The Official Hurricanes Playoff Position Tracker

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

My problem with the situation is, that's 20 goals gone if he is moved, heads to free agency? Where are the replacement 20 goals coming from. Say Martinook, and ill laugh in your face. This team keeps bleeding offensive players and getting back diddly shit in return.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

The Canes need to pull a Wesley move. Trade Ferland at the deadline and get a 2nd rounder from someone. Then sign him back in the offseason longterm. Most teams that are interested in adding Ferland as a depth scoring move at the deadline will not have available cap space to sign him long term. Pittsburgh is a great example of this. Trading him at the deadline does not have to mean the end of Ferland in Carolina. He makes sense long term in Carolina and even more sense if he can lead to an additional high draft pick in the process. Win-win for all.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

CarolinaPen said:

The Canes need to pull a Wesley move. Trade Ferland at the deadline and get a 2nd rounder from someone. Then sign him back in the offseason longterm. Most teams that are interested in adding Ferland as a depth scoring move at the deadline will not have available cap space to sign him long term. Pittsburgh is a great example of this. Trading him at the deadline does not have to mean the end of Ferland in Carolina. He makes sense long term in Carolina and even more sense if he can lead to an additional high draft pick in the process. Win-win for all.

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Look, if you can pull that off then more power to you, but in these circumstances I don't want any part of any risky shenanigans with an important player. I want them to send a signal that they value the importance of that kind of player and sign the guy ... like a normal franchise. See Kahuna's post for context. At some point, stop acting like you're allergic to guys who score freaking goals.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

jeffbear said:

Look, if you can pull that off then more power to you, but in these circumstances I don't want any part of any risky shenanigans with an important player. I want them to send a signal that they value the importance of that kind of player and sign the guy ... like a normal franchise. See Kahuna's post for context. At some point, stop acting like you're allergic to guys who score freaking goals.

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+1

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

jeffbear said:

Look, if you can pull that off then more power to you, but in these circumstances I don't want any part of any risky shenanigans with an important player. I want them to send a signal that they value the importance of that kind of player and sign the guy ... like a normal franchise. See Kahuna's post for context. At some point, stop acting like you're allergic to guys who score freaking goals.

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+2

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

+3

Jordan and Rask are making 10million, and might net us 10 -15 goals this season, combined, if they turn things around. And we are worried about overpaying a guy at around 5m, who can pot 20 without much worry.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

Priorities man... 10 million for the "best" non scoring centers... or 5 or 6 for a Scoring forward with some size and physicality.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

if you trade or let go a player every time they want more money that's a recipe for losing.

I can see cutting costs but you cannot cut them so much that the end product , wins in this case, goes way down. Unless you are very smart of very lucky you are not going to win much with such a low payroll.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

Paulie Walnuts said:

if you trade or let go a player every time they want more money that's a recipe for losing.

I can see cutting costs but you cannot cut them so much that the end product , wins in this case, goes way down. Unless you are very smart of very lucky you are not going to win much with such a low payroll.

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Hey. We finally agree on something. Mark the day my friend.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

and having a low payroll does not really do much good if nobody is buying tickets .

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

In the chicken-or-egg debate you have to spend to win before the casual fan will pay to watch.

They're not going to pay to watch losses so you can then spend their money increasing payroll with none of your capital invested.

Dundon needs to capitalize the business in order to grow it. He knows that and even said so during the early days of ownership.

Got to spend to win. Got to win to sell tickets.

One does not buy and own a major sports franchise in order to balance the cost/revenue streams like some used car lot.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

BTW ... Friedman has confirmed the huge gap between Ferland and the Canes and framed him being moved as “when” not “if”

So. The Canes are supposedly scouting the market for scorers at the same time they balk hard at paying their second leading scorer, to whom they are paying peanuts. Yeah. Lovely. That thing about gotta pay to play. Here’s your chance.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

I have also seen multiple gap reports between the two sides all describing them as not even close. Info is leaking out like a sieve from somewhere. Maybe both sides.

Strongly suspect it is as much (or maybe even more so) about term as it is dollars. Those two concussions probably have him thinking about the length of his career. Perhaps more so than the annual amount.

Maybe the compromise is to front-load the cash and have the yearly amount trail off in the later seasons so less painful for cash flow and/or more tradable.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

For UFAs you pretty much have to overpay because there are so many other teams bidding for the same guy. And the Canes are not exactly the type of team guys are knocking down doors to play for so that means you have to pay even more. an extreme example, they could have offered Tavares a huge deal and he was not signing.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

Paulie Walnuts said:

For UFAs you pretty much have to overpay because there are so many other teams bidding for the same guy. And the Canes are not exactly the type of team guys are knocking down doors to play for so that means you have to pay even more. an extreme example, they could have offered Tavares a huge deal and he was not signing.

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This guy is ON THE TEAM. You pay him. And Aho. And Turbo. Those are quality players. You pay them quality money.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

I am waiting to see how the negotiations go with some of these key pieces.If we start hardballing those key RFAs rather than working with them, I will wash my hands. I can become an NCSU basketball fan and attend those games (JB, can you tell me how to become a season ticket holder??)

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

SlapShots said:

I am waiting to see how the negotiations go with some of these key pieces.If we start hardballing those key RFAs rather than working with them, I will wash my hands. I can become an NCSU basketball fan and attend those games (JB, can you tell me how to become a season ticket holder??)

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Contact the Wolfpack Club through their website or on the phone. Easy. Peasy. We're a weird, paranoid bunch ... but fun.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

I think the Ferland thing needs to be kept in perspective. It says more about the Canes lack of overall scoring talent that Ferland is the 2nd leading goal scorer on the team than what Ferland's value really is as the 2nd leading scorer on the team. In the bigger picture Ferland is currently 100th in the NHL in goals.

On a good team, Ferland is a perfect 3rd line scorer who can slot into a top 6 role when injuries/circumstances require it. At the high end that should be ~$4M per year. If he wants more than that the Canes should trade him and roll the dice in the off-season. Otherwise they end up with another overpriced 3rd line player to pair with J. Staal.

I get the Canes need goal scorers but it is a reach to pay Ferland $5+ a year and expect him to be in the top 6.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

So, who do you replace him with? And is your replacement a bargain? Not if you grabbed him in free agency he isn't. So, who do you replace his 20 goals with?

Do you trade a d-man on a very good contract for someone else's version of Ferland? Again, who do you replace him with? Everyone thinks he's "overvalued " but I've yet to hear a solid, viable replacement option.

Lindholm wanted too much money. (Not really), so he was replaced with Ferland. Now Ferland wants too much money or term. (Really?). Insert next replacement here, cheaper, worse player. This pattern of diminishing returns is how you kill a franchise. Something Waddell is all too familiar with. It has to stop somewhere. This is Dundon's last and only chance to prove that hes serious about building a winner. If they screw up this trade deadline and off-season, they'll be playing in front of the smallest crowds ever in Canes history next season People won't continue to buy into the B.S.

Re: The Official Hurricanes Futility Thread

TheBigKahuna said:

So, who do you replace him with? And is your replacement a bargain? Not if you grabbed him in free agency he isn't. So, who do you replace his 20 goals with?

Do you trade a d-man on a very good contract for someone else's version of Ferland? Again, who do you replace him with? Everyone thinks he's "overvalued " but I've yet to hear a solid, viable replacement option.

Lindholm wanted too much money. (Not really), so he was replaced with Ferland. Now Ferland wants too much money or term. (Really?). Insert next replacement here, cheaper, worse player. This pattern of diminishing returns is how you kill a franchise. Something Waddell is all too familiar with. It has to stop somewhere. This is Dundon's last and only chance to prove that hes serious about building a winner. If they screw up this trade deadline and off-season, they'll be playing in front of the smallest crowds ever in Canes history next season People won't continue to buy into the B.S.

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All great questions. I personally like Ferland and hope the Canes resign him, but he would not be my priority. The Canes need to address the following, in this order:

1) Get a real GM - They need someone that can build a damn team and stop making poor decisions. The Skinner trade was horrid and the Canes can't afford any more of those mistakes. Watching Tampa tonight made the Canes situation all the more frustrating. Perfect example of what a real GM/organization can do building a roster. Stevie Y didn't overpay players and had no problem playing hardball when required to build that team. (I know he "retired" at start of year, but this is his team and roster)
2) Resign Aho
3) Resign Turbo
4) Then think about Ferland and what he wants. If you can sign him for ~$4M year, then do it. If rumors are true and he wants $5M+ a year, that is insane. Good asset management is to trade him and get a decent pick if his demands are too high. Once again, trading him does not mean the Canes still can't sign him in the off-season. Are teams really lining up to overpay him? Letting him hit the open market could benefit the Canes and net them some additional assets.

The organization needs to address the GM role and sink some money into capable personnel management. Until that happens I am not going to worry about 3rd line guys when they can't field a legit top 2 lines.