MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Also, you dont have to do it now, but between now and the deadline, might as well move Osuna. He'll fetch a larger package than JD, and if you arent contending a cheap CL doesn't matter as much.
OT: The Toronto Blue Jays
- Thread starter PlayerToBeNamedLater
- Start date
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
You never did.
If there is one thing i trust these guys with its how to handle prospects, and if allowed, to get value out of teams for their talent.
I'm skeptical Rogers allows a sell job though
leafman101
Well-known member
Best thing for this organization in the long run is probably to let Shittwins keep trying to compete and failing so they are fired sooner. Not sure there is any evidence to support having any faith in their ability to rebuild the organization at this point. That just buys them time.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
We need Rogers to sell. We need them to sell to a sugar daddy. At this point I'd take Russian Oligarch or Arab money. Give me some of that Abramovich or Abu Dhabi Group money. Some ******* billionaire who only cares about winning....I wonder what Mark Cuban is up to?
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Sell everything now.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
This is why the MLB sucks for everyone other than a few fan bases.
zeke
Well-known member
if you aren't contending than no players matter.
UWHabs
Well-known member
Because Mark Cuban really wants to buy the Jays? Yeah, it'd be awesome to have someone come in and just want to throw money at the team, but the Jays brand isn't the Yankees, Red Sox, or Cubs. We're not getting a benevolent foreign owner for this team. If Rogers does actually sell, it's basically only Ed Rogers, Galen Weston, or David Thompson as the only Canadians with enough wealth to actually buy the team and who have any connection to the city enough that they might open the pocketbooks.
UWHabs
Well-known member
They were just hired a couple years ago, and basically hired to rebuild. They forced out Beeston to bring in Shapiro. The team will need to lose 100 games a year for the next 4 years before they think about firing Shapiro, and even then, as long as whoever owns the team is making money from them, Shapiro will stay around until he gets hired by someone else or retires.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I could see a new owner being off put by the Shatkins mantra and track record. I agree that Rogers will give them a ton of rope for a long time as long as the business isn't losing money or hurting their brand. But a new owner might want to be splashy and Shatkins aren't the splashy types.
CaptainBolduke
Active member
2016 was their fault.
UWHabs
Well-known member
Yes, that is the one thing a new owner could do. Unless if the new owner is Ed Rogers, the owner very well might want to take a much more hands-on approach to the team like Jeter+co in Miami, and in that case you can expect them to clean house at the upper levels. Of course, as we see in Miami right now, that's not necessarily a good thing.
LeafGm
Well-known member
If you're the new owner of the Blue Jays, the quickest, easiest way to ingratiate yourself to the fanbase would be shit-canning Shatkins right off the hop. They're already widely unpopular, and by the time a new owner takes over, I doubt they'll have a sterling track record of success to defend themselves with.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Because I'm in my usual, **** Shatkins kind of a mood regarding this club, I wanted to revisit one of Shapiro's bits of idiocy from his first year with the club...
Remember when he shredded AA and his staff for trading away all those prospects to get Tulo, Price, Revere, Lowe, & Hawkins to stock up for that playoff run?
Here's what I posted at the time:
And here's the update:
Jose Reyes - Just played out the last year of that monster contract, was 2.0 WAR this year so not a bad bounce back for him. Has been a good (and injury prone) pro since we traded him for the most part....aside from the spousal abuse thing of course that I know we're all glad he wasn't here for.
Dan Norris - Almost 25 now, and still an intriguing arm but hasn't put it together yet. Has shown the ability to get swings and misses at the MLB level but has a bad habit of giving up excellent contact. Looking a lot like a middle of the rotation arm that frustrates you by looking unhittable from time to time. He's an MLB'er but at nearly 25 yrs old nobody is really sure how good a MLB'er he's going to be
Jeff Hoffman - The 2nd of the high end prospects we gave up in that series of moves. Also almost 25 now, also a middle to back of the rotation guy who looks electric at times, aggravating at others, also has a bad habit of giving up excellent contact against him. Still has a bucket of talent, but like Hoffman time is running out on whether he'll ever figure it out
Jimmy Cordero - A 26 yr old who put up a ~6 FIP this year in AA. Enough said.
Nick Wells - A ~5 FIP as a 21 yr old in A ball, with weak peripherals. Maybe advances as a lefty reliever, but he's no MLB calibre starter at any point in his career
Rob Rasmussen - Retired in 2016 at 27
Jacob Brentz - 23 yr old power arm relief prospect. Electric in A+ this year, struggled with control in AA. Could end up in the back end of someone's bullpen someday.
Matt Boyd - Has turned into a not terrible #4-5 starting pitcher. Has squeezed every bit of upside possible out of his arm imo.
Jairo Labourt - Converted to a reliever after the trade, was really good in AA but a lot less good in AAA and a cup of MLB coffee where a 93 mph fastball isn't scaring anyone. Could end up in the middle of a bullpen somewhere and be functional.
Miguel Castro - Remember when he was a thing? The closer of the future? Still not quite 23 yrs old so there's time for him to figure it out I guess, but he had a shit year with the Orioles and his peripherals have slid hard. Struck out just over 5 per 9 innings this year. Still has the 96 mph heater though, so he could figure it out at some point. Back of the rotation arm at his absolute best.
Jesus Tinoco - 5+ FIP as a 22 yr old in A+...has a really heavy fastball if memory serves, so getting moved to the pen could help him turn into something. Doesn't look like a starting pitcher at all though.
So a few years on from the moves and what we really gave up looks to be 2 #4 starters, a #5 starter, a bad MLB reliever and a couple of failed starting prospects who might be okay relievers in the future.
This is what Shapiro shredded AA and his staff over trading away.
Remember when he shredded AA and his staff for trading away all those prospects to get Tulo, Price, Revere, Lowe, & Hawkins to stock up for that playoff run?
Here's what I posted at the time:
And here's the update:
Jose Reyes - Just played out the last year of that monster contract, was 2.0 WAR this year so not a bad bounce back for him. Has been a good (and injury prone) pro since we traded him for the most part....aside from the spousal abuse thing of course that I know we're all glad he wasn't here for.
Dan Norris - Almost 25 now, and still an intriguing arm but hasn't put it together yet. Has shown the ability to get swings and misses at the MLB level but has a bad habit of giving up excellent contact. Looking a lot like a middle of the rotation arm that frustrates you by looking unhittable from time to time. He's an MLB'er but at nearly 25 yrs old nobody is really sure how good a MLB'er he's going to be
Jeff Hoffman - The 2nd of the high end prospects we gave up in that series of moves. Also almost 25 now, also a middle to back of the rotation guy who looks electric at times, aggravating at others, also has a bad habit of giving up excellent contact against him. Still has a bucket of talent, but like Hoffman time is running out on whether he'll ever figure it out
Jimmy Cordero - A 26 yr old who put up a ~6 FIP this year in AA. Enough said.
Nick Wells - A ~5 FIP as a 21 yr old in A ball, with weak peripherals. Maybe advances as a lefty reliever, but he's no MLB calibre starter at any point in his career
Rob Rasmussen - Retired in 2016 at 27
Jacob Brentz - 23 yr old power arm relief prospect. Electric in A+ this year, struggled with control in AA. Could end up in the back end of someone's bullpen someday.
Matt Boyd - Has turned into a not terrible #4-5 starting pitcher. Has squeezed every bit of upside possible out of his arm imo.
Jairo Labourt - Converted to a reliever after the trade, was really good in AA but a lot less good in AAA and a cup of MLB coffee where a 93 mph fastball isn't scaring anyone. Could end up in the middle of a bullpen somewhere and be functional.
Miguel Castro - Remember when he was a thing? The closer of the future? Still not quite 23 yrs old so there's time for him to figure it out I guess, but he had a shit year with the Orioles and his peripherals have slid hard. Struck out just over 5 per 9 innings this year. Still has the 96 mph heater though, so he could figure it out at some point. Back of the rotation arm at his absolute best.
Jesus Tinoco - 5+ FIP as a 22 yr old in A+...has a really heavy fastball if memory serves, so getting moved to the pen could help him turn into something. Doesn't look like a starting pitcher at all though.
So a few years on from the moves and what we really gave up looks to be 2 #4 starters, a #5 starter, a bad MLB reliever and a couple of failed starting prospects who might be okay relievers in the future.
This is what Shapiro shredded AA and his staff over trading away.
UWHabs
Well-known member
Well, you can't always base prospects dealt based on what they become, since prospects bust all the time. But yes, even at the time, it's not like we gave up elite guys in the deals. I'm sure there's still some lingering memories of giving up Syndergaard though, hence why he got a little ripped for the deals. But even if Hoffman turned into the next Syndergaard, it was probably worth it to enjoy a couple playoff runs.
LeafGm
Well-known member
On the back of those trades, they made it to the ALCS and lost a hard-fought series that easily could have gone their way, with an entirely beatable team waiting for them in the World series. Then even though new management did nothing to move the ball forward that off-season, the team went on another ALCS run.
For that opportunity, I'd even trade Syndergaard again.
For that opportunity, I'd even trade Syndergaard again.
Hoss
Well-known member
My knowledge of player value In mlb I'd limited...but why does it seem that the Yankees can make these trades and have teams pay the salary and whatever for players that I don't hear as being "top prospects". Are teams being forced to give the Yankees better deals than the rest of the teams? It just seems like collusion to me. Especially since jeter is in charge of Florida
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
The Yankees swing their wallet around. The Marlins owe the Yankees 30 million if Stanton doesn't opt out in 2020, the deal is the remainder of the 13 yr, 325 million dollar deal Stanton signed with the Marlins, so it's a fair bit of financial risk for the Yankees. When you're willing to swing your wallet around, you pay way less player cost in deals.
JackBurton
Well-known member
I'm haunted by that 2015 season. the world series was ours for the taking. the Mets were the easiest win in a world series in years. Huge missed opportunity. But yes, they really did nothing to get better during that offseason which is very concerning.
Maybe if we get new ownership they won't want Shatkins.