• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

oh shit there's a game - hurricanes @7

leafman101 said:
You don't have to change the rule that the play is dead when the penalized team touches the puck. Its just a weird sequence of events.

A penalty is called, the team scores at even strength before the other team touches the puck so... no penalty is called.

Its really just a benefit to the team that took the penalty.

Its not a major gripe or anything, just a weird rule that punishes teams for scoring goals.
Click to expand...

As you know, his point is that you're already scoring on the one man advantage during the delayed penalty, so it's like you got your PP goal by virtue of the penalty assessed. It is logical. You didn't lose anything.

But it would be just as good to reward the team by giving them the PP too. Feels more unfair because of how we've gotten used to the status quo, and probably is in fact, but it'd make the game more interesting. And it would cause players to be more careful about taking penalties in the first place if a team could potentially double dip with both a goal on the delayed penalty and a goal on the ensuing PP.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
As you know, his point is that you're already scoring on the one man advantage during the delayed penalty, so it's like you got your PP goal by virtue of the penalty assessed. It is logical. You didn't lose anything.

But it would be just as good to reward the team by giving them the PP too. Feels more unfair because of how we've gotten used to the status quo, and probably is in fact, but it'd make the game more interesting. And it would cause players to be more careful about taking penalties in the first place if a team could potentially double dip with both a goal on the delayed penalty and a goal on the ensuing PP.
Click to expand...

I get the 4 and 5 minute penalties for major infractions, having a team score multiple PP goals makes sense. In terms of a delayed penalty, say on a phantom high-sticking call - going down two goals seems like a lot.
 
I get the logic behind it. its just not a good rule for creating offense that an even strength goal cancels out a penalty and power play.

On the topic of pulling goalies for a man advantage, I have wondered recently if there is a statistical benefit to pulling your goalie on the PP. Obviously its risky, but lets say you are down by 2 goals in the 3rd and get a PP, if your odds of scoring significantly increase 6 on 4 vs 5 on 4 then maybe thats a risk worth taking. Like going for it on 4th and short on your own 40 when your down in the 4th quarter.
 
I've always thought a 6 on 4 advantage didn't seem to have all that much of a benefit over 5 on 4, just due to the lack of space in the zone. Certainly not close to a 5 on 3. With 6 skaters, it's difficult for each guy to find open space and it's easier for the 4 defenders to take away lanes and space from multiple opponents at the same time.

I would be interested to see the odds of 6 on 4 vs. 5 on 4 as well to see if I'm out to lunch on that theory.
 
There would be 6v4 numbers out there when a goalie's pulled in the final minutes and the losing team gets a powerplay - though only when the other team has iced the puck.
 
I got zero issue with no penalty if you score on the delay....you got your man advantage and benefit from it. Seems fairly self evident why it is the way it is, and justifiably so.

On the topic of penalties tho:

I'd love to see more 4-4 hockey instead of penalties for retaliating.....just call it on both of them, and give us two minutes of higher octane hockey as a result.

I think there's room for them to make certain types of penalties more powerful by not having the PP end if the team scores.....IE- more dangerous infractions like hitting from behind, a stick to the face, slew foot, boarding etc....while penalties like interference, tripping, puck over the glass, etc all remain as is.
 
Last edited:
Montana said:
I got zero issue with no penalty if you score on the delay....you got your man advantage and benefit from it. Seems fairly self evident why it is the way it is, and justifiably so.

I would love to see more 4-4 hockey instead of penalties for retaliating.....just call it on both of them, and give us two minutes of higher octane hockey as a result.

I think there's room for them to make certain types of penalties more powerful by not having the PP end if the team scores.....IE- more dangerous infractions like hitting from behind, a stick to the face, slew foot, boarding etc....while penalties like interference, tripping, puck over the glass, etc all remain as is.
Click to expand...


It is weird though. The reason you pull the goalie is only indirectly related to the penatly. The reason you can pull the goalie is because as soon as the other team touches the puck the play is blown dead. There are a few other times in a game that in theory you could pull the goalie though with more risk. If a high stick or hand pass happens you could pull the goalie (though it would not really be an advantage) without fearing the other team could score on you. It is a shorter segment of time and ends when either team touches the puck though.
 
worm said:
It is weird though. The reason you pull the goalie is only indirectly related to the penatly. The reason you can pull the goalie is because as soon as the other team touches the puck the play is blown dead. There are a few other times in a game that in theory you could pull the goalie though with more risk. If a high stick or hand pass happens you could pull the goalie (though it would not really be an advantage) without fearing the other team could score on you. It is a shorter segment of time and ends when either team touches the puck though.
Click to expand...


I agree there are other instances in hockey where the whistle blows the play dead, if one team touches the puck.
 
ExceptionallyDumb said:
I'm opening mydoors to my beautiful secluded home by a lake and you're declining? Come on pal! Just the two of us! It'll be fun! BYOB!!!!!!!!

Happy Birthday!!!!!! Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

latest


Yes MindzEye, why don’t you go?
 
leafman101 said:
I get the logic behind it. its just not a good rule for creating offense that an even strength goal cancels out a penalty and power play.

On the topic of pulling goalies for a man advantage, I have wondered recently if there is a statistical benefit to pulling your goalie on the PP. Obviously its risky, but lets say you are down by 2 goals in the 3rd and get a PP, if your odds of scoring significantly increase 6 on 4 vs 5 on 4 then maybe thats a risk worth taking. Like going for it on 4th and short on your own 40 when your down in the 4th quarter.
Click to expand...

Even if the odds are higher with the goalie pulled on a late PP, the chance of some unlucky bounce ending up on the stick of a dman, or a wild clear attempt making its way into your net, makes it so easy for you to lose the game on a fluke that it just can't be risked under normal circumstances.

Heck, I'm not even a fan of the recent trend of pulling goalies earlier and earlier, sometimes with 3 minutes left as I've seen this season. Don't let an empty netter castrate your chances when there's still a bunch of time left to score a couple of goals without taking the risk.
 
You'd be wrong tho......all these teams aren't pulling their goalie just for the hell of it. The data is just so conclusive they all know they'd be dumb not to.

The funny thing is....they're all being too conservative. The smarter play is often to pull far before they do.

Tend to believe 101 is right, that a 6-4 would be the wise play when you're down a few too..
 
For all the times I've seen it happen so far, I don't think I've seen it work yet. Almost always results in EN goals with plenty of time to go, and often preceding a goal you pop in that no longer matters. Or the move is ineffective and neither team scores further. At least, the games I've seen.

You see so often a team scoring a couple of goals in a short span that it's painful to watch a team down two goals with 3:30 left or something, and out goes the goalie, only to see it become a three goal deficit with 3 minutes left. Maybe it's working in games I'm not catching up on live or in highlights, I dunno.
 
That's kinda the beauty of large scale data, it overpowers anecdotal evidence & gut feelings that otherwise leads us to poor conclusions.
 
Last edited:
Where's the data? Or are you drawing a conclusion that there is such data based on anecdotal evidence of seeing it happen in games you watch?
 
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top