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Thread: This Season Was a Success

  1. #21
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    In the moment people were happy because they got to watch some good games. Although it mounted to the worst case outcome, that is still what a lot of people want, including somewhat educated fans on the board.

    In the moment gratification.

  2. #22
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    Last year got us KK. Success.

    This season got us what exactly? No playoffs and a middling pick. That's success to you?
    How do you know it'll be a middling pick?

    We drafted Galchenyuk 3rd overall and he was a bust.

    I love how people around here think that you can't draft a blue chip prospects outside the top 5.

    Pasternak, Barzal, Chabot, McAvoy, Boeser, Larkin were all drafted higher than 15th.

    It's possible to draft well and still have your organization progress in a positive direction.

    Would the process be easier if we always had top three picks? Of course but even that guarantees nothing, just look at the Oilers, panthers and Sabres who once again had horrible years and will all once again be looking for new coaches probably and need to regroup
    Go Habs Go!

  3. #23
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    I can probably go on a limb and tell you that any true Hab fan wants that.

    Plan should be to start drafting better, end of story.

    No matter where you finish you have to get it right more often than not.

    This organization has not done that, that's why we are where we are.
    I agree, the habs need to start drafting better.

    The failure to do that is why the team is in the position it's in.

    But I have seen no signs that amateur drafting and development are going to suddenly turn around and be among the best in the league anytime soon.

    So assuming that the team is still going to struggle in the drafting and development department, what other options are there? Right, finish bottom 5 and grab guys like KK. The organization isn't willing to do that either.

    So we are spinning our wheels in the mud. We have two choices and we pick neither. So ya, I'm very frustrated. This league punishes teams in the middle, and we are literally as middle as we can get, and the only thing that can save a team in the middle is some really smart choices at the draft which this team hasn't really shown it can do.

    So forgive me if I don't have a shred of optimism for this team moving forward. This is the definition of a bubble team and will likely be for seasons to come until the wheels fall off.

  4. #24
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainBolduke View Post
    In the moment people were happy because they got to watch some good games. Although it mounted to the worst case outcome, that is still what a lot of people want, including somewhat educated fans on the board.

    In the moment gratification.
    Short term gain for long term disappointment.

  5. #25
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    How do you know it'll be a middling pick?

    We drafted Galchenyuk 3rd overall and he was a bust.

    I love how people around here think that you can't draft a blue chip prospects outside the top 5.

    Pasternak, Barzal, Chabot, McAvoy, Boeser, Larkin were all drafted higher than 15th.

    It's possible to draft well and still have your organization progress in a positive direction.

    Would the process be easier if we always had top three picks? Of course but even that guarantees nothing, just look at the Oilers, panthers and Sabres who once again had horrible years and will all once again be looking for new coaches probably and need to regroup
    Even as a bust, he had enough value to flip for another first rounder, Domi. So yes, top 5 picks can bust but they also retain a lot of their value.

    And yes, people can say draft better till we are blue in the face, but the organization really hasn't shown that it's going to do that, so we cannot count on it. Might as well say finish first in the east. Wishful thinking which doesn't lead to much.

  6. #26
    Legend Sal_Butera's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    But I have seen no signs that amateur drafting and development are going to suddenly turn around and be among the best in the league anytime soon.
    So you’re saying you already know for a fact Suzuki, Poehling, Juulsen, Ylonen, Romanov, Evans, Brooks, Primeau will not develop into productive NHLers and KK & Mete is a what you see right now is what you get?


    “We haven’t reached the ultimate, of where you walk into the building and you can sort of smell victory. But we’re a step closer to that this year than we were last year.”


    “So now the pressure’s on to replicate.”
    - Geoff Molson

  7. #27
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    Short term gain for long term disappointment.
    Tanking can also lead to short term disappointment with long term disappointment.

    There are more examples of that today than anything.

    You can draft top three consistently for a stretch but as an organization if you don't evolve and improve all you do is rinse wash and repeat.

    The best approach is to just handle your business...have organizational standards that revolve around high standard drafting, high standard player development and high standard coaching.

    Do all those things right and you will find that franchise player drafting #10 or #12 overall, heck maybe even #20.
    Go Habs Go!

  8. #28
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    Even as a bust, he had enough value to flip for another first rounder, Domi. So yes, top 5 picks can bust but they also retain a lot of their value.

    And yes, people can say draft better till we are blue in the face, but the organization really hasn't shown that it's going to do that, so we cannot count on it. Might as well say finish first in the east. Wishful thinking which doesn't lead to much.
    You just pin pointed the real problem...thank you sir!
    Go Habs Go!

  9. #29
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal_Butera View Post
    So you’re saying you already know for a fact Suzuki, Poehling, Juulsen, Ylonen, Romanov, Evans, Brooks, Primeau will not develop into productive NHLers and KK & Mete is a what you see right now is what you get?
    I'm saying that we were all hopeful for guys like Sherbak, Hudon, Lindgren, Vejdemo, Reway, Bitten, and none of them turned out.

  10. #30
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    You just pin pointed the real problem...thank you sir!
    So why is this season a success when we still haven't fixed Amateur drafting and development?

  11. #31
    Legend GGpX's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    If, by some way, Alex Turcotte slides all the way to our draft pick, this season will be a massive success. If he's not there (and I fully expect him to be done by pick 8 or 9), then it's whatever. Settle for Cam York, Connor McMichael or Alex Newhook. Nobody else really has my attention around that pick.

    Everything else, I couldn't give less of a shit about, this isn't a playoff team. It's a bad team with an elite goaltender, who, as usual, is making this team look a lot better than it really is.

    A lot of players had career years and outside of Weber, there weren't many injuries throughout the year. Part of me doesn't expect this to replicate next year.

    Getting Poehling, Suzuki & Brook into the lineup in the next year or two will be nice, but they're not going to be the difference between being a mediocre team and being elite. They're nice complimentary pieces.

    This team needs to get young, high-end talent in a hurry or this is where it's going to end up next year, and the year after that (before firing Julien to replace him by Vigneault), and the year after that one...
    I probably work too much for my own good.

  12. #32
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    So why is this season a success when we still haven't fixed Amateur drafting and development?
    Who says it was a success?

    I think there was some positive progress and encouraging signs going forward.

    Still tons of work to do however
    Go Habs Go!

  13. #33
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by GGpX View Post
    If, by some way, Alex Turcotte slides all the way to our draft pick, this season will be a massive success. If he's not there (and I fully expect him to be done by pick 8 or 9), then it's whatever. Settle for Cam York, Connor McMichael or Alex Newhook. Nobody else really has my attention around that pick.

    Everything else, I couldn't give less of a shit about, this isn't a playoff team. It's a bad team with an elite goaltender, who, as usual, is making this team look a lot better than it really is.

    A lot of players had career years and outside of Weber, there weren't many injuries throughout the year. Part of me doesn't expect this to replicate next year.

    Getting Poehling, Suzuki & Brook into the lineup in the next year or two will be nice, but they're not going to be the difference between being a mediocre team and being elite. They're nice complimentary pieces.

    This team needs to get young, high-end talent in a hurry or this is where it's going to end up next year, and the year after that (before firing Julien to replace him by Vigneault), and the year after that one...
    Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner.

  14. #34
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    Who says it was a success?

    I think there was some positive progress and encouraging signs going forward.

    Still tons of work to do however
    The original poster for one.

  15. #35
    LeAdminie legoalie's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    I see the negative nancy's are back in full bloom.. must be spring.. there are more positives about this team than negatives which is a far cry from one year ago, so the season was a success in regards to this team moving forward.. the development of the kids this year playing in these games and for the playoffs is very valuable.. pain today for success tomorrow.. posters that keep saying we needed to tank should start cheering for another team, maybe cheer for the Oilers or Sabres.. they fit your mold on how to build this team... tanking it is not going to happen on purpose with the Montreal Canadiens.. we finished with 94 points maybe more, we have more than Vegas which is suppose to be a contender ..

  16. #36
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    The original poster for one.
    And MB will likely say the same thing, or spin it in a way that he's claiming some success.

    Every reasonable Hab fan knows that there is still tons of work to do to become a good team.
    Go Habs Go!

  17. #37
    Legend GGpX's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    I see the negative nancy's are back in full bloom.. must be spring.. there are more positives about this team than negatives which is a far cry from one year ago, so the season was a success in regards to this team moving forward.. the development of the kids this year playing in these games and for the playoffs is very valuable.. pain today for success tomorrow.. posters that keep saying we needed to tank should start cheering for another team, maybe cheer for the Oilers or Sabres.. they fit your mold on how to build this team... tanking it is not going to happen on purpose with the Montreal Canadiens.. we finished with 94 points maybe more, we have more than Vegas which is suppose to be a contender ..
    Or the Blackhawks or Penguins, you know, the teams that tanked and don't suffer from nepotism? The teams that actually hired good, competent people to do the job instead of their friends?

    But there's no point in cheering for Deadmonton or Buffalo, we're closer to them than we are Pittsburgh/Chicago. Bergevin's got a ton of his buddies around him.

    This organization openly promoted Trevor Timmins despite his lack of success at the drafting table. That's the Edmonton Oilers model of failing upwards and I totally understand why we would follow it.
    I probably work too much for my own good.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    I see the negative nancy's are back in full bloom.. must be spring.. there are more positives about this team than negatives which is a far cry from one year ago, so the season was a success in regards to this team moving forward.. the development of the kids this year playing in these games and for the playoffs is very valuable.. pain today for success tomorrow.. posters that keep saying we needed to tank should start cheering for another team, maybe cheer for the Oilers or Sabres.. they fit your mold on how to build this team... tanking it is not going to happen on purpose with the Montreal Canadiens.. we finished with 94 points maybe more, we have more than Vegas which is suppose to be a contender ..
    This is what I'm saying. Getting the shot at high end talent is important, but so is developing what we already have. Some of these guys took major steps this year and got to play in some important games.

    Getting high picks is nice, but you need to have a surrounding cast. I had questions about the surrounding cast last year, and way fewer questions now.

    There's no reason why some of these young guys can't continue to improve. If Kotkaniemi becomes a 50 point players and Domi becomes an 80 player (scenarios which were both pipe dreams last year at this time) where will this team be?

  19. #39
    Canadiens Moderator Rolex's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    What’s surprising is that we got 94-96 points playing in the toughest division in the NHL....

    We had to get those points playing against powerhouses like Tampa-Bruins-Leafs.....and playing in a stronger Eastern Conference with teams like Caps-Pens.

    That’s crazy when you think about it....we did really well this year, considering Drouin was a mess, Price started the season as a mess, Weber was injured, we still haven’t found a partner for Weber, we still don’t have a legit #1 center
    "Love one another as I have loved you"... Jesus-Christ our Holy Lord and Savior Forever Amen and Alleluia !!!

  20. #40
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
    What’s surprising is that we got 94-96 points playing in the toughest division in the NHL....

    We had to get those points playing against powerhouses like Tampa-Bruins-Leafs.....and playing in a stronger Eastern Conference with teams like Caps-Pens.

    That’s crazy when you think about it....we did really well this year, considering Drouin was a mess, Price started the season as a mess, Weber was injured, we still haven’t found a partner for Weber, we still don’t have a legit #1 center
    A bunch of people hitting career numbers will do that.

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