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corksens
10-22-2014, 10:01 AM
This is likely worthy of it's own thread - active shooter on parliament hill.

Two people shot as of now. Still on loose.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 10:06 AM
Jesus KB.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 10:06 AM
So I am guessing ISIS?

corksens
10-22-2014, 10:06 AM
Hmm. Not your best work, ST.

corksens
10-22-2014, 10:08 AM
Apparently there are reports of at least 30 shots.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 10:12 AM
You don't think it's ISIS?

I immediately thought of that cop in PQ.

LeafGm
10-22-2014, 10:15 AM
I dunno, that incident in Quebec doesn't really concern me a whole lot, to be honest. If the best plan our homegrown terrorists can come up with when they can no longer go overseas to join ISIS is to hop in their car, hit a couple of people with it and then be almost immediately killed by police, I think we're in good shape. Though, of course it is a tragedy that one of the soldiers he hit died.

This is a lot more concerning, but I wouldn't immediately jump to the ISIS conclusion.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 10:16 AM
No I agree, it's foolish to speculate...but the mind does wander there.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:16 AM
You don't think it's ISIS?

I immediately thought of that cop in PQ.

I'm thinking Isis too.

corksens
10-22-2014, 10:16 AM
You don't think it's ISIS?

I immediately thought of that cop in PQ.I definitely agree with that being the most likely story.

I was referring to your KB comment.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:17 AM
Supposedly the shootings have taken place at the war memorial area on parliament hill, not inside the building.

corksens
10-22-2014, 10:17 AM
I dunno, that incident in Quebec doesn't really concern me a whole lot, to be honest. If the best plan our homegrown terrorists can come up with when they can no longer go overseas to join ISIS is to hop in their car, hit a couple of people with it and then be almost immediately killed by police, I think we're in good shape. Though, of course it is a tragedy that one of the soldiers he hit died.

This is a lot more concerning, but I wouldn't immediately jump to the ISIS conclusion.I think it's fair to theorize in that direction given that ISIS has been calling on lone attacks for the past two months.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:18 AM
I think it's fair to theorize in that direction given that ISIS has been calling on lone attacks for the past two months.

And that they have 90 members already in Canada who have trained in Syria... Makes it plausible for sure.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 10:19 AM
I definitely agree with that being the most likely story.

I was referring to your KB comment.

Yeah dumb joke...I hadn't read the report yet. MP's are reporting gunman is dead.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:24 AM
thanks obama!

LeafGm
10-22-2014, 10:26 AM
I think it's fair to theorize in that direction given that ISIS has been calling on lone attacks for the past two months.
Yeah, I'm not saying it's not a fair conclusion to jump to.

I'm just saying it's not the conclusion I'm jumping to.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:27 AM
How is Obama at fault this time, Canada could have said no to air strikes but didn't, if you want to lay blame look at Harper.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:28 AM
Bill Curry @curryb
Police tell me shooter still on the loose as of 10:42 am

BeLeafer
10-22-2014, 10:28 AM
It's a fair conclusion to draw since the Canadian government is, after all, bombing these people.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:29 AM
Tim Harper @nutgraf1
Liberal Mp John McKay: "the guy was walking down the Hall of Honour with a rifle." McKay says he heard about 10 shots. #cdnpoli

LeafGm
10-22-2014, 10:29 AM
I think it's also, at this time, worth noting that had this or the incident in Quebec happened in the States, they probably would have been carrying an arsenal of weapons, likely with at least a few automatic weapons or an assault rifle included.

Instead, in Canada, one of these guys had to resort to using his car as a weapon, and this clown apparently stormed parliament with one hunting rifle.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:30 AM
It's a fair conclusion to draw since the Canadian government is, after all, bombing these people.

Again Harper chose to go with airstrikes, so again if people want to lay blame its him. That being said, Isis was going to likely attack regardless of what Canada did or didn't do.

corksens
10-22-2014, 10:30 AM
How is Obama at fault this time, Canada could have said no to air strikes but didn't, if you want to lay blame look at Harper.Jesus, shut the fvck up.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:34 AM
Jesus, shut the fvck up.

I think deep down you know I'm right on this subject, otherwise you wouldn't be so touchy. I myself am not blaming Harper I feel that Isis was going to attack they will regardless of what we do or don't do. That being said Harper is the one who chose to send our fighter jets over, he was not forced into it and to blame Obama is just absurd.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:34 AM
Justin Ling @Justin_Ling
It's obviously more than one shooter. So everyone get to a safe police, let police do their jobs, and follow orders.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 10:34 AM
How is Obama at fault this time, Canada could have said no to air strikes but didn't, if you want to lay blame look at Harper.

"Thanks Obama" is a running joke. Not serious.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:35 AM
Andrew Coyne @acoyne
Multiple assailants.

corksens
10-22-2014, 10:35 AM
I think deep down you know I'm right on this subject, otherwise you wouldn't be so touchy. I myself am not blaming Harper I feel that Isis was going to attack they will regardless of what we do or don't do. That being said Harper is the one who chose to send our fighter jets over, he was not forced into it and to blame Obama is just absurd.The issue is that you missed the fact that zeke wasn't being serious. Now we are in some stupid foreign policy debate when there is still an active shooter running amok.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 10:35 AM
I think deep down you know I'm right on this subject, otherwise you wouldn't be so touchy. I myself am not blaming Harper I feel that Isis was going to attack they will regardless of what we do or don't do. That being said Harper is the one who chose to send our fighter jets over, he was not forced into it and to blame Obama is just absurd.

Thanks Obama is a common joke response to every situation.

For example, my toast was burnt this morning. Thanks Obama.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:38 AM
Stephen Taylor @stephen_taylor
More shots fired on Parliament Hill.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:39 AM
The issue is that you missed the fact that zeke wasn't being serious. Now we are in some stupid foreign policy debate when there is still an active shooter running amok.

Oh ok, sorry I missed the joke. Your right, now ismt the time for any political debate when there's all this danger going on at parliament hill.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:39 AM
shawn scallen Ⓥ @scallen
@StuMillsCBC be careful! police scanner says possible 2nd suspect travelling 140-150 on motorcycle on 417 by eagleson

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:41 AM
Catherine Cullen @cath_cullen
Spoke to witness who says shooter was about 12 feet away from soldier when he opened fire at war memorial. Wearing black and white scarf.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 10:41 AM
****ing scum bags. Hope the soldier pulls through.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:42 AM
Antonella Artuso @suntooz
Source who spoke with two federal Conservatives says gunman tried to get into caucus and was shot. Report unconfirmed. #onpoli

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:44 AM
Lauren Dobson-Hughes @ldobsonhughes
Multiple shots fired again, seemingly from Chateau Laurier, next to Parliament and in front of the War Memorial

worm
10-22-2014, 10:45 AM
Where are we at now?

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:48 AM
holy crap


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnvUOUjXBW8

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:48 AM
So far one shooter dead, one supposedly on the run and at least one still lurking firing shots.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 10:49 AM
That's ****ing chilling....

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 10:51 AM
That's ****ing chilling....

Sounded like bombs going off... This getting nuts that's for sure.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 10:53 AM
That's just gunfire echoing...but yeah.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 10:54 AM
Video's coming up as private for me.

Well, this is crazy.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:55 AM
yeah they shut the video down.

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrGqoISd-do

zeke
10-22-2014, 10:59 AM
Bruce Cheadle @BCheadle
Reports now police suspect two or three shooters on Parliament Hill. Sergeant at Arms Kevin Vickers shot one assailant.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 11:01 AM
There's no metal detectors to get in that area?

corksens
10-22-2014, 11:02 AM
There is. I've been in twice. Insane security.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 11:07 AM
There is. I've been in twice. Insane security.

How does that even happen then?

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 11:07 AM
According to ctv schools are now being locked down as of now.

corksens
10-22-2014, 11:09 AM
How does that even happen then?That I don't know.

But to get into the building there is really only one heavily guarded corridor.

zeke
10-22-2014, 11:09 AM
Josh Wingrove @josh_wingrove
Police source has told a Globe colleague of mine that a second shooter has been shot

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 11:23 AM
This is insane.

Harper, Mulcair and Trudeau are in lock down and safe.

worm
10-22-2014, 11:25 AM
Canadian Forces bases across country being closed to public in wake of shooting of soldier at ‪#‎Ottawa‬ War Memorial. ‪#‎cdnpoli

Deckie007
10-22-2014, 11:30 AM
Scott Bixby ‏@scottbix 2m2 minutes ago
.@NYTimes: Soldier shot while guarding the National War Memorial in Ottawa has died http://nyti.ms/1woqud6

zeke
10-22-2014, 11:36 AM
Stephen Taylor @stephen_taylor
Sun News reports there may be 5 shooters according to credible sources.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 11:44 AM
Scott Bixby ‏@scottbix 2m2 minutes ago
.@NYTimes: Soldier shot while guarding the National War Memorial in Ottawa has died http://nyti.ms/1woqud6

Reports have that he's still alive...

worm
10-22-2014, 11:44 AM
what reports?

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 11:47 AM
CNN is covering the shootings.

CRL
10-22-2014, 11:47 AM
I saw ambulance picking him up, it was bad, they were doing cpr already, ****er shot him from close range

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 11:55 AM
According to a witness the solider was shot 4 times in the back close range before keeling over.

CRL
10-22-2014, 11:57 AM
Cowards

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 12:00 PM
According to a witness the solider was shot 4 times in the back close range before keeling over.

Bastards! ****ing cowards.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 12:02 PM
According to a witness the solider was shot 4 times in the back close range before keeling over.

****ing disgusting.

worm
10-22-2014, 12:05 PM
re: game vs sens
Renaud Lavoie‏@renlavoietva
Keep in mind. Stressful day for Maple Leafs players. They are staying downtown where the shootings happened today in Ottawa.


This is reminding me of the Boston marathon stuff.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 12:06 PM
Yup, which is why I'm glad the cops eliminated the 1st shooter. To shoot an unarmed soldier from the back is a real low blow, and a gutless move.

worm
10-22-2014, 12:06 PM
BREAKING: @ottawapolice confirm one death on Parliament Hill. 3 separate shootings: War Memorial, Hill and "near Rideau Centre"

zeke
10-22-2014, 12:07 PM
Mark Day @1310NewsDay
#BREAKING
#OTTAWA police are asking Facebook and twitter users to stop reporting police locations
#ParliamentHill

worm
10-22-2014, 12:09 PM
Yup, which is why I'm glad the cops eliminated the 1st shooter. To shoot an unarmed soldier from the back is a real low blow, and a gutless move.

Did they though?

Deckie007
10-22-2014, 12:10 PM
HuffPost Canada ‏@HuffPostCanada 5m5 minutes ago
Stunning photo inside caucus room during shooting http://huff.to/1DAOfmp

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0kEJNsIEAA4xsF.jpg

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 12:11 PM
Did they though?

I heard on cp24 and cnn that they did but who knows.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 12:17 PM
Maple Leafs are in a hotel near Parliment Hill and are in lock down.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 12:18 PM
Mark Day @1310NewsDay
#BREAKING
#OTTAWA police are asking Facebook and twitter users to stop reporting police locations
#ParliamentHill

Christ people are stupid.

worm
10-22-2014, 12:19 PM
I heard on cp24 and cnn that they did but who knows.

I have heard both.

worm
10-22-2014, 12:24 PM
BREAKING | Civic hospital confirms 2 victims on way to hospital now; one shot. Both in non-life-threatening condition. #cbcOTT #OTTnews

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 12:24 PM
Just heard that there was a shooting in the Rideau centre In Ottawa. Where I'm at kingston the military is on high alert, two of them came into my moms work about an hour ago wanting to change their license plates on their vehicles to avoid being a target.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 12:25 PM
The fear in town is that the shooters could target the royal military college, again just fears in town nothing has Indicated the shooters will show up.

zeke
10-22-2014, 12:33 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0kGf7MCAAAYi0P.jpg:large

zeke
10-22-2014, 12:34 PM
Kathy Shaidle @kshaidle
@SunNewsNetwork reporting that the unarmed reservist soldier shot at National War Memorial has now died. #Ottawa

worm
10-22-2014, 12:34 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0kGf7MCAAAYi0P.jpg:large

****ing insane

PKForce81
10-22-2014, 12:39 PM
Just heard that there was a shooting in the Rideau centre In Ottawa. Where I'm at kingston the military is on high alert, two of them came into my moms work about an hour ago wanting to change their license plates on their vehicles to avoid being a target.

Some reports say in Rideau and others say close to it which could just be describing scenes around Parliament..can't find anything else about shootings at Rideau Centre.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 12:42 PM
All I know is that it's attached to the leafs hotel.

worm
10-22-2014, 12:42 PM
President Obama has reportedly been briefed on the Ottawa shootings by homeland security adviser Lisa Monaco #cbc

worm
10-22-2014, 12:43 PM
Aaron Saltzman
@cbcsaltzman
#BREAKING : CBC's Evan Solomon: Kevin Vickers, SGT at Arms, Former RCMP at #Ott police station giving statement. Reports he shot suspect.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 12:47 PM
CBC reporting that the soildier has passed away.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 12:55 PM
Parts of kingston might be going into lockdown including royal military college, kingston General hospital as well as government buildings.

corksens
10-22-2014, 01:20 PM
All I know is that it's attached to the leafs hotel.It is. They stay at the Westin often. But it can easily be secured off from the mall.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 01:40 PM
Parts of kingston might be going into lockdown including royal military college, kingston General hospital as well as government buildings.

We don't care about Kingston.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 01:45 PM
Mansbridge speculating that it may be only one shooter, rideau centre shootings confirmed as false.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 01:46 PM
Apparently the suspect was killed at the end of that video.

zeke
10-22-2014, 01:46 PM
Kim Mackrael @kimmackrael
Police say no incident happened at Rideau Centre. "Incidents occurred at the National War Memorial and on Parliament Hill."

UWHabs
10-22-2014, 01:46 PM
So are things clear now, or what? Haven't really heard anything new in the last hour or so.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 01:53 PM
Lockdowns lifted at Chateau Laurier/Rideau Centre.

zeke
10-22-2014, 02:01 PM
Jason Lietaer @jasonlietaer
1/3 APwitness:"I looked out the window and saw a shooter, a man dressed all in black with a kerchief over his nose and mouth and something..

Jason Lietaer @jasonlietaer
2/3: ..over his head..." as well, holding a rifle and shooting an honor guard in front of the cenotaph point-blank, twice," Zobl told CP

Jason Lietaer @jasonlietaer
3/3. The worst: "The honor guard dropped to the ground, and the shooter kind of raised his arms in triumph holding the rifle."

BeLeafer
10-22-2014, 02:07 PM
It could be a lone nut. Wouldn't be the first time one of those open fire in Ottawa.

CRL
10-22-2014, 02:07 PM
coward

corksens
10-22-2014, 02:15 PM
Bets on being related to Isis or Islam.

Pronger84
10-22-2014, 02:17 PM
I'm betting its Isis.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-22-2014, 02:22 PM
Bets on being related to Isis or Islam.

Wouldn't rule it out. Seems to be the trend now. The attack in Quebec was by a kid who had been radicalized. Religion of peace my ass.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 02:23 PM
Wearing all black and a kerchief...

worm
10-22-2014, 02:51 PM
Mansbridge speculating that it may be only one shooter, rideau centre shootings confirmed as false.

there is almost never a second shooter

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 02:52 PM
Wonder when we'll find out about the suspect's identity.

Have they still not confirmed it was more than one guy?

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 02:53 PM
Well the shootings have all but stopped after the suspect that entered Parliament hill was taken down...everything is speculative.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 03:00 PM
Yeah, there's almost always speculation of more than one person involved that proves to be false in situations like this.

zeke
10-22-2014, 03:50 PM
this is the guy who ran over those people yesterday:


http://www.vice.com/read/martin-rouleaus-martyrdom?utm_source=vicetwitterus


'RADICALIZED' CANADIAN TERRORIST MARTIN ROULEAU IS BEING PRAISED AS A MARTYR BY THE ISLAMIC STATE

http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/194077/921583-martin-couture-rouleau-tue-deux.jpghttp://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/194077/921583-martin-couture-rouleau-tue-deux.jpg

Even though Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper is remaining tight-lipped about the specifics of a “suspected terror attack” yesterday in Montreal, online Canadian jihadists currently plying their trade in Iraq and Syria are already making a martyr out of the suspected attacker.

Martin Rouleau—who went by the alias Ahmad LeConverti (a.k.a. Ahmad the Converted)—allegedly ran over two Canadian soldiers near a base south of Montreal before being chased and subsequently shot dead by police. One of the soldiers has died from his injuries in the hospital, and the other remians in critical condition.

CRL
10-22-2014, 03:54 PM
this is the guy who ran over those people yesterday:


http://www.vice.com/read/martin-rouleaus-martyrdom?utm_source=vicetwitterus

Duche written all over

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 03:57 PM
this is the guy who ran over those people yesterday:


http://www.vice.com/read/martin-rouleaus-martyrdom?utm_source=vicetwitterus

The ****. He looks like my ex.

PKForce81
10-22-2014, 04:01 PM
zeke he looks a bit like you. lol

Deckie007
10-22-2014, 04:05 PM
The ****. He looks like my ex.

Now we know your type. :smilewinkgrin:

zeke
10-22-2014, 04:08 PM
The ****. He looks like my ex.


zeke he looks a bit like you. lol

awkward.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:10 PM
Nah he's not Italian enough to be zeke.

CTheBigPicture
10-22-2014, 04:11 PM
awkward.


lol

MyNameIsJonas
10-22-2014, 04:15 PM
Nah he's not Italian enough to be zeke.

No one is Italian enough to be Zeke.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:15 PM
CBC News Alerts
Gunman killed in Parliament attack named as Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, a Canadian born in 1982, American media report claims. #cdnpoli #Ottawa

No idea how authentic this is.

PKForce81
10-22-2014, 04:16 PM
awkward.

She's got some explaining to do. ;)


BTW i was watching MacLean talk about the situation and he talked a bit about the Leafs as well. Asked about Phil Kessel, he was like "We have to be aware every time he's on the ice." :)

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:17 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0k-rqUCMAAGQAJ.jpg

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:18 PM
So I guess that "cannon" sound in the video was that douchebag firing his shotgun.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 04:19 PM
What's that pic Metal? Confirmed its him?

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:21 PM
Got it from here: http://heavy.com/news/2014/10/michael-zehaf-bibeau-ottawa-parliament-shooting-terro-attack/

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 04:22 PM
He looks like a waste of skin.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 04:22 PM
****ing Kevin Vickers, my man.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:25 PM
Looks like this will set off more racist chatter in addition to the increased terror threat.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 04:27 PM
I was listening to 1010 and they made a scary remark that there is supposedly some list of 80 or 90 potential terror suspects here and that something like this (2 attacks in a couple day) could embolden more activity.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:28 PM
The White House official suggested that in his PC. Radicalized Americans/Canadians coming "home" to carry out terror acts.

worm
10-22-2014, 04:30 PM
I was listening to 1010 and they made a scary remark that there is supposedly some list of 80 or 90 potential terror suspects here and that something like this (2 attacks in a couple day) could embolden more activity.

Pretty much the first thing I thought of....what happens next?

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:34 PM
Increased security everywhere. Its already happening at the Raptors' game tonight with extra security checks.

Volcanologist
10-22-2014, 04:37 PM
The ****. He looks like my ex.

which pic, pool or beard?

zeke
10-22-2014, 04:37 PM
Rosemary Barton @RosieBarton
.@NDPGretzky says suspect was caucasian. #hw

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:38 PM
The Globe and Mail
Soldier killed at war memorial identified as Cpl. Nathan Cirillo #ottawashooting http://trib.al/LaeDvXI

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 04:43 PM
which pic, pool or beard?

Pool.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 04:44 PM
awkward.

:worry-rose:

zeke
10-22-2014, 04:45 PM
https://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/canadas-cbc-news-shows-what-thoughtful-breaking-news-coverage-really-looks-like_b243081


Canada’s CBC News Shows What Thoughtful Breaking News Coverage Really Looks Like

For hours this afternoon, Canada’s CBC News covered the breaking news of at least three shooting incidents in Ottawa. Led by veteran anchor Peter Mansbridge, the rolling coverage was smart, careful, and absolutely un-American.

As NPR’s Andy Carvin noted, Mansbridge set a respectful, careful tone, calling out interview subjects who had unconfirmed or contradictory information. “So much we could learn from his delivery today,” Carvin told me on Twitter.

On screen, CBC News kept a ticker scrolling, a “Breaking News” bug in the corner, a “LIVE” bug at the top right, and three boxes showing video and live pictures. Mansbridge rarely appeared on camera, even as he took pains to ensure information was correct before reporting anything–particularly the news a soldier shot at Ottawa’s War Memorial had died of his injuries.

As I watched via the network’s live stream in New York, I never heard a second of dramatic music, never saw a full-screen wipe with a catchy graphic like TERROR ON PARLIAMENT HILL, and never, ever heard Mansbridge or any of the CBC’s reporters dip even a toe into the waters of self-promotion.

Compared that to the American cable news networks, where we’ve come to expect that every prime time newscast will begin with urgent music and BREAKING NEWS–complete with multiple on-screen reminders that this is BREAKING NEWS of great importance. CBC’s coverage was, well, very Canadian. And to the nervous system of an American observer of TV news, it was decidedly strange to experience.

Mansbridge, in sharp contrast to the frenetic, breathless delivery we’ve come to expect from American news anchors in times of breaking news (including stories of far less significance than the attacks in Canada), was thoughtful, took his time, and seemed at times to pause, and to consider his words before speaking. Just. Imagine. That.

Around 1:30 ET, three-and-a-half hours into his coverage, Mansbridge paused to update viewers. “What do we know with certainty right now?” There was no place for exaggeration, rumor, or mistakes. It was like watching grown-up news. And suddenly, seeing it, I was struck by how often we don’t see it here in the U.S. It’s been a long time since American anchors like Frank Reynolds said “let’s nail it down…let’s get it right.”

Even if it means letting someone else report it first.

CBC News was soundly beaten by various journalists on Twitter with word the War Memorial soldier had died, but when time came for Mansbridge to bring this sad fact into his coverage, he warned he had “bad news” to report, and then very carefully explained how CBC came to believe this information was correct. It wasn’t loud and urgent. It was quiet and somber. And as such, it felt very, very important. It felt proper.

On a very frightening and horrific day for Canada, Mansbridge and his CBC colleagues did their jobs with dignity and respect. Andy Carvin is right. We could learn from their example.

Metalleaf
10-22-2014, 04:48 PM
Yeah CP24 kept using "incredible" to described the scenes...wrong word really.

SundinsTooth
10-22-2014, 04:50 PM
https://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/canadas-cbc-news-shows-what-thoughtful-breaking-news-coverage-really-looks-like_b243081

Good piece...I noticed 1010 had the big music and the overproduced "Shooting on Parliament Hill" break. Nasty.

anne25
10-22-2014, 04:56 PM
The lockdown is easing off now so finally people are able to move about in that area a bit easier.

JackBurton
10-22-2014, 05:01 PM
Yeah CP24 kept using "incredible" to described the scenes...wrong word really.

This is a station that thought reminding Mike Tyson he was a rapist was a good idea.

worm
10-22-2014, 05:07 PM
http://replygif.net/i/1426.gif

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 05:10 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/22/1414010871396_wps_38_10153651_1015266468913485.jpg

The reservist that was shot. :( That's one handsome guy.

LeafGm
10-22-2014, 06:02 PM
24 years old, and had a five year-old kid that just started kindergarten a few weeks ago.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 06:15 PM
Not sure how accurate but...

"Zehaf-Bibeau, who had a criminal history for drug trafficking in Montreal and robbery in Vancouver, was born in Quebec as Michael Joseph Hall but recently converted to Islam, CBS reported.

Sources told the Globe and Mail that he had been designated 'high-risk traveler' and government had seized his passport"

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 06:23 PM
I hope we see some quality work finding at least some of these other radicals that are believed to be in Canada. I'd like to get them all, but at least I hope we get a little American for once...our safety above their rights.

LeafGm
10-22-2014, 06:32 PM
I hope we see some quality work finding at least some of these other radicals that are believed to be in Canada. I'd like to get them all, but at least I hope we get a little American for once...our safety above their rights.
With all due respect...**** that.

JackBurton
10-22-2014, 06:36 PM
Not sure how accurate but...

"Zehaf-Bibeau, who had a criminal history for drug trafficking in Montreal and robbery in Vancouver, was born in Quebec as Michael Joseph Hall but recently converted to Islam, CBS reported.

Sources told the Globe and Mail that he had been designated 'high-risk traveler' and government had seized his passport"

Seems true.

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 06:53 PM
I hope we see some quality work finding at least some of these other radicals that are believed to be in Canada. I'd like to get them all, but at least I hope we get a little American for once...our safety above their rights.
Problem is telling the difference between us and them. So it could be you or me that loses our rights.

ForeverTML
10-22-2014, 07:03 PM
I hope we see some quality work finding at least some of these other radicals that are believed to be in Canada. I'd like to get them all, but at least I hope we get a little American for once...our safety above their rights.

That my friend, is a slippery goddamn slope. Dont even go there.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 07:06 PM
Problem is telling the difference between us and them. So it could be you or me that loses our rights.

I'm talking about things like the way the guy that ran over those men had been questioned by police, but they couldn't hold him...and it sounds like they knew he was bad news. I'm talking about people that came over here to cause shit, we kind of know it, but we're too nice to do anything.

That kind of thing.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 07:07 PM
To be even clearer, I'm talking about people using our lax policies to come here specifically to cause shit and we let them into the country.

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 07:15 PM
To be even clearer, I'm talking about people using our lax policies to come here specifically to cause shit and we let them into the country.

Seems odd to make this statement when both of the people who committed the past two crimes were Canadian born and raised.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 07:22 PM
Seems odd to make this statement when both of the people who committed the past two crimes were Canadian born and raised.

It's all wrapped up into one big ball of frustration HP. I feel like we are at war and maybe we should start acting like it.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 07:24 PM
And I'm sure the fact that my son is in Ottawa right now gets my parental blood boiling a little easier than usual.

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 07:27 PM
It's all wrapped up into one big ball of frustration HP. I feel like we are at war and maybe we should start acting like it.

I understand and agree.... but we definitely have to make sure we don't lose track of what makes Canada (and most Western countries) great. If we start locking people up for looking suspicious and not going through due process we are (to use an overused cliche) going down a very slippery slope that I want no part of.

TheCountofMonteCristo
10-22-2014, 07:28 PM
I hope we see some quality work finding at least some of these other radicals that are believed to be in Canada. I'd like to get them all, but at least I hope we get a little American for once...[B]our safety above their rights.

the fact you wrote that means the terrorists have won

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 07:29 PM
And I'm sure the fact that my son is in Ottawa right now gets my parental blood boiling a little easier than usual.

No doubt. I definitely have never known you to be irrational.

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 07:29 PM
I hope we see some quality work finding at least some of these other radicals that are believed to be in Canada. I'd like to get them all, but at least I hope we get a little American for once...our safety above their rights.

the fact you wrote that means the terrorists have won

Looks to me like Pronger has won.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 07:34 PM
Lol, I seriously don't care how bad it sounds, I just want bad guys to be dealt with and I don't want the law to be their friend.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 07:36 PM
Because my wife works with the cops I get all the stories about the ****ed up way people get away with things, and it's appalling.

hockeylover
10-22-2014, 07:37 PM
What the hell makes Canadian citizen, Mike Hall, change his name to Mike Zehaf-Bibeau and convert to Islam anyway?

Seems crazy it's so easy to talk Canadians into attacking their own country.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 07:47 PM
What the hell makes Canadian citizen, Mike Hall, change his name to Mike Zehaf-Bibeau and convert to Islam anyway?

Seems crazy it's so easy to talk Canadians into attacking their own country.
I don't think it's easy Hl, unless the individual is flawed in some way. It does raise a good point though...how is this being done exactly?

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 07:50 PM
Lol, I seriously don't care how bad it sounds, I just want bad guys to be dealt with and I don't want the law to be their friend.

That's what we all want... we just gotta make sure they're actually bad guys.

TheCountofMonteCristo
10-22-2014, 07:54 PM
I don't think it's easy Hl, unless the individual is flawed in some way. It does raise a good point though...how is this being done exactly?

true and no matter what we do, we cannot stop someone from going that way

the homegrown guys are worse than the "foreign" ones because there really is not much we can do about them, can't deny them entry, deport them etc

Maybe we just need to check out the next Team Canada hockey game and arrest all that are not cheering for us because that alone shows mental instability ;)

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 07:54 PM
I don't think it's easy Hl, unless the individual is flawed in some way. It does raise a good point though...how is this being done exactly?

I think it's gullible people reading bullshit on the interwebz and getting sucked in.

Hell I know a few people who I thought were pretty smart, non-wingnuts who are full on into all this zeitgeist/conspiracy/Illuminati bullshit. People get sucked into these things then it snowballs.

Maybe there's some actual recruiting too... I don't know.

TheCountofMonteCristo
10-22-2014, 07:57 PM
I think it's gullible people reading bullshit on the interwebz and getting sucked in.

Hell I know a few people who I thought were pretty smart, non-wingnuts who are full on into all this zeitgeist/conspiracy/Illuminati bullshit. People get sucked into these things then it snowballs.

Maybe there's some actual recruiting too... I don't know.

You don't believe the world is being run by the few guys who run the Roman Catholic Church?

Altair
10-22-2014, 08:11 PM
I dunno, that incident in Quebec doesn't really concern me a whole lot, to be honest. If the best plan our homegrown terrorists can come up with when they can no longer go overseas to join ISIS is to hop in their car, hit a couple of people with it and then be almost immediately killed by police, I think we're in good shape. Though, of course it is a tragedy that one of the soldiers he hit died.

This is a lot more concerning, but I wouldn't immediately jump to the ISIS conclusion. fairly concerning for those of us in uniform at the moment. We are getting orders to not wear our uniforms going to and from work due to the chance we, or members of our families will become targets.

Even low scale attacks like this can have far reaching repercussions.

lecoqsportif
10-22-2014, 08:45 PM
What the hell makes Canadian citizen, Mike Hall, change his name to Mike Zehaf-Bibeau and convert to Islam anyway?

Seems crazy it's so easy to talk Canadians into attacking their own country.

Crazy. Maybe it's that.

Actually, he has a track record and there may well be baggage. Gravitating to a "outsider" ideology just feeds his perception of persecution/anger/whatever. Guys like this often have very basic problems with following basic rules of society.

Anyway, that's the extent of my pop psychology.

Bleedsblue&white
10-22-2014, 08:55 PM
Cults have been around forever, people are weak...I get that; I have a harder time understanding getting worked up to the point AND willing to kill yourself over a message.
That's where the real crazy comes in I think.

Aberdeen
10-22-2014, 08:57 PM
It's people with mental illness basically. It's like moths to a flame with these cults - they know just what to say.

CH1
10-22-2014, 08:57 PM
Crazy. Maybe it's that.

Actually, he has a track record and there may well be baggage. Gravitating to a "outsider" ideology just feeds his perception of persecution/anger/whatever. Guys like this often have very basic problems with following basic rules of society.

Anyway, that's the extent of my pop psychology.

Your pop psychology is pretty close to the truth. Outsiders are going to drift inside something that gives their life purpose. Some people find meaning in heroin or forumice, others find it in a terrorist group.

CH1
10-22-2014, 09:01 PM
Cults have been around forever, people are weak...I get that; I have a harder time understanding getting worked up to the point AND willing to kill yourself over a message.
That's where the real crazy comes in I think.

You're crazy and enslaved for waking up 5 days a week just to go to work. What the government doesn't garnish off the top, you spend on shelter and sustenance. They give you two days off so you can spend whatever's left, ensuring that you'll need to show up again on Monday morning.

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 09:10 PM
You're crazy and enslaved for waking up 5 days a week just to go to work. What the government doesn't garnish off the top, you spend on shelter and sustenance. They give you two days off so you can spend whatever's left, ensuring that you'll need to show up again on Monday morning.

http://i.imgur.com/ChHNZ.gif

JohnnyHolmes
10-22-2014, 09:21 PM
Religion of peace.

lecoqsportif
10-22-2014, 09:34 PM
Religion of peace.

There are fascist Buddhist monks in asia.

And if you mix industrial strength hopelessness/poverty with Christian evangelical fundamentalism I bet you get some similar nasty outcomes.

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 09:37 PM
There are fascist Buddhist monks in asia.

And if you mix industrial strength hopelessness/poverty with Christian evangelical fundamentalism I bet you get some similar nasty outcomes.

http://kkk.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Ku-Klux-Klan.jpg

JohnnyHolmes
10-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Is that right.

Well I'm in Asia right now, I'll keep a look out for them. Pretty sure there are some shithole places around here that are way worse than Quebec as well.

We're at war. Pick a side.

Habspatrol
10-22-2014, 09:40 PM
Is that right.

Well I'm in Asia right now, I'll keep a look out for them. Pretty sure there are some shithole places around here that are way worse than Quebec as well.

We're at war. Pick a side.

Who are we against though?

HabsAddict
10-22-2014, 09:55 PM
Who are we against though?

Political Islam. Not Islam as a faith, but against those who will not separate the Western foundational ideology of church and state.

You can practice your faith in peace, but if you try to yield it as political entity, particularly in a forceful or violent manner, you have breached a fundamental principle of our society.

CH1
10-22-2014, 09:56 PM
Who are we against though?

Bruins

JohnnyHolmes
10-22-2014, 10:31 PM
Political Islam. Not Islam as a faith, but against those who will not separate the Western foundational ideology of church and state.

You can practice your faith in peace, but if you try to yield it as political entity, particularly in a forceful or violent manner, you have breached a fundamental principle of our society.

People need to wake up.

The "moderates" are ok with the "radicals". They might say all the right things in public, but they don't actually believe or mean any of it.

They are also allowed and encouraged to lie to deceive the infidel.

There is no separation.

lecoqsportif
10-22-2014, 10:34 PM
Bruins

Damn straight.

Worse than ebola/ISIL/Beiber combined.

Thankfully they are very, very dumb.

lecoqsportif
10-22-2014, 10:39 PM
Is that right.

Well I'm in Asia right now, I'll keep a look out for them. Pretty sure there are some shithole places around here that are way worse than Quebec as well.

Sri Lanka, Myanmar... public knowledge.


We're at war. Pick a side.

Get a grip.

SENSible
10-22-2014, 10:49 PM
People need to wake up.

The "moderates" are ok with the "radicals". They might say all the right things in public, but they don't actually believe or mean any of it.

They are also allowed and encouraged to lie to deceive the infidel.

There is no separation.

If the moderate Muslims are so upset at the radicals (ISIS), then we should see plenty of moderate Muslim countries going to war against ISIS...

Anyone care to type out the whole list of Muslim countries at war with ISIS? (My fingers are far too tired and I'm sure it MUST be rather lengthy)

HabsAddict
10-22-2014, 10:53 PM
People need to wake up.

The "moderates" are ok with the "radicals". They might say all the right things in public, but they don't actually believe or mean any of it.

They are also allowed and encouraged to lie to deceive the infidel.

There is no separation.


While I agree, it's too broad a statement. I would say a significant portion of moderates look the other way or secretly support it.....but absolutely not all and probably not the majority.

MindzEye
10-22-2014, 11:01 PM
People need to wake up.

and do what, exactly?

HabsAddict
10-22-2014, 11:20 PM
This effen pieces of shit made us angry...but more importantly in the long term, we will lose some of our freedoms to feel more secure.....

MindzEye
10-23-2014, 12:31 AM
This effen pieces of shit made us angry...but more importantly in the long term, we will lose some of our freedoms to feel more secure.....

And we shouldn't. Your freedom is more important than my security. What's important is finding and stopping organized groups planning to attack, you're never going to stop every lone nutter who wants to martyr themselves.

Metalleaf
10-23-2014, 12:37 AM
This isn't the first time a lone moron has attacked Parliament Hill. There was the Greyhound incident and the Yosemite Sam guy who blew himself up with dynamite in 1966.

Deckie007
10-23-2014, 12:48 AM
This isn't the first time a lone moron has attacked Parliament Hill. There was the Greyhound incident and the Yosemite Sam guy who blew himself up with dynamite in 1966.

But it's now and it's sand ******s (or wannabes) and they're doing scary stuff in the Middle East. It a terrible what happened to that young solider, but let's not act like it's a Boston Marathon bombing or 9/11.

JohnnyHolmes
10-23-2014, 02:14 AM
Do what?

Treat them like the enemy they are for starters. The first thing anyone says when things like this happen is "Yeah but they're not all like that" or they'll make some idiotic statement like "Look out for those fascist buddhist monks".

By the way, no fascist buddhist monks tried to blow anything up, or cut anyone's head off in Japan today. I'm keeping an eye out though. Rest assured.

They knew this guy was a threat. His passport was revoked, everyone knew he was a radical.

Anyway I'm glad he's dead.

Coward scum. Shooting an unarmed reservist that is for all intents a tourist magnet, is beyond pathetic.

Where are all these good Muslims now? Where is their outrage? Who in that community is doing ANYTHING to stop or prevent things like this?

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 02:17 AM
Two issues...

The biggest threat to Muslims is......political Islam and the abhorent level of terror and subjugation some of their own are willing to resort too.

Some Westerners who naivly believe that appeasement is a path to "peace and understanding" with what is nothing less then an often repeated, historically proven political ideology of conquer and again..........subjugation.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W808NMMe_8E

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 02:54 AM
Do what?

Treat them like the enemy they are for starters.

Where are all these good Muslims now? Where is their outrage? Who in that community is doing ANYTHING to stop or prevent things like this?

We must have a clearer and better defined meme of who the enemy is. I keep using the term POLITICAL Islam as a seperator and identfier for two reasons.....one is that it directly and unambiguously identifies it as a religion and politics, which contradicts our foundational current Western values of seperation of church and state.......two, the political identifier gives cover to Islam as a faith.

To simply call them "radical fundamentist" is to gloss over a defined, aggressive, subjugative political movement that has a several hundred year history. Those who intentionally use it do so to give cover to those who simply practice their religion peacefully. It's a laudable but misplaced intent. It generalizes the culprits as simply outliers of any religion rather then defining who, why and what they are.

As for the Muslim community.....

I would say most of them are as horrified as anyone that this is taking place. Not all, but most. Some have been instrumental in identfying potential problems in their community. We need to understand, seperate and embrace those who simply practice their faith from those who preach it's politics.

Whatever religion...........

We need to prosecute those that preach violence and criminalize those who join proven terrorist organization.

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 05:59 AM
This is a post I made elsewhere.

Response to.........some Muslim leaders are denouncing ISIS.....


First a distinction...

....quoting ISIS and political Islam denouncers living in West has little or no impact on those who practice it in their own Islamic states. In fact, if they did not denounce it while living in the West, they are part of the problem.

....denouncement made by religious leaders that ISIS are evil outliers of Islam while they are the very power of subjugating people to the political control of Islam is at the very least, hypocritical.

Reality is that the social practice and control of political Islam through Sharia Law is widespread and accepted. There are currently 71 countries that are from entirely to partially ruled buy Sharia Law. Yes, 71 countries. I was surprised too.

One can argue that living under Sharia Law and political Islam is not by itself violent. While true, we can't overlook that it also means that you have people immersed in completely different core social and political values that are foreign or hostile to Western social and political core values. As is normal for humans, those core values become deep identifier of tribalism and they are not easily or willingly abandoned by either side. So conflict is and will be inevitable. Seven hundred years of proof.

Is there even a remote acceptable argument that the West should appease and co-exist or subjugate with or under Sharia Law and political Islam within it's borders? Or allow states within states like some of the current 71 countries?

Given the above, how do you separate the ubiquitous and subjugation power of Sharia Law and political Islam to a simple practice of faith? Do you think that all these 71 countries will convert and accept the foundational Western ideology of the separation of church and state? Next few generations? Ever?

I do not see "peace" in the sense that we are use to from formerly aggressive Western nations. I see continuous multi generational conflict between states and proto-states that will ebb and flow. Worse still, I foresee civil war outbreaks as some Western countries Muslim population explode within their borders. it's already happening in Africa.

What can we do about it? How does it resolve? I'm still too angry to answer acceptably......

SENSible
10-23-2014, 06:52 AM
This is a post I made elsewhere.

Response to.........some Muslim leaders are denouncing ISIS.....

Still waiting for the list of those 71 countries who have taken up arms to fight ISIS...

The west is at war with ISIS. Why are the "moderate" Muslim countries not at war I with ISIS?

If these "radical" Muslims don't represent the true Islamic belief, why are no "moderate" Muslims countries taking up arms to stop them?

Platitudes from individual Muslims are meaningless when the actions of Muslim states makes it clear which side of this war they are on.

BeLeafer
10-23-2014, 07:46 AM
Lone nut.

zeke
10-23-2014, 09:24 AM
The west is at war with ISIS. Why are the "moderate" Muslim countries not at war I with ISIS?

well, they are.

CH1
10-23-2014, 09:42 AM
And we shouldn't. Your freedom is more important than my security. What's important is finding and stopping organized groups planning to attack, you're never going to stop every lone nutter who wants to martyr themselves.

Lone nutter indeed. It's nauseating to have read a few of the hundred "think pieces" about how Canada. Has. Changed. Forever.

zeke
10-23-2014, 01:45 PM
Laura Stone @l_stone
MP Laurie Hawn describes making spears w/ maple leaf poles: “If the son of a bitch is coming through the doors were going to make him pay.”

SENSible
10-23-2014, 01:48 PM
well, they are.

Feel free to list all of them...Iran and Syria are fighting due to ISIS action on their soil. Where are the rest of Muslim countries?

zeke
10-23-2014, 02:02 PM
SA, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan have all assisted in airstrikes and other strategies.

Turkey is the worrying holdout right now.

SENSible
10-23-2014, 02:17 PM
SA, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan have all assisted in airstrikes and other strategies.

Turkey is the worrying holdout right now.

So 5 out of 71 have ASSISTED with airstrikes. To be honest, that is better than I thought, but not nearly enough of a response to prove the majority of the Islamic world truly opposes ISIS.

zeke
10-23-2014, 02:23 PM
most of those 71 countries have their own terrorists to deal with.

LeafGm
10-23-2014, 02:35 PM
most of those 71 countries have their own terrorists to deal with.
...or are widely separated from the region by geography, and/or do not have the military power or financial wherewithal to step in.

Besides, why exactly is ISIS the responsibility of every Muslim-majority state?

corksens
10-23-2014, 02:35 PM
There are fascist Buddhist monks in asia.

And if you mix industrial strength hopelessness/poverty with Christian evangelical fundamentalism I bet you get some similar nasty outcomes.Classic.

corksens
10-23-2014, 02:36 PM
Muslim runs down and kills a soldier with a car. Muslim kills a ceremonial guard and storms Parliament buildings. 18 Muslims arrested for plotting to behead the Prime Minister.

Can we just take a second and call it for what it is? Other faiths aren't committing these acts. It's Muslims doing it in the name of Islam. Quit making excuses.

LeafGm
10-23-2014, 02:43 PM
Muslim runs down and kills a soldier with a car. Muslim kills a ceremonial guard and storms Parliament buildings. 18 Muslims arrested for plotting to behead the Prime Minister.

Can we just take a second and call it for what it is? Other faiths aren't committing these acts. It's Muslims doing it in the name of Islam. Quit making excuses.
Yeah, damn those fookin Mooslems! Why can't they be more like Christians? Nobody's ever committed any atrocities in the name of the One True Religion!

Deckie007
10-23-2014, 02:45 PM
I was about to say, they've got a lot of catching up to go to match what Christians have done...

corksens
10-23-2014, 02:48 PM
Who said anything about "fvcking Muslims" - but facts are the facts. I don't care about what happened in the distant past regarding Christian violence, I care about what is happening today in the Western world.

And radical political Islam is currently our largest security issue.

Deckie007
10-23-2014, 02:50 PM
And radical political Islam is currently our largest security issue.

Hard to argue with that...

corksens
10-23-2014, 02:58 PM
Hard to argue with that...So why bother with the "well Christians used to do bad things too!" stuff. It is entirely irrelevant to the issue.

There is nothing wrong with stating the facts here. There is a significant number of people in this world (and this country) that wish to do us extreme under the banner of their religion. We have to find a way to deal with it.

Making comparisons, calling them a lone nut, blaming mental illness won't get us anywhere near to a successful end point.

zeke
10-23-2014, 03:02 PM
And radical political Islam is currently our largest security issue.

Is it really?

how many canadian deaths due to Political Islam?

Habspatrol
10-23-2014, 03:04 PM
Muslim runs down and kills a soldier with a car. Muslim kills a ceremonial guard and storms Parliament buildings. 18 Muslims arrested for plotting to behead the Prime Minister.

Can we just take a second and call it for what it is? Other faiths aren't committing these acts. It's Muslims doing it in the name of Islam. Quit making excuses.
What percentage of murders in Canada and the US are committed by Muslims? Christians? Atheists? Jews?

I'd like to see the numbers before I get on board with singling one group out.

TheCountofMonteCristo
10-23-2014, 03:08 PM
Lone nutter indeed. It's nauseating to have read a few of the hundred "think pieces" about how Canada. Has. Changed. Forever.

oh I know, it is ridiculous

PKForce81
10-23-2014, 03:15 PM
I haven't been paying as much attention to those who committed the crimes(felt more sad about the soldier that died) but i thought it was some French guy who converted to Islam recently that did this? What does that have to do with a peaceful religion(if you know anything about real Islam that is)?. Seems pretty ignorant to me. It's pretty obvious some guy who was nuts wanted to find a way to go out in a big way and so this was the way for him...

worm
10-23-2014, 03:22 PM
Your pop psychology is pretty close to the truth. Outsiders are going to drift inside something that gives their life purpose. Some people find meaning in heroin or forumice, others find it in a terrorist group.

was getting pretty close to finding a new cult this morning....

worm
10-23-2014, 03:25 PM
and do what, exactly?

more canadian die from eating hot dogs

WE ARE AT WAR!!!!!

Pronger84
10-23-2014, 03:29 PM
Yup this is war, and here in Kingston the military are fearing for their families safety. Its to the point where many military personell have come into Service Ontario the other day to have their vet plates removed because they didn't want to become a target, two of them who are built like tanbks were in tears worrying about what would happen to their families if an attack were to go down.... this is a very seriouss situation thats occuring and isn't getting any better any time soon.

worm
10-23-2014, 03:34 PM
Muslim runs down and kills a soldier with a car. Muslim kills a ceremonial guard and storms Parliament buildings. 18 Muslims arrested for plotting to behead the Prime Minister.

Can we just take a second and call it for what it is? Other faiths aren't committing these acts. It's Muslims doing it in the name of Islam. Quit making excuses.

Did either of them say they are killing in the name? Or is that why they did it?

Because if not then the faith is irrelevant.

Just like it didnt matter Travis Baumgartner was christian.

worm
10-23-2014, 03:35 PM
Yup this is war, and here in Kingston the military are fearing for their families safety. Its to the point where many military personell have come into Service Ontario the other day to have their vet plates removed because they didn't want to become a target, two of them who are built like tanbks were in tears worrying about what would happen to their families if an attack were to go down.... this is a very seriouss situation thats occuring and isn't getting any better any time soon.

Any evidence that the military was the target here?

Pronger84
10-23-2014, 03:38 PM
Any evidence that the military was the target here?

Well if you look at the two incidents, 3 miltiary soliders were attacked in the past week. I'm not saying there is or isnt going to be more threats on Canada's military, I'm just saying that some of the military here are fearful and trying to be proative for their famiies sake.

How do I know this? My Mom works at one of the Serivce Ontarios' here and she dealt with multiple soldiers yesterday afternoon.

LeafGm
10-23-2014, 03:39 PM
Who said anything about "fvcking Muslims" - but facts are the facts. I don't care about what happened in the distant past regarding Christian violence, I care about what is happening today in the Western world.

And radical political Islam is currently our largest security issue.
Yeah, it is. But concerning "other faiths aren't committing these acts", let's just look at today, and fairly recent history---even forgetting the barrel of laughs that was the Middle Ages.

Being gay in 85% Christian Uganda today is punishable by death. In the 80% Christian Central African Republic, Christian militants are slaughering Islamic civilians. In India, numerous Christian militant groups in Nagaland are responsible for enthic clensing of minority non-Christian tribes. In the United States in the past 15-20 years, Christian anti-abortion activists are responsible for numerous murders, assaults and firebombings. Three years ago in Norway, Anders Behring Breivik slaughtered 77 people, most of whom were teenagers, in the name of Christianity. 15-20 years ago, Christians in Ireland were bombing and murdering each other in the name of their religion. 70 years ago, Christian Germany murdered six million Jews and millions of other civilians. 150 years ago, our neighbours to the south used Christianity to justify the enslavement, torture and murder of anyone who happened to have dark skin.

So, in summary, absolutely, let's focus on the small minority of Muslims that espouse the toxic ideology that gives birth to human garbage like ISIS. But let's also maybe cool it with the "my dad's fairy tale is better than your dad's fairy tale" BS. Unless, as a Christian, you want to take responsibility for your bretheren around the world.

worm
10-23-2014, 03:40 PM
The first one appears to be the target. But those soldiers are far more likely to be killed by somebody they know then a random wacko.

But yesterday is was probably pretty scary when it appears that soldiers were targeted a few days in a row.

zeke
10-23-2014, 03:48 PM
Did either of them say they are killing in the name? Or is that why they did it?

Because if not then the faith is irrelevant.

Just like it didnt matter Travis Baumgartner was christian.

well, I don't think there's much doubt about it in this case. this guy was an ISIS wannabe.

worm
10-23-2014, 03:57 PM
well, I don't think there's much doubt about it in this case. this guy was an ISIS wannabe.

Fair enough. What about the car guy?

Got a link? I have only heard that he recent converted (not like he was an upstanding guy before that).

Pronger84
10-23-2014, 04:10 PM
On global news last night they showed a pic of the guy on Isis Twitter account, it's since been suspended so it can't be accessed.

Just to clarify the pic was of the deceased shooter from yesterday.

Leafovic
10-23-2014, 04:18 PM
Reza Aslan really put it best few days back. Islam or religion itself is just another ideology, no different than nationalism, socialism, or atheism, and people have justified violence in the name of all of these ideologies. So if you are free from all ideology, let us know. As he said religion is just a language, a common one because the Koran, like all religious texts, really just present stories of the human condition (humans as peaceful and moral, but humans also as violent and immoral). So you really shouldn't take any religious text to be inherently good or bad, it is just a language. Beliefs in themselves are not the danger, and people should be able to believe anything they want (as crazy as it may be), but when they turn that into violent action, then we have the responsibility and right to react.

When people choose to highlight or practice the violent portion, they are not doing what 99% of people do. First, the majority of believers understand that the writings are contextual. Second, they don't believe in the literal interpretation. Heck, if you spoke to people who said they took it literally, you would quickly learn that they don't. And further, they don't actually get their beliefs from the book itself, they pick and choose based on their pre-concieved notions. So nobody has the exact same beliefs.

worm
10-23-2014, 04:35 PM
i think humanity has evolved enough to get rid of religion

Leafovic
10-23-2014, 04:45 PM
That is a very specific statement you made there. Evolved how?
And a pretty fundamentalist statement. Are you going to set up the concentration camps?


i think humanity has evolved enough to get rid of religion

Pronger84
10-23-2014, 04:48 PM
According to cp24 bibeau wasn't on the Rcmps watchlist but he did spend time in an Ottawa homless shelter and struggled with drug addiction and was bitter he couldn't obtain a passport so he could leave the country.

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 04:48 PM
Islam or religion itself is just another ideology, no different than nationalism, socialism, or atheism, and people have justified violence in the name of all of these ideologies.



Political Islam ideology espouse aggressive and repressive expansion.





When people choose to highlight or practice the violent portion, they are not doing what 99% of people do. First, the majority of believers understand that the writings are contextual. Second, they don't believe in the literal interpretation.



What is "contextual" of living under subjugating Sharia Law?

Deckie007
10-23-2014, 04:50 PM
i think humanity has evolved enough to get rid of religion

I disagree. We are not as far removed from the sister raping primates we once were. Many people still need it.

Leafovic
10-23-2014, 04:55 PM
Well the Islamic world is not just Saudi Arabia or Iran, it is Indonesia, Albania, Bosnia, Turkey.
As I said, religion is just a language, if people choose to just use swear words, you don't blame the language, you blame the person using the words.


What is "contextual" of living under subjugating Sharia Law?

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 04:56 PM
Yeah, it is. But concerning "other faiths aren't committing these acts", let's just look at today, and fairly recent history---even forgetting the barrel of laughs that was the Middle Ages.

Being gay in 85% Christian Uganda today is punishable by death. In the 80% Christian Central African Republic, Christian militants are slaughering Islamic civilians. In India, numerous Christian militant groups in Nagaland are responsible for enthic clensing of minority non-Christian tribes. In the United States in the past 15-20 years, Christian anti-abortion activists are responsible for numerous murders, assaults and firebombings. Three years ago in Norway, Anders Behring Breivik slaughtered 77 people, most of whom were teenagers, in the name of Christianity. 15-20 years ago, Christians in Ireland were bombing and murdering each other in the name of their religion. 70 years ago, Christian Germany murdered six million Jews and millions of other civilians. 150 years ago, our neighbours to the south used Christianity to justify the enslavement, torture and murder of anyone who happened to have dark skin.

So, in summary, absolutely, let's focus on the small minority of Muslims that espouse the toxic ideology that gives birth to human garbage like ISIS. But let's also maybe cool it with the "my dad's fairy tale is better than your dad's fairy tale" BS. Unless, as a Christian, you want to take responsibility for your bretheren around the world.

While the past actions of political Christianity are true, we have also gone to great lengths in our Western society to divide it from simple worship, as well as deny and demonize the political power of Christianity.

We and mostly THEY need to do the same with Islam.

worm
10-23-2014, 04:58 PM
I disagree. We are not as far removed from the sister raping primates we once were. Many people still need it.

that lady that was arrested for having 6 dead babies in a storage unit agrees with me....so....

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 05:01 PM
Well the Islamic world is not just Saudi Arabia or Iran, it is Indonesia, Albania, Bosnia, Turkey.
As I said, religion is just a language, if people choose to just use swear words, you don't blame the language, you blame the person using the words.

All ideologies are "just a language". "It's just a language" that also governs the core values of our society. And it's "just a language" that mutilates young woman. It's "just a language" that drives ISIS.

Leafovic
10-23-2014, 05:05 PM
All ideologies are "just a language". "It's just a language" that also governs the core values of our society. And it's "just a language" that mutilates young woman. It's "just a language" that drives ISIS.



Already answered in my initial post:

"As he said religion is just a language, a common one because the Koran, like all religious texts, really just present stories of the human condition (humans as peaceful and moral, but humans also as violent and immoral). So you really shouldn't take any religious text to be inherently good or bad, it is just a language. "

Leafovic
10-23-2014, 05:16 PM
Political leaders who have their own agendas will select and focus on the "bad language". Select is the key word. The religious texts (the language) are simply stories written about the human condition, the writings speak of both violence and immorality but also peace and morality. So it isn't accurate to suggest that Islam promotes violence, it represents the human condition if you read the text in its totality, and that is why it is a mode of thought that many choose to still associate with. The fact that some individuals choose to focus on the violence is not surprising, because no person actually accepts a text fully, they accept the general symbolism, but then insert their own pre-conceived notions and take what they like and throw out what they dont.

anne25
10-23-2014, 05:19 PM
R.C.M.P. Security footage of yesterdays events.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/rcmp-show-dramatic-security-video-of-gunman-behind-ottawa-shootings-1.2068134

SundinsTooth
10-23-2014, 05:27 PM
The detailed information that our police release is astonishing. Talk about being open with information.

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 05:37 PM
Political leaders who have their own agendas will select and focus on the "bad language". Select is the key word. The religious texts (the language) are simply stories written about the human condition, the writings speak of both violence and immorality but also peace and morality. So it isn't accurate to suggest that Islam promotes violence, it represents the human condition if you read the text in its totality, and that is why it is a mode of thought that many choose to still associate with. The fact that some individuals choose to focus on the violence is not surprising, because no person actually accepts a text fully, they accept the general symbolism, but then insert their own pre-conceived notions and take what they like and throw out what they dont.

Some individual? Really?

Pew Research....


Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.

15% of Muslims in Turkey support suicide bombings (also 11% in Kosovo, 26% in Malaysia and 26% in Bangladesh).

At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).

8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).

26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

http://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf



World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

There are plenty more polls that destroys the narrative as "some individuals".

Leafovic
10-23-2014, 05:40 PM
Reza also addresses those Pew Polls:

"REZA ASLAN: The second number is a troubling poll result. The first one, you have to understand that that very same poll showed that of that 70-something percent there was a massive diversity of views of what they even meant by Sharia. We're talking about marriage and divorce laws, inheritance laws, as well as penal laws.

But you're right. 64% wanting the death penalty for converts out of Islam is incredibly frightening until you read the rest of the poll where 75% of Egyptians also wanted religious freedom. If that sounds like a contradiction, it is because religion and religious-lived experience is full of contradictions. So, 64% wanting the death penalty, that's scary. But, of course, in neighboring Tunisia, it's about 12%. In, let's say Lebanon, it's 1 in 6. In Turkey, it's 5%.

The larger issue is can you look at a scary poll about a place like Egypt, the largest Arab country in the world, and use that to make some sort of broad generalizations about the lived experience of 1.6 billion Muslims all around the world? You can't. And here's the problem. What I think Maher and Harris are getting at is that they want to condemn beliefs.

Frankly, look, I'm going to be honest with you. If you are some kind of ultra orthodox Muslim who believes every word of the Koran is literal and that gays are going to hell and anyone who converts should be killed. I don't really have a problem with you, as long as it's just your belief. I don't care what you believe."

Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/10/13/reza_aslan_on_bigoted_attack_on_islam_we_need_to_c ondemn_actions_not_beliefs.html

Bleedsblue&white
10-23-2014, 06:04 PM
Fair enough. What about the car guy?



The car guy's parents called the police weeks before he did it. They were worried about his behavior, what he was saying, and yes, they told the cops he talked about joining ISIS, wanted to go to Syria to fight I think.

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 06:48 PM
Reza also addresses those Pew Polls:



The false narrative you are selling as the insegnificance of "some individual" is not supported by that link.

Let's make something clear here. I nor any just minded person has issued with anyone peacefully practicing their religious beliefs. The issue is political Islam and it's inherent subjugative, aggressive, intolerent ideology. Tolerating or ignoring it's nature, or giving cover to those who espouse violence in its name as some insignificant aberent action is not going to serve us or Muslims who want to live in peace.

Again, as I said before, POLITICAL Islam must go down the route of political Christianity. It must be seperated from religious belief, derided, demonized and declawed.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
10-23-2014, 06:55 PM
The false narrative you are selling as the insegnificance of "some individual" is not supported by that link.

Let's make something clear here. I nor any just minded person has issued with anyone peacefully practicing their religious beliefs. The issue is political Islam and it's inherent subjugative, aggressive, intolerent ideology. Tolerating or ignoring it's nature, or giving cover to those who espouse violence in its name as some insignificant aberent action is not going to serve us or Muslims who want to live in peace.

Again, as I said before, POLITICAL Islam must go down the route of political Christianity. It must be seperated from religious belief, derided, demonized and declawed.

+1

zeke
10-23-2014, 07:16 PM
The false narrative you are selling as the insegnificance of "some individual" is not supported by that link.

Let's make something clear here. I nor any just minded person has issued with anyone peacefully practicing their religious beliefs. The issue is political Islam and it's inherent subjugative, aggressive, intolerent ideology. Tolerating or ignoring it's nature, or giving cover to those who espouse violence in its name as some insignificant aberent action is not going to serve us or Muslims who want to live in peace.

Again, as I said before, POLITICAL Islam must go down the route of political Christianity. It must be seperated from religious belief, derided, demonized and declawed.

do you really think this ******* was a political activist, though?

Leafovic
10-23-2014, 07:21 PM
Again, as I said before, POLITICAL Islam must go down the route of political Christianity. It must be seperated from religious belief, derided, demonized and declawed.

Sure. I don't see what there is to disagree about there.

Religions are constantly changing with the times, and people give them new interpretations. Is Islam exactly the same as it was hundreds of years ago? No. You are absolutley right in saying that SOME nations who call them self Islamic are not practicing to our worldly sensibilties. But I don't see what this has to do with Islam as a whole.

lecoqsportif
10-23-2014, 07:28 PM
i think humanity has evolved enough to get rid of religion

And yet religion is viewed in some circles as an evolutionary response to uncertainty.

It's a knee slapper.

lecoqsportif
10-23-2014, 07:38 PM
There is a violent, intolerant narrative to Christian fundamentalist extremism and any number of chauvinst ideologies that masquerade as religion. The key difference in the west, ironically, is the power of secular liberal democracy and wealth in a huge middle class. However, in an era where economic insecurity is rising sharply and could be potentially entrenched, this apparent progress can easily be eroded. Remember, it was the "Christians" who went completely bananas and killed millions of people in the 1940s. It is foolish to think any scenario is permanent.

blacksheep
10-23-2014, 07:42 PM
While the past actions of political Christianity are true, we have also gone to great lengths in our Western society to divide it from simple worship, as well as deny and demonize the political power of Christianity.

We and mostly THEY need to do the same with Islam.

Yes, great lengths. I mean, there hasn't been a Catholic Priest convicted of molesting children in at least six months...

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 07:56 PM
do you really think this ******* was a political activist, though?

Can we use any metrics of rational thought to someone who adopts and executes such an act?

BeLeafer
10-23-2014, 08:01 PM
The only sensible thing I've read in any Canadian media over the past 36 hours ...



We didn’t lose our innocence. We never had it: Salutin
The idea that the events in Ottawa have somehow taken our innocence ignores Canada’s history and distorts the conversation about how to respond.

By: Rick Salutin Columnist, Published on Thu Oct 23 2014

After Wednesday’s events in Ottawa, I want to comment on one version or account (yes, the dread “narrative”) which was dominant in the reporting. It’s the “unprecedented chaos, lost our virginity/innocence, never gonna be the same, demise of Canada as a Peaceable Kingdom” rendering.

The Peaceable Kingdom isn’t even a Canadian phrase. It was used by U.S. Quakers in the 19th century. Literary critic Northrop Frye applied it here in the 1960s and it was popularized by Toronto historian and city councillor William Kilbourn. When I challenged him on its usage, he scoffed, “Don’t you recognize irony, man?” It was sarcastic, or at best an aspiration far from reality.

Canada fought through two world wars, largely as a loyal British adjutant. Our troops were known for violence and fierceness — like our hockey. There were strong racist strains in Canada toward French-Canadians and native peoples; and racist, “none is too many” immigration policies. Some of that was challenged in the 1960s (hence Kilbourn’s “man”) but in the midst of it came a far more severe episode of “homegrown terrorism”: the 1970 FLQ crisis. Ottawa was occupied by troops in tanks. In Quebec hundreds were thrown in jail without charges. Public figures were kidnapped and one was murdered. What virginity?

...

What I find so irritating about the innocence/virginity narrative, aside from its ignorance, is how it subverts the debate we should be having on where to go now. Stephen Harper wants to reverse the course of the last 50 years and that’s his right. Nothing is irreversible. He restored the “Royal” to the military, scorned the UN, rubbished international initiatives like Kyoto and signed up as an enthusiastic subaltern for imperial ventures led by the U.S. and NATO. But the innocence narrative implies that the alternative to Harper isn’t a realistic set of policies; it’s a natural state like childhood which must be inevitably overcome. Those who peddle the narrative aid that obfuscation.

They also help conceal the real challenges of Wednesday’s events. Like what? All the party leaders were “defiant” and said Canada won’t be intimidated. I don’t even know what that means. Is there a place you go to sign up as intimidated? These aren’t nation-threatening entities. They’re criminals committing crimes. Calling it a state of war (another of the week’s tropes) gives them a ridiculous dignity. You can’t fight an actual war against criminals. It’s an intelligence-policing situation, as was 9/11, which the U.S. used as an excuse for real wars that made the situation massively more dire than it needed to be.

So where’s that Canadian innocence when we need it? Precisely among the police, I’d say. The Montreal cops who stopped a killer with only his death. The Ottawa cops. And sergeant-at-arms Kevin Vickers, whose policing career seems to personify firm peaceableness. Call them virginal if you want. They are peace officers and they appeared to do it well. Peacekeeping was never about non-violence. It’s about priorities, and minimizing the damage.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/10/23/we_didnt_lose_our_innocence_we_never_had_it_saluti n.html

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 08:01 PM
There is a violent, intolerant narrative to Christian fundamentalist extremism and any number of chauvinst ideologies that masquerade as religion. The key difference in the west, ironically, is the power of secular liberal democracy and wealth in a huge middle class. However, in an era where economic insecurity is rising sharply and could be potentially entrenched, this apparent progress can easily be eroded. Remember, it was the "Christians" who went completely bananas and killed millions of people in the 1940s. It is foolish to think any scenario is permanent.

Seperate the coincidental from relgious political aspirations. No one was fighting to spread and subjugate people in the name of Christianity.

HabsAddict
10-23-2014, 08:04 PM
Yes, great lengths. I mean, there hasn't been a Catholic Priest convicted of molesting children in at least six months...

Straw argument.

It has nothing to do with religious politcal aspirations of dominance and control.