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GDT - Leafs vs Canucks

Babs literally has a white board in his office with analytics he tracks every game. He has talked about the impact analytics and the sports science department has on his job, everything from lineup decisions, to schedule management. There is literally no evidence to support that the guy is closed minded to analytics. And no, "he plays two role players I don't like as a 3rd liner and bottom pair dman" isn't evidence of it.

The evidence is in his usage of the players in front of him. Komarov isn't used just as a 3rd liner. He regularly gets more ice time than guys who are much better players. And that is just 1 example - there are countless other ones that have been listed at nauseum.

So u will continue to use what I see on the ice as a benchmark for how this guy goes about his coaching as opposed to the furniture or white boards in the lockerroom. But hey he has a good track record (although outside of the international game his teams haven't really done much over the last decade).
 
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Komarov is 100% used as a 3rd liner. He is 8th on the Leafs in ES ice time, hence the third line. He is a utility/special teams player on this team. Speaking about ignoring the stats...
 
What is your philosophy on analytics?

I love it. What I love about it is I love information. What I’ve tried to do is surround myself with as many young, smarter people than me, more learned in that area than me, and they give you information. Sometimes, the information they give you, you don’t think it’s very good, but lots of times it’s great ideas. I hired a kid last year; I phoned out to the University of Michigan, I said I need a math guy, a real smart guy, just graduated, real good social skills, loves hockey. Can you find me that guy? Couple days later, it just so happened my kids knew who he was. We put him in our office next to our video coach, I said, “I don’t know what your job is, figure it out.” My point is pretty soon that guy was making a huge impact. He had found things that we could use, reoccurring situations in the game, that led to success. Staying on offense, or getting out of the defensive situation fast, it was a great little thing he gave me. The next thing you know he’s evaluating my pregame talks. I come in after and say, “what did I say?” He’d tell me. There’s a 24 year old kid making you better. There’s so many great ways to use information that’s great, you just have to make sure it makes sense; you can’t cloud your vision of what’s going on. That to me is what analytics is.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015...eafs-an-attractive-destination-and-much-more/
 
Average Time on Ice Per Game - 2017-2018

Leo Komarov - 16:44
Mitch Marner - 15:42
William Nylander - 16:35

Yeah, its all PK ice time. He plays less than both ES and on the PP. Like I said, he is a utility/special teams player on this team. The evidence supports that.
 
Regardless of any special teams stuff, that above stat should NEVER happen. Do 3rd line penalty killers on any other team ever play more than top line studs? Have fun finding any examples of this.
 
Regardless of any special teams stuff, that above stat should NEVER happen. Do 3rd line penalty killers on any other team ever play more than top line studs? Have fun finding any examples of this.

You can't say "regardless of any special teams stuff". Special teams stuff is like 40% of his ice time. He only gets third line minutes ES, and is one of their least used players on the PP (Only Martin and Moore have played less).

It is completely attributed to some of the most PK time in the league. So yes, you are correct in the sense that there aren't many forwards in the league playing 3 mins a game on the PK.
 
Sure I can. No other team uses their studs as little as we do. If Pittsburgh played a guy like Matt Cullen regularly more than Evgeny Malkin, do you think that would be justified?
 
The point is those other guys should be playing so much more on ES and on the PP that that stat should never ever happen.
 
If the team drew more penalties than it took - problem solved. The Leafs are bottom 5 in the league for special teams differential.. it's not all a Babcock conspiracy.
 
yeah i don't see how you can argue otherwise here. babs plays his elite talent less than anyone in the league.

the only defense that might fly is the health defense, but that's debatable.

the thing is, the fact that he refuses to use any of his elite scorers on the pk AND splits time evenly on the PP should be enough "rest" for them that they should at least play elite even strength minutes

and moreover the fact that we have 3 balanced lines should make it even easier for him to play them more without overplaying them - all he would have to do is play the 4th line even less, which would absolutely improve the team no matter what the argument is.
 
PK Ice Time/G (Total)
1. Gibbons - 3:10 (14:59)
2. Komarov - 2:59 (16:44)
3. Hyman - 2:51 (17:42)
4. Comeau - 2:45 (15:19)
5. Dorsett - 2:42 (15:16)
6. Beagle - 2:41 (12:44)
Wagner - 2:41 (15:42)
8. Hagelin - 2:38 (15:34)
9. Scissons - 2:35 (16:53)
14. Watson - 2:29 (12:12)


Only 13 players in the entire league average more than 2:30 on the PK.
 
yeah i don't see how you can argue otherwise here. babs plays his elite talent less than anyone in the league.

the only defense that might fly is the health defense, but that's debatable.

the thing is, the fact that he refuses to use any of his elite scorers on the pk AND splits time evenly on the PP should be enough "rest" for them that they should at least play elite even strength minutes

and moreover the fact that we have 3 balanced lines should make it even easier for him to play them more without overplaying them - all he would have to do is play the 4th line even less, which would absolutely improve the team no matter what the argument is.

Well yeah, that is two completely different points though. Babs plays his top guys less because he rolls 3 lines, which all have elite players on them. Not in favour of playing Komarov the most. Komarov gets third line minutes ES. You can't argue against that.

Also Matthews is 14th in the league in ES ice time among forwards. So he doesn't actually play less ES.
 
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and i think the fact that babs was surprised that komo played 24 minutes the other night tells us (and should tell him) about his implicit bias in what kind of player he leans on instinctively.
 
Well yeah, that is two completely different points though. Babs plays his top guys less because he rolls 3 lines, which all have elite players on them. Not in favour of playing Komarov the most. Komarov gets third line minutes ES. You can't argue against that.

Also Matthews is 14th in the league in ES ice time among forwards. So he doesn't actually play less ES.

ah come on. Marner gets 13 even strength minutes a game. including 4v4 and 3v3. it's stupid.

matthews is the only one that gets real ES minutes - but gets only half the PP time that the other top ES minute forwards gets.
 
The point is those other guys should be playing so much more on ES and on the PP that that stat should never ever happen.

They do play so much more ES and PP.

Leafs Stars Icetime/G (+/- vs. Komarov)

Matthews: ES (+3:24), PP (+1:23)
Nylander: ES (+1:33), PP (+1:17)
Marner: ES (+0:30), PP (+1:24)
Marleau: ES (+1:24), PP +1:20)
Kadri: ES (+1:17), PP (+1:15)
 
ah come on. Marner gets 13 even strength minutes a game. including 4v4 and 3v3. it's stupid.

matthews is the only one that gets real ES minutes - but gets only half the PP time that the other top ES minute forwards gets.

I don't know. Seems to be the whole league has pushed ES minutes down. Hyman, Nylander are both top 90 in the NHL. Marleau and Kadri are in the top 107. Technically that is in line with the rest of the league. 3 guys getting legit top line ES minutes, and two more at the top end of second line ES minutes. Sure Marner could have played more, but he didn't deserve it until the last month or so.

The criticism doesn't seem to match reality.

The difference is all special teams ice time.

And this is all likely due to analytics. As is playing the backup on back to backs, and the conservative maintenance day/sitting out stuff.
 
and the notion that we shouldn't complain about the team bugs me too. the team has stagnated this year, and arguably regressed (thank god for better shootout luck this year). this despite the fact that the kids aren't rookies anymore, and despite adding hainsey and marleau, and despite Andy being even better than last year.

and we have a coach who plays his elite talent less than any other coach in the league.
 
ES TOI/G (Rank in NHL)
1. Matthews - 16:13 (14th)
2. Hyman - 14:39 (68th)
3. Nylander - 14:22 (89th)
4. Marleau - 14:13 (103rd)
5. Kadri - 14:06 (107th)
6. Marner - 13:19 (160th)
7. Bozak - 12:50 (190th)
8. Komarov - 12:49 (191st)
10. JVR - 12:08 (237th)

1st line: 1-90
2nd line: 91-180
3rd line: 181:270

Seems like a pretty typical distribution. I have no issue with criticising the team. I have issue with criticizing the team in the face of the evidence.

The weird ice time distribution is all special teams. Splitting two PP units evenly, and only playing one PK unit. That is something no other coach does. ES usage is consistent with the rest of the league. Other than Marner should be playing more. But he has played 2nd line minutes.

And as for Babs ignoring analytics, the analytics likely have a direct result on that ice time distribution. How else do you explain JVR being a sheltered PP specialists.
 
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What is typical about zach hyman being 68th in the league in even strength ice time?
 
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