OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
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CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
pretty good take in New Yorker. Excerpts here sum up my feelings.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/michael-cohen-and-the-end-stage-of-the-trump-presidency?mbid=social_twitter
Some have been skeptical of the idea that President Trump himself knowingly colluded with Russian officials. It seems not at all Trumpian to participate in a complex plan with a long-term, uncertain payoff. Collusion is an imprecise word, but it does seem close to certain that his son Donald, Jr., and several people who worked for him colluded with people close to the Kremlin; it is up to prosecutors and then the courts to figure out if this was illegal or merely deceitful. We may have a hard time finding out what President Trump himself knew and approved.
However, I am unaware of anybody who has taken a serious look at Trump’s business who doesn’t believe that there is a high likelihood of rampant criminality. In Azerbaijan, he did business with a likely money launderer for Iran’s Revolutionary Guard. In the Republic of Georgia, he partnered with a group that was being investigated for a possible role in the largest known bank-fraud and money-laundering case in history. In Indonesia, his development partner is “knee-deep in dirty politics”; there are criminal investigations of his deals in Brazil; the F.B.I. is reportedly looking into his daughter Ivanka’s role in the Trump hotel in Vancouver, for which she worked with a Malaysian family that has admitted to financial fraud. Back home, Donald, Jr., and Ivanka were investigated for financial crimes associated with the Trump hotel in SoHo—an investigation that was halted suspiciously. His Taj Mahal casino received what was then the largest fine in history for money-laundering violations.
The narrative that will become widely understood is that Donald Trump did not sit atop a global empire. He was not an intuitive genius and tough guy who created billions of dollars of wealth through fearlessness. He had a small, sad operation, mostly run by his two oldest children and Michael Cohen, a lousy lawyer who barely keeps up the pretenses of lawyering and who now faces an avalanche of charges, from taxicab-backed bank fraud to money laundering and campaign-finance violations.
Cohen, Donald, Jr., and Ivanka monetized their willingness to sign contracts with people rejected by all sensible partners. Even in this, the Trump Organization left money on the table, taking a million dollars here, five million there, even though the service they provided—giving branding legitimacy to blatantly sketchy projects—was worth far more. It was not a company that built value over decades, accumulating assets and leveraging wealth. It burned through whatever good will and brand value it established as quickly as possible, then moved on to the next scheme.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/michael-cohen-and-the-end-stage-of-the-trump-presidency?mbid=social_twitter
Some have been skeptical of the idea that President Trump himself knowingly colluded with Russian officials. It seems not at all Trumpian to participate in a complex plan with a long-term, uncertain payoff. Collusion is an imprecise word, but it does seem close to certain that his son Donald, Jr., and several people who worked for him colluded with people close to the Kremlin; it is up to prosecutors and then the courts to figure out if this was illegal or merely deceitful. We may have a hard time finding out what President Trump himself knew and approved.
However, I am unaware of anybody who has taken a serious look at Trump’s business who doesn’t believe that there is a high likelihood of rampant criminality. In Azerbaijan, he did business with a likely money launderer for Iran’s Revolutionary Guard. In the Republic of Georgia, he partnered with a group that was being investigated for a possible role in the largest known bank-fraud and money-laundering case in history. In Indonesia, his development partner is “knee-deep in dirty politics”; there are criminal investigations of his deals in Brazil; the F.B.I. is reportedly looking into his daughter Ivanka’s role in the Trump hotel in Vancouver, for which she worked with a Malaysian family that has admitted to financial fraud. Back home, Donald, Jr., and Ivanka were investigated for financial crimes associated with the Trump hotel in SoHo—an investigation that was halted suspiciously. His Taj Mahal casino received what was then the largest fine in history for money-laundering violations.
The narrative that will become widely understood is that Donald Trump did not sit atop a global empire. He was not an intuitive genius and tough guy who created billions of dollars of wealth through fearlessness. He had a small, sad operation, mostly run by his two oldest children and Michael Cohen, a lousy lawyer who barely keeps up the pretenses of lawyering and who now faces an avalanche of charges, from taxicab-backed bank fraud to money laundering and campaign-finance violations.
Cohen, Donald, Jr., and Ivanka monetized their willingness to sign contracts with people rejected by all sensible partners. Even in this, the Trump Organization left money on the table, taking a million dollars here, five million there, even though the service they provided—giving branding legitimacy to blatantly sketchy projects—was worth far more. It was not a company that built value over decades, accumulating assets and leveraging wealth. It burned through whatever good will and brand value it established as quickly as possible, then moved on to the next scheme.
CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Also:
This week, we learned that Cohen has been under criminal investigation for months—his e-mails have been read, presumably his phones have been tapped, and his meetings have been monitored. Trump has long declared a red line: Robert Mueller must not investigate his businesses, and must only look at any possible collusion with Russia. That red line is now crossed and, for Trump, in the most troubling of ways. Even if he were to fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and then had Mueller and his investigation put on ice, and even if—as is disturbingly possible—Congress did nothing, the Cohen prosecution would continue. Even if Trump pardons Cohen, the information the Feds have on him can become the basis for charges against others in the Trump Organization.
Cohen was the key intermediary between the Trump family and its partners around the world; he was chief consigliere and dealmaker throughout its period of expansion into global partnerships with sketchy oligarchs. He wasn’t a slick politico who showed up for a few months. He knows everything, he recorded much of it, and now prosecutors will know it, too. It seems inevitable that much will be made public. We don’t know when. We don’t know the precise path the next few months will take. There will be resistance and denial and counterattacks. But it seems likely that, when we look back on this week, we will see it as a turning point. We are now in the end stages of the Trump Presidency.
This week, we learned that Cohen has been under criminal investigation for months—his e-mails have been read, presumably his phones have been tapped, and his meetings have been monitored. Trump has long declared a red line: Robert Mueller must not investigate his businesses, and must only look at any possible collusion with Russia. That red line is now crossed and, for Trump, in the most troubling of ways. Even if he were to fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and then had Mueller and his investigation put on ice, and even if—as is disturbingly possible—Congress did nothing, the Cohen prosecution would continue. Even if Trump pardons Cohen, the information the Feds have on him can become the basis for charges against others in the Trump Organization.
Cohen was the key intermediary between the Trump family and its partners around the world; he was chief consigliere and dealmaker throughout its period of expansion into global partnerships with sketchy oligarchs. He wasn’t a slick politico who showed up for a few months. He knows everything, he recorded much of it, and now prosecutors will know it, too. It seems inevitable that much will be made public. We don’t know when. We don’t know the precise path the next few months will take. There will be resistance and denial and counterattacks. But it seems likely that, when we look back on this week, we will see it as a turning point. We are now in the end stages of the Trump Presidency.
zeke
Well-known member
zeke
Well-known member
Manu Raju @mkraju
“The Sunday night filing places the President directly in opposition to the wishes of one of the most significant US attorney's offices...and marks the first time the President's legal representatives have waded into an ongoing criminal matter,” @kpolantz cnn.com/2018/04/15/pol…
“The Sunday night filing places the President directly in opposition to the wishes of one of the most significant US attorney's offices...and marks the first time the President's legal representatives have waded into an ongoing criminal matter,” @kpolantz cnn.com/2018/04/15/pol…
CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Imagine all the dirty laundry hiding in Cohen's office....
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
The Trump Syndicate needed money and business from and with people who had to kiss Putin’s ring, lest they be poisoned.
And since the KGB knew the Trump Syndicate was willing to play ball on their kleptocratic terms, the orphan meeting at Trump Tower makes sense. Trump et al were likely viewed as desperate and crooked, this could have been an opportunistic seller wooing and opportunistic buyer. These idiots would have grabbed any advantage they could find to help a rudderless election campaign, and may have bumbled into being accessories to stolen emails and perhaps illegal campaign financing (e.g. NRA, allegedly). To the extent there was “collusion”, it may have been that.
As far as the financial misdeeds are concerned, I suspect they are eye popping. And I expect we’ll learn more about what Kushner did re: new financing for the huge debt that come due next year, that shit might be hair raising.
And since the KGB knew the Trump Syndicate was willing to play ball on their kleptocratic terms, the orphan meeting at Trump Tower makes sense. Trump et al were likely viewed as desperate and crooked, this could have been an opportunistic seller wooing and opportunistic buyer. These idiots would have grabbed any advantage they could find to help a rudderless election campaign, and may have bumbled into being accessories to stolen emails and perhaps illegal campaign financing (e.g. NRA, allegedly). To the extent there was “collusion”, it may have been that.
As far as the financial misdeeds are concerned, I suspect they are eye popping. And I expect we’ll learn more about what Kushner did re: new financing for the huge debt that come due next year, that shit might be hair raising.
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Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
It truly amazes me that people are ok with the blatant raping of privacy. Each and every one of you would be pissed if this subterfuge was performed on you. The piercing of attorney client privilege is a dangerously slippery slope and shouldn’t be condoned so lightly. If anything is leaked outside the purview of the investigation (and don’t hand me this separate investigation farce) due process is dead in America.
Mueller set this up as a back door. This is not about criminality on Trump, this is about impeachment. Plain and simple. What has gone down so far disgusts me to the core. They better have something big on Cohen to explain this one off.
Mueller set this up as a back door. This is not about criminality on Trump, this is about impeachment. Plain and simple. What has gone down so far disgusts me to the core. They better have something big on Cohen to explain this one off.
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
Cohen wasn’t providing legal advice to Trump. There is no privilege.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
You simply can’t seize all documents then look for a crime. The crime has to be stated in the warrant. What you guys are talking about basically amounts to a free for all on anyone associated with Cohen which are the Trumps.
Surely you see the subterfuge being used. Either you’re being willfully blind or you think the ends justify the means.
Surely you see the subterfuge being used. Either you’re being willfully blind or you think the ends justify the means.
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
WTF are you talking about? The PC would have been presented to the judge that signed the warrant and they have to have a taint team in place since Cohen is a technically a lawyer.
Are you suggesting a judge signed off on a raid without cause?
Are you suggesting a judge signed off on a raid without cause?
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lecoqsportif
Well-known member
Cohen was a business colleague who happened to be a lawyer, but he did not provide legal opinion/advice that would constitute privilege. He spent most of his time with Dotard Jr and Ivanka in the former Soviet Union.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Nope, I’m suggesting information outside that PC will eventually be leaked. Circular subterfuge. Mueller refers to NY. NY reads everything and anything. Any potential issue outside the nature of the warrant will still be read then referred back to mueller if pertinent to Mueller’s investigation. For all intents and purposes Mueller will now have access to information that was beyond his initial purview. It’s a smart move but underhanded
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
The higher courts may not agree. I’m thinking they won’t. The damage will have been done though.
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
If it’s pertinent (i.e. criminal) to Mueller’s investigation, isn’t SDNY obliged to refer back? That’s the law.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
It is apparent to me though that many people are willing to just give up freedoms and privacy because it’s not them being targeted and if it’s someone they hate then they give it up even more freely. People don’t realize that once the precedence has been set then they’re ****ed... eventually. Don’t tread on me.