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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

onetwothree said:
Its worse than KC with an in form Cueto.
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Cueto was "in form"? He got beat around in 2 of his 4 starts. I'd put Stroman up against that Cueto any day of the week.

the rest....Ventura, Duffy, Young, & Volquez is a really similar group in quality to what we're likely to send out there behind Stroman.


They had an elite pen as well, jays don't.
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This is true, but tbf, we're really only 2 power arms away from having a similar pen to what KC won with. Don't forget that our best reliever missed that series with an injury.


If Shapiro goes out and adds elite arms to the pen and makes a big move for a pitcher in-season, we have a chance.
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You haven't really explained this though. Don't get me wrong, I very much wish the ****ing accountants that run this team saw fit to toss 180M at a one season load up and dominate to a WS, but even just looking at this team as it is, there's absolutely hope. It's still an outstanding baseball team.

When you break it down, we have a borderline legendary lineup with a slightly above average rotation and a good (but not great) bullpen. That's a playoff team with a pretty good chance as it is, never mind needing the adds you're talking about.


But I'm not holding my breath that Shapiro is capable or willing to give up prospects to do it.
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This I agree with. I expect us to make a few cheap adds between now and spring training with no major in season additions. Shapiro does tend to love cheap power arms, so I expect him to dig in the reliever market for some guys who could surprise. I expect that we'll be winning or losing with this group more or less as it is.
 
LaCava says they are still persuing pitching help both in rotation and pen, but feels they are off to a good start and is thrilled they added pitching without moving bats or picks.

It's gross that there is such a premium on the 29th overall pick, that you would affect winning a world series

Late 1st rounders in baseball are overvalued, if you believe in your scouting you should be able to restock the farm with 2nds and 3rds
 
The pick is worth about 5m, but man, where we are as a team you should just say **** it, we want to win. Worry about picks next year. Heck, if we want to rebuild, we'll have 2 extras for JB and EE if we really want them.
 
Nonsense. They may be slightly "overvalued" but they still have a lot of value. What exactly is your point anyway, that they should forfeit their first round pick? First 2 names that came to mind:

Marcus Stroman: 22nd overall.
Aaron Sanchez: 34th overall.
 
When you are this close to winning the pick shouldn't take priority over the talent you sign

There are going to be far better SP sign for similar to Happ, but will be attached to picks. Jays should have went for one of them
 
axlsalinger said:
Nonsense. They may be slightly "overvalued" but they still have a lot of value. What exactly is your point anyway, that they should forfeit their first round pick? First 2 names that came to mind:

Marcus Stroman: 22nd overall.
Aaron Sanchez: 34th overall.
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Their value is about 5m in a trade. The player picked on average brings in 5m in excess value, so when they factor in dealing for a guy like Chapman, you factor in roughly that value for the pick that comes with it.

They do matter, but we should be trading a pick for a player that helps us now.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
When you are this close to winning the pick shouldn't take priority over the talent you sign

There are going to be far better SP sign for similar to Happ, but will be attached to picks. Jays should have went for one of them
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The pick "taking priority" over the talent is your opinion, not based on actual facts. For all we know this was a Lacava initiative that was approved by Shapiro and executed.

Obviously the pick should not take precedence over signing a Price/Greinke, but it seems to me that (right or wrong) it's the length and cost of the contract that they don't like, losing the pick is just another thing they'd prefer not to give up (just like any sane person).
 
axlsalinger said:
Nonsense. They may be slightly "overvalued" but they still have a lot of value. What exactly is your point anyway, that they should forfeit their first round pick? First 2 names that came to mind:

Marcus Stroman: 22nd overall.
Aaron Sanchez: 34th overall.
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damn, AA was great on draft day...

it's a crap shoot and you're almost as likely to find the next star in round 15 as you are in the first round.

the jays picked travis snider 14th overall in 2006. he's 10th overall in WAR amongst first picks from that year.

not saying that first rounders are valueless, but i wouldn't let the threat of losing a first round pick guide my decision on the free agent market. this isn't like hockey or football. the odds of landing a useful player in the first round aren't particularl good.
 
mbow30 said:
the blue jays just packed skydome 50,000 strong through game 6 of the alcs and, with a thin pitching staff at season's end, responded by adding jesse chavez and ja happ to bolster the rotation. jesse chavez and ja happ.

seriously.

jesse chavez... and ja happ.

the toronto blue jays are paying jay happ over $10mn per year in each year from the ages of 33-36.

and their other big add to the rotation is jesse chavez.

JESSE CHAVEZ AND JA HAPP.

**** this.

i was a flexpack/playoff ticket holder this past year. that won't be the case next year.

and i'm cancelling rogers.

**** this.

what an embarrassment
.
ja happ.

i swear to god, somebody needs to cut off the head of that ted rogers statue.

what an embarrassment.

3/36 for ja happ

remember one year ago when we thought he was overpaid at $6.7m and they traded him for a mediocre outfielder?

ja happ..
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Fantastic post.
 
This small market Rogers thinking is exactly why I went from liking the Jays and Cardinals about equally.... to caring about St. Louis way more.
 
**** Rogers, and **** Shapiro.

Only in goddamn Toronto could one of the best offences in the century be wasted like this.

JA ****ing Happ. Unbelievable.

Of all the free agent pitchers, we sign the guy who has already been a mediocre starter for us. Infuriating.

Like many others, I've been a damn loyal fan over the years, but I will see to it that Rogers doesn't get a ****ing penny of my money this season.
 
Why #BlueJays liked Happ: improved command, effective fastball, higher release point w/ #Pirates created more angle/deception, no pick reqd.

— Ben Nicholson-Smith (@bnicholsonsmith) November 28, 2015
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More Rogers sponsored spew.
 
I would enforce a higher release point for all our pitchers. Yields 30% improvement at very little cost.
 
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Dave Cameron of FanGraphs projected that Happ will receive a three year deal at $24 million, while the crowd sourced projection was for the same total length, but at $33 million. Teams might be reluctant to offer Happ three years, as he's already 33, and this past season was his best since 2009.
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CH1 said:
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Yeah, had we gone 3/30, or even 2/24, I think I would have liked the deal a bit better. Not only do we get the marginal pitcher, but it feels like we overpaid a bit for him.

Hopefully he can still be a 2+ WAR guy, and that his changes from last year are real. If he can go 2.5/2/1.5 WAR the next 3 years, then we have a good deal. If he's more like 2/1.5/1, then we're paying 8M per win, which is steep. And if he's worse than that, uggh.
 
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