GDT: Canes v. Red Wings 4/11 7:00
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Paulie Walnuts
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If the Canes try to unload 4 players at once , or even in 1 off season the law of supply and demand applies. Which means that drives down the value of those players even more.
But if you don't care what you get back then I guess it doesn't matter. The return could be a six pack of bud light.
As far as rebuilding by getting rid of everyone a team like Toronto doesn't mind that because they are going to sell out every game no matter how bad they are. And the cap doesn't matter to them either since they can pay people in the minors a lot which doesn't count under the cap.
But if you don't care what you get back then I guess it doesn't matter. The return could be a six pack of bud light.
As far as rebuilding by getting rid of everyone a team like Toronto doesn't mind that because they are going to sell out every game no matter how bad they are. And the cap doesn't matter to them either since they can pay people in the minors a lot which doesn't count under the cap.
It won't have changed much from the trade deadline. It's got to be a team that's already set to make the playoffs and win a round, but needs that kind of player to move deeper. It's going to be a team that already has an established #1 guy, and they have to believe that Eric can make the difference between going home early versus going home late, or just staying out partying in mid-June. Not a lot of buyers there, but there are not a lot of players like Eric, either. So what are you willing to give up? Anyone of quality, so long as you have solid organizational depth at that position. You might be willing to wrap a low first-round pick, depending on who it is. What do you want to take on that contract? Ask Carolina to take unproductive salary back. Say, an aging overpaid defenseman with a similar term remaining. Who would still be better than our current #3 defenseman. Which would help us solve a short-term problem while our "pipeline" matures. (See the more rational comments about the Staal-Chara discussion somewhere around here.)
It can be done.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
You only get up to about $1 million in cap relief when you bury a player in the minors (who makes more than $1 million of course). For example, if the Canes decided to send Semin down to the minors, his cap hit against the Canes NHL cap would remain around $6.05 million per year, even if he is in Charlotte.
So you can get some cap relief by burying players, but only a little bit. If the Leafs are going to go big time rebuild, you are correct that their ability to bleed cash without blinking gives them an advantage. The cap and restrictions on retained salary (up to 3 at a time) helps keep them in check somewhat, but they won't need to blink at taking bad contracts back if they need to go that route. IE if they decide to trade Kessel, they can get prospects/picks back and take on $10 million in bad (and expiring) contracts without any concerns.
What is going to bother me the most is if the Leafs go forward with the full rebuild and the Canes continue to just pick around the edges. I think we are all hoping the Canes do big things this offseason, it will be interesting to watch how the Leafs approach their situation, especially when their high priced guys like Phaneuf and Kessel have lots of term left on their deals. Teams willing to part with the best prospects/picks might get themselves a pretty darn good player this offseason and at the same time be able to clear some dreck back to the Leafs to offset the salaries. Meanwhile the Leafs will be stockpiling picks/prospects and setting themselves up with future cap room.
I expect the Leafs to pull this off very very successfully and be back with a vengance in a 2-3 years. Even with everyone saying the right things about the Canes setting up for long term success, I'm not yet convinced. Ronnie has the offseason to prove to me that we have a long term plan and its starts this coming season. Personally I'm ok with another painful season next year as long as its part of a long term vision that has us a significant playoff contender every year starting in 16-17.
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SlapShots
Well-known member
If the Hurricanes are serious about truly developing a farm system like Detroit, then the last thing you do is send Semin to Charlotte- he'd be a cancer in that room. He needs to bought out, convinced his future is in the KHL (given the Russian economy, not going to happen) or figure our some way to trade him.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
Absolutely, I was just using Semin as an example. He will either still be here (not my first choice, but I'm sort of torn at the moment...more on that below), bought out (I think the most likely scenario if something is done this offseason) or dealt with us retaining salary. No way the Canes would bury him in the minors, that would make no sense at all.
It a tough call on Semin at the moment for me as I think about it more. A buyout is the easiest thing to do. You just call that dead money over 6 years and then don't have to worry about it anymore. But I could see a scenario where Ronnie and crew decide that there might still be something worth trying to save with Semin and give him one more year, especially if our return to playoff relevance is viewed as something that won't be possible next year. We don't HAVE to make a move on Semin this offseason if next year is still a rebuilding year. If we keep him again next year and he sucks still, well, then maybe you try to trade him again for whatever or buy him out in the 2016 offseason. If he figures it out and becomes a somewhat useful 20 goal 50 point guy again then a trade may be easier to make (or maybe we retain him).
If the Canes are not going to obviously contend next year, I'm not convinced now that we HAVE to do something with Semin this offseason. We may be better served holding on to him and letter whatever happens next year with him happen and then re-evaluate. This team has so many holes to fill I don't see how we enter next season thinking we are going to make the playoffs. If that proves to be the case/plan, at least as I sit today, I'm thinking we should hold on to Semin at least one more year and cross our fingers. Its not like he's going to hurt his trade value any more. Rather than locking in the dead money now, how much harm is there to giving it one more year if we are destined to suck already next year?
Ask me again tomorrow I might say buy him out for sure and Peters might have spent half of that trip back to Raleigh begging Francis to get rid of Semin. But I can see a play here where it could make sense to not yet cut the cord on Semin.
It a tough call on Semin at the moment for me as I think about it more. A buyout is the easiest thing to do. You just call that dead money over 6 years and then don't have to worry about it anymore. But I could see a scenario where Ronnie and crew decide that there might still be something worth trying to save with Semin and give him one more year, especially if our return to playoff relevance is viewed as something that won't be possible next year. We don't HAVE to make a move on Semin this offseason if next year is still a rebuilding year. If we keep him again next year and he sucks still, well, then maybe you try to trade him again for whatever or buy him out in the 2016 offseason. If he figures it out and becomes a somewhat useful 20 goal 50 point guy again then a trade may be easier to make (or maybe we retain him).
If the Canes are not going to obviously contend next year, I'm not convinced now that we HAVE to do something with Semin this offseason. We may be better served holding on to him and letter whatever happens next year with him happen and then re-evaluate. This team has so many holes to fill I don't see how we enter next season thinking we are going to make the playoffs. If that proves to be the case/plan, at least as I sit today, I'm thinking we should hold on to Semin at least one more year and cross our fingers. Its not like he's going to hurt his trade value any more. Rather than locking in the dead money now, how much harm is there to giving it one more year if we are destined to suck already next year?
Ask me again tomorrow I might say buy him out for sure and Peters might have spent half of that trip back to Raleigh begging Francis to get rid of Semin. But I can see a play here where it could make sense to not yet cut the cord on Semin.
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CanadaCanes
Well-known member
The Semin weirdness continues...yesterday WTVD did a piece on the Canes exit interviews and Semin agreed to be interviewed (but not showing his face on camera). He blamed perhaps his surgery last summer on his unproductive season...BTW...those 6 goals this past season were worth about $1.2 million per goal!!! This guy continues to be one of the worst acquistions in the history of sports...bravo yet again JR!!!
Semin cost $1,166,666.67 per goal or $368,421.05 per scoring point. He had fewer goals than Lindholm, Rask, Terry, Gerbe, Nash McClement, Nestrasil and Malone. If you add all their salaries up it comes to $6.425 million.
And I'm going to say that it was a brilliant acquisition...for the 12-13 season. The 5 year/$35 million extension is another kettle of rotten fish. :wink
SlapShots
Well-known member
I get your point and I also get that you're in flux on how to handle Semin. Your "warm body theory" of a player who has skill is an option, but he's the type of player that can suck the life out of a rebuild. You expend energy working around him and trying to get others to work harder, play your system and play a complete game when he does no such thing. How do you handle a Jeff Skinner who was completely underwhelming in all facets of the game when you have a Semin?
cmaleski2
Well-known member
I guess I would call it 'warm body we will be paying anyway in some way theory'. I won't miss the guy if the Canes cut and run, as I stated that is the easiest thing to do, then you just move on and completely eliminate all of the questions and headaches. But I also could understand if he's on the roster opening night for 'one more chance'.
If we were on the cusp of a playoff run next year then I would definitely get rid of him via a buyout or trade if there was any option there, no doubt. Considering just how far off we are from being a playoff team next year, its not so definite to me that the Canes get rid of him this offseason without trying to squeeze some kind of life/value out of him first. I expect that this will be an topic Ronnie and Peters will definitely be talking about a whole heck of a lot. Its probably Peters input that will make this call.
If we were on the cusp of a playoff run next year then I would definitely get rid of him via a buyout or trade if there was any option there, no doubt. Considering just how far off we are from being a playoff team next year, its not so definite to me that the Canes get rid of him this offseason without trying to squeeze some kind of life/value out of him first. I expect that this will be an topic Ronnie and Peters will definitely be talking about a whole heck of a lot. Its probably Peters input that will make this call.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
It might be that simple JFG and the decision might already be made. But I would understand if they choose to hold onto him one more year. You could sell me on the logic behind that (misguided as it might be). I'm not going to be militant about getting rid of Semin as being the sink or swim decision for the future. I think figuring out what the plan is with E. Staal and Cam Ward is the higher priority.
CarolinaPen
Active member
100% agree with your position on Semin as the Canes have bigger issues to fix.....and they are named Staal. No rebuild takes place unless you move a Staal(s) to get some younger NHL assets and picks. My preference is to move Eric as he should be able to get some valuable parts back for the future, but I am now open as well to moving Jordan. I have always been a big Jordan fan but I have grown tired of waiting for what he is supposed to be. He will be in his 10th year and 27 years old at start of next season. Everyone is still waiting for that 25 goal, 65+ point defensive monster to emerge. When exactly will that happen?
If the big moves this off-season involve ditching Semin via a buyout, trading Skinner for some other questionable young talent, drafting a solid player at the 6th spot and extending Eric then we have all just been hoodwinked. That will amount to another year of shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic and prove this organization doesn't get the big picture. The team and fans deserve a fresh start at the core and a new face of the franchise.....or at least a plan to acquire/develop a new face of the franchise. I want something to be excited about.
ThinIce
Well-known member
The worst thing you can do in a business is hang on to an unproductive (or worse yet, a disengaged) employee in the hopes that he or she will turn things around. I think the Canes management knows this, but I'm assuming they just can't see taking the financial hit on the HOPE that Semin can be productive once again, so they get some value out of this deal. That's unrealistic IMO. If they can make the finances work, they should just pull the trigger and focus their attention on other areas to improve this team.
CarolinaPen
Active member
I may have missed something.....and please don't take this as defending Semin as I can't when he makes over $1M per goal, BUT I am not sure he is exactly a cancer on this team. I don't see anything in his body language, on ice effort, off-ice activities that indicate he is a problem in the locker room or distraction. Sure he has a horrid contract and did not produce squat this year but that isn't any different than a handful of other guys on the team. The team is full of under achievers. If you want to wipe out that mentality then get all of them off the roster. Just removing one guy doesn't fix the problem which is why I think we are hoping for a rebuild this summer.
ThinIce
Well-known member
I don't disagree with what you're saying and I wasn't inferring that Semin is a cancer on the team. To me, it's just that he ain't performing and the sooner we realize that and begin looking elsewhere the better off we'll be. True, he's got plenty of company, but he's certainly the low hanging fruit on this team.