Page 1404 of 1425 FirstFirst ... 404904130413541394140214031404140514061414 ... LastLast
Results 28,061 to 28,080 of 28495

Thread: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

  1. #28061
    Legend zeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    55,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    raps defense was 2nd best against bottom 20 offenses, but 2nd worst against top 10 offenses.

    a very very detailed look:

    http://www.nba.com/article/2018/09/2...-best-offenses
    #FreeVladdy

  2. #28062
    Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Yeah he brought that up near the end of the season and I chose to ignore it. Derozan out and Kawhi+Green in makes a massive difference, but the key for me is whether or not Nurse becomes fixated with a consistent approach like Casey when it comes to starting lineup / bench. This team has a ton of ways they can mix and match lineups, there's no need for simple units anymore. It's looking like they'll start the season with Ibaka at the 4 which is fine, but they should change that up as the season goes along (Ibaka's a C defensively in today's game). With Derozan gone, those two on the court at the same time vs. small teams is the only true weakness that I can see defensively. Celtics and Sixers could expose that come playoff time.

  3. #28063
    Hall of Famer Wayward DP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    4,822
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    I kinda like changing your starting lineup based on your opposition. Why bother with the artificial distinction of starts and bench? Just optimize your match ups. Obviously Leonard and Lowry will likely start every game, but beyond that, who cares.

  4. #28064
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Dirty North
    Posts
    74,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    I think this is also a testament to Casey's inability to manage in game situations. We saw it a lot during the season where the opposition would get a P/R situation they liked and ram it down the Raptors throat for a long stretch of time with no adjustments at all from Casey. Just look at the difference between how we defended Clevelands Lebron led P/R game, giving away open corner 3's constantly to Korver and whoever else, and then how Brad Stevens handled that in the following round with the novel switching and rotation he had his defence doing to close those gaps.

    So his defence worked against mediocre and shit offences, but when a good offence came through, he didn't adapt the plan at all. It was the same defensive scheme all ****ing year. Yeah, the better coached and more talented offences are going to figure that shit out and torch it. You need to be able to manage change within a game to win at the highest levels in the NBA. Pop isn't a legend because he dreamt up a strong system 20 yrs ago and has stuck with it stubbornly. He's a ****ing stud because his system is and always has been so flexible.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  5. #28065
    Legend
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20,572
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    I think this is also a testament to Casey's inability to manage in game situations. We saw it a lot during the season where the opposition would get a P/R situation they liked and ram it down the Raptors throat for a long stretch of time with no adjustments at all from Casey. Just look at the difference between how we defended Clevelands Lebron led P/R game, giving away open corner 3's constantly to Korver and whoever else, and then how Brad Stevens handled that in the following round with the novel switching and rotation he had his defence doing to close those gaps.

    So his defence worked against mediocre and shit offences, but when a good offence came through, he didn't adapt the plan at all. It was the same defensive scheme all ****ing year. Yeah, the better coached and more talented offences are going to figure that shit out and torch it. You need to be able to manage change within a game to win at the highest levels in the NBA. Pop isn't a legend because he dreamt up a strong system 20 yrs ago and has stuck with it stubbornly. He's a ****ing stud because his system is and always has been so flexible.
    Top shelf post

    Was never a Casey fan watching that same iso play that never worked and he was too stubborn to adjust .

    His use of JV when he was killing it by half time was beyond annoying in some games

  6. #28066
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Dirty North
    Posts
    74,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    Top shelf post

    Was never a Casey fan watching that same iso play that never worked and he was too stubborn to adjust.
    One of, if not the most damning aspects of Casey's tenure here is just how much the offence improved when it was taken away from him and given to Nick Nurse, and how the weakest part of the offence continued being late clock situations where Casey just called Demar's number and let him play hero ball.

    I expect the same to be said this year when we see how much our D improves. Kawhi will deserve a portion of the credit, but we had a legit high end defensive stopper covering opposition best all year last year as well. The biggest difference is going to be in scheme. I don't see Nurse just allowing opposition offences to pick on the Lowry/Val combo in P/R situations. There will be a lot more attempts to deny the screener, a lot more high hedging, and a lot more switching between Val and Siakam down low instead of waiting passively as the offence sets up their P/R. Casey's answer for all of that to frown at Val and stubbornly stick with it. To him it was Val's failure, and not his own. Nurse is going to show us the lie in that this year. Val will never be a good P/R defender, he just doesn't have the mobility for it. But the defence can be athletic and adaptable enough to cover that up better, so that Val can be used to hammer defences at the other end, where he's incredibly effective.

    His use of JV when he was killing it by half time was beyond annoying in some games
    He decided long ago that he didn't like Val, that Val didn't fit his system, etc. I can buy the "molder of men" angle for why he's a good coach. Demar and Lowry developed well under him, absolutely. But as an X's and O's coach he was horrific.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  7. #28067
    Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    One of, if not the most damning aspects of Casey's tenure here is just how much the offence improved when it was taken away from him and given to Nick Nurse, and how the weakest part of the offence continued being late clock situations where Casey just called Demar's number and let him play hero ball.

    I expect the same to be said this year when we see how much our D improves. Kawhi will deserve a portion of the credit, but we had a legit high end defensive stopper covering opposition best all year last year as well. The biggest difference is going to be in scheme. I don't see Nurse just allowing opposition offences to pick on the Lowry/Val combo in P/R situations. There will be a lot more attempts to deny the screener, a lot more high hedging, and a lot more switching between Val and Siakam down low instead of waiting passively as the offence sets up their P/R. Casey's answer for all of that to frown at Val and stubbornly stick with it. To him it was Val's failure, and not his own. Nurse is going to show us the lie in that this year. Val will never be a good P/R defender, he just doesn't have the mobility for it. But the defence can be athletic and adaptable enough to cover that up better, so that Val can be used to hammer defences at the other end, where he's incredibly effective.

    He decided long ago that he didn't like Val, that Val didn't fit his system, etc. I can buy the "molder of men" angle for why he's a good coach. Demar and Lowry developed well under him, absolutely. But as an X's and O's coach he was horrific.
    There's a certain stubborn Toronto coach in another sport that has a lot of similarities with that Casey fella. As for Nurse, looks like he's already doing the work trying to figure out how to keep Val from getting torched vs. ball-handlers on PnR. Like you said, it might not be possible to make Val "good" at guarding them, but even just going from unplayable to below average would be a huge difference-maker.

    Quote from Doug Smith's article:

    The other side of Valanciunas’s game — defence — also needs some work and needs to continue to improve as it has in the past couple of years. In the constantly changing NBA, a big man has to be able to guard all kinds of different opponents in all kinds of different schemes: switching pick and rolls, getting out to contest corner three-pointers, being able to protect the rim and close off paths to the basket for attacking guards.

    The demands are endless and Valanciunas has plenty left to master. Nurse knows that, his staff knows that, and there’s a method to some of their training camp madness.

    “I am hoping to give him more chances to defend different people,” Nurse said. “He’s got to be able to guard more than just the five (other post players) in today’s NBA game.

    “You guys know we have a one-on-one tournament every day. That isn’t just for the offensive guys. That’s for guys like J.V. to have continual reps of playing against Kyle (Lowry) and Fred (VanVleet) and Norm (Powell) and guys he could end up on.”
    https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...s-offence.html

  8. #28068
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Dirty North
    Posts
    74,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by madvillain View Post
    There's a certain stubborn Toronto coach in another sport that has a lot of similarities with that Casey fella. As for Nurse, looks like he's already doing the work trying to figure out how to keep Val from getting torched vs. ball-handlers on PnR. Like you said, it might not be possible to make Val "good" at guarding them, but even just going from unplayable to below average would be a huge difference-maker.

    Quote from Doug Smith's article:



    https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...s-offence.html
    I've thought about the similarities between Casey and Babcock and there's one core difference. Babcock's stubbornness is attached to over coaching. He wants his choice of players in every situation, to the point of over coaching (like we saw last year, we actually had slightly better results without the last change than we had with it). Casey was a chronic under coacher though, which unless you're running Lebron with legit options, or the Warriors, just doesn't fly in the NBA.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  9. #28069
    Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    I've thought about the similarities between Casey and Babcock and there's one core difference. Babcock's stubbornness is attached to over coaching. He wants his choice of players in every situation, to the point of over coaching (like we saw last year, we actually had slightly better results without the last change than we had with it). Casey was a chronic under coacher though, which unless you're running Lebron with legit options, or the Warriors, just doesn't fly in the NBA.
    Each of them have one win. Casey beats LeBron when on the Mavs, LeBron adjusts vs. the Raps yet Casey sticks to the same script over and over. Babcock's obsession with "gud pros". It's different, but it's that generic stubbornness born out of some success. Might be a little harsh on Babcock as he does have a better resume in his sport, but he's kind of treated like he's the NHL version of Poppovich/Belicheck success when his two other accomplishments are the two Olympic Gold Medals. I have more faith in Babcock, but this season is a big test for him.

  10. #28070
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Dirty North
    Posts
    74,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by madvillain View Post
    Each of them have one win. Casey beats LeBron when on the Mavs, LeBron adjusts vs. the Raps yet Casey sticks to the same script over and over. Babcock's obsession with "gud pros". It's different, but it's that generic stubbornness born out of some success. Might be a little harsh on Babcock as he does have a better resume in his sport, but he's kind of treated like he's the NHL version of Poppovich/Belicheck success when his two other accomplishments are the two Olympic Gold Medals. I have more faith in Babcock, but this season is a big test for him.
    Well, in fairness, Lebron didn't "adjust" later on. He was dreadful against the Mavs and was just never dreadful again. Second is that Casey was the assistant in Dallas and not the coach. He built a defensive scheme that on autopilot with just okay defensive personnel was a top 10 defence, there's not a damn thing wrong with that. But when he was in the big chair, he showed a distinct inability to adapt and manage in game situations.

    I think Babcock's reputation has largely come from his ability to get a lot of out just okay rosters. There's the cup and the internatonal success, which doesn't hurt his profile at all, but he's credited with getting a lot out of a middling group in Anaheim. Then he won with studs in Detroit, but the studs got old and went away, and Babcock's group remained competitive for longer than they probably should have (people were screaming about an impending rebuild in Detroit for years but they never fell apart, always made the playoffs regardless of what was on the ice). Then he came to Toronto, turned a group of misfit toys into about as good a team as they possibily could have been, and has developed every young player of note into impact guys since his arrival. He's not Pop or BB, but I don't think hockey has an analogue for those two. It's really hard to argue that Babcock isn't a top 3-5 coach in the NHL.

    I see this era of NHL hockey as the last throws of the old guard, very similar to what 10 years ago was like in the NBA. Where there were still a lot of old guard coaches with huge reputations kicking around, who were more or less rejecting what the analytics were saying about how the NBA game was changing. Now? It's getting harder and harder for coaches to get or keep jobs without bowing down to the importance of space, ball movement, and 3 point shooting. We'll see NHL clubs do the same over the next 10 years imo. As a coach, you'll either buy in to the value of puck possession, shooting from high percentage areas, speed and skill, or you'll have a difficult time getting or keeping jobs.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  11. #28071
    Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    Well, in fairness, Lebron didn't "adjust" later on. He was dreadful against the Mavs and was just never dreadful again. Second is that Casey was the assistant in Dallas and not the coach. He built a defensive scheme that on autopilot with just okay defensive personnel was a top 10 defence, there's not a damn thing wrong with that. But when he was in the big chair, he showed a distinct inability to adapt and manage in game situations.

    I think Babcock's reputation has largely come from his ability to get a lot of out just okay rosters. There's the cup and the internatonal success, which doesn't hurt his profile at all, but he's credited with getting a lot out of a middling group in Anaheim. Then he won with studs in Detroit, but the studs got old and went away, and Babcock's group remained competitive for longer than they probably should have (people were screaming about an impending rebuild in Detroit for years but they never fell apart, always made the playoffs regardless of what was on the ice). Then he came to Toronto, turned a group of misfit toys into about as good a team as they possibily could have been, and has developed every young player of note into impact guys since his arrival. He's not Pop or BB, but I don't think hockey has an analogue for those two. It's really hard to argue that Babcock isn't a top 3-5 coach in the NHL.

    I see this era of NHL hockey as the last throws of the old guard, very similar to what 10 years ago was like in the NBA. Where there were still a lot of old guard coaches with huge reputations kicking around, who were more or less rejecting what the analytics were saying about how the NBA game was changing. Now? It's getting harder and harder for coaches to get or keep jobs without bowing down to the importance of space, ball movement, and 3 point shooting. We'll see NHL clubs do the same over the next 10 years imo. As a coach, you'll either buy in to the value of puck possession, shooting from high percentage areas, speed and skill, or you'll have a difficult time getting or keeping jobs.
    And to Casey’s credit, he’s in the same boat of getting the best out of his talent when it comes to winning in the regular season. There’s value in that. A team like the Wizards, with similar talent level the last few years, have routinely been projected as the team that’s got next. They could have easily been a perennial 50+ win team if coached by Casey. And as much as he’s touted as a defensive coach with old-school habits, Raps have used analytics to prop up the offense to top 5 levels in different ways. ISO-heavy in 2015 to ball movement heavy last season (which might not have been his choice, but still).

  12. #28072
    Legend zeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    55,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    #FreeVladdy

  13. #28073
    Legend zeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    55,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread



    Ben Falk

    @bencfalk
    I count 6 non-paint twos out of 69 shots so far for Toronto. ��

    9:19 PM - Sep 29, 2018
    #FreeVladdy

  14. #28074
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Dirty North
    Posts
    74,517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Well that's just sexy. Want to score 120+ on 39% shooting? That's how you do it.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  15. #28075
    Legend zeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    55,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Kawhi is good.
    #FreeVladdy

  16. #28076
    Legend zeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    55,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    our defense is smothering
    #FreeVladdy

  17. #28077
    Legend HabsFan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Fort McMurray, Canada
    Posts
    10,017
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Danny Green hit a few 3’s tonight. Nice shooting stroke.

  18. #28078
    Legend zeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    55,664
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Siakam dropped 21/11/6/4 leading the raps 3rd stringers over the pelicans starters tonight.
    #FreeVladdy

  19. #28079
    Legend
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    22,094
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    preseason sports are pretty much the worst.

  20. #28080
    Hall of Famer Jeremy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stouffville, ON
    Posts
    5,414
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

    Group in Quebec wants to bring an NBA franchise to Montreal. Would like to see that and a team back in Vancity too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "I divide the world into learners and non-learners. There are people who learn, who are open to what happens around them, who listen, who hear the lessons. When they do something stupid, they don't do it again. And when they do something that works a little bit, they do it even better and harder the next time. The question to ask is not whether you are a success or a failure, but whether you are a learner or a non-learner." - Benjamin Barber

Page 1404 of 1425 FirstFirst ... 404904130413541394140214031404140514061414 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •