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OT: American Politics

Do you guys have those minor emergency care centers up there? They’ve popped up all over the place here. People walk in and usually get to see a doctor with less than an hour wait. Most of the time it’s less than 30 minutes. They’re pretty much every couple of miles on busy streets.

Yeah, but a lot of the time they simply refer you to the hospital ER anyways.
 
again, a certain side has somehow been able to convince people that the "government between you and your healthcare" is actually worse than "a private corporation who will fight to avoid paying for your coverage between you and your healthcare".

Just stop with your onesideisms. It diminishes your position greatly.
 
Do you guys have those minor emergency care centers up there? They’ve popped up all over the place here. People walk in and usually get to see a doctor with less than an hour wait. Most of the time it’s less than 30 minutes. They’re pretty much every couple of miles on busy streets.

there's a million walk in clinics that will see you immediately.
 
Yeah, but a lot of the time they simply refer you to the hospital ER anyways.

Not here. We also have surgi-centers everywhere that deal with outpatient surgeries. Emergency rooms are quiet down here. Mainly because the emergency copays have become stupid high. Used to be 50-100$. Now they’re $300-500 just for a sniffle because hospitals charge the insurance companies more so those companies are trying to deter people from going to the hospital for something less than life threatening.
 
Not here. We also have surgi-centers everywhere that deal with outpatient surgeries. Emergency rooms are quiet down here. Mainly because the emergency copays have become stupid high. Used to be 50-100$. Now they’re $300-500 just for a sniffle because hospitals charge the insurance companies more so those companies are trying to deter people from going to the hospital for something less than life threatening.

Not the case here, sadly. it's good if you need stitches , a prescription for something minor or have the common cold.

Anything more than that, off to the hospital.
 
Sounds like the same thing as here.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/healt...t-in-two-decades-of-tracking-report-1.3710794

Zeke probably lives in Ontario, (surprising considering how much he talks about America, I would have figured he lives two blocks away from the white house)

Ontario recorded the shortest wait times, at 15.6 weeks, which is a slight improvement from last year. The only other province that saw wait times reduced was Newfoundland and Labrador, which dropped to 21.5 weeks from 26 weeks.

Compared to someone like me, who has been all over canada and having to navigate multiple health care systems, I can tell you, there is a huge problem with the Canadian system. Not even close to the mess that is America, but significantly lagging behind Europe and Oceania
 
I've had to wait a long time in walk in clinics. Some are quick, others much less so. There are family doctor shortages all across the country right now, I think its generally worst in rural areas.

In Halifax there are not really many walk-in options. On the peninsula, there are only three, two near the city centre. There are more outside the city centre, but I'm not sure how many.

Overall though I won't complain too much, I've always done pretty well by our system.
 
https://www.cihi.ca/sites/default/files/document/text-alternative-version-2016-cmwf-en-web.pdf

The last time you went to the hospital emergency department, was it for a condition
that you thought could have been treated by the doctors or staff at the place where
you usually get medical care if they had been available? Country results from highest
to lowest


United States, 47%; Germany, 42%; Canada, 41% (below average); Norway, 40%;
Commonwealth Fund average, 34%; Netherlands, 33%; Sweden, 32%; New Zealand, 31%;
Switzerland, 30%; United Kingdom, 29%; Australia, 28%; France, 20%

29% of Canadians report waiting 4 or more hours the last time they went to the hospital
emergency department.
Patients who reported waiting 4 or more hours: Country results from highest to lowest
Canada, 29% (below average); Sweden, 20%; Norway, 13%; United States, 11%;
Commonwealth Fund average, 11%; Australia, 10%; New Zealand, 10%; United Kingdom, 8%;
Switzerland, 7%; Netherlands, 4%; Germany, 3%; France, 1%

Patients who waited 4 weeks or longer to see a specialist, after they were advised
or decided to see one in the last 2 years: Country results from highest to lowest

Canada, 56% (below average); Norway, 52%; New Zealand, 44%; Sweden, 42%;
United Kingdom, 37%; Commonwealth Fund average, 36%; France, 36%; Australia, 35%;
Germany, 25%; United States, 24%; Netherlands, 23%; Switzerland, 22%

Patients who waited 4 months or longer for elective surgery in last 2 years: Country
results from highest to lowest
Canada, 18% (below average); New Zealand, 15%; Norway, 15%; United Kingdom, 12%;
Sweden, 12%; Commonwealth Fund average, 9%; Australia, 8%; Switzerland, 6%;
Netherlands, 4%; United States, 3%; France, 2%; Germany, 0%

BUT, and it's a big BUT, for all the faults in the Canadian health care system, it's better than this shit.

Within last year, had a medical problem but did not visit a doctor because of the cost:
Country results from highest to lowest
United States, 22%; Switzerland, 16%; New Zealand, 14%; Australia, 9%; France, 9%;
Commonwealth Fund average, 9%; Canada, 6% (above average); Norway, 5%;
United Kingdom, 4%; Netherlands, 3%; Sweden, 3%; Germany, 3%
 
an article hinting in the right direction, but still being far too lenient on the true culprits: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...he-fuse/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a92f9da31f57

It is a requirement of the political exile to write a book decrying the forces that drove you away. The task becomes a bit awkward, however, when you’re exiled not from your old country but just your old green room; when your former comrades are not in hiding but in power; when you insist that you’re the same while everyone else has suddenly changed, even if the changes began long ago and you chose not to notice.

When, that is, you’re a Never Trump conservative trying to survive in Trump’s America.

.....

In their books, the Never Trumpers express both outrage and disillusionment; they revel in their excommunication and bemoan their newfound isolation.

Yet they often falter when reckoning with their own role, witting or not, in what came to pass. If conservatism has been hijacked by Trump, as they argue, who left it so vulnerable? These writers pose the question, but their answers feel like mere feints at accountability, more meh culpa than mea culpa. The Never Trumpers hold everyone culpable for the appeal of Trumpism except, in any worthwhile way, themselves.

.....


"For me 2016 was a brutal, disorienting, disillusioning slog,” Sykes, a former longtime conservative radio host, writes in the introduction to his 2017 book, among the earliest of the genre. “There came a moment when I realized that conservatives had created an alternative reality bubble and that I had perhaps helped shape it . . . Did we — did I — contribute to this prairie fire of bigotry and xenophobia that seemed to grip so many on the Right?”

This dramatic query proves largely rhetorical, however, with Sykes faulting himself mainly for benign neglect. “For years, we ignored the birthers, the racists, the truthers, and other conspiracy theorists,” he writes. “We treated them like your obnoxious uncle at Thanksgiving . . . whose quirks could be indulged or at least ignored.” Sykes did so hoping that “the center would always hold, things would not fall apart, and principled conservatives would rise to the occasion. Except they didn’t.” Now he denounces the abandonment of gradualism, civility and expertise, and he worries about the “repudiation of the conservative mind” — a repudiation that transpired while respectable, indulgent conservatives such as him waited for someone else to yell, “Stop!”

......


Wilson, a veteran Republican campaign strategist, cops to “a stirring bit of guilt” for his role in creating the “Frankenstein monster” that became the Republican base in the Obama years. “We fed the monster and trained it,” he acknowledges in his book’s introduction. “Then Trump came along. We lost control of those tools, the party, and the movement. The monster is out of its cage.” A true first-person, insider account of the creation and unleashing of the base could have made for a stirring read. But beyond noting that he should have seen it coming — “let’s get this mea culpa out of the way,” Wilson writes — he spends nearly all 300-plus pages of his book blaming everyone else for the outcome of his experiment.

......

The election of Trump sent the author on “a painful and difficult intellectual journey.” During that journey, he comes to regret his stubborn advocacy for the Iraq War and decides that his free-market ideology contributed to the economic troubles of Trump supporters.

Yet Boot, who now writes for The Washington Post’s opinion page, is caught in a contradiction he seems not to notice. He spends chunks of the book criticizing GOP leaders “willing to discard their principles” to strengthen their power and avoid Trump’s Twitter wrath. Congressional Republicans now represent a party with few defining conservative values, he writes, other than promoting Trump’s compulsion of the moment. House Speaker Paul Ryan (“a pathetic appeaser”) and Sen. Rubio (“I thought he was a man of principle”) come in for particular grief. “How could all these eminences that I had worked with, and respected, sell out their professed principles?”

Except Boot also argues that grand conservative principles are all tainted, anyway. “Upon closer examination, it’s obvious that the whole history of modern conservatism is permeated with racism, extremism, conspiracy-mongering, ignorance, isolationism, and know-nothingism,” he writes. With the convert’s zeal (Boot switched from Republican to independent the day after the 2016 election), the author now glimpses conservatism’s dark side. “It’s amazing how little you can see when your eyes are closed!” he writes. Boot, who began subscribing to National Review at age 13, admits here that he had never read Barry Goldwater’s “actual words,” and now that he has, he has decided the late Arizona senator and conservative luminary was an extremist. (I hear that Goldwater may even have given a speech to that effect.) It’s a remarkable admission for a self-described movement conservative and “sophisticate.” Boot confesses to have undergone a decades-long “brainwashing,” at times having simply parroted standard conservative views without grasping the underlying issues.

“I have spent most of my life as part of a political movement that has revealed itself to be morally and intellectually bankrupt,” Boot writes. “This is a chastening lesson about the price of loyalty.”

....

Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona has certainly read his Goldwater, and he takes the title of his eloquent 2017 manifesto from Goldwater’s 1960 book. He worries that the Republican Party, once the “party of ideas,” has suffered a crisis of confidence, embracing instead the politics of incoherence. “Never has a party so quickly or easily abandoned its core principles as my party did in the course of the 2016 campaign,” he writes. “We conservatives too often didn’t have the courage of our convictions. Call us willing accomplices. The instant a flashy new novelty act came along, shredding conservative orthodoxy in the name of ‘telling it like it is,’ we bailed.” He says this conservative collapse happened “seemingly overnight,” though he notes that the broader governance failures afflicting Washington date far before the 2016 race, including to the Gingrich era in Congress. “We poisoned the civic fountain from which we all drink,” he writes, “with predictable results.”

Flake, who has frustrated supporters as well as opponents of the president by criticizing Trump in high-profile speeches while usually voting in line with his positions (the senator is a conservative, after all), calls for renewed introspection on the right. “We must never shirk our obligation to examine ourselves,” he admonishes. Yet throughout the book, Flake relies heavily on the “we” pronoun, which serves to diffuse responsibility as much as assign it. “We all but ensured the rise of Donald Trump,” Flake writes. Who is we?

The lone instance in his book where Flake reconsiders a specific action of his own involves his 2008 House vote against the massive Troubled Asset Relief Program. He opposed the TARP bailout package to showcase his fiscal prudence while privately hoping it would pass. “At a moment of national and global crisis, that vote was an abdication of my responsibility,” he now writes. It’s a valuable insight — that maintaining ideological purity to score political points is a sham — but a single, decade-old anecdote seems to stop short of the courageous soul-searching Flake considers obligatory.

.....

But what kind of conservatism can survive, let alone thrive, in American politics today?.....Flake, who did not seek reelection and is departing the Senate after a single term, keeps the faith. “With hard work . . . and maybe a little luck, we will right this ship,” he writes. He calls for “a conservatism of high ideals, goodwill, and even better arguments.”...... Boot, by contrast, no longer claims the conservative label. And while he admires some of the Never Trumpers who stay and fight to retake the Republican Party, he deems the battle lost. The GOP has become “the stupid party,” one that “does not deserve to survive.”......Wilson regards the future of conservatism with a mix of honesty, generality and banality. There was always “a whiff of bulls—” about Republican calls for fiscal conservatism, he acknowledges, much as how “we talk a good game about putting Main Street before Wall Street, but talk is all it’s been.” .....Sykes calls for “restoring the conservative mind,” yet he admits there may be little audience for it. “Despite [conservatives’] insistence that America was a center-right country, there has never been a strong constituency for the kind of tough budget cuts that would either limit the size of government or reduce the national debt.” He urges conservatives to step back from win-at-all-costs politics in which opponents are demonized and the stakes are exaggerated to apocalyptic dimensions. “We simply should not care about politics as much as we do,” he writes, “because it should not be as important as it has become.” Now you tell us.

.....

With these books, the Never Trumpers are engaging in a worthy exercise, even if it’s one they are executing with varying degrees of consistency, clarity and introspection. Yet it took the nomination and election of Donald Trump to make it happen. In a sense, the Never Trumpers are also the Only Trumpers. Only with the rise of Trump did they even think to interrogate the conservative dogma they’d long defended. Only with Trump did they begin to reconsider their roles in feeding a frenzied base. Only with Trump did they see the need to reach for higher ideals.

Had Trump come close but failed to win the 2016 Republican nomination, had the GOP establishment and donor networks eked out one more mainstream nominee while still capitalizing on the angry, conspiratorial base to run against the Democrats, these books would not exist. The conscience and corrosion of conservatism, the mind of the right, would remain unexamined.

Only with Trump. Maybe they should thank him.


Exactly right.

The Never Trumpers have finally realized that the real problem was that modern conservative "policy" was based on bullshit at a very fundamental level. However they only hesitatingly admit their own fault in promoting that BS.

it wasn't Trump who caused this, he was just an inevitable response to decades of structural BS. Policies not just tainted by little lies, but based entirely on big lies.

and that is the real problem right now, not any of the #bothsidesing of political corruption.
 
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I've had to wait a long time in walk in clinics. Some are quick, others much less so. There are family doctor shortages all across the country right now, I think its generally worst in rural areas.

In Halifax there are not really many walk-in options. On the peninsula, there are only three, two near the city centre. There are more outside the city centre, but I'm not sure how many.

Overall though I won't complain too much, I've always done pretty well by our system.

Canadians suffer from this problem called living next to the United States of America.

If we were to compare the care with get with the care those in the EU get, we wouldn't be saying things like "done pretty well by our system".
 
I'm glad we have established a standard for what you believe constitutes "hugely significant" action by Congress. I will keep this standard in mind when evaluating future steps by Congress.
1. The Senate has never voted to stop unauthorized US involvement in war.
2. Since Eisenhower, every US president has launched attacks on countries without congressional authorization.
3. This unauthorized warfare has been increasingly common.
4. Any step for the US Senate to assert its authority in these unconstitutional wars is significant.
5. That Sanders pushed this and got bipartisan support in a Republican controlled Senate is yuge.

I'm also unsure why you and to a lesser extent habsy object to my characterization of this bill so much. I never disputed that this was unprecedented, in fact I think I specifically alluded to it in one of my first posts on the subject. And I support it. I mean it's a big deal to see the Senate rebuke the president like this, but in the age of Trump I'm not really surprised - what used to be unprecedented is now just Wednesday.
I believe you said we had no reason to be happy about it.

It's a mischaracterization, however, to call it a rebuke of Trump. It was Obama who failed to get congressional authorization. Trump has continued this. The bipartisan nature of its illegality is a key reason the bill got bipartisan support.

I just keep pointing out that in terms of actually having a tangible impact on the conflict in Yemen, this doesn't move the needle at all.

I don't think anyone is missing the fact that there's still a lot of work to do to get this passed. To say it doesn't move the needle at all is factually wrong. I appreciate the cynicism (it's tough to be too cynical about the US congress), but this will put huge pressure on the House to pass it in the new year. The recent (lame duck) house vote on this was very close already (which included 7 dem abstentions).
 
Canadians suffer from this problem called living next to the United States of America.

If we were to compare the care with get with the care those in the EU get, we wouldn't be saying things like "done pretty well by our system".

except in my case its true.

I've never had a problem getting a family doctor until recently, and even then, I went less than six months without one.

I've never had a problem getting an appointment with my doctor when I need one. I've never had to wait overly long to see a specialist.

When I was a student out of province I had access to care, plus coverage for things like physio.

The only times that have been annoying were the times I had to wait in the ER. And even then, I think the worst was about six hours overnight when I broke my arm and wrist in a cycling accident.

So I guess I'd like to see ER wait times decrease. But otherwise, I've done well.
 
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