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OT: American Politics

hockeylover said:
How would women get the same opportunities as men in the workplace if men are claiming they’re afraid to be around them? How is that winning?

Do I not get the promotion because someone thinks they can’t be in a room with me alone?

Holy crap, this board :(
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what would make you happy? please tell me.

is it changing male behaviour? changing male institutions of control? I think that with policies like the above, that is precisely what we're doing. underlining and institutionalizing for men in power that you don't use alone time with female subordinates for anything unprofessional. It's certainly not that all bosses are sexist pigs, but having someone else there for opposite sex meetings would eliminate harassment in those cases where it might have occurred. I see nothing wrong with this. And neither should you.

changing the ways we interact at work should be precisely what women have always wanted. Not only that, I'm afraid it's the only way to help address these huge harassment and abuse issues that exist, at least insofar as those can happen in a work context.

Changing the rules is the way we do that.

will there be side effects? consequences? sure.

but nothing is perfect.
 
what would make you happy? please tell me.
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It’d make pretty happy if, in response to a male in power saying he needs a witness to protect himself from all these evil women out to falsely accuse him, the men I posted with daily didn’t say “Yup, good idea, everyone wins!”. Because as you acknowledged, it’s not perfect, there are consequences and everyone doesn’t win.
 
hockeylover said:
So is the only way to avoid potentially getting deprived of opportunities is for women to stay silent then? It’s women’s fault?
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Some women ****ed it up for other women.

When me too started, it was about exposing the serial rapists like Cosby and those who blackmailed women into sex like Weinstein. I think everyone was on board with that.

Then it moved from the legitimate scumbags to guys like Erin Weir, guilty of invading personal space. Patrick Brown, guilty of picking up underage women, oh wait, they lied about that, they were 19, guilty of coming on to womenthen respecting their wishes to go home and driving them home.

Metoo went after the feminist prime minister, guilty, ironically in terms of this discussion, of groping a female reporter.

At that point metoo jumped the shark and a lot of men have come to the realization (like trudeau) that two people can remember the same event very differently, and its best to cover their ****ing ass, with witness in a lot of cases.

So now we have the workplace segregation taking place to protect women from sexual assault and men from being potentially falsely accused.

All because some women think that Erin Weir talking too close to them is somehow on par with bill Cosby drugging and raping them.

Bravo Metoo
 
Altair said:
Some women ****ed it up for other women.

When me too started, it was about exposing the serial rapists like Cosby and those who blackmailed women into sex like Weinstein. I think everyone was on board with that.

Then it moved from the legitimate scumbags to guys like Erin Weir, guilty of invading personal space. Patrick Brown, guilty of picking up underage women, oh wait, they lied about that, they were 19, guilty of coming on to womenthen respecting their wishes to go home and driving them home.

Metoo went after the feminist prime minister, guilty, ironically in terms of this discussion, of groping a female reporter.

At that point metoo jumped the shark and a lot of men have come to the realization (like trudeau) that two people can remember the same event very differently, and its best to cover their ****ing ass, with witness in a lot of cases.

So now we have the workplace segregation taking place to protect women from sexual assault and men from being potentially falsely accused.

All because some women think that Erin Weir talking too close to them is somehow on par with bill Cosby drugging and raping them.

Bravo Metoo
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This is a horrible post.
 
hockeylover said:
It’d make pretty happy if, in response to a male in power saying he needs a witness to protect himself from all these evil women out to falsely accuse him, the men I posted with daily didn’t say “Yup, good idea, everyone wins!”. Because as you acknowledged, it’s not perfect, there are consequences and everyone doesn’t win.
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It's neither an attack on you nor a defence of anybody who claims that evil women who accuse falsely is even the primary factor here.

Change is hard. It might not feel like you thought it would.
 
Altair said:
Some women ****ed it up for other women.

When me too started, it was about exposing the serial rapists like Cosby and those who blackmailed women into sex like Weinstein. I think everyone was on board with that.

Then it moved from the legitimate scumbags to guys like Erin Weir, guilty of invading personal space. Patrick Brown, guilty of picking up underage women, oh wait, they lied about that, they were 19, guilty of coming on to womenthen respecting their wishes to go home and driving them home.

Metoo went after the feminist prime minister, guilty, ironically in terms of this discussion, of groping a female reporter.

At that point metoo jumped the shark and a lot of men have come to the realization (like trudeau) that two people can remember the same event very differently, and its best to cover their ****ing ass, with witness in a lot of cases.

So now we have the workplace segregation taking place to protect women from sexual assault and men from being potentially falsely accused.

All because some women think that Erin Weir talking too close to them is somehow on par with bill Cosby drugging and raping them.

Bravo Metoo
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not helping.
 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4737511

"Over the past weeks, since this news resurfaced, I've been reflecting, we've all been reflecting, on past behaviours," he said. "And as I've said, I'm confident I didn't act inappropriately, but I think the essence of this is people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men.
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Take away from this? If Justin ****ing Trudeau can be accused of groping a reporter, any man can. What do men do? They aren't allowing themselves to be in a room alone with a woman. Because

"people can experience interactions differently and part of the lesson we need to learn in this moment of collective awakening ... people in many cases, women, experience interactions in professional contexts and other contexts differently than men."

Again, our feminist prime minister.
 
Altair said:
What did I say that was untrue?

Again, I've been saying this for a while. Metoo was going to have consequences if it was left to run amok. It was left to run amok and here are the consequences.

I'm not going to sugar coat it.
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you're trying to cast aspersions on whether the assaults really happened.

not a really productive debate, at this point. and not my point at all.

I'm trying to have a debate about a social change in the workplace with a female poster who I respect and would prefer to stay here, despite the sensitivity of this topic and how we differ on it.
 
Altair said:
What did I say that was untrue?
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You have this ridiculous expectation that #metoo or any other movement will be infallible on a micro level.

Everything based on human nature will have flaws. Metoo was mostly positive because it started much needed conversation, introspection and self awareness. Some of it will be messy.

What I know for sure is that drawing rigid lines such as “the only woman I can talk to is my wife”
is an immature and absurd response.
 
Volcanologist said:
you're trying to cast aspersions on whether the assaults really happened.

not a really productive debate, at this point. and not my point at all.

I'm trying to have a debate about a social change in the workplace with a female poster who I respect and would prefer to stay here, despite the sensitivity of this topic and how we differ on it.
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She asked me a question, I answered it.
 
CH1 said:
You have this ridiculous expectation that #metoo or any other movement will be infallible on a micro level.

Everything based on human nature will have flaws. Metoo was mostly positive because it started much needed conversation, introspection and self awareness. Some of it will be messy.

What I know for sure is that drawing rigid lines such as “the only woman I can talk to is my wife”
is an immature and absurd response.
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The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Metoo started off well, then it got messy. As a result of said messiness, we are seeing this response which more or less amounts to workplace segregation.

I expected nothing less, I'm more surprised that people are surprised that this would be the response.
 
Altair said:
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Metoo started off well, then it got messy. As a result of said messiness, we are seeing this response which more or less amounts to workplace segregation.

I expected nothing less, I'm more surprised that people are surprised that this would be the response.
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You don’t get it. Sex, power and equality are messy. Don’t be a toddler about it.
 
CH1 said:
You don’t get it. Sex, power and equality are messy. Don’t be a toddler about it.
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My workplace, the Canadian Armed Forces, has a policy where if I want to talk to my supervisor I can walk into his office and close the door but my female coworker has to wait until the supervisor understands what it is she wants to talk about, who has the need to know, where that person who has the need to know is, wait for them to get there, and then close the door, because its not appropriate for them to be in a situation where a man and a woman are one on one in a enclosed environment.

Same thing goes if I have a female supervisor but those are fewer and farther between.


https://www.canada.ca/en/department.../operation-honour/about-operation-honour.html

Who is being a toddler here?
 
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