Bill Dauterive is gay? OMG
New Canadian Politics Thread
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
Altair
Well-known member
It's definitely disingenuous, but Trudeau and Co did kill two pipelines that would have helped Alberta during this crisis, and put in legislation that pretty much means that it wont be possible to build any more. I think Energy east was a lost opportunity in particular, as the feds could have threatened to withhold subsidies to Bombardier until Quebec got on board, and would have reduced Canadian dependency on Saudi oil. Instead they changed the rules to include downstream emissions which doesn't really make sense. C-48 is a tanker ban for the west coast, and C-69 will make it so no more pipelines can get approved in the future, so they do bring up the point that the liberals have not been friends of the oil industry.
That said, I don't believe they are responsible for the price of Alberta oil dropping from 70 dollars to 20 since july, but the industry has been fragile for a few years now and I can't say that Trudeau and company have been particularly helpful. I do know that if Bombardier was starting to go under, or the east coast fisheries, or the Ontario Auto industry, the feds would be there with plans on how to help, but have been conspicuously silent as the oil and gas industry dies a slow death.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I mean, I'm probably in the minority here, but the feds should be discouraging fossil fuel development and transitioning towards renewables. So I have no qualms with the oil industry taking a hit, whether by deliberate government action or indifference or world markets.
But I also cannot really think of anything Harper did that materially helped the oil sands.
It is a dying industry. Yes it is one we still rely on, and yes Canadian oil is better than Saudi oil. I get that we need oil. But I'm okay with the government not subsidizing the industry.
Altair
Well-known member
100% agree.
Oil and Gas is a dying industry.
But so is auto manufacturing. So is Canadian Aerospace. The Canadian auto plants are there mainly because of subsidies, which, once they run out, the plant closes. Bombardier is even worst. They exist simply due to government subsidies. Yet at the end of the day, Canadians continue to work in those industries, and the feds continue to support them. I don't agree with the federal government playing favorites, especially in the case of regional industries, because to favor Ontario, Quebec, the Atlantic provinces and BC while giving the shaft to Alberta and Saskatchewan isn't in the national interest.
Albertans will understandably begin to think federation is broken when they pay for equalization for Quebec and Ontario, Quebec and Ontario industries get federal government bailouts, and they cannot qualify for equalization and their industry is given the squeeze by the federal government even while the industry is in crisis.
Up until Canada can get by without importing oil from the Saudis and the industry worldwide is dead, I think the government should at least try to maintain it. They are currently almost killing it, and having Alberta collapse in fiscal ruin isn't going to help anybody.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
the oil industry is already heavily, heavily subsidized.
and I'm not sure I agree with you about the auto plants, all I have read has them rebounding from the bailouts and thriving.
what I do get is the political anger Trudeau has to deal with from Alberta. merited or not, I understand it.
and I don't disagree with Canadian oil > Saudi oil.
my big thing with pipelines is that I don't trust any of the pipeline companies to not cut corners / costs in construction. nor do I trust the oversight or regulatory authorities. I guess I'm of the mindset that if you're going to do this, do it right. and I don't have a lot of faith in the ability of the current players to make that happen...
Altair
Well-known member
The oil industry is heavily subsidized, but at the same time, they are among the most highly regulated industries in Canada. I mean, consider that the government decided to consider the upstream and downstream increase of emissions for energy east. Imagine putting those restrictions on others industries? Considering increased pollution from vehicles when considering building a Auto Plant? Increased emissions from jets from bombardier? Other industries are not getting that kind of regulatory squeeze.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3345073/justin-trudeau-ontario-auto-sector/
That's how the Auto industry in Canada survives.
You don't here about a plant staying open, god forbid expanding, without a shit ton of government tax breaks, low interest loans and grants behind it.
While expanding the oil and gas industry doesn't make sense for a very long term, right now it's the best bet. Especially with how much the Americans are expanding their energy industry with 2-3 pipelines coming online and their shale gas production ramping up. It really doesn't make sense to leave Canadian oil in the ground when we should be selling it for as much as we can while it still holds some value.
The one thing I did like about energy east was that most of the pipeline was already built, with most of it simply needing to reverse flow from east to west to west to east. It would have helped Alberta and cut off dependency on Saudi oil, it was a win win.
Altair
Well-known member
And to quote myself, just a week after I say it, GM closing all operations in Oshawa.
Now watch as every level of government throws money at them in one way or another to try to keep GM from closing. The same feds who haven't lifted a finger to help Alberta through oil companies leaving because of the tanking price of Western Canada Select due to the lack of oil infrastructure.
Altair
Well-known member
I think it's absolute nonsense to be stopping pipelines as it is, especially a first nations run one.
Thinking of the amount of first nation communities that have no economically viable ways to support themselves, with their citizens living in abject poverty turning to crime, vice and suicide as a result, living off of government handouts, with this as a chance to provide a economic boost and self sustainability to their communities, turning down that one is downright colonialist.
Just about every single legislation the Liberal party has passed or tried to pass regarding the energy industry has been poorly thought out and is contributing to the downturn in the Canadian energy industry, and in this case, this group of first nations.
uncus
Well-known member
As I posted earlier (in the wrong area lol), I would give the native communities this opportunity. But it would be for all communities across canada to share in.
Heck, I would even agree that the government should subsidize the costs of building it.
But in return, I think that the aboriginal communities should be willing to make concessions, a win win solution
In return, I would like all land claims to be cancelled/ended. All reserves to be taken from under the control of the queen and canada itself.
They would have to abide by Canadian laws and regulations.
Each family that has a property on a reserve, now will own that property outright, as will non natives who own a dwelling on these properties.
And finally, all fishing and hunting rights (which 850000 thousand of the 900000 registered aboriginals) never really use anyways imho
Heck, I would even agree that the government should subsidize the costs of building it.
But in return, I think that the aboriginal communities should be willing to make concessions, a win win solution
In return, I would like all land claims to be cancelled/ended. All reserves to be taken from under the control of the queen and canada itself.
They would have to abide by Canadian laws and regulations.
Each family that has a property on a reserve, now will own that property outright, as will non natives who own a dwelling on these properties.
And finally, all fishing and hunting rights (which 850000 thousand of the 900000 registered aboriginals) never really use anyways imho
uncus
Well-known member
Hell, even build them a refinery.
Maybe this will help make canada a truly equal playground.
Let them have control over their lands and destiny, while getting them out from under the idiocy of the crown (her majesty the queen lol) deciding what is best for them on their own reserves.
Maybe this will help make canada a truly equal playground.
Let them have control over their lands and destiny, while getting them out from under the idiocy of the crown (her majesty the queen lol) deciding what is best for them on their own reserves.
Altair
Well-known member
That makes less sense. Specific first nations along the route are taking the risks of having a pipeline run through their land for the benefits, why would you spread out and dilute what they would receive while not mitigating any of the risks? It would be pennies for everyone once every first nation got its hand in the pot.
Yeah, sure. Or not, it's already funded
Isn't that what got first nations in this mess they are in in the first place? Giving up rights to territory for things like guns and booze?
They get more money from the government of Canada and land claims than they will ever get from a single pipeline. Not only that, but how utterly condescending would that be? Give up everything that your ancestors negotiated in your behalf so the government of Canada will grant you the economic freedom to lift some of your communities out of poverty. Talk about blackmail.
At which point they are assimilated within a generation as those outside first nations communities would buy up all the property. And maybe not even assimilated by native Canadians, a lot of those outside Canada would rush to buy property at rock bottom prices.
So every first nation that DOES use their traditional rights and live their traditional lifestyle are suddenly forbidden to do so.
Every thing here is bad, really bad, except allowing the pipeline to be built.
uncus
Well-known member
So taking control from the crown for the ability to have the right to self govern and make their own decisions with the land is wrong?
Have you ever tried to start a business within a rez?
I have ...
I had to open my first shop off the rez.
I rented a house to another person and the red tape I had to go through was rediculous.
Go through the sale of rez land and tell me that the idea of the crown over seeing all transactions isnt a joke
So the land would go dirt cheap? Have you been on some of these reserves and seen the spectacular views? The only reason the land goes so cheap is because we are unable to sell it due to the fact that the only persons that can purchase this land are other natives from the same band. Or else you can sell the dwelling and only lease the land.
So ya, the government should relinquish the laws and agreements they have on this land.
Self determination involves the right to do with our property what we want, even if what we want is a mistake. That is the right of those who should own the right of self government.
You sound like you want to give it all but yet still babysit us.
It is all about what is on it for me ......
Have you ever been to a band meeting? Where decisions are made and voted on ...... we can't even agree to disagree many times and the distrust of band counsels and each other is comical.
So ya, speaking as the son and grandson and great grandson of the native heritage, I can say you dont give up something for nothing and to ask for and give a pipeline after adamentally opposing it for your own special interests, is nothing more than good business. But in business there are costs ..... so what is in it for everyone else?
Have you ever tried to start a business within a rez?
I have ...
I had to open my first shop off the rez.
I rented a house to another person and the red tape I had to go through was rediculous.
Go through the sale of rez land and tell me that the idea of the crown over seeing all transactions isnt a joke
So the land would go dirt cheap? Have you been on some of these reserves and seen the spectacular views? The only reason the land goes so cheap is because we are unable to sell it due to the fact that the only persons that can purchase this land are other natives from the same band. Or else you can sell the dwelling and only lease the land.
So ya, the government should relinquish the laws and agreements they have on this land.
Self determination involves the right to do with our property what we want, even if what we want is a mistake. That is the right of those who should own the right of self government.
You sound like you want to give it all but yet still babysit us.
It is all about what is on it for me ......
Have you ever been to a band meeting? Where decisions are made and voted on ...... we can't even agree to disagree many times and the distrust of band counsels and each other is comical.
So ya, speaking as the son and grandson and great grandson of the native heritage, I can say you dont give up something for nothing and to ask for and give a pipeline after adamentally opposing it for your own special interests, is nothing more than good business. But in business there are costs ..... so what is in it for everyone else?
LeafGm
Well-known member
Doug Ford's reign as Premier in Ontario is proceeding about how you'd expect.
- Is caught on tape during the campaign promising developers to open the Greenbelt up for development. In the face of a public outcry, he then reverses course and promises they'll protect it. And then when in government, he's now set to pass a law that'd gut the environmental protections that are stopping development. It's also come out that the biggest donor to the pro-Ford advocacy group "Ontario Proud" (who advertised a shit-ton leading up to and during the election) is Mattamy Homes. Hmmm....
- Without consulting with the city or any public announcement, the Ontario government has also sold a prime piece of Toronto's waterfront to a Ford family friend for a cut-rate price.
- Almost immediately after taking office, he orchestrated the firing of Hydro One's CEO & board of directors, ostensibly because the CEO was making $6M a year, and Ford was looking to "save the taxpayers money". That move led to Washington State citing Ford's "political interference" in the company's affairs when cancelling a Hydro One deal to take over an energy company named Avista. As a result, Ontario taxpayers will be on the hook for around $185M in "break fees" for the cancellation of the deal.
- With the Ontario Provincial Police in need of a new commissioner, Ford decided he'd step into the process to have another close Ford family friend, Ron Taverner, appointed to the position. The only problem? Taverner was grossly underqualified for the job based on his rank, which was two levels below the minimum requirement. The solution? Ford had the qualifications for the job lowered to the point where Taverner would be eligible for the position. The OPP's interim commissioner has now asked the Province's ombudsman to investigate "questions of political interference" in Taverner's appointment.
- My favourite ridiculous Ford news so far though, came out yesterday:
uncus
Well-known member
Doug Ford could very well be the next prime minister of canada .... if scheer fails to win the next federal election.
That would be scary.
The guy is a moron and so was his brother.
They both were idiots in rexdale and use to always come over to keillor Mackay high school to try to play the toughie lol
Handing out they're decals from their dads factory and bullying the little kids lol
Twits .... the both of them
That would be scary.
The guy is a moron and so was his brother.
They both were idiots in rexdale and use to always come over to keillor Mackay high school to try to play the toughie lol
Handing out they're decals from their dads factory and bullying the little kids lol
Twits .... the both of them
LeafGm
Well-known member
Heh. I am entirely unsurprised that Doug & Rob were both idiot fake-tough guy bullies as kids. It definitely carried over to their adult lives as well.
As for Ford being PM...honestly, these days I wouldn't rule out any possibility.
But hopefully he'll be such an obviously corrupt, incompetent dunce as a Premier that he'll poison the well for any future federal political aspirations he might hold.
And in general, it's really rare for Provincial Premiers to successfully make the jump to Federal leadership, probably because it's tough for the entire country to get behind someone who's so identifiable with one province. Honestly, I can't even remember the last time a former Premier even became a Federal party leader, let alone the PM.