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Thread: OT: American Politics

  1. #21
    Legend MapleLeafBlueJayBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    No problem, I mean it.

  2. #22
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    If the question is can Mitt Romney win? The answer is yes.
    I agree....sort of. The question in my mind, from an analytical standpoint is: How crazy is the Republican base really?

    Now, I know that's an inflammatory question the way I word it, but it's not an outlandish question to ask considering the tea party/hard right evangelist movement of the last 2-3 years.

    Do the sane Republicans who will vote for a good political operator who has a track record of success in both the private and public world outnumber the loons who won't vote for him because he's a Mormon who built the best bit of socialized medicine the US has ever seen in Mass?

    Romney is though, as I've stated, the only one who can seriously challenge Obama. The loons terrify swing voters.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  3. #23
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MapleLeafBlueJayBoy View Post
    Romney wins but then has to go up against the President and bad mouth healthcare. Then will try and bad mouth him about the downgrade when he lobbied and raised taxes to get his states rating up. He is a Democrats dream. Then the flip flop on gay marriage, abortion.
    Honestly, if Romney wins the nomination, I think he's safe from that particular criticism...the people most likely to make that particular criticism aren't voting Obama for any reason at all, ever. It's just an issue that Romney will go great lengths to avoid. Romney and his machine will make this a on issue election, and the US public will buy it. This will be a referendum on the economy and the question will be whether or not enough swing voters buy that the Republican ideology can get them out of this mess.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    obama needs to do two things to secure a 2012 victory:

    (1) put together a coherent economic policy that results in (near immediate) real job growth. easier said than done but the people need to see some real results. job creation has fared better than the unemployment figure tells us, but that isn't good enough. unemployment has to drop.

    (2) start selling americans on the success of his policies. mindzeye, you pointed out earlier in the week that health care reform has already resulted in some spending cuts; the people have to hear about that. he has to highlight the fact that the TARP spending did help to stabilize the economy when it looked to be in peril, that it did preserve (and in fact create some) jobs, that it did prevent catastrophic meltdown. he needs to point out the success in libya: successfully ousting a regime without a single american casualty. he has to highlight successes in afghanistan after his petraeus appointment. he got osama, too.

    the truth is that he has had some significant legislative achievements, but hasn't done a good job of selling them to the public. there were, of course, a few big missteps as well, but on those counts obama is going to have to really lay the blame at the feet of congress (mainly on debt ceiling issue). in the next 12 months he needs to show himself as a confident and assertive leader, and demonstrate how he has helped the country and the economy. he has made it really difficult for himself because he has expended practically all of his political capital. but the achievements are there, he just needs to sell them.

    of course, none of that might matter in a campaign against romney. imo, he's the only republican candidate with a legitimate shot to beat obama. let's face it -- the economy is still going to be in bad shape come november 2012 -- and romney can very easily sell himself as the sort of wall street type who can rescue the nation from the financial abyss. he can point to the political leadership experience in massachusetts. he also has shown enough centrist tendencies (maybe even if he disavows some) to keep the moderates happy.

    really, it should be an easy selection for repubs but unfortunately too many loons are on the saddle. if they push through pArry (i don't think bachmann has a chance) they will get slaughtered. to be honest, i'm not even sure if pArry could hold down 40% of the vote (i know bachmann couldn't). romney, however, is a good candidate on all fronts, and would give them their best shot at victory.

  5. #25
    Hall of Famer HabsAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post

    .......outlandish question to ask considering the tea party/hard right evangelist movement of the last 2-3 years.

    s.
    Evangelical movement? Only in your mind.

    The Tea Party is 90% economic oriented. The other 10% is cause de jour by any right group, which of course is what the media and headline puppets repeat.
    The only thing that counts is winning.

  6. #26
    Hall of Famer HabsAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by msun30 View Post

    really, it should be an easy selection for repubs but unfortunately too many loons are on the saddle. if they push through pArry (i don't think bachmann has a chance) they will get slaughtered. to be honest, i'm not even sure if pArry could hold down 40% of the vote (i know bachmann couldn't). romney, however, is a good candidate on all fronts, and would give them their best shot at victory.
    The "loons" as you call them care more about getting rid of obama then their individual causes. What is not negotiable is garbage like cap-n-trade or another stimulus/debt blowout. As for obamacare, the courts will give it a nice body blow. The obama regime want to keep this from happening until 2013. Romney can then sell obamacare as a failed project without having to fight it head on. With obamacare whacked, obama has nothing to show for his tenure other then economic misery.

    Romney will beat obama. So now we have to settle in for endless media spin of evil doing for every fart Romney takes.

    This is going to go in front of a right wing Supreme Court.. Good luck.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    By Jeremy Pelofsky and James Vicini

    WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama’s signature healthcare law suffered a setback Friday when a U.S. appeals court ruled that it was unconstitutional to require all Americans to buy insurance or face a penalty.

    The U.S. Appeals Court for the 11th Circuit, based in Atlanta, ruled 2 to 1 that Congress exceeded its authority by requiring Americans to buy coverage, but it unanimously reversed a lower court decision that threw out the entire law.

    The legality of the individual mandate, a cornerstone of the healthcare law, is widely expected to be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. Opponents have argued that without the mandate, which goes into effect in 2014, the entire law falls.

    The law, adopted by Congress in 2010 after a bruising battle, is expected to be a major political issue in the 2012 elections as Obama seeks another term. All the major Republican presidential candidates have opposed it.

    Obama has championed the individual mandate as a major accomplishment of his presidency and as a way to try to slow the soaring costs of healthcare while expanding coverage to the more than 30 million Americans without it.

    The White House voiced confidence the law would be upheld. “We strongly disagree with this decision and we are confident it will not stand,” Obama aide Stephanie Cutter said in a statement.

    Because it conflicts with another appeals court ruling that upheld the law, the Supreme Court is expected to take it up during its term that begins in October with a ruling possible just months before the November 2012 presidential election.

    Legal experts said it was impossible to predict how the high court will rule but agreed that it may be a close vote by nine ideologically divided justices, with moderate conservative Justice Anthony Kennedy as the possible swing vote.

    More....

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/08...hallenge-rise/
    The only thing that counts is winning.

  7. #27
    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Addict, will you decry Mitt (and what kind of a name is Mitt anyway) as a socialist for having socialized medicine?
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

    Donald Trump, the gift that keeps on giving.

  8. #28
    Hall of Famer HabsAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    Honestly, if Romney wins the nomination, I think he's safe from that particular criticism...the people most likely to make that particular criticism aren't voting Obama for any reason at all, ever. It's just an issue that Romney will go great lengths to avoid. Romney and his machine will make this a on issue election, and the US public will buy it. This will be a referendum on the economy and the question will be whether or not enough swing voters buy that the Republican ideology can get them out of this mess.
    Bingo. As the saying goes.....It's about the economy stupid.

    The swing votes just need someone who is not far right to vote Republican. This is why the lefty media machine will go into hyperdrive to link even the most modest Republican economic policy to "far right Tea Party lunacy".
    The only thing that counts is winning.

  9. #29
    Hall of Famer HabsAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountofMonteCristo View Post
    Addict, will you decry Mitt (and what kind of a name is Mitt anyway) as a socialist for having socialized medicine?
    1. Do you know where I stand on that? You don't.

    2. The enemy of my enemy is my......good buddy.
    The only thing that counts is winning.

  10. #30
    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    but will christian america vote for a mormom?
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

    Donald Trump, the gift that keeps on giving.

  11. #31
    Canadiens & 'News & Views' Moderator TheCountofMonteCristo's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by HabsAddict View Post
    1. Do you know where I stand on that? You don't.

    2. The enemy of my enemy is my......good buddy.
    but why is Obama your enemy, what has he done to you?
    "The next game is the test unless we win" CanadienFan

    Donald Trump, the gift that keeps on giving.

  12. #32
    Legend worm's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    obama is like subban
    ...

  13. #33
    Hall of Famer HabsAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountofMonteCristo View Post
    but why is Obama your enemy, what has he done to you?
    I'm an economic conservative........and obama is the devil to that.
    The only thing that counts is winning.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by worm View Post
    obama is like subban
    obama can't be Subban. Telepromters are not allowed on the ice.

    Besides, I'd change teams. LeafsAddict would hurt, but not as much as watching obama score into his own net....every game.


    The only thing that counts is winning.

  15. #35
    All-Star johnunit's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by HabsAddict View Post
    obama can't be Subban. Telepromters are not allowed on the ice.

    Besides, I'd change teams. LeafsAddict would hurt, but not as much as watching obama score into his own net....every game.


    what's always been one of the more bizarre slams on him. Using a teleprompter? Teleprompters have been commonplace with nearly every elected official since the 70s. You might as well bitch about him wearing suits too much.
    #TeamRaycroft

  16. #36
    Hall of Famer HabsAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by johnunit View Post
    what's always been one of the more bizarre slams on him. Using a teleprompter? Teleprompters have been commonplace with nearly every elected official since the 70s. You might as well bitch about him wearing suits too much.
    The left took every pause Bush made in a statement as proof that he was an idiot. So obama resorted to using teleprompters at every opportunity. Off telepromter, obama is as prone to "uhh's" as Bush was.
    The only thing that counts is winning.

  17. #37
    Leafs Moderator SundinsTooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    that's a fair point, in my opinion.

  18. #38
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by HabsAddict View Post
    Evangelical movement? Only in your mind.

    The Tea Party is 90% economic oriented. The other 10% is cause de jour by any right group, which of course is what the media and headline puppets repeat.
    Well, first of all, there's a reason that I separated the two with a "/" because they're not quite the same movement. But if you think that it's 90% an economic movement, you simply don't under the American right wing very well. Nothing on the far right is very far removed from their warped sense of WWJD.
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  19. #39
    Wayward Ditch Pig MindzEye's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    Besides, I'd change teams. LeafsAddict would hurt,
    Flip Floppers aren't welcome
    The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is required to produce it.

  20. #40
    Legend Metalleaf's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT - American Politics

    HawksAddict?

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