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OT: The News Thread

corksens said:
I know that Forcillo had his weapon out. I didn't post those videos to suggest that wasn't the case. I posted them to show you how fast someone can lunge and cover ground.

To suggest that Yatim was no longer a threat is incorrect. He absolutely was. Forcillo felt he was making a move and fired his pistol. Yatim then on his back in the street car reached over with his left hand toward the knife and Forcillo released the remaining 6 shots.

At worst that is negligence causing death. But murder? MURDER? Are you guys for real.
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It wasn't a murder verdict. Why do you keep insisting it was?
 
SundinsTooth said:
It wasn't a murder verdict. Why do you keep insisting it was?
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To be fair, we're suggesting that it should have been.

There was no lunge, no quick steps, nothing aside from the manic pacing of a young man with a knife who had only one heavily covered access/egress point from which he could attack anyone. I expect someone that we're paying a professional salary to, to be able to maintain themselves in that situation and make the right decision on use of force. That was not an out of control situation with lives on the line and an improper amount of police resources on scene, that was a contained situation with numerous service weapons trained on the access/egress point and where de escalation should have been the primary concern, not compliance with the demands of officers when clearly the subject wasn't with the program on a mental level. There was no time limit on a resolution.
 
Other cops on the scene didn't Dirty Harry his ass, so maybe, just maybe this guy was a lousy excuse of a cop and a guilty verdict lets other lousy cops know that the gig is up? How is that a bad thing?
 
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The gig is up? I dunno, we'll see about that. It'll be a minor miracle if the one charge that stuck doesn't get stayed or overturned on appeal. It'll also be somewhat of a miracle if the judge doesn't give him the lightest possible sentence.

And as per usual, there are also no consequences for Forcillo's fellow officers, who falsified official records and lied under oath to cover his ass.
 
corksens said:
I know that Forcillo had his weapon out. I didn't post those videos to suggest that wasn't the case. I posted them to show you how fast someone can lunge and cover ground.

To suggest that Yatim was no longer a threat is incorrect. He absolutely was. Forcillo felt he was making a move and fired his pistol. Yatim then on his back in the street car reached over with his left hand toward the knife and Forcillo released the remaining 6 shots.

At worst that is negligence causing death. But murder? MURDER? Are you guys for real.
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Irony defined.

Can you give me one even remotely reasonable explanation for the 6 shots in the second volley. Is there any chance whatsoever (even if he was reaching for the knife) that he was a threat to officers several feet away with their guns drawn?
 
I completely understand giving cops the benefit of the doubt... I tend to. I don't call cops "pigs" or anything insulting. I think they have one of the toughest and scariest jobs around and they don't get nearly the respect that they deserve on a whole. But there are flat out terrible cops, just like there are flat out terrible people at every job.

I just don't see how anyone with full mental capacity can watch that video and not think it was murder. Why defend the indefensible?
 
corksens said:
How can the second volley of bullets be murder if it was established the first volley killed him.

The amount of stress someone can experience being in a situation like that is unreal. Do you think he just wanted to pop some extra bullets into Yatim for shits and giggles. The first volley was because they had an aggressive young male with a knife. The second volley could have been any number of reasons...
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It is too bad they are not trained for that.
 
Habspatrol said:
I completely understand giving cops the benefit of the doubt... I tend to. I don't call cops "pigs" or anything insulting. I think they have one of the toughest and scariest jobs around and they don't get nearly the respect that they deserve on a whole. But there are flat out terrible cops, just like there are flat out terrible people at every job.

I just don't see how anyone with full mental capacity can watch that video and not think it was murder. Why defend the indefensible?
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I wouldn't call it murder. That requires a degree of pre-meditation and intent that wasn't present. I *do* think that Forcillo should have received an involuntary manslaughter conviction though.
 
worm said:
It is too bad they are not trained for that.
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:nono:

Silly worm. Police are not supposed to place themselves in dangerous situations or circumstances that can lead to physical harm. That's not what policing entails. Who do you think they are, trained law enforcement officials armed with several non-lethal options?
 
LeafGm said:
Can you please stop repeating as fact what the video evidence (and analysis in court) has shown to be a steaming pile of horseshit?

Yatim was not making a move, and he sure as **** wasn't reaching for the knife when he was on the ground bleeding out with his spine and heart ripped to shreds.
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Umm - I'm going by the National Post infographic that uses the video and court resources.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
I wouldn't call it murder. That requires a degree of pre-meditation and intent that wasn't present. I *do* think that Forcillo should have received an involuntary manslaughter conviction though.
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I wouldn't call it 1st degree murder. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure it's murder if you can reasonably assume your actions will cause death.
 
Habspatrol said:
I wouldn't call it 1st degree murder. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure it's murder if you can reasonably assume your actions will cause death.
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That doesn't really apply to police officers though. They are taught that they have to eliminate the threat (or perceived threat in this instance) and then immediately initiate medical care to the target once the threat is eliminated.

Involuntary manslaughter fits much better in that instance.
 
corksens said:
And still human. Virtually no amount of training can duplicate the intensity of shooting another person.
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It depends on the circumstance in which the killings take place. There's a great book entitled "On Killing" that describes the psychological process by which humans kill other humans. One thing that they discovered was that snipers were much more easily able to kill their targets because of both the distance and the psychological effect of using a scope (thereby putting another barrier between them and their kills).
 
corksens said:
And still human. Virtually no amount of training can duplicate the intensity of shooting another person.
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The other officers seemed to manage just fine. Don't worry though, I'm sure this guy will do better the next time after this charge he's appealing is over turned and he goes back to work.
 
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