worm
Well-known member
He was pretty "unclassy" to Hamilton.
Habs trade PK Subban to Predators for Shea Weber
- Thread starter hairnova
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He was pretty "unclassy" to Hamilton.
worm
Well-known member
summary:
first month
THIS IS THE WORST TRADE EVER
since
meh hopefully weber doesn't suck
You quoted the exact reason that answers your question. Still a lot of dinosaurs in the league and running Hockey Canada. They have guys like Vlasic, Muzzin, Marchand on the team.
This is the same organization that selected Rob Zamuner for the Olympics.
We have no idea how many GMs and coaches prefer Weber to PK. We know that our geniuses do and we know that Babcock does... and maybe a couple others have said something, outside of that we don't really know.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
Vlasic and Marchand have been pretty good for TC, so maybe they know a thing or two.
That's about right. I hate the trade but I'm a Hab fan and I'm ready to embrace the 2016-17 version of the team. As much as I hate the trade I have always liked Weber and I will be a huge fan of him.
That's the thing with team Canada. They're so strong that even the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier guys are still damn good players and they're playing with the elite of the elite. Hell Marchand is playing on a line with Crosby. It's not surprising that he's been looking good.
worm
Well-known member
worm
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GrandWazoo
Well-known member
He looks better than just about anybody we tried with Crosby in the past tournaments.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
I tend to agree and yet I don't quite see Subban fitting in the way Babcock wants this team to play.
Don't forget, Marchand also scored his 37 goals last season playing on a line with with Crosby, so . . .
The Zamuner/Weber apparent TC parallel is so obviously wrong it's not worth discussing.
BKerr
Banned
There is more than just Zamuner though.
Team Canada has made numerous bad choices over the years, even in tournaments they won. Chris Kunitz was a bad choice. Kris Draper over then 18-year-old Sidney Crosby was a bad choice. Leaving Ron Francis off the 1998 team was a bad choice. Yzerman couldn't crack the team in 1987 and 1991. Ranford over Roy. The list is long.
Just cause team canada management takes someone doesn't make it the right choice. And yes I know, management groups change. But when a management team is picked, its generally seen at the time, to include top hockey minds in the world. The 1998 team (in 1998) was as respected as the 2016 management team is now. Respected hockey guys can and do still make mistakes, no one is perfect.
That said, given that Canada has been willing to play Pietrangelo on the left side in this tournament. It is Muzzin and Bouwmeester over Subban that is more curious than Weber.
Team Canada has made numerous bad choices over the years, even in tournaments they won. Chris Kunitz was a bad choice. Kris Draper over then 18-year-old Sidney Crosby was a bad choice. Leaving Ron Francis off the 1998 team was a bad choice. Yzerman couldn't crack the team in 1987 and 1991. Ranford over Roy. The list is long.
Just cause team canada management takes someone doesn't make it the right choice. And yes I know, management groups change. But when a management team is picked, its generally seen at the time, to include top hockey minds in the world. The 1998 team (in 1998) was as respected as the 2016 management team is now. Respected hockey guys can and do still make mistakes, no one is perfect.
That said, given that Canada has been willing to play Pietrangelo on the left side in this tournament. It is Muzzin and Bouwmeester over Subban that is more curious than Weber.
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
They may be meaningless to me but they aren't meaningless to the people who matter in the league. And those people are the same ones who showed no interest in taking on Subban's contract. Habs fans need to accept the fact that while Subban is a very good player he clearly isn't considered elite by the vast majority of the coaching and management establishment, even if he's being paid as though he were. There's a reason why he isn't wearing a Team Canada jersey right now. Too much sizzle and not enough steak. But Habs fans have a well known reputation for valuing style over substance. They don't like the trade because they like PK as a CELEBRITY. They like him because they think he's cool. They like all those off ice antics (that he faithfully records on video and posts online to make sure everyone sees them and knows how cool he is) But none of that is going to win us any Cups. And in a season from hell when the team sucked so badly the last thing anyone (especially his teammates) wanted or needed to see was PK out on the town having fun.
Other coaches and GM's around the league see those things and ask themselves if they want to let that particular ingredient into their dressing rooms. And as we saw and as Bergevin found out, the answer in most cases was no.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
They're only bad choices if they don't win. Canada has been nothing short of dominant with Weber playing a key role on defense.
BKerr
Banned
I don't think Weber is a bad choice for the record... Subban should be on the team, but replacing Muzzin or Bouwmeester or Pietrangelo.
That said, "They're only bad choices if they don't win." isn't accurate. Chris Chelios for Denis Savard is still a bad trade even if the Habs won a cup with Savard and the Hawks didn't with Chelios.
Same thing here, the 1991 team made a bad choice with Ranford over Roy.
The 2014 team made a bad choice with Kunitz.
A number of winning teams have made bad choices. Winning does not mean they were perfect.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
Agree about Muzzin, Bouwmeester or Pietrangelo but I would have personally selected Letang before all of them, including Subban.
How was Ranford a bad choice? He went undefeated and was selected on the tournament all-star team? Roy was still pretty inconsistent at that time of his career.
That being said, yes I agree in general, but winning makes it easier to overlook a potential mistake.
How was Ranford a bad choice? He went undefeated and was selected on the tournament all-star team? Roy was still pretty inconsistent at that time of his career.
That being said, yes I agree in general, but winning makes it easier to overlook a potential mistake.
The problem with Subban that rubs coaches the wrong way (not just Therrien and Babcock) but I'm sure many coaches would say the same thing is that his penchant to try and do too much on his own just ends up completely throwing the system and his teammates into disarray on the ice.
PK has unbelievable talent but until he realizes that at times less is more he won't get the respect his talent really deserves.
It's a shame because he's more talented than any of the dmen on team Canada but unfortunately his style of play doesn't exude confidence from his coaches and teammates.
BKerr
Banned
In 1991 Roy was not inconsistent.
Fair to say he was inconsistent in 87 and 88... but before the 1991 tournament he won the Vezina in both 89 and 90, and would win it again in the season following the tournament. Sandwiched around that tournament he won 3/4 Vezina trophies. He was second in Vezina voting in the 90-91 season (Ranford was 10th). Those are the only three Vezinas of his career. He was arguably approaching his peak at that point.
The Save percentage in 90-91... 906 for Roy (2nd in the NHL)... 893 for Ranford (12th in the NHL).
Roy was much more experienced than the goalie who beat him for the 1991 Vezina (Belfour). That said the goalie tandem should have been Roy and Belfour.
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GrandWazoo
Well-known member
It was during that period that Neely would totally own his ass in the playoffs. We had 3 2nd round exits in a row after 1989.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
Looking back, Roy was having a sinus operation as an excuse for missing the tournament.