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Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!

Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I still take the Jets young group over the Leafs but damn.. I don't think there's a team even close to the top 2 at this point.
 
Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I mean, I disagree but I'm guessing your lower opinion of Marner probably makes a difference to that assessment.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Preston_Mizzi said:
I still take the Jets young group over the Leafs but damn.. I don't think there's a team even close to the top 2 at this point.
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I think enough highly touted Jets prospects have stalled that taking them over the Leafs group (which was generally outstanding last year....just about every important prospect we have had very good years) would be a big mistake.

Morrissey followed up an okay but not spectacular D+2 season in the CHL with an okay but not spectacular 20 yr old AHL rookie season. Nic Petan had an okay AHL rookie season but it's hard to consider him a better prospect than Brown or Kapanen. Dano stagnated in the AHL last year, Armia scored 16 points in his last 39 AHL since the trade from Buffalo and popped 10 points in 43 games with the Jets...hardly an encouraging season out of him. Kostalek had a shit AHL rookie season. Eric Comrie is only 20, but had a pedestrian season in the AHL with a .907 SV% as the 1A for the Moose. Roslovic had an okay NCAA rookie season for a NHL 1st rounder, but just okay. Harkins dropped 57 points in 69 games in the WHL in his post draft season (after 79 in 70 the year before), so he was tremendously disappointing. Brendan Lemieux is going to be an NHL'er, but his limited hockey sense keeps him from being any more of a prospect than a Soshnikov or Hyman is.

Hellebuyck was a stud, Connor was more of a stud, Ehlers had a solid NHL rookie season for a teenager and is going to be very, very good. Laine is going to be a stud. But after you get past the top 4, their entire system laid an egg this year. Not a chance I'd take what happened there over our group.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Here's the highlight reel of Marner's 4pt game vs Erie. Would be pretty amazing to see Matthews and Marner weave some magic at the NHL level.

[video=youtube;oQ3mmYzas7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ3mmYzas7U[/video]
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

MindzEye said:
This is ridiculous.



This is both ridiculous an inaccurate, but given that every time I provide examples of why you're wrong, you just ignore them and carry on with being wrong, I'm going to spare myself the time and energy necessary. Take my word for it though, this is really inaccurate.



Also really inaccurate. A lot of top prospects spend time in the AHL.



You said one thing, and then a few lines later completely contradicted it. Now you're spinning yourself silly trying to be condescending.
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OK, you say a lot of top prospects develop in the AHL. Who are those top prospects? I will expect to see a lot of names, not one or two and I also don't expect that AHL time by top prospects because of CBA issues to be counted. I'm expecting Marner to either play in the NHL next year or return to junior, the year after I definitely expect him to be in the NHL much like Max Domi's career to date. Nylander is definitely an exception unless TO really doesn't perceive him as a top prospect?
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

OK, you say a lot of top prospects develop in the AHL. Who are those top prospects?
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Just to take the arbitrary nature of what a "top prospect" is, I'll stick to players who are currently on Corey Pronman's top 50 (post WJHC) to show which top prospects are currently in the AHL and then I'll provide NHL examples.

Current:

Nylander
Fiala
Vrana
Rantanen
Kamanev
Petan
Kempe
Bjorkstrand
Kapanen
Ritchie
Honka
Barbashev
Milano
DeAngelo
Hudon
Kylington
McCarron
Brown
Bigras
Mantha
Lindell

If you're looking for current high end NHL'ers who played in the AHL

Getzlaf
Perry
Brent Burns
Bryan Little
Pavelski
Giroux
Kucherov
Filip Forsberg
MaxPac
Okposo
Krejci
Eriksson

That's 12 of the top 30 scorers from last season. That of course doesn't include a few Euro's who stayed in leagues equivalent (or worse) beyond their D+2 season (the year CHL players are eligible to play in the AHL usually) like Kuznetsov who had they come to North America would have been in the AHL.

It is not uncommon at all for high end prospects (call them blue chip, call them whatever you want) to develop in other pro leagues before


I'm expecting Marner to either play in the NHL next year or return to junior
Click to expand...

So you're expecting Marner to play in one of the two leagues he can play in next year? Brilliant stuff.


Nylander is definitely an exception unless TO really doesn't perceive him as a top prospect?
Click to expand...

Pants on head retarded.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

MindzEye said:
Just to take the arbitrary nature of what a "top prospect" is, I'll stick to players who are currently on Corey Pronman's top 50 (post WJHC) to show which top prospects are currently in the AHL and then I'll provide NHL examples.

Current:

Nylander
Fiala
Vrana
Rantanen
Kamanev
Petan
Kempe
Bjorkstrand
Kapanen
Ritchie
Honka
Barbashev
Milano
DeAngelo
Hudon
Kylington
McCarron
Brown
Bigras
Mantha
Lindell

If you're looking for current high end NHL'ers who played in the AHL

Getzlaf
Perry
Brent Burns
Bryan Little
Pavelski
Giroux
Kucherov
Filip Forsberg
MaxPac
Okposo
Krejci
Eriksson

That's 12 of the top 30 scorers from last season. That of course doesn't include a few Euro's who stayed in leagues equivalent (or worse) beyond their D+2 season (the year CHL players are eligible to play in the AHL usually) like Kuznetsov who had they come to North America would have been in the AHL.

It is not uncommon at all for high end prospects (call them blue chip, call them whatever you want) to develop in other pro leagues before




So you're expecting Marner to play in one of the two leagues he can play in next year? Brilliant stuff.




Pants on head retarded.
Click to expand...

Thats insulting to people who wear pants on their head.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

It's weird---the underlying point of a lot of hobarth's posts is basically that the AHL doesn't have any reason to exist as a developmental league.

Anyway, to step away from "pants-on-head" arguments and Auston Matthews-related discussions, one Leaf prospect actually played tonight. And while Martins Dzierkals didn't score any points, his Rouyn-Noranda Huskies won their playoff series against Moncton.

That means that our two QMJHL prospects (Timashov & Dzierkals) will be facing each other for the QMJHL championship, and one of them will be moving on to the Memorial Cup (hopefully to face Mitch Marner & the London Knights).
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

LeafGm said:
It's weird---the underlying point of a lot of hobarth's posts is basically that the AHL doesn't have any reason to exist as a developmental league.

Anyway, to step away from "pants-on-head" arguments and Auston Matthews-related discussions, one Leaf prospect actually played tonight. And while Martins Dzierkals didn't score any points, his Rouyn-Noranda Huskies won their playoff series against Moncton.

That means that our two QMJHL prospects (Timashov & Dzierkals) will be facing each other for the QMJHL championship, and one of them will be moving on to the Memorial Cup (hopefully to face Mitch Marner & the London Knights).
Click to expand...

English is your 2nd language?

Mindz you put up a lengthy list but players like Perry and Getzlaf who spent less than 20 games each in the AHL so I fail to see the relevance of their incarceration other than the Ducks who won the Cup had considerable depth and parked them in the AHL until room was created on the NHL roster.

Burns put in a year in the AHL because due to injury he sustained in his first NHL year he was still eligible to play in the AHL during a lockout season which would have been his 2nd NHL season.

What constitutes real development to you Mindz, any AHL time no matter how small, 1 game, 5 games, 15 games, I don't think this is realistic and I can't think of any team sending players down for such short periods to develop them. Conditioning stints, depth problems, cap issues and other nondevelopmental issues are also reasons quality prospects might have to endure the AHL.

And for the self appointed LeafGm, and I think we're all glad he isn't, the AHL basically represents a pool of reserves that is used to fill roster positions like 4th liners or as injury relief.:sleepey:
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

If You look at the NHL best players you will find that their most productive years statistically is their first 5 years, Ove, Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, Stamkos and probably others. Their productivity pretty well starts from the git go where they were 18, or 19 and their stats after those first 5 years show alarming decline. Why this happens I can't say for sure but I think it's a strong indication of why potentially star to above average players shouldn't be wasting what should be their prime productive years developing in the AHL.

I don't think any of us expect Nylander to be winning NHL scoring races but it is likely that 2 of his most productive years have been spent in the AHL. This is a parallel and not a direct comparison, I'm not saying Nylander is a franchise player in the development phase.

I think we all saw that Nylander spent the first 10 games, when he was finally brought up, figuring things out and then he was TO's top offensive player till the end of the year. Why did TO think he needed 75 games of AHL development before he was ready for the NHL, I can't figure that out? Even more perplexing, why was he made available for the WJC, a further step removed from the NHL is way beyond me?

Development or a waste of valuable years, a waste if you ask me.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Feyd said:
Here's the highlight reel of Marner's 4pt game vs Erie. Would be pretty amazing to see Matthews and Marner weave some magic at the NHL level.

[video=youtube;oQ3mmYzas7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ3mmYzas7U[/video]
Click to expand...

The crazy part is, it looked like Marner could have had at least two more points.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

MindzEye said:
Just to take the arbitrary nature of what a "top prospect" is, I'll stick to players who are currently on Corey Pronman's top 50 (post WJHC) to show which top prospects are currently in the AHL and then I'll provide NHL examples.

Current:

Nylander
Fiala
Vrana
Rantanen
Kamanev
Petan
Kempe
Bjorkstrand
Kapanen
Ritchie
Honka
Barbashev
Milano
DeAngelo
Hudon
Kylington
McCarron
Brown
Bigras
Mantha
Lindell

If you're looking for current high end NHL'ers who played in the AHL

Getzlaf
Perry
Brent Burns
Bryan Little
Pavelski
Giroux
Kucherov
Filip Forsberg
MaxPac
Okposo
Krejci
Eriksson

That's 12 of the top 30 scorers from last season. That of course doesn't include a few Euro's who stayed in leagues equivalent (or worse) beyond their D+2 season (the year CHL players are eligible to play in the AHL usually) like Kuznetsov who had they come to North America would have been in the AHL.

It is not uncommon at all for high end prospects (call them blue chip, call them whatever you want) to develop in other pro leagues before




So you're expecting Marner to play in one of the two leagues he can play in next year? Brilliant stuff.




Pants on head retarded.
Click to expand...
25ada5e81fa71a07d5dacd1dce3b5d00.jpg


Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

The study by Sauder School of Business Prof. James Brander found that the performance of forwards peaks between the ages of 27 and 28. Defencemen are best between 28 and 29, and the performance of goaltenders varies little by age.

The forthcoming study to be published in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports also reveals that players performed close to their peak levels for a number of years before and after their optimal peak: 24 to 32 for forwards and 24 to 34 for defencemen.

“While confirming conventional wisdom that players peak in their late 20s, the study proves it is wishful thinking for managers to expect a player in his mid-20s to continue improving significantly,” says Brander, an economist. “The vast majority of players are at 90 per cent of their best by age 24, although there are a few late bloomers.”
Click to expand...

http://news.ubc.ca/2014/05/15/nhl-study/

NHL forwards are at their peak statistically between 24 and 30, not 18 and 23.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

hobarth said:
English is your 2nd language?
Click to expand...

You're not good at being condescending.

Mindz you put up a lengthy list but players like Perry and Getzlaf who spent less than 20 games each in the AHL so I fail to see the relevance of their incarceration other than the Ducks who won the Cup had considerable depth and parked them in the AHL until room was created on the NHL roster.
Click to expand...

Their clubs felt that they needed time in the AHL, and sent them down to prove they can play at a high level against professionals. They did and were called up. First you said it didn't exist, now the 12 examples out of the NHL's top 30 scorers are all outliers and need explanations for why they don't dispute your claim?

What constitutes real development to you Mindz, any AHL time no matter how small, 1 game, 5 games, 15 games, I don't think this is realistic and I can't think of any team sending players down for such short periods to develop them. Conditioning stints, depth problems, cap issues and other nondevelopmental issues are also reasons quality prospects might have to endure the AHL.
Click to expand...

Players are left in the AHL for a number of reasons when they're probably otherwise ready for the NHL (as Nylander has been since last year). Conditioning, experience at a key position (G, C, or D typically) against professionals, ice time (is it better to get 20 minutes as a 1st liner for 30-40 games, or 8-12 on the 4th in the show....different clubs have different philosophies on that), size and strength issues, issues away from the puck (Kadri, when he was a top prospect was repeatedly sent down for this issue)

And for the self appointed LeafGm,
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Yeah, really not good at the whole condescending thing.

and I think we're all glad he isn't, the AHL basically represents a pool of reserves that is used to fill roster positions like 4th liners or as injury relief.:sleepey:
Click to expand...

This is what I was talking about earlier. I provide a list of guys that shows the AHL being used as a developmental league for some of the top scorers in the NHL (which is a generally accepted fact around the league), and you ignore it only to continue with this weird tangent.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

I remember Jason Spezza spent some time in the minors, seemed to work out okay,
 
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