Because the Canadiens are loaded with 60 point forwards in their mid-20's. Oh wait a minute . . .
Would you dangle Sergachev for Duchene?
- Thread starter hairnova
- Start date
Because the Canadiens are loaded with 60 point forwards in their mid-20's. Oh wait a minute . . .
BKerr
Banned
I want an elite forward that moves the needle if I'm giving up Sergachev.
Sure I'd take another 60 point guy, I'm just not giving Sergachev to do it.
Make another package... Juulsen + Gallagher + 1st.
Cheliosity
Active member
How can we know that Sergachev will be making an impact during our (small) window? What have you seen that gives you assurance that this is the case? We don't know. We do know what this young C will bring .....at a MINIMUM.
Now the question is still a bit vague in that it doesn't propose a full deal....so it's hard to answer. But if you don't think that MB would involve Sergachev in a potential deal for Duchene.......that is to say if you think mentioning Sergachev in a deal for Duchene is a non-starter......then I think you are crazy....and MB would be too.
Cheliosity
Active member
Yes, of course I would try another package first, but that wasn't the question. The question was would you dangle Sergachev for Duchene....I assume he mention at all...ever. So if that package didnt work, you wouldnt include Sergachev in any package for Duchene ?
BKerr
Banned
Sure we don't know.
We also don't know that what Duchene will bring, at a minimum is going to be enough to get us the cup.
There are no guarantees. I'm all about extending the window for as long as possible. Giving multiple chances at the cup. The best way to do that is to have elite talent at key positions. Our LHD is absolute shit in the minors, and Markov isn't getting younger. Emelin-Beaulieu-Barberio is not a good depth chart at the position, but an elite talent makes it look a lot better, and extends the window for a team that has Galchenyuk at just 22, Price relatively young for a goalie, Max isn't old, Gallagher, Danault, etc.... I don't think our window is closing so fast that Sergachev who is 1-2 years away IMO can't be a part of it.
And to me, its VERY, VERY, VERY hard to get elite talent. Its hard but not impossible to get very good, non-elite talent. I would never give up potential Elite talent for very good but less than elite.
I don't think its crazy at all to hold on to a young prospect who could be elite instead of moving him for a very good but not elite player.
That's the type of trade that gets teams in trouble all the time. Its the kind of thinking that led to a number of Leaf trades over the years, the type that kept them a laughing stock, and its the kind of thinking that gets you into a McDonagh for Gomez deal. Lets be clear, I don't expect Duchene to turn into Gomez. But you are doing the same thing, moving a potential number 1 defenceman, for a 60 point centre.
BKerr
Banned
Duchene? No... I wouldn't.
Give me a guy with potential elite ceiling, like MacKinnon if I'm including Sergachev in my package.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
Completely illogical. That's a canard.
BKerr
Banned
Its illogical to compare defenceman picked 8th and 9th overall in 2015, to a defenceman picked 9th overall in 2016?
Oh and the guy picked in 2016 was also the youngest ever to win OHL defenceman of the year.
Sal_Butera
Well-known member
I find it interesting Sergachev has already been labeled a "can't miss prospect". Historically 1st round D prospects don't live up to their billing unless they're top-3 even then many don't become "all that"
BKerr
Banned
Who said he was can't miss.
I talked about his ceiling being super high... which it is.
Habsy
Yes, I'm kidding people.
It's illogical to make assumptions of the development of one prospect based on the development of another regardless of where they were drafted.
Cheliosity
Active member
Ok - So for the sake of discussion....you wouldnt do Sergachev for Duchene then ? I'm wondering what potential package including Sergachev you would turn down for Duchene. It sounds like you wouldnt trade him under any circumstances , when the theoretical question here is if you would part with him for Duchene under any circumstances. You literally hear "Sergachev" and hang up before Sakic says ".....for Duchene" ?
The reason I answer "yes" here is because if the Avs value Sergachev enough that they would do Duchene for him + something not so substantial to our future. I would think its a done deal.
Cheliosity
Active member
Yes this is true, but I dont think the leafs have been in a position like we are in now. There is a distinct difference between those teams and this, as good as they were. They had no Price or Weber to start. I dont know that they got an upper level 26 yo Center either, did they?
Also, as I noted, our situation is different in that MB has traded PK for the older Weber. You say that Sergachev MAY be able to contribute during the window that he provides.....Duchene's contribution during that window is FAR more likley. Nobody can argue that. Let's not forget Price's contract is expiring and we cannot assume he is in it for the long run. When MB traded PK for Weber he said we are ALL IN and he has to follow up on that. The trade doesnt make sense otherwise.
Cheliosity
Active member
I understand that philosophy, but I dont subscribe to it. We've been making the playoffs for years and having moderate success. It is not enough. I'm a Broncos fan. They won the SB last year as you know. When they missed the playoffs this year, I got over it quickly. A championship can satisfy a fan for years.
BKerr
Banned
I don't do Sergachev + NOTHING for Duchene.... I don't think you move him without getting an ELITE talent back.
I'd move Sergachev, but not for a guy who is settled in at the 60 point mark. I think you have to do better than that if you are willing to move him. You need to get someone who really moves the needle.
If we are talking Sergachev +++ for Tavares, then sure, thats the kind of elite talent that moves the needle.
Getting a guy in Duchene who would become what, the 10th best centre in the conference (just a guess, i haven't run the list), doesn't move the needle enough to give up a potential top dman.
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BKerr
Banned
Sure a Championship can. But Duchene doesn't guarantee a Championship.
Your best bet to win a Championship is to have multiple cracks at winning it.
Sal_Butera
Well-known member
My counter: Had Gomez delivered as a 60-70pt C, McDonagh's loss would not have been as much of an issue, and the Habs teams of those years were nowhere near as good/deep.
Having said that, I would prefer Duchene were more of a physical brut strength C to complement Galchenyuk's finesse style and most importantly not crazy about him being UFA in 2-seasons for an ELC like Sergachev.
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