santo 12:15
komarov 14:58
winnik 12:31

holland 10:01
kozun 12:05
panik 8:17

hockeylover
10-11-2014, 10:54 PM
Sucks. Definitely starting the year just like they finished the last one.

Habsy
10-11-2014, 10:55 PM
Habs & Sens win in shootouts.....

http://troll.me/images/brace-yourselves/brace-yourself-trolls-are-coming.jpg
Heh, scored 3 goals in the third to come back.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 11:01 PM
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050 8m8 minutes ago
Kessel: "My line in particular we didn't get shit done."

KingTucker
10-11-2014, 11:03 PM
A little worrisome that Kadri's line looked MUCH better with Kozun than Kessel, no?

@Jeffler posted the possession metrics and Kardi and Winnik had the best ones on the team...and yeah, Kessel saying his line didn't do shit is about all that needs be said.
I mean, I'm used to a certain amount of self-flagellation as a Leafs fan, but I'm still not getting why they didn't jettison Carlyle in the off-season. They are going to have to do it soon if they want some semblance of a change, and Shanny is going to look like a doofus for the extension, it reeks of Burke giving Wilson an extension then having to do axe him.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-11-2014, 11:39 PM
David Alter ‏@dalter 3m3 minutes ago
9 GAs in 1st 2 games by #Leafs to start season is most since giving up 10 Goals in start of 09-10, That was indeed the 0-7-1 start.

number17
10-12-2014, 12:04 AM
Well, Bernier has been pretty bad in the first 2 games, and Pittsburgh has been dynamite so I won't necessarily read too much into 9GA.

However, we gave up 70+ shots after 2 games.

And this is after we 'revamped our defensive system' ... and forget the stats. Watching the game with my eyes it's the same system, the same problems. It was a dumb idea to think Carlyle could change to begin with. Shanny specifically said he doesn't want the team to play "swamp system" again. Well, watching game 1 and game 2, with the exception of the first 20 min of this season, it's very much the same ol' swamp.

So, Randy must go, end of story. The sooner we fire Randy, the better it is.

Other than that ...

- Clarkson still sucks, but is it just me or has he actually played better tonight?
- Don't look now, Bozak is on pace for 82G this season. I know he's not played well, but out of the 3 of them, he's the most excusable with 2G after 2 games. Interesting thing is both goals have nothing to do with his linemates ... it's Percy who fed him both passes!
- And despite some turnovers, I think Percy has looked very, very good so far. I never thought he'd be NHL-ready before Holzer, Granberg ... he's sure jumped over a few names on the depth chart
- Kozun was pretty invisible after moved off the 2nd line ... I didn't even notice him tonight
- I like Santorelli a lot. I think his puck skill, his hockey sense, his ability to possess the puck through traffic all make him a very good depth center
- Lupul, who looked like crap at camp, has played well and much better than Kessel and JVR
- A cold Kessel is all it takes to get Carlyle fired - or so I hope
- Robidas's not played well at all ... Phaneuf was terrible in game 1, but has played better in game 2. Robidas OTOH played poorly again tonight ... and did he play in the 3rd? Was he injured?
- Good for JVR to show some emotion at the end of the game. I know it's only game #2, but when you get humiliated like the Pens tonight you gotta show you care
- I know fans are frustrated, but throwing a jersey on the ice? What we've had is nothing compared to the Oilers fans under Lowe / MacT ... unless that's a fake jersey then I guess it's ok :)

Well, it's the same ol Randy and same ol Leafs. For the sake of getting a new coach, let's hope we fall to 0-3 tomorrow.

Matrim
10-12-2014, 12:43 AM
I never thought I'd see a game where David Clarkson would play better than Phil Kessel but it happened.

They need to split up Rielly and Gardiner, they have not been good defensively. Maybe a Percy - Phaneuf, Rielly - Robidas, Gardnier - Polak group would work better, I don't know.

Also Caryle needs to be fired, it doesn't even look like the Leafs have a system, just a bunch of guys playing individually. It's like they didn't even have a training camp.

blacksheep
10-12-2014, 12:48 AM
5-2 Pens

Atta boy! Good job!

CRL
10-12-2014, 12:58 AM
McDavid!

blacksheep
10-12-2014, 01:14 AM
First shot on Bernier = first goal against two games in a row. Pronger84 was correct - we should have started the goalie with the better stats vs. the Pens.
But no. That's not the Carlyle way.
The best part was how he let Bernier's off night drag on. Three goals against by the end of the first period, and Randy STILL left him to hang in net. Hell, even the best goalies in the league have an off night. The difference is, THEIR coaches might actually pull them on those nights.
Not Randy. That's not the Carlyle way.
Again, Reimer should have started - NOT because he deserves to be number one, but because his record vs. the Pens is better. At the very least, James could have come in after period one.
And how's that revamped PP lineup? Oh, that's right. Franson and Clarkson still anchor it. Nevermind.
So what about Kessel's cold start. He can't carry this team EVERY night.
Is it clear now that Randy must go?
Is it clear now that Randy won't change?
Are we done searching for scapegoats on the ice?

LeafGm
10-12-2014, 02:56 AM
Reimer will probably get the chance to start tomorrow. Hopefully he'll step up more than he did at the end of last year.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 09:24 AM
This is reimers chance here to open the door for himself he just has to take the lead,,I mean it's not as if berniers been inspiring confidence out there.

I don't care if we lose but **** me I want a more inspired effort from everyone tonight.

leafman101
10-12-2014, 09:36 AM
Lupul, Kadri, Winnik and Percy had good games. Everyone else was garbage. Winik (82%) and Kadri (50%) were the only positive Corsi's on the team. Lupul (46%), Bozak (42%) and Phaneuf (42%) were the only other players over 40%. As soon as they went down early, they fell back into old habits.

The Pens looked good. Their top 4 with Letang, Martin, Ehrhoff and Maatta is really good.

ForeverTML
10-12-2014, 09:43 AM
Just a garbage start and a complete lack of effort. This is coaching period. Changing assistants is going to do **** all when the guy behind just fails to inspire.

Its pretty damn clear that the team is just not responding to randy.

I honestly didnt expect a win tonight, but I expected some effort, but got neither. Phil's line is complete dog crap. They are essentially a very bad third line on this team right now.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 10:42 AM
I can fault Carlye for a lot of things but that piss poor effort was on the players, no coach is going to their players to half ass it out there like they did last night... It's time the players are held accountable for their pathetic actions.

BeLeafer
10-12-2014, 11:54 AM
Reimer will probably get the chance to start tomorrow. Hopefully he'll step up more than he did at the end of last year.

It's a win-win. If he shits the bed, it's another nail in Randy's coffin.

Pucklosopher
10-12-2014, 12:23 PM
The Kessel line really needs to get going. They have been plain bad. Not bad as in bad for a first line, or only average when the Leafs need them to be great. Just flat out bad.

The whole team will look a lot better if the top-line gets going.

Bleedsblue&white
10-12-2014, 01:02 PM
This can't be just one thing unfortunately. The coach shouldn't have to get the team up in their second game of the season, but he is the head of the problem so at what point do you stop chopping at all the various bits and just decapitate?

I really want a coach to come in and change things, but I am afraid there are still too many of the wrong guys here. Skill can be argued, not effort.

Bleedsblue&white
10-12-2014, 01:02 PM
It is only two games though.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 01:20 PM
This can't be just one thing unfortunately. The coach shouldn't have to get the team up in their second game of the season, but he is the head of the problem so at what point do you stop chopping at all the various bits and just decapitate?

I really want a coach to come in and change things, but I am afraid there are still too many of the wrong guys here. Skill can be argued, not effort.

Exactly the players are being payed millions to do something they enjoy so why can't they motivate themselves to bring their best effort, that's why I feel the lack of effort is on them and not randy I mean for all his warts I doubt he tells them not to show up each game.

Here's an interesting thing though, we have been through 3 epic collapses under 2 different coaches and 2 general managers yet the core has remained, so at what point do we start looking at guys like Kessel, phaneuf, lupul, bozak, gardiner as part of the problem...

I mean I'm all for firing randy but will things really change even if we bring in a guy like Babcock, I am not so sure they will.

MindzEye
10-12-2014, 02:00 PM
Here's an interesting thing though, we have been through 3 epic collapses under 2 different coaches and 2 general managers yet the core has remained, so at what point do we start looking at guys like Kessel, phaneuf, lupul, bozak, gardiner as part of the problem...


When the performances of those players (and Gardiner....for real?...dude is like 24 and has been a regular for 3 years) are the reasons for the collapse, then you start blaming them.

You can hang last year's collapse somewhat on Phaneuf's shoulders....but even then, it was mainly a mixture of a poorly coached hockey team having it's bad habits catch up with it when the goaltending took a shit down the stretch. The collapse against the Bruins...I'd also argue was heavily based on shitty coaching and over use of Phaneuf down the stretch of that game, not taking a time out at an appropriate moment, and honestly...shaky as **** goaltending.

If you want to get into the other collapse under Wilson 4 years ago, that had a lot to do with our entire 2nd line disappearing (namely, Grabovski) and having shitty goaltending (a concussed Reimer and little else)

I've never understood the thought process behind throwing your good players under the bus when the team loses and ignoring the pile of clearly bad players behind them.

BeLeafer
10-12-2014, 02:18 PM
Sure seems like Phil disappeared as much as anyone for last year's collapse.

October-February: 61 games, 32 goals, 67 points (1.1 ppg)
March-April: 21 games, 5 goals, 13 points (0.62 ppg)

Final 14 games: 3 goals, 7 points (0.5 ppg)

PKForce81
10-12-2014, 02:29 PM
This can't be just one thing unfortunately. The coach shouldn't have to get the team up in their second game of the season, but he is the head of the problem so at what point do you stop chopping at all the various bits and just decapitate?

I really want a coach to come in and change things, but I am afraid there are still too many of the wrong guys here. Skill can be argued, not effort.


Someone is figuring it out.

Been saying that for awhile although the last 2 games are all on Randy because he refuses to change our top 2 lines. They will be switched now(im guessing after that brutal game) to give us better balance but i still am going with what i said at the beginning of this season. We don't have the right mix to be the top 5 team in our Conference. With this makeup right now, we can probably make lines that can just get into playoffs...but that's as good as we'll get. We replaced all the Kuly, Grabo, Mac who at least had 1 great year with a lot of possession guys now(Santo, Komarov etc) who aren't going to be able to put up points when our 1st 2 lines start struggling. I do like the cycle game of that line so at least we'll spend more time in the other zone if nothing else. Of course Nonis needs to be let go even more because he isn't able to see that this team just isn't good enough..Clarkson signing alone should have gotten him fired.

PKForce81
10-12-2014, 02:34 PM
Sure seems like Phil disappeared as much as anyone for last year's collapse.

October-February: 61 games, 32 goals, 67 points (1.1 ppg)
March-April: 21 games, 5 goals, 13 points (0.62 ppg)

Final 14 games: 3 goals, 7 points (0.5 ppg)

Simple really. When it gets to the final 15-20 games and teams are fighting to make it, teams who can play that defensive style and win board battles(Kings, Devils etc) are much tougher to beat. We have way too many guys on our top 2 lines where skill alone isn't enough when they go up against that style..hence why Phil wasn't able to be so effective near the end. Playoff teams show up when it counts.

Artnes
10-12-2014, 02:40 PM
Or maybe it was something as simple as being burnt out from being relied on to much from October to March.

Phil is not the problem here.

BeLeafer
10-12-2014, 02:43 PM
So, our top forward and our top blueliner get burnt out after 60+ games because they are leaned on like top players and that's not a problem?

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 02:50 PM
When the performances of those players (and Gardiner....for real?...dude is like 24 and has been a regular for 3 years) are the reasons for the collapse, then you start blaming them.

You can hang last year's collapse somewhat on Phaneuf's shoulders....but even then, it was mainly a mixture of a poorly coached hockey team having it's bad habits catch up with it when the goaltending took a shit down the stretch. The collapse against the Bruins...I'd also argue was heavily based on shitty coaching and over use of Phaneuf down the stretch of that game, not taking a time out at an appropriate moment, and honestly...shaky as **** goaltending.

If you want to get into the other collapse under Wilson 4 years ago, that had a lot to do with our entire 2nd line disappearing (namely, Grabovski) and having shitty goaltending (a concussed Reimer and little else)

I've never understood the thought process behind throwing your good players under the bus when the team loses and ignoring the pile of clearly bad players behind them.

They are the common link in all 3 collapses, I'm not saying that I think they are solely to blame for,the meldowns over the years clearly there are other variables to consider but at what point do we stop making excuses for the core players.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 02:51 PM
Or maybe it was something as simple as being burnt out from being relied on to much from October to March.

Phil is not the problem here.

He's also not the solution either...

PKForce81
10-12-2014, 02:58 PM
So, our top forward and our top blueliner get burnt out after 60+ games because they are leaned on like top players and that's not a problem?

I've really liked Naz's game the past season or so..he's come a long way and fits well in our top 6. What i would do to correct the problem(some will hate it but i think it's right)..You get rid of JVR(who's very much about speed and skill and pussy on the boards) and Bozak as well.. Get us a center with size(doesn't have to be elite either...and a top 6 winger with size..basically a Clarkson that can actually do something). That imo would solve our issue. Stewart would have been a nice fit imo.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:01 PM
Simple really. When it gets to the final 15-20 games and teams are fighting to make it, teams who can play that defensive style and win board battles(Kings, Devils etc) are much tougher to beat. We have way too many guys on our top 2 lines where skill alone isn't enough when they go up against that style..hence why Phil wasn't able to be so effective near the end. Playoff teams show up when it counts.

If we're looking at la as a comparison that team was built through the pipes, then the blueline, then they either drafted or acquired 2 way centres who excel on faceoffs and can play a 200 foot game,,lastly they added wingers who like u said can play a physical game and win their fair share of board battles.

The leafs goofed when they started off by building around Kessel, sure he has a lot of skill but hes a complimentary player not someone to ancho a team. Burke did get it right by stockpiling the goalie depth and nonis did right by acquiring for bernier as well, were above average in net if u ask me. Our blueline has some depth and nice prospect we've drafted over the years but we are also missing that game changing top pairing defencmen that can excel in all situations of the game, Rielly might be that guy but he needs a little bit more time to grow his game. Our top 6 wingers are skilled no doubt but weak as **** along the walls and a joke without the puck, they truly are dangerous at both ends of the ice every time their feet touch the the ice. Our biggest thing we are missing is two way centres down the middle that can balance out the lines, who can win their draws more then average, who can muck it up along the wall and who just played an intelligent game in all aspects of the game.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:03 PM
I've really liked Naz's game the past season or so..he's come a long way and fits well in our top 6. What i would do to correct the problem(some will hate it but i think it's right)..You get rid of JVR(who's very much about speed and skill and pussy on the boards) and Bozak as well.. Get us a center with size(doesn't have to be elite either...and a top 6 winger with size..basically a Clarkson that can actually do something). That imo would solve our issue. Stewart would have been a nice fit imo.


The centre doesn't have to necessarily be big but intelligent,aka a Bergeron type is what we are badly lacking down the middle.

GEEMAN
10-12-2014, 03:06 PM
he and Dion are the not the cornerstone pieces you start your team with , nothing wrong with either or but are the wrong players for a team like the Leafs , you make your move to acquire these guys when you are Chicago or LA and have the Toews`s, Doughty`s, , etc.... in place . Now you have 2 dudes paid franchise money and are parts of a core with no main core in place. You need to dump some vets and pray to God you get Mac or Jack in June.

Burke fked it up from day one , he had the chance to truly do a proper rebuild , the Leafs would of had 3-4 of the top young guns in the game right now and on the road to a solid team , he built and patched on the fly with nice talented players but not the right mix and now have mega contracts in place . Regardless what avenue Burke took the quick fix or right rebuild , this was going to be a 3-5 year process , and the the lockout made it worse by having a bit of success in a shortened season and then you had no choice to continue the quick fix .

Tough combo to work with , capped out and not good enough overall .

BeLeafer
10-12-2014, 03:08 PM
I've really liked Naz's game the past season or so..he's come a long way and fits well in our top 6. What i would do to correct the problem(some will hate it but i think it's right)..You get rid of JVR(who's very much about speed and skill and pussy on the boards) and Bozak as well.. Get us a center with size(doesn't have to be elite either...and a top 6 winger with size..basically a Clarkson that can actually do something). That imo would solve our issue. Stewart would have been a nice fit imo.

Definitely not keen at all on trading JVR (we'd almost certainly regret that unless we got an elite player back).

PKForce81
10-12-2014, 03:10 PM
The centre doesn't have to necessarily be big but intelligent,aka a Bergeron type is what we are badly lacking down the middle.

We'll see about that soon enough because i think Bozie is pretty responsible and tries but i've always argued the other 2 float too much and leave him doing too much alone. If they split them up and have Bozie with other players(like they did for a bit in our last game) they might all benefit. Naz and Lupul are pretty good with board play and Phil can just do his thing. Bozak together with JVR and Clarkson(problem is here as he's still not good enough except maybe 3rd/4th line duty) might end up a decent line if they can get some chemistry.

Hoss
10-12-2014, 03:10 PM
I am of the mind that this is two games. And two games against ec finalists and pittsburght that put up six against Anaheim and a new coach that is obviously working with the best player in the world that is healthy.

I want to see their effort against New York and Detroit before we all run out of our house burning our jerseys

PKForce81
10-12-2014, 03:13 PM
Definitely not keen at all on trading JVR (we'd almost certainly regret that unless we got an elite player back).

I like the guy, i really do. Who wouldn't like a 30 goal scorer(and he will probably get close to that every year)? I just think that's our big issue on our top 6. Too many similar players. Aside from Lupul and Naz who can do fairly well during board play and otherwise, the other guys are way too weak and so we can't give other teams any different looks. New coach comes in he'll have to deal with this same shit...Not an easy fix unless you can find that balance within or trade some top players.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:19 PM
Definitely not keen at all on trading JVR (we'd almost certainly regret that unless we got an elite player back).

No player should be untouchable, none. If u think we'd get an elite talent for jvr I doubt it, I do think we could get a first rounder, decent prospect as well as a roster player for him but imo it won't be elite.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:20 PM
We'll see about that soon enough because i think Bozie is pretty responsible and tries but i've always argued the other 2 float too much and leave him doing too much alone. If they split them up and have Bozie with other players(like they did for a bit in our last game) they might all benefit. Naz and Lupul are pretty good with board play and Phil can just do his thing. Bozak together with JVR and Clarkson(problem is here as he's still not good enough except maybe 3rd/4th line duty) might end up a decent line if they can get some chemistry.

The big problem with bozak is he's regressing badly on his faceoffs, don't mimd him as a player but wouldn't miss him if dealt either.

Leafin'
10-12-2014, 03:22 PM
I am willing to wait out the year to see what we've got. It's only been 2 games. That being said, something about this team isn't working. the effort level is puke worthy. I took my grandfather to the game last night and the one thing he mentioned was the lack of care the players showed in the result. They were flat and did nothing to change the outcome of the game. His quote "they're playing like they have nothing to play for. Think of the last game of the season when you know you haven't made the playoffs, you just go through the motions to get it over with".

Now i'm not saying that he's 100% correct in his view, but boy that was a garbage effort last night.

BeLeafer
10-12-2014, 03:22 PM
I like the guy, i really do. Who wouldn't like a 30 goal scorer(and he will probably get close to that every year)? I just think that's our big issue on our top 6. Too many similar players. Aside from Lupul and Naz who can do fairly well during board play and otherwise, the other guys are way too weak and so we can't give other teams any different looks. New coach comes in he'll have to deal with this same shit...Not an easy fix unless you can find that balance within or trade some top players.

The big issue on our top six is Bozak.

JVR has not maxed his upside, imo. He's still just 25 years old.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:23 PM
Listen to your grandfather he seems like he knows what he's talking about.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:24 PM
The big issue on our top six is Bozak.

JVR has not maxed his upside, imo. He's still just 25 years old.

This.

Leafin'
10-12-2014, 03:24 PM
The big problem with bozak is he's regressing badly on his faceoffs, don't mimd him as a player but wouldn't miss him if dealt either.

Bozak won 57% of his faceoffs last night.

Metalleaf
10-12-2014, 03:30 PM
What's this myth of Bozak regressing on faceoffs? He had a down year last year but he's been over 50% every other season.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:32 PM
Bozak won 57% of his faceoffs last night.

One game, look at his past 3 seasons

11/12- 52.7
12/13- 52.6
13/14- 48.6

Metalleaf
10-12-2014, 03:37 PM
So like I said he had a down year last season

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 03:38 PM
Regression means to get worse, going from nearly 53 percent to 48 percent is a drop off. Hopefully it's a one year off thing and he can get back on the saddle, we will see though by seasons end.

Metalleaf
10-12-2014, 03:40 PM
He regressed on faceoffs in an injury plagued season? Le Gasp!

SundinsTooth
10-12-2014, 03:41 PM
Or he had a poor year...and 52% is more likely where his talent level lies. Unless you are arguing that 52.7 to 52.6 is some kind of a major down trend.

zeke
10-12-2014, 03:41 PM
statistical regression means to revert back to normal, not to get worse.

Leafin'
10-12-2014, 03:53 PM
Bozak's faceoffs are not the problem with him being in the top 6.

MindzEye
10-12-2014, 03:55 PM
They are the common link in all 3 collapses, I'm not saying that I think they are solely to blame for,the meldowns over the years clearly there are other variables to consider but at what point do we stop making excuses for the core players.

Conflating the 3 collapses is an analytical mistake. All 3 had their own dynamic and only by looking into each one individually can you come to understand the 3 as a whole.

MindzEye
10-12-2014, 04:00 PM
The problem with this club isn't Kessel and Phaneuf. The great clubs around the league have Sharp's, Seabrook's, Kane's, Carter's, Gaborik's, etc insulating their top guys. We have high talent kids and Lupul, Bozak, etc.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 04:14 PM
Conflating the 3 collapses is an analytical mistake. All 3 had their own dynamic and only by looking into each one individually can you come to understand the 3 as a whole.

Yes, all 3 were different that's for sure, I can't even remember how we tailspinned in 12/13 but last playoffs one was due to players sitting back and allowing Boston to dictate things. Last years collapse was many reasons such as berniers injury, the top line fading badly and no secondary scoring to help back them up.

BeLeafer
10-12-2014, 04:22 PM
statistical regression means to revert back to normal, not to get worse.

Statistical regression has nothing to do with reverting to normal or getting worse. It's a technique used to explain an outcome (namely, the variance of a variable). This term is misused a fair bit among the advanced stats crowd (at least from what I've seen).

I think what they often mean is a "regression to the mean" ... which is not the same thing, but they call it regression. This is not a statistical concept to be used for individual phenomena but rather group phenomena. The mean in the case of faceoffs is the league average ... which presumably is 50%. If Bozak were regressing to the mean, he'd be doing exactly what he did last year (48.6 is closer to the mean than his previous years).

zeke
10-12-2014, 04:51 PM
yes, you are correct.

though I think an individual's faceoff totals can be used as the "mean" in a regression to mean argument for his small sample outlier performance.

Pronger84
10-12-2014, 04:53 PM
The problem with this club isn't Kessel and Phaneuf. The great clubs around the league have Sharp's, Seabrook's, Kane's, Carter's, Gaborik's, etc insulating their top guys. We have high talent kids and Lupul, Bozak, etc.

So the problem would be the gm for bringing in these players without any insulation first then.

BeLeafer
10-12-2014, 05:03 PM
yes, you are correct.

though I think an individual's faceoff totals can be used as the "mean" in a regression to mean argument for his small sample outlier performance.

I too think that is fair enough. He's had 3 seasons above 50% and one below. I'm not a fan of the regression to mean concept. If we were to employ it fairly, I think you'd have to use the mean of all top 2 centres from the league ... which is almost certainly above 50% but probably lower than Bozak's mean.

In any event, it's been one of his key strengths that legitimizes his being in the top six. It is probably more reasonable to expect him to go above 50% again. If he doesn't, get him off this team!

zeke
10-13-2014, 12:57 AM
55.7%!