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View Full Version : Daniel Winnik Breakout Year



MindzEye
11-02-2014, 01:55 PM
Career - 26 pt pace
Leafs - 52 pt pace


Breakout Year.


Discuss

BeLeafer
11-02-2014, 01:59 PM
11 game anomaly. He's had the same kind of ice time most of his career. Not to crap on him, as he's a solid pickup. But he'll regress to his mean.

Deckie007
11-02-2014, 02:28 PM
I like him, but not buying it. He's getting a nice opportunity and making the most of it, but the talent level isn't there.

Metalleaf
11-02-2014, 02:34 PM
If he continues averaging 15/16 minutes he'll set a new career high in points but I don't think he will reach 50. Maybe 35-40.

zeke
11-02-2014, 02:41 PM
Still can't believe we got Winnik for a song. This guy was tied for 4th in forward icetime for the 1st place Ducks last year, and was a 30+pt pace guy without PP time.

zeke
11-02-2014, 02:43 PM
If he continues averaging 15/16 minutes he'll set a new career high in points but I don't think he will reach 50. Maybe 35-40.

These minutes aren't anything new for Winnik.

14-15 (TOR): 16:24
13-14 (ANA): 15:23
12-13 (ANA): 16:50
11-12 (COL/SJS): 16:42
10-11 (COL): 16:33
09-10 (PHX): 13:09
08-09 (PHX): 13:04
07-08 (PHX): 14:06


it's amazing how under the radar this guy was when we signed him. those were good teams he was getting those minutes for for the most part.

Metalleaf
11-02-2014, 02:45 PM
Yeah, Winnik is Gordie Howe compared to McClement.

LeafGm
11-02-2014, 02:45 PM
He's scored 10+ goals a couple of times in his career and has hit the 30 point plateau, so while he's not a highly skilled offensive player, he doesn't have stone hands either.

And good on him for how he's performed thus far. He's played every forward position for us already, and he's added a needed dimension to both the Lupul/Kadri and Kessel/Kadri lines. If he sticks as a "glue guy" on one of our top two lines (particularly if he sticks with Phil), I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in the 10-15 goal/35-40 point range, which would be a career high for him.

It also bears repeating that him, Komarov and Santorelli have been a huge upgrade on our "depth" from last year. And speaking of our depth from last year:

Dave Bolland: GP 4, G 0, A 0 Pts 0, PIM 4

...and the Panthers got that for only $1.35M less than Komarov, Santorelli, Winnik and Booth will make combined this year.

MindzEye
11-02-2014, 03:00 PM
Breakout Year

Winnik > Hoglund

Metalleaf
11-02-2014, 03:03 PM
Yeah if Winnik scores 29 goals.

BeLeafer
11-02-2014, 03:42 PM
Breakout Year

Winnik > Hoglund

Have you had the water tested recently?

Leafin'
11-02-2014, 03:43 PM
Next year... "xxxx GM has signed Daniel Winnik to a 5 year 25 million deal"

MindzEye
11-02-2014, 03:50 PM
Have you had the water tested recently?

Nope, but it tastes like Vodka and I didn't want to spoil it for others.

BeLeafer
11-02-2014, 03:52 PM
Nope, but it tastes like Vodka and I didn't want to spoil it for others.

Could be a petroleum byproduct.

zeke
11-02-2014, 03:54 PM
Next year... "xxxx GM has signed Daniel Winnik to a 5 year 25 million deal"

Here's something the Leafs should really take advantage of ---- there are plenty of fringe Free Agents like Winnik last year who feel overlooked, and when they don't get what they want will gladly take the 1yr showcase for cheap on the league's biggest stage in the hopes of earning a big contract the next year.

Leafin'
11-02-2014, 04:06 PM
Here's something the Leafs should really take advantage of ---- there are plenty of fringe Free Agents like Winnik last year who feel overlooked, and when they don't get what they want will gladly take the 1yr showcase for cheap on the league's biggest stage in the hopes of earning a big contract the next year.

One thing to keep in mind, though may or not be correct:

Is that with the Leafs not looking like an overly strong team in recent years, guys that didn't get the deals they were looking for could sign with the Leafs with the belief that that would get good playing time as the competition level wouldn't be that high for guys fighting for their job.

Take for instance Mason Raymond last year, who was his competition in the top 9? Or who was competing for a spot in the top 9? We didn't have many prospects ready for the show and Raymond would have an easier road for more minutes and larger role.

With the Leafs getting better(hopefully), the prospect of guys coming in here for cheap contracts to showcase might not be available as before.

Or am i wrong here? I just don't think guys would come here if they didn't have a good chance to get minutes and guys that they think they can beat out.

zeke
11-02-2014, 04:11 PM
True, but if we continually promise that same spot to a new cheap guy every year - the same spot occupied by Raymond, Winnik, Bolland, Santo, etc - then they can see that the opportunity is there.

If we don't stay strong, and end up paying $3-4m for Santo and Winnik in the offseason because they played so well last year, its an opportunity missed, imo.

BeLeafer
11-02-2014, 04:14 PM
The problem with this theory/approach is that it assumes that you'll continually find guys like Winnik, Santorelli and Raymond (which I regard as significantly less valuable of the three).

Sometimes you get a Jay McClement and it kinda ****s things up.

Leafin'
11-02-2014, 04:14 PM
Oh i agree, f*ck them if they want those deals.

I like the Chicago way of team development. They've chosen who to keep as their "core", and recycled the rest. Though, that core is excellent.

Leafin'
11-02-2014, 04:17 PM
McClement wasn't that bad a player. For some reason Carlyle had a boner for the guy and played him in situations he shouldn't have. This was a guy on the 4th line that was limited offensively. nothing wrong with a guy like that. When you start playing him more minutes, thats when we saw the McClement we didn't like.

I recall McClement was a pretty solid player in our playoff year.

zeke
11-02-2014, 04:20 PM
I think there are good ones available every single year. and lots of them.

You just need good scouting.

zeke
11-02-2014, 04:21 PM
As for McClement - thing with him is that he was always on bad teams, and was always dumped as soon as that team actually became good. That shoulda been a warning sign.

Wayward DP
11-02-2014, 09:53 PM
Didn't Montana have a huuuuuge McClement boner?

Winnik's just a really good all around hockey player. He can do a little bit of everything well enough. Great great great hockey IQ, smart with the puck, physical. Really looking like a steal. Think he's best suited on a 3rd line, but for now he's been alright on the top two.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-02-2014, 10:00 PM
Didn't Montana have a huuuuuge McClement boner?



Impossible, Montana has no human emotion.

Wayward DP
11-02-2014, 10:03 PM
Impossible, Montana has no human emotion.

You can have emotionless boners?

Leafin'
11-03-2014, 01:08 AM
I recall there were a few people that really loved McClement 2 years ago. I don't care to go back and dig up posts, but i know there were a few. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same people talking shit now.

Pronger84
11-03-2014, 01:55 AM
McClement wasn't that bad a player. For some reason Carlyle had a boner for the guy and played him in situations he shouldn't have. This was a guy on the 4th line that was limited offensively. nothing wrong with a guy like that. When you start playing him more minutes, thats when we saw the McClement we didn't like.

I recall McClement was a pretty solid player in our playoff year.

This, why we didn't resign him is beyond me! The problem last year wasn't mcclement but instead carlyle putting him constantly in a positional fail, that was the problem. Mcclement is a solid 4th line guy who you can put out there on late in the dying minute of a game to protect a lead, someone who can play on the top ok unit but when you start putting him on the 3rd line, out there whrn were down a goal or even in overtime that's just blatant stupidity and asking for trouble.

Mcclement wanted to come back here, and he would have had the leafs offered him a contract but clearly management wasn't interested in it... Oh well it is what is.

Metalleaf
11-03-2014, 02:27 AM
McClement looks fantastic in Carolina...

Wayward DP
11-03-2014, 05:09 AM
McClement's complete lack of any sort of hands or offensive instincts makes him a real handicap on anything other than a fourth line.

Pronger84
11-03-2014, 05:16 AM
McClement's complete lack of any sort of hands or offensive instincts makes him a real handicap on anything other than a fourth line.

Yup, which is why he struggled last year... Carlyle put him in a no win situation last year. It'd be like throwing someone who can't swim into the Rapids and expect them to safely make it to shore and then acting perplexed they drowned 30 seconds after being thrown in the water.

Pronger84
11-03-2014, 05:18 AM
Yeah if Winnik scores 29 goals.

If he plays with Kessel the rest of the way it is possible.

Wayward DP
11-03-2014, 05:19 AM
Yup, which is why he struggled last year... Carlyle put him in a no win situation last year. It'd be like throwing someone who can't swim into the Rapids and expect them to safely make it to shore and then acting perplexed they drowned 30 seconds after being thrown in the water.

Yeah, but it also doesn't make sense to retain a UFA when you know that their upside is 'adequate fourth liner' at best. Guys like Booth, Winnik, Santo, and Uncle Leo are reliable third liners (well hopefully for Booth at least) who can be bumped up in the lineup and hold their own. Guys like that are a much better use of cap space and UFA money than players like McClement.

Pronger84
11-03-2014, 05:25 AM
Yeah, but it also doesn't make sense to retain a UFA when you know that their upside is 'adequate fourth liner' at best. Guys like Booth, Winnik, Santo, and Uncle Leo are reliable third liners (well hopefully for Booth at least) who can be bumped up in the lineup and hold their own. Guys like that are a much better use of cap space and UFA money than players like McClement.

Mcclements only making just over 1m this season, in terms of cap space it's not that bad and not a detriment to a team to pay a 4th liner that kind of dough. Mcclement at e/s is a 4th liner who should play no higher up, but he also is above average on faceoffs which comes in handy late in the game to preserve a lead, not to mention a decent pk'er, easily the dude is worth 1-1.5 a season, wouldn't go much higher then that.

Carlye ****ed the pooch when he kept playing him last year on the 3rd line and tossing him out there in ot but that's more of a reflection on Carlyles stupidity then it is as mcclement as a player.

MindzEye
11-03-2014, 09:15 AM
McClement is a possession lead weight on any line he's put on.

He's a guy who looks really good when he's chasing the puck around, but that's all he really does is chase the puck around.

zeke
11-03-2014, 09:16 AM
McClement looks fantastic in Carolina...

mcClement playing 17 minutes a night is the perfect explanation of why they're in last place.

oh, and in case you're wondering - yes, he's pretty much the worst possession player on their team this year, in addition to being his usual useless self offensively.

KingTucker
11-03-2014, 11:55 PM
Nice aritcle by Siegel here:

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/siegel-winnik-showing-good-value-versatility-early-for-leafs-1.124687

"Not only is he tied for third in team scoring (despite zero power-play time), boasting strong possession numbers and providing a forceful presence on the penalty kill, but he’s been on the ice for just a single even-strength goal against in more than 141 minutes – some of that no doubt attributed to the luck of a .985 on-ice save percentage.

"Big, strong and energetic up the ice and in the corners, Winnik helped drive the play early alongside Nazem Kadri and Joffrey Lupul before taking the spot of the injured Lupul with Kadri and Phil Kessel more recently.

(...)

"Sacco paired him with the team's teenage second round pick, Ryan O’Reilly – whom Winnik believes is still “really underrated” – and the two hit it off. Winnik was suddenly finding more of an offensive game, chipping in with 11 goals in his first season with the Avs – whom the Leafs will visit on Thursday."

hockeylover
11-03-2014, 11:58 PM
Mcclements only making just over 1m this season, in terms of cap space it's not that bad and not a detriment to a team to pay a 4th liner that kind of dough. Mcclement at e/s is a 4th liner who should play no higher up, but he also is above average on faceoffs which comes in handy late in the game to preserve a lead, not to mention a decent pk'er, easily the dude is worth 1-1.5 a season, wouldn't go much higher then that.

Carlye ****ed the pooch when he kept playing him last year on the 3rd line and tossing him out there in ot but that's more of a reflection on Carlyles stupidity then it is as mcclement as a player.

If one day I find out that Pronger is actually my brother posting, it would not shock me. They have eerily similar, terrible hockey opinions.

Deckie007
11-04-2014, 10:26 AM
I've seen a picture of Pronger, there is no way you came from the same gene pool. Or he's the unluckiest bastard in the world.

LeafOfFaith
11-04-2014, 11:52 AM
Gotta give it up. Ever since I ragged on Winnik being in the top 6, he's played great.

zeke
11-04-2014, 12:06 PM
Winnik was tied in 4th in forward icetime for a cup contender last year.

Preston_Mizzi
11-04-2014, 01:08 PM
Didn't Montana have a huuuuuge McClement boner?


To be fair, he also had a huuuuuuge Lebda boner..