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BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 12:02 AM
Leafs facing the Islanders on the road. They played a good game on Saturday, but hard to have any confidence that this team will build on a good effort. Without being overly cynical, it's reasonable to expect they may just lay another egg.

Of course, there's no reason this team shouldn't be able to string some wins together. They seems to play better away from Toronto. If Randy can't squeeze a correction out of this team, it's time to dust off Plan B. No sense in digging a deep hole.

Last year's numbers of note:

Leafs record: 1-1-1

Bernier: 3 games, 3.65 GAA, .885 save percentage

Kessel: 3 games, 3 goals, 4 points

Tavares: 3 games, 0 goals, 3 points

zeke
10-21-2014, 12:25 AM
For the first time I'm using this year's stats for the comps.

I've added in Even Strength Zone-Adjusted Corsi for each player, instead of just Corsi. Still not a perfect number but a much better one to use at least. Unfortunately some of the player haven't qualified with enough ES minutes yet so there's no number for them.


1st Line

C T.Bozak (28): 6gms, 3gls, 6pts, 43.0cf%, 18:54 (82gms, 41gls, 82pts)
C J.Tavares (24): 5gms, 2gls, 9pts, 50.0cf%, 20:59 (82gms, 33gls, 148pts)

W P.Kessel (27): 6gms, 2gls, 5pts, 40.3cf%, 19:48 (82gms, 27gls, 66pts)
W K.Okposo (26): 5gms, 2gls, 7pts, 50.0cf%, 20:41 (82gms, 33gls, 115pts)

W J.Vanriemsdyk (25): 6gms, 2gls, 3pts, 42.4cf%, 19:22 (82gms, 27gls, 41pts)
W C.Conacher (25): 5gms, 1gls, 1pts, 46.0cf%, 15:59 (82gms, 16gls, 16pts)

2nd Line

C N.Kadri (24): 6gms, 2gls, 2pts, 56.4cf%, 16:47 (82gms, 27gls, 27pts)
C F.Nielsen (30): 5gms, 0gls, 3pts, ---cf%, 16:39 (82gms, 0gls, 49pts)

W J.Lupul (31): 6gms, 2gls, 3pts, 56.8cf%, 18:16 (82gms, 27gls, 41pts)
W R.Strome (21): 5gms, 0gls, 5pts, ---cf%, 13:11 (82gms, 0gls, 82pts)

W D.Winnik (29): 6gms, 0gls, 1pts, 60.2cf%, 15:25 (82gms, 0gls, 14pts)
W J.Bailey (25): 5gms, 2gls, 2pts, 54.8cf%, 14:29 (82gms, 33gls, 33pts)

3rd Line

C M.Santorelli (29): 6gms, 1gls, 2pts, 53.8cf%, 12:32 (82gms, 14gls, 27pts)
C B.Nelson (23): 5gms, 4gls, 8pts, ---cf%, 17:17 (82gms, 66gls, 131pts)

W L.Komarov (27): 6gms, 0gls, 4pts, 55.3cf%, 15:07 (82gms, 0gls, 55pts)
W N.Kulemin (28): 5gms, 0gls, 2pts, ---cf%, 13:51 (82gms, 0gls, 33pts)

W D.Clarkson (30): 6gms, 1gls, 2pts, 53.1cf%, 15:11 (82gms, 14gls, 27pts)
W C.Clutterbuck (27): 5gms, 0gls, 1pts, ---cf%, 12:46 (82gms, 0gls, 16pts)

4th Line

C P.Holland (23): 6gms, 0gls, 0pts, ---cf%, 8:20 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)
C C.Cizikas (23): 5gms, 0gls, 0pts, ---cf%, 14:18 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)

W R.Panik (23): 5gms, 0gls, 0pts, ---cf%, 6:17 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)
W M.Martin (25): 5gms, 0gls, 0pts, ---cf%, 10:42 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)

W M.Frattin (26): 2gms, 0gls, 0pts, --cf%, 6:09 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)
W C.McDonald (30): 1gms, 0gls, 0pts, ---cf%, 10:53 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)



1st Pair

D D.Phaneuf (29): 6gms, 0gls, 3pts, 54.3cf%, 23:03 (82gms, 0gls, 41pts)
D J.Boychuk (30): 5gms, 2gls, 6pts, 58.5cf%, 23:09 (82gms, 33gls, 98pts)

D C.Franson (27): 4gms, 1gls, 2pts, ---cf%, 19:42 (82gms, 21gls, 41pts)
D N.Leddy (23): 5gms, 2gls, 3pts, 60.7cf%, 19:56 (82gms, 33gls, 49pts)

2nd Pair

D J.Gardiner (24): 4gms, 0gls, 1pts, 44.7cf%, 21:55 (82gms, 0gls, 21pts)
D T.Hickey (25): 5gms, 1gls, 1pts, 42.4cf%, 19:54 (82gms, 16gls, 16pts)

D R.Polak (28): 6gms, 0gls, 0pts, 50.3cf%, 20:07 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)
D T.Hamonic (24): 5gms, 1gls, 1pts, 40.4cf%, 20:09 (82gms, 16gls, 16pts)

3rd Pair

D M.Rielly (20): 6gs, 1gls, 2pts, 44.9cf%, 19:16 (82gms, 14gls, 27pts)
D L.Visnovsky (38): ----

D S.Robidas (37): 5gms, 0gls, 1pts, 45.5cf%, 17:13 (82gms, 0gls, 16pts)
D B.Strait (26): 5gms, 0gls, 0pts, 46.8cf%, 17:45 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)



Starting Goalie

G J.Bernier (26): 3gms, .906sv%
G J.Halak (29): 4gms, .913sv%

Backup Goalie

G J.Reimer (26): 3gms, .906sv%
G C.Johnson (28): 1gms, .875sv%



Injured/Suspended

W D.Booth (29): -----
W B.Kozun (24): 5gms, 0gls, 1pts, ---cf%, 8:54 (82gms, 0gls, 16pts)

C M.Grabovski (30): 4gms, 2gls, 3pts, ---cf%, 10:55 (82gms, 41gls, 62pts)
W M.Grabner (27): -----

CRL
10-21-2014, 09:06 AM
sure loss for the Leafs

Artnes
10-21-2014, 09:43 AM
They should just forfeit and have a practice scrimmage

MindzEye
10-21-2014, 09:51 AM
They should just forfeit and have a practice scrimmage

Yep...or they could always just kill themselves.

http://www.stepupleader.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/eeyore.jpg

Habsy
10-21-2014, 09:56 AM
Islanders are very beatable, I don't understand the debbie downer stuff.

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 10:10 AM
I think we can win this but I wouldn't be surprised to see Kulemin and Grabbo both score.

Artnes
10-21-2014, 10:16 AM
Is Grabo in? I figured he would be out for a few weeks after the scott hit

Artnes
10-21-2014, 10:18 AM
Islanders are very beatable, I don't understand the debbie downer stuff.

Predict a loss, bitch about Reimer and Bernier and shit on Kessel for not scoring 5 goals. This is the GDT template

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 10:18 AM
Is Grabo in? I figured he would be out for a few weeks after the scott hit

You're right, forgot about that.

leafman101
10-21-2014, 10:19 AM
Too bad Grabo is out. Its fun watching that guy play against his old teams.

It'll be interesting to see how the third line handles Tavares. At least Bozak won't be out there. Just need to keep heading in the right direction and playing more games like they did on Saturday.

Artnes
10-21-2014, 10:23 AM
Game plan should be to have Komarov hit JT every chance he gets. Completely throw him off his game

Pucklosopher
10-21-2014, 10:45 AM
After watching the Wings stifle us for 2 games straight, it'd be nice to see the boys get back to lighting up the scoreboard.

CRL
10-21-2014, 11:15 AM
After watching the Wings stifle us for 2 games straight, it'd be nice to see the boys get back to lighting up the scoreboard.

so you do believe in miracles?

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 12:17 PM
Bernier will start and it looks like Percy will sit according to Twitter.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 12:18 PM
so you do believe in miracles?
No, but he probably believes that the Islanders probably don't have a cohesive team defense quite like the Mike Babcock-coached Red Wings.

trujaysfan
10-21-2014, 12:32 PM
4-3 win: conacher 2 goals 1 assist, kadri 2 goals, Komarov 1 goal and a 4th line goal for someone.

zeke
10-21-2014, 01:07 PM
I'm pretty sure CRL is just being intentionally negative for the reverse psychology.

nobody really thinks the Isles are very good.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 01:15 PM
They're not "very good", but I won't be surprised if they're in the playoffs at the end of the year.

Still, if the Leafs come to play, this is very much a beatable team. Though HL is right that it's probably a given that their ex-Leafs will score on us.

zeke
10-21-2014, 01:18 PM
they're not a team to be scared of, obviously. if we're scared of the Isles we're in deep trouble.

they're a decent team finally, at least.

CRL
10-21-2014, 01:41 PM
I saw them playing couple of this year and they are much better from year before.
Not sure how they will manage without Grabo but we shall see

SENSible
10-21-2014, 01:46 PM
they're not a team to be scared of, obviously. if we're scared of the Isles we're in deep trouble.

they're a decent team finally, at least.

And the Leafs...how would you rate them? Do you see the Leafs as favourites in tonight's game?

MindzEye
10-21-2014, 02:11 PM
And the Leafs...how would you rate them? Do you see the Leafs as favourites in tonight's game?

The problem with the Leafs is...which Leafs?

The fast, creative team that has been creating tons of chances and maintaining solid possession. Or the reactionary, shitty Leafs that can't clear their zone.

We've seen some of the one, and some of the other this season. The former would probably be a favourite in this game, the latter definitely isn't.

zeke
10-21-2014, 02:19 PM
And the Leafs...how would you rate them? Do you see the Leafs as favourites in tonight's game?

the leafs are the bestest team in the league and are favorites in every game they play.

number17
10-21-2014, 02:40 PM
I am not-so-secretly hoping we'll slide towards a 2-8 or 3-7 record so we can get a new coach before it's too late to salvage the season. :)

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 03:00 PM
The Jekyll and Hyde Leafs are interesting because they are clearly trying to utilize more possession, etc...but it has only translated into small pockets of great possession play...makes me wonder if its just growing pains at using new systems, strategies, etc...

leafman101
10-21-2014, 03:07 PM
The Jekyll and Hyde Leafs are interesting because they are clearly trying to utilize more possession, etc...but it has only translated into small pockets of great possession play...makes me wonder if its just growing pains at using new systems, strategies, etc...

There are going to be growing pains. Especially with such a young team. The vet 3rd line, and guys like Polak, PHaneuf and Lupul have had little trouble adapting. But anyone expecting massive turnaround in performance in less than 5 games likely had unreasonable expectations.

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 03:19 PM
I mean they've showed the competency at times to play that way, something we never saw last season...hopefully by season's end they'll be a much more competent possession team.

zeke
10-21-2014, 03:20 PM
for the record, they've been pretty much a dead even 50% possession team in 5v5 Close situations so far.

number17
10-21-2014, 03:24 PM
for the record, they've been pretty much a dead even 50% possession team in 5v5 Close situations so far.As compared to what was it last year? ~ 41%?

50% still isn't great, but it is an improvement at least.

I don't know why you pick 5v5 though. Why not include all ES TOI? The fact we're pathetic 4v4 should be taken into consideration too.

zeke
10-21-2014, 03:26 PM
don't they think they have an ES total breakdown on any sites.

mostly because 5v5 is a totally different situation than 4v4. but also because 4v4 makes up such a tiny part of total icetime in the end that it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 03:27 PM
It's possible they could be developing into very strong play as the new system takes hold. I'm just not confident in Carlyle getting this to work with his ways with ice time deployment, motivation of his players, in-game non-adjustments and whippingboy practices with good young skilled players.

We shall see, but I'm leaning on them playing poorly under him and so until he's replaced.

zeke
10-21-2014, 03:55 PM
on the flip side, if you look at the leafs using Score-adjusted 5v5, they're only at 46%. not as good, but still better than last year's 42%.

Using score-adjusted gives you a bigger sample to work with, by adjusting for instead of just ignoring non-close situations.

And that score-adjusted number includes the fact that the leafs have completely capitulated in the PIT and first DET game after going down a few goals. The last halves of those two games we got absolutely crushed. We just completely gave up in both.

MindzEye
10-21-2014, 04:53 PM
on the flip side, if you look at the leafs using Score-adjusted 5v5, they're only at 46%. not as good, but still better than last year's 42%.

Using score-adjusted gives you a bigger sample to work with, by adjusting for instead of just ignoring non-close situations.

And that score-adjusted number includes the fact that the leafs have completely capitulated in the PIT and first DET game after going down a few goals. The last halves of those two games we got absolutely crushed. We just completely gave up in both.

Have you ever come across the justification for using close instead of CF% or something else all inclusive? I've heard the argument, but 1) it seems a bit silly to me & 2)I've never seen good data backing it up.

zeke
10-21-2014, 05:01 PM
Have you ever come across the justification for using close instead of CF% or something else all inclusive? I've heard the argument, but 1) it seems a bit silly to me & 2)I've never seen good data backing it up.

yeah there's been plenty of stuff written on why close is the best, which is usually under the umbrella of "score effects".

And it follows along with logic, too - teams adjust their strategy depending on the score. Teams will sit on leads, or even just plain let up with big ones, while teams a few goals down might just start riskng everything and going all out attack, or might just capitulate and give up. The Close numbers have for the most part been better predictors than the overall numbers.

the downside is the that you're cutting off a good chunk of your sample size when you do it and that those non-close situations probably do tell you something about the teams too.

So theyve started using score adjusted numbers that let you use all the data points without ignoring score effects. Of course, I'm not sure that they're doing quite the RIGHT adjustments yet, but the early returns seem to be sensible. They seem to make better predictions so far.....from what I know about them, which isn't a whole lot. its hard to find much info on the score adjusted numbers as of yet.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 05:07 PM
Percy sits again? So Franson can keep passing the puck to the other team?

Do we want to lose?

SundinsTooth
10-21-2014, 05:09 PM
Hey what do you expect around this team?

zeke
10-21-2014, 05:10 PM
Funnily enough, for once the advanced stats actually support randy's decision on the defensemen.

5v5 CF%

Phaneuf 52.6
Franson 49.6
Gardiner 49.1
Polak 47.0
Rielly 46.6
Robidas 44.2
Percy 42.5

thought percy looks worse due to tough zone starts.....but then again, even when you adjust for that, he doesn't look great:

ZoneStart-Adjusts 5v5 CF%:

Phaneuf 54.3
Polak 50.3
Robidas 45.5
Percy 45.2
Rielly 44.9
Gardiner 44.7

(Franson doesn't have enough minutes to come up on this list yet).


and there's the fact that the one game Stuart sat out was by far our best possesion game of the year.


For once, one of Randy's decisions is actually supported by the advanced stats.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 05:14 PM
we're a lundqvist meltdown away from having 1 win on the year.

Play ****ing Percy.

zeke
10-21-2014, 05:16 PM
lundqvist only melted down after we pumped 4 sweet and well earned goals past him.

MindzEye
10-21-2014, 05:31 PM
yeah there's been plenty of stuff written on why close is the best, which is usually under the umbrella of "score effects".

And it follows along with logic, too - teams adjust their strategy depending on the score. Teams will sit on leads, or even just plain let up with big ones, while teams a few goals down might just start riskng everything and going all out attack, or might just capitulate and give up. The Close numbers have for the most part been better predictors than the overall numbers.

the downside is the that you're cutting off a good chunk of your sample size when you do it and that those non-close situations probably do tell you something about the teams too.

So theyve started using score adjusted numbers that let you use all the data points without ignoring score effects. Of course, I'm not sure that they're doing quite the RIGHT adjustments yet, but the early returns seem to be sensible. They seem to make better predictions so far.....from what I know about them, which isn't a whole lot. its hard to find much info on the score adjusted numbers as of yet.

:cheers2:

JackBurton
10-21-2014, 06:06 PM
Bernier will start and it looks like Percy will sit according to Twitter.

What a ****ing idiot we have as a coach.

Habsy
10-21-2014, 06:09 PM
I am not-so-secretly hoping we'll slide towards a 2-8 or 3-7 record so we can get a new coach before it's too late to salvage the season. :)

I'm convinced you're stuck with Carlyle and it is all part of the plan to get McDavid or Eichel. There is no way on Earth Shanahan doesn't see how bad Carlyle is. Couple that with his handcuffing Nonis from firing Carlyle and break out your tinfoil hat.

The Leafs will never be as bad as Edmonton, Carolina or Buffalo but if they manage another top 5 pick they can move up to get either player. McDavid in Toronto would make me puke and zeke cream.

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 06:14 PM
I'm convinced you're stuck with Carlyle and it is all part of the plan to get McDavid or Eichel. There is no way on Earth Shanahan doesn't see how bad Carlyle is. Couple that with his handcuffing Nonis from firing Carlyle and break out your tinfoil hat.

The Leafs will never be as bad as Edmonton, Carolina or Buffalo but if they manage another top 5 pick they can move up to get either player. McDavid in Toronto would make me puke and zeke cream.

I think you're right that Shanahan probably already sees Carlyle's not the guy going forward but I think if the "plan" is to get McDavid or Eichel, they didn't do a good enough job on execution - this team is probably too good to be in reach of those guys and I'm not sure it'll be as easy to move up as you're suggesting. Though with Edmonton I guess there's a chance.

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 06:16 PM
What a ****ing idiot we have as a coach.

Those stats zeke posted suggest not.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-21-2014, 06:19 PM
5-2 Islanders

worm
10-21-2014, 06:19 PM
I think you're right that Shanahan probably already sees Carlyle's not the guy going forward but I think if the "plan" is to get McDavid or Eichel, they didn't do a good enough job on execution - this team is probably too good to be in reach of those guys and I'm not sure it'll be as easy to move up as you're suggesting. Though with Edmonton I guess there's a chance.

Ya. Nobody is trading McDavid.

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 06:23 PM
Funnily enough, for once the advanced stats actually support randy's decision on the defensemen.

5v5 CF%

Phaneuf 52.6
Franson 49.6
Gardiner 49.1
Polak 47.0
Rielly 46.6
Robidas 44.2
Percy 42.5


All the advanced stats say Franson's great and he usually is, IMO, for about 59 minutes/night. Then he'll **** shit up to the point even you're cursing him. Jekyl and Hyde. So frustrating.

JackBurton
10-21-2014, 06:24 PM
Yeah, I have trouble reading into advanced stats that much, given what I've seen.

I also think Randy simply sits the young guys. He doesn't go by anything else.

JackBurton
10-21-2014, 06:25 PM
Ya. Nobody is trading McDavid.

Nope. It's a marketing dream. No trade can replace that.

Bleedsblue&white
10-21-2014, 06:28 PM
I'm convinced you're stuck with Carlyle and it is all part of the plan to get McDavid or Eichel.

Just as important, I believe Shanahan knows who he wants to coach, just has to wait. I'm sure waiting is easier with such a meaty draft coming up...

JackBurton
10-21-2014, 06:31 PM
Carlyle is keeping Babcock's seat warm.

The problem is, I think we are just too talented to get a top 3 pick unless there's a very lucky lottery win.

rated
10-21-2014, 06:32 PM
Predict a loss, bitch about Reimer and Bernier and shit on Kessel for not scoring 5 goals. This is the GDT template

You forgot to blame it all on Caryle. <-- Making a thread about that topic the second the game is over is the best way to go about this. (but only if they lose)

Bleedsblue&white
10-21-2014, 06:32 PM
All the advanced stats say Franson's great and he usually is, IMO, for about 59 minutes/night. Then he'll **** shit up to the point even you're cursing him. Jekyl and Hyde. So frustrating.
There's a stat we need; measuring mistake free hockey against if (and/or when) you screw up and does it end up in a goal against?

JackBurton
10-21-2014, 06:33 PM
Franson has made just awful decisions this season. And I hate Dion's play the last 40 games.

CRL
10-21-2014, 06:35 PM
welcome to reality guys

Pronger84
10-21-2014, 06:35 PM
Fransons always lacked hockey iq and I do want him traded but he's been solid the past 3-4 games, I hope he keeps it up so he can be dealt for a nice package at the deadline.

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 06:40 PM
Are we watching a hockey game or attending a funeral? Jesus Christ...

Pronger84
10-21-2014, 06:44 PM
Based on people's reactions I'd say watching a funeral.

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 06:52 PM
I actually think considering how this team's performed over the past decade or so, that this board is more positive than you'd expect (and certainly more positive than other boards).

CRL
10-21-2014, 07:41 PM
jonasTSN1050: Looks like the Leafs will go with seven D tonight. Stuart Percy gets back in.
oh Randy...Randy... never learn....

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 07:58 PM
Already?

CRL
10-21-2014, 07:59 PM
good start I guess

leaffan2005
10-21-2014, 07:59 PM
Oh look, we are getting outplayed again.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 08:07 PM
lucky bounce but I'll take it.

CRL
10-21-2014, 08:17 PM
good shit from Dion

leaffan2005
10-21-2014, 08:22 PM
Shitty call = automatic goal.

SundinsTooth
10-21-2014, 08:23 PM
More penalty killing success.

SundinsTooth
10-21-2014, 08:24 PM
Shitty call = automatic goal.

yep

zeke
10-21-2014, 08:24 PM
crazy how fragile this team is.

we give up a stoppable goal and suddenly we're getting dominated all over the place...and then we get a lucky bounce and a goal and suddenly we're dominating.

but then the penalties get us. do we start getting dominated again now?

bernier not sharp on either goal so far.

zeke
10-21-2014, 08:25 PM
nice response shift from the third line.

SundinsTooth
10-21-2014, 08:25 PM
Why does Franson constantly miss simple passes from his D partner?

leaffan2005
10-21-2014, 08:26 PM
Literally the dumbest team I have ever watched lace 'em up. Literally.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 08:26 PM
Goddammit Lupul, you lazy *******.

SundinsTooth
10-21-2014, 08:27 PM
Yay Lupul you dumbass.

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 08:27 PM
I'm okay trading Lupul for nothing. Selfish douchebag.

leaffan2005
10-21-2014, 08:28 PM
Sorry, did the Islanders player just knock Bernier on his ass without a penalty?

zeke
10-21-2014, 08:29 PM
yup.

leaffan2005
10-21-2014, 08:29 PM
Yup Lupul, your issue is the energy from the ACC crowd!

ForeverTML
10-21-2014, 08:29 PM
utter shit.

zeke
10-21-2014, 08:30 PM
come on tie it before the period ends.

ForeverTML
10-21-2014, 08:30 PM
leaf players falling down all over the place.

SundinsTooth
10-21-2014, 08:31 PM
Franson is just a wreck out there...it's pretty comical.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 08:31 PM
Literally the dumbest team I have ever watched lace 'em up. Literally.

Buncha 25 watt bulbs.

ForeverTML
10-21-2014, 08:32 PM
We're getting that dumbfounded look by carlyle again....

SundinsTooth
10-21-2014, 08:32 PM
There is something very wrong with that first line.

MindzEye
10-21-2014, 08:35 PM
We're getting that dumbfounded look by carlyle again....

Still at work....is it this look

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/447880416624508930/kfdfASVV.jpeg

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 08:37 PM
Apparently Hunter is big on hockey IQ ... expect big turnover in personnel!

ForeverTML
10-21-2014, 08:37 PM
Yep, thats the look.

Very punchable.

http://www.reddit.com/r/punchablefaces/

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nhl/blog/Randy_Carlyle.jpg

zeke
10-21-2014, 08:42 PM
phaneuf 7:16 (21:48)
franson 6:22 (19:06)

polak 8:07 (24:21)
percy 5:04 (15:12)

robidas 5:47 (17:21)
rielly 4:03 (12:09)
gardiner 3:36 (10:48)

zeke
10-21-2014, 08:43 PM
There is something very wrong with that first line.

they were pretty awesome that period actually.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 08:44 PM
So, I missed the start of the game ... did he seriously go without a 4th line in a back-to-back game?

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 08:48 PM
Is the federal government actually using tax dollars to run anti-marijuana ads during Leaf games?

Oh, and I too would also like to punch Randy in the face. Not even 10 games in, and we've already completely given up on playing four lines, and our forwards are back to paying 9-on-12 every night. Not to mention the exact same embarrassing team defense. Unless the goal is to tank for McDavid, could we please shit-can this clown now?

zeke
10-21-2014, 08:52 PM
bozak 7:20 (22:00)
kessel 7:08 (21:24)
vanryk 9:18 (27:54)

kadri 4:06 (12:18)
lupul 5:00 (15:00)
winnik 6:01 (18:03)

santo 3:49 (11:27)
komo 4:52 (14:36)
clarkson 3:40 (11:00)

holland 3:29 (10:27)
panik 0:57 (2:51)




top line should have plenty of juice left tommorrow.

Pronger84
10-21-2014, 08:56 PM
Man I love polak, that's a real,leader right there

Hoss
10-21-2014, 08:57 PM
This first year ref is a flucking joke. Clutterbuck has drawn two penalties just being an a hole, and the ref just keeps giving it to them .

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:03 PM
kessel is flying tonight. big goal.

underrated play by dion there to stick with tavares right across the ice and keep him to a bad angle shot.

Killer93
10-21-2014, 09:04 PM
Carlyle is a ****ing joke; lets role three lines on the front end of a back to back...until he learns to use a 4th line were ****ed

Bleedsblue&white
10-21-2014, 09:04 PM
Is the federal government actually using tax dollars to run anti-marijuana ads during Leaf games?



Sometimes I need a joint, a beer and a shot.

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:04 PM
man you guys have to relax. what is wrong with you people?

Bleedsblue&white
10-21-2014, 09:06 PM
Kessel tried that shot about three times, good for him.

Killer93
10-21-2014, 09:07 PM
Polak!!!

axlsalinger
10-21-2014, 09:07 PM
Polak wit da SNIPE.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 09:08 PM
Haha, Roman "The sniper" Polak.

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:08 PM
what an awesome shift for polak. in the neutral zone and offensive zone. that goal was all him.

hilarious.

Bleedsblue&white
10-21-2014, 09:08 PM
Woohoo!

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 09:08 PM
Halak is pretty weak tonight. I'll take it.

Gotta like the Santorelli signing.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 09:09 PM
what an awesome shift for polak. in the neutral zone and offensive zone. that goal was all him.

hilarious.

Willful.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 09:10 PM
Nice work Phil.

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:10 PM
hah kessel made boychuk look like a timbit there. so good.

da_next_kid
10-21-2014, 09:11 PM
There is only one Phil Kessel.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 09:11 PM
what an awesome shift for polak. in the neutral zone and offensive zone. that goal was all him.

hilarious.
Yep. He carried the puck in, he dug it out of the corner and then finished off the play with a snipe in the slot.

Roman ****ing Polak.

Killer93
10-21-2014, 09:12 PM
Halak is pretty weak tonight. I'll take it.

Gotta like the Santorelli signing.

Wonder how Bolland is doing as Santorelli was his replacement

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:13 PM
a two goal lead would be a refreshing change.

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:14 PM
top line is dancing.

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:16 PM
hah.

wendel!!!!

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 09:16 PM
Halak can't be in much longer.

Good to see Clarkson rewarded for his strong play of late.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 09:16 PM
First Roman Polak, now David Clarkson.

The Leafs' top offensive weapons are really humming tonight!

Bleedsblue&white
10-21-2014, 09:17 PM
I like this Clarkson fellow, maybe we can lock him up long term?

axlsalinger
10-21-2014, 09:18 PM
I have no idea what the hell happened last year, but this is what David Clarkson does.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 09:18 PM
Halak is garbage. Clarkson lol

IrishWolfman
10-21-2014, 09:18 PM
Now that he isn't trying to punch people, David Clarkson looks like a hockey player again.

He's not allowed to take that f***ing cage off.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 09:19 PM
He has to play the rest of his contract wearing a Lecter mask.

Leafyblue
10-21-2014, 09:19 PM
McDavid Clarkson ?

axlsalinger
10-21-2014, 09:21 PM
Connor McClarkson.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 09:21 PM
LOL, nice.

axlsalinger
10-21-2014, 09:21 PM
Thriller!

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 09:21 PM
Jesus, was that a pylon Kessel flew by there for that goal? The Isles looked like they were standing still next to Phil.

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 09:22 PM
Really quite happy for Clarkson. I can honestly say I did not think he was capable of how he's played thus far. Pleasant surprise.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 09:23 PM
SNIPE

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 09:25 PM
The Islanders getting booed off the ice to end the period.

Music to my ears.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 09:25 PM
Winnik has been real good tonight.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 09:25 PM
Leafs were jonesing for some goals after that Detroit series. 4 goal 2nd ... can spread the ice time and save the legs for tomorrow.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 09:28 PM
Really quite happy for Clarkson. I can honestly say I did not think he was capable of how he's played thus far. Pleasant surprise.
I think I actually agree with what IW and the guys on the broadcast were saying. With that face shield on, he hasn't had the option to run around like an idiot looking for fights. He's had no choice but to just focus on playing hockey.

His linemates are huge too. Instead of sticking him on to a line with a couple of highly skilled, rushing players like Lupul and Kadri, he's with a couple of guys that play his game but also bring some skill. Komarov is also the perfect example to him of how to play hard and throw your body around, while also being effective and not take penalties. And Santorelli has been a great addition. He does everything we wished Jay McSelke was able to do.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 09:30 PM
The Islanders getting booed off the ice to end the period.

Music to my ears.

Wonder how Mirtle is feeling about his puff piece he posted earlier today.

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:32 PM
leafs at 55.6% corsi close in this one, and it likely won't change with a three goal lead.

that should get us comfortably over 50% for the year, which is crazy compared to last year.

and this comes against an isles team that i think was top 5 in corsi coming into tonight.

Jeremy
10-21-2014, 09:33 PM
Komarov playing at an almost 60 pt pace. Gotta love it.

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:34 PM
yeah i was just going to mention leo's scoring. not bad.

Volcanologist
10-21-2014, 09:38 PM
not bad?

it's fantastic. this guy had hands of stone last time he was here.

Hoss
10-21-2014, 09:39 PM
Ha ha the score has the Detroit goal as zetterberg goal with an assist to zetterberg

zeke
10-21-2014, 09:47 PM
wake up boys.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 10:00 PM
Winnik with a great penalty draw there.

Hoss
10-21-2014, 10:05 PM
Wow they are playing like the game is over already. Shitty passes guys skating away from the puck. Ffs

Bleedsblue&white
10-21-2014, 10:06 PM
Bernier's been great, good, and lucky tonight.

Hoss
10-21-2014, 10:09 PM
Kadri has been soft. Give aways losing puck battles. Yuck

Hoss
10-21-2014, 10:15 PM
Wow never realized what a bitch clutterbuck is.

hockeylover
10-21-2014, 10:21 PM
What's going on? My icetracker stopped.

da_next_kid
10-21-2014, 10:23 PM
We won 5-2. Bernier kept us in the 3rd until we got ours legs going. Should start tomorrow.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 10:24 PM
Good thing Bernier was sharp in the third or that could have been a bit too interesting.

Pretty good game from the Leafs, but nothing great. Hopefully, Reimer does his magic against the little doggies tomorrow.

zeke
10-21-2014, 10:27 PM
now that third is why they use 5v5 CLOSE.

big win to even up the record.

win tommorrow and we're back at a playoff pace (92pts).....but this time with good corsi.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 10:37 PM
Anyone concerned about Kadri's play since the 4 or 5 game mark? Ever since he got benched in that first Detroit game, he's looked pretty bad.

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 10:37 PM
What's going on? My icetracker stopped.

Bernier was Bernier...

Killer93
10-21-2014, 10:38 PM
Anyone concerned about Kadri's play since the 4 or 5 game mark? Ever since he got benched in that first Detroit game, he's looked pretty bad.

Mini slump; not concerned yet

Pronger84
10-21-2014, 10:38 PM
I'm glad the leafs won but it was typical with relying heavily on bernier and the 1st line to carry us through. Thay 2nd line needs to show up in terms of effort, puck possession and goals.. I am not liking what I am seeing from them so far, they need to pick it up.

Loved what I saw from franson, kept it simple and blocked a lot of islanders players with his body, epic hit he laid on Tavares too.

Pronger84
10-21-2014, 10:39 PM
Mini slump; not concerned yet

Enough with the excuses, kadri hasn't been up to snuff yet and it's unacceptable epically given he wants to be a bonifed top 6 centre.

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 10:41 PM
Anyone concerned about Kadri's play since the 4 or 5 game mark? Ever since he got benched in that first Detroit game, he's looked pretty bad.

I am a little, especially when he says he wants to be in the same breathe as Tavares. Komarov has 5 assists, Kadri 0.

Metalleaf
10-21-2014, 10:44 PM
I'm glad the leafs won but it was typical with relying heavily on bernier and the 1st line to carry us through. Thay 2nd line needs to show up in terms of effort, puck possession and goals.. I am not liking what I am seeing from them so far, they need to pick it up.

Loved what I saw from franson, kept it simple and blocked a lot of islanders players with his body, epic hit he laid on Tavares too.

Bernier needed to be sharp in the 3rd...shots were 23-19 Leafs through 2...Tonight the 3rd line carried us, Polak, Santorelli, Clarkson, Komarov all had big games.

Pronger84
10-21-2014, 10:48 PM
Yea, he stoned them several times, that was a game changing stick save he made. Too bad that Clarkson goal didn't count tho, he deserved that goal.

BeLeafer
10-21-2014, 11:24 PM
I am a little, especially when he says he wants to be in the same breathe as Tavares. Komarov has 5 assists, Kadri 0.

I'm beginning to tire a bit of his yapping to the media and not doing shit on the ice. He looked great in the first 4-5 games and has been at best invisible since. He was going to work on consistency this season. Not a great start.

Of course, I think he and Carlyle have horrid chemistry and that this guy more than any other would benefit greatly from a coaching change. It's encouraging that we now have his former junior GM in the senior ranks. Might know the solution.

Wayward DP
10-21-2014, 11:31 PM
Pretty good game all around. Bernier was soft on the first goal, but settled down after that, and made some big saves in the third. The third line continues to be awesome, and Clarkson is starting to earn at least a large portion of his salary, really pleased with his play thus far.

Winnik and Komarov are huge additions to the PK, just really smart players, both with reasonable puck skills, both can throw the body. Really love them both, and Santo as mentioned too is really solid.

4th line had a better game tonight I thought, although Panik still looks pretty poopy generally. Franson's gonna Franson, but Robidas looked solid and I'm really liking what Polak brings to the table.

Wilted a little bit to start the third but recovered nicely to close it out. First line had one of their better games too, and good stuff in the faceoff circle. Not sure who was charged with shutting down Tavares but barely noticed him out there so another solid showing by I'm guessing Phaneuf.

The panic in the GDT in the first period though... just wow, y'all gotta relax a bit.

LeafGm
10-21-2014, 11:40 PM
Meh, my complaints from the first period still stand. I'm pretty sick of Carlyle's three line routine.

It was nice that he at least got Holland up in to the 10 minute range tonight, even if a lot of that came after the game was out of reach. But he needs to find two other forwards for his fourth line (not named Orr or McLaren) that he's willing to trust with 10 minutes of ice-time, because playing 9-12 every night will catch up to us eventually.

Wayward DP
10-22-2014, 12:02 AM
Are you really upset that Percy was in the lineup over Frattin/Ashton? It's not like the fourth line had been playing particularly well, and the ice time was pretty well distributed throughout the lineup tonight regardless.

BeLeafer
10-22-2014, 12:04 AM
If you ask me, Randy is trying to make a stupid point about losing his useless goons by not giving the fourth liners much ice time and not even icing a fourth line today. Can this ****er, please.

Wayward DP
10-22-2014, 12:16 AM
If you ask me, Randy is trying to make a stupid point about losing his useless goons by not giving the fourth liners much ice time and not even icing a fourth line today. Can this ****er, please.

I'm pretty sure today was the best possession numbers our fourth line has put up all season. Holland and Panik also got way more minutes than they had been receiving before. Not sure what everyone is up in arms about.

BeLeafer
10-22-2014, 12:36 AM
I'm pretty sure today was the best possession numbers our fourth line has put up all season. Holland and Panik also got way more minutes than they had been receiving before. Not sure what everyone is up in arms about.

Our 'fourth line' today was based on double shifting a top six forward.

Randy is clearly not making use of his fourth line. He's been giving these guys he was handed for fourth line duty paltry minutes. If they didn't go into the third with a 3 goal lead, you can be sure Holland and Panik would have seen almost no ice time. They got a single shift in the first, if I'm not mistaken. He has been giving Holland ice time lately, but mostly as punishment of Kadri.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 12:40 AM
Holland also kills penalties.

Wayward DP
10-22-2014, 01:08 AM
Our 'fourth line' today was based on double shifting a top six forward.

Randy is clearly not making use of his fourth line. He's been giving these guys he was handed for fourth line duty paltry minutes. If they didn't go into the third with a 3 goal lead, you can be sure Holland and Panik would have seen almost no ice time. They got a single shift in the first, if I'm not mistaken. He has been giving Holland ice time lately, but mostly as punishment of Kadri.

Clarkson and Winnik also took shifts with the fourth line.

When Randy did use the fourth line earlier in the season they were godawful, so he stopped using them. Tonight, the fourth line (Panik-Hollan-Lupul/Clarkson/Winnik/Kessel) were a useful hockey line, and they played close to typical fourth line minutes. It was a net positive contribution to the team, a stark contrast to the previous games (especially Pittsburgh) where they were badly outplayed.

I still haven't seen anyone explain why Frattin or Ashton should have been in the lineup over Percy.

zeke
10-22-2014, 01:14 AM
i agree that holland and panik both had good games today for the first time this year.

and if they get more ice time while the other wings all get a few extra shifts a game on their wing, it could be workable.

i don't really like the 7d setup, though. that's a bigger worry for me in this setup. at the same time, i'm stumped at which d i'd pull out of the lineup.

BeLeafer
10-22-2014, 01:16 AM
Clarkson and Winnik also took shifts with the fourth line.
He was double shifting Lupul until the game was well in hand.


When Randy did use the fourth line earlier in the season they were godawful, so he stopped using them. Tonight, the fourth line (Panik-Hollan-Lupul/Clarkson/Winnik/Kessel) were a useful hockey line, and they played close to typical fourth line minutes. It was a net positive contribution to the team, a stark contrast to the previous games (especially Pittsburgh) where they were badly outplayed.

I still haven't seen anyone explain why Frattin or Ashton should have been in the lineup over Percy.

He played them for 2 games and then promptly reverted to his 3-9 minute usage and now, not even icing a full fourth line. If poor play was to determine usage, Bosak and JVR would be riding pine.

zeke
10-22-2014, 01:16 AM
and for the record, both the top two lines have fewer minutes than they did last year, thanks to the third line being great and the fourth line still playing more than they did last year.

blacksheep
10-22-2014, 03:41 AM
If you ask me, Randy is trying to make a stupid point about losing his useless goons by not giving the fourth liners much ice time and not even icing a fourth line today. Can this ****er, please.

I don't know what point he is trying to prove. I just know that one win against a team that's a shoe-in win for almost anybody doesn't suddenly make Carlyle a worthwhile coach for this organization.
Hunter, please. Or better yet, Babcock.

Leafin'
10-22-2014, 03:57 AM
Kessel with the beauty Mike Gartner-esque goal tonight.

leafman101
10-22-2014, 10:06 AM
A lot of complaining for a 5-2 win. Whats the point in even following them if you can't enjoy it?

There wasn't much to not like about last night. They still need to start finding ways to win without relying on Kessel though.

The Leafs top line ES minutes have been cut significantly so far this year (by 1:30-2 mins). Carlyle is balancing the ice time among the forward units. The 4th line played 5 mins a game ES last year. This year Holland, Panik and Kozun are all over 6 mins ES, with Holland and Kozun over 7. Kessel, Bozak and JVR ES ice time is down ~2 mins a game so far this year. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Take even more ice time away from our best players and give it to our worst players? Its a weird point to harp on.

You can't have an unplayable 4th line that only sees 2-3 minutes a game sometimes. But 6-8 ES minutes from a 4th line is perfectly fine. You don't want to play your 4th line 12 minutes a game. That just takes Kessel off the ice more. Right now Kessel is 20th in the league in ES mins per game. Nothing wrong with that. For the record last year he was first (Bozak was 3rd just behind Crosby compared to 61st so far this year).

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:14 AM
well, chi, ana, la, etc. all played their fourth lines 10-12mpg last year.

though to be fair, to match their line usage we'd be cutting minutes more from our third line than our first line.

leafman101
10-22-2014, 10:18 AM
well, chi, ana, la, etc. all played their fourth lines 10-12mpg last year.

though to be fair, to match their line usage we'd be cutting minutes more from our third line than our first line.

Not ES though.

They played their 4th lines 7-10 mins ES.

Right now the Leafs are using theirs 6-8.

But that is just ignoring the problem anyway. The issue was the Leafs relying on the first line too much though. And they have cut those minutes back significantly so far this year. Those minutes have been spread out among the 2nd and 4th lines. Honestly I prefer that over giving all those minutes to Holland and Panik. Playing Lupul and Kadri more is perfectly fine with me.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:26 AM
thought holland looked good last night with a little skill on his wing.

LeafGm
10-22-2014, 10:50 AM
Are you really upset that Percy was in the lineup over Frattin/Ashton? It's not like the fourth line had been playing particularly well, and the ice time was pretty well distributed throughout the lineup tonight regardless.
It's great having Percy in the lineup, but not at the expense of actually being able to ice a complete complement of forwards. I mean, do you think that the Leafs are the only team in the league that have a tough decision to make when it comes to who's going to dress and who's going to sit out of their defensive group? Yet they're the only team in the league that seems to think that dressing 7 defensemen and 11 forwards is a legitimate strategy to be employed in a situation other than absolute necessity.

As for the fourth line not playing particularly well, I'm not sure how well equipped we are to judge with them getting 3-5 minutes of ice time for most of the season, but if they're not playing well, then change the forwards. I agree Frattin shouldn't be dressed---he was complete junk in training camp, and he's been even more useless in the regular season. He never should have made the team, and he should have been waived yesterday.

Ashton I actually wouldn't mind seeing get a chance. He brings some size on the wing and he's been dynamite at the AHL level. It'd be nice to see what he's capable of doing at the NHL level when he's getting something resembling a regular shift. And if you give him and Panik 10 minutes of ice-time for a few games, and they're shit...well then, waive them, and give another one of the Toronto Marlies a shot. You don't just give up entirely on icing a fourth line.



If you ask me, Randy is trying to make a stupid point about losing his useless goons by not giving the fourth liners much ice time and not even icing a fourth line today. Can this ****er, please.
Agreed 100%. With the way he was talking in training camp, I'm pretty confident that Randy was still planning to keep at least one of his goons on the roster, and probably in the lineup as well. But somebody overruled him, and now like a petulant baby, he's doing his best to make sure that the newly constructed 4th line won't get a chance to work.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 11:23 AM
A lot of complaining for a 5-2 win. Whats the point in even following them if you can't enjoy it?



You have the benefit of hindsight...that stuff was posted live. I think the last 40 years of hockey gives Leaf fans a bit of leeway to be hyper-critical at times.

LeafOfFaith
10-22-2014, 01:50 PM
Not sure why Broll isn't on this team on the 4th line. Guy can skate, hit, play, and fight. I've liked him every time I've seen him play.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Broll-Holland-Panik 4th line for a few games to see what they can do together, while playing more than the 4 minutes or so we sometimes see the 4th line get.

That Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson line is amazing. Best third line in the league, and Komarov's hitting is the best.

The Lupul-Kadri-Winnik line sucks though. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I don't think Kadri is playing particularly well, and I don't think Winnik has the offensive prowess to run with those two. Maybe he's holding them back. I know I'd rather see Panik off the team and Winnik on the 4th line and PKing if we can find ourselves a legit second line to round out that line with Kadri and Lupes.

Kessel and JVR were on fire last night.

LeafOfFaith
10-22-2014, 01:54 PM
Also, Carlyle sucks. It's so obvious we win in spite of ourselves so far this year. If Bernier stands on his head and the first line is firing, nobody is beating us.

But big ****ing deal. What about when those aren't going for us?

The ****ing New York Islanders were playing an organized and dangerous game for much of the early part of the night, while we were doing our usual running around aimless routine, but Bernier was saving us until Kessel was able to start picking corners.

We can't win this way, and it's clear the coach is the issue. We've turned over all other members of the coaching staff. We've turned over half the team in the bottom 6 and bottom pairs. And yet we still play the exact same way and have the exact same problems. Is it so tough for them to see that fat **** Carlyle is what is holding us back??

zeke
10-22-2014, 01:54 PM
I'd say the second line was our best line for the first 5gms.

zeke
10-22-2014, 02:01 PM
Also, Carlyle sucks. It's so obvious we win in spite of ourselves so far this year. If Bernier stands on his head and the first line is firing, nobody is beating us.

But big ****ing deal. What about when those aren't going for us?

The ****ing New York Islanders were playing an organized and dangerous game for much of the early part of the night, while we were doing our usual running around aimless routine, but Bernier was saving us until Kessel was able to start picking corners.

We can't win this way, and it's clear the coach is the issue. We've turned over all other members of the coaching staff. We've turned over half the team in the bottom 6 and bottom pairs. And yet we still play the exact same way and have the exact same problems. Is it so tough for them to see that fat **** Carlyle is what is holding us back??

Leafs won the possession battle handily through the first 2 periods before it turned into a blowout. If it wasn't for some stupid penalties in the first, we probably would have buried them earlier. Bernier also let in yet another stinker to open the game and put us behind the eight ball right off the bat.

The Leafs' possession has improved by a massive amount already this year. Our Corsi Close last year was an abysmal 42%, this year its all the way up to a league average 51%. That's pretty encouraging.

Not only have all of our wins been convincing wins, but two of our losses have been pretty unfortunate, both the opening night loss to MTL and the OT loss to detroit.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 02:04 PM
We've had two bad losses and 5 competitive games resulting in 3 wins and an OT point.

LeafOfFaith
10-22-2014, 02:04 PM
I'd say the second line was our best line for the first 5gms.

Aside from the occasional flash that Lupul will show by keeping possession for 20 seconds, or Kadri with some dangles, they haven't done anything of substance, as far as I've seen. Winnik is just no good in that spot. He can clog up the boards here and there, maybe make a nice rush once in a while, but the guy is not a top six player, and it's hurting us because it seems to be hurting Kadri and Lupul. They need a strong guy with hands to crash the net on that line. Basically another JVR.

I'd have been happier seeing Nylander in that spot at least, and go for the speed and dangles throughout that line.

We can't trade Franson fast enough. He clearly deserves to sit - I mean, what is this guy good for when he's not even putting up points - but it's obvious they're keeping him on the ice to showcase him, get someone interested, and get him out of here. I wonder if we can somehow pry a young forward loose from someone in need of a dman by flipping him.

leafman101
10-22-2014, 02:07 PM
The second line hasn't been producing, but they've been our best line from game one. They have been the most dominant on the puck, and likely have created the most scoring chances.

And I am fine with that. The goals will come from guys like Kadri and Lupul.

LeafOfFaith
10-22-2014, 02:08 PM
Leafs won the possession battle handily through the first 2 periods before it turned into a blowout. If it wasn't for some stupid penalties in the first, we probably would have buried them earlier. Bernier also let in yet another stinker to open the game and put us behind the eight ball right off the bat.

The Leafs' possession has improved by a massive amount already this year. Our Corsi Close last year was an abysmal 42%, this year its all the way up to a league average 51%. That's pretty encouraging.

Not only have all of our wins been convincing wins, but two of our losses have been pretty unfortunate, both the opening night loss to MTL and the OT loss to detroit.

You can cherry pick like that, but you would also have to admit that two of the losses saw Pittsburgh and Detroit mop the floor with us.

And even in the wins, there are prolonged or sporadic stretches where we are just totally dominated. Last night, NYI was all over us for the first 20 to 30 minutes. If they didn't keep missing the net or Bernier didn't keep coming up with the saves, it could've easily been 4-0 or 5-0 after the first.

We just can't play this disorganized, everyone do what you want kind of style. How often are guys just left wide, wide open in front of our net? It's absurd how frequently that happens. And yet we don't see the same privileges granted to our guys. I don't know about you all, but I'm pretty disappointed in the way we play this year. It looks just like last year, and when we win, we win with firepower from a few guys and goaltending. That's our formula. Neutralize the top line, and put a few past the goalie, and we're toast generally.

LeafOfFaith
10-22-2014, 02:10 PM
The second line hasn't been producing, but they've been our best line from game one. They have been the most dominant on the puck, and likely have created the most scoring chances.

And I am fine with that. The goals will come from guys like Kadri and Lupul.

I don't know. I'm not encouraged so far.

A general comment I have is that the compete level in the NHL this season looks unprecedented. I've never seen players playing as hard. It looks like every shift is a monumental struggle for time and space, if you can even get your hands on the puck.

I don't think a line with two stars and one plug can cut it for an offensive line. You need three fully able offensive players to have it work.

Artnes
10-22-2014, 02:15 PM
Winnik has been great on that line. I don't think anyone can complain about his play

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 02:17 PM
Nope he's a bit rough but hasn't looked out of place.

leafman101
10-22-2014, 02:18 PM
Winnik isn't ideal there, but he's been good. He didn't start on that line. He earned that opportunity.

Ideally you have a guy who plays like Winnik but also has some offensive ability, but the Leafs just don't have anyone to plug in there at the moment that would be better than Winnik. Maybe a healthy Booth, or Leivo in a couple months.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 02:20 PM
Heh, I completely forgot about Booth.

LeafOfFaith
10-22-2014, 02:20 PM
I don't see how Winnik has been great on that line at all.

He's produced next to nothing and always seems two steps behind.

But true, our alternatives are limited at best. That's why we need to flip Franson for a good forward pronto.

zeke
10-22-2014, 02:29 PM
And even in the wins, there are prolonged or sporadic stretches where we are just totally dominated.

that's hockey.



Last night, NYI was all over us for the first 20 to 30 minutes. If they didn't keep missing the net or Bernier didn't keep coming up with the saves, it could've easily been 4-0 or 5-0 after the first.

this just isn't true.

isles scored early and dominated a bit, leafs scorrd and then dominated right back for a bit, then we took three penalties in a row and have up a goal on one of them. it was a pretty even period marred by a some stupid penalties at the end. 2-1 was at worst fair and it might nave been harsh.

then we dominated the second from start to finish.


We just can't play this disorganized, everyone do what you want kind of style. How often are guys just left wide, wide open in front of our net? It's absurd how frequently that happens. And yet we don't see the same privileges granted to our guys. I don't know about you all, but I'm pretty disappointed in the way we play this year. It looks just like last year, and when we win, we win with firepower from a few guys and goaltending. That's our formula. Neutralize the top line, and put a few past the goalie, and we're toast generally.

seems to me all our goals are our guys wide open on front of their net.

Wayward DP
10-22-2014, 06:40 PM
Yeesh, reading this GDT thread you'd think we got blown out.

LOF, the 2nd line was by far our best line in terms of possession and zone time in the first few games. They haven't produced the results to match it yet, but if they keep spending all their time in the o-zone with the talent they have that will come.

I'm not sure what your problem is with Winnik, he is what he is, a great bottom liner who ideally you don't want on your second line, but a guy who's holding his own. He's responsible defensively, has a pretty solid IQ, can skate, and has decent hands. You'll never see the high end skill from him that Naz & Lups have, but he's there to do the dirty work on the boards and create space for them. I mean, he's no Kulemin though.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 06:44 PM
I miss a lot of the games when I'm at work so I appreciate when people post whatever their opinion is of what they're watching at that moment. I can get the actual updates of what's happening online but not an impression of how they're looking.

Wayward DP
10-22-2014, 06:54 PM
I miss a lot of the games when I'm at work so I appreciate when people post whatever their opinion is of what they're watching at that moment. I can get the actual updates of what's happening online but not an impression of how they're looking.

Isles came out with better jump than us, Bernier let in a real softie early again. Leafs bounced back on a lucky bounce off the zamboni door, puck lands on Kessel's stick, feeds JVR in the slot. Lupul takes two stupid penalties, Tavares scores off a carom that lands right on his stick early in the PP.

Second period Leafs take over. Top line looked dangerous all night. Third line was great again, think them and the Kadri unit had the Tavares matchup and really shut him down. For the Isles the Strome line was really their best all night. Second goal was a quick breakout off a missed Isles shot, Clarkson to Leo to a streaking Phil down the wing, vintage Kessel. Polak earned the third goal.

Third period Bernier stood strong in the early going when the Isles came out with some jump, then things settled down and we cruised to victory.

Best game of the season for the fourth line IMO, Panik-Holland-combination of Lupul/Clarkson/Winnik. Holland killing penalties with JVR in Kozun's place.

On D Polak had a really strong game (really starting to like him), Robidas looked a lot better, the kids didn't make too many mistakes, and Franson Fransoned.

After the first goal Bernier was really solid, although rarely spectacular. Did make a great save on Cizikas when he was down and out and reach backed with his stick.

da_next_kid
10-22-2014, 07:04 PM
I miss a lot of the games when I'm at work so I appreciate when people post whatever their opinion is of what they're watching at that moment. I can get the actual updates of what's happening online but not an impression of how they're looking.


Let me know if you want torrents of the actual games. Usually available the next night around 3-4 am. Sometimes, I miss games as well but I try not to get spoiled and watch the games afterwards.