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Thread: This Season Was a Success

  1. #41
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by habsfan View Post
    This is what I'm saying. Getting the shot at high end talent is important, but so is developing what we already have. Some of these guys took major steps this year and got to play in some important games.

    Getting high picks is nice, but you need to have a surrounding cast. I had questions about the surrounding cast last year, and way fewer questions now.

    There's no reason why some of these young guys can't continue to improve. If Kotkaniemi becomes a 50 point players and Domi becomes an 80 player (scenarios which were both pipe dreams last year at this time) where will this team be?


    You need to build a cast first and KK is the type to start with from the draft . Then when you have legit talent and showing signs of being competitive you work with the support staff .

    We keep spinning our wheels never developing a proper base .

  2. #42
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    Tanking can also lead to short term disappointment with long term disappointment.

    There are more examples of that today than anything.

    You can draft top three consistently for a stretch but as an organization if you don't evolve and improve all you do is rinse wash and repeat.

    The best approach is to just handle your business...have organizational standards that revolve around high standard drafting, high standard player development and high standard coaching.

    Do all those things right and you will find that franchise player drafting #10 or #12 overall, heck maybe even #20.
    It honestly seems like you are advocating for the status quo.

    There one thing this team hasn't done in the last 26 years. A full blown tank re-build.

  3. #43
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    A bunch of people hitting career numbers will do that.
    It's not like they're hitting career numbers at the age of 30 + except for Petry.

    Domi just turned 24 a month ago, Tatar is still 28, Gallagher 26, Drouin is 24, Danault turned 26 last week.

    Emphasizing career years as a reason for an improved season is valid but of course in your case you seem to be convinced these seasons can't be replicated despite the fact the guys that had career years are in their primes and a few years away from their 30s.
    Go Habs Go!

  4. #44
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by GGpX View Post
    If, by some way, Alex Turcotte slides all the way to our draft pick, this season will be a massive success. If he's not there (and I fully expect him to be done by pick 8 or 9), then it's whatever. Settle for Cam York, Connor McMichael or Alex Newhook. Nobody else really has my attention around that pick.

    Everything else, I couldn't give less of a shit about, this isn't a playoff team. It's a bad team with an elite goaltender, who, as usual, is making this team look a lot better than it really is.

    A lot of players had career years and outside of Weber, there weren't many injuries throughout the year. Part of me doesn't expect this to replicate next year.

    Getting Poehling, Suzuki & Brook into the lineup in the next year or two will be nice, but they're not going to be the difference between being a mediocre team and being elite. They're nice complimentary pieces.

    This team needs to get young, high-end talent in a hurry or this is where it's going to end up next year, and the year after that (before firing Julien to replace him by Vigneault), and the year after that one...
    This doesn't happen in a hurry ..after 7 years of this regime .... a few high end pieces should of been developed by now .

    Then you hope that the secondary pieces you mentioned can fill roles one day .

    We never get to the important stage 1 .....to add stage 2 of development

  5. #45
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainBolduke View Post
    It honestly seems like you are advocating for the status quo.

    There one thing this team hasn't done in the last 26 years. A full blown tank re-build.
    That's a ridiculous statement considering I want to win a cup and obviously seem more disappointed than you that we missed the playoffs.

    The difference is that you and others seem convinced that tanking will eventually guarantee a powerhouse team in the future when there are no guarantees in this approach.

    Of course it could very well work if we get lucky and draft top two - three in those tank years and don't drop in the lottery, we would also need those drafts to provide elite prospects and not ok prospects or busts, we would need at least one generational talent...that's alot of variables that are out of anyone's control.

    All I'm saying is that I like to see progress being made rather than see regime changes and coaching changes every three years as we see regularly in markets like Edm, Buffalo, Florida,

    Building something solid and making sure that you draft well, develop well and coach well is a more level headed approach as these are aspects you can control if you put the right people in place.

    The PROBLEM HERE IS DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE?

    Tinordi, Beaulieu, Mccarron, Sherbak, Juulsen are not good 1st round picks and very mediocre 2nd and 3rd round picks over the years like JDR, Fucale, Colberg, Lernout, Bitten etc...

    Doesn't suggest that drafting has been even close to good enough.

    Tanking sounds amazing if you can land Mcdavid, Mathews or Crosby

    But you may also land Ekblad, RNH, Hischier who are good players but are not lifting your organization to greater heights.

    You can also land the flat out busts like yakupov.

    Tanking is a dangerous game to play because once you dig yourself deep in that hole you better make sure that you can dig yourself out.
    Go Habs Go!

  6. #46
    Canadiens Moderator DonKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    This doesn't happen in a hurry ..after 7 years of this regime .... a few high end pieces should of been drafted and developed by now .

    Then you hope that the secondary pieces you mentioned can fill roles one day .

    We never get to the important stage 1 .....to add stage 2 of development
    That's how I see it too
    Go Habs Go!

  7. #47
    LeAdminie legoalie's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by GGpX View Post
    Or the Blackhawks or Penguins, you know, the teams that tanked and don't suffer from nepotism? The teams that actually hired good, competent people to do the job instead of their friends?

    But there's no point in cheering for Deadmonton or Buffalo, we're closer to them than we are Pittsburgh/Chicago. Bergevin's got a ton of his buddies around him.

    This organization openly promoted Trevor Timmins despite his lack of success at the drafting table. That's the Edmonton Oilers model of failing upwards and I totally understand why we would follow it.
    Like I said, this is the Montreal Canadiens, the longest stretch we have gone without the playoffs is 3 years, or 4 out five from 98-02, the dark years.. the Penguins went longer, the Hawks missed the playoffs for 9 years.. that is not going to happen with the Habs.. so like i said, if you are hoping to rebuild by tanking long term, cheer for another team, it ain't happening... i also disagree with us being closer to the Oil or Sabres, we are closer to the Hawks, the Hawks will miss the playoffs for the 2nd year and they did not tank.. they are also hand cuffed with salaries... so we are sitting better.

  8. #48
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    Like I said, this is the Montreal Canadiens, the longest stretch we have gone without the playoffs is 3 years, or 4 out five from 98-02, the dark years.. the Penguins went longer, the Hawks missed the playoffs for 9 years.. that is not going to happen with the Habs.. so like i said, if you are hoping to rebuild by tanking long term, cheer for another team, it ain't happening... i also disagree with us being closer to the Oil or Sabres, we are closer to the Hawks, the Hawks will miss the playoffs for the 2nd year and they did not tank.. they are also hand cuffed with salaries... so we are sitting better.
    ... We are closer to the hawks... The team that has won 3 cups with their core... Jesus Christ.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair View Post
    ... We are closer to the hawks... The team that has won 3 cups with their core... Jesus Christ.
    Sure cherry pick what i said..

  10. #50
    Legend GGpX's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    Like I said, this is the Montreal Canadiens, the longest stretch we have gone without the playoffs is 3 years, or 4 out five from 98-02, the dark years.. the Penguins went longer, the Hawks missed the playoffs for 9 years.. that is not going to happen with the Habs.. so like i said, if you are hoping to rebuild by tanking long term, cheer for another team, it ain't happening... i also disagree with us being closer to the Oil or Sabres, we are closer to the Hawks, the Hawks will miss the playoffs for the 2nd year and they did not tank.. they are also hand cuffed with salaries... so we are sitting better.
    Yeah, we're really not. Chicago missed the playoffs two years in a row because Crawford's injuries. They got AHL goaltending the rest of the time. If they had even average NHL goaltending, they would have made it both times. But I suppose they did sign probably the most overrated and underqualified goaltender I can think of in Cam Ward. I can't think of one player that lives off a reputation like he has.

    Kane is a HHOF talent that just had his best year. Toews just had a career year too. Keith still looks like he can play. Seabrook is an anchor, but we have one in Alzner. Who's our DeBrincat, our Jokiharju, our D. Strome (although this season is a mirage to me)? We have a bunch of interesting prospects that haven't proven they can play in the NHL yet.

    Edmonton is going to be in the dumps for years. They don't have the first clue about what they're doing, and you know what, we came close to giving a contract to Lucic, the second or third worst contract in the whole league, but he snubbed us to take a discount in Edmonton.
    I probably work too much for my own good.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by GGpX View Post
    Yeah, we're really not. Chicago missed the playoffs two years in a row because Crawford's injuries. They got AHL goaltending the rest of the time. If they had even average NHL goaltending, they would have made it both times. But I suppose they did sign probably the most overrated and underqualified goaltender I can think of in Cam Ward. I can't think of one player that lives off a reputation like he has.

    Kane is a HHOF talent that just had his best year. Toews just had a career year too. Keith still looks like he can play. Seabrook is an anchor, but we have one in Alzner. Who's our DeBrincat, our Jokiharju, our D. Strome (although this season is a mirage to me)? We have a bunch of interesting prospects that haven't proven they can play in the NHL yet.

    Edmonton is going to be in the dumps for years. They don't have the first clue about what they're doing, and you know what, we came close to giving a contract to Lucic, the second or third worst contract in the whole league, but he snubbed us to take a discount in Edmonton.
    so the Hawks are built around their goalie?

  12. #52
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    It's not like they're hitting career numbers at the age of 30 + except for Petry.

    Domi just turned 24 a month ago, Tatar is still 28, Gallagher 26, Drouin is 24, Danault turned 26 last week.

    Emphasizing career years as a reason for an improved season is valid but of course in your case you seem to be convinced these seasons can't be replicated despite the fact the guys that had career years are in their primes and a few years away from their 30s.
    Conversely it is unreasonable to expect each player to duplicate a career year. Some may sure but all of them? Unlikely.

    Fix the PP, get a LHD to play with Weber, get close to the same production out of the rest and they make the playoffs. That joke of a PP being the most urgent.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  13. #53
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by GGpX View Post
    Yeah, we're really not. Chicago missed the playoffs two years in a row because Crawford's injuries. They got AHL goaltending the rest of the time. If they had even average NHL goaltending, they would have made it both times. But I suppose they did sign probably the most overrated and underqualified goaltender I can think of in Cam Ward. I can't think of one player that lives off a reputation like he has.

    Kane is a HHOF talent that just had his best year. Toews just had a career year too. Keith still looks like he can play. Seabrook is an anchor, but we have one in Alzner. Who's our DeBrincat, our Jokiharju, our D. Strome (although this season is a mirage to me)? We have a bunch of interesting prospects that haven't proven they can play in the NHL yet.

    Edmonton is going to be in the dumps for years. They don't have the first clue about what they're doing, and you know what, we came close to giving a contract to Lucic, the second or third worst contract in the whole league, but he snubbed us to take a discount in Edmonton.
    I would take CMD and Leon right now over our entire roster .

  14. #54
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by legoalie View Post
    so the Hawks are built around their goalie?
    No they had premier talent for years and developing some more young talent like DaBrincat now .

    The inevitable decline was due to the cap and age but 3 cups is all that matters .

    You could justify hitting the bottom when you had 7 years of contending .

  15. #55
    Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire Habsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Plenty of points were thrown away this season, the PP was the worst Iíve ever seen and yet they almost pulled it off due to stellar ES numbers.

    A win in Carolina and Columbus and this isnít even a discussion. Those two teams just wanted it more and that is a valuable learning lesson for the kids.
    #FireJulien#FireMarcBergevin Burn Geoff Molson in effigy! #worstmanagementstaffever

  16. #56
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by DonKay View Post
    That's how I see it too
    Lets see what Nero does this summer

    I think this push this year may make this regime giddy about adding more vet pieces .

    I hope numb nuts doesn't do anything stupid to stall the slowly moving train

  17. #57
    The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins. CH1's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Lots of positives. My only negative is Drouin ghosting the team after the All Star break. And of course the PP.

    Gallagher proved that last year's 30 goal season was not a one off.
    Danault got some Selke Buzz.
    Tatar is a solid player. That line was one of the toughest to play against anywhere.

    Domi came out as a 70 pt pivot.
    KK became more than interesting prospect playing overseas.

    Petry was cool and productive.
    The D overall held up pretty well. Luke Richardson also made chicken salad out of chicken shit.
    Some GMs get you to the playoffs and some GMs get you through the playoffs.

  18. #58
    Legend Altair's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by GEEMAN View Post
    Lets see what Nero does this summer

    I think this push this year may make this regime giddy about adding more vet pieces .

    I hope numb nuts doesn't do anything stupid to stall the slowly moving train
    I fully expect another alzner.

  19. #59
    Legend GrandWazoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    I wouldn't call the season a success but more good things happened than bad ones.

    Domi was an amazing addition
    Tatar was great
    Kotkaniemi made the team and didn't look out of place despite his age
    Mete's progress was phenomenal
    Petry just keeps getting better
    Danault developed into a legit top 6 2 way center
    Shaw had his best season with us
    Kulak and Weal were great finds that cost us nothing
    Another great healthy season by Gallagher
    Poehling, Suzuki, Romanov, Brook, Primeau had great seasons

    The bad parts were :
    An abysmal PP and no creativity to solve it until the very end.
    Drouin was terrible down the stretch. This is major cause of concern.
    Niemi was garage league level. Thankfully this one is the easiest to fix.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: This Season Was a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
    Plenty of points were thrown away this season, the PP was the worst I’ve ever seen and yet they almost pulled it off due to stellar ES numbers.

    A win in Carolina and Columbus and this isn’t even a discussion. Those two teams just wanted it more and that is a valuable learning lesson for the kids.
    Every team can say , " coulda ....shoulda .... what if "

    Its a long season and typically talent prevails in the end .

    I don't believe in momentum for next year or learning from this year .

    All these players have been through junior / NCAA / Europe playoff wars albeit at a different level.

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