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OT: The News Thread

Anti euro lega party has won 18 percent of the vote, and anti establishment 5 star movement has won 32 percent of the vote, making it possible for Italy to be run by euro sceptics.

Mainstream parties got hammered.

A good night.
 
Altair said:
Anti euro lega party has won 18 percent of the vote, and anti establishment 5 star movement has won 32 percent of the vote, making it possible for Italy to be run by euro sceptics.

Mainstream parties got hammered.

A good night.
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the fascists and their ilk winning and gaining ground = a good night, eh?
 
Wayward DP said:
the fascists and their ilk winning and gaining ground = a good night, eh?
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The 5 star is a populist movement, more anti Euro than they are fascist. They will be in the drivers seat of any alliance with the Northern League, the party closest to fascism.

What matters here is that the EU just got another rebuke. If they get enough of them they will either need to reform or die. I would prefer the former but the latter would work too.
 
Altair said:
The 5 star is a populist movement, more anti Euro than they are fascist. They will be in the drivers seat of any alliance with the Northern League, the party closest to fascism.

What matters here is that the EU just got another rebuke. If they get enough of them they will either need to reform or die. I would prefer the former but the latter would work too.
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I often find your views strange.

Like how much you dislike the EU.

You dislike it to the point of encouraging populist, anti-immigrant, borderline fascist political parties all over Europe. Kind of seems like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, or however the saying goes.

It is like you ignore all the other negative outcomes that can arise from these elections except for the one that you hope may eventually materialize. But you care about it so much that it trumps pretty much everything else.
 
Wayward DP said:
I often find your views strange.

Like how much you dislike the EU.

You dislike it to the point of encouraging populist, anti-immigrant, borderline fascist political parties all over Europe. Kind of seems like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, or however the saying goes.

It is like you ignore all the other negative outcomes that can arise from these elections except for the one that you hope may eventually materialize. But you care about it so much that it trumps pretty much everything else.
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Especially because it's not like the Trump/Brexit situations are really going swimmingly at the moment. I could understand it if Brexit was proceeding without issue, but it's still a gongshow from what I understand.
 
Wayward DP said:
I often find your views strange.

Like how much you dislike the EU.

You dislike it to the point of encouraging populist, anti-immigrant, borderline fascist political parties all over Europe. Kind of seems like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, or however the saying goes.

It is like you ignore all the other negative outcomes that can arise from these elections except for the one that you hope may eventually materialize. But you care about it so much that it trumps pretty much everything else.
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The best part is how outside of reality his views of the EU are, arguing things during our brexit discussions that literally didn't exist (but was being used as anti EU propaganda by the Leave campaign) as examples of ridiculous regulations and such.
 
UWHabs said:
Especially because it's not like the Trump/Brexit situations are really going swimmingly at the moment. I could understand it if Brexit was proceeding without issue, but it's still a gongshow from what I understand.
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Both are every bit the tire fire that people warned of.
 
Wayward DP said:
I often find your views strange.

Like how much you dislike the EU.

You dislike it to the point of encouraging populist, anti-immigrant, borderline fascist political parties all over Europe. Kind of seems like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, or however the saying goes.

It is like you ignore all the other negative outcomes that can arise from these elections except for the one that you hope may eventually materialize. But you care about it so much that it trumps pretty much everything else.
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The EU needs to reform itself. It's out of touch with the people it's meant to represent, slow to react to crisis, and they trample over sovereign governments and people all the time. There is a reason that Euro skepticism is on the rise, because it's a godawful mess and Europe was better off without it. Far better to have a European wide free trade zone than a messy dysfunctional governing body that only manages to annoy those who have to deal with it.

To date, the mainstream parties have not proposed anything to deal with it, and the only ones crying for reform or destruction of the EU have been the populist parties, some of which may or may not have ties to fascism. It should be the mainstream parties pushing for reform, seeing as they have the most to lose, but time and time again you see them toeing the EU party line, thus frustrated citizens only have the populist parties to turn to.

So yes, I do side with the populist parties and the voice of the frustrated Euro citizen who would rather the EU go die in a hole somewhere, while hoping it's not the fascist parties that people feel the need to turn to.

In france for example, I did not wish that the Le Pen lead Popular Front won, I was hoping for the anti EU communist France Insoumise party to win. Granted I wanted the Popular front to be beat En Marche, but again, they were not my first choice.

As for ignoring the negative outcomes that may come to pass if and when these populist anti establishment parties win, you're right. For the most part, I do not pay too much attention to it. For I do believe, and a increasing amount of Europeans are as well, whatever short term negative consequences come up from their success is nothing compared to the long term benefits to leaving the EU.
 
MindzEye said:
The best part is how outside of reality his views of the EU are, arguing things during our brexit discussions that literally didn't exist (but was being used as anti EU propaganda by the Leave campaign) as examples of ridiculous regulations and such.
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And the best part of that was you simply brushing off things that were happening, such as the migrant crisis and bungled response to it, the two tier Euro which is hammering the economies of some nations, and the lack of individual national sovereignty, all factors fueling the rise of the anti European parties.

You brush them aside, mainstream parties brush them aside, stupid plebs who don't understand how the world works, and the anti Euro parties are welcoming them, giving them a voice and those people you completely brush aside will be the driving force in making sure the EU reforms itself into a organization that its members will be happy to be in or into the dustbin of history.

And as I said before, I'll wait. It's happening, slowly but surely.
 
UWHabs said:
Yeah, it will be a while to figure out who won from the deal. But it's getting more and more clear that the loser is Britain.
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Brexit isn't even finalized yet.

Time will tell how they respond to their new situation. If it's no change, but ability to remove themselves from the dysfunction that is the EU, I consider that a win. If it a slight hit to them economically, but being able to conduct their own affairs, I consider that a wash. If the economy implodes or they are not able to fully extricate themselves from Europe then that's a clear loss.
 
Altair said:
Brexit is for now. But we wont know the winners for many years.
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We know which side of the discussion seems to know their ass from their elbow. The Brit side of the brexit talks has been pure keystone cops. Absolutely ****ing inept, without a clue on how to properly manage this break.
 
MindzEye said:
We know which side of the discussion seems to know their ass from their elbow. The Brit side of the brexit talks has been pure keystone cops. Absolutely ****ing inept, without a clue on how to properly manage this break.
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exactly

if the politicians there had stones, they would call off Brexit
 
MindzEye said:
We know which side of the discussion seems to know their ass from their elbow. The Brit side of the brexit talks has been pure keystone cops. Absolutely ****ing inept, without a clue on how to properly manage this break.
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The Brits are in the unfortunate position of being in a minority parliament with the balance of power held by some dumb dumbs in northern ireland.
 
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