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The ****ing Off Season thread

hockeylover said:
Well, you certainly seem to be using it as a some sort of point in his favour.
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ii don't know what this has to do with making points in somebody's favour. the only point is that last year wasn't a totally hopeless season.

we aren't talking about a season like the flames or oilers or sabres or panthers just had.

Look, there might be reasons to give Carlyle another chance but I don't think any of those reasons are supported by everything else they're saying they want to do. I don't see the logic there whatsoever.
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if the leafs hadn't hired carlyle in 2011, and if he had spent a few years on the sidelines, and the leafs had fired wilson at the end of 13-14... randy carlyle would be on the top of their list of candidates. hands down.

it is totally understandable that they would be reticent to fire a coach who has a long history of success, including a playoff berth in the previous season, following an 84 point season in which the tema was comfortably in the playoffs until mid march.
 
LeafGm said:
I think the person playing semantics here is the guy claiming that 23rd overall in the NHL, and comfortably out of a playoff spot is a "winning record".
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if it were up to you guys they should turn over 2/3 of the roster and fire the caoch every time they miss the playoffs.

team building takes time. they took two steps forward in 2013. a step back this year. some issues need to be addressed, including coaching -- that doesn't mean you have to fire the coach.

you keep evading my point, which is simply that they're trying to build a winner, they have a coach who has a long history of winning, and it's totally rational to give him more than 2 seasons to try and right this ship.

it isn't like he lost the room last year, or that the players want him out, or that the star players are disillusioned, or that the team was a bottom feeder last year.

he has had some success here. he had immense success in anaheim. and he has only been here for 2 seasons. nothing wrong with giving him a bit more time.

that's my only point.

you guys can grasp at semantics if you'd like, though.
 
anyways, this place has become totally insufferable.

complaining about everything. just like the jays fans over on scout.

enjoy the summer. hopefully everybody here takes a breather and starts enjoying hockey again come october.
 
it is totally understandable that they would be reticent to fire a coach who has a long history of success, including a playoff berth in the previous season, following an 84 point season in which the tema was comfortably in the playoffs until mid march.
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...Until mid March when the team put together a stretch comparable if not worse than anything any of those shit teams you named did.

The sentence needs to be finished, I think.

I think I'd be more okay with the decision if Shanahan truly believed it was a personnel issue and not a coaching issue but to keep him and say there was a huge problem with our system and then make statements that suggest there might not be major changes personnel wise (example: I'm wondering how the heck there will be major changes to our center situation if they plan to bring Bolland back)... it just seems bizarre to me. And it seems like we're in for a lot more the same next year.

I suppose I don't have as much faith in Carlyle to drastically overhaul his approach next year.
 
The Leafs are rewarding failure by giving Caryle an extension. Keep him fine, but don't give an extension.

And yes, I know it means "Nothing", It's not cap money and he can be fired next season. It's just the message it sends that's ridiculous.
 
And trust me, I'm NOT letting the players off the hook.

The players are the ones who play the games, not Carlyle. I have often said coaches are overrated (and many talk like Babcock can turn the team from 8th worst to contender just by coaching ... no, he won't)

Which is why I have ANOTHER problem with Shanny. He's already publicly endorsed bringing keeping Dion as captain, as his top d-man, and endorsed bringing Bolland back.

So if you're bringing supposedly you top defensive defenseman, your top defensive forward, and your headcoach back after such a colossal collapse, where's the accountability???

On one hand you're preaching drastic changes, on the other you are keeping your personnel status quo ... that isn't gonna work.

But changing the headcoach is really the easiest to do, it brings a significant different culture on the ice and in the dressing room, and it's not like Carlyle did not share most of the responsibility for the failed season either. It's almost the must-do thing to initiate changes with the team. And instead he gave him a 2 years extension ... that's why fans and hockey ppl like Mirtle, Bobby Mac find it 'mind-boggling'.
 
Not every team fires the coach and overhauls the roster after every disappointing year. We're used to recycling coaches here and turning over half the roster every offseason because this is a team that has consistently shaken things up for the sake of shaking things up.

Patience is the best practice for building a team though. There is nothing wrong with deferring. Trying to make moves now when they may not be available is how teams make mistakes. And we've seen that those kind of mistakes can have a lasting effect, that well outlives a GM/coaches life span here (Shitniak, Raycroft and Toskala trades. Imagine this team with Steen, Rask and Eller/Couture. Also firing Quinn to soon because they had one disappointing season).

The deadline for this team to be good isn't October. They'll make moves that improve the team where they can. And some of that will happen now. But they likely won't have their ideal roster come next season.
 
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On another note I heard on the radio that Nonis said they will be looking to add older, cheaper vets in free agency as opposed to going after the big, expensive, ultimately overpaid fish. Another great change to their approach that I am on board with.

No more Clarkson, Komi or Armstrong signings.

The way the organization approaches almost everything is changing under Shanahan. Even if much of the people here remain the same. You don't need different people to make drastic changes to how an organization operates.
 
I think it's pretty absurd to suggest/imply that if you want Carlyle fired you must be some mouthbreather who overreacts to everything and is no better than some radio show caller.

I didn't call for Carlyle to be fired last year. I didn't call for Carlyle to be fired until the season was over and we...

a) gave up more shots than almost any team in recent memory
b) saw zero improvements to our defensive system over the course of the year
c) watched Carlyle sit there and tell us how "mind-boggling" this all is and tell us he has "no clue" what to do about it - night after night after night
d) lose 8 straight in regulation - something that none of the shittiest teams in the league the past few seasons have managed to do

Those are my reasons. You don't really have to agree with them but suggesting I'm just someone who likes to whine about stuff is ****ing annoying. In fact, the last time I whined about something this much it was about Tyler Biggs and it was the same two posters telling me I was just overreacting and "looking for something to complain about".
 
Nonis on why they decided to keep Carlyle (paraphrasing):
1. They thought he has had success here and think he overachieved with the roster he was given last year.
2. They really like the way the young players have developed under him.
 
leafman101 said:
Nonis on why they decided to keep Carlyle (paraphrasing):
1. They thought he has had success here and think he overachieved with the roster he was given last year.
2. They really like the way the young players have developed under him.
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Last year like this past season or vs Boston?

I just feel like this makes Nonis look really bad.
 
Nonis made a good point. In other sports changing the assistants is done regularly and seen as a way to improve the team. Its only in the NHL where for some reason its become a whole sale coaching changes, or nothing. It doesn't really make much sense. Of course changing assistant coaches will effect a team.
 
leafman101 said:
Nonis on why they decided to keep Carlyle (paraphrasing):
1. They thought he has had success here and think he overachieved with the roster he was given last year.
2. They really like the way the young players have developed under him.
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Since virtually the whole roster is young, i feel like 1 and 2 contradict each other.
 
Not really. They say the same thing. He got more out of the young guys than they expected.

And its hard to argue. Under Carlyle Kessel has become a 200 foot player; JVR has turned into one of the best players in the league in front of the net; Kadri has become a top 6 center; and Gardiner and Rielly started to look real good down the stretch last year.

All the young guys have developed and played big roles over the last 2 years.
 
leafman101 said:
Nonis on why they decided to keep Carlyle (paraphrasing):
1. They thought he has had success here and think he overachieved with the roster he was given last year.
2. They really like the way the young players have developed under him.
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Points 1 and 2 contradict each other, we didn't have any rookies in the lineup last year outside of rielly, so on one hand he's blaming the players (rightfully so) but with the other hand he's saying how good they are. You can't have it both ways Nonis either the roster was good enough to make the playoffs or shitty enough to miss them, its the latter and if Nonis wants to play the blame game on the players then he needs to look in the mirror because he is the one who brought them in.
 
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Peter Holland ($1.500m) / Dave Bolland ($4.000m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
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Thoughts?
 
Leafin' said:
Thoughts?
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My thoughts? I don't see how adding Moulson even begins to fix the issues on this team, and the depth down the middle is iffy at best. You DONT build a succuessful team around the wingers, contending teams are built in net then the blueline then down the middle, the wingers are merely add ons to complete the puzzle.

The way I look at it, the Leafs need to blow all their money and assets to fix the centres and maybe add a top 4D either by trade or signing. None of those centres we have currently (outside of Mcclement) are good on faceoffs, all three struggle with it... people will say "oh faceoffs are over-rated" but no they aren't, they are vital to maintaining puck possession.
 
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