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Babcock Death March


Well-known member
Ok, I have had enough of this guy. How long of a leash does Babcock have at this point? I am thinking if this keeps happening then he will be out by the first half of December. Some of the players already look like they are tuning him out.


However much I want Babcock replaced with Keefe, I have to be fair and acknowledge that he's doing much better this season than I expected. He has changed his ways. The pk and pp have improved, if results might no be there yet. He's giving guys a shot, rather than letting them rot in the press box, he's got away from the stretch pass and so on.

That said, the most damning thing is the inability to get the young forwards to play well without the puck and start games on time. The team continues to be a mess in its own end but that's not so much on the blueliners. The forwards also seem less willing to sacrifice themselves in the high danger areas.

But the worst thing about this team right now is the goaltending. That's not on the coach but the GM (and the human cap hoover). Not shoring up the goaltending was a blunder.


Well-known member
Yeah the big boys laying a turd to start the season combined with having bad goaltending is the reason for our poor start. Babs is and should be on the hot seat but I don't see anything he has done thus far as super negligent.


Well-known member
I agree with most of above.

But 2 things .....
First you are right about the starting on time comment.
But isnt that more on the players?
They are the ones who are out there.
You can debate babcocks ability to coach but the effort is all on the players.

I mentioned in the summer that I give his (babcocks) o/u for being terminated at the trade deadline.

But the problem is still with the players

My best uneducated guess is that this looks like a team that wants babcock gone, and that the defence doesnt trust the forwards and no one trusts the goaltending.

I really dont think keefe will be able to right this ship and if you are going with anyone else besides keefe, then why bother changing the coaching?

It will really suck having to give up a lottery 1st rounder this year if they miss the playoffs (which I doubt they will).

But this team is a Freddie injury away from hitting rock bottom. Maybe this is the best thing that could happen to get the forwards to start playing a proper 200 foot game.
Btw .... I love johnsson and his passion.

I would also like to see nylander at center and marner on the same line for a game or two.

Get that fucking goat off of the top 3 lines.
Also cherry is absolutely wrong when he talks about giving you grunts more pk time to rest your skilled forwards. I call bs with that one.

Tavares, marner, johnsson, hyman, kappy and Moore should all be staples out there on the pk. These are young men and they should be able to handle the extra 2 or 3 minutes a game.

You pay these guys millions of dollars... now start playing them accordingly.

Babcock has to know what is going on here.... is he that obtuse and stubborn?

I think BL or MZ made a comment about maybe looking for Freddie's replacement as an option on Hutchison.
It will cost a kappy or johnsson, but it will solidify the team in net with Freddie and the heir apparent as the backstops for the next few years until anderson leaves.

I think the defence has been pretty decent so far too.
Barrie is as advertised. I like him more than I liked gardiner.
Muzzin is out of position alot but he is physical and a bit nuts lol and he has a decent shot and will takeoff with the puck.
Reilly has been sub form defensively so far this year but I have to wonder is it his partners or is he trying to live up to the new letter?
Holl has been wonderful I think, and I was totally against his position on this team. Talk about falling into a surprise gifting lol.
Dermot is always overrated here so I wont even bother. But he is a good number 4/5.
Marincin always plays like he is tangled up in fishing line. He looks like he Wants to strike out and conquer but is so worried about tripping over his own mind. I think that this might be one player who can flourish if the cock is gone.
Ceci ..... better than I expected but if you need a few million .... there it is.
Gravel is a pylon. A worse version of polak. Why the **** is he up here?

Come to think of it .... the leafs use to be so enthusiastic in their play .... now it is just shadows and motions.

I would give it another month before the door starts closing on babcock tenure here.
He deserves to have his hyman project back, and his best centerman back in the lineup as well as having his number 4 dman back too.

Finally .... every team that becomes a powerhouse in the league goes through these valleys. .... the oilers with gretz and crew had to learn ..... the pens had to learn, chicago had to learn and hopefull these leafs will too.

Hutchison has to go.


Well-known member
If they play like this into December he's gone. Leafs cannot waste another year. There's nothing wrong with firing a coach in year 5 with the team having the same issues year after year and never winning a playoff series with this talent.
While he's improved in some areas, there's too many he does not. And the team just looks disinterested. Making all the more obvious, Leafs have the replacement coaching in the same city and he's doing a fantastic job.


Well-known member
the leafs will win 3-4 of their next 5, be at a 100ish point pace, get all of Tavares, Hyman, Dermott back from injury, and get Andersen into a hot streak, and everything will be fine.


Well-known member
Honestly, now that we've gotten off to this bad start, I hope the struggles continue. And maybe even get worse. Because this whole season feels pretty futile to me if we just roll back into the playoffs with Babcock at the helm.

It's the equivalent of last year's Raptors deciding to stick with Dwayne Casey. That's not to say that Sheldon Keefe would necessarily turn out to be the Leafs' version of Nick Nurse. But I really don't see the downside to giving it a try.


Wayward Ditch Pig
88 pt pace since December 29, 2018. At what point is this a problem?
Depends on what you think the problem is...

since Dec 29th 2018

CF% - 5th
SV% - 27th

I want to hear more about how Freddy is guaranteed to be fine in the regular season. Who fwiw is tied for 20th in SV% among goalies with more than 1000 5 on 5 minutes played, 29th in HDSV% over that period...and InB4 "but the defence", he's faced the 22nd most HD shots against/60, and the 27th closest shot distance, both are average to average plus. So the Leafs defence isn't giving up some tremendous amount of high quality shots against, Freddy just isn't stopping enough of them

.909 SV% over that period of time in total now in 38 games played. When do we stop calling it a slump?