OT: American Politics

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
I wonder if they own what their motivations actually are, in private? I get that they largely (with some exceptions) come out and blatantly state that they're motivated by limiting democracy and opportunity towards minorities and the poor, but I really wonder how blunt they are about it when they're speaking in private. How much do they actually understand and accept?
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Re-election. That's it.
Eh, I think there are more true believers and ideologues than you think. Don't get me wrong, if it didn't sell they would do whatever they needed to for the purpose of re election, but I think the right has been on the same track for long enough to generate an entire generation of true believers of the current cause.
 

zeke

Active member
Eh, I think there are more true believers and ideologues than you think. Don't get me wrong, if it didn't sell they would do whatever they needed to for the purpose of re election, but I think the right has been on the same track for long enough to generate an entire generation of true believers of the current cause.
I mean, other than the fact that they are now embracing everything they were against ideologically.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
I mean, other than the fact that they are now embracing everything they were against ideologically.
But that's generational. A generation ago they were about national defence, crime, balanced budgets, etc. Traditional republican shit. Now they're about immigration & abortion. They just pretend to be about all that old timey stuff, but they're almost all legit immigration and abortion warriors now.

They've been able to "move on" from traditional republican ideologies because it's become so baked into the public consciousness that they're about those issues that they don't actually have to be about them to garner support as the party most likely to be about those issues. This entire generational power play they've made to control scotus has been about immigration and women's reproductive rights. With "immigration" being a polite word for keeping power in the hands of white voters. All the voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc are just tools to that end.
 

zeke

Active member
But that's generational. A generation ago they were about national defence, crime, balanced budgets, etc. Traditional republican shit. Now they're about immigration & abortion. They just pretend to be about all that old timey stuff, but they're almost all legit immigration and abortion warriors now.

They've been able to "move on" from traditional republican ideologies because it's become so baked into the public consciousness that they're about those issues that they don't actually have to be about them to garner support as the party most likely to be about those issues. This entire generational power play they've made to control scotus has been about immigration and women's reproductive rights. With "immigration" being a polite word for keeping power in the hands of white voters. All the voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc are just tools to that end.
Eh. Any of them would get an abortion if they needed to.

But sure, I'll buy racism as a core belief.
 

Habsy

Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire
I don’t buy into this “anyone that wants immigration reform is racist” stuff people are peddling. The immigration system is broken and has conflicting laws within it. Changes proposed that other countries use are called out as racist. It’s bs. They pound “white supremacy “ now because the word racist or racism has been rendered meaningless. If everything is racist then nothing is racist.
 

zeke

Active member
I don’t buy into this “anyone that wants immigration reform is racist” stuff people are peddling. The immigration system is broken and has conflicting laws within it. Changes proposed that other countries use are called out as racist. It’s bs. They pound “white supremacy “ now because the word racist or racism has been rendered meaningless. If everything is racist then nothing is racist.
everyone wants immigration reform, on both sides.

but anyone whose main political animus is curbing immigration is most likely a racist, imo.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
I don’t buy into this “anyone that wants immigration reform is racist” stuff people are peddling. The immigration system is broken and has conflicting laws within it. Changes proposed that other countries use are called out as racist. It’s bs. They pound “white supremacy “ now because the word racist or racism has been rendered meaningless. If everything is racist then nothing is racist.
Oh, I don't think anyone who wants to fix immigration is racist. I do think everyone screaming about it is racist though. Everyone who makes excuses for children in cages is a racist, everyone who runs cover or uses weasel words to explain away Trump's approach to immigration is racist. Everyone who supports Trump removing paths to citizenship for immigrants serving in the armed forces is racist, treating legal asylum seekers are border jumpers, etc, etc, etc.

It's entirely cool with looking at America's immigration system and want to make improvements. But I have no doubt that the current approach to fixing it is synonomous with racism.
 

Habsy

Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire
Someone still has to explain to me why it’s wrong to want people to immigrate legally and prove they can pay for themselves. Thinking it’s ok to sneak in and milk the system is not ok to me. Obviously there are many productive illegals and many unproductive legals. It’s a personality issue there, not where you’re from or what you look like however they are a drain on the taxpayers and it’s not right that many receive more assistance than citizens living in poverty.

I want immigration reform, comprehensive reform. I don’t care from what country they’re coming from. No wall is needed, law change is needed and there doesn’t seem to be an appetite in Washington for comprehensive change, politicians would rather keep using it as an election tool instead.
 

Habsy

Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire
Oh, I don't think anyone who wants to fix immigration is racist. I do think everyone screaming about it is racist though. Everyone who makes excuses for children in cages is a racist, everyone who runs cover or uses weasel words to explain away Trump's approach to immigration is racist. Everyone who supports Trump removing paths to citizenship for immigrants serving in the armed forces is racist, treating legal asylum seekers are border jumpers, etc, etc, etc.

It's entirely cool with looking at America's immigration system and want to make improvements. But I have no doubt that the current approach to fixing it is synonomous with racism.
Have you ever considered that they believe this is the only way to get reform done? Immigration reform has been batted around since the 80s with nobody in Washington doing crap. They’ve kicked the can down the road so far that it reached someone like Trump who likely believes he can effectuate change through cruelty. Be cruel enough until people want to negotiate. Don’t put it past him and his minions, I really believe he thinks like that.
 

zeke

Active member
Someone still has to explain to me why it’s wrong to want people to immigrate legally and prove they can pay for themselves. Thinking it’s ok to sneak in and milk the system is not ok to me.
the majority of undocumented immigrants pay taxes, though.
 

Habsy

Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire
Sales tax mostly. Payroll if they have a fake social. The tax contribution comes nowhere near the expense involved with illegal immigrants. No other country in the world has a higher percentage of illegal immigrants nor do they even allow this to happen yet the USA is expected to cling to a terribly broken system? You’re just asking for inhumanity to occur eventually.
 
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