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OT: American Politics

zeke said:
you seem to think the dems are losing the messaging war here.
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If the Dems were losing the messaging war Trump wouldn't be hinting at calling it a crisis and national emergency now would he?

They aren't losing the messaging war, they just aren't winning it enough and Pelosi continually saying zero won't put them over the top. The only ones that think she's really winning are the Dem base. Granted Trump has more of his base and especially independents not supporting him as much.
 
Habsy said:
With the electoral college in place AOC will not get even close to the nomination. Maybe in 40 years but I'll likely be dead by then. She's piling up the enemies, believe that.
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i think it is now or never

rides this wave of popularity that cannot be ignored or fades out and goes away
 
Sanders sure did spark this "socialist" democratic movement but aside from the media and the coasts it won't go anywhere. Electoral college will kill it. Plus she's too young to run for President, you have to be at least 35.
 
she is that young eh?


but obama was not even born in america...so there are ways around the rules.... :p
 
AOC is 29, she's younger than my oldest daughter by a couple of months. She's charismatic and passionate when she speaks but damn she's hard to listen to when she pulls shit out of her ass, much like Trump. She's just nowhere near the dick he is.
 
Habsy said:
Sanders sure did spark this "socialist" democratic movement but aside from the media and the coasts it won't go anywhere. Electoral college will kill it. Plus she's too young to run for President, you have to be at least 35.
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her birthday screws her, she's only 34 in 2024, so she needs to wait until 2028.
 
Apparently Trump was on Hannity last night, anyone catch it? Same old BS?

Edit:

Here it is:

[video=youtube;3h7OAlETfaY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h7OAlETfaY[/video]
 
Habsy said:
Golf is a good way to get to know a potential client or vendor. Does the player cheat? How is their demeanor? What stories are told. You can learn a lot more from a 4 hour golf outing than an hour conference room meeting.

Plus it gets you out of the office.
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I had never really considered this angle. I guess I get it from that perspective, but don't think it will ever be my cup of tea.
 
Habsy said:
So much this. Again last night Pelosi was out saying "ZERO dollars for the wall". It's the wrong message except to people like zeke and that Ditchpig guy (relax I'm teasing). Normal America that doesn't follow politics only hear $5B for a wall or nothing! $0 for a wall or nothing! and think it's stupid. 80% of people polled want enhanced border security with some component of barriers included. What they see are 3 old white people arguing like it's a mahjong game at the community pool.

Both arguments go to extremes. The middle ground is what will actually happen, more security with multiple components INCLUDING new barriers in strategic positions. This entire argument is ridiculous and really just pandering to their respective bases.
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ignoring the messaging though (I often think the Dems do a really poor job on this front), the $5 bn specifically for a border wall is idiotic on all levels. the Dems already agreed to give DHS $1.3 bn for border security. Trump has been clear that he wants his stupid wall, not any actual measures that would increase border security.

and my understanding is polling heavily favours the Democratic position (and messaging) on this issue.

if I'm being honest, I think this is Trump's opening salvo in his 2020 reelection campaign.

and, of course, these issues we are discussing should be entirely secondary to the main issue of, "why the **** is the government shut down?"

Trump is basically using a government shutdown to try and extort what he wants out of a Democratic controlled congress after he failed for two years to get the same from his own party. and your position seems to be that it is in the Dems interest to cave in to his demands, or reach some sort of compromise?
 
This is ALL about 2020. Do you think Trump really gives a shit about people? He made a signature promise and if that wall is not even partially built by the end of this year he will lose much of the base he has. $5B is peanuts, everyone that has a clue about what Washington spends on BS knows this. All it is for is to allow him to say "see, we got some money to build the wall but now we need to do more, reelect me in 2020".

If we weren't living in a dystopian version of America the mature thing would be to reopen government and get a deal done that includes ALL the outstanding issues on immigration and border security. It Trump and his acolytes weren't so arrogant they would realize that a large deal would likely incorporate money for border barriers/protection/more boots on the ground etc. Immigration reform including DACA, quotas, clear cut protocols that can't be skirted etc is more important than a wall at this point. Trump can get his funding if he gives people what they need. This would entail a long negotiation but would be worth it. We are, however, living in this dystopian scenario and because of it, neither side will budge.

I would gain a lot of respect for the first people to come out and say let's open the government and get to work on REAL solution. If they do not do so by the next budget, shut it down again (if you're Trump I mean).
 
Habsy said:
Sanders sure did spark this "socialist" democratic movement but aside from the media and the coasts it won't go anywhere. Electoral college will kill it. Plus she's too young to run for President, you have to be at least 35.
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I didn't say in 2020.
 
Oh one more thing, the Democrats don't control Congress, they control the House. Don't blame the Dems for McConnell.
 
Habsy said:
Apparently Trump was on Hannity last night, anyone catch it? Same old BS?

Edit:

Here it is:

[video=youtube;3h7OAlETfaY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h7OAlETfaY[/video]
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Hannity was literally a part of the president's entourage this trip.

That's not media.
 
Let's also be clear... again. The government is not shutdown. 85% of services are still funded. It's partial. The left loves to use blanket statements. If the government was completely shutdown Trump would have FAR more heat on him, he knew this was partial and he could take the hit.
 
The shutdown is going to kill January's jobs numbers because thousands are filing for temporary unemployment. I wonder if Trump thought of that.
 
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