PDA

View Full Version : GDT: Rangers at Leafs, 7 PM



BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 02:51 PM
Rangers have been pretty leaky so far. Unlikely we'll get another swiss cheese performance from Lundqvist though.

Leafs have call up Lievo ... sick of Frattin or is Winnik hurt?

Let's see what kind of Magic Randy has in store for us tonight. He often saves his best for HNIC.

number17
11-08-2014, 02:52 PM
Winnik is out, Frattin on 4th line and Leibniz will play wing on kadri line.

leaffan2005
11-08-2014, 02:57 PM
I will be there tonight so looking to bring some positive mojo for the boys.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/34294/610x.jpg

BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 03:01 PM
An original six showdown ... err, or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQeL7EUcsWs

BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 03:05 PM
Winnik is out, Frattin on 4th line and Leibniz will play wing on kadri line.

Wow, that line should come up with some awesome deductions.

CH1
11-08-2014, 03:49 PM
An original six showdown ... err, or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQeL7EUcsWs


Keith O. must be running out of topics.

Everyone understands the Original 6 as the teams that existed before steady and massive NHL expansion. As if other sports don't engage in marketing that deviates from history.

Killer93
11-08-2014, 03:52 PM
Blowout; 5-1 Rangers

BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 03:53 PM
Apparently, Talbot is in nets for the Rangers tonight.

Reason for optimism ...

Talbot: .899
Lundqvist: .901

CaptainBolduke
11-08-2014, 05:18 PM
Playing a weak team is a good opportunity for the Rangers to get their backup some work. It's the right call.

BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 05:21 PM
heh, got old Bolduke in a tither.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 05:26 PM
Blowout; 5-1 Rangers

I hope not.

zeke
11-08-2014, 05:55 PM
Again, in addition to zonestart-adjusted 5v5 CLOSE (ccf%) i've added zonestart-adjusted 5v5 TOTAL (cf%). I still think the first number is best all things being equal but the 2nd number gives us a much bigger sample size to go off of, so it's probably similarly valuable at this point in the season.


Line 1

C T.Bozak (28): 13gms, 5gls, 12pts, 44.1ccf%, 44.7cf%, 19:17 (82gms, 32gls, 76pts) ---- 55.1fo%
C D.Brassard (27): 12gms, 5gls, 11pts, 55.3ccf%, 54.0cf%, 18:23 (82gms, 34gls, 75pts) ---- 56.2fo%

W P.Kessel (27): 13gms, 7gls, 18pts, 48.1ccf%, 47.4cf%, 18:52 (82gms, 44gls, 114pts)
W R.Nash (30): 12gms, 10gls, 13pts, 49.4ccf%, 50.8cf%, 17:22 (82gms, 66gls, 89pts)

W J.Vanriemsdyk (25): 13gms, 5gls, 9pts, 45.1ccf%, 44.1cf%, 20:00 (82gms, 32gls, 57pts)
W M.St.Louis (39): 12gms, 4gls, 10pts, 49.8ccf%, 49.1cf%, 18:57 (82gms, 27gls, 66pts)

Line 2

C N.Kadri (24): 13gms, 4gls, 5pts, 59.1ccf%, 56.9cf%, 16:20 (82gms, 25gls, 32pts) ---- 45.8fo%
C D.Stepan (24): ----

W R.Panik (23): 12gms, 2gls, 3pts, 46.2ccf%, 42.9cf%, 8:03 (82gms, 14gls, 21pts)
W C.Kreider (23): 12gms, 3gls, 8pts, 52.0ccf%, 50.6cf%, 14:26 (82gms, 21gls, 55pts)

W D.Clarkson (30): 13gms, 3gls, 4pts, 48.2ccf%, 48.7cf%, 15:58 (82gms, 19gls, 25pts)
W M.Zuccarello (27): 10gms, 1gls, 4pts, 55.7ccf%, 57.4cf%, 17:29 (82gms, 8gls, 33pts)

Line 3

C P.Holland (23): 13gms, 1gls, 3pts, 51.1ccf%, 45.4cf%, 11:05 (82gms, 6gls, 19pts) ---- 48.0fo%
C D.Moore (34): 12gms, 0gls, 3pts, 55.4ccf%, 55.5cf%, 15:38 (82gms, 0gls, 21pts) ---- 55.2fo%

W M.Santorelli (29): 13gms, 1gls, 6pts, 51.1ccf%, 51.3cf%, 12:45 (82gms, 6gls, 38pts)
W L.Stempniak (31): 12gms, 3gls, 5pts, 54.9ccf%, 53.7cf%, 15:53 (82gms, 22gls, 34pts)

W L.Komarov (27): 13gms, 0gls, 7pts, 50.0ccf%, 50.2cf%, 15:48 (82gms, 0gls, 44pts)
W C.Hagelin (26): 12gms, 2gls, 4pts, 50.0ccf%, 53.2cf%, 16:32 (82gms, 14gls, 27pts)

Line 4

C S.Carrick (22): 3gms, 0gls, 0pts, 33.3ccf%, 32.0cf%, 5:58 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts) ---- 55.6fo%
C K.Hayes (22): 9gms, 1gls, 2pts, 45.1ccf% 49.2cf%, 12:20 (82gms, 9gls, 18pts) ---- 26.3fo%

W J.Leivo (21): -----
W A.Duclair (19): 10gms, 1gls, 6pts, 51.7ccf%, 52.0cf%, 12:37 (82gms, 8gls, 49pts)

W M.Frattin (26): 5gms, 0gls, 0pts, 41.3ccf%, 44.2cf%, 7:20 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)
W T.Glass (31): 12gms, 0gls, 0pts, 48.0ccf%, 43.7cf%, 9:55 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)



Pair 1

D D.Phaneuf (29): 13gms, 1gls, 5pts, 52.3ccf%, 50.5cf%, 23:07 (82gms, 6gls, 32pts)
D M.Staal (27): 12gms, 0gls, 2pts, 48.1ccf%, 51.5cf%, 23:06 (82gms, 0gls, 14pts)

D C.Franson (27): 11gms, 2gls, 6pts, 54.3ccf%, 51.0cf%, 19:44 (82gms, 15gls, 45pts)
D K.Klein (30): 11gms, 2gls, 3pts, 53.7ccf%, 51.9cf%, 17:07 (82gms, 15gls, 22pts)

Pair 2

D R.Polak (28): 13gms, 1gls, 1pts, 52.1ccf%, 48.4cf%, 21:11 (82gms, 6gls, 6pts)
D D.Girardi (30): 12gms, 0gls, 3pts, 49.5ccf%, 48.5cf%, 26:25 (82gms, 0gls, 22pts)

D M.Rielly (20): 12gms, 1gls, 4pts, 53.2ccf%, 49.3cf%, 18:59 (82gms, 8gls, 30pts)
D C.Allen (24): 2gms, 0gls, 0pts, 43.5ccf%, 51.9cf%, 10:54 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)

Pair 3

D J.Gardiner (24): 11gms, 1gls, 2pts, 45.5ccf%, 48.2cf%, 18:57 (82gms, 8gls, 15pts)
D M.Hunwick (29): 10gms, 0gls, 5pts, 50.9ccf%, 52.4cf%, 18:09 (82gms, 0gls, 41pts)

D S.Robidas (37): 12gms, 0gls, 2pts, 45.3ccf%, 47.6cf%, 16:57 (82gms, 0gls, 14pts)
D M.Kostka (29): 4gms, 0gls, 1pts, 50.0ccf%, 51.5cf%, 16:41 (82gms, 0gls, 21pts)



Starting Goalies

G J.Bernier (26): 9gms, .916sv%
G C.Talbot (27): 3gms, .899sv%

Backup Goalies

G J.Reimer (26): 6gms, .925sv%
G H.Lundqvist (33): 10gms, .901sv%



Injured / Suspended

W J.Lupul (31): 9gms, 2gls, 3pts, 65.1ccf%, 59.8cf%, 18:09 (82gms, 18gls, 27pts)
W D.Winnik (29): 13gms, 1gls, 7pts, 60.0ccf%, 54.2cf%, 15:07 (82gms, 6gls, 44pts)
W B.Kozun (24): 5gms, 0gls, 1pts, 32.3ccf%, 36.2cf%, 8:54 (82gms, 0gls, 16pts)
W C.Ashton (23): 3gms, 0gls, 0pts, 56.3ccf%, 50.0cf%, 6:09 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)
W D.Booth (30): -----

D R.McDonagh (25): 10gms, 0gls, 3pts, 53.2ccf%, 52.6cf%, 23:33 (82gms, 0gls, 25pts)
D D.Boyle (38): 1gms, 0gls, 0pts, 47.4ccf%, 47.4cf%, 14:01 (82gms, 0gls, 0pts)
D J.Moore (24): 9gms, 0gls, 1pts, 61.0ccf%, 56.2cf%, 14:19 (82gms, 9gls, 27pts)

MyNameIsJonas
11-08-2014, 05:58 PM
i took the leafs on proline tonight.

rated
11-08-2014, 06:03 PM
Nice to see Leivo playing. Hope they dont dicker him around and give him 5 minutes of ice time tonight.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 06:20 PM
Leivo on the top line? Really?>

zeke
11-08-2014, 06:40 PM
nope, my bad.

Paul Hendrick ‏@HennyTweets 37s
Leaf lines:
jvr-bozak-kessel
panik-kadri-clarkson
komarov-holland-santorelli
leivo-carrick-frattin

and jake is in too.

i'll edit.

JackBurton
11-08-2014, 06:41 PM
An original six showdown ... err, or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQeL7EUcsWs

I liked it. A lot of research went into it. You rarely see that much work put in for a hockey piece in the US,

BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 07:02 PM
nope, my bad.

Paul Hendrick ‏@HennyTweets 37s
Leaf lines:
jvr-bozak-kessel
panik-kadri-clarkson
komarov-holland-santorelli
leivo-carrick-frattin

and jake is in too.

i'll edit.

**** you, Randy.

CRL
11-08-2014, 07:21 PM
we stink at these nights

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 07:23 PM
LOL nothing changes.

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 07:23 PM
Over and over and over we come out flat.

Volcanologist
11-08-2014, 07:24 PM
Nice screen by holland there.

Killer93
11-08-2014, 07:24 PM
**** sake

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 07:25 PM
Get a new coach in here so we can more accurately identify which players need to go. It's a bit of both but that has to be where we start, IMO.

ForeverTML
11-08-2014, 07:25 PM
piece of crap

Bleedsblue&white
11-08-2014, 07:26 PM
Wow. This is turning into a bit of a thing isn't it?

CRL
11-08-2014, 07:29 PM
is Randy sat Kardi already?

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 07:30 PM
Get a new coach in here so we can more accurately identify which players need to go. It's a bit of both but that has to be where we start, IMO.

I can't blame the coach for the players not skating. Sleep walking is not the coaches fault. Its too easy to blame Carlyle.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 07:31 PM
Floaters. THis team likes to float around the ice.

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 07:32 PM
I can't blame the coach for the players not skating. Sleep walking is not the coaches fault. Its too easy to blame Carlyle.

When something happens over and over and over and the coach is completely mystified as to why, there's a problem IMO.

CRL
11-08-2014, 07:35 PM
Leo gave us chance on PP

Bleedsblue&white
11-08-2014, 07:39 PM
Nice response, they've been fighting since that goal.

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 07:39 PM
Thanks Leo/kadri

Killer93
11-08-2014, 07:39 PM
Kessel is the anti-tank; without him this team is McDavid worthy

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 07:44 PM
When something happens over and over and over and the coach is completely mystified as to why, there's a problem IMO.

Dont't get me wrong, i want Carlyle gone as much as the next fan.

I just don't believe for a second that this team floating around aimlessly is all on the coach. It's giving them a free pass where they aren't deserving. There is a problem, you are correct.

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 07:49 PM
Dont't get me wrong, i want Carlyle gone as much as the next fan.

I just don't believe for a second that this team floating around aimlessly is all on the coach. It's giving them a free pass where they aren't deserving. There is a problem, you are correct.

I said it's both players and coach pretty clearly I thought. No free pass.

Volcanologist
11-08-2014, 07:49 PM
Kessel is the anti-tank; without him this team is McDavid worthy

Can't even imagine how bad we'd be, yeah.

CRL
11-08-2014, 07:51 PM
Uncle Leo is freaking awesome

Volcanologist
11-08-2014, 07:51 PM
Uncle Leo makes it happen. He's been a difference maker this year.

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 07:51 PM
Worth. Every. Penny.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 07:52 PM
OMG Leo. Holland with the great finish.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 07:53 PM
Robidas with an embarrassing giveaway.

ForeverTML
11-08-2014, 07:53 PM
komarov is becoming my favorite leaf....

CRL
11-08-2014, 07:54 PM
we need few more Leo in this team, what a guy

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 07:54 PM
We missed Uncle Leo so much last season.

CRL
11-08-2014, 07:54 PM
Robidas with an embarrassing giveaway.

44 or 51 will pay for that

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 07:54 PM
Leo Komarov Breakout Year

Someone start the thread...

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 07:58 PM
PANIKKKK

Killer93
11-08-2014, 08:00 PM
Holland injured

Bleedsblue&white
11-08-2014, 08:00 PM
All in all, good period. We got this.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 08:00 PM
Weak goal.

zeke
11-08-2014, 08:02 PM
great period, but really we should be up more than one.

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 08:02 PM
yeah...any time you hear the word "shoveled" and the guy who scored was 10 feet from the net, gotta look at the goalie.

BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 08:05 PM
Leafs should be up at least 2 goals if not for Dummy Dion and ref allowing a boarding on Santorelli. Oh, and Bernier being very sieve-like.

Good showing otherwise. Loving Leo, as always and Holland is really doing some great stuff since being uncemented from 4 minute duty.

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 08:07 PM
Giordano Norris?

Killer93
11-08-2014, 08:08 PM
Holland sent for x-rays

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 08:09 PM
Hope Don has to eat his words one day re: Ritchie/Nylander.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 08:11 PM
Giordano Norris?

We got the wrong defenseman when we traded with Calgary.

MyNameIsJonas
11-08-2014, 08:15 PM
Hope Don has to eat his words one day re: Ritchie/Nylander.

Nylander could win scoring titles, but if Ritchie outpunches him Don will think he was right all along.

zeke
11-08-2014, 08:18 PM
Bozak 6:30 (19:30) - 71%
kessel 6:24 (19:12)
vanryk 7:28 (22:24)

holland 6:41 (20:03) - 50%
komarov 6:12 (18:36)
santo 5:51 (17:33)

kadri 5:30 (16:30) - 67%
clarkson 5:05 (15:15)
panik 4:38 (13:54)

carrick 1:00 (3:00) - 67%
leivo 2:07 (6:21)
frattin 1:01 (3:03)


phaneuf 8:33 (25:39)
franson 6:02 (18:06)

robidas 7:11 (21:33)
gardiner 6:10 (18:30)

polak 7:03 (21:09)
rielly 5:01 (15:03)

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 08:20 PM
Phaneuf just got owned by Nash, and bailed out by Bernier. holy he makes it hard to cheer for him.

JackBurton
11-08-2014, 08:34 PM
LOL. Healy rips Kessel when he's attempting to compliment him.

JackBurton
11-08-2014, 08:34 PM
I wonder if Dion is hurt?

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 08:42 PM
2 things....

1) Jake Gardiner would win a Norris if he borrowed Carter Ashton's "inhaler"
2) David Clarkson is the worst passer of the puck I've ever seen in the show

MyNameIsJonas
11-08-2014, 08:52 PM
he doesn't get paid to pass.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 08:52 PM
HAHAHA. Robidas + Gardiner. HAHA

leaffan2005
11-08-2014, 08:53 PM
Dion is even shittier live.

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 08:53 PM
Wowwwww. This team.

Killer93
11-08-2014, 08:53 PM
Lmao our defense is comical

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 08:53 PM
Embarrassing.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 08:54 PM
Ugh.

Killer93
11-08-2014, 08:54 PM
Robidas signing may be one of the worst

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 08:54 PM
I expect us to crumble now. I'd be pleasantly surprised with any other outcome.

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 08:55 PM
Randy will blame Gardiner, but that was a shit pass by Robidas.

ForeverTML
11-08-2014, 08:55 PM
They both sucked, and have sucked for a while now. The defense is a joke.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 08:56 PM
Randy will blame Gardiner, but that was a shit pass by Robidas.

3x3. Embarrassing signing.

ForeverTML
11-08-2014, 08:58 PM
We're losing this one. Its inevitable. Folding like a cheap tent.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 09:02 PM
Phaneuf - Franson
Gardiner - Robidas
Rielly

Who plays defense? not sure how Randal can be at fault when the team can't defend. System or no system, there is no cure for floating.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 09:02 PM
I must be watching a different game...

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 09:21 PM
Did obstruction become legal when I wasn't paying attention? Rangers getting away with some dodgy shit on chip and chase plays.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 09:22 PM
Was just thinking that myself...

Killer93
11-08-2014, 09:23 PM
The Toronto Maple Leafs folks

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:24 PM
4-3 Rangers, Nash with the goal.

CRL
11-08-2014, 09:24 PM
we are 500 team at the best

hockeylover
11-08-2014, 09:25 PM
Not really sure how to discuss what I'm watching without being accused of whining...

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:26 PM
POLAK!

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 09:29 PM
Kadri is a pimp...

But I'd like to add that he's done nothing different than he's been doing all season, he's just been rewarded for it with assists for a chance.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:30 PM
Kadri is a pimp...

But I'd like to add that he's done nothing different than he's been doing all season, he's just been rewarded for it with assists for a chance.

Time to bench him.

WellPlayed
11-08-2014, 09:30 PM
Kadri separates his man from the puck in the defensive zone, takes the puck the full length of the ice into the offensive zone, and sets up the goal....and all these moron commentators can drone on about over and over again is was it or was it not tipped.

ForeverTML
11-08-2014, 09:32 PM
Not really sure how to discuss what I'm watching without being accused of whining...

This board will always have those people that cant seem to see this team for what it is and namecall others that do so....

soco22
11-08-2014, 09:39 PM
Why did Cbc feel the need to flash that we were heavily outshot last Saturday?

CRL
11-08-2014, 09:42 PM
Oh my

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 09:42 PM
LEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 09:43 PM
Our best player tonight.

Bleedsblue&white
11-08-2014, 09:43 PM
Most entertaining game I can remember in a long, long time.

CRL
11-08-2014, 09:43 PM
Our best player tonight.

by far

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:44 PM
Leo = heart and soul

Dion = osteoporosis

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 09:44 PM
Most entertaining game I can remember in a long, long time.

Yup, been a treat.

JackBurton
11-08-2014, 09:44 PM
Terrific play by Gardiner.

MyNameIsJonas
11-08-2014, 09:46 PM
I've been impressed with Panik, i think he might be more than a run of the mill 4th liner.

Either that or the other 4th liners are just awful by comparison.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:47 PM
Terrific play by Gardiner.

Bench him

Killer93
11-08-2014, 09:47 PM
Leo Komarov; worth every penny

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 09:48 PM
Leo Komorov is hockey's Chuck Norris. Got the 'stache to prove it too.

ForeverTML
11-08-2014, 09:49 PM
gdamnnn leo is killing it

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 09:49 PM
Clarkson still falls down a lot.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:49 PM
Christ Franson is an idiot.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 09:50 PM
Clarkson still falls down a lot.

Don't question his methods.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:51 PM
This lead announcer really loves his ship references.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 09:52 PM
Christ Franson is an idiot.

Got lucky there. Not sure why he didn't chip it off the glass or boards.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 09:54 PM
Hurray! Big win.

CRL
11-08-2014, 09:55 PM
Leo just handled 2 points to this team

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 09:56 PM
We're losing this one. Its inevitable. Folding like a cheap tent.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/38559588.jpg

Kritter
11-08-2014, 09:59 PM
Don't question his methods.


I lol'd

MindzEye
11-08-2014, 10:00 PM
Got lucky there. Not sure why he didn't chip it off the glass or boards.

Too easy. Cody Franson is about degree of difficulty.

zeke
11-08-2014, 10:00 PM
not great defensively but a deserved win. we out-corsi-closed a pretty good possession team there.

holland is really starting to flourish with real ice time, and that's not just about his goal. he was great all over the ice. panik looks better tooo...while the new fourth line sucked..it's almost like getting only two shifts a period makes it hard to get in the game ir something.

nice to see naz get rewarded with some assists. he was great today too, on both ends.

and leo's celebration was just the best. his offense is starting to look legit...like second line legit, not just third line.


in general the team is getting much better at responding when we get scored on - the leafs are starting to respond with anger instead of turtling. nice to see.

Volcanologist
11-08-2014, 10:01 PM
Got lucky there. Not sure why he didn't chip it off the glass or boards.

...because he's an idiot?

BeLeafer
11-08-2014, 10:03 PM
Leafs should have won that by 2 or 3 goals.

Great game. The Leafs defensive play was as good as it's been since Quinn was coach. Although there were a few maybe several really ugly plays, the Leafs limited the Rangers to few really dangerous plays ... especially in the third.

Leo Komarov is the best $3M cap hit ever.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 10:05 PM
The starts are concerning, but the fight they've shown after getting scored on has been pretty good. Nice win. Though i was shitting on them half way through the game for some atrocious defensive play by Gardiner, Robidas and Phaneuf.

CRL
11-08-2014, 10:06 PM
8 hits for Leo - nobody came even close in both teams

Volcanologist
11-08-2014, 10:07 PM
http://giant.gfycat.com/OccasionalNauticalDwarfmongoose.gif

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 10:07 PM
Dion continues to look like and play like shit.

MyNameIsJonas
11-08-2014, 10:12 PM
Dion continues to look like and play like shit.

It's one thing to criticize his play, but must you bust him on his general appearance?

JackBurton
11-08-2014, 10:15 PM
Dion is playing like crap. I dispute the "Advanced Stats" posted here to try to make him look like an elite stud.

zeke
11-08-2014, 10:19 PM
heh.

leaf fans are the best. a nice win like that and still trying to rip on the guy that went up against the hottest scorer in hockey every single shift.

just shut the **** up already.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 10:19 PM
Dion is playing like crap. I dispute the "Advanced Stats" posted here to try to make him look like an elite stud.

Its those same stats which allowed Kuly and Grabo to net monster deals in the off season, even though we all know the truth about them as players.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 10:26 PM
heh.

leaf fans are the best. a nice win like that and still trying to rip on the guy that went up against the hottest scorer in hockey every single shift.

just shut the **** up already.

This post makes me wanna

http://giant.gfycat.com/OccasionalNauticalDwarfmongoose.gif

zeke
11-08-2014, 10:30 PM
Dion: 52.8% corsi for close
Nash: 48.3% corsi for close

and nash's only goal came after polak got all messed up.

actually polak got completely schooled on the other goal they blamed dion for.

and franson was giving the puck away all over the ice beside Phaneuf all night.

JackBurton
11-08-2014, 10:32 PM
Dion is not a guy you build your defense around for the next 7 years.

zeke
11-08-2014, 10:36 PM
the notion of "building around" is so ****ing retarded.

Leaf fans always want to trade away their best players whenever the team isn't good enough, instead of understanding basic math that 1+1 = 2 and 2 > 1.

JackBurton
11-08-2014, 10:38 PM
I always defended him. I hate what I've seen him we signed him. He gets too much crap, but he's not a guy I want for the next 7 years.

MyNameIsJonas
11-08-2014, 10:41 PM
I always defended him. I hate what I've seen him we signed him. He gets too much crap, but he's not a guy I want for the next 7 years.

the minute you deal him people start clamoring about how the team lacks a true number one, and wants to make a trade.

Then you end up giving up assets for a similar or more likely worse player who needs an extension and will make more than the 7 Dion is inked for at similar years.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 10:51 PM
steve simmons ‏@simmonssteve 1m1 minute ago
Counting tonight, Connor McDavid is scoring at 2.88 points per game in the OHL. The record: Bobby Smith with 2.82 points per game in 1978.

Buffalo is going to get a heck of a building block.

Deckie007
11-08-2014, 10:51 PM
I feel like we go over this all the time. You make your key players better by giving them better teammates, not by trading them for 3 nickles and a dime because you can't see all the good they do. Phaneuf is a damn good dman, have no idea why people hate him so much. It's unwarranted.

MyNameIsJonas
11-08-2014, 10:54 PM
I feel like no one appreciates that the team that finishes last only gets a 25% chance at McDavid.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-08-2014, 10:59 PM
I feel like no one appreciates that the team that finishes last only gets a 25% chance at McDavid.

That is true, I forgot they have changed up the rules.

Leafin'
11-08-2014, 11:05 PM
I think Dion needs a different partner. A guy that doesn't make as many mistakes as Franson. We need to acquire more good players, instead of trading them.

A Dion Phaneuf type trade we did before would be pretty nice right around now. Another really good player.

With the contracts that Chicago has, i was wondering if Seabrook would ever become available. Another team making a move shortly will be LAKings. They're in a cap crunch. Colorado might be making a move.

LeafGm
11-09-2014, 12:05 AM
Watching the highlights tonight is glorious. I love how happy Komarov looks when he scores the winner.

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 12:15 AM
I think Dion needs a different partner. A guy that doesn't make as many mistakes as Franson. We need to acquire more good players, instead of trading them.

A Dion Phaneuf type trade we did before would be pretty nice right around now. Another really good player.

With the contracts that Chicago has, i was wondering if Seabrook would ever become available. Another team making a move shortly will be LAKings. They're in a cap crunch. Colorado might be making a move.

Nonis really shit the bed when he didn't win the Jay Bouwmeester sweeps....or you know, didn't even seriously get involved in it.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 12:28 AM
the minute you deal him people start clamoring about how the team lacks a true number one, and wants to make a trade.

Then you end up giving up assets for a similar or more likely worse player who needs an extension and will make more than the 7 Dion is inked for at similar years.

That's exactly what Dion bashers are clamouring for today.

I'm no Dion basher (though I think he's a pretty low IQ player), but it's not overly controversial to say that it is debatable as to whether or not Dion is a true number 1 (which explains all the debate there is around this). Rielly, for instance, will be a much better player than Phaneuf, in time. He might even be better than him now.

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 12:30 AM
That's exactly what Dion bashers are clamouring for today.

I'm no Dion basher (though I think he's a pretty low IQ player), but it's not overly controversial to say that it is debatable as to whether or not Dion is a true number 1 (which explains all the debate there is around this). Rielly, for instance, will be a much better player than Phaneuf, in time. He might even be better than him now.

Yet nobody called out Rielly for missing the assignment on Nash for the Rangers go ahead goal earlier.....

as for the debate concerning Dion's #1 status. If Dion isn't a #1, then the term starts to lose all meaning.

zeke
11-09-2014, 12:36 AM
Yet nobody called out Rielly for missing the assignment on Nash for the Rangers go ahead goal earlier.....

exactly.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 12:47 AM
How much are they paying Morgan Rielly?

In what possible way does Dion rate as a top defenseman in the league? He's not a top offensive performer, certainly not a top point man, he is well behind other top defensemen in ice time ... and yet saying he's not a top defenseman makes the term meaningless?

zeke
11-09-2014, 12:55 AM
are you arguing that Randy's icetime decisions mean something?

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 01:33 AM
In what possible way does Dion rate as a top defenseman in the league?

When you look at his entire body of work, he compares well to defenders that are widely considered #1 defenders. Roughly 40 points a year in offensive production while being used in a hyper defensive role by his coach, and even while facing opposition top competition, puts up strong analytic numbers (zone entries, exits, possession numbers so far this season, a positive GF on/ GA on ratio despite the extremely high QualComp)

Does he belong in the conversation with the best 5-7 defenders in the league? No, based on last season no he doesn't. But the next tier down of guys who are absolutely #1 defenders, but not among the elite, he absolutely is.

Bleedsblue&white
11-09-2014, 09:13 AM
Though they are not not similar players per se, I believe The Larry Murphy Syndrome is highly contagious and appears to thrive in Southern Ontario...maybe it's the climate.

leafman101
11-09-2014, 09:25 AM
Yeah its hard to expect a group of people that booed a hall of famer out of town, and never appreciated Kaberle to have an unbiased opinion of Phaneuf.

In what way isn't he a top defensemen is the real question?

He may not be a Suban/Weber/Suter elite, $10 mill a year dman. But there is very little sensical argument to be made that he isn't a $7 million number one defenseman. All the Habs and Sens fans here have no issue recognizing that.

For some reason Leafs fans don't understand defensemen though.

hockeylover
11-09-2014, 09:35 AM
This post makes me wanna

http://giant.gfycat.com/OccasionalNauticalDwarfmongoose.gif

Well, this is adorable.

BG
11-09-2014, 09:40 AM
The quick look to see if he's being mugged by a Ranger is priceless.

leaffan2005
11-09-2014, 09:42 AM
Throw whatever stat you want at me, but Phaneuf has had a poor start to this season. He is often caught out of position (mostly because of his lack of foot speed), takes stupid penalties, and is doing a weak job of clearing the front of the net. His offensive production has also been relatively subpar.

Nobody is saying he is useless, but this is how he has looked since the 2nd half of last year and in the first month or so of this season. Not many people wake up in the morning looking to shit on Dion. Many people are more than happy to praise him when he plays well. This board is funny sometimes when anybody tries to evaluate a defender. Say something bad about Phaneuf and you hear the Larry Murphy/Brian McCabe cat calls. Its becoming borderline ridiculous.

hockeylover
11-09-2014, 09:45 AM
I don't think Phaneuf has looked as good as he did early last year either.

I agree that the "build around" stuff is crap though - you hear the same thing about Kessel.

leafman101
11-09-2014, 09:53 AM
Why wouldn't you care what the stats say though? He is going to have breakdowns. He plays 23+ minutes a game against the best players in the league every game. Of course they are going to beat him and score.

The numbers suggest they score at a lower rate when Phaneuf is on the ice though. That's meaningful. He has a positive Corsi Rel at 1.72, so the Leafs get more scoring chances when he is on the ice than they give up. He leads the Leafs in GAon/60 with 1.42. The Leafs "goals against average" with Phaneuf on the ice is 1.42. And that is facing the toughest competition. He has a 50.99 Corsi Quality of Competition and TOI Competition Percentage of 28.5 both rank first on the Leafs.

(EDIT: those numbers were before last night

EV (rank on Leafs)
GAon/60: 2.54 (2nd)
CorsiRel: -0.3 (4th)
Corsi Rel QoC: 1.331 (1st)

).

The numbers say those mistakes are happening a lot less than the good plays.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 10:19 AM
Murphy, Kaberle, McCabe > Phaneuf

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 10:31 AM
Now, if we want to talk about a criminally underrated Leafs player, it's Nazem Kadri. Kid has taken his game to an entirely different level without hardly any recognition (besides those who look at the advanced stats for him).

This game was a perfect illustration of how this happens. On Polak's goal (a critical 3rd period tying goal), Kadri relieved the Rangers of the puck deep in his own end, skated the length of the ice, got caught in the corner with 3 Rangers on him, fought his way out with the puck in tow and then fired a sweet pass to Polak for the GTG.

What did you hear/see after this play? A 2 minute debate about whether Polak's shot was tipped.

Volcanologist
11-09-2014, 11:17 AM
I gotta say though, I don't see Kadri hustling like he did on that goal in a lot of games. when he combines that with his passing skills and ability to draw penalties, he can be an impact player.

Metalleaf
11-09-2014, 11:19 AM
I used to enjoy Romanuk during the Spengler Cup, but he has more trouble following the play than Cole.

IrishWolfman
11-09-2014, 11:36 AM
I used to enjoy Romanuk during the Spengler Cup, but he has more trouble following the play than Cole.

Still, immensely preferable to Jim f***ing Hughson.

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 12:24 PM
Still, immensely preferable to Jim f***ing Hughson.

Yeah, at least Romanuk doesn't get sad when the Leafs score a goal.

Metalleaf
11-09-2014, 12:28 PM
Oh for sure and Johnson is a lot more tolerable than Simpson.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 01:06 PM
I really noticed in this game that the Leafs were doing an excellent job when the Rangers got into danger zones. The forwards were coming back tight to the play, the blueliners weren't panicking, and they were regularly able to skate the puck out of the zone with solid short passing. I haven't seen much of that since Kaberle was still in his prime. We saw a glimpse of this in the final preseason game and the first two periods against Chicago, but this is the first game where I've seen them do this consistently through 60 minutes.

The score was a poor reflection of their play, imo. Bernier has been positively mediocre in most games and last night was no exception.

Blueman
11-09-2014, 01:18 PM
Now, if we want to talk about a criminally underrated Leafs player, it's Nazem Kadri. Kid has taken his game to an entirely different level without hardly any recognition (besides those who look at the advanced stats for him).

This game was a perfect illustration of how this happens. On Polak's goal (a critical 3rd period tying goal), Kadri relieved the Rangers of the puck deep in his own end, skated the length of the ice, got caught in the corner with 3 Rangers on him, fought his way out with the puck in tow and then fired a sweet pass to Polak for the GTG.

What did you hear/see after this play? A 2 minute debate about whether Polak's shot was tipped.
Great point. Kadri is becoming a 2-way beast this year. His effort on the defensive side is head and shoulders above where it was previously.

WellPlayed
11-09-2014, 01:21 PM
Oh for sure and Johnson is a lot more tolerable than Simpson.

Ya I find Johnson pretty good actually. More of him and less Simpson and Millen would be great. And **** Healy.

MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
11-09-2014, 02:07 PM
It's one thing to criticize his play, but must you bust him on his general appearance?

I am not making fun of his looks. Only his play.

Wayward DP
11-09-2014, 03:36 PM
A few notes from this game...
1) Uncle Leo. Enough said. Guy is a spark plug in every sense of the word, and looks like his puck skills are catching up to his hitting and agitating ones.

2) Nazem Kadri. Kid's really bringing it. Looking more and more like a #1 centre. Had a good night in the face off circle, real solid in his own end, physical, and almost entirely responsible for Polak's tying goal. As has been mentioned, he's starting to be rewarded for his work, which is good to see. Strange for Naz to be flying under the radar but he's doing exactly that so far.

3) Dion Phaneuf. Not sure why people are ragging on him after the game he had. He shut down Nash (no easy feat), the goal Nash scored was one of the few shifts he wasn't matched up against Dion. Ask Nash what playing against him is like and maybe we'll get a better idea of his value.

4) Fourth line. Sucked. Rangers fourth line dominated us.

5) Richard Panik and Peter Holland. Both are looking a lot better with increased usage and opportunity.

Now time to spank baby bro.

JackBurton
11-09-2014, 04:23 PM
Throw whatever stat you want at me, but Phaneuf has had a poor start to this season. He is often caught out of position (mostly because of his lack of foot speed), takes stupid penalties, and is doing a weak job of clearing the front of the net. His offensive production has also been relatively subpar.

Nobody is saying he is useless, but this is how he has looked since the 2nd half of last year and in the first month or so of this season. Not many people wake up in the morning looking to shit on Dion. Many people are more than happy to praise him when he plays well. This board is funny sometimes when anybody tries to evaluate a defender. Say something bad about Phaneuf and you hear the Larry Murphy/Brian McCabe cat calls. Its becoming borderline ridiculous.

That's what I see as well. I just think since that collapse he hasn't looked as good. People knocked him last season, but I thought he looked terrific in the first half.

And what does Larry murphy have to do with this? I praised Dion non-stop this time last season.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 04:27 PM
3) Dion Phaneuf. Not sure why people are ragging on him after the game he had. He shut down Nash (no easy feat), the goal Nash scored was one of the few shifts he wasn't matched up against Dion. Ask Nash what playing against him is like and maybe we'll get a better idea of his value.


Watch around the 2:30 mark: http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videocenter/console

Phaneuf is just standing around in front of the net watching the play, while Zuccarello skates in unimpeded past Panik while Phaneuf meekly waves his stick around. Now, Panik maybe should have had the guy (though the point man would have been left alone if he did), but there were only 2 Rangers deep and both were covered. WTF is Dion doing there? There's three guys behind him but he's watching the two guys already well covered.

This happens in the final seconds of a period to shorten the Leafs lead. Phaneuf the other night takes a truly boneheaded penalty in the final few minutes as the Leafs were pressing to tie the game. These aren't random events, imo. They reflect a certain lack of awareness and braincramping activity ... something that has been at the heart of the Leafs fumbles over the past several years.

I'm not one to think this guy isn't a reasonably good top pairing defenseman -- he is that. But there's a reason he draws the ire of fans and it's not simply because they suffer from some mythical Murphy Syndrome.

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 04:32 PM
Now, Panik maybe should have had the guy (though the point man would have been left alone if he did), but there were only 2 Rangers deep and both were covered. WTF is Dion doing there? There's three guys behind him but he's watching the two guys already well covered.

If I had to guess, this is part of the Leafs defensive system. I've noticed that our free defender in the defensive zone returns to "home plate" if he doesn't have an active assignment to cover. It's actually one of the things I tend to dislike about our defensive coverage and it's one of the reasons imo, we've had so many struggles clearing the zone over the last few years is that the open defender is out of position to receive the puck whenever we've been able to force a turnover and the puck gets reversed along the boards.

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 04:33 PM
But there's a reason he draws the ire of fans and it's not simply because they suffer from some mythical Murphy Syndrome.

Most Leaf fans don't know what they're looking at

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 04:45 PM
Most Leaf fans don't know what they're looking at

This does not mean the criticisms of his play are invalid. I see Dion like Bozak: they are given too much responsibility for what they are. They're good players that, in a lesser role, are solid assets in the lineup. Dion needs another top pairing guy beside him, otherwise he can be a bit too much of a liability, imo. He definitely wears out as the season progresses.

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 04:50 PM
This does not mean the criticisms of his play are invalid.

It probably does. When a moron is bleating on about something, just because they're a moron it doesn't mean that they're wrong...but the balance of probabilities is.......


I see Dion like Bozak: they are given too much responsibility for what they are. They're good players that, in a lesser role, are solid assets in the lineup. Dion needs another top pairing guy beside him, otherwise he can be a bit too much of a liability, imo. He definitely wears out as the season progresses.

I definitely agree with aspects of this though. Dion has been expected to do things more or less by himself the last few seasons and is used in such a way that almost no other defenders in the NHL are. He needs insulation just like any other #1 does....there were stories in Nashville last year asking what was wrong with Shea Weber, because his play had "dropped off" since Suter left. In reality, he was expected to do everything with a skeleton crew of kids and meh around him and that's what you get. Subban can be a nightmare defensively at times, but people forget it because the super steady Markov bails him out. Doughty typically has a gang of solid defenders around him, etc, etc. Phaneuf has played with kids and crap for the most part and we expect him to look like Bobby ****ing Orr for him to not get shit on.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 04:52 PM
I don't expect him to play like Bobby Orr. Gunnarsson was not a weak partner, though some of the others have been sad. The results speak for themselves ... he needs a solid partner. I'm hoping Rielly can fill this need sooner than later.

MindzEye
11-09-2014, 05:01 PM
You don't, but "Vito from Woodbridge" absolutely does.

Gunnar wasn't a weak partner until his hip started falling apart on him. He does need a solid partner though, just like every other top defender in the league.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 05:11 PM
Top defenders don't become liabilities in the absence of a comparable talent playing alongside.

leafman101
11-09-2014, 05:16 PM
He's not a liability though. He just doesn't stop the opposition from scoring every time.

Wayward DP
11-09-2014, 05:17 PM
Top defenders don't become liabilities in the absence of a comparable talent playing alongside.

Not many top defenders will look it when playing with Mike Kostka and Korbinian Holzer.

And in a game where Dion shut down Rick Nash, you want to nit pick a single play? No d-man is perfect, they all have breakdowns. The sum of Dion's body of work is impressive though, he's consistently matched up against the oppositions top players, and consistently shuts them down, while still producing offensively at around a ~40ish point pace.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 05:20 PM
Since when did Rich Nash become this elite player? Until last night, most people around here regraded him as the most overrated thing on skates.

leafman101
11-09-2014, 05:20 PM
He's not a liability though. He's just on the ice for some goals against like every other top defenseman.

GFon/60: 2.54
GAon/60: 2.54
+/- on/60: 0.00
GAoff/60: 3.05
+/- off/60: -0.55
Corsi%: 49.06%
Corsi Off%: 47.34%

Pretty much across the board the Leafs are a better team with Phaneuf on the ice, than when he is off. And he is the guy getting all the tough assignments.

leafman101
11-09-2014, 05:21 PM
Since when did Rich Nash become this elite player? Until last night, most people around here regraded him as the most overrated thing on skates.

He leads the league in goals. Elite player I don't know about, but he is an elite scorer.

zeke
11-09-2014, 05:24 PM
5v5 GA/60

Phaneuf 1.55
Robidas 1.88
Rielly 2.48
Franson 2.73
Polak 2.96
Gardiner 3.09
Percy 3.61

and, of coursr, he gets all the toughest matchups against the other teams' top scorers.

Wayward DP
11-09-2014, 05:25 PM
5v5 GA/60

Phaneuf 1.55
Robidas 1.88
Rielly 2.48
Franson 2.73
Polak 2.96
Gardiner 3.09
Percy 3.61

and, of coursr, he gets all the toughest matchups against the other teams' top scorers.

heh

leafman101
11-09-2014, 05:29 PM
At its core the Larry Murphy syndrome is fans seeing these guys made look silly and scored on over and over again and thinking that means they stink.

When really they are playing against the top players in the league, who make everyone look silly. And the numbers show Phaneuf gets beat less than most other dmen in those situations. He actually limits those players effectiveness.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 05:34 PM
5v5 GA/60

Phaneuf 1.55
Robidas 1.88
Rielly 2.48
Franson 2.73
Polak 2.96
Gardiner 3.09
Percy 3.61

and, of coursr, he gets all the toughest matchups against the other teams' top scorers.

I assume this covers the 13 games from this season. A key issue with Phaneuf is his ability to sustain his play over the full season. So, let's look at these numbers from last year (minimum of 700 5on5 mins).

Gardiner: 1.98
Gunnarsson: 2.21
Ranger: 2.31
Phaneuf: 2.33
Franson: 2.79
Gleason: 2.87
Rielly: 2.92

Correct me if I'm wrong, but i have read a few articles by advanced stats people showing that QofC has little to no bearing on Corsi?

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 05:38 PM
Here's the GA/60 5on5 numbers from 2012-13 ... same tale as last year (400 minute min).

Liles: 2.21
Kostka: 2.22
Gunnar: 2.30
Fraser: 2.36
Phaneuf: 2.66
O'Bryne: 2.68
Franson: 2.78
Gardiner: 1.98

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 05:39 PM
Sure not looking like a top defender by that metric. lol

rated
11-09-2014, 05:48 PM
It's amazing how you can twist and use stats to suit your argument.

zeke
11-09-2014, 05:55 PM
13-14 5v5 GA/60

Phaneuf 2.33
Seabrook 2.38
Edler 2.42
Letang 2.43
Keith 2.46
Kronwall 2.57
Yandle 2.59
Subban 2.60
Martin 2.62
Weber 2.64
Karlsson 2.80

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 05:59 PM
13-14 5v5 GA/60

Phaneuf 2.33
Seabrook 2.38
Edler 2.42
Letang 2.43
Keith 2.46
Kronwall 2.57
Yandle 2.59
Subban 2.60
Martin 2.62
Weber 2.64
Karlsson 2.80


Ah, when the cherry picking blows up in your face, shift gears ... hopefully no one will notice.

This is little more than +/- ... which, if nothing else, should never be measured across teams with different systems and different goalies, etc..

zeke
11-09-2014, 06:02 PM
cherry picking?

you don't understand how to put those numbers in context, and didn't realize that what you thought made him looked bad actually didn't, and i just corrected you.

there's no need to cherry pick - dion's numbers, advanced and regular, are excellent across the board this year. and this is the first year he's not being asked to carry to the most extreme usage role in the entire nhl under randy, so it's probably no coincidence.

Leafin'
11-09-2014, 06:05 PM
Give me 1 more Phaneuf to play with Phaneuf. This team doesn't need less Dion, it needs more.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 06:06 PM
cherry picking?

you don't understand how to put those numbers in context, and didn't realize that what you thought made him looked bad actually didn't, and i just corrected you.

You posted 5on5 GA/60 minutes over 13 games. I took the exact same parameters, including measuring it only against other Leafs players as you did, and showed it over a much larger data set. Lo and behold, unlike the 13 game set you used, Dion did not end up at the top of your list.

zeke
11-09-2014, 06:08 PM
yet you didn't realize that the number you posted still made dion look good, compared to dmen with similar usage.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 06:09 PM
yet you didn't realize that the number you posted still made dion look good, compared to dmen with similar usage.

Well, if the object is to make Dion look good, I can just leave you to it.

hockeylover
11-09-2014, 06:44 PM
Here's the GA/60 5on5 numbers from 2012-13 ... same tale as last year (400 minute min).

Liles: 2.21
Kostka: 2.22
Gunnar: 2.30
Fraser: 2.36
Phaneuf: 2.66
O'Bryne: 2.68
Franson: 2.78
Gardiner: 1.98

I feel like if the stats you posted say Fraser, Liles, Kostka are doing a better job than Phaneuf, your analysis needs some review, no?

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 06:52 PM
I feel like if the stats you posted say Fraser, Liles, Kostka are doing a better job than Phaneuf, your analysis needs some review, no?

Definitely. The metric is garbage, as far as I'm concerned. Talk with zeke.

hockeylover
11-09-2014, 06:53 PM
Definitely. The metric is garbage, as far as I'm concerned. Talk with zeke.

Huh? But Zeke is comparing players with similar usage/competition.

It's the same problem as those dumb graphs you posted in the last thread (Harrison, Komisarek etc).

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 06:55 PM
Huh? But Zeke is comparing players with similar usage/competition.

It's the same problem as those dumb graphs you posted in the last thread (Harrison, Komisarek etc).

You need to follow further back. Zeke was the first to post it, based on 13 games. I merely used the same metric over a much larger dataset to show that he was cherry picking.

hockeylover
11-09-2014, 06:59 PM
You need to follow further back. Zeke was the first to post it, based on 13 games. I merely used the same metric over a much larger dataset to show that he was cherry picking.

... because it's the lowest and he's the one with the toughest matchups, so he doesn't need to adjust for anything.

I don't even particularly think he's looked that great this season but I'm not sure I'd call that cherry picking.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 07:02 PM
... because it's the lowest and he's the one with the toughest matchups, so he doesn't need to adjust for anything.

Not sure what you're talkiing about.

He posted 5on5 GA/60 for 13 games. I never said anything about adjusting it. I used the exact same metric but for two full previous seasons.

Somehow, it's a good stat when used for 13 games, but not so when used for a full two seasons. Strange things happen when you say something negative about Dion around here.

hockeylover
11-09-2014, 07:07 PM
Not sure what you're talkiing about.

He posted 5on5 GA/60 for 13 games. I never said anything about adjusting it. I used the exact same metric but for two full previous seasons.

Somehow, it's a good stat when used for 13 games, but not so when used for a full two seasons. Strange things happen when you say something negative about Dion around here.

Yeah, I can see that.

It's a good stat when used in comparing players with similar usage. But if you know the player who has the lowest GA/60 also has the toughest matchups anyway, then usage isn't really a factor. Makes sense to me but maybe I'm explaining it poorly.

BeLeafer
11-09-2014, 07:11 PM
Yeah, I can see that.

It's a good stat when used in comparing players with similar usage. But if you know the player who has the lowest GA/60 also has the toughest matchups anyway, then usage isn't really a factor. Makes sense to me but maybe I'm explaining it poorly.

Apologies if I misunderstood you. To my mind, it's just a variation on +/- ... it measures just the minus side of it. it's a poor stat for sure.

I'm not sure how to compare players of similar usage, but I was only responding to zeke having used it to compare Dion against his teammates. It sure seems wonky across teams. The entire LA defense, for instance, has better numbers than Dion. It should be consigned to the same dustbin as +/- imo.